Dating Indonesian Girls
Apr 4th, 2006, in Society, by PatungDating Indonesian women may not be for everyone.
Indonesian women, particularly on the island of Java, are exceptionally beautiful. They tend towards the very feminine side, with lovely skin, are not too tall, and have knock-out smiles. There’s plenty of plus on that side of things.
If wer’e to be honest we have to recognise that many men are interested in a woman who will take care of him, do the housework without complaint, and take care of other matters similarly without much bother. Your average Indonesian girl often fits the bill in this respect, certainly more than your average western woman, the less said about them the better.
On the other hand going out with Indonesian women in a romantic way can have many mysterious pitfalls.
Some women here are clearly only interested in money. Some men are unbothered by this. Others of the female variety, can, once we get to know them very well, come across as practically insane, hysterically emotional, scheming, over-possessive, inclined to, usually fake, attempts at self-harm in order to get their way. As I said, not for the faint-hearted.
There are a few Indonesia dating websites although the area is not nearly as developed as that in nearby Phillipines or Thailand. To begin your online journey on the Indonesian dating scene our very own “Meet” section has many a lady eager for company.
4,898 Comments on “Dating Indonesian Girls”
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ET says:
@ ariana
If someone converted to muslim for any reasons hurting you i dont think here is a right forum to throw you anger.
Have you been appointed as moderator?
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@ Farah
I did pay for him too, but sometimes he did pay for me. But still i don’t like if he said things like this “its time for you to pay, i pay for your lunch” (nodong bo!), hahah he doesn’t have to mention that i think !
I thought you were an emancipated woman. But i guess this doesn’t count when the bills are presented.
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riniss says:
Adam,goodluck!
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Swagman says:
Emancipation too has its price.
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Have you been appointed as moderator?
Just a simple case of – “Oops! I don’t know what I’m talking about, so quick, change the subject!”
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shawty says:
@ Farah
“its time for you to pay, i pay for your lunch” (nodong bo!)
OMG I will definetly dump this kind of guy if it comes to date (sorry too fly to pay mine haha) but if it just between friends/colleagues hmm I would definetly pay mine…
@Swagman
Emancipation too has its price.
And still they asked their so called Asian gf/wife to have traditional quality like clean the house, good cooking and look after the kids when it comes to marriage
and also share bills…errr
I dont think their cute candy eyes and other attributes worth to compensate things
my money only for me..thats emancipation 😉 -
bs says:
@shawty
my money only for me
That’s egoism, not emancipation. Don’t you help the people near you if they are in need?
@farah
“its time for you to pay, i pay for your lunch” (nodong bo!)
I actually went out with some Indonesian girls (just friends) to eat and they insisted to pay. For them, this was to prove they are friends and not golddiggers.
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And still they asked their so called Asian gf/wife to have traditional quality like clean the house, good cooking and look after the kids when it comes to marriage
and also share bills…errr
I dont think their cute candy eyes and other attributes worth to compensate things
my money only for me..thats emancipationUnfortunately this is precisely what most experienced bules have come to expect of Indo girls. ie Bule to pay the bills (including date costs) and her money is her money. Congratulations … you fit the mould! 🙂
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timdog says:
ET – we did this little dance before on this thread when you were banging the same drum. As we know the steps, why not do it again…
Last time when I pondered whether you would have the same problem if a bule was, for instance, pressured to “convert” to Hinduism to marry a Balinese person you performed some interesting logical gymnastics, concluding – on the grounds of precisely no evidence whatsoever – that any bule who did convert to Balinese Hinduism could not possibly have come under any cultural pressure to do so, and therefore the issue was null and void.Funnily enough I was in Bali last week and at a slightly odd little gathering happened to meet a foreign man married to a Balinese woman. He was, he told me, a “Hindu”. To have a proper Balinese marriage it is, it seems, necessary to “convert”.
Could they not have got married in his country to avoid it (something which a certain number of bule-Indonesian couples in the “Islam” sphere do, don’t forget), I asked. He, it turns out, wasn’t really bothered about avoiding it; he wanted to “keep her folks sweet, and the ceremony was a hoot anyway”…Do you, ET, have a fundamental problem with this? (Clue: I think not, if you’re totally honest).
Do you have a problem with the similar fact that in many, many places (including, I am almost certain, some parts of Indonesia), no respectable Catholic parents would let you marry their child unless you – if not already one – converted to Catholicism? (Clue: again, I doubt it, or certainly not enough to huff and puff on internet forums).For you this has got nothing whatsoever to do with point of principle, and everything to do with a general hostility towards Islam, in which “Islam” (as if it really were an identifiable entity) can do no right whatsoever.
But this issue – the bule “converts of convenience” – is really not a very useful stick with which to beat Islam. I’d give it up. You’ll easily find other issues more fit for the purpose if you must (though I’d suggest that you’d be a happier individual if you got over it).As I said last time we went through these motions, I would personally be +very+ reluctant to make any kind of “conversion” for any purpose (because I consider my atheism not as a “disbelief”, but as a “belief” – I’m a “practicing atheist” if you like. Your average bule looking to marry an Indonesian is probably atheist/agnostic merely by default, and therefore unlikely to be troubled by “conversion”). But that’s purely personal and I don’t have any issue with other people doing it. People – of all sorts of religions – have been making such conversions of convenience for the sake of marriage, love, social harmony (and probably all sorts of less admirable causes too) since time immemorial…
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Adam, well, good luck. But I do have to wonder… one of the many issues raised by this weird behemoth of a thread that leave me a little baffled, is the question of why anyone in their right mind would feel the desire to embark on a relationship with someone met on an internet chatroom…
Call me old-fashioned, but it just seems, well, weird. The idea of starting a romantic journey with someone I hadn’t met through the traditional avenues – work, school, through friends, generally socially – makes no sense whatsoever, and suggests that the usual criteria for, dare I say it, normal people (mutual attraction, shared interests, general compatibility, the “click” etc) are something which some people are either not interested in or feel unable to work with…I really, really don’t get it. It just seems so completely unnatural, and, I have to say, suggests critical self-esteem issues or distasteful desires or gold-digging (either sexually, socially or financially) tendencies…
Now, Adam, from your posts on here you definitely seem a cut significantly above many of the bules “dating Indonesian girls” (what with the language efforts and the seemingly genuine interest in the place). For that reason I beseech you to approach things differently.
I still have slight problems with anyone who decides they want “an Indonesian woman” or a “bule man” (or vice versa) before ever having met the person they actually end up with, but I’ll hold back on that one. Instead, why don’t you avoid the strange business of the internet, and once you’re able to, shift to Indonesia. Perhaps take a job there. Once you’re there you’ll make friends, you’ll hang out with people, you’ll meet some women. There will be significantly less pressure; but maybe you’ll start dating one of them; maybe it will work out… You’ll still have the potentially troublesome “bule-Indonesian” dynamic to deal with, but at least it will be a bit more, I don’t know, natural… -
Hey Adam
I’ve always found that in-depth research including an extensive process of elimination is always a lot of fun 🙂
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Call me old-fashioned, but it just seems, well, weird. The idea of starting a romantic journey with someone I hadn’t met through the traditional avenues – work, school, through friends, generally socially – makes no sense whatsoever, and suggests that the usual criteria for, dare I say it, normal people (mutual attraction, shared interests, general compatibility, the “click” etc) are something which some people are either not interested in or feel unable to work with…
OK … you’re old-fashioned
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Farah says:
@ ET & BS
I thought you were an emancipated woman. But i guess this doesn’t count when the bills are presented.
Oh yes i pay my own bills. I just feel thats bit disturbing. I pay his bills and i never ask him in return.
I gave him massage, never give him the bills, so does car fuel during he is here, or should i charge him for that? do we really have to count everything here people?I could pay the lunch dinner bills, its just something you should ask. Its impolite i think. Especially to your gf/bf (perhitungan banget sih??)
To someone i just met, its an absolutely big NO for me to ask them pay anything. I don’t want to owe someone i don’t really know some money. If you just a friend, hehe.. my friend owe me, i owe my friend, its just things that you and your friend did, but we never ask-or i never ask them if they want to pay, if i got more/bring more money, ill pay the bills, if its a share, ill give them my part, how much i should pay.
If its a date, i will ask him, if he mind i pay ? if he insist to pay, go a head—-but after doing so, please never mention it (like i told you: “hey i pay your dinner, its your turn to pay…”)>>>>> i hate that.
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timdog
Why do you always come up with this Hindu thing whenever I show my aversion for the fact that in the case of marriage muslims demand conversion from the other party, male or female, bule or not? Is it because you know that I live in Bali and have taken an interest in what is going on here? Well let me tell you that in order to become a genuine Balinese Hindu it takes a lot more than to utter a few shahada words and eventually get some meat chopped off. First one has to learn to understand and speak Balinese, become familiar with the many rituals and ceremonies and be prepared to become a banjar-member with its myriad social and ceremonial obligations. There has been an interesting article some years ago in a Balinese monthly periodical in bahasa called Sarad in which the entire proces was explained. Unfortunately I can’t give you more details as I don’t have it here with me but I suppose that with your anthropological skills there will be no problem to find out more about it. But I doubt that the average bule Joe who was so lucky to snatch a Balinese koncreng will go to all the trouble just to get the paperwork done.
Funnily enough I was in Bali last week and at a slightly odd little gathering happened to meet a foreign man married to a Balinese woman. He was, he told me, a “Hindu”. To have a proper Balinese marriage it is, it seems, necessary to “convert”.
I’m not denying that in order to comply with Indonesian law there are ‘certain’ ways for mixed Hindu-non Hindu couples to get their legal documents stamped accordingly but this certainly involves no official religious ceremony or forced conversion.
To have a proper Balinese marriage it is, it seems, necessary to “convert”.
It is not necessary to convert to have a marriage according to Balinese rites. Mick Jagger was married to Jerry Hall in Ubud in 1990 with a Balinese ceremony and as far as I know nobody was forced to convert. This marriage however has no legal implications.
Do you, ET, have a fundamental problem with this? (Clue: I think not, if you’re totally honest).
Me, ET, has a fundamental problem with anything that smells of submission.
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a genuine Balinese Hindu it takes a lot more than to utter a few shahada words and eventually get some meat chopped off. First one has to learn to understand and speak Balinese, become familiar with the many rituals and ceremonies and be prepared to become a banjar-member with its myriad social and ceremonial obligations
Not as easy as saying syahadah or not as easy as not meaningful as the priest said “now you may kiss the bride” thing. I think balinese wedding ceremony took one day too. Sign paper and done. But what you just tell me is language and ceremony… its part of culture.
Have you been into a batak wedding? when you married them there are party to give you family name, you should learn about the family tree, very difficult way. You should learn the language too,not must but its not easy.
Whats the difference then?
I bet the wedding only said do you take this girl as your wife, and that guy for your husband kind of question.
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ET, you’re doing that gymnastic backflipping thing to avoid addressing the question.
The guy I met said he did it “to keep her folks sweet”. This would be exactly the attitude of most of the “convenience conversion” bules who masuk Islam to marry Indonesian women.
So, straight answer, in this specific case – do you have a problem with it?Why use Hinduism as an example – well, in this specific case it was straight off the back of that nugget of information I gleaned in that conversation in Bali last week, but in the first instance because I find the contrast between the historic Orientalist western discourses on Islam and Hinduism fascinating. And the heritage of these centuries-old discourses does feed directly – whether or not the participants are aware of it or not – into things like rants about “evil Islam” on internet forums…
Also, it’s a fairly obvious example in the Indonesian context, and I knew of at least one bule-Indonesian marriage (the woman married to a Balinese, mentioned before) where the “convert” ain’t exactly down the temple every morning and the “conversion” was quite obviously everything to do with “smoothing the way” and nothing to do with religious sentiment (hey, there’s another specific example I’d quite like a specific answer on – got a problem with that one, ET?)…muslims demand conversion from the other party
As I said last time, ET, not all of them. I know several Muslims – male and female – in mixed marriages with Catholics here in Java. I also know at least one bule-Muslim marriage where no conversion was “demanded”.
And on the other hand, as mentioned before, plenty of Catholics worldwide would certainly demand a conversion from a prospective spouse. Again, do you have a problem with this?
It’s not unknown for Hindu girls in India to be murdered by their own brothers and fathers for falling in love with Sikh, Christian or Muslim boys (and the other way round too, be sure). Do you have a problem with this, ET?Me, ET, has a fundamental problem with anything that smells of submission.
But only really if the “submission” is to Islam, right? Let’s be honest here…
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@bs
That’s egoism, not emancipation. Don’t you help the people near you if they are in need?
emancipation is my money for me or for UNLUCKY people that need to be help but not to share small bills with someone that have salary 5 – 7 times than me! for God’s sake !!
Im too fly to pay 1st date bills..
SO I ASK YOU NOW GUYS if it comes to 1st date should I ask
“will u pay the first date if we going on a date” or ?suprise suprise suprise
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timdog
I think it is you who are doing the gymnastic backflipping to prove your case which has become quite clear during many of your posts from the last couple of years. Although it strikes me that you don’t mention Pakistan so oft these days. What could be the reason for this reluctance, timdog?
But never mind, here are the answers to your questions:The guy I met said he did it “to keep her folks sweet”. This would be exactly the attitude of most of the “convenience conversion” bules who masuk Islam to marry Indonesian women.
So, straight answer, in this specific case – do you have a problem with it?No, it’s his problem, or theirs, not mine. But my opinion is that these ‘convenience converters’ are either wussies or ignorant about what they are stepping in to. Although I’m willing to admit that not everybody has the time or the intention to go as deep into these religious matters as I did.
Also, it’s a fairly obvious example in the Indonesian context, and I knew of at least one bule-Indonesian marriage (the woman married to a Balinese, mentioned before) where the “convert” ain’t exactly down the temple every morning and the “conversion” was quite obviously everything to do with “smoothing the way” and nothing to do with religious sentiment (hey, there’s another specific example I’d quite like a specific answer on – got a problem with that one, ET?)…
No problem, see my first answer above, except for the restrictions on converting to Balinese hinduism which I explained earlier. No Balinese will ever consider such a ‘convert’ as a hindu unless he joins the typically Balinese lifestyle and rituals. Unlike some others, Balinese hindus don’t go trumpeting about their numbers of converts nor cajole them into appearing on youtube to further more proselytizing. Their strength doesn’t lie in numbers.
And on the other hand, as mentioned before, plenty of Catholics worldwide would certainly demand a conversion from a prospective spouse. Again, do you have a problem with this?
Yes, I do, for the same reason as when it is demanded by muslims. No one has the right to demand a conversion. And in the case of marriage I would also call it emotional blackmail. What’s more, if this kind of blackmail is allowed or condoned for marriages, then why not in the case of job applications etc.?
It’s not unknown for Hindu girls in India to be murdered by their own brothers and fathers for falling in love with Sikh, Christian or Muslim boys (and the other way round too, be sure). Do you have a problem with this, ET?
Yes, for the same reason as I have a problem with Pakistani muslims who seem to practise the same horrors. Birds of a feather.
As I said last time, ET, not all of them. I know several Muslims – male and female – in mixed marriages with Catholics here in Java. I also know at least one bule-Muslim marriage where no conversion was “demanded”.
Sure, there will be exceptions, but look no further than this thread a couple of days ago when some ‘lady’ considered her relationship with a bule a “waste of time” unless he submitted to the required utterings and mutilations.
Me, ET, has a fundamental problem with anything that smells of submission.
But only really if the “submission” is to Islam, right? Let’s be honest here…
Not because of submission to islam, but because islam itself is all about submission. Actually the meaning of the word islam is submission, a standard psychological method practised for brainwashing. You only have to read comments like those from this Muhammadelijah in the Bule Mualaf or Islam Revert thread to see the damage it brings about.
But what am I ranting here. Just open a newspaper, watch the telly or roam the internet for jihad websites and if, as a practising atheist as you call yourself, you still try to defend the indefensible then I have serious doubts about your intellectual integrity.
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emancipation is my money for me or for UNLUCKY people that need to be help but not to share small bills with someone that have salary 5 – 7 times than me! for God’s sake !!
That’s exactly the same reasoning here in the market where they think a bule should pay 5-7 times the price locals have to pay because he is considered to earn 5-7 times more.
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ET:
Me:Catholics worldwide would certainly demand a conversion from a prospective spouse. Again, do you have a problem with this?
You:
Yes, I do
Hey! Well that’s something at least! But I still cannot for the life of me understand why someone who “to keep her folks sweet” – without, perhaps, it ever having got to the point of finding out whether or not it would actually be “demanded” (and like I said, it clearly wouldn’t always be) – converts, on paper only and without anyone chopping anything off, to Islam is a contemptible example of despicable submission to an evil entity, while someone who “to keep her folks sweet” does exactly the same thing with Hinduism earns little more than disinterest (and certainly no sizzling rage). Weird.
Pakistani muslims who seem to practise the same horrors. Birds of a feather.
Wasn’t any need to say that, ET – I’d said it already, if you read carefully. “Honour killings” as everyone knows, are a cross-religion phenomenon in the Northwest Subcontinent, and therefore principally a “cultural” rather than a “religious” thing (though hilariously, I recall Hindu hyper-nationalist Shloka claiming that the Sikhs and Hindus must have learnt such things from Muslims. Brilliant. They learnt those other foreign evils, love and homosexuality from the Muslims too apparently… but I digress…)
Why don’t I go on about Pakistan so much these days? Because, if you hadn’t noticed, I’ve largely given up banging heads with howling Islamophobes. It’s boring, and they are as intransigent fundamentalists as the most wild-eyed of beardies. They have their version of “Islam” – based in the hardest of scriptural readings and most aggressive of practices – and are totally unwilling to concede the possibility of any alternative whatsoever. Death to those who would disagree!
Boring people to argue with; I’d rather talk about travel writing, Indonesian airlines and whether Kuta or Ubud is the wankier place…
I was actually back in Pakistan for the first time in several years a couple of months back. I could certainly tell you some interesting things about the place, but it would be as pointless as offering a glass of arak and a plate of babi guling to a Saudi Arabian gentleman of the bearded persuasion. That’s why.On “defending the indefensible”, from an atheistic position, if you want to nail me into a corner I’ll ultimately tell you that Islam is retarded and offensive – but no more so than Hinduism (which is equally capable of prompting unspeakable horrors, believe it), Buddhism, Christianity or Marapu-Animism.
But by considering atheism a “belief” rather than a “disbelief” I am able to acknowledge that it is no different – and no more honourable or despicable – than all those other “beliefs”. I don’t have any problem with anyone who has any religion different from my own, and find sneering, religiously arrogant atheist -fundamentalists as obnoxious as religious supremacists of all kinds…Most religions involve an aspect of submission – if you choose to practice them in a particular way (and, again, no religion has anything approaching a uniformity of practice, or for that matter even belief): submission to your miserable caste position, submission to a religiously sanctioned concept of “suffering”, submission to the offensive concept of “sin”, submission to general authority (ooo! Heading Marx-wards. I think I shall stop). Or simply submission to the attractive comfort of the idea that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
Boring.Finally, on “opening a newspaper or turning on the telly”, I could suggest doing just that, and then carefully blacking out all the references to religious affiliation – and why not also to race and nationality while you’re at it? – and then discovering all the awful things that people do to other people. But I don’t suppose you’d be interested…
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brian A says:
@JONA
Happy new year mate, I went to Bali and not Jakarta. On my next adventure to Indonesia (most likely Bali) If there is the slightest chance! you are there at the same time, then hopefully we catch up for beers, and more beers 🙂 but it unlikely, I wouldnt say its exactly finished with my indo girl, fair to say its a bit of hard work for both of us ATM.Ahh Mr Redford, still being a pain in the arse for you mate. great to hear things are going well for you in December and your birds especially, all the best with your in January, keep posting.
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@shawty
Who should pay on the first date? For me that’s the same as for any subsequent date: the person who invited the other. It’s not really polite to ask someone on a date and then expect them to pay is it? So it depends who’s asking who, both women and men can do that.
You’re not willing to pay if the other half has a salary much higher than you? It’s the principle that counts here. Like ET says, if this is how you think, and other Indonesians with you, then it’s no wonder the economy breaks down. If someone has a higher salary that should be a return on an earlier investment (education, experience, working harder). If his or her reward is paying more for the same services and goods, then the incentive to invest is lost.
I wish you a boyfriend with a lower salary than you (5-7 times), so you can pay all his bills.@ET
About forced conversion, I don’t like that too. The marriage laws in Indonesia however state that interfaith marriages are not allowed (and yes, this does not match international treaties Indonesia has signed). Given this law, you can either stick to your principle and not marry, or get some “official conversion letter” and marry.
When it concerns an international couple, legal marriage is the best way to settle all judicial matters (visa, kids, pensions) in both countries, so sticking to your principles can be very difficult. The family can try to press you, but you are free to completely ignore that. Your problem is with the state, not the religious families.Legal requirements are that you present a letter from a religious institute. How you get this, is completely up to you. You can go to a masjid, candi, geraja or whatever and ask for it.
Some might want you to “integrate” and learn languages and holy books, other might ask for money and maybe your lucky and they just ask you to stand in a garbage can and sing “I’m a happy flower”. The point is you can shop around and get any letter you want. If you really what to convert you can, but nobody is forcing you.People usually just obey the social contract because it makes life easier. I don’t like to be “forced” to go to the end of a queue at the butcher, but if I don’t, buying meat will be a whole different experience.
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@ T dog
Your average bule looking to marry an Indonesian is probably atheist/agnostic merely by default, and therefore unlikely to be troubled by “conversion”). But that’s purely personal and I don’t have any issue with other people doing it.
not everyone takes religion seriously, muslim beliefs and catholic beliefs are very similar yes? so why would it be a problem to convert, simply to marry and be happy with your women, which is more important?
and also people on here always raving on about ‘how would your parents react’ or ‘how would her parent react to this…well not all care about what their parents belive in, I dont think anyone’s decisions should be much influenced by their parents beliefs and rules.
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maybe your lucky and they just ask you to stand in a garbage can and sing “I’m a happy flower”.
That’s what I did! It was nothing to do with religious conversion though!
Almost completely unrelated anecdote: when my kids became naturalised citizens, well when they got their passports, the immigration guy said to the wifey: “if he (me) ever cheats on you or hits you you tell us and we’ll shift him”.
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@bs
I wish you a boyfriend with a lower salary than you (5-7 times), so you can pay all his bills.
awww thats really mean wish ! anyway somehow usually in any country/culture OLDER (experience) people get more salary. Oh I hate become young lol
@et
The beer price for bule and local the same 😉anyhow I just found the fact that cases like these are rare and apply only for some cultures
I did cross check with my gf from previous uni and they said that their man (from same country) usually bla bla bla bla 🙂 -
@shawty
I did not intend to be mean. I just wanted you to imagine how it would be like if you were at the other end of the table. If you want to find a rich boy, go ahead, I hope you’ll be happy.
Just don’t expect him to pay for everything just because he has a higher salary. In a good relationship both make an effort. The amount is not important, the act of spending your resources on your partner is.By the way, in Western countries it’s quite normal for youngsters with a good education/track record to earn way more than older people. Experience isn’t worth anything if you’re doing it wrong for 30 years. I guess you guys have to get rid of the Soeharto generation first before you can go down that road in Indonesia…
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timdog
Finally, on “opening a newspaper or turning on the telly”, I could suggest doing just that, and then carefully blacking out all the references to religious affiliation – and why not also to race and nationality while you’re at it? – and then discovering all the awful things that people do to other people. But I don’t suppose you’d be interested…
Blacking out all the references to religious affiliation? Difficult to achieve when you hear them shout “Allahu Akbar” before they blow themselves up into paradise.
I recall Hindu hyper-nationalist Shloka claiming that the Sikhs and Hindus must have learnt such things from Muslims.
Shloka was a very intelligent girl and being a Bangladeshi refugee she spoke from personal experience and not to prove herself by defending some fancy theories de rigueur in left-liberal academic circles about cultural and ideological relativism.
I miss Shloka. Shloka where are you?@ bs
Given this law, you can either stick to your principle and not marry, or get some “official conversion letter” and marry.
I agree that from a practical and individual viewpoint the way to proceed is to simply sign and get it over with. But what I’m denouncing here is the pretentiously demanding and conditional ‘dowry’ mentality of families and entourage.
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Oigal says:
you should find the medical benefits from what you so called it physical mutilation
Really sad in this day and age that so called educated people with access to real information would still cling to this ignorant claptrap about medical benefits of circumcision. Whilst there remains the very rare occasion that the operation (note the word operation, not ritualized hacking) is required every reputable medical organisation recommends against ANY unnecessary operation let alone one rooted in our barbaric past. Which is why we don’t routinely rip kid’s tonsils out any more.
It is amazing to people do not take the time to stop and read the suffering and death this little nod to the dark ages still causes today. Personally it is pleasing to see that in many countries it is treated as gross child abuse as it should be in any civilized society.
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I miss Shloka. Shloka where are you?
She made a re-appearance as Fawzia the Iranian ex Muslim. Patrick actually guessed Fawzia=Shloka and she exitted.
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She made a re-appearance as Fawzia the Iranian ex Muslim.
Then besides intelligence she has amazing acting talents as well. Although I always hardly believed that she was only 16 or 17.
She should make a carreer as a playwright.
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Duh here we go the talk about that mutilation again.
@ ariana
I am agree with you, and i think for some girls that i know, western girls (from usa and canada) they prefer something that not looks like hotdog stuck with two buns.. or i said looks like cubrai (melambayyy hahaha).
@ adam
good luck ! (hehe tell us the delatails…)
@ shawty
somehow, i found my ex bf is quite generous with small gifts (one side he don’t like me to spend money). But these days when i date with a bule, yepp i found they bit stingy. I did pay for him too, but sometimes he did pay for me. But still i don’t like if he said things like this “its time for you to pay, i pay for your lunch” (nodong bo!), hahah he doesn’t have to mention that i think !
But i guess it depends on their personality. Some generous, some very stingy and calculate what ever he spent with us !!