Islam Revert
Dec 20th, 2008, in News, by PatungA teenage Australian girl from sunny Queensland finds Islam in Lampung and becomes a revert.
Kim, or Kimi, otherwise known as “KimDonesia” (Kim + Indonesia), a 17 year old Australian from Queensland, the Sunshine state, once lived in Lampung, southern Sumatra, for six months, accompanying her step-father who worked for a sugar company, Gula Putih Mataram (GPM).
While in Lampung she says she studied Islam, and was moved by the passionate devotion of the people there to the religion, and finally fell in love with it, particularly the sound of the call to prayer.
After moving back to Australia she converted to the faith, or reverted as she would have it. Here she explains, in rather good Indonesian, how she came to live in Indonesia in 2007:
In this video she explains her religious journey – from Wiccan moon worshipping, to nothing in particular, to Islam – she even has the pronunciation right, Islaaam, – and how living in Lampung and talking to the people there was one of the keys to her decision to throw her lot in with Allah.
Youtube Mission
Kimdonesia has in the short time since her conversion this year produced dozens of Islamic dakwah (missionary) videos on Youtube, and has a bit of a following among some Indonesians, at http://www.youtube.com/user/KimDonesia.
549 Comments on “Islam Revert”
-
@ Dony, Cuki, all,
Thanks for your support. I’ll soon be taking a sabbatical & handing over my duties to one of my students – the second seksiest poet, ukulele player, dangdut singer and pencak silat master in Indonesia.
@ All – Oigal’s throwing a little tiff today:
The psuedo Indonesians like yourself contribute nothing to Indonesia you are if I may paraphrase another just another no hoper, arse licking bule feeding on the scraps from its crocodile masters.
I guess its holiday season for Oigal, when he loads up on Bir Bintang, and tries to grope unwilling golf caddies for a few days (though he’s usually so drunk he doesn’t realise they’re boys). Then he’ll spout off about human rights on a golf course built on uncompensated adat land.
Oigal’s real agenda is to try to foist blame onto Indonesians and away from the oil and mining companies that employ his ilk, along with the damage they do to the environment and rakyat and local communities. To Oigal, it’s Christmas: a few extra coins slammed down on the bar’ll do for community development.
Oigal, few tips:
– Short is sweet.
– Less adjectives, more nouns & verbs.
– Try to stay sober when you’re writing.
– And no, the caddies don’t like you for you. -
Oh, and by the way, Oigal.
It was just a question, a humble little question:
What would Indonesian public attitudes be towards judgements of Indonesia’s public standards from an aetheist perspective ?
But one that you can’t answer, I see. -
Anthony Tolomeo says:
Indonesia isn’t poor, violent, and chaotic because of white people or religion. It’s because it is full of Indonesians. Overall they are a people of less than average intelligence. The Germans, Italians, and Japanese were bombed back into the stone age and lost millions of citizens just 60 years ago, but now they are some of the richest and most productive nations in the world. Nature is the enemy of Indonesia, lets be honest, some people are better than others.
-
Ah, Tony, Tony.
Sadly, you are an complete ignoramus. Please read Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond for a good, if contested overview of what makes some nations rich and some poor, before you clackety-clack on the keboard again.
It’s true, physical capital is important.
But it’s human capital, as in education and know how that was the main equation in Germany, Italy and Japan’s revival after World War Two. Indonesia’s geography means it’s still playing catch-up.
Each had a long history of various coherent political units before the war. Italy and Germany were part of the European Enlightenment and Renaissance; Japan had 300 years of relative autarky to stitch together a political unit.
Education, including literacy and habits of citizenship and political obedience were embedded in all of those countries in various degrees. And human capital is not just having a lot of lawyers (like the Philippines or India). It means a literate and healthy work force.
Indonesia’s geography was never favorable to the internal exchange of knowledge and ideas; it’s only had a nation-state since 1945. We had big agrarian trading empires like Mojopahit (which will rise again), and Mataram.
But my superior intellect and command of the English language, Tony, shows we are catching up fast. Now go home and have some of Mama’s Puta Nesca.
-
muhammadelijah says:
We won’t commit such atrocities because Allaah will call us to account on Yaumul Qiyaamah after Maut(Death).But Godless materialists don’t feel remorse while mass-slaughtering millions of Muslims by bombs.
A moment ago you wouldn’t commit yourself to supporting these lunatics. Only God would judge them, you said.
I said that freedom-fighters know that they would be called to account by the same God on Whose command they are sacrificing their lives to help their brothers and sisters for every single misconduct of war, but on the other hand Godless materialists feel no remorse for their actions. They can kill children for oil without any fear of accountibility for their actions in Aakhirah/Hereafter.
Soorah An-Nisaa[Women]
Aayah 74-75
Hence, let them fight in God’s cause – all who are willing to barter the life of this world for the life to come: for unto him who fights in God’s cause, whether he be slain or be victorious, We shall in time grant a mighty reward.
And how could you refuse to fight in the cause of God and of the utterly helpless men and women and children who are crying, “O our Sustainer! Lead us forth [to freedom] out of this land whose people are oppressors, and raise for us, out of Thy grace, a protector, and raise for us, out of Thy grace, one who will bring us succour!”
http://honorablequran.com/4.htmWhen US warplanes attacked the remote Afghan farming village of Chowkar-Karez, 93 civilians were killed. A Pentagon official said, “the people there are dead because we wanted them dead.” Their crime? They sympathized with the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
What about the young children murdered by these zealots? Are they materialistic invaders? They are certainly non-combatants.
What is the ratio of deaths caused by the criminal thugs with bombs on their brothers and sisters” compared to all others. Funny how that never gets a mention expect for really ugh comments like..
Your attitude is precisely depicted in the following words of Norman Solomon. Perhaps the linguistic handicap of Muslims is costing them the most.
When terrorists attack, they’re terrorizing. When we attack, we’re retaliating. When they respond to our retaliation with further attacks, they’re terrorizing again. When we respond with further attacks, we’re retaliating again.
When people decry civilian deaths caused by the U.S. government, they’re aiding propaganda efforts. In sharp contrast, when civilian deaths are caused by bombers who hate America, the perpetrators are evil and those deaths are tragedies.
http://www.fair.org/media-beat/980827.html
US-led forces killed 37% of civilian victims.
Anti-occupation forces/insurgents killed 9% of civilian victims.
Air strikes caused most (64%) of the explosives deaths.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/reference/press-releases/12/Alan Greenspan rightly said: “I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,”
Even the Munafiq traitor stooge Karzai is said to have wept over the casualties of Afghan children. But his solution is:if the oppressor is mighty the oppressed must stop resisting. But faith in God would prevail over faith in weaponry.
Allah ko paamardiye Mu’min pay Bharosa
Iblees ko Europe ki masheenon kaa sahaara
-Muhammad Iqbal -
Nay says:
The Indonesians have a terrible track record when it comes to killing and abusing people in their OWN country.
Come on, that’s not fair. Practically every civilization ends up abusing it’s own people, enslaving them, or scapegoating other people. Some civilizations hide it better.
The unfortunate fact of the matter is, every civilization has its slaves. Slaves built the pyramids. Slaves build the Parthenon. Slaves built America. Look to any advanced civilization and you will find slaves. Perhaps they are not called slaves today… but they are typically overworked, underpaid, and feel that they have nowhere else to turn.
Colonization made lots of slaves out of the occupied country. Today, we have immigration policies which entice people to come and work in developed countries, in a kind of “reverse-colonization”.
In any case, the elites in any society will behave as they have always done, regardless of politics and religious system they are faced with…, and that is to get more wealth, more power, and revel in debauchery.
-
Burung Koel says:
But all such enemies of God in the West are educated women who claim the mantle of feminism to promote their “rights”. The only right they have in Islamic law is execution.
@ muhammadelijah
You also mentioned that your mother is a zoologist. I presume, then, that she has received an education based on Western scientific ideas. No doubt it would be impossible for her to study zoology without using books and other materials that would depict animals. Isn’t the portrayal of human or animal figures proscribed in Islam?
As your mother has committed an atrocity in the sight of Allah (at least according to your own version of Islam), I expect you to do the right thing. Do you think hanging or stoning would be the most suitable punishment for your Mom?
Now do you see where this sort of thinking leads?
-
Ah, Tony, Tony.
Sadly, you are an complete ignoramus. Please read Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond for a good, if contested overview of what makes some nations rich and some poor, before you clackety-clack on the keboard again.
It’s true, physical capital is important.
But it’s human capital, as in education and know how that was the main equation in Germany, Italy and Japan’s revival after World War Two. Indonesia’s geography means it’s still playing catch-up.
Each had a long history of various coherent political units before the war. Italy and Germany were part of the European Enlightenment and Renaissance; Japan had 300 years of relative autarky to stitch together a political unit.
Education, including literacy and habits of citizenship and political obedience were embedded in all of those countries in various degrees. And human capital is not just having a lot of lawyers (like the Philippines or India). It means a literate and healthy work force.
Indonesia’s geography was never favorable to the internal exchange of knowledge and ideas; it’s only had a nation-state since 1945. We had big agrarian trading empires like Mojopahit (which will rise again), and Mataram.
But my superior intellect and command of the English language, Tony, shows we are catching up fast. Now go home and have some of Mama’s Puta Nesca.
I own and read the book. Your argument has no weight. China and Japan were closed and feudal socities for a long time, but were leap years ahead of Indonesia pre WW2. Indonesia becoming a country in 1945 means nothing either, Italy wasn’t unified until 1870 I think, but each of its “city states” produced much more then Indonesia.
-
Iggy, (Ignoramus).
There’s a difference between owning a book, or even reading it and understanding it. Trying telling Jared Diamond “Indonesians are less intelligent than average,” or whatever it is u said.
On my points: China and Japan developed functional, coherent nation-states (China was a bit more heterogenous, with competing states, its true). On Japan’s autarky: that’s the point, there was a chance to develop a functional, coherent political unit.
As for Italy, it became a Westphalian nation-state in 1870, but was HQ to the Roman Empire (heard of that??), not to mention dozens of Renaissance-nation states. It’s geographical proximity to the post-Middle ages explosion of knowledge gave it front row seats to the hottest science show since the ancient Greeks and Romans.
Indonesia was a long way away. It took double-entry bookkeeping just for the Europeans to get here in serious numbers.
Anyway, point is:
Homo Sapiens-Sapiens is the same species. Or as P.J. O’Rourke said, “if we were dogs, we’d be the same breed.”
Now run home to your moustachioed Mama.
-
Achmad, did you ever think of why these nations became what they are? The inhabitants is the answer. Intelligent and civilized people make good places to live. Tribal and primitive people make miserable places to live. I’d rather live on a deserted island founded by Japanese or Italians over a deserted Island found by Indonesians or Somalians. We are not all created equal, there are better and lesser men, and it’s evident to anyone with a passport and enough currency to travel. People and civlizations didn’t fall out of the sky, they are a product of thousands of years of evolution.
-
bs says:
@anthony
I suggest you pick up a copy of the book “White man’s burden”, I think it will bring you a new perspective on how the West grew rich through practices it now forbids for developing countries.
Another book you need to read is Dawkins “The selfish gene”, since you do not seem to grasp the idea of evolution. Evolution does not account for major differences between the people of Africa, Europe or Asia. If you’re theory were true , how would you explain the thousand of perfectly civilised and intelligent Asians and African born and raised in Western countries?
-
ps – actually, Iggy, better still – see the TV series Rome or the opening scenes of Gladiator (2000). See how the Gauls (Rome) and Germans (Gladiator) where doing back then.
-
Oigal says:
Ah Assmad,
Very true to form, the most evil, cowardly insidious element of Indonesian society and so ably used by you and your masters ilk, is the provocateur in all its vile forms.
People and outsiders who arrive and hide in the dark shadows and play on people’s fears and prejudices string up discontent and spreading lies and half truths to achieve the agenda of others. Invariably creating mayhem and bloodshed they revel in their pretence of nationalism or religious purity as they work their threadworm like influence on who have been marginalized by the greed of your sponsors.It was just a question, a humble little question:
What would Indonesian public attitudes be towards judgements of Indonesia’s public standards from an aetheist perspective ?That is not a question and you know it. It is same morally devoid scam the provovateurs use throughout Indonesia to an attempt to get other people to rally into a mob and attack without thought. Far too cowardly to mount their own attack or argue their own case in an open forum they mutter darkly in the crowd fading away once mob mentality takes over.
Replace your atheist (do correct your own spelling before correcting others) with Chinese or Christian (or Muslim in places such as Kupang) and we see the oh so familiar and tragic word of you and your sponsors favourite mode of play.
Sadly for you most on IM have already tired of your shallow depth of knowledge about this country and others and your sad little insults. It must be frustrating that the people here has stubbornly refused to rise to your bait and do your bidding? Bit tougher than some poor villager out in the sticks with few other points of reference from your message of trash hey?
I guess its holiday season for Oigal, when he loads up on Bir Bintang, and tries to grope unwilling golf caddies for a few days (though he’s usually so drunk he doesn’t realise they’re boys). Then he’ll spout off about human rights on a golf course built on uncompensated adat land.
No actually I am still working, have you ever had to do that or been thepaid licker your whole life? Why don’t you stop pretending you represent the rakyat, it is at the very least patronizing to real rakyat and embarrassing to the real Indonesians on this forum. They don’t need someone like you to speak for them.
Oigal’s real agenda is to try to foist blame onto Indonesians and away from the oil and mining companies that employ his ilk,
Of course, pretty standard stuff from the Provovateurs (Bule, drunk, plunderer or Christian or jew or…yawn), you are aware of course that only Indonesians can own resources rights aren’t you and the largest resource holder in Indonesia has hocked the whole lot to China in dodgy loans. Of course, we are well aware of where your money comes from so not really expecting much on that.
After some of the most recent comments from some, it puzzles me that you would consider slandering me with your inane rubbish and whimper like a beaten dog in other cases. I suppose I should be impressed.
In short, grow up and fight your own battles or trot off back to your sponsor. The time Indonesia has had its fill of pretentious, self important, callous idiots like you over the years
-
Ah Assmad,
Very true to form, the most evil, cowardly insidious element of Indonesian society and so ably used by you and your masters ilk, is the provocateur in all its vile forms.
People and outsiders who arrive and hide in the dark shadows and play on people’s fears and prejudices string up discontent and spreading lies and half truths to achieve the agenda of others. Invariably creating mayhem and bloodshed they revel in their pretence of nationalism or religious purity as they work their threadworm like influence on who have been marginalized by the greed of your sponsors.It was just a question, a humble little question:
What would Indonesian public attitudes be towards judgements of Indonesia’s public standards from an aetheist perspective ?That is not a question and you know it. It is same morally devoid scam the provovateurs use throughout Indonesia to an attempt to get other people to rally into a mob and attack without thought. Far too cowardly to mount their own attack or argue their own case in an open forum they mutter darkly in the crowd fading away once mob mentality takes over.
Replace your atheist (do correct your own spelling before correcting others) with Chinese or Christian (or Muslim in places such as Kupang) and we see the oh so familiar and tragic word of you and your sponsors favourite mode of play.
Sadly for you most on IM have already tired of your shallow depth of knowledge about this country and others and your sad little insults. It must be frustrating that the people here has stubbornly refused to rise to your bait and do your bidding? Bit tougher than some poor villager out in the sticks with few other points of reference from your message of trash hey?
I guess its holiday season for Oigal, when he loads up on Bir Bintang, and tries to grope unwilling golf caddies for a few days (though he’s usually so drunk he doesn’t realise they’re boys). Then he’ll spout off about human rights on a golf course built on uncompensated adat land.
No actually I am still working, have you ever had to do that or been thepaid licker your whole life? Why don’t you stop pretending you represent the rakyat, it is at the very least patronizing to real rakyat and embarrassing to the real Indonesians on this forum. They don’t need someone like you to speak for them.
Oigal’s real agenda is to try to foist blame onto Indonesians and away from the oil and mining companies that employ his ilk,
Of course, pretty standard stuff from the Provovateurs (Bule, drunk, plunderer or Christian or jew or…yawn), you are aware of course that only Indonesians can own resources rights aren’t you and the largest resource holder in Indonesia has hocked the whole lot to China in dodgy loans. Of course, we are well aware of where your money comes from so not really expecting much on that.
After some of the most recent comments from some, it puzzles me that you would consider slandering me with your inane rubbish and whimper like a beaten dog in other cases. I suppose I should be impressed.
In short, grow up and fight your own battles or trot off back to your sponsor. Indonesia has had its fill of pretentious, self important, callous idiots like you over the years
-
Indonesia isn’t poor, violent, and chaotic because of white people or religion. It’s because it is full of Indonesians. Overall they are a people of less than average intelligence
Ugh.. Now if we had a desert Island where we could put ‘M” with his attitude and authors of such comments as above then it would be a great Christmas.
Gauls (Rome)????
-
deta says:
Indonesia isn’t poor, violent, and chaotic because of white people or religion. It’s because it is full of Indonesians. Overall they are a people of less than average intelligence.
@ Anthony
What Bs said is true. The differences in intelligence level among people are not only due to genetic but also the cultural and economic factors. And not to forget that IQ is not the only thing that matters to reach the welfare, other types of intelligence (emotional, spiritual, multiple, you name it) of the people have a big contribution in various degrees, besides the geographic factor and natural resources bestowed on the countries, of course. -
Interesting, Oigal.
I’m still keen to know what you think most Indonesians would think of an atheist (thanks!) judging their moral and public standards.
And I suppose you think the rakyat need you, an atheist bule, to speak for them ?
Like I said, slug back the bintangs, pat that tasty little rump, complain about how corporate social responsibility and community development money is a shake-down. All the while, you’re partying on stolen land, bulldozed for a rich man’s game.
Prabowo sends his regards. There are a few trash collectors jobs going at the Gerindra headquarters you might be qualified for.
-
Isn’t the portrayal of human or animal figures proscribed in Islam?
Islam is the most practical spirituality and the most compatible to the modern world. You can offer Salah on an aeroplane, or space shuttle or moon or even Mars without needing any Church or Synagogue.
Islamic Jurisprudence or Fiqh is one of the those fascinating disciplines which integrate spiritual and temporal to the extent that it spritualises the entire human existence- from economics to politics, from birth to death, from marriage to the funerals, from sciences to arts. And that’s why Islam produced a spiritual civilisation which other religions failed to realise. In Fiqh, there is a term called Idtirar which is an exceptional circumstance that would make Halal(Legal in God’s Law) what is usually Haram(Illegal in God’s Law). (Fuqaha ) Islamic Jurists who develop civil law on spiritual precepts compare two competing Ahkam(Injunctions) on the basis of Nusoos(Canonical Proofs). The Ahkam are divided in the following levels of precedence.
Fard/Wajib (Compulsory, like Salah five times a day even in the state of war as long as you aren’t unconscious like in the state of a coma or Majnoon/mentally incapable)
Mustahabb(Recommended, like Tahajjud, or Salah at late night)
Makrooh(Discouraged, like smoking)
Haram(Illegal, like Qatl/murder or Zina/Sex outside legal limited plural marriage/ Ta’addudil Azwaj))Now, if there is a conflict between Fard/Wajib and Makrooh, the Fard/Wajib would take precedence.
If there is a conflict between Haram and Mustahabb, the Haram would take precedence. If there is a conflict between Fard/Wajib and Haram, on case to case basis there would be a reasoned level of precedence assigned by Fuqaha or the men who have specialised in the ‘Ilm(knowledge) of Nusoos. It is Haram to consume Lahmul Khinzeer (Pork) but in the condition a person is dying with Joo'( hunger) and no other food is availible then Haram would become Halal in Idtirar and the injunction to save life would take precedence.
Now, Apostle of God said,”Talabul ‘Ilmi(Seeking for Knowledge) Fareedatun(Compulsory) ‘ala kulli Muslimin(Muslim man) wa Muslimah(Muslim woman)”
Seeking for knowldge is compulsory for every Muslim man and woman.
Now, this is not some moral obligation like we should seek knowledge, rather a religious mandate (Fard/Wajib) for every Muslim individually. Now if a Haram competes with a Fard/Wajib then Fard/Wajib would take precedence.
Making images is Haram in Islam and that explains the great calligraphical tradition of Muslim civilisation evident in Muslim architecture, but when it comes to zoology,medicine, there are Muslim medical treatises some as late as 16th century that describe images of animals illustrated by rigorous details in Arabic language.Do you think hanging or stoning would be the most suitable punishment for your Mom?
By the way, God’s law states that making un-necessary images of living things like as a wallpaper is Haram there is no punishment(Hadd) in this Dunya(world) for this sin rather in Aakhirah(the next world). Rajm(lapidation) is a Hadd for Zina(sex outside Nikah) after Nikah(marriage).
The following website desribes one such documented image with Arabic illustration.The version uploaded on the internet is originally scanned from the book Islamic Science: An Illustrated Study written by Seyyed Hossein Nasr, an Iranian professor of Islamic Studies at George Washington University. The original version is found in University library in Istanbul, Turkey.
http://www.arabianessence.com/articoli/anatomy/manuscript.html
-
“Women who are educated should be executed, except when we say they shouldn’t be.”
So much for the immutability of “God’s Law”. As far as you have described it, “we” are a bunch of old men deciding who lives and who dies based on their current personal prejudices and wildly differing interpretations of medieval superstitions.
Great.
-
“Women who are educated should be executed, except when we say they shouldn’t be.”
Muslim men and women must be educated in their respective spheres of life, because if we are not getting education we are committing a grievous sin of not fulfilling a Fard/Wajib. While even those Muslim men who break God’s Law that demands execution should be executed because its a grievous sin not to implement God’s Law.
based on their current personal prejudices and wildly differing interpretations of medieval superstitions.
This once again makes the same old mistake of judging Islam on the basis of Jewish and Christian perceptions of religion that have developed over centuries in different historical circumstances from the historical circumstances through which Islam underwent in its journey of 1430 years.
For example, there is not a single Muslim out of 1.4 billion Muslims who doesn’t accord verbal Divine authority to The Holy Quran, something radically different from Yahood and Nasara who are sceptical about their religious texts. Similarly,although there are those who question the authority of Hadith texts which record sayings and practices of the Rasoolullah/Apostle of God(God’s Blessings and Peace be upon Him), the majority of Muslims-Sunnis and Shias accord authority to their respective Hadith texts. Now this alone is a situation remarkably different from its Semitic counterparts. Hence, no Muslim is going to seriously entertain the suggestion of “mediaeval superstitions” rather he would expect the same as a historically invariable accusation which the men sent by God encountered from Aadam(a.s.) through Moosa(a.s.) and ‘Eesa(a.s.) uptil Muhammad(s.a.a.w.s.).
Soorah al-Ahqaf
Aayah 17
But [there is many a one] who says to his parents [whenever they try to imbue him with faith in God]: “Fie upon both of you! Do you promise me that I shall be brought forth [from the dead], although [so many] generations have passed away before me?” And [while] they both pray for God’s help [and say], “Alas for thee! For, behold, God’s promise always comes true!” – he but answers, “All this is nothing but fables of ancient times!”
http://honorablequran.com/46.htm
Soorah al-Qalam
Aayah 15
That, whenever Our messages are conveyed to him, such a one says, “Fables of ancient times”?
http://honorablequran.com/68.htmAs far as prejudices are concerned, the way Fiqh develops through rigorous democratic argumentation it leaves no room for prejudices but solid reasons and potent arguments. Democratic because there is a concept of democratic consensus called Ijma’ that global Muslim community throughout history would never unanimously approve a sin, or would agree on an error.So, if all Muslims agree on an issue, it must be right. For example, Imam Abu Haneefah(r.a.) and Imam Malik(r.a.) are said to have passed a whole night reasoning about a Fiqh issue at Masjid an-Nabawi (The Prophet’s Mosque).
a bunch of old men
Ironically, from Muadh (r.a.a) and Muhammad bin Qasim(r.a.) and Muhammad bin Ismaeel(r.a.) through Yahya bin Sharaf(r.a.) and Ibn Taimiyah (r.a.) and even during recent times, it has been the youth of Muslim civilisation that Islam inspired to serve as its spiritual vangaurd.
Muadh (r.a.a) in his teenage is participating in Badr-the first battle of Islam, while Muhammad bin Qasim(r.a.) in his teenage is leading the military expedition towards Hind(India), Muhammad bin Ismaeel(r.a.) considered the greatest authority on Hadith among Ahlus Sunnah-the Sunni Muslim majority, has memorised huge compilations of Hadith even before teenage, while Yahya bin Sharaf(r.a.) is leaving his home at 19 to settle in Damishq(Damascus) to dedicate his life to spiritual learning (Ta’allum), teaching(Tadrees) and writing(Ta’leef), and when he returns to his hometown after 26 years, he leaves the world the same year, while Ibn Taimiyah (r.a.) is teaching Quran at Jami’(central) Masjid at 19. You see the pattern throughout the history of Islam that it persistently have been the Muslim youth who has constituted the vanguard of Islam.
And I think, this is why Islam is spiritually alive to this day , while others have failed wholesale, despite the greatest onslaught of Godlessness in human history at this moment of human history. No power in the world can ever wrench the devout Muslim youth away from Islam even at the cost of their life. The spring of Islam would continue to stay fresh forever because in its freshness are hidden numerous heroic stories of the sacrifices of numerous Shabaab( youth ) waiting to be discovered.
-
@ Anthony
What Bs said is true. The differences in intelligence level among people are not only due to genetic but also the cultural and economic factors. And not to forget that IQ is not the only thing that matters to reach the welfare, other types of intelligence (emotional, spiritual, multiple, you name it) of the people have a big contribution in various degrees, besides the geographic factor and natural resources bestowed on the countries, of course.This is simply not true. Blacks in the US have been here for a hundreds of years, often much longer then people who came from Europe. The blacks still do bad in school, and commit loads of crimes. Don’t use the slavery excuse either, not all blacks were slaves, and not all people who came from Europe were affluent, most lived in situations that were just as bad, if not worse then slavery. Dirt poor Chinese went to Indonesia and were able to surpass the native Indonesians in one generation living in the same enviorment.
@anthony
I suggest you pick up a copy of the book “White man’s burden”, I think it will bring you a new perspective on how the West grew rich through practices it now forbids for developing countries.
Another book you need to read is Dawkins “The selfish gene”, since you do not seem to grasp the idea of evolution. Evolution does not account for major differences between the people of Africa, Europe or Asia. If you’re theory were true , how would you explain the thousand of perfectly civilised and intelligent Asians and African born and raised in Western countries?
The book would have a point if “whites/Europeans” were unique in invading other countries, but this couldn’t be further from the truth. Just about every people who had the ability to grab land did. You got the Arabs, Mongols, Ottomans, Persians, Chinese, Japanese, etc. The whites/Europeans made life better in the places they took over, that is why there has been a population explosion in the third world, and people are living longer. This is a result of the white man/Europeans technology. There are individual Africans and Asians that are smart in the West, but as a whole they can’t produce a civilization that is good for the majority.
-
Iggy,
Look up where: Algebra, numbers, paper, and gunpowder came from. Try comparing, say, London in 9,00 AD with Beijing, Cairo, or some of the Aztec empires. Trying comparing Baghdad 5,000 years ago relative to the rest of the world relative to now.
Actually don’t. It’d short circuit your smidgeon of gray matter.
-
@ Anthony
Blacks in the US have been here for a hundreds of years, often much longer then people who came from Europe. The blacks still do bad in school, and commit loads of crimes. Don’t use the slavery excuse either, not all blacks were slaves, and not all people who came from Europe were affluent, most lived in situations that were just as bad, if not worse then slavery. Dirt poor Chinese went to Indonesia and were able to surpass the native Indonesians in one generation living in the same enviorment.
I said intelligence level is not only due to genetic. So genetic does have some contributions on the intelligence level but not the only causative factor. Blacks in America, even if they have been there for hundreds of years, are you sure that all of them have been given equal opportunity with whites through the generations regarding the access to all aspects in life, including job, education, civil rights, etc? Sure we had to wait until Barrack Obama became the President.
And again, I said that intelligence level is not the only thing that matters to reach welfare. Chinese in Indonesia, they probably don’t have a higher IQ on average than Indonesian (haven’t found a research about this), but maybe they have a better work ethic to support them in running their business (including justifying any means, sorry). And as the minorities usually do, besides being exclusive they tend to support each other, which is not a bad thing at all.
-
Iggy,
Look up where: Algebra, numbers, paper, and gunpowder came from. Try comparing, say, London in 9,00 AD with Beijing, Cairo, or some of the Aztec empires. Trying comparing Baghdad 5,000 years ago relative to the rest of the world relative to now.
Actually don’t. It’d short circuit your smidgeon of gray matter.
This is politically correct revisionism to make certain groups of people feel good. Almost everything we use in the modern world was created in the last 200 years by a group of people from a particular part of the world. That neat computer wasn’t invented in Baghdad or Cairo. That airplane wasn’t invented Beijing or Jakarta. That cell phone you use all day wasn’t created in Tunis or Kuala Lumpur. If these people were so great in the past they wouldn’t have been taken over by a less civilized people who people claim were living in the dark ages.
-
I said intelligence level is not only due to genetic. So genetic does have some contributions on the intelligence level but not the only causative factor. Blacks in America, even if they have been there for hundreds of years, are you sure that all of them have been given equal opportunity with whites through the generations regarding the access to all aspects in life, including job, education, civil rights, etc? Sure we had to wait until Barrack Obama became the President.
It has been government policy in the United States to set quota on the number of blacks employers and universities must accept, regardless of their ability. It is the same as the policy Malaysia has for ethnic Malays. These two I mentioned are given every opportunity to succeed, more so then other groups because of government policy.
And again, I said that intelligence level is not the only thing that matters to reach welfare. Chinese in Indonesia, they probably don’t have a higher IQ on average than Indonesian (haven’t found a research about this), but maybe they have a better work ethic to support them in running their business (including justifying any means, sorry). And as the minorities usually do, besides being exclusive they tend to support each other, which is not a bad thing at all.
It’s an accepted fact that Northern Asians like the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans have higher IQ’s then Southern Asians like the Indonesians, Filipinos, and Malays. You can see this by just visiting each country. Japan is an over crowded country, probably more so then Indonesia, but it is wealthy and organized country, it has less corruption. I agree there are mitigating factors between the different people, and having a national religion like Islam doesn’t help the Indonesians, but they just don’t have “it” to be like the Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese. It’s easy to point your finger and make excuses, but let’s be honest, every place on earth has been fought over and exploited.
-
donny says:
it has less corruption. I agree there are mitigating factors between the different people, and having a national religion like Islam doesn’t help the Indonesians, but they just don’t have “it”
Nope … I think it’s just about the culture here and the education level. Several indonesians, like BJ Habibie are acknowledged for his achievement in science …
too bad many of Indonesians did not put education as their main priority, even their government is half-hearted in supporting education …
compared to Japan … after losing WW II … what did they do ? they thrive in education … they translate as many books as possible to Japanese and made it cheap, so the people may buy it and read … and look what they’ve got now
Indonesia ? books are expensive (to indonesian standard) … somehow, not so many indonesian are fond of periplus or other quality bookstore because its price range …
and culture of Indonesian itself … whereas too many people bothering small stuffs and focusing their effort there … look what they do … they ban lion dance in Aceh because of Sharia … they ban Maria Ozawa … their DPRD are busy “checking out” Indonesian team in Sea Games on money collected from taxes …
too bad …
-
Folks,
Mr. Tolomeo is basically spouting Nazi arguments. In this day and age, they basically debunk themselves. No point in commenting, really.
-
Cultures are a product of the people, and not vice versa. Do you think if the Nigerians had a German culture they would produce what the Germans have? Not in a million years. We have to look past all these leftist excuses like environment and economics, and talk about genetics and race. I think the role religion plays in ones life is determined by their genetics. Ache is probably more religious then other parts of Indonesia because the religious are marrying the religious, ergo you have a religious kid. A European Muslim like the Bosnians aren’t going to be as fanatic as the more primitive people who practice Islam as you go further East.
Comment on “Islam Revert”.
Related Stories
Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-2025
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact
Indonesians are hypocrites, they act like it’s only “Westerners” who were ever violent, or invaded other people throughout history. That’s just a lie, because just about everyone has been aggressive at one time or another. Some just do it better then others. The Indonesians have a terrible track record when it comes to killing and abusing people in their OWN country.