Islam Revert
Dec 20th, 2008, in News, by PatungA teenage Australian girl from sunny Queensland finds Islam in Lampung and becomes a revert.
Kim, or Kimi, otherwise known as “KimDonesia” (Kim + Indonesia), a 17 year old Australian from Queensland, the Sunshine state, once lived in Lampung, southern Sumatra, for six months, accompanying her step-father who worked for a sugar company, Gula Putih Mataram (GPM).
While in Lampung she says she studied Islam, and was moved by the passionate devotion of the people there to the religion, and finally fell in love with it, particularly the sound of the call to prayer.
After moving back to Australia she converted to the faith, or reverted as she would have it. Here she explains, in rather good Indonesian, how she came to live in Indonesia in 2007:
In this video she explains her religious journey – from Wiccan moon worshipping, to nothing in particular, to Islam – she even has the pronunciation right, Islaaam, – and how living in Lampung and talking to the people there was one of the keys to her decision to throw her lot in with Allah.
Youtube Mission
Kimdonesia has in the short time since her conversion this year produced dozens of Islamic dakwah (missionary) videos on Youtube, and has a bit of a following among some Indonesians, at http://www.youtube.com/user/KimDonesia.
549 Comments on “Islam Revert”
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Burung Koel says:
Nope, thats’ not what she said at all
Hi Fawzia
Nice to meet you. You will come to understand my quirky sense of humour eventually.
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Fawzia says:
Hi Burung!
Hi Fawzia
Nice to meet you. You will come to understand my quirky sense of humour eventually.
Nice to meet you too! 🙂
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muhammadelijah says:
Assalamu ‘Alaikum
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=7423.0
Kim states the following the link above.Don’t get me wrong, I still respect Muslims. Islam was a big part of my life for quite a while. I simply disagree with Islam, for if there is a God (yup, 100% Agnostic now), He/She/It would not be so desperate for worship. People say “you need God, He doesn’t need you”. Doesn’t seem like it.
Her unfounded disagreement with Islam reflects that she didn’t actually intellectually identify with Islam in the first place.
Allaah quite unambiguously declares the exact opposite of what she stated
Soorah Al Baqarah
Soorah 2
Aayah 263
A kind word and the veiling of another’s want is better than a charitable deed followed by hurt; and Allaah is self-sufficient, forbearing.
http://honorablequran.com/2.htmSoorah Aali ‘Imraan
Soorah 3
Aayah 97
And as for those who deny the truth – verily, Allaah does not stand in need of anything in all the worlds.
http://honorablequran.com/3.htmSoorah Ibraaheem
Soorah 14
Aayah 8
And Moses said: Though ye and all who are in the earth prove thankless, lo! Allaah is indeed self-sufficient, ever to be praised!”
http://honorablequran.com/14.htm
.
Soorah ‘Ankaboot
Soorah 29
Aayah 6
Hence, whoever strives hard [in Allaah’s cause] does so only for his own good: for, verily, Allaah does not stand in need of anything in all the worlds!
http://honorablequran.com/29.htmSoorah Luqmaan
Soorah 31
Aayah 12
And, indeed, we granted this wisdom unto Luqman “Be grateful unto Allaah – for he who is grateful [unto Him] is but grateful for the good of his own self; whereas he who chooses to be ungrateful [ought to know that], verily, Allaah is self-sufficient, ever to be praised!”
http://honorablequran.com/31.htmSoorah Az Zumar
Soorah 39
Aayah 7
If you are thankless behold, Allaah has no need of you; none the less, He does not approve of ingratitude in His servants: whereas, if you show gratitude, He approves it in you. And no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden. In time, unto your Sustainer you all must return, and then He will make you [truly] understand all that you were doing [in life]: for, verily, He has full knowledge of what is in the hearts [of men].
http://honorablequran.com/39.htmSoorah Taghaabun
Soorah 64
Aayah 6
This, because time and again there came unto them their apostles with all evidence of the truth, but they [always] replied, “Shall mere mortal men be our guides?” And so they denied the truth and turned away. But Allaah was not in need [of them]: for Allaah is self-sufficient, ever to be praised.
http://honorablequran.com/64.htm -
Hi Muhammad Elijah,
You claim,
Her unfounded disagreement with Islam reflects that she didn’t actually intellectually identify with Islam in the first place.
Actually, you spout that oft repeated Muslim statement when confronted with an apostate, namely that they were never Muslims in the first place.
Allaah quite unambiguously declares the exact opposite of what she stated
Unfortunately His other statements, strewn throughout the Quran reflects the very opposite.
He states time & again that all those who don’t believe in Him are gonna burn eternally.
Infact the Quran, which is quite a small book, has a disproportionately high number of statements describing & reinforcing how “unbelievers” are going to burn.
I can barely turn a page of that nasty book, without either encountering passages describing how unbelievers will be tormented in the Afterlife OR instructing believers about the neccessity of slaughtering & torturing unbelievers.
A small sample.
Don’t bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6
Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10
A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24
Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90
If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85
For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104
For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114
“And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire.” (They are the non-muslims.) 2:119
Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126
The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162
Allah is severe punishment! 2:165-6
They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167
Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174
How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175
“Fight in the way of Allah.” 2:190, 2:244
Believers must retaliate. Those who transgress will have a painful doom. 2:178
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don’t kill them.) 2:191-2
“Guard us from the doom of Fire.” 2:201
Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell. 2:206
War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217
Those who marry unbelievers will burn in the Fire. 2:221
Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257
Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 3:4
Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 3:10
Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 3:12
“Guard us from the punishment of Fire.” 3:16
Non-muslims will be punished by Allah for their nonbelief. 3:19
Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 3:21
“They [Christians and Jews] say: The Fire will not touch us save for a certain number of days. That which they used to invent hath deceived them regarding their religion.” (The Fire will burn them forever.) 3:24
Theirs will be a painful doom. 3:77
All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 3:85
Apostates will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 3:86-88
Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 3:91
“Ye were upon the brink of an abyss of fire, and He did save you from it.” 3:103
Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 3:105-6
Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 3:116
The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 3:131
We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151
If you die fighting for Allah, you’ll be rewarded in heaven. 3:157
“Is one who followeth the pleasure of Allah as one who hath earned condemnation from Allah, whose habitation is the Fire?”
Unbelievers will burn forever in the Fire. 3:162“Think not of those, who are slain in the way of Allah, as dead.”
(Quoted by Osama bin Laden in his ‘letter to America’ regarding the 11 September 2001 attacks.) 3:169-171Theirs will be an awful doom. 3:176
Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 3:177
Disbelievers will have a shameful doom. 3:178
Whoso is removed from the Fire and is made to enter paradise, he indeed is triumphant.” (The rest will burn forever in the Fire.) 3:185
Those who brag about doing good will go to hell. 3:188
“Preserve us from the doom of Fire.” 3:191
“Our Lord! Whom Thou causest to enter the Fire: him indeed Thou hast confounded. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.” 3:192
Those who die fighting for Allah will go to heaven. 3:195
Disbelievers will go to Hell. 3:196
Don’t steal from orphans (or Allah will burn you forever in hell). 4:10
Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 4:14
For the disbelievers and those who make a last-minute conversion, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:18
“We shall cast him into Fire, and that is ever easy for Allah.” 4:30
For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 4:37
“Sanction is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged.”
Quoted by Osama bin Laden in his ‘letter to America’ as a justification for the 11 September 2001 attacks. 4:39Hell is sufficient for their burning. 4:55
Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56
Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74
Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91
Believers who kill believers will face the awful doom of hell. 4:93
“Their habitation will be hell, an evil journey’s end.” 4:97
Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 4:115
Allah will lead them astray and they will go to hell. 4:119-121
Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 4:137
For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 4:138
Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 4:140
The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 4:145
You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don’t are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 4:150-151
For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:160-1
God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 4:168-169
If you don’t do good works, Allah will punish you with a painful doom. 4:173
Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5:5
Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 5:10
“The owners of the fire. That is the reward of evil-doers.” 5:29
Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33
Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 5:36
Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom. 5:37
Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 5:38
Allah makes some people sin. He will not cleanse their hearts. They will have ignominy in this world, and in the Hereafter an awful doom. 5:41
Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. 5:45
Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72
Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73
Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80
Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 5:86
Allah will test believers to see if they are afraid. Those who fail a second test will suffer a a painful doom. 5:94
After agreeing to send down a table of food from heaven, Jesus warns his disciples that will catch holy hell if they ever stop believing. 5:115
Those who deny the truth of Islam will be punished by Allah. 6:5
“See the nature of the consequence for the rejecters!” 6:11
Many generations have been destroyed by Allah. 6:6
Disbelievers will say when they see the Fire that they would have believed if they had known the truth. But they are all liars. 6:27-28
“Evil-doers flout the revelations of Allah.” 6:33
Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 6:49
Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 6:70
When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 6:93
Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die. 6:113
Allah chooses to lead some astray, and he lays ignominy on those who disbelieve. 6:125
Allah will send everyone the Fire, except those he chooses to deliver. 6:128
Let the idolaters kill their children. It is Allah’s will. 6:137
The worst thing anyone can do is deny the revelations of Allah. Those who do so will be awared an evil doom. 6:157
How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them. 7:4-5
Allah banishes Iblis and promises to fill hell with those who are mislead by him. 7:18
Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire. 7:36
Entire nations have entered the Fire. Some get a double torment. 7:38
“Taste the doom for what ye used to earn.” 7:39
Disbelievers will be excluded from heaven. Theirs will be a bed of hell. 7:40-41
Those in the fire will be taunted by those in the Garden. “So how’s it going down there? Are you enjoying the warmth of the Fire?” 7:44
Those in the Garden will plead with Allah not to be cast into the Fire. 7:47
Those in the Fire will cry out to those in heaven, saying: “Pour water on us.” But Allah has forbidden that to disbelievers. 7:50
Allah drowned everyone on earth (except Noah and his family) because they disbelieved. 7:64
Those who believe incorrectly will face the terror and wrath of Allah. 7:71
“We cut the root of those who denied Our revelations and were not believers.” 7:72
Allah killed the disbelievers with an earthquake. 7:78
“So the earthquake seized them.”
Allah killed the disbelievers with an earthquake. 7:90-91“How can I sorrow for a people that rejected (truth)?”
Shu’eyb tells the Allah’s victims that they deserved to die for rejecting Islam. 7:93“Then We seized them unawares, when they perceived not.”
Unbelievers are never safe from Allah’s wrath. 7:95-99“We straitened Pharaoh’s folk with famine.”
Allah sent a famine on all of the Egyptians to punish Pharaoh. 7:130“So We sent against them the flood and the locusts and the vermin and the frogs and the blood – a succession of clear signs.” 7:133
“We drowned them in the sea: because they denied Our revelations.” 7:136
Those who worship the calf will suffer terror and humiliation from Allah. 7:152
“But those of them who … changed the word … We sent down upon them wrath from heaven.” 7:162
“Why preach ye to a folk whom Allah is about to destroy or punish with an awful doom?” 7:164
“When they forgot that whereof they had been reminded, We … visited [them] with dreadful punishment.” 7:165
Allah will punish the disbelieving Jews until the Day of Resurrection. 7:167
Allah has already sent many people and jinn to hell. They were worse than cows: they couldn’t see or hear and were neglectful. 7:179
“Allah … cut the root of the disbelievers.”
Allah destroyed the unbelievers. 8:7Allah will throw fear into the hearts of the disbelievers, and smite their necks and fingers. 8:12
Disbelievers will be tormented in the Fire. 8:14
When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell. 8:15-16
Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 8:17
Taste of the doom because ye disbelieve. 8:35
Those who disbelieve will be gathered into hell. 8:36
“The wicked will He place piece upon piece, and heap them all together, and consign them unto hell.” 8:37
The angels smite the face and backs of disbelievers, saying: “Taste the punishment of burning!” 8:50
Don’t let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60
Had it not been for an ordinance of Allah which had gone before, an awful doom had come upon you.” 8:68
He [Allah] gave thee [Muhammad] power over them.”
Allah gave Muhammad slaves as war booty. 8:70-1Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. 9:3
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. 9:5
Don’t let idolaters tend the sanctuaries. Their works are in vain and they will be burned in the Fire. 9:17
“Count ye the slaking of a pilgrim’s thirst … as (equal to the worth of) him who believeth in Allah and the Last Day, and striveth in the way of Allah?”
Helping the poor is not as important as believing in Islam and fighting in holy wars. 9:19Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to the rich and greedy Christian monks and Jewish rabbis. 9:34
Those who are tormented in the Fire will have their foreheads and backs branded. 9:35
If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 9:39
Disbelievers go to hell. 9:49
“Allah will afflict you with a doom from Him or at our hands.” 9:52
Those who vex the Prophet, for them there is a painful doom. 9:60
Those who oppose Allah and His messenger will burn in the fire of hell. 9:63
Allah promises hypocrites and disbelievers the fire of hell. Allah curses them. They will have a lasting torment. 9:68
Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 9:73
Allah will afflict disbelievers with a painful doom in this world and the Hereafter. 9:74
“Theirs will be a painful doom.” 9:79
Those who refuse to give their wealth and lives to Allah will face the fire of hell. 9:81-83
For disbelievers there will be a painful doom. 9:90
Non-muslim who pretend to believe (so they won’t be killed by Muslims) are unclean and will go to hell. 9:95
The unbelieving Arabs will be punished by Allah with an evil fortune. 9:97-98
“We shall chastise them twice; then they will be relegated to a painful doom.” 9:101
Those that ignore Allah will be thown into the fire of hell. 9:109
Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111
Don’t pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. 9:113
Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 9:123
Disbelievers will have a boiling drink and a painful doom. 10:4
If you enjoy life and ignore Muhammad’s bullshit, Allah will torture you forever in the Fire after you die. 10:7-8
Allah has destroyed entire generations. 10:13
“Ignominy overtaketh them – They have no protector from Allah – as if their faces had been covered with a cloak of darkest night. Such are rightful owners of the Fire.” 10:27
On the last day Allah will kill all the disbelievers (and then he will torture them forever in hell). 10:45
“His doom cometh unto you as a raid by night.” 10:50
The damned will feel remorse for what they have done, but it will not save them from the doom that Allah has prepared. 10:54
Those who disbelieved will face a dreadful doom. 10:70
Allah drowned those who disbelieved his revelations. 10:73
Moses asked Allah to harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they would not believe until they saw the painful doom. 10:88
If you deny the revelations of Allah, you will be among the losers and will “see the painful doom.” 10:95-97
“The doom cannot be averted from them, and that which they derided will surround them.” 11:8
Allah sent a lasting doom on those who mocked Noah. 11:39
Allah will send a painful doom on several nations. 11:48
“Lo! there cometh unto them a doom which cannot be repelled.” 11:76
Allah killed everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah by dropping burning stones on them. 11:82-83
Lo! Is fear for you the doom of a besetting Day.” 11:84
“Ye will soon know on whom there cometh a doom that will abase him.” 11:93
“He … will lead them to the Fire for watering-place.” 11:98
“The doom of the Hereafter” 11:103
Those in the Fire will suffer as long as the heavens and earth endure. 11:106-7
“Incline not toward those who do wrong lest the Fire touch you.” 11:113
Allah will fill hell with humans and jinn. 11:119
Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire 13:5
Those who do not answer Allah’s call will go to hell. 13:18
Allah leads disbelievers astry while he torments them in this life. Then afterh they die, he makes them uffer even more pain in the doom of the Hereafter. 13:33-34
The reward for disbelievers is the Fire. 13:35
“When Allah doometh there is none that can postpone His doom.” 13:41
Woe unto the disbelievers. Theirs will be an awful doom. 14:2
Those who are in hell will be forced to drink festering water which they can hardly swallow. They will want to die, but they will not be able to. Theirs is a harsh doom. 14:16-17
There is no escape from Allah’s doom. 14:21
“Lo! for wrong-doers is a painful doom.” 14:22
Allah leads wrong-doers astray and then sends them to hell. 14:27-29
“They set up rivals to Allah that they may mislead (men) from His way. Say: Enjoy life (while ye may) for lo! your journey’s end will be the Fire.” 14:30
“Warn mankind of a day when the doom will come upon them.” 14:44
Those in hell will be chained together. Their clothing will be made of pitch and fire will cover their faces. 14:49-50
Iblis will lead humans astray. Only perfect Muslims will be safe from him. The rest will go to hell. 15:39-43
Allah’s doom is a dolorous doom. 15:50
Allah made a roof fall in to kill unbelievers. “And the doom came on them whence they knew not.” 16:26
Disbelievers are evil and will dwell in hell forever. 16:27-29
Allah “will cause the earth to swallow” those who plan ill-deeds. the doom will come on them when they least expect it. 16:45
Theirs will be the Fire, and they will be abandoned.” 16:62
“Theirs will be a painful doom.” 16:63
“The Hour of Doom is but a twinkling of the eye.” 16:77
“When those who did wrong behold the doom, it will not be made light for them.” 16:85
Allah will add doom to doom for those who disbelieve. 16:88
Those who oppose Islam will face an awful doom. 16:94
Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 16:104
Those who loose their faith in Islam will face an awful doom. Allah’s wrath is upon them. 16:106
Those who invent lies against Allah will have a painful doom. 16:116-7
Allah made hell to be a dungeon for disbelievers. 17:8
Allah has prepared a painful doom for those who disbelieve in the Hereafter. 17:10
Allah destroyed entire towns. 17:16
How many generations Allah has destroyed since Noah! 17:17
Allah intends to burn people in hell. 17:18
“Set not up with Allah any other god, lest thou be cast into hell.” 17:39
“Lo! the doom of thy Lord is to be shunned.” 17:57
Allah will destroy every town before the Day of Resurrection. 17:58
Whoever follows Iblis will be cast into hell. 17:63
Allah will send disbelievers astray. Then he’ll burn them in hell, increasing the flames from time to time. 17:97-98
Allah has prepared a Fire for the disbelievers. When they want a shower, Allah will give them a shower of molten lead to burn their faces. 18:29
Christians will cry out to Allah’s “partners”, but they won’t hear them; Allah will send them to their doom. 18:52
Those who are condemned to the Fire know they will have no way to escape. 18:53
Nothing prevents non-muslims from believing in Islam. So it’s their own fault when they are sent to their doom. 18:55
There is an appointed time in which the doomed will find no escape. 18:58
Allah has destroyed many towns. 18:59
On a certain day, Allah will present hell, in plain view, to the disbelievers. 18:100
Allah will welcome the disbelievers into hell. 18:102
The good works of disbelievers are all in vain. They will go to hell anyway. 18:104-105
Hell is the reward for disbelievers because they made a jest of Allah’s revelations and messengers. 18:106
“Woe unto the disbelievers from the meeting of an awful Day.”
Jesus was not the Son of God. Those who say he was (Christians) are going to hell. 19:35-37Allah will pluck out from every sect those who should burn in hell. 19:69-70
“How many a generation have We destroyed before them?”
Allah brags about destroying entire generations. 19:74Allah will prolong the lives of non-believers so they can see their punishment, either in this world or in the Hour of doom. 19:75
Allah will record what disbelievers say and then prolong their torment. 19:77-79
Allah has sent the devils on the disbelievers to confuse them. 19:83
Allah will “drive the guilty unto hell, a weary herd.” 19:86
Allah has destroyed many generations. 19:98
Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved. 20:6
The people cried out for mercy, but Allah killed them anyway. 20:15
Lo! it hath been revealed unto us that the doom will be for him who denieth and turneth away.” 20:48
“There [in hell] he will neither die nor live.” 20:74
Those who do not believe Allah’s revelations will face doom in the Hereafter. 20:127
Allah has destroyed many generations. 20:128
Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved. 21:6
“And one of them who should say: Lo! I am a god beside Him, that one We should repay with hell.” 21:29
Disbelievers will not be able to put out the fire on their faces and backs. They will be stupefied and no one will help them. 21:39-40
“Fear the Lord … and dread the Hour of doom.” 21:49
Every person alive at the time of the flood was evil. So Allah drowned them all. 21:77
The disbelievers will stare in terror at what Allah has in store for them. 21:97-99
When the doom of Allah comes, pregnant women will suffer miscarriages, and men will act like they are drunk. 22:1-2
The devil will guide some to the punishment of the Flame. 22:3-4
Those who turn from the way of Allah will face ignominy in this world and burning in the next. 22:9
Whoever thinks that Allah will not give Muhammad victory should go hang himself. 22:15
“There are many unto whom the doom is justly due. Allah doeth what he will.” 22:18
Disbelievers will wear garments of fire, boiling fluid will be poured on their heads, their bellies and skin will be melted, they will be tormented with iron hooks, and when they try to escape they will be driven back with the taunt: Taste the doom of burning. 22:19-22
Allah will provide the disbelievers with a painful doom. 22:25
How many towns Allah has destroyed! 22:45
“They will bid thee hasten on the Doom.” 22:47
Those who disregard Allah’s revelations are the owners of the Fire. 22:51
“Those who disbelieve will not cease to be in doubt thereof until the Hour come upon them unawares, or there come unto them the doom of a disastrous day.” 22:55
Those who disbelieve Allah’s revelations will have a shameful doom. 22:57
Those who disbelieve Allah’s revelations will burn in the Fire. 22:72
Allah told Noah not to bother pleading for the people he was about to drown. 23:27
Those who don’t believe in the Hereafter will receive extreme punishment from Allah. 23:74-77
“Those whose scales are light are those who lose their souls, in hell abiding.” 23:103
When fire burns their faces, they will be glum. 23:104
Scourge adulterers and adulteresses with 100 stripes. Do not show them any pity. Have a party of believers watch the punishment. 24:2
Those who spread slander will face an awful doom. 24:11
Those who murmur will face an awful doom. 24:14
Those who traduce virtuous, believing women … cursed are they in the world and the Hereafter. Theirs will be an awful doom.” 24:23
Disbelievers will never escape the Fire that will be their home. 24:57
Those who deny the coming of the Hour will be chained together and burned with fire. They will pray for their own destruction. 25:11-13
Allah will force the evil-doers to taste great torment. 25:19
It will be a hard day for disbelievers and wrong-doers. They will gnaw on their hands and wish they had chosen Islam. 25:26-27
“Those who will be gathered on their faces unto hell” 25:34
Those who deny Muhammad’s revelations will be destroyed. 25:36
Allah drowned everyone in the flood of Noah, and has prepared a painful doom for evil-doers. 25:37
“They [the non-muslims] will know, when they behold the doom, who is more astray as to the road.” 25:42
“The doom of hell; lo! the doom thereof is anguish.” 25:65
Those who cry out to another god with Allah will be tormented doubly in hell. 25:68-69
“Hell will appear plainly to the erring.” 26:91
Allah killed those that ignored Hud’s warnings. 26:124-139
Allah destroyed the people in Lot’s town with a dreadful rain. 26:172-3
Many will not believe until they see the painful doom. 26:201
Those who believe in another god are doomed. 26:213
Allah leads those who do not believe in the Hereafter astray by making things work out OK in this life, so that he can torment them forever in the next. They will get the worst punishment and will be the greatest losers. 27:4-5
“Allah destroyed them and their people, every one.” 27:51
Allah sent a dreadful rain on “those who stayed behind.” 27:58
Whoever does something wrong will be thrown into the Fire. 27:90
“We made them (evil-doers) patterns that invite unto the Fire, and on the Day of Resurrection they will not be helped.” 28:40-42
Allah has completely destroyed many communities. 28:58
Allah will taunt Christians on the day of their doom, saying: Where are My partners whom ye imagined? 28:62-64
Allah caused the earth to swallow Korah. 28:79-81
Those who disbelieve in the revelations of Allah have no hope of mercy. For such there is a painful doom. 29:23
“Ye have chosen only idols instead of Allah … on the Day of Resurrection ye will deny each other and curse each other, and your abode will be the Fire, and ye will have no helpers.” 29:25
“Bring Allah’s doom upon us.” 29:29
The doom of hell will come upon disbelievers suddenly, when they least expect it. 29:53-55
The worst thing you can do is tell a lie about Allah. Hell is the home of disbelievers. 29:68
Allah seals the heart of disbelievers. (And then he burns them in the Fire.) 30:59
Those who mislead others from Allah’s way and mock Islam will have a painful doom. 31:6-7
Allah will give disbelievers a little comfort for a little while, and then he’ll torment them forever with a heavy doom. 31:23-24
Allah will fill hell with the jinn and mankind together. 32:13
Allah: Taste the doom of immortality because of what ye used to do. 32:14
Those who used to deny the Fire will be tormented in it forever. 32:20
The worst thing you can do is to deny the revelations of Allah. 32:22
He hath prepared a painful doom for the unfaithful.” 33:8
Allah cast panic into the hearts of the disbelievers. He killed some, and enslaved others. 33:25-26
Those who oppose Islam will be slain with a fierce slaughter. 33:60-61
Allah has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming fire, wherein they will abide forever. 33:64-65
The disbelievers will be burned in the Fire with a double torment. 33:66-68
Those who challenge the revelations of Muhammad will have a painful doom. 34:5
Those who disbelieve in the Hereafter will be tormented. 34:8
But some of the jinn Allah burned with flaming Fire. 34:12
“They are filled with remorse when they behold the doom; and We place carcans on the necks of those who disbelieved.” 34:33
Those who strive against Allah’s revelations will be brought to the doom. 34:38
Those who worshipped the jinn will taste the doom of the Fire. 34:41
Those who ignore Allah’s messenger (Muhammed) will face a terrific doom. 34:46
Those who are cast into hell be terrified when they see that they have no escape. Then they will believe. But it will be too late. 34:51-52
The devil is real. He and his followers will burn forever in the Fire. 35:6
Those who disbelieve will have an awful doom. 35:7
“Those who plot iniquities … will have an awful doom.” 35:10
Disbelievers will burn forever in the fire of hell. Allah will keep them alive so that he can torture them forever. When they repent and ask for mercy, he will ignore them. 35:36-7
Allah has blinded the disbelievers so that they cannot see the truth. So it don’t bother warning them. They will go to hell anyway. 36:8-10
Allah has destroyed many entire generations. 36:31
If Allah feels like it, he will drown everyone. 36:43
Allah will burn the disbelievers in hell. 36:63-4
Those who “did wrong” will go to hell, and their wives will go to hell with them (no matter how they behaved). 37:22-23
Those who refuse to believe in Muhammad’s revelations will face a painful doom. 37:31-38
“Then looketh he and seeth him in the depth of hell.” 37:55
If you’re not favored by Allah, you’re doomed. 37:57
Those in hell must eat from a tree with the heads of devils, and then drink boiling water. After that they return to hell. 37:62-68
Only the “single-minded slaves of Allah” will be saved from the doom. 37:127-8
Allah killed everyone in Sodom except for Lot and his family. 37:136
No one is against Allah, except those who burn in hell. 37:162-3
Just wait a while and watch. The unbelievers will soon be destroyed in the doom. 37:176-9
Allah has destroyed many generations. 38:3
Those who doubt will soon taste Allah’s doom. 38:8
Those who deny the messengers deserve doom. 38:14
Those who wander from the way of Allah will have an awful doom. 38:26
Those who disbelieve will burn in the Fire. 38:27
David slashed their legs and necks (with Allah’s approval). 38:33
The transgressors will roast in the Fire and be forced to drink boiling liquids followed by ice cold drinks. 38:55-9
“Whoever did prepare this for us, oh, give him double portion of the Fire!” 38:61
Iblis asks Allah to let him hang around and mislead humans. Allah allows him to do so, and Iblis leads all humans to hell except for the single-minded slaves. Allah agrees, and plans to fill hell with Iblis and his followers. 38:79-85
Tell the disbelievers to enjoy themselves now, because later they will be owners of the Fire. 39:8
Those who disobey Allah should fear his doom. 39:13
The losers will be those who lose themselves and their families on the Day of Resurrection. They will be surrounded by fire. 39:15-16
No one will be able to help those that Allah torments in the Fire. 39:19
“Wrong-doers” will be taunted while suffering in an “awful doom.” 39:24
The doom will come upon those who deny what Allah has revealed. 39:25
Allah will make non-believers “taste humiliation in the life of the world” and ” the doom of the Hereafter” which will be even worse. 39:26
The worst thing you can do is tell a lie against Allah. The home of disbelievers is hell. 39:32
“On whom there falleth everlasting doom.” 39:40
“They … will seek to ransom themselves … from the awful doom.” 39:47
Surrender to Allah before he sends the doom upon you suddenly. 39:54-55
Disbelievers had their chance to believe. They will all suffer in an endless doom. 39:56-59
Those who lie about Allah will be sent to hell and will have their faces blackened. 39:60
Those who disbelieve will be driven into hell. 39:71-72
Allah sent an awful punishment at the time of Noah. 40:5
Those who disbelieve are the owners of the Fire. 40:6
When the doom comes, the hearts of the doomed will choke in their throats, and no one will help them. 40:18
Those who ignore Allah’s “clear proofs” will be seized and punished severely. 40:22
Disbelievers will burn forever in the Fire. 41:41-42
The prodigals will be owners of the Fire. 40:43
“A dreadful doom encompassed Pharaoh’s folk.” 40:45
The doomed will be exposed to the Fire morning and evening. 40:46
While burning in the Fire, they argue about who is to blame. 40:47
Those in hell will beg to be relieved from the Fire’s torment for just a day. But the prayer of a disbeliever is in vain. 40:49-50
Those who bicker about Allah’s revelations are filled with pride. 40:56
Those who scorn Allah will go to hell. 40:60
Those who deny the revelations of Allah are perverted. 40:63
Those who deny the Scripture and Allah’s messengers will be dragged through boiling water and thrust into the Fire. 40:70-72
Allah will taunt the Christians in hell, saying: Where are all my parnters that you used to believe in? 40:73
Thus does Allah send astray the disbelievers (in his guidance). 40:74
Those who scorn will go to hell. 40:76
When they see Allah’s doom they will believe in Allah. But their faith will not save them. The disbelievers will be ruined. 40:84-85
Allah will make life miserable for those who deny his revelations and then he will torment them forever in the Hereafter. And they will not be helped. 41:15-16
“The doom of humiliation overtook them because of what they used to earn.” 41:17
The enemies of Allah will be gathered into the Fire where their skin, ears, and eyes will testify against them. 41:19-20
Non-muslims will be tormented forever in the Fire. Allah will not have any mercy on them. 41:24
Allah will make those who disbelieve taste an awful doom. Their immortal home will be the Fire, since they denied Allah’s revelations. 41:27-28
“Lo! those who distort Our revelations are not hid from Us. Is he who is hurled into the Fire better?” 41:40
Those who disbelieve will taste hard punishment. 41:50
While some lounge in the Garden, others will roast in the Flame. 42:7
Those who argue about Allah will have his wrath upon them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 42:16
For wrong-doers there is a painful doom. 42:21
“And as for disbelievers, theirs will be an awful doom.” 42:26
Allah sometimes kills people for misbehaving. 42:34
“For such there is a painful doom.” 42:42
Allah sends some people astray and then punishes them for it by burning them in the Fire. 42:44-46
“And thou wilt see them exposed to (the Fire), made humble by disgrace.” 42:45
Those who turn people away from Islam will “be sharers in the doom.” 43:37-39
When the Egyptians angered Allah, he drowned them all. 43:55
Those who argue and do wrong will have a painful doom that will come upon them suddenly. 43:65-66
The guilty are tormented forever in hell. Allah will not relax their punishment. 43:74-75
“But they will come to know.”
Allah will torment disbelievers forever in hell. 43:88-89Those in torment will claim to believe and ask Allah for relief. But he will refuse since they will return to their disbelief. 44:11-16
Those in hell must eat from a tree like molten brass that burns their bellies. Then boiling water will be poured on their heads. 44:43-48
“He hath saved them [Muslims] from the doom of hell.”
(Everyone else is going to hell.) 44:56Those who hear and reject Allah’s revelations are sinful liars. Give them tidings of a painful doom. 45:7-8
Those who joke about Allah’s revelations will go to hell. Theirs will be a shameful doom. 45:9-10
Those who disbelieve in Allah’s revelations will have an awful doom of wrath. 45:11
“Your habitation is the Fire, and there is none to help you.” 45:34
Disbelievers will be rewarded with the ignominious doom of the Fire. 46:20
Serve only Allah or face the doom of a tremendous day. 46:21
The guilty will face a wind with a painful torment. 46:25
Allah has destroyed entire towns. 46:27
If you believe Muhammed, Allah will forgive some of your sins and protect you from the painful doom (that he plans to torture everyone else with). 46:31
Allah will taunt the disbelievers that he torments in the fire, saying: “Taste the doom for that ye disbelieved.” 46:34
Smite the necks of the disbelievers whenever you fight against them. Those who die fighting for Allah will be rewarded. 47:4
Allah will damn the disbelievers and make all their actions fruitless. 47:8-9
Disbelievers may eat and be happy now, but the Fire will be their final home. 47:12
Those in the Garden will drink delicious wine, while those in the Fire will drink boiling water that will tear apart their intestines. 47:15
Allah curses people by making them deaf and blind. 47:23
Angels will gather them together and smite their faces and backs. 47:27
Those who think an evil thought concerning Allah will be cursed and sent to hell by him. 48:6
Allah has prepared a flame for the disbelievers. 48:13
If you refuse to fight for Allah, he will punish you with a painful doom. 48:16
“Whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom.” 48:17
But if you’re willing to fight for Allah, he will provide you with lots of booty. 48:19-20
Allah punished those who disbelieved with a painful punishment. 48:25
Those with Muhammad are ruthless toward disbelievers and merciful toward themselves. 48:29
Allah will hurl those who believe in another god into a dreadful doom. 50:26
“We say unto hell: Art thou filled? and it saith: Can there be more to come?”
Allah talks to hell about it’s occupancy level. 50:30Allah has destroyed many entire generations. 50:36
Accursed are the conjecturers who ask: When is the Day of Judgment? It is the day they will be tormented by the Fire. 51:10-14
“We left behind therein a portent for those who fear a painful doom.” 51:37
Lo! the doom of thy Lord will surely come to pass.” 52:7
Those who deny the existence of hell will be thrust into its Fire. 52:11-16
“Their Lord hath warded off from them the torment of hell-fire.”
(Everyone else is going to hell — and the believers are all okay with that.) 52:18“Allah hath been gracious unto us and hath preserved us from the torment of the breath of Fire.” 52:27
Allah sent a storm of stones on Lot’s folk, killing all but Lot’s family. 54:34
The suffering in hell will be more wretched and bitter than anything experienced on earth. 54:46-48
Allah destroyed many people, but does anyone remember anymore? 54:51
“There will be sent, against you both, heat of fire and flash of brass, and ye will not escape.” 55:35
The guilty deny hell. But after they die they go circling between it and fierce, boiling water. 55:43-44
But those on his left hand will face scorching wind, scalding water, and black smoke. 56:42-43
Those who deny Allah and the Hereafter will eat from the Zaqqum tree and drink boiling water. 56:51-54
Allah will welcome the rejecters and erring with boiling water and a roasting in the hell fire. 56:92-94
Those who disbelieve or doubt the revelations of Allah will be face the doom. 57:13-14
The home of disbelievers is the Fire, a hapless journey’s end. 57:15
Those who disbelieve and deny Allah’s revelations are the owners of the fire. 57:19
For disbelievers is a painful doom. 58:4
For disbelievers is a shameful doom. 58:5
Those who disobey Muhammed will go to hell. 58:8
Don’t make friends with Allah’s enemies. For those who do so, Allah has prepared a dreadful doom. 58:14-15
Those who turn others away from the way of Allah will have a shameful doom. They are rightful owners of the Fire. 58:16-17
Allah cast fear into the hearts of the disbelieving People of the Scripture. Their home in the Hereafter will be the Fire. 59:2-3
The disbelievers fear the believers more than Allah. 59:13
The devil and disbelievers will be in the Fire. 59:16-17
Allah loves those who fight for him. 61:4
“O ye who believe! Shall I show you a commerce that will save you from a painful doom?” 61:10
Those who disbelieve will have a painful doom. 64:5
Those who disbelieve are the owners of the Fire. 64:10
The fuel of the Fire is men and stones. 66:6
Be stern with disbelievers. They are going to Hell anyway. 66:9
Allah has prepared for the devils a doom of flame. 67:5
Disbelievers will go to hell where they will hear its roaring and boiling. 67:6-7
Who will protect the disbelievers from a painful doom? (Nobody) 67:28
Those who consider the Quran to be “mere fables” will be branded on the nose.68:15-16
Those who do not believe in Allah will be chained up and cast into hell-fire where they will eat filth. 69:30-35
“Lo! it is the fire of hell Eager to roast.” 70:15
Doom is about to fall on all disbelievers. Only worshippers (Muslims) and those who preserve their chastity (except with their wives and slave girls) will be spared from “the fires of hell” that are “eagar to roast.” 70:1-30
“Lo! the doom of their Lord is that before which none can feel secure” (except for maybe those who are fearful of it). 70:27-28
Disbelievers will enter hell with frantic with fear, knowing they will be tortured forever by Allah. 70:36, 44
Allah sent Noah to warn people about the painful doom he was planning to send. (It didn’t work out well; Allah sent it anyway.) 71:1
Those that Allah drowned in Noah’s flood were then tortured forever in the Fire. 71:25
Noah asked Allah to drown all the disbelievers. 71:26
The fires of hell will be fueled with the bodies of idolators and unbelievers. They will experience an ever-greater torment. 72:15-17
Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will dwell forever in the fire of hell. 72:23
The fires of hell will be fueled with the bodies of idolators and unbelievers. They will experience an ever-greater torment. 72:15-17
Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will dwell forever in the fire of hell. 72:23
Allah will take care of the deniers. He will tie them up, burn them in a raging fire, and feed them food that chokes them. 73:11-13
The last day will be a day of anguish for disbelievers. 74:9-10
Those who are stubborn to Allah’s revelations will face a fearful doom. 74:16-17
The fire of hell shrivels humans and spares nothing. 74:27-29
Allah has appointed angels to tend the Fire and has prepared stumbling blocks for those who disbelieve. He sends some people (whoever he wants) astray. 74:31
Those who pay attention to this life and ignore the Hereafter will suffer forever in hell. 75:20-29
The doom is coming soon. 75:35
Allah has prepared chains, manacles, and a raging fire for the disbelievers. 76:4
Allah has prepared a painful doom for evil-doers. 76:31
Allah destroyed “the former folk.” 77:16
Woe unto the repudiators on that day! 77:19, 77:24, 77:28, 77:34, 77:40, 77:45, 77:49
Depart unto that doom which ye used to deny.” 77:29
Those who deny the revelations given to Muhammed will burn forever in hell. 78:21-30
“Lo! We warn you of a doom at hand, a day whereon a man will look on that which his own hands have sent before, and the disbeliever will cry: ‘Would that I were dust!'” 78:40
Those who rebel by choosing this life over the next will go to hell. 79:37-39
The wicked will burn in hell forever. 82:14-16
Those who reject Allah’s revelations will burn in hell. 83:10-17
The disbelievers used to laugh at the believers. But the final laugh will be on them. 83:29-36
Some folks will be thrown into a scorching fire. 84:11-12
Disbelievers will be given a painful doom. 84:22-24
“(Self-)destroyed were the owners of the ditch Of the fuel-fed fire.” 85:4-5
Those who persecute Muslims, without repenting, will burn in hell. 85:10
Those who are flung into the great Fire will neither live nor die. 87:12-13
On that day many will be sad and weary. Scorched by the fire, drinking boiling water, with only bitter thorn-fruit to eat. 88:2-7
Allah will punish disbelievers with the direst punishment. 88:23-24
Allah poured the disaster of His punishment upon those who rebelled against him. 89:11-13
Those who disbelieve Allah’s revelations will have the Fire placed over them like an awning. 90:19-20
“Allah doomed them for their sin” and burned their houses. 91:14
Those who deny Allah’s revelations must endure the flaming fire. 92:14-16
Allah will grab those who deny His guidance by the forelock and call the guards of hell. 96:13-18
Those who disbelieve will abide in the fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings. 98:6
What is the Calamity? It is a day when dead people’s bodies will be scattered like moths, consumed in a raging fire. 101:1-11
Allah will show humans hellfire and then he will ask them about pleasure. 102:5-7
If Allah is such a self sufficient entity as He likes to claim, needing no one’s worship & since He’s decided to not reveal Himself to other mere mortals except morally dubious characters like Muhammad, whats’ His neccessity to repeat again & again that He’ll burn people for disbelief???
Or is He not as self sufficient as He claims?
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ET says:
Fawzia said
Its another way of rebelling, especially for many women.
One way of rebelling is getting eating disorders, getting drunk, another is getting a hijab & a burkini!
True. For the same reason feminists in some places in Europe are now sympathising with the muslim girls who complain not being allowed to wear their hijab or similar religious headrags in schools.
Pathetic how these feminists consider women as holy cows. What they once labeled as slave rags are now becoming items of female liberation and independence.
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True. For the same reason feminists in some places in Europe are now sympathising with the muslim girls who complain not being allowed to wear their hijab or similar religious headrags in schools.
Pathetic how these feminists consider women as holy cows. What they once labeled as slave rags are now becoming items of female liberation and independence.
How true! Feminists of many Western societies would complain no end about the most trivial discrimination against women by Western “White ” men, but prefer to maintain either a stoic silence or else make excuses for the excesses of non Western men, especially Muslim men.
I of course condemn any violence, employment discrimination or misbehavior against Muslims, but sometimes this treading on eggshells attitude when it comes to Islam offends me no end.
Actually, many leftists, feminists etc in the West need some or the other, real or perceived “victim” to sympathise with, which they get through Muslims’s constant whining. Muslims have very successfully made themselves out to be victims, although Islamic history too is very similar to Western history with its mass taking over of others’ lands, slaughter of infidels, destroying others’ religious places-albeit without the reforming & enlightening capacities of the West.
Thus often, any non Western society is sympathized with more than Western societies, & of course Muslim non Westerners are given a special place even above non Muslim Westerners.
The result of this attitude is that, not only do Turkish & Pakistani folks get more sympathy & empathy compared to Danish or Irish ones, but they get more sympathy compared to even whats’ left of the Turkish Armenians & Pakistani Hindu. 🙂
So to feminists Arab & Muslim men might well be brutes to their own women, yet to the Western feminists, they’re fellow victims of the Big Bad White Man! 😉
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Fawzia
You translation of Aayah 10 of Soorah Al Baqarah ,like many others require certain rectifications.
Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10
In their hearts is disease, and so Allaah lets their disease increase; and grievous suffering awaits them because of their persistent lying.
The narrative changes significantly.
You quoted Aayah 1 of Soorah Nooh
Allah sent Noah to warn people about the painful doom he was planning to send. (It didn’t work out well; Allah sent it anyway.) 71:1
We sent Noah unto his people. [saying:] “Warn thy people ere grievous suffering befall them!
Would you linguistically corroborate your translation or publicly admit your mendacity?
Then you quoted Aayah 26 of Soorah Nooh
And Noah prayed: “O my Sustainer! Leave not on earth any of those who deny the truth.”
But why did you fail to quote the pain of Nooh (alaihis salaam) expressed in Aayah 5 of Soorah Nooh of his patient struggle day and night from nine and a half centuries?
He said: “O my Lord! I have called to my People night and day.”
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donny says:
muhammadelijah …
I’m just curious … help me with this one
what is the requirement to be muslim ?
shada, right ?? only by saying that one become muslim … and of course all of the obligation will followthen how come King Solomon (not prophet, but king), King David (also king, not prophet), Noah, Jesus … all become prophet of Islam, whereas Islam comes many many many centuries later and there are NO PROOF whatsoever that they recite Shahada at all …
how could you say they’re muslims ? honestly, I am confused …
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Hi MdElijah,
One or two verses isn’t the point, the point is that the Quran is an extremely repetitive book, it repeats over & over again one single thing-believe or burn in Hell.
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Nay says:
Wow, a huge religious discussion.
You can’t really have one with any credibility until you define the terms of discourse (e.g. what “God” is). On top of that, actually defining these terms is made difficult because religious texts tend to use symbolism, allegory, and metaphor — and then these can be misinterpreted! So for the most part, you are not dealing with a logical scientific discussion, but a person’s interpretation of a text and the resulting logical conclusions that come from that viewpoint.
…at that point we may as well say… why not make up your own religious system of belief?
Like all “one true religions” there are so many to choose from, and “God” (and evolutionary biology) tend to enjoy the diversity that comes from so many ways of looking at things. Viva la difference. We can see the proof of this given by the fact that there are so many differing belief systems in the world today – most of them functional. For many years, religions, tribes, and people have been cut off from the rest of the world and developed differently… and only now does modern technology force us to confront it. The religions we have today may be gone in a few thousand years (much like the other ancient ones before them)… so when it comes to religious belief, please forgive me for viewing it much like culture and tradition, as opposed to the “one and only correct way of being”… because it isn’t. The fact that many different ones exist today prove this, while the ones that “didn’t make it” have died out.
Now, Islam isn’t all that bad when you accept that the Quran (like the Bible before it), is full of symbolism and metaphor. A literal interpretation of the Quran just so happens to be far more terrifying than that of the Bible, although the Bible has some pretty nasty bits in it too.I just think Islam cops a lot of schtick, and much like other religions, those who proclaim to belong to them still really don’t “get it” yet.
Regardless of who you are though, you have to respect The Prophet of Islam. Aside from being the greatest religious and military leader the world has ever seen, he went up to a mountain and found Allah on his own. That’s something that I think we should all aspire to ourselves.
Love and peace everyone.
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Cukurungan says:
Hi MdElijah,
One or two verses isn’t the point, the point is that the Quran is an extremely repetitive book, it repeats over & over again one single thing-believe or burn in Hell.
The Point is no other book than Quran who can convince more than hundred million of its reader is ready to do whatever necessary to protect what had been written in it, so please do not be shy please make joints effort to create another book better than Quran, so the reader of your book dare to challenge the Quran follower in the real world
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Hi Nay,
Regardless of who you are though, you have to respect The Prophet of Islam. Aside from being the greatest religious and military leader the world has ever seen, he went up to a mountain and found Allah on his own. That’s something that I think we should all aspire to ourselves.
Correction:
1)You have to respect the Prophet of Islam
I don’t have to respect Muhammad, I can disrespect him if it pleases me to do so too. Muhammad & Mohammedans can’t hold a gun to people’s head to force them to respect Muhammad, people can read about him & decide on their own. I was unfortunately born into a Muslim family & an Islamic theocracy, I’ve read the Quran, the Sahih hadiths & the Sira, I have reached the conclusion that Muhammad was a character extremely unworthy of respect from any reasonable & civilized person, & the problem with Islam is to a huge extent the problem with Muhammad.I greatly disrespect him.
2)Aside from being the greatest religious & military leader the world has seen:
Extremely subjective, I would rate Buddha & Jesus as head & shoulder above Muhammad as religious leaders. Infact, non Muslims are repulsed by the accounts of Muhammad’s plunders, rapes, pedophilia & other excesses, I haven’t seen that many non believers hating Jesus or Buddha after reading about him.
As for military leader, your claims are laughable, Chengiz Khan, Alexander the Great are far superior military leaders.
he went up to a mountain and found Allah on his own.
That is unprovable, Muhammad wasn’t the first person who claimed that he’d spoken to God, nor the last. Many from Moses to Bahaullah & Joseph Smith made similar claims.Today, I too can claim that God spoke to me, that won’t make it truthful.
That’s something that I think we should all aspire to ourselves
I would hope no one aspired for such a thing, the world has enough problems without adding another wanna be gangster Prophet a la Muhammad, whose followers would march out of some desert & invade & brutalize the world. 😉
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Fawzia
While I sifted through your quotes (and it took me a lot of time,I missed one of my Computer Networks quizzes, by the way) I dicovered some discrepancies, some non sequitur quotations, which I would like to indicate here.
You quoted:
“(Self-)destroyed were the owners of the ditch Of the fuel-fed fire.” 85:4-5
Are you referring here to the self-destruction of the Ashabul Ukhdud who burnt Muslims alive by digging pits filled with fire and sympathising with them?
Or you misunderstood Naar or Fire in Aayah 5 of Soorah Burooj as referring to Naar of Jahannam in the Aakhirah, that is, The Fire of The Hell in The Hereafter?
The martyrdom of the martyrs who were burnt alive by Ashabul Ukhdud narrated in Soorah Burooj constitute an unprecedented event in the Islamic martyrological narrative that inspired the military success of Sahaabah or The Companions or Orientalistically(as used by Western Orientalists) Early Muslims.
An account of different versions of Ashabul Ukhdud event can be accessed, although with some typographical errors and a bit unnatural English of a non-native writer of English at:
http://englishtafsir.com/Quran/85/index.html
If you google Ashabul Ukhdud, there is a search entry which quotes 85:4, that is, a book by David Cook with the title Martyrdom in Islam.
http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521615518&ss=froAlso, you quoted
What is the Calamity? It is a day when dead people’s bodies will be scattered like moths, consumed in a raging fire. 101:1-11
Following are three translations of Faraashil Mabthooth as used in Aayah 4 of Soorah Al Qaari’ah in bold.
On the Day when men will be like moths swarming in confusiona Day whereon men will be like moths scattered about
A day wherein mankind will be as thickly scattered mothsWhat is the source of your translation like moths, consumed in a raging fire.? I would be greatly delighted by your enlightenment.
If there is such a translation, of which I allow a possibility, it would be a non sequitur as regards the points you are trying to get across, because it doesn’t concern, whatsoever with Hell-fire at least in the context of moths and dead bodies.However, at the end of Soorah Al Qaari’ah there is a juxtaposition of the Heaven and Hell.
On the Day when men will be like moths swarming in confusion,
And the mountains will be like fluffy tufts of wool. . . .
And then, he whose weight [of good deeds] is heavy in the balance
Shall find himself in a happy’ state of life;
Whereas he whose weight is light in the balance
Shall be engulfed by an abyss.
And what could make thee conceive what that [abyss]
A fire hotly burning! -
I don’t have to respect Muhammad, I can disrespect him if it pleases me to do so too. Muhammad & Mohammedans can’t hold a gun to people’s head to force them to respect Muhammad, people can read about him & decide on their own.
I think you’ve misunderstood me. I never intended that particular sentence to mean that people must be forced to respect anybody or anything. Clearly after so long of being pushed around by Muslims to do so (which I think is very wrong) you’re sensitive about it, so please accept my apologies. Indeed you and anybody else has every right to use the mind that we are born with to think logically and critically about everything.
I am not a Muslim anyway (at least in the strict interpretation of what one is). I am someone who believes that “God” is bigger than any way man has sought to limit “Him” through the conduit of religion.
Muhammed did perhaps leave a mark on the world in a way no other person ever has – and created a civilization that, for better or worse I might add, exists to this day. Maybe he should have kept his ideas about religious belief to himself, but I guess he thought that he’d already sussed it all out beforehand so there wouldn’t be a need for anyone else to re-explain it. After that and with his own rising popularity, I guess he discovered that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Who knows what each one of us might have done in his shoes.
Perhaps I’m just a huge Islamic apologist, but I tend to think that Islam is somewhat “salvagable” in the same way Christianity is “salvagable”. Essentially I tend to believe that most religious fanatics haven’t a damn clue as to what the writings of their respective texts really mean in the greater context of the world of reality as we see it. The silent minority have figured it out already and see no need to speak of it I think.
In Islam’s case, as it is said to be a continuation of the text of the Bible, by definition it cannot contradict the teachings of the Bible, and where it does the Quran is either “wrong”, but more likely, our interpretation of it is incorrect. I think a fair leap of mental gymnastics is required to make it fit it with its legacy — just as much as the parables of Jesus require the same from the reader of the Bible… and THAT’S assuming that Jesus even existed …. (not that it matters, Jesus himself, even if he did not exist, is a symbol of humanly perfection to which humanity aims, but was “killed” by God to remind humanity that God does not expect perfection from us.)
To me, God / Allah / Yahweh, call him/it what you will, is simply a mental placeholder to represent all LIFE and existance, and that which we all have (surely we cannot deny that each of us exist). An “infidel” or “non-believer” by my interpretation, would be someone irrespective of their religious affiliation or lack thereof — who is an infidel to all life, hates their own life, has no respect for or belief in the goodness of life, and seeks to poison or destroy it. (A far cry from “infidel=non-muslim” which some Muslims claim to be the case, but I totally disagree with.)
Therefore, by my deifinition, worhsipping God in anagalous with loving life — which even completely irreligious people are capable of.Anyway, that’s just an example of where I’m coming from on this issue. Feel free to agree with me, or rip my argument to shreds. I won’t be offended if I end up learning something.
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I don’t have to respect Muhammad, I can disrespect him if it pleases me to do so too.
If being abusive to Moosaa alaihis salaam(Moses, Peace be upon Him) and Eesaa alaihis salaam (Jesus, Peace be upon Him) pleases a sadist, should his sadistic abuse be tolerated?
Why anyone in any circumstances is ever obliged to insult Moosaa alaihis salaam and Eesaa alaihis salaam?
Does Nonbelief, if it is a religion at all, makes it manadatory to verbally abuse Moosaa alaihis salaam and Eesaa alaihis salaam?So, does anyone have to insult Moosaa alaihis salaam and Eesaa alaihis salaam?Muhammad & Mohammedans can’t hold a gun to people’s head to force them to respect Muhammad, people can read about him & decide on their own.
The right of people to decide on their own is guaranteed in Aayah 256 of Soorah Al Baqarah makes it very clear.
Laa Ikraaha Fid Deen
THERE SHALL BE no coercion in matters of faith.
Muhammad Asad writes in his Tafseer(Exegesis)
The term din denotes both the contents of and the compliance with a morally binding law; consequently, it signifies “religion” in the widest sense of this term, extending over all that pertains to its doctrinal contents and their practical implications, as well as to man’s attitude towards the object of his worship, thus comprising also the concept of “faith”. The rendering of din as “religion”, “faith”, “religious law” or “moral law” (see note 3 on 109:6) depends on the context in which this term is used. – On the strength of the above categorical prohibition of coercion (ikrah) in anything that pertains to faith or religion, all Islamic jurists (fuqaha’), without any exception, hold that forcible conversion is under all circumstances null and void, and that any attempt at coercing a non-believer to accept the faith of Islam is a grievous sin: a verdict which disposes of the widespread fallacy that Islam places before the unbelievers the alternative of “conversion or the sword”.(Quran Ref: 2:256 )
http://honorablequran.com/2.htmBut, a non-Muslim citizen of an Islamic state has to abide by the fundamental law of upholding respect for all the Prophets of God. Because the respect for God and His Prophets is the very basis of God’s Rule. Since, the idea of Temporal Kingdom of God is alien to Western spiritual as well as intellectual tradition, hence, the precise notion of God’s Rule, the limited notion of freedom of religion is of no practical value in the Islamic polity. The fundamental tenet of Respect for God and His Prophets is far more non-negotiable in an ideal Islamic state and society, that is, Temporal God’s Rule, than the tenet of sovereignity of parliament in a parliamentary state and society
The Politics of Islam by Edward Mortimer can elucidate this concept more eloquently.It presents Islam as more than a religion and as a vision of human society which inspires men and women to political action.
Therefore, people do not have a right to disrespect Prophets of God as much as people don’t have to respect Prophets of God under coercion.
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bs says:
I can respect anyone’s religion as long as he/she don’t enforce stuff on others.
But citing from your own holy book will not drive the point home to people not believing in your book. That only works for people believing in the same book as you.Try to come up with other arguments if you wish to convince people.
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andy says:
We had a politician recently come out and attack Scientology as a cult and a criminal organisation. His comments barely caused a ripple yet if he was to substitute the word Scientology for Islam there would have been a virtual uprising amongst our muslim communities. Now let’s look at the facts……How many people have scientologists killed in mass attacks in public places? mmmm none that I can think of, How often are scientologists on TV attacking our western culture while standing in our dole queues expecting us to fund their existance. See you get the gist….Why oh why can’t our people just tell the truth, stop ‘engaging’ with our enemies and feel free to celebrate our culture and all others who are free, democratic and wish to stay that way.
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Nay said
Aside from being the greatest religious and military leader the world has ever seen, he went up to a mountain and found Allah on his own.
He used to hang out in caves on a mountain and pretended to hear voices. Scientific research has found out that the echoes of one’s own voice and movements while being isolated in cave-like structures causes delusions.
@ muhammadelijah
Are you still able to think with your own brains or do you have to consult you holy book each and every time you use your tongue or keyboard? No disrespect but to me it seems as if your mind has been taken over completely by an obsessive compulsion. You are literally breathing the Koran. By reading your posts however I’m beginning to understand how people can commit the most atrocious acts and honestly believe that what they do or believe is ordained by a supreme authority.
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Since most literate Muslims tend to view Western academics as impartial how would you comment on the relative subjectivity of your statements compared to those of a Western academic, Michael H. Hart excerpted from his book-The 100 Most Influential Men in Human History?
Should anyone who concludes Allaah‘s Rasool (sall Alaahu ‘alaihi wasallam) (The Apostle of God, God’s Blessings and Peace be upon Him) is worthy of respect should readily be labelled as ‘unreasonable’ and ‘uncivilised’? That would make the definition of ‘reasonibility’ and ‘civilisation’ very subjective.
Is an objective modus vivendi between the following statements put into comparison is achievable?
I have reached the conclusion that Muhammad was a character extremely unworthy of respect from any reasonable & civilized person
It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.
Extremely subjective, I would rate Buddha & Jesus as head & shoulder above Muhammad as religious leaders.
First, Muhammad played a far more important role in the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament.
It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. On the purely religious level, then, it seems likely that Muhammad has been as influential in human history as Jesus.
As for military leader, your claims are laughable, Chengiz Khan, Alexander the Great are far superior military leaders.
Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular as well as a religious leader. In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time.
Of many important historical events, one might say that they were inevitable and would have occurred even without the particular political leader who guided them. For example, the South American colonies would probably have won their independence from Spain even if Simon Bolivar had never lived. But this cannot be said of the Arab conquests. Nothing similar had occurred before Muhammad, and there is no reason to believe that the conquests would have been achieved without him. The only comparable conquests in human history are those of the Mongols in the thirteenth century, which were primarily due to the influence of Genghis Khan. These conquests, however, though more extensive than those of the Arabs, did not prove permanent, and today the only areas occupied by the Mongols are those that they held prior to the time of Genghis Khan. -
donny…
I’m just curious … help me with this one
what is the requirement to be muslim ?
shada, right ?? only by saying that one become muslim … and of course all of the obligation will followthen how come King Solomon (not prophet, but king), King David (also king, not prophet), Noah, Jesus … all become prophet of Islam, whereas Islam comes many many many centuries later and there are NO PROOF whatsoever that they recite Shahada at all …
how could you say they’re muslims ? honestly, I am confused …
Islaam is Self-surrender unto God, Seeking His Will rather than your own,Keeping His final commandments communicated through the final Prophets.
Ecclesiastes 12:13
Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of manJohn 6:38
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
Deuteronomy 18:18
I will raise up for them a prophet like you[Moses] from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.Brothers here refers to Ishmaelites. Muhammad (sall Allaahu ‘alaihi wasallam) is the most like to Moosaa (alaihis salaam) compared to Eesaa (alaihis salaam), e.g. both had parents, both fought holy wars, both died natural deaths, both married.Moosaa (alaihis salaam) or Moses (Peace be upon Him) was the final Prophet until the advent of Eesaa(alaihis salaam) or Jesus (Peace be upon Him) . Eesaa(alaihis salaam) was the final Prophet until the advent of Muhammad (sall Allaahu ‘alaihi wasallam). Now, after His advent, keeping God’s commandments communicated through him is incumbent upon humanity, every Jew and Christian, because He is a Prophet unto all, and Eesaa(alaihis salaam) on His second coming would affirm his global mission.
Soorah Al A’raaf
Aayah 158
Say [O Muhammad]: “O mankind! Verily, I am an apostle of God to all of you”
http://honorablequran.com/7.htmAayah 128 of Soorah Al Baqarah recalls the collective prayer of Ibraaheem (alaihis salaam) (Abraham) and Ismaaeel (alaihis salaam)(Ishmael) in which they pray to become ‘Muslims’
Aayah 128
Soorah Al Baqarah
O our Sustainer! Make us surrender ourselves unto Thee, and make out of our offspring a community that shall surrender itself unto Thee.
http://honorablequran.com/2.htm -
ET…
You said
He used to hang out in caves on a mountain and pretended to hear voices. Scientific research has found out that the echoes of one’s own voice and movements while being isolated in cave-like structures causes delusions.
Actually only the following Aayaat(Signs or Miracles literally) were revealed in The Ghaar(cave) of Hiraa .
Soorah Al ‘Alaq
Aayaat 1-5
READ in the name of thy Sustainer, who has-
Created man out of a germ-cell [Al ‘Alaq]
Who has taught [man] the use of the pen –
Taught man what he did not know!
http://honorablequran.com/96.htmThe rest of Qur’aan was revealed over a span of more than two decades during preaching missions, journeys and even in the battlefields.
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Nay…
When I read your following statement
I am someone who believes that “God” is bigger than any way man has sought to limit “Him” through the conduit of religion.
it brought something to my attention that I would like to share with you.You would find it interesting.
There is something very unique in Qur’aan about the concept of Allaah that seeks to make him Limitless.
Sooratush Shooraa
Aayah 11
There is nothing like unto Him.
http://honorablequran.com/42.htmSoorah Al An’aam
Aayah 100
Limitless is He is His glory, and sublimely exalted above anything that men may devise by way of definition.
http://honorablequran.com/6.htm -
@muhammadelijah
How about this: for the benefit of the discussion here you limit yourself to one quote from The Book per day. For the rest you try to use your own cognitive functions and cite stuff from books/papers that are accepted by more than one religion/institute.
ET and Donny might as well write a book themselves and counter your stories with a quote from their own book. Expand your horizon man…
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Hi Nay & MdElijah,
Perhaps I’m just a huge Islamic apologist, but I tend to think that Islam is somewhat “salvagable” in the same way Christianity is “salvagable”.
Christianity isn’t “salvagable” its already been salvaged, I speak as an ex Muslim agnostic living in a Christian majority nation. I am no convert to Christianity, but find Christianity & most other religions I’ve studied other religions far preferable to Islam.
Christianity, for all its horrific OT stories, is based on Jesus, whose presentation is quite benign, anyone who wishes to be Christ like will be quite harmless, even if he\she is loon like. 😉
But Islam, is based on Muhammad, believers try to be Muhammad like, where the problem starts.
As Muhammad’s Muslim namesake, Md. Elijah proudly asserts,
Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular as well as a religious leader. In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time.
Of many important historical events, one might say that they were inevitable and would have occurred even without the particular political leader who guided them. For example, the South American colonies would probably have won their independence from Spain even if Simon Bolivar had never lived. But this cannot be said of the Arab conquests. Nothing similar had occurred before Muhammad, and there is no reason to believe that the conquests would have been achieved without him. The only comparable conquests in human history are those of the Mongols in the thirteenth century, which were primarily due to the influence of Genghis Khan. These conquests, however, though more extensive than those of the Arabs, did not prove permanent, and today the only areas occupied by the Mongols are those that they held prior to the time of Genghis Khan.Muhammad, was unlike the Buddha or Jesus, he was a conqueror, a man who personally butchered people a la Chengiz Khan, to achieve his objects, His followers still retain the same hopes.
You can clearly see this even on this thread, wherein Md Elijah is boasting about Muhammad’s direct hand in the bloody Islamic conquests.
Ironically, if I remember correctly, its this same guy Md. Elijah who was whining some months back on the “Quran & hadith” thread in Indonesia Matters, about how Western imperialism damaged Islam, how I should be blaming the West rather than Islam. 😉
The sheer hypocrisy of valorizing Islamic & Muhammad’s imperialism & land stealing, while criticizing the West for the same crime against Muslims, doesn’t strike Muhammad Elijah as anything odd, like it doesn’t strike Muslims as anything odd.
They, having modelled themselves on Muhammad, believe they have the Allah gifted right to steal land from kufr & impose their faith, yet its a grievous offence should someone else do the same to them! 😉
As long as Muhammad’s ugly examply remains the guiding light for Muslims,IMO Islam isn’t salvagable.
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& impose their faith
After my categorical statements substantiated by Scriptural evidence to the contrary, are you just being perverse to misrepresent something you unjustly dislike or should I hope to engage in a civil discourse with a serious intent to learn on both sides?
Christianity, for all its horrific OT stories, is based on Jesus, whose presentation is quite benign, anyone who wishes to be Christ like will be quite harmless, even if he\she is loon like.
Benign and harmless to whom? A Godly person can never tolerate wickedness.
Eesaa (alaihis salaam) would never have tolerated the Wickedness that plagues the Christendom today. Sodomy is prevalent in the US, which is considered a more religious Christian country, by its European counterparst, as is the case in the entire Christendom, now thoroughly subjugated by Antichristian forces.His second coming with sword to lead the Muslim army against Antichrist would affirm his following NT statement.
Matthew 10:34
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”As Muhammad’s Muslim namesake, Md. Elijah proudly asserts,
Your statement needs a correction.These are not my assertions, by the way.I quoted someone who would at least qualify your criteria of ‘reasonibility’ and ‘civilisation’.
Muhammad, was unlike the Buddha or Jesus, he was a conqueror, a man who personally butchered people a la Chengiz Khan, to achieve his objects, His followers still retain the same hopes.
Those predisposed to butchery cannot be expected to forgive the very people who stoned him to the extent that his shoes are said to have stained with blood. Why did he still he pray for The People of Taaif for their spiritual guidance?
On the Conquest of Makkah he forgives the very same people who mutilated the corpse of His paternal uncle Sayyidush Shuhadaa (The Leader of The Matryrs) Hamza (radi Allaahu ‘anhu) in the Battle of Uhud.
He (sall Allaahu ‘alaihi wasallam) only politely requests Wahshi bin Harb (radi Allaahu ‘anhu) who had killed Hamza (radi Allaahu ‘anhu) after the Fat-h(Conquest) to avoid being seen by Him because it recalled the bitter memories of his dear uncle. Today, Muslims recall the names of both Wahshi and Hamza with the same honorific
& impose their faith
After my categorical statements substantiated with Scriptural evidence to the contrary, are you just being perverse to misrepresent something you unjustly dislike or should I hope to engage in a civil discourse with a serious intent to learn on both sides?
Christianity, for all its horrific OT stories, is based on Jesus, whose presentation is quite benign, anyone who wishes to be Christ like will be quite harmless, even if he\she is loon like.
Benign and harmless to whom? A Godly person can never tolerate wickedness.
Eesaa (alaihis salaam) would never have tolerated the Wickedness that plagues the Christendom today. Sodomy is prevalent in the US, which is considered a more religious Christian country, as is the case in the entire Christendom, now thoroughly subjugated by Antichristian forces.His second coming with sword to lead the Muslim army against Antichrist would affirm his following NT statement.
Matthew 10:34
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”As Muhammad’s Muslim namesake, Md. Elijah proudly asserts,
Your statement needs a correction.These are not my assertions, by the way.I quoted someone who would at least qualify your criteria of ‘reasonibility’ and ‘civilisation’.
Muhammad, was unlike the Buddha or Jesus, he was a conqueror, a man who personally butchered people a la Chengiz Khan, to achieve his objects, His followers still retain the same hopes.
Those predisposed to butchery cannot be expected to forgive the very people who stoned him to the extent that his shoes are said to have stained with blood. Why did he still he pray for The People of Taaif for their spiritual guidance?
On the Conquest of Makkah he forgives the very same people who mutilated the corpse of His paternal uncle Sayyidush Shuhadaa (The Leader of The Matryrs) Hamza (radi Allaahu ‘anhu) in the Battle of Uhud.
He (sall Allaahu ‘alaihi wasallam) only politely requests Wahshi bin Harb (radi Allaahu ‘anhu) who had killed Hamza (radi Allaahu ‘anhu) after the Fat-h(Conquest) to avoid being seen by Him because it recalled the bitter memories of his martyred dear uncle. He could have been sentenced to death but wasn’t.Today, Muslims recall both of them Wahshi and Hamza with the same honorific radi Allaahu ‘anhu which stands for May God be pleased with him.
to achieve his objects
I would like you to enumerate a few. The people of Makkah had earlier percieved His (sall Allaahu ‘alaihi wasallam) mission not as a global and eternal Godly mission but a mere bid to power. They offered him leadership in a bid to negotiate a compromise with their idolatry, but why didn’t He?
Ironically, if I remember correctly, its this same guy Md. Elijah who was whining some months back on the “Quran & hadith” thread in Indonesia Matters, about how Western imperialism damaged Islam, how I should be blaming the West rather than Islam.
Had they represented the Sword of Eesaa (alaihis salaam) or God’s Kingdom, for which every Godly human aspires, I would have welcomed them. But, Western Imperialism just like Crusades wasn’t even remotely connected to a Holy War between Good and Evil, it was never a bid to rule by God’s Law. Your ‘agnosticism’ something unitelligible for intellectually fulfilled Muslims suffices to corroborate The Evil, The Iniquity, and The Wickedness inherent in The West and colonialism became the vehicle that brought this iniquity to the Muslim world. Owing to the rational appeal and philosophical consistency inherent to Islam, the conversion of an intellectually fulfilled Muslim is absolutely impossible. That explains very well that priests and rabbis throughout Islamic history coming to Islam has always outnumbered and would continue to do so compared to ‘Ulamaa throughout Islamic history apostatising to Christianity or Judaism.
For reasons of impartiality, I would quote here a ‘reasonable’ and ‘civilised’ individual which would at least fulfil the subjective criteria of Fawzia to put my thoughts more eloquently as I happen to be a non-native speaker of English, inspite of the fact that I completely disgaree with Ignaz Goldziher on some of his assertions.
“In those weeks, I truly entered into the spirit of Islam to such an extent that ultimately I became inwardly convinced that I myself was a Muslim, and judiciously discovered that this was the only religion which, even in its doctrinal and official formulation, can satisfy philosophic minds. My ideal was to elevate Judaism to a similar rational level. Islam, as my experience taught me, is the only religion, in which superstitious and heathen ingredients are not frowned upon by rationalism, but by orthodox doctrine.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Goldziher -
Christianity, for all its horrific OT stories, is based on Jesus, whose presentation is quite benign, anyone who wishes to be Christ like will be quite harmless, even if he\she is loon like. 😉
But Islam, is based on Muhammad, believers try to be Muhammad like, where the problem starts.
I do agree that Islam has a bit of an image problem in that regard… but let’s not judge religions based on the actions of their followers. Take any belief system you like, there ARE going to be people who get the precepts completely wrong and run amok. It’s unfortunate that the more intelligent and enlightened Muslim minority don’t speak out enough against those who tarnish Islam’s reputation… but then a newspaper headline of “Man finds enlightenment” doesn’t make for good media copy. Plus the owners of the world’s media would much rather have us kill each other off to make them even more wealthy.
There are a heck of a lot of Christians who honestly believe that God is a figure who hangs in the sky distant from humanity who is going to blow the planet up at some unspecified date, and a undead-zombie called Jesus is going to float back down to earth to rule it. It’s utterly ridiculous, and comes from a complete misunderstanding of the precepts and symbolism of Christianity … and this is where you get your American mid-west Christian loonies from.
Similarly, you find armchair Muslims getting the concept of jihad completely wrong and going too far with it, which is where we end up with “Muslim” terrorists. It may just so happens that misunderstanding the Quran is more likely to be highly dangerous.I can see how agnosticism or atheism makes no sense to a Muslim. Once you get the definition of “God” correct (God being all manifestations of “life”), it’s pretty hard to deny “His” existence because we all would not exist without God. We would not have life. I would not be sitting at a keyboard typing this in. In order to deny God (a true infidel), you would have to deny your own existence (and people who do that usually find themselves “in hell” and kill themselves anyway)
Atheism or agnosticism is basically an acknowledgement that the “sky god” definition is most likely false (which it is), without making any attempt to reconcile or develop the human “spirit” (or will to live) in my opinion.Soorah Al An’aam
Aayah 100
Limitless is He is His glory, and sublimely exalted above anything that men may devise by way of definition.I believe the Quran is correct here. Unfortunately it also seems to me that if this is true, Islam cannot claim to be “the only” religion, because Islam would therefore be a limited construct of worshipping Allah, and will always fall short! (In a sense, making us all “sinners”) Islam, along with other religions, would be like blind people trying to describe an elephant purely based on the part that they are touching!
That seems to me like a humble acknowledgement of submission, because it opens a “Pandora’s box” of sorts.
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Oigal says:
Once you get the definition of “God” correct (God being all manifestations of “life”), it’s pretty hard to deny “His” existence because we all would not exist without God. We would not have life. I would not be sitting at a keyboard typing this in.
I seem to be typing ok with him/her/it/them/those
As for “will to live” worms have that but evolution has given me the will to anticipate a nice dinner tonight.
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I seem to be typing ok with him/her/it/them/those
As for “will to live” worms have that but evolution has given me the will to anticipate a nice dinner tonight.
And more power to you 😉
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🙂
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Islam is dangerous, rather than exotic, thats where the appeal lies for many people! 🙂
Its like the attraction women feel for bad, sometimes even abusive men, v. the nice guys!
Its another way of rebelling, especially for many women.
One way of rebelling is getting eating disorders, getting drunk, another is getting a hijab & a burkini!
I know some such White women who migrated to Iran,had a very rude awakening!
That is also where the appeal of Islam lies for many Western men or women, even those who don’t end up converting, they’re filled with White guilt for colonizations, invasions, racist pasts & whatnot!
Then they feel some sort of satisfaction in sympathizing with Islam.
Ironically, Islamic history too is replete with these sins, which these converts or Islamophile whiteys seek to negate or minimize!
I met a German convert to Islam in USA(husband of a German Turk), who was telling me that Armenian Americans should stop trying to seek recognition of the Armenian Genocide & let bygones be bygones, & at the same time saying how horrible Germany’s Nazi history is & every White like him should be eternally guilty! 😉
I feel sorry for these victims of Islam, be it the 2 old Black eunuch ex slaves I saw in Saudi or the Armenians, Zoroastrians & whoever else, not only does Islam not apologize for its past, but these Islamophiles are busy denying their pain as well!