What is Racism?
Sep 22nd, 2008, in Asides, by PatungI am getting tired of discussions constantly drifting into the areas we see below, cut from the effeminate men post.
I titled this post “What is Racism?” because, hmm, some stereotypes about different peoples are actually true, and in scientific terms a stereotype must be true, or else it isn’t a stereotype…But I don’t know if there is some formula that determines at what point the exceptions to the rule become so numerous that the stereotype breaks down and has to be abandoned.
I generally don’t like accusations of “racist” and “racism” being thrown around, they are substitutes for thought and argument, or they attempt to stop thought and argument, but I don’t think I’m alone in getting weary at some people constantly carping about Chinese or Anglos, or whoever…
This is the original bit by Purba Negoro which sparked the following off:
Indosiar is also Chinese owned. UNsurpisingly its’ content is facile, derivative, cheap and trite- outirght plagiarisms of better Western models and the lowest possible investment for highest possible profit-wan, aiya- exemplify fondly held Chinese values- the love of tinsel and trinkets.
Metro TV is owned by Pak Paulo. The quality of the station is far superior than profit-at-any-cost typical Chinese penny-dreadfuls. Just like their Tempo and Jakarta Post- self-serving or self-aggrandising pulp fictions.
306 Comments on “What is Racism?”
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concerned says:
@janma:
“Udah goblok, belagu lagi!”
you mean if someone’s smart, they can be “belagu”?@Aluang anak bayang:
“My 1st job was at a Chinese restaurant at 16 years of age for 3 weeks. None of the other kitchen workers’ wages was tax declared because the Chinese owner want to save some dime.”
chinese? in which country? china? malaysia? indonesia? are they chinese? malaysian chinese? indonesian chinese?
are you saying that the restaurant owner lower your wages just because your skin color is different? isn’t that racism? -
dragonwall says:
No 1. he hatex Chinese, 2. He said his religion reign supreme. 3, He is trying to say he was paid x amount of money and that to justify that he might be underpaid he is pointing the golden finger and say the boss was not paying tax. See this is what it is being termed as ungrateful. He went to Australia to study not he is lickspittle them by making all sorts of putdowns and insults but continue to use words like others are behaving like a Motley Crue of the uncultured Brits.
THIS IS A WHOLE NEW MEANING OF RACISM
He can’t stand the success of others.
He can’t stand the achievements of others.
He won’t admit that the Chinese helped him and in order to hide his guise he started discriminating the Chinese.
He won’t admit he was given a helping hand by the Australians in allowing him to study there so he started all sorts of putdowns and insults by covering it with smoke screen.to understand him, read carefully what he wrote.. I am still waiting for more of them to come
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@fullmoonflower: according to Rob, PN has military background, right? maybe that’s why he’s a racist.. he’s been brainwashed(brown target : don’t shoot! yellow target & white target : shoot!) i guess that’s why blind-color people can’t get into the army 😀 (note: i know not all officer are racist)
i have friends in semarang and yogyakarta, and they’re not racist like PN -
This guy is very likely the person in the photo. That is Prabowo himself. If he is not then PN is a fake.
If it is him then this guy (to what I know he has Chinese blood in him) does not admit he is Chinese. He speaks english. He was trained in the US. He used to be the golden boy of the Pentagon and works very closely with the CIA and DOS.
They were racist no doubt. I used to see that guy Prabowo often going in and out of Mulia Hotel (owned by a Chinese) and yet they were racist. These people had no balls to admit.
Of course there are many who are not racist but except a few extremist..PN is one of that exception.
When you speak english it does not make you British or Americans, so is when you speaks Javanese it does not necessarily makes him a pribumi. -
Cukurungan says:
The fact that CHINA MAN surely do not want to live and not appealing to stay in Indon.
You can say anything but the fact speak by itself that there is only few Chinese Indonesia who want to emigrate back to China Mainland and most of them is criminal ….but in other hand there are still million ordinary Chinese who happily live in here with us …….because they know exactly the dangerous of their own kind
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
dragonwall Says:
October 10th, 2008 at 4:16 am
This guy is very likely the person in the photo. That is Prabowo himself. If he is not then PN is a fake.
If it is him then this guy (to what I know he has Chinese blood in him) does not admit he is Chinese. He speaks english. He was trained in the US. He used to be the golden boy of the Pentagon and works very closely with the CIA and DOS.
They were racist no doubt. I used to see that guy Prabowo often going in and out of Mulia Hotel (owned by a Chinese) and yet they were racist. These people had no balls to admit.
Of course there are many who are not racist but except a few extremist..PN is one of that exception.
When you speak english it does not make you British or Americans, so is when you speaks Javanese it does not necessarily makes him a pribumi.LOL. After more than a few dozen exchanges, you now realise he is the real Mc Coy. This goes to show how well your judgement is. I laughed my head off when you bragged about who you lunched and played golf with. Will get back on the postings tonight.
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And accident is an accident, whether China or India is going to have a big flood it needs no prediction. If they did not mend their waterways and others, they will still meet the same situation. A 5 year old kid will tell you it will. Indonesia is also the same.
The mine coal accident is a man made accident and it can be avoided if China government willing to improve their mining safety or purchase safer energy from overseas but China Government prefer to sacrifice their labors under un-safe underground mine coal. All they think is about how much money they can safe to finance gigantic project while without touching real need of ordinary China like Olympic Game and Walking on space. Indonesia mining accident is no exception some time also occured but even you do not want to know Indonesia safety mining record is much better than China.
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You are really so smart as to sum up that the Chinese Government were trying to safe to finance the Olympic? Do you know how much is the cost of staging that Olympic comparing to the coal mine.
Have you been to a coal mine? You may know more about borrrrrring but for coal mine!..Hmmm.
Right that is why there were someone who says you pick and choose, so is this?
After more than a few dozen exchanges, you now realise he is the real Mc Coy. This goes to show how well your judgement is. I laughed my head off when you bragged about who you lunched and played golf with. Will get back on the postings tonight.
Kampungan. This is a coward and I suppose people like you behaves more like him. The only way is to determine whether he is a decoy or a McCoy.
Not forgetting we are still waiting for Indonesian doomsday like he promise come November 4th 2008.
Or perhaps he is trying to find time to get prepared for his greatest envision by rewriting history in what Indonesia will have another holocaust.
He speaks english. He was trained in the US. He used to be the golden boy of the Pentagon and works very closely with the CIA and DOS.
Cowards and munafik. Get right to where the Q&A is.
Iceland was declared bankrupt..Rolling Stones lost all his investments there. When is your turn..in Indonesia… create another riot..rob the Chinese.. make yourself rich..
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Purba Negoro says:
Janma:
totally wrong.
The Guzheng is a plucked, half-tube zither with movable bridges and 21 strings, although it can have anywhere from 15 to 25 strings (a customized version exists with more than 44 strings.
It is played transverse with a common tremolo plucking style.The Javanese siter sits on four feet.
The oldest variant of kacapi is shaped like an upside down boat with wooden pegs. Always an even number of strings, with 18-20 strings, arranged on a 5-tone scale: laras salendro Sunda.
Kacapi rests on the floor- strings parallel to the players’ arms, the player seated on a floor-cushion.Guzheng and Koto are on tables, the player on a stool, stings at right angles to the player.
Then the playing style is totally divergent to almost all dulcimers, guzhengs, kotos and such zithers etc: no plectrum is used, the right hand fingernails are grown, or bufflao-horn plectrums wrapped onto the fingers, a la Spanish guitar flicking like respigho” forward as the left middle finger pulls back.
Additionally the construction is different. The Kacapi originally and still is rather primitive (albeit effective)- a hollow block of wood- shaped intentionally like the very important Sunadnese origin-myth regarding of Tangkuban Perahu- the famous Sundanese upturned-boat Mountain.
The guzheng and koto are far more sophisticated in construction- using sophisticated cabinet-work box making.
Some kacapi are made by gluing six plates of wood together like the Javanese siter. Then the Portuguese and Dutch folk instruments like dulcimer were very influential- this is why we have keroncong with biola and contra basso.
According to lecturers at STSI- the siter is sinuously descended from the cithara the ancient Greek lyre with resonator box, if not native conceived (like the primitive kacapi perahu)- most likely arriving from Islamic Gujarati India- name kept from the Persian originators (continuing the Greek lyre tradition).
However all Indian and Chinese instruments have some similarities- whether or not they have a mutual source or they are parallel inventions is lost to time and totally speculative.
Now- the guzheng is tuned to equal temperament.
the kacapi is always tuned to laras salendro, da-ma-na-ti-laAssuming Chinese did introduce the Guzheng, it makes no sense that the playing style, technique and seating position were totally changed. The Chinese favour sustained notes via tremolo- kacapi is known for its’ complex polyrhythmic and hemiola plucking.
Then, we should consider Chinese instrument classification- based on instrument construction materials:
silk, bamboo, wood, stone, metal, clay, gourd and hide.The Javanese differs: classifying instruments according to sound production: siteren, gamelan (gamel- to hit/struck), kendangan, pesindhenan etc
The Sundanese system of instrument categorisation is identical. The point being, if Chinese were truly so influential- the categorisation system would also be prevalent. It is not.
The Chinese introduced guzheng as kin into Japan in the 7th Century. Borobudur reliefs clearly illustrate Clempung being played at right angles to the performer- exactly as the modern-day.
If Chinese did introduce that instrument- the playing style would have been replicated and depicted on Borobudur reliefs.
But it is not.Now with regard to gunpowder:
According to the text:
“A History of Greek Fire and Gunpowder”, by James Riddick Partington, Bert S. Hall page xxvi states: , “Chinese did not in fact include calcium nitrate to react with potash to form potassium nitrate”- potassium nitrate is the fundamental oxidiser required for explosive combustion.Furthermore, this books states, Roger Bacon’s Opus Tertium circa 1250 describes “children’s toys the size of a thumb burning brighter than lightening and louder than thunder”, which according to page xxiii- the Chinese were using gunpowder solely for temple and religious purposes- like the little bangers still used today.
Chinese traditional gunpowder lacks the potassium nitrate of the Western martial kind, using indtead SODIUM NITRATE- a very different oxidising chemical.Military gunpowder is of course potassium nitrate, charcoal and sulfphur.
The French scholar Lalanne concludes Greek Fire was actually modern gunpowder- invented by the Greeks 490 AD.Jamna- you are trying to match wits with someone who has the complete set of Javanese pelog and slendro Gamelan, as well as Gamelan Siter and Sunda and is a current patron of STSI. I have the full Mangkungearan wayang kulit set as well as the Jogja set- the connoisseur knows the many subtle differences.
I learnt piano up to final level Royal College Music grading system, can play every instrument including the rebab and bonang very well and I have comissioned several art-works of Javanese Gamelan.
My very good friends’ great-aunt is one of Indonesia’s most famous art patrons- having launched many international standard Indonesian painting and sculpture artists.Your trite, glaringly incomplete bule knowledge is no match for the orang Jawa mulia: orang purba negoro.
Wong Jawa- wong terbukti pun Pangestwriya negeri ne. -
deng says:
there is only few Chinese Indonesia who want to emigrate back to China Mainland and most of them is criminal
thanks, likewise is even worse case that .. there are zero Javanese huakiaw living in Suriname want to go back to their kampung in Java, in this case all Javanese Suriname are servant, waiters, maids, lower society class. The fact it is better becoming Javanese slave in Suriname under Dutch than go back kampung halaman, is indeed a tragic situation isn’t ?
I said, chinese indonesia who no longer able to speak & lost his chinese tradition are consider inlander in my view, I never regard them as chinese anymore because of unable to speak their mother tounge. So, your interpretation are wrong to me, sorry.
I said before, indonesian chinese hv only 2 options,
– be proficient speaks chinese for whatever the cost & efforts and practise the tradition again then get out from Indon or
– maintain $oeharto’s rules in order for assimilation become indegineus to adopt islam and to marry locals in order breeding like animals as you said it is goodThere is no in between the 2 options above, or I will say the chinese indonesian is the weakest chinese huakiaw in the world.
Who say not dare to leave Indon ? stupid moron -
janma says:
I learnt piano up to final level Royal College Music grading system, can play every instrument including the rebab and bonang very well and I have comissioned several art-works of Javanese Gamelan.
so did I….. what does that mean!? absolutely nothing…. I also graduated from the Royal Melbourne College of Music in Piano….. means nothing! You blow into you own sails alot! just listen to betawi music and kecapi music, it’s totally based on the same principles of chinese music, it even sounds chinese….. the scale for indian music is totally different, you don’t need to be some high brow bullsh*t artist “i went to uni’ type to hear most kecapi music and relate the sound to china… it’s nothing like indian music…
Then, we should consider Chinese instrument classification- based on instrument construction materials:
silk, bamboo, wood, stone, metal, clay, gourd and hide.we should not! it’s not to do with just construction materials… it’s about the roots of the music played….. If you want to talk construction, a sitar from india has a gourd end of story…. uses different techniques and a totally different musical system…. Indonesia calls just about any kecapi like instrument a citar memang…. that doesn’t mean that’s where they came from, although I’m sure a sitar was bought to indonesia by indians quite early on, same as the zither from china… Indonesians have a habit of calling all camera’s kodaks, no matter what the make. doesn’t mean they actually have anything to do with kodaks….
You’re the kind self overrated gengsi fool that would by his wife a grand piano when all she really wanted was an upright organ……
and I hope you notice, that I can argue from an intellectual viewpoint, not needing to drown my argument in personal insults and racial slurs…. it just proves what sort of person you are…… that’s all hon.
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Mets says:
Reading the last few postings…isn’t it becoming apparant through other cultures and influences today’s society benefits the best and the worst of a situation….
Do we not need to accept that the formation of our society today has been influenced by other nations and by denying this we are dismissing other races that played an impact in our past, which we could fall foul in denying what was achieved by our forefathers…
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Andy says:
We hear a lot from Indonesian bloggers here throwing around the whitey slur and of course we have an enormous amount of anti-chinese racism here too but let’s hear what ‘browny’ has to say about ‘blackey’.
Because all bules know that ‘browny’ feels far surperior to ‘blackey’ in most cases. Examples i’ve seen are fathers angry with schools for employing African American teachers. Comments like ‘I don’t want this monkey near my son / daughter’ are not uncommon. Now ‘blackey’ could be a harvard graduate with multiple honours but in the food chain ‘browney’ is superior in their eyes.
Withing Indonesia itself i’ve had bule friends with girlfriends from places such as Timor, Papua and Flores and the slurs and innuendo they receive in shopping malls is beyond belief. Probably a reason why these parts suffer the most discrimination. That and they tend to be christian, not muslim. So let’s focus on this very common racism in Indonesia which hasn’t been discussed as much as the browny vs whitey / cheenaman type of racism.
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Achmad Sudarsono says:
@ Janma, Purbo,
The Ukulele has more soul, baby. I graduated from the Purbalingga bus station doing pengamen. 🙂
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there are zero Javanese huakiaw living in Suriname want to go back to their kampung in Java, in this case all Javanese Suriname are servant, waiters, maids, lower society class. The fact it is better becoming Javanese slave in Suriname under Dutch than go back kampung halaman, is indeed a tragic situation isn’t ?
the Javanese Slave brought to Suriname by Dutch and not because of their own will and right now the Javanese slave have been living as free and normal citizen and there are no Javanese slave anymore. So there is no tragic situation and good reason for them to force them going back to Java. Indeed Javanese is very simple human, they do not need much in this world and they do not need money to bribe officer in the afterlife like your kind and it is only stupid human who cannot live peacefully with this simple people.
Withing Indonesia itself i’ve had bule friends with girlfriends from places such as Timor, Papua and Flores and the slurs and innuendo they receive in shopping malls is beyond belief.
No wonder because many the bule man is very enthusiastic to f***ck any kind of hole ….they do not care …they can f**ck any kind of holes ..black hole, brown hole, yelow hole, dirty hole, smelly hole, woman hole, boy hole whatever hole as long it is hole they do not hesitate to strike on it .
Probably a reason why these parts suffer the most discrimination.
That and they tend to be christian, not muslim. So let’s focus on this very common racism in Indonesia which hasn’t been discussed as much as the browny vs whitey / cheenaman type of racismBecause the discusion will be very sort and conclusive that the brown people treatment to their fellow countrymen is far more better than the white ausii handle their aboriginal brother of the true land owner of Australia.
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Patrick says:
@ Cukurugan – Do you really feel that way about all whites? Sad! I say that because you seem like a sensative enough person and you recognize the discrimination that Javanese and Aborigines have experienced but it is easy to detect your utter disdain for Caucasions. People are people, all flesh and blood, the skin is only the outer layer. Treat people the way you yourself would like to be treated even if it means treating white people with occasional kindness. We should do the same. Makes for a better world!
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cukurungan-Because the discusion will be very sort and conclusive that the brown people treatment to their fellow countrymen is far more better than the white ausii handle their aboriginal brother of the true land owner of Australia.
woops I must have missed something here….So do Papuans and other ‘darker’ skinned christian Indonesians receive- land rights, study allowances (more than other ethnic groups), public housing, university places, government funded organisations etc…And why don’t the aboriginals want to leave our nation and / or secede and form their own nation? Why do the Papuans experience torture and mistreatment at the hands of the javanese and furthermore why did the government send javanese transmigrants on their land?
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Patrick,
any chance of whitey practicing what he preaches without his self-appointed moral arbiter smugness and double standards?
Funny how whitey pouts and stamps his feet when racism is finally redirected back at him- not a pleasant fit is the shoe on the other foot?Janma-
I never said the Chinese and Indian scalers (raga) are same- just allusions that some academic commentators speculate they share a root source- common of the over-arching asingle-source creation myth the human in all of his wishes to find- high brow art appreciator or not.
The scale system, string number and the playing style gives it away as being never introduced by Chinese- it is perpendicular to how Guzheng, kin, koto and kayum-gan/koyum-go are played.
Superificialty of sound means nothing at all.But, Ravel (concerto pour le maine guache?), Debussy and Berlioz, all validate the inarguable superiorty of Javanese music over the crude superficial complexity of the substandard competitors: “Fair is foul and foul is fair with Indian and Chinese music” and
Chinese music:“We have said nothing respecting Oriental music; and for this reason. All that we have so far gathered from travellers respecting this subject is confined to informal puerilities; lacking all relation to the ideas to which we attach the term “music.” In default of information both new and opposed on all points to that which we have acquired, we must regard music among the Oriental peoples as merely a grotesque noise, analogous to that of children at play.”
Gamelan beleganjur often superficially sounds like Turkish Jinassary music or even Western Martial music- are they related?
Not aside from the most superficial.Nashi Chinese music sounds a lot like Scottish fiddle- are they related?
No- a claimed single origin source would represent a projection of a very deep human origin mythIs Japanese No theatre recitation related to Wayang Kuilt- even though many very similar sounds and stylised speech?
No. Only the uneducated and ignorant of fact would claim such a thing.Sundanese music is actually far more cloesly like Javanese celempung in gamelan siter for kawi recited poetry.
But not all bules have had full acess to Javanese art-music- aside from recordings available by Peripuls, Gramedia or Times- so who can blame their often amusing ignorace and outlandish ignorant claims not supported y even their own nations academic scholastic material?
Just because Spanish eat fried rice- does that mean the Chinese invented it and imported it?
No of course not- that’s specious argument formed by leaps of logic tied to proving emotive belief- exactly like the Sinophiles ludicrous 1492- 5000 ft Treasure Fleets sail to Mars.
Unsubstantiated by fact, evidence and closer scientific/empirical evaluation.Parallel inventions- are manifold: like Bacon’s KaNO3 gunpowder (basically modern day blackpowder) versus Chinese NaNO3 gunpowder (manufactured using a far more basic process- using readily harvested raw materials- no secondary processes- it’s called slow-burn powder)
As per Personal slurs- you drew first blood. I merely said your knowledge was lacking and incomplete. And I have proven this. In Javanese fencing- no quarter given, none asked.
And as per Gengsi- you’ve painted yourself into a corner.
No one can excel at gengsi and cari muka like the Cheenaman.
How many times have you seen Encik2 with enormous hair and hands bedazzled with flashy rings of crystal and quartz?
McMansions ad Lippo Karawaci built on swamps?But of course- how common for emotively volatile insecure women to make the cliched erection or genital size slur?
Likely frustrated outbursts are projections of problems much closer to home: Koh Janma’s petit wizened lapcheow like a salami tossed into Janma’s fishmongers’ cupboard. -
@ PN – Believe it or not I have been stabbed, hit over the head from behind with a bottle, and had a hand gun pushed into my forehead because I was white. New York City can be a tough place to grow up when you go to a high school and your a member of a small minority. You don’t have anything to teach me about racism. But that was the past and I really never think about that too much because I am too into being in the present. Things are now allot better here in the USA for everyone though far from perfect!
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Only in America, hmm?
And the US looks down their nose at the rest of the world?
Obviously Mirror-mirror on the wall reflects not what the viewer likes to see- willful suspension of reality?I will admit- I hated Detroit, even Syracuse NY was a shocker too- I was horrified. I have never seen such mindless destruction- and complacent poverty worse than the worst of Soweto.
Don’t get me started on the Mexicans in Southern California- they are as ruthless as any Sandanista/Medellan lunatic.
I was asked to check up on two former superior’s sons living in San Diego (tons of Indonesians there) at USD, another at UCLA.
I toured Timor, and compared to such a hostile free-fire warzone of murderous gangsters and guerrillas, it felt much safer than the US.And this the answer to Communism?
I think I’d take the Gulag Archiplego, no rights and working in a Siberian silo for the next few decades to the US’ Disney land of home-shopping network, Latino gang-turf wars and meth-lab/crack-house neighbourhoods, thanks very much.
Your country is insane, with sparse isolated patches of questionable marginal sanity.Well- hopefully no harm done. Thankfully racism/chauvisnim/ intolerance in Indonesia- although obviously alive and well in all corners- is generally not violent aside from lame schoolyard punch-ups.
I’ve never heard of heard of guns being drawn even in the worst fights or falling outs amongst gangsters. Usually if some gangster is killed- it’s very quiet.
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Andy- in short Yes.
The governor of Irian Jaya is Irian.
Another prominent Irian politican’s face is all over Singapore’s Parkway Cancer Centre’s promo newsletter’s.Universitas Cendrawasih has exchange programs with UI, Dipnegoro, Gadja Mada etc
There are many affirmative action programs for the free development, subsidised living and education of all less developed outer regions, including Sumbanese, Flores-ese, Malukun, Sulawesi etc.
The largest population of Irian outside Irian Jaya is in Central Java studying in either Gadjah Mada or others in Yogya.
Any quick search of an Indonesian government website will find all these answers you are so keen to find Andy.The torture claim etc are all lies. There is no proof whatsoever aside from dubous, spurious hearsay and gossip./
If such liducirous and amusing accusations were true- not the fantasy of agitator NGO’s: your SAS would be very much implicated and video/photographically documented as keen participants.But- it doesn’t happen- so it’s a non issue.
Sadly we lack the same level of money as Australians happily waste on their able bodied, workshy, multi-dad with cable TV happily spurting out variously fathered progeny for government handouts
Once again Andy- you’ve shown yourself up to be an ignoramus
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timdog says:
Andy:
And why don’t the aboriginals want to leave our nation and / or secede and form their own nation?
… jeezus Andy… jeezus fricken krais olmaitee…
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@Pubra – Your commentray on life in America has touches of truth as I have seen the poverty and despair that you speak about as well. During the years I have travelled at one time or another to almost every major city in the USA and California is one majical place aside the Gangbangers you already alluded to in your post. For the most part it pretty safe here as most people avoid areas that are designated high crime areas.
You know, I have a couple of questions for you. Why do you think so many Indonesians come to the USA despite the horrible conditions of the country? If Indonesia is really better for them why do they prefer to stay here even if illegally? Thanks!
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Patrick, as we know the number of people living in poverty in the USA is still a pretty small minority. But there are 300 million odd people so it seems quite a lot when you see panhandlers on the streets. Indonesia measures poverty rather differently but with close to half the population living on less than $2 a day I think we can see the reason why Indonesians are pretty desperate to live outside their country. Even the middle class would rather flip burgers at McD or BK for a few bucks an hour rather than work in a pretty good office job for $200 a month.
timdog, how about addressing the entire comment, not just the parts of mine you don’t like. Indigenous Australians live far better than Indonesian minorities. That is a fact. Prove otherwise. That was my point, the comment you copied and pasted was just a side issue, not meant to be taken seriously. Purba’s comment about no torture is crap. Why are foreigners (particularly journalists) under such scrutiny there? And please don’t tell me that’s an NGO lie too.
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Patrick
I have no idea. As I undestand- Indonesians are a tiny portion of America’s illegal alien problem.Does your nation not have over 12 million Mexicans unaccounted for being employed by mid to large corporations for econmic motives of cheap disposable non unionised labour?
Perhaps these alien Indonesians are just criminals and economically motivated turds on the run?
California is known home to several Chinese Indonesian white-collar criminals who have stolen millions, and in one case billions from Indonesia’s State coffers- including Salim and at one stage David Nusa.
Personally- I belive no one has any right to another’s nation simply because they are unemployed or less attractively employed at home.
Pity the Indians, Chinese and Mexicans seem to belive they have the god-given right to steal another man’s job. -
This guy thinks that the US government are that stupid as though they did not make background check on the person transferring millions if not billions into the US.
The INS law will not accept any person with criminal background to be admitted into the US what say you.
There are tens of millions of immigrants from over 100 countries that come into the US.
Mexiacan and Indians (Native) occupy most sector the the government office and they were given the rights to that so does that mean they are also stealing other’s jobs? After all part of USA belongs to them before the US government took over with agreements made.
Viets, Hongkies have their own sector os business so does that mean they are also stealing other’s jobs? The migrating Indians have their 7-11 and convenient stores, the Koreans have their own so does the Chinese. Does that mean when they start their own business and some employs local, they are stealing other’s jobs?What about people coming into Indonesia to invest and are working in Indonesia, are they stealing Indonesian jobs?
What about you, please enlightened us as to how many company or organizations you have that employs Chinese or others besides the Pris. -Zip- Zero-O OO O O O O
Perhaps you feel that these people needs to bring the money into Indonesia and left them to be run by pris? or Indonesians? or You and your cronies?You are all about as racist as one can find, nothing else.
A person so engross in TV dinners and glued your face to CNN and ABC for your new comments.
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Well,
Dragonwall you really have painted yourself into a corner with your Tabloid gleaned knowledge.No- the INS does not perform routine checks- this is one of it’s many criticisms that under Bush Snr, Bush JKnr and Clinton forcible and undemocratic liberalization of the population has occurred for the motivation of ease of hire/fire and limitless non-unionised cheap labour pool.
The fact is the US has been haven for many crminals- local and imported.
Including Osama bin Laden.
David Nusa
Eddy Tansil
SalimAnother one:
Qin Hong, a suspect who defrauded an investment amounting to several hundred million US dollars, escaped out of China from Shanghai in 1993 and the Chinese government had requested help from the US side to arrest Qin.
Peter Tham Wing Fai (born in 1949[1]) was a Singaporean stockbroker and the director of Pan-Electric Industries. A failure by him to observe a forward contract agreement that he negotiated with Tan Koon Swan was responsible for the company’s collapse in 1985.[2]
Tham left Singapore in 1984, before Pan-El collapsed. In April 1986, he was traced to Seattle in the United States by FBI officials
Tan Ng Poh Meng In 1988, he was charged with insider trading for purchasing 1 million shares in Sealion Hotels
After his conviction, Ng moved to Vancouver, B.C.Abdul Rasyid, an Indonesian businessman, has denied illegal logging of hardwoods such as ramin and balau in the protected Tanjung Puting national park. He was named by the Indonesian government in a list of individuals suspected of involvement in the trade. The country’s forestry ministry alleged that he organized the trade in illegal timber, in an operation which the EIA said was overseen from Hong Kong and involved middlemen in Singapore.
here:
Then what of all the spies?
This could fill a series of books alone.
Like a compendium on your stupidity- a work in 80 volumes. -
Like a compendium work otherwise.. And you mean.
The fact is the US has been haven for many crminals- local and imported.
Including Osama bin Laden.
David Nusa
Eddy Tansil
SalimThese people are in the US????? How f**k**g ignorant you are talking sh*t.
Osama tops the list of wanted, David Nusa, Salim is not..Eddy Tansil owns the beck’s beer in Indonesia and where is he in now..Qin Hong, a suspect who defrauded an investment amounting to several hundred million US dollars, escaped out of China from Shanghai in 1993 and the Chinese government had requested help from the US side to arrest Qin.
So I see you have s Shanghainese friend who have squandered that much money from the Chinese Government and you said ..requested help from US..so let them do the work.. it is not for you to worry.
Immigration Laws in the US changes and keeps changing to cover loopholes.. and so
Peter Tham Wing Fai (born in 1949[1]) was a Singaporean stockbroker and the director of Pan-Electric Industries. A failure by him to observe a forward contract agreement that he negotiated with Tan Koon Swan was responsible for the company’s collapse in 1985.[2]
So who is Tan Koon Swan? Who is Jeyaratnam?
You talk so much about politics that you forget you also let politics play on you. Sometimes it is the politics that sets the playoff and according to the Immigration Law in the US, being a country for migrants, it syad that a person being persecuted or subjected to persecution may seek the protection of the US Government.So you see you even got the cheek to say
No- the INS does not perform routine checks-
and yet you siad
Tham left Singapore in 1984, before Pan-El collapsed. In April 1986, he was traced to Seattle in the United States by FBI officials
You really amazed me..so eat back those words.
And
Tan Ng Poh Meng In 1988, he was charged with insider trading for purchasing 1 million shares in Sealion Hotels
After his conviction, Ng moved to Vancouver, B.C.I thought that was Canada or is that Kalimantan. Then what has that got to do with the US. Moreover under the Commonwelath they also have the protection law and afterall you said after his conviction that means he paid his price for his mistake. So what’s wrong.
And as for
Abdul Rasyid, an Indonesian businessman, has denied illegal logging of hardwoods such as ramin and balau in the protected Tanjung Puting national park. He was named by the Indonesian government in a list of individuals suspected of involvement in the trade. The country’s forestry ministry alleged that he organized the trade in illegal timber, in an operation which the EIA said was overseen from Hong Kong and involved middlemen in Singapore.
Since you said that this guy is from Indonesia then perhaps pelicinnya kurang mungkin.
So did the compendium works the other way with what you said or is that Indomie and Pop Mie that makes you so stupid even more stupid than your servants..
Mending jadi pembantu..
-
Dragonwall,
There is no Beck’s beer brewery in Indonesia.
Heineken has full control over all breweries- including Anker and Bintang.Tansil brewery is in Putian, Fujian- hiding out with the other Indonesia Chinese white collar criminals- usually Fujian, Guangzhou or Shenzen.
You should have seen some of their faces when a big group of us pribumi are invited to Shenzen for golf and tourism paid by Chinese Government. They turned as white as ghosts- very funny.
Though, it has to be admitted- Shenzen is a nice city. Very neat.Most Indonesian Chinese fraudsters flee to Singapore, Australia, Canada, US and then some eventually move to China- where it’s impossible to extract them
Most have passed through the US- FBI not INS actually enforces the law. INS has its’ hands tied as Chinese and Mexican mafia smuggle in millions of cheap labourers and illegal immigrants- hene the US having major problems with immigration.
No one has the right to claim another man’s job in another land- precisely what the Chinese and Indians are very guilty of.
If Chinese and Indians actually worked for award wages (rather than undercut locals), were legitimate migrants rather than economically motivated illegals and actaully empoloyed locals (rather than other illegals on slave-labour wages) it would be a very different story.But I’m sure you as a Chinese resto owner- paying your illegal immigrant dishwasher $2 an hour and chef $3 an hour- wages held low by extortion via threat of deportation or suspension of fradulent migrant sponsorship papers- (the usual Hokkien tricks) you would be in an expert position to tell us all about that
The real Indonesian diaspora is tiny. The Chinese Indonesian diaspora is much larger than the pribumi one. Why is that?
Snakeheads?
Wrong again cukong licik.
Keep working on your Singlish-English online translator though.- I think it’s marginally funnier this time- ever though of your own website?
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And you said
So when someone commented and made forecast on business and finance it is bragging..new words to my ear. Shall I say more like envy? So you had also check other threads on economy and Bi stuffs. Wasn’t I correct in most of those case? This prove one thing. You guys can’t stand when someone had made some kind of achievement. And so also notice others too.. keep on lickspittle, back patting, and you even got the cheek to say the Chinese wants to save a few dime? What about you? How much have you or your company contributed on tax, PPh?
Ini namanya minum air tidak tahu sumbernya……… Cemburu karena tidak dapat terima apa yang nyata… Makes you a typical Indonesian in the making.. or is that Dayaks.. What next.. with your Jaguar.