Discrimination Against Chinese
Sep 27th, 2006, in Society, by PatungLee Kuan Yew says there is systematic discrimination against Indonesians of Chinese descent.
The former president of Singapore, as part of a one-hour address at the Raffles Forum, held in conjunction with the IMF-World Bank Meeting in Singapore, reportedly said that the ethnic Chinese minority population in Indonesia, and Malaysia:
Our neighbors both have problems with their Chinese. They [the Chinese] are successful. They are hard working and, therefore, they are systematically marginalized.
and that this was one reason why Singapore, a Chinese majority state, had to be firm against Malaysia and Indonesia.
Lee Kuan Yew.
Indonesian politicians were quick to react to these statements. Djoko Susilo of the National Mandate Party (PAN), said Yew was a big liar, and:
We are very upset because it has disgraced Indonesia. We will ask the government to send a letter of protest to Lee.
He said that Chinese people were able to work in any area, including the military.
We even have ministers and MP’s [who are Chinese].
Amris Hassan of the Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P), bemoaned the harm Lee’s statement would cause to internal Indonesian cohesiveness, and intra-ASEAN relations.
It is very dangerous for our unity because the false feeling of some people here will be justified, and they will think that marginalization really exists. Beside obstructing our bilateral relations, the remarks also hinder the process of establishing the ASEAN community.
Amris said Lee should issue a public apology and explain himself.
October 2nd.
An apology was forthcoming. The Malaysian government’s demanding of such an apology was successful with Lee Kuan Yew saying:
I am sorry that what I said has caused you a great deal of discomfort. ….it is the last thing I wanted.
in a letter to Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.
193 Comments on “Discrimination Against Chinese”
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
In my grandparents days , the Chinese worked with the Dutch to enslave the local villagers, and would help thwart local resistances by spying on the local pribumi(such as my grandparents) and reporting back to Dutch. They were dogs of the Dutch
AND when the Japs came, They shifted their allegiance and helped the Japs against the Dutch and the Pribumi. They became the dogs of the Japs
After the Japs were overthrown, they started becoming nice to the Pribumi again (which shows their Munafik nature). The hate against the Chinese was so feverishly high due to their treacherous motives that the villagers massacred ALL the Chinese within surrounding area and villages.
That, as my parents put it, explains why there was literally no Chinese around the area when they were young/teenagers. Because they were all dead.This kind of story can provide a context in why there is such animosity against the Chinese.
The Funny thing is that I think there is actually Chinese blood in me, because I look chinese, and my Dad, in his old age, also look Chinese. In Indonesia my Dad’s Chinese friend were surprised to find out that he was Muslim, consequently being a Chinese muslim was seen as a something of a paradox. So I have a the unique perspective of being both.I have Chinese Friends and Pribumi friends, and I can identify with both perspectives
Well said. You should tell this to Dragonball and DXP.
Ditto in Zimbabwe. Replace the ‘Chinese’ with ‘British’. We have not done the ‘land-grab’.
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maju says:
some people just make up bad stories and slander about Chinese people such as telling they are hypocrite etc, exaggerate those stories so that people hate them for their own benefit, while at the same time telling the native and the Chinese Indonesian to “reconcile and accept each other” (which is a very good idea). you can see who are the hypocrites here… those people are never satisfied to hurt Chinese, despite their effort for Indonesian economy and sports, many have succeeded in fields other than business, most notably in the sport of badminton, the most popular competitive sport in Indonesia. Indonesian athletes dominated the sport from the 1960s to the 1990s. Many of the beloved players and coaches are Chinese Indonesians, such as Tan Joe Hok, Rudy Hartono, Christian Hadinata, Tjun Tjun, Johan Wahjudi, Ade Chandra, Liem Swie King, Ivana Lie, Verawaty, Susi Susanti, Alan Budikusuma, Ardy Wiranata, and Heryanto Arbi.
and of course they were discriminated, several example :
In 1959, President Soekarno approved PP 10/1959, a directive that forced Chinese Indonesians to close their businesses in rural areas and relocate to urban areas. Enforcement was brutal; in one 1967 incident in Western Kalimantan, 42,000 accused separatists were slaughtered
Between 1965 and 1975, army and police officers were rampant in abusing Chinese Indonesians, such as openly robbing and raping their families. During this time, police could abuse any people using Chinese language. The only way to survive during this harsh period was by using bribes.
In addition, those who were considered as heroes of Indonesian independence, such as Siauw Giok Tjhan and Liem Koen Hian, were either brutally executed, exiled, or jailed. Those who protested were silently murdered. None of them were bestowed national hero status. It effectively discouraged any Chinese Indonesian of the time to dedicate their lives for Indonesia.
Various government policies banned Chinese language teaching, speaking, and publication. Established schools and colleges run by Chinese Indonesian foundations were nationalized and their facilities seized without compensation. They were converted to state or pribumi-run schools such as Universitas Res Publica, which became Universitas Trisakti
not to mention Jakarta riots 1998
i hope that slowly, the Chinese-Indonesian, or lets just say “Indonesian whose ancestor are chinese” will not be discriminated anymore and i bet Indonesia will become stronger.. BERSATU KITA TEGUH, BERCERAI KITA RUNTUH.. right??
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Ish says:
Maju I agree with you on many points.
HOWEVER early (back then) hostilities against the Chinese, were NOT unfounded as you have implied. There were many reported cases that is similar of my earlier statements. OF their betrayals etc. You have to look at this in the CONTEXT of that specific generation/society; The Chinese were relatively new to the country, there was a clash of cultures.
And If you were to put yourself in the shoe of a Chinese who just came to Indonesia from a boat, he/she would not say, I’m NOT like him(Pribumi) or even consider themselves remotely similar to the Pribumis. And why should “I” be loyal to the pribumis? They’re DIFFERENT than me. And this is true for any initial clash of cultures in most societies around the world. These feeling of DIFFERENCE of US and THEM plus the fact that Indonesia was in a struggle against colonization of a foreign power, who at the time was seen as winning, created the conditions of my earlier story. Reason is simple; self-preservation.
HOWEVER given that the Chinese-Indos of THIS generation (they’re like what? 5th 6th generation),in context of globalization and through generations of inter-marriage have assimilated, integrated and contributed so much within indonesian society and history that they have become as indonesian as any pribumi/javanese can claim to be.
Like me.. I have chinese and pribumi blood. Im Indonesian. Im not going to discriminate my pribumi or my chinese brothers.
Though some form of discrimination may still exist within some people, it will take time for the wounds of the past to heal. But it will happen. I am optimistic of the future.
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dragonwall says:
Not many people are that fortunate as you are despite the fact that Many Muslims choose to ignore that they have Chinese blood running in them.
I think it may be also the same cause why Islamic factions in Palestinians were fighting the Israelis religiously.
In Indonesia my Dad’s Chinese friend were surprised to find out that he was Muslim, consequently being a Chinese muslim was seen as a something of a paradox. So I have a the unique perspective of being both.I have Chinese Friends and Pribumi friends, and I can identify with both perspectives
Well you admitted that you could put yourself on both side by wearing two different kind of shoes walking down the alley streetn with Chinese blood flowing in you.
And
Well said. You should tell this to Dragonball and DXP.
I have an advice for you that is follow what Michael Jackson did so that you could also be white and perhaps the mole could even change color.
Like what DXP, said if you guys don’t like the Chinese why not create a bigger riot to get rid of them. There are many cowards with big mouth running around in this blog that seemed to make them more like a moronic kafir than they actually were.
The very one thing I see in the whole issue is that when they get what benefits them they don’t remember but when it comes to something they were unable to get they won’t forget.
This is one factor where the Pribumis or the less educated were more easily manipulated by the educated ones in carrying out the dirty job.
Just to name a few Wiranto, Prabowo, Syafrie Syamsuddin, BJ Habibie, Aburizal Bakrie and Yusril Ihza Mahendra and the list, if you were to observe in Indonesian daily lives, will go on unending.
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@ dragonwall
er .. you completely ignored PN’s comment.
PN is not asking the Indon Chinese to reimburse us with your forebearers’ ill-gotten gains. As long as the Indon Chinese knew the source of anomity between ‘them’ and us, and be more humble and show humility, only then there would be peace. Guilt or no guilt .. it is that easy.
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kiwibali says:
Various government policies banned Chinese language teaching, speaking, and publication. Established schools and colleges run by Chinese Indonesian foundations were nationalized and their facilities seized without compensation. They were converted to state or pribumi-run schools such as Universitas Res Publica, which became Universitas Trisakti
When in Rome do as the roman does right? when the government imposes this, it wasn’t long ago when Indonesia declared independence, they country is still in the state of rebuilding, we are still searching for a common identity we still trying to unite all the different ethnic group.
Ethnic Chinese are arguably harder to integrate into the mainstream population, we are of a different, highly visible, race and not to mention the animosity that, unfortunately, the pribumi have on ethnic Chinese.Given the action is arguable classified as racist. But with the tension running (and arguably still are), the state simply do not want to create state within state. If such policies were never implemented, there’s a high possibility of a Internal threat and conflict further down the road.
We can all agree the ethnic tension is visible and sometime hostile, now would it not be reasonable then for the ethnic Chinese to completely remove themself from the society that treat them like ‘sh*t’ (sure we could tackle this problem early and simply say “hey stop discriminating the Chinese”. But we all know, attitude gained over such a long period of time could not be erase in a short period of time)?
Would it not be reasonable then, for the ethnic Chinese to only communicate with ‘each other’ in their ‘own language’ and completely ignore the bahasa Indonesia, because they don’t find it necessary to do so?
Over time would such action lead to a huge gap, culturally, linguistically, between the ethnic Chinese and the ‘pribumi’ and lead to the feeling within the ethnic Chinese that they were never Indonesian?
Would it be reasonable then to predict that these will lead to the fear of internal threat and conflict?The actions of the government is therefore is not base solely on ‘racism’, sure there might be some of element of that (emphasise on the maybe), but there was a more pressing concern, national unity.
You might argue “how about the ‘bahasa daerah’ (indigenous language) in different islands?
well, we dont have quite the same resources that enabled us to print publications, set up schools, etc, which made the ‘bahasa daerah’ less of a threat. For most of the indeginous its more like, “The only language we use in schools will be Bahasa Indonesia, either you take it or be illiterate for the rest of your life”. While for ethnic Chinese there are options.As for the nationalisation of the universities, most of the rakyat was illiterate and poor, and not to mention in the early days, we were supposedly a left wing (government controlled) state, would it not be reasonable for the state to take over most facilities, albeit an unfair one, to provide it to the wider community? Again we were still rebuilding. I dont know the figures of pribumis that have schools established under their name, but im guessing that most of the schools (private) in Indonesia were owned by ethnic chinese.
As for the topic of discrimination against ethnic Chinese. To start with, be more respectful mate, just don’t show off your wealth in front others that don’t have anything (most of my mates (pribumi) attributed this sole reason for having a negative feeling towards the ethnic Chinese. This goes not only to the ethnic Chinese but also the pribumi.
You might say “Pribumi also show off their wealth, even more ‘sombong’ than me”, you might be right, but the unfortunate situation is, people distinguish race faster than they know you individually.Well that’s my opinion anyway.
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Purba Negoro says:
Kiwi Bali
excellent and constructive input.PS I love Auckland and Queenstowns’ snow. Ruapehu has superb skiing too.
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eh…Not that I do not understand PN. It is because I had for over a period of time observe PN and comments like yours that make things suck.
I do understand when you live in Rome you live like the Roman do. The Chinese did the same as what the Roman do, but the damn fact is that for decades, centuries such indifference in treatment they get were not immense but incomparable. Especially those later born like All American Bastard behaves as though everyone owes them a living by choosing to ignore that it was Cheng Ho that brought Islam into Indonesia.
Yusril could tell you better on this. I am sure some of them even claimed to be descendant of Wali Songo like Abdulrahman Wahid. -
As for the topic of discrimination against ethnic Chinese. To start with, be more respectful mate, just don’t show off your wealth in front others that don’t have anything (most of my mates (pribumi) attributed this sole reason for having a negative feeling towards the ethnic Chinese. This goes not only to the ethnic Chinese but also the pribumi.
You might say “Pribumi also show off their wealth, even more ’sombong’ than me”, you might be right, but the unfortunate situation is, people distinguish race faster than they know you individually.Well that’s my
I am unsure which party are you referring but the one fact is that humans are quick to react to such without introspecting the others comments.
And look carefully. In usual case them just flare up after someone who feels agitated then comes the disrecpect because there is nothing to respect anymore.One other thing is that can you just show anyone here that someone is showing off their wealth?
You might say “Pribumi also show off their wealth, even more ’sombong’ than me
I am sure about this, very sure as you see on this blog witness first hand.
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@ dragonwall
What is your opinion of your forebearers cahooting with the Dutch in subduing the Javanese? Care to share with us.
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It is not a matter of whose forebearer’s past to cahoot about and I frequent see you make such referrence to that effect.
1. What is done cannot be undone2. What the Dutch is unforgiveable and needs to repent to the Indonesian in majority
whether they are Chinese, or Pribumis it should be treated alike. As to how the
Chinese were being manipulated in being coerce by the Dutch to carry out what was
claimed against the pribumi is something beyonf capprehension.3. What matters now is that:
a. The Indonesian Government and her officicals are carrying out what was passed
down for generations by choosing to ignore the rights of each individuals living in
Indonesia. Where were they from is immaterial.b. Government officials simple refuse to make the necessary changes despite the fact
that they knew what was and is going on. People like Mendagri, Menkundang and
Mensekneg.c. Despite there were Presidential decree passed down into law, the officials still refuse
to implement the changes but insisted on carrying on with that in order to continue
milking the cow.d. Officials, Military commanders, and some religious leaders also choose to ignore the
fact and continue to explore the possibility by incinuating propaganda and inciting
unrest by causing so much grieviance to the poor people and instigating them to
participate in what probably could be the dirtiest political history in Indonesia after
the post PKI era.The question is that is that fair to everyone (put aside the religion and race) in Indonesia. The probable answer from you could be yes it is fair because the Chinese who made themselves rich because they were corrupt and had collaborate with official to be corrupt and stealing from the state coffer.
Wonder yourself how many pribumi does that. Everyone with the position and opportunity without exception.Why are there so many people so interested in being the President of Indonesia.
The answer is so simple. Let’s say Abdul Rahman Wahid or Megawati how opportunities were created that had made Taufik Kiemas and his/their cronies by enriching himself. Those KKN that is still going on
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So if you want the problems corrected then it is the matter of Chicken or Egg first. Take your pick or standstill on time.
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janma says:
When in Rome do as the roman does right?
funnily, everywhere the Romans went they made others do like it was done in Rome.
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Dragonwall
all we hear from you is typical Chinese lies, fantasies and excuses to not take responsibility for their greed.Cheng Ho was a HAMAFI MUSLIM who visited Indonesia in 1415
ISLAM arrived in Indonesia around 8th 9th Century from SUFI Gujarati traders- yet another example of Chinese lies and boast to rewrite themselves favourably into history in defiance of archaeological fact.
But Chinese believe their own Myth over archaeological fact such as pulp-Fiction: “1421- China discovers everything (and invents everything including microwave popcorn and lands on the moon with its Treasure fleet)”
NO Chinese heroes- yet another total lie.
Proof lies in examining Motive.
What possible motivation did they have to be Nationalists? Lose all of their ill-gotten gains to the hated muddy “Fan” or Hua Na” Pribumi?Siauw Giok Tjhan and Liem Koen Hian- were BOTH LAWYERS and leaders of PTI- Partai Tionghpoa Indoensian.
They NEVER fought in the Revolution.
They were HEROES to ONLY CHINESE- PTI was a political entity completely funded by Chinese businesses to avoid being investigated for corroboration during the post Colonial period.
They were EXILED as they were COMMUNISTS- Illegal political ideology for ALL Indonesians- Pribumi included.You continue to insult our intelligence with your pathetic Glodok half-truths.
Then you conveniently sidestep the issue of Chinese collusion by claiming it was all the Dutch.But you do admit Chinese cause their own problems:
“The only way to survive during this harsh period was by using bribes.”Of course, obeying the Law, following the Higher Path and being Positive Contributors are options unavailable Chinese due to… Dutch? Pribumi?
No: their own choice NOT to do these things.Fact:
If you OBEY the Law to the letter- Police cannot bribe you: they have no basis for leverage.
Strange- expats never have these Chinese problems of bribery?So- its’ not about race- but CRIMINALITY
“Chinese Indonesian foundations were nationalized and their facilities seized without compensation”-
YES that’s exactly what happened to ALL PROVEN COLONIAL COLLABORATORS and enemies of the People and State- Batak, Javanese or Chinese.Maju then explicitly outlines Chinese hostility to any form of solidarity or assimilation:
“he/she would not say, I’m NOT like him (Pribumi) or even consider themselves remotely similar to the Pribumis. And why should “I” be loyal to the pribumis? They’re DIFFERENT than me.”This admits the fact:
Chinese CHOSE to arrive ILLEGALLY
CHOSE to travel for OPPORTUNISTIC PERSONAL ECONOMIC GAIN
Chose PERSONAL ECONOMIC GAIN under discriminatory
Colonial construct
CHOSE to EXPLOIT PRIBUMI and RACIST COLONIALISM for OWN OPPORTUNISTIC PERSONAL ECONOMIC GAINBut:
What Right did they have to be Illegal Uninvited Aliens in Indonesia to begin with?
What Right did they have to impose themselves on an enslaved people?
What Right did they have to be employed to enslave the Pribumi?
What Right did they have to use Pribumi resources and labour for their own personal economic enrichment?
What Right do they have to continue impose their Illegal and Uninvited PresenceIt’s not the Pribumi’s fault they are trespassing in his home (or have nowhere else to go- they should have thought have that before surrendering to greedy economic opportunism) yet they have the supremely offensive audacity to demand acknowledgment as honoured guests if not co-owners?
It’s the Burglar asking for his own bedroom.
“HOWEVER given that the Chinese-Indos of THIS generation (they’re like what? 5th 6th generation),in context of globalization and through generations of inter-marriage have assimilated, integrated and contributed…”
What alleged contributions are these, pray tell.
Salim Group? Lippo? Collapsed banks? Billions in Stolen State Money?
RUSHDIHARDJO: “If sexual harassment [of maids in Malaysia], it must be done by Indian ethnics. And for torture, slapping and so on, it’s by Chinese employer – while payment problems are from Malays.”
UNICEF stated: “‘’On the Indonesian island of Batam, Singaporean tourists underpin the demand for underage sex.”
from
http://www.batam.com/news/latest/asia-rock-star-s-expulsion-says-no-to-child-sex-tourists.htmlJawa Post Group: which publishes:
Gugat, Karmasutra, SkandaL, PosMo, Bankgit and previsouly DeTak and Editor?Ee Hoe Hean- for millionaires to fund anti-Nationalist movements in Malaysia and Indonesia- particularly through the veil of anti-Japanese activity- worried they would lose their plantations and economic monopolies?
Kong Diji Hing and Kong Gi Hing were major anti-SI (Serikat Indonesia) Movements- in other words- 100% Chinese funded and membership to oppose Native Independence (Chirot, 1997: 188-193)?
Glodok, Pluit, Kelapa Gading, Karawaci, Tanjung Priok, Slipi Grogol: home of mega brothels, amphetamines labs, gambling dens, strip clubs, gay clubs?
A Chinese:
Kartini?
Dewi Sartika?
Rasuna Said?
Nyi Ageng SerangNothing even close.
In the modern day, a Chinese:
Pratiwi Sudarmono?
Utut Adianto Wahyuwidayat?
Soedarsono Hadisapoetro?
Dr Yani- poverty elimination expert recognised by the UN?What ethnicity are the leading scientists, economists, artists, physicians, surgeons, academics and leaders of Indonesia?
100% Pribumi.Tokoh Indonesia- a list of adverts who paid Tokoh ( Dutch-era spelling recalling those halcyon days when brownie Pribumi served drinks and kept mouth closed, sigh…).
Most common words were: pengusaha, aktris, model and dokter.Again- proof of Chinese love of money over any and all else higher
Again- not one Chinese who comes close.Facts clearly indicate Chinese have no contribution to Indonesia aside from middle-men merchants, crappy franchises, usurous economic predation via money lending,
brothels, industrial amphetamines labs, gambling dens, tabloid press, the list of Lumpenprole activity runs on ad infinitumInconvenient Truth?
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janma still humming…..
“I like Chinese…. their food is guaranteed to please… a 14, a 7, a 9 and lychees….”
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Andy says:
PN-It’s not the Pribumi’s fault they are trespassing in his home (or have nowhere else to go- they should have thought have that before surrendering to greedy economic opportunism)
Australians could ask the same question regarding Indonesian fishermen and illegal immigrants who trespassed on our soil.
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Australians could ask the same question regarding Indonesian fishermen and illegal immigrants who trespassed on our soil.
definetly mate, its not the Australian fault that the illegal immigrants came to your country, they are by definition “illegal” and therefore broke the law, and therefore the Australian goverment are within their jurisdiction to prosecute them. Beside mate its the tough reality of being a developed country next to a developing country, you will always get illegal immigrant. I doubt back in the days of dutch controled state, Indonesia is a beacon of opportunity and better life.
Ethnic Chinese came here when Indonesia was a under the control of the Dutch (of course there are others who have been here since the era of Majapahit, but most of them have went through the process of integration and mix mariages), thefore we did not have a say on border control. Australian have control over their border, its not like the aboriginess government, if tribal state can be called a government, in the pass let all the Indonesian in, and now the ‘white’ goverment are left with it.
As for the Indonesian fisherman; Well Indonesian fisherman have somewhere else to go, home. maybe they’re just not sure where exacly the border lies, its not like our fisherman have the latest GPS system. Yup there are always the reason of opportunistic behaviour, but hey your Navy is there for a reason. Do we have a “Pribumi anti-illegal alien army” or “Pribumi controlled border patrol” back in the day of ducth colonialism? Because of this, our problem are different because now we have 4th – 5th generation Indonesian-Chinese, that make it their home in Indonesia. They are not some “fisherman”, who can go to Indonesia to work and go back to China at 5 o’clock. They are fellow Indonesian, regardless of what people say. Which make it hard to tackle the problem, if they are an alien, Indonesia would just throw their asses away, but we cant because etnic-chinese is INDONESIAN.
If we have Phillipino fisherman crossing the border (which happened quite often) then we can deal with it now, because we have the resources, but we dont have control over the border back in the days of colonialism, therefore we are left with the residues of Ducth government administration. -
Andy-
Entirely wrong analogy. Yet again.
Yet again your ignorance and foolery is beyond words.
Have you had recurrent head injuries or something?Christmas Island was Indonesian territory until the 1970’s.
Indonesia is attempting to stop these fishermen- but many traditional fishermen do not have maps, GPS etc or even radio- and instead rely on schoolbooks and traditional knowledge of following ocean currents, colours etc.They cost less to jail than your electively generational welfare parasites like your lazy unemployed multi-dads popping out children to multiple (often unknown) fathers) and watching Government subsidies cable TV.
Their intention is NOT to reside in Australia but fish in former Indonesian waters- Australia got as guarantee to butt out of Timor- but yet again fat Aussie lied.
The UN Refugee figures clearly detail Indonesians arw among the LOWEST numbers GLOABLLY for Illegal Immigration.
The worst illegal immigrants by number are:
Chinese, Mexican, Nigerian, African Other, Indian, Guatemalan, Ukraine and onwards it goesIllegals aliens on board fishing vessels are Chinese, Afghanis, Iraqis etc
Besides- Australia deports them anyway.
So what’s your point, genius?
Janma- not your nation and you married [poorly] the Historic Enemy- so kindly butt out or read some history that comes in hardback, not on low quality pulp [usually from typical Chinese illegal logging- look closely you might see some orang-utan hair]
PS Their food is disgusting and tastes like oil, garlic and MSG
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wipe your mouth PN…. you’ve still got a bit of bullsh*t on your lips….
Christmas Island never belonged to Indonesia.
The island was administered jointly by the British Phosphate Commissioners and District Officers from the United Kingdom Colonial Office through the Straits Settlements, and later the Crown Colony of Singapore.
Japan invaded and occupied the island in 1942, as the Indian garrison mutinied, and interned the residents until the end of World War II in 1945.
At Australia’s request, the United Kingdom transferred sovereignty to Australia; in 1957, the Australian government paid the government of Singapore £2.9 million in compensation, a figure based mainly on an estimated value of the phosphate forgone by Singapore.
The first Australian Official Representative arrived in 1958 and was replaced by an Administrator in 1968. Christmas Island and the Cocos (Keeling) Islands together are called the Australian Indian Ocean Territories and since 1997 share a single Administrator resident on Christmas Island.
There you go poppet…..
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Weirdly, Indonesian fisherman for all their crossing of borders, probably never even went close to Christmas Island even though it’s so close to Indonesia until after the dutch who sailed thousands of miles from the other side of the world first set foot on it in 1666.
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Oigal says:
There you go poppet…..
Laugh made my day!
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sputjam says:
No race.
No religion.
No ideology.
Everyone judged by their deeds.
Surely this is a sure way to acheive peace. -
PN-They cost less to jail than your electively generational welfare parasites like your lazy unemployed multi-dads popping out children to multiple (often unknown) fathers) and watching Government subsidies cable TV.
Yes, and the chinese who make a living and create business in your country cost far less than your people who can’t educate themselves or do a decent day’s work….mostly the middle class pribumi who try to get through their life by bribing and colluding with the majority like you who ignore what they do and harrass foreigners and chinese who are trying to lift your country off it’s butt!!
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PN-Christmas Island was Indonesian territory until the 1970’s.
Oh really, janma was right and you were wrong again….prove your point!!! and not with a dickhead publication from your biased media. I guess you read pos kota and watch trans tv to educate your feeble brain..
Here is the truth as wisely pointed out by janma:
History
For centuries, Christmas Island’s isolation and rugged coasts provided natural barriers to settlement. British and Dutch navigators first included the island on their charts from the early seventeenth century, and Captain William Mynors of the British East India Company vessel, the Royal Mary, named the island when he arrived on Christmas Day, 25 December 1643. The island first appears on a map produced by Pieter Goos and published in 1666. Goos had labelled the island Moni.The earliest recorded visit was in March 1688 by William Dampier of the British ship Cygnet, who found it uninhabited. An account of the visit can be found in Dampier’s Voyages, which describes how, when trying to reach Cocos from New Holland, his ship was pulled off course in an easterly direction and after 28 days arrived at Christmas Island. Dampier landed at the Dales (on the West Coast) and two of his crewmen were the first recorded people to set foot on Christmas Island.
The next visit was by Daniel Beekman, who described it in his 1718 book, A Voyage to and from the Island of Borneo, in the East Indies.
In 1771, the Indian vessel, the Pigot, attempted to find an anchorage but was unsuccessful; the crew reported seeing wild pigs and coconut palms. However, pigs are not known to have been introduced to the island at the time, so the Pigot may have found a different island.
[edit] Exploration and annexation
Poon Saan in the evening
Poon Saan shopsThe first attempt at exploring the island was in 1857 by the crew of the Amethyst. They tried to reach the summit of the island, but found the cliffs impassable.During the 1872-76 Challenger expedition to Indonesia, naturalist Dr John Murray carried out extensive surveys.
In 1887, Captain Maclear of HMS Flying Fish, having discovered an anchorage in a bay that he named Flying Fish Cove, landed a party and made a small but interesting collection of the flora and fauna. In the next year, Pelham Aldrich, on board HMS Egeria, visited it for ten days, accompanied by J. J. Lister, who gathered a larger biological and mineralogical collection.
Among the rocks then obtained and submitted to Sir John Murray for examination were many of nearly pure phosphate of lime, a discovery which led to annexation of the island by the British Crown on 6 June 1888.
[edit] Settlement and exploitation
Soon afterwards, a small settlement was established in Flying Fish Cove by G. Clunies Ross, the owner of the Keeling Islands (some 900 kilometres to the south west) to collect timber and supplies for the growing industry on Cocos.Phosphate mining began in the 1890s using indentured workers from Singapore, China, and Malaysia.
The island was administered jointly by the British Phosphate Commissioners and District Officers from the United Kingdom Colonial Office through the Straits Settlements, and later the Crown Colony of Singapore.
[edit] Japanese invasion
Japan invaded and occupied the island in 1942, as the Indian garrison mutinied, and interned the residents until the end of World War II in 1945.[edit] Transfer to Australia
At Australia’s request, the United Kingdom transferred sovereignty to Australia; in 1957, the Australian government paid the government of Singapore £2.9 million in compensation, a figure based mainly on an estimated value of the phosphate forgone by Singapore.The first Australian Official Representative arrived in 1958 and was replaced by an Administrator in 1968. Christmas Island and the Cocos (Keeling) Islands together are called the Australian Indian Ocean Territories and since 1997 share a single Administrator resident on Christmas Island.
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Patung- where’s my comment?
Andy- nice cut and paste job. I’m impressed. Not the usual James and the Giant Peach- and a witty comment to boot. You are improving.
Janma
Austronesians sailed as far as Hawaii Janma.
The largest population of Austronesians is in modern-day Indonesia, then Phillipines, Thailand etcThe Human Genome project clearly identifies Pacific Isladners as from the same genotype as archipelago Malays= Indonesians.
Not to mention shared culture and linguistic markers.There are also recent pottery fragments recently found around Darwin coastline dating from 14th Century- probably from Java- and probably Chinese glazed earthen ware.
Thus, any purely hypothetic Indonesian claim to Christmas Islands and Terra Australis hold more water than van Diemens’ or Captain Jimmy Cook’s- especially regard to Cook’s own flimsy “terra nullius”.
From a peer-reviewed University of Wollongong Paper:
“Communication and trade were not restricted to the continent. Regular visitors from Indonesia and Papua New Guinea brought to northern Australia their senses of time,
and a variety of myths, religious rites, art designs and technologies. The coastal peoples in Arnhem Land incorporated visits from Sulawesi into their seasonal cycle,
perhaps as long as 1000 years ago, certainly before the Portugese and Dutch intrusions, and regularly at least a century before Cook’s arrival…”from Mike Donaldson’s “The End of Time: Aboriginal
Temporality and the British Invasion of
Australia”
you can read or download here:One of many, many peer-reviewed theses and journal publications about the TRUE history of the aborigines.
Just do a google scholar search on:
“Indonesia +archeology +trade +aborigines”With all these Ostrayan boors and their trite agit prop- I say fight fatty with fat.
High time Indonesian government started sponsoring Aboriginal Rights Movements with millions of US Dollars. WE can outspend your Aussie GDP easily- merely borrowing against one undeveloped Kalimantan mine- I suggest something like:
Indonesia will claim all of North and Western Australia as historically ours- and gift the bulk including Arnhem Land, Uluru and the Kimberly and all lucrative mines to the Aborigines pro bono- in return for recognition of Indoensian sovereignty of the tiny plot of land TimTim, all of Sriwijaya land (Malaysian vassals)- most of Siam, Pulau Temasek (Singa-whore) and ALL Pulau Irian- our former Majapahit labourer hatchery and camphor/sandal wood depot.
Then a popular Sukarnoist push for a restart to PhilIndo- we’ll promise the Philippinos peace in Mindanao by nerve bombing everything with a lung, promise to expel all Philippines Chinese- especially the hated Tan family, nationalise their criminally gained wealth, return all Cheenaman Marcos’ money and promise the Yanks the Saba and Mindanao mines with the home-warming gift of Subic for free.
Have you ever asked a Philippino’s opinion of their Encik2 (Tagalog for wong cino)? I distinctly recall Austronesian riots and abrupt coup d’etat when I served.
Who do you think the Aborigines and the Yanks will support?
Dirt cheap mines with no ecological restrictions and freedom to export lucrative uranium wherever to whomever and vast tracts of keenly pliant Aboriginals’ lands?
Maybe promise the Yanks dump as much nuclear waste as they can possibly ship in the red centre or just on that stupid coral thing as it’s stingy and annoying and got horrible little octopus you can’t eat.Or fat whiney Ostrayan who often condemns the US and restricts US uranium trade and its’ petulant and annoying ANZUS treaty and fudges over fulfilling its’ true role as the worlds’ most suitable nuclear landfill?
Time for fatty to taste his own tallowy medicine I think.
What’s the number for Indigenous Affairs?
Nice try, Ostrayans- but Java man and his Majapahit is demonstrably far older and wiser. We are merely temporarily at the bottom of the wheel of time, slowly ascending once again.
Pecel, anyone? Goes well with sate koala. Enak bwanget ,lo.
The grill burns well on Herald Suns- nice trick Andy. -
I believe the term is
Quod Erat Demonstratum? -
PN when translated it stands for Ancient Negriti, oops fromWikipedia! This will better understand the thinking you conceive and better gauge your talk nonsense big mouth.
There were many that were written and being left without answers from you. You just picked the easy part where you display the mastery of deceit of propaganda to express your detestation.
all we hear from you is typical Chinese lies, fantasies and excuses to not take responsibility for their greed.
You need not hear from me, it was written all over and as to being responsible for their greed I they, who were involve in any wrong doing shall be pay the price of their action. This you need not tell me because I do not condone any of their action at all.
Now I will let you have it and we see from the historical, focal point and not make beliefs because as far as my assessments are, I am quite correct to say that you are amongst one of those TNI cronies .
Cheng Ho was a HAMAFI MUSLIM who visited Indonesia in 1415
So what is a HAMAFI, or SUNI! He is still a Chinese who brought and spread Islam in Indonesia and not from from SUFI Gujarati traders.
Like I said earlierm, you like to say what you like to hear by choosing to ignore the facts in arguing your way out.
What possible motivation did they have to be Nationalists? Lose all of their ill-gotten gains to the hated muddy “Fan” or Hua Na” Pribumi?
You fail to express in full because you felt that they should not be Nationalists?
Chinese translation for “Fan” mean turnover and “Hua Na” actually meant in Hokian as People who like to twist and turn. Do you admit that?
Siauw Giok Tjhan and Liem Koen Hian- were BOTH LAWYERS and leaders of PTI- Partai Tionghpoa Indoensian.
They NEVER fought in the RevolutionThere are many ways to kill a cat or skin someone alive like a pen is mightier than the sword. Why you failed to be impressed. We used our mouth and pen to win in court cases not totting a gun, stab others from behind! I am sure you can’t swallow this fact no wonder it took you approximately two days to come up with such unimpressive replies like what Janma said.
wipe your mouth PN…. you’ve still got a bit of bullsh*t on your lips….
Not a bit but plenty of bits….
You continue to insult our intelligence with your pathetic Glodok half-truths.
Then you conveniently sidestep the issue of Chinese collusion by claiming it was all the DutchDo you consider me to be side stepping on subject about the Dutch to avoid your pathetic and mediocritic mentality! I need not do so because you yourself is calling everyone out here to insult your pathetic absolutely no truth jargon.
But you do admit Chinese cause their own problems:
“The only way to survive during this harsh period was by using bribes.”Did someone admit it was the Chinese’s problems to survive the harsh period using bribes.
The Chinese go along with the bribes because they were forced to by those bureacrats like at this present moments with the Indonesian Custom and Excise. (Kepala Bea Cukai) And don’t tell me that the Customs have “bongkar penyelundupan dll” kind of craps.Let me give you a few examples. I had a freind who send home a handycam and he declared according the cost of it and was told that he have to pay xxx million as tax. Can you tell me how much a comment handycam cost? How come they are asking for the tax much more than it cost?
Another instance. Prior the Head of Bea Cukai took office everything seemed to be working hundred of millions to import goods for retail especially those perishables, and due to such imposition they were force to either pay up or face such losses. How is Indonesia going to improve on their economy?
If you OBEY the Law to the letter- Police cannot bribe you: they have no basis for leverage.
Strange- expats never have these Chinese problems of bribery?This show that either you are a kampungan or write without using your head. As far as the police are concern, they are always the first to make such request so that things could be lancar. Worst still your ignorance shows your mentality is not worth 2 cents.
Have you hear of the BHP and the big mining giants. What happened? Bribery big time and yet you say the expat never have the Chinese problems of bribery?“Chinese Indonesian foundations were nationalized and their facilities seized without compensation”
So why is the Indonesian Government prepared to return them back to the Chinese? And on top of that, those lands were sold by the Government to a third party for development that it becomes irretrievable on their part to honor their commitments of honoring another countries sovereignty.
I have a relative, who was a Baba and owns huge lands. The ABRi make request to use their land for military camps. Over a prolong period of time when asked to return the lands. Their reply was that, “Ya Pak kita tahu ini tanah kita pinjam pakai tapi tolong cariin tempat lain untuk pindah pak” Why? Why don’t you tell the Abri or TNI to fly a kite!YES that’s exactly what happened to ALL PROVEN COLONIAL COLLABORATORS and enemies of the People and State- Batak, Javanese or Chinese
And this is why and how Indonesia had lost their integrity.
Chinese CHOSE to arrive ILLEGALLY
CHOSE to travel for OPPORTUNISTIC PERSONAL ECONOMIC GAIN
Chose PERSONAL ECONOMIC GAIN under discriminatory
Colonial construct
CHOSE to EXPLOIT PRIBUMI and RACIST COLONIALISM for OWN OPPORTUNISTIC PERSONAL ECONOMIC GAINI have not heard of Chinese coming in by the busload and request asylum from the Indonesian Government? Have you?
What Right did they have to be Illegal Uninvited Aliens in Indonesia to begin with?
What Right did they have to impose themselves on an enslaved people?
What Right did they have to be employed to enslave the Pribumi?
What Right did they have to use Pribumi resources and labour for their own personal economic enrichment?
What Right do they have to continue impose their Illegal and Uninvited PresenceOnce you had accepted their presence then they have every right, when the Indonesian Government understands the word which you don’t on the right to domicile, toehrwise they will be repatriated back to their own country if you understand immigration law that I think you don’t.
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Ee Hoe Hean- for millionaires to fund anti-Nationalist movements in Malaysia and Indonesia- particularly through the veil of anti-Japanese activity- worried they would lose their plantations and economic monopolies?
This is the best part. Since you know the undermention I am sure it is not too difficult being a millionaire. Don’t you, if you have you own plantation you will do everything to protect them? Don’t forget it is always the pribumis that is always involve in “serobot tanah orang lain”.
I have a classic example of a client who forefathers were living in Cianjur, born and bred. Because the pribumi neighbors were either too poor or had an eyesore starts to make false reports by calling them PKI. They were ordinary farmers and were badly beatened. They survived by hiding in the forest for a prolong period of time and came out if hiding after the clandestine operation. They were then forced to sell their plantation cheaply to the pribumi neighbors which they did and thereafter moved to Tanjung Priok in Jakarta. Have those pribumi neighbors got richer? The answer is no, even became poorer. But My client they got richer. How come, I wonder!.
Facts clearly indicate Chinese have no contribution to Indonesia aside from middle-men merchants, crappy franchises, usurous economic predation via money lending
Try beat this.
Idiots like you make such comments of dissatisfaction out of sheer jealousy. Don’t forget the Chinese control 85 % of the Indonesian economy even until today te figures did not go under 60% amidst the exodus and capital flights.
And one thing, so that you remember there are things that you thought you know which you don’t.
Chmas Island was sold to the Australian by Mr. Lim Yew Hock the Minister for Singapore. SINGAPORE WAS AT THAT TIME KNOWN AS THE CROWN COLONY. Kapiche.tHIS SHOWS HOW ILLITERATE YOU ARE, I SUPPOSE BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU WERE.
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Dragonwall- you personify the archetypal Singaporean.
A peerless, Sophist supreme.
Utterly dimwitted, mind populated full of Chinatown gossip, factitious trivia, fallacious hagiography, self-aggrandizement, fabrication and half-truths.
A demi-automaton solely capable of the most base linear thought- his proud intellectual weapons: specious argument and argumentum ad reductio.To call you an ignoramus and a buffoon, would be harsh insult to ignoramuses and buffoons.
No- you are a very unique species of dullard, hitherto unimaginable to exist aside from 1950’s B Grade science fiction: “The Man with No Brain!: A story of Singaporeans”
To argue with you per point would occupy too much of this forum and be utterly futile.
Your pea-brain can only take so much before your neurons fail.
Bzzt Does not commute! Error! Erorr! Lee Kwan Yew is King Nummer one!
Bzzt! Phhht!I’m only going to answer your stupidity regarding Zheng He
How possibly in 1415 can someone spread something that was already there?
There were mosques already in Semarang you foolish clown.But it’s a superb example of Singapore intellectual ineptitude and simplistic linear thought process.
Any rubbish can be printed- exactly like the Singaporean compulsory sex-manual: the hagiography “1421” (written by an amateur historian).
This penny-dreadful pamphlet keenly onanised over by the self-aggrandizing petty bourgeoisie of a derivative, utterly facile nation has been attacked by academics globally as being complete rubbish, fantasy and shoddy reasoning.Assuming your Eng-uh-lish is powderful enough wan to lead (read):
Peer-reviewed academic publication Journal of World History 15(2): 241 states (Robert Finlay (2004) in ” How Not to (Re)Write World History: Gavin Menzies and the Chinese Discovery of America”)
“Examination of the book’s central claims reveals they are uniformly without substance.”Now regarding your typical Singapore Bullsheet about China in Java:
Hamka wrote in 1961: “The development of Islam in Indonesia and Malaya is intimately related to a Chinese Muslim, Admiral Zheng He.”Hamka was unable to read English. His highest education was in a pesantren- an Islamic school- not exactly qualifications of a scholar.
Slamet Muljana writes: “Zheng He built Chinese Muslim communities first in Palembang, then in San Fa (West Kalimantan), subsequently he founded similar communities along the shores of Java
Utter nonsense.
Palembang had been Muslim within the same century as Gujarati and Arabs been trading with the Sultanate Banda Aceh Darul IslamiyahThe Muslim cemetery of the first Javanese Noble has been dated to 1297
From another peer-reviewed University monograph:
Rickleffs: A history of Modern Idonesia ISBN 0804744807: pages 15-19.Purba means kekuasaan=, Pak Pinter. It may mean Dukedom, Duchy, Palatinate or Dominator (+ state).
Idiot Malaysee-ahns, trul-ey Ay-see-ahns (is it?) ruined the meaning. It does not mean ancient.
Purba manusia- means lord of mankind- implying predecessorIt’s Javanese- like most of “Malay-see-ahn”- a dreadful corruption of a superior tongue.
Like Bogel= short- but idiot Malays think it means naked.
Bugil is nude.
Pantat is butt cheeks- but idiot Malaysians think it’s a vagina.So you better not tell a Malaysian your bogel mother in law has an enormous pantat.
“Chmas Island was sold to the Australian by Mr. Lim Yew Hock the Minister for Singapore. SINGAPORE WAS AT THAT TIME KNOWN AS THE CROWN COLONY. Kapiche.”
Excellent- I now have another example of shifty Chinese selling stolen goods or what they had no legitimate right to claim ownership of.
So Mr Lim Hock was “hocking” hot goods as a “fence”?
Colonialism was theft. Scraping, bowing lickspittle Chinaman sells one part of stolen property to another thief (Ostrayan yobbos) illegitimately claiming ownership to something not rightfully their’s.
Or perhaps you believe Aborigines are a figment of imagination?No honour amongst thieves, is there Tukang Cukong Tipu?
Temasek was Javanese since Srwiijaya. Raffles stole it- in return for protecting (later Sultan) Johor- a common pirate’s bastard descendant.
Ganyang Singapura is still incredibly popular policy among the Rakyat
Pak Suharto had the brilliance to do it without wasting a bullet on those short-sighted bespectacled ladyboys you Singaporeans call soldiers.
Comment on “Discrimination Against Chinese”.
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I can relate to why so many pribumi hates the chinese so much, let me share you a story my parents used to tell me when I was a kid:
My parents are from Padang-Pariaman.
In my grandparents days , the Chinese worked with the Dutch to enslave the local villagers, and would help thwart local resistances by spying on the local pribumi(such as my grandparents) and reporting back to Dutch. They were dogs of the Dutch
AND when the Japs came, They shifted their allegiance and helped the Japs against the Dutch and the Pribumi. They became the dogs of the Japs
After the Japs were overthrown, they started becoming nice to the Pribumi again (which shows their Munafik nature). The hate against the Chinese was so feverishly high due to their treacherous motives that the villagers massacred ALL the Chinese within surrounding area and villages.
That, as my parents put it, explains why there was literally no Chinese around the area when they were young/teenagers. Because they were all dead.
This kind of story can provide a context in why there is such animosity against the Chinese.
The Funny thing is that I think there is actually Chinese blood in me, because I look chinese, and my Dad, in his old age, also look Chinese. In Indonesia my Dad’s Chinese friend were surprised to find out that he was Muslim, consequently being a Chinese muslim was seen as a something of a paradox. So I have a the unique perspective of being both.I have Chinese Friends and Pribumi friends, and I can identify with both perspectives
My point is, despite our past disagreement we should all get along with each other…
It doesn’t matter if your Chinese, Pribumi or something in between or of different religion or culture, we should reconcile and accept each other. And we will overtime, with so many pribumi’s and ‘Chindos’ marrying each other.