Discrimination Against Chinese
Sep 27th, 2006, in Society, by PatungLee Kuan Yew says there is systematic discrimination against Indonesians of Chinese descent.
The former president of Singapore, as part of a one-hour address at the Raffles Forum, held in conjunction with the IMF-World Bank Meeting in Singapore, reportedly said that the ethnic Chinese minority population in Indonesia, and Malaysia:
Our neighbors both have problems with their Chinese. They [the Chinese] are successful. They are hard working and, therefore, they are systematically marginalized.
and that this was one reason why Singapore, a Chinese majority state, had to be firm against Malaysia and Indonesia.
Lee Kuan Yew.
Indonesian politicians were quick to react to these statements. Djoko Susilo of the National Mandate Party (PAN), said Yew was a big liar, and:
We are very upset because it has disgraced Indonesia. We will ask the government to send a letter of protest to Lee.
He said that Chinese people were able to work in any area, including the military.
We even have ministers and MP’s [who are Chinese].
Amris Hassan of the Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P), bemoaned the harm Lee’s statement would cause to internal Indonesian cohesiveness, and intra-ASEAN relations.
It is very dangerous for our unity because the false feeling of some people here will be justified, and they will think that marginalization really exists. Beside obstructing our bilateral relations, the remarks also hinder the process of establishing the ASEAN community.
Amris said Lee should issue a public apology and explain himself.
October 2nd.
An apology was forthcoming. The Malaysian government’s demanding of such an apology was successful with Lee Kuan Yew saying:
I am sorry that what I said has caused you a great deal of discomfort. ….it is the last thing I wanted.
in a letter to Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.
193 Comments on “Discrimination Against Chinese”
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Dragonwall says:
The currency meelee that caused some Asian countries to collapsed in actual fact was started by Soros who actually placed substantial portfolio funds known as the Quantum Funds into Asian speculation and was perhaps backed by the US Treasury.
It started by attacking the weakest country and a chain reaction started when most Asian currency trying to rescue their currencies got caught off their feet.
Mahatir was thought to have said that if he was the US he will have Soros arrested. That was why Soros was quite afraid of setting foot in Singapore and Malaysia. The furtherest he went was Hongkong. Malaysia then peg their currency US1.00 to MR4.00.
Singapore kept quite and was waiting for the right opportunity.It was also a known fact that Singapore was the centre of currency attacks against its neighbours and Temasek (owned by Singapore government) could have participated in the speculative frenzy.
Temasek is a Holding company that does investment. And rescuing their currency is to no surprise.
After all
Before the May 1998 incident, Singapore government knew well before hand that this was apparent and sent in SAF (Singapore armed forces personnel) into indoneisa to rescue their countrymen in embassies and many indo chinese.
so Singapore was prepared for the worst the was about to come and it actually did, so that was why the Singapore was very much left untouched.
At that time US was afraid of the five up and rising countries in Asia and US had a deficit of 30Trillion. How did they got up on their feet to zero out their deficit. IOU or time deposit that could be converted in DD, T-Bills and T-Bonds with variable interest rates. This time deposit will eventually mature in 20 years somewhere around 2016.
When the time arise it will just be like Japan when the bubble burst.Correct me if I am wrong, Sputjam.
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The true history of Singapore hasn’t been written
The history of Singapore had been written many times over. It was how Sir Stamford Raffles landed in Singapore, the Japanese Occupation and Singapore was transformed from Temasek, to Lion City to Singapura to being part of Malaysia and to what it is Singapore today.
She was governed by Chief Minister David Marshall (the last I heard he was the Ambassadr to France and perhaps retired) then Lim Yew Hock who sold Christmas Islands to the Australian.Habibie followed suit by being the only person to let a political opposition go with an intention, but this guy got lucky when he seek refuge at the English Embassy. He also gave Timtim away from Indonesia to an excon to run a new country. He made alot of promise but ended up in a lot of excuses. How did he fare? Was Timtim better than before? Or is it just that a country could print their own passport and inviting investors to that place then saying they are not treating the indigenous well enough to make the country prosper.
No one leader of a country, who posses high intelectual thinking as Habibie, does this except people who were afraid to fight back or afraid of losing his seat does that.
Aceh was given autonomy. Maluku was fighting for independent.Truth is, the british built Singapore into what it was today. But Lee Kuan Yew, being an egoistic person he is, claimed credit.
The British did not built Singapore into what it is today! When Singaporean took over and becaome independent the state coffer was almost empty. This is similar to HK when the Chinese recover HK from the British rule in 99, they emptied the coffer by building the Chek Lap Kok Airport.
It is the Singaporeans that made what Singapore is today. I have not heard that LKY had stake any claim for credit. Jayaratam kept fighting LKY by making unfound accusation that ended in him either being jailed or fine and paid compensation for libel. Many claimed, in fighting the PAP, that they are able to lead Singapore but have not proven anything. I am not pro PAP but logical thinking. If you run a huge corporation and is doing very well when suddenly someone come along and say I want to take over, if this is your company will you let him do that? The answer is a big NO. You might tell that person don’t even think about it.
The same as running a country, there are so much at stake so do you think possible? Unless a person/party can prove otherwise with track records etc, no one will put the lives of millions at stake.
This is exactly what happened to Indonesia. Islamic and Political parties claimed they will do the best by snatching power from one another. Many were induced, coerced into believing that these people are doing for the best of the Indonesian interest without ever introspecting the outcome in event of a failure. Total Destruction.
Suharto, though many say he is corrupt with his cronies, had proven beyond shadow of doubts that he had brought Indonesia into the limelight of the world in development and leading Indonesia into prosperity. Lets put aside the corruption crap for while okay!
When Suharto was being elbowed and he didn’t budge, someone think they are so smart by staging protests like KKN and etc, then coup d’etat took place which usually takes place in Middle East or European countries, African and the Eastern Block. It was hard to believe it happened in Indonesia. From there on it was changing from one president to another like Habibie, Megawati, AR Wahid to SBY. Its like a pupet show changing clothes and appearance but nothing inside was changed.I may not be one that like LKY very much but I think it is fair to comment on the results rather than making things out at random.
Throughout his career he did what is best for a country and that progress was seen by Singaporean and the world 30 something years over, and many projects development had received worldwide attention. like Changi Airport, MRT, Causeway, The tallest hotel, SIA, and others.
Lets make it look like Singapore is a huge corporate. When he was about to relief himself from the post he had Lee Hsien Loong understudy Goh Chok Tong. Place people he trust that would not failed the Singaporeans. When everyone is confident that he is able to assume his position they push him up. Why Singapore has no opposition parties? Yes there are, but how many of the Singaporean trust their capabilities. You can just call out anyone who makes a claim and let us see if their academic qualification and political experience rings a bell.
No Singaporean will want to have their country run by someone who only make claims who has no experience and deemed unqualified to run the lives of millions of people. We also have to think of setbacks, chain reaction and affecting neighboring countries because everything will change rapidly into a new facet of unfamiliar endeavor.
Does the Indonesian political leaders care?? How? They are only interested in achieving their goals with whatever they could, false pretence, deceits, promise that was meant to be broken, incapable of performing their best by putting blames on others, create diversion etc. When it come a time there is someone who really could perform the job, he could only began picking up rubbles with limited resource.
They always use democracy as the main topic in creating confusion. Tell me and everyone, after that much presidents political elite changing hands, how much democratic is Indonesia?If the Indonesians, like they said the Javanese are patient, they should have give time to consider instead making an irrational and emotional move that most regret today.
Before when you walked into a tempat makan you spend between Rp:750 to Rp:3,500. Now its like Rp:7,500 to Rp:25,000 just for a cheap lunch!.
Mulia hotel used to have a beffet like Rp:25,000 which was raised to Rp:40,000 to Rp:60,000 and God knows how uch it is now. The Mandarin Hotel lunch will cost about Rp:15,000 but how much is it now?When we make comparison will make sure that comparison will be better advice and perhaps implemented, suggested to be put into good use. I certainly will not agree that bringing up topic for comparison to satisfy a person’s ego can help a country improve.
I hope if any of Indonesia’s political leaders who also watch this forum can put things together and let Indonesia have abrand new start.
Forget about corruption for a while, forget those cronies for a while.
When you write a story you need to have pen and paper, so I suppose how it is to start!One more thing
Jayaratam kept fighting LKY by making unfound accusation that ended in him either being jailed or fine and paid compensation for libel.
What LKY was compensated was donated to charity.
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One must understand the mechanism in tax structures and home affairs. So tax has nothing to do with rich and poor.
Tax is to mandatory of which the percentage will by and large depend on the commodity itself before having it implemented and whereas rich and poor is to politics.
Rich and poor:
Indonesian implemented BBM while Singapore enforce a consumer tax beside dutiable items. Indonesia does not differentiate what commodity meant to go under BBM and what to be considered essential. Whenever they can get hold of something basic essential or otherwise they just levy a tax on it.
Can anyone explain how come the price of rice, salt, cooking oil, sugar etc had a steep price hike that the poor have to buy chicken or duck feed for their staple? Forget the excuse of poor harvest. The price for such essential, whether you are rich or poor, you pay the same price for the same thing. The current situation is such that if there is a price hike the rich can afford whereas the poor can’t afford it. That was how the general public became easily manipulated and coerced into taking part in the riot. This was also one of the thoughts by some political elite in such a way when the poor rob the rich they could level them out and close the rich poor gap. They are short of telling the public how many times could they repeat their action. I suppose such idiots thought by having the pris robbing the Chinese the pris could get rich! The end result was devastating right. “Semua hancur ngak karuan kan!” Besides that hyperinflation sets is and stood still. Nine years after the riot it doesn’t seemed to get better or having under controlled. Instead it got worse and worse to and extent the rich gets richer while the poor gets poorer.Simple layman’s term:
Rich gets richer = Businessman/businesswomen doing business hoarding or new take in on the same commodity at the same price were sold several fold to cover fluctuation and currency exchange loss. When it went into their favor they gets richer. Most of them hedge between currencies, interest rates and commodity futures to minimize and limit their loss.
Poor gets poorer= ordinary workers working on the same salary facing currency devaluation and price hike will find it difficult to cope with the price with their salary. Before hyperinflation sets in with their salary they still could have some saving but when it sets in their salary will not be enough to pay for essential let alone any savings.
This is a chain reactionary mechanism. So what must be done to eliminate tax problem on the essentials? What must be done to lower the standard of minimum living for the poor so that they could live on without exerting any burden on their family that is deemed unwarranted.
Whatever the rich wishes to do then it has nothing to do with this program.
Once this is implemented what must be rectified further to substantiate the loss? The rest is protocol.
The president will have to supercede the Custom & Excise in revising all taxation. Bulog must come directly under the hand of the president. Import on all essential comes under the scruitiny of the president.
KEEP THOSE TAX, BEA CUKAI AND BULOG CORNIES OUT OF SIGHT. -
Syonan says:
When Mr. Lee Kuan Yew speaks of “discrimination” against the Chinese in Indonesia and Malaysia, he is still living in the past and its time he fade away from politics and government and pave the way for the younger generation, time for you to move out, Mr. Lee!
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When Mr. Lee Kuan Yew speaks of “discrimination” against the Chinese in Indonesia and Malaysia, he is still living in the past and its time he fade away from politics and government and pave the way for the younger generation, time for you to move out, Mr. Lee!
Is he still living in the past? Didn’t he make way for the younger generations? Aren’t thatl a prevailing subject?
Sorry to say, if your grand dad tells you something, will you ask him to move out?
Let us not pretend that discrimination does not exist.
Here everyone is trying to make this topic in general to go away by trying to find out a solution so that the Chinese does not suffer any further persecution with continuous discrimination. Whether Indonesia or Malaysia it is immaterial.
Let see how do you stand in this topic of discrimination against Chinese. -
Earlier there was Ram who express the following:
– Saudi Arabia is discriminative against Chinese (yeah! those f*ck*ng yellow people don’t believe in one god, our god, Allah, who sent THE book and our prophets”¦, and they worship dead people, just like the Hindus. Why would we let such kafir run the country?).
– Almost all other countries in the world except China, Taiwan, and Singapore are discriminative against Chinese.What do you mean by “(yeah! those f*ck*ng yellow people don’t believe in one god, our god, Allah, who sent THE book and our prophets…, and they worship dead people, just like the Hindus.)
As far as to who runs the country Indonesia, it’s secondary matter, remember not primary.
Someone did mentioned that you were either an Indian or Middle Eastern descend, and my analysis is that you might have migrated and or perhaps born in Indonesia which puts you in the position as the Chinese and the Malays or Pris. Ain’t that right!
There are Chinese in China’s Xinjiang and the north western part that embrace Islam, correct me if I am wrong.
Mohamad is only a Prophet right? God was interpreted in several way by Chinese, Christians, Muslim, Hindus etc in the own language. And in this matter Allah is the terminology use by the Muslims.
Please enlightened me as to why must the Chinese believe in your Allah. You called Allah your God and make it sound as though it is everyone’s god.You also make it as though the Chinese are worshipping the dead like Hindus or idols. That goes to the same as Christians! And “Pri’s like you want to claim to be one” says that they are not worshipping idols or dead or perhaps inscription, right!
To me it is just interpretations of each group or individuals.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not a Christian or Muslim. But let us compare and you tell us the difference between Jesus and Mohamad.Try enlightened everyone with your knowledge about religion.
1Q: Which religion appears to mankind at the earliest stage?
2Q: When was Allah born?
3Q; When did Brahmaputra evolve?
4Q: When was Budha born? 500 BC right!
5Q: When was Jesus born? 1 AD right!
6Q; When was Mohamad born? 500 AD right!
7Q: Why is the Moslems in the Middle East always fighting and the Palestinians are always trying to take Bethleham which is located in Isreali soil?Moslems considered Bethleham their holy place and so did Christians whose Bible says Jesus was born there.
Are the Moslems trying to tell the world that Mohamad was also born in Bethleham?I am quite sure you find that difficult to answer. So just because you embrace Islam you started to make balsphemous remarks at others?
You were even more knieve by saying
As an Indonesian, my stand is: he’s not someone to be trusted. I’d say he’s a master of deception and stealing. So I’d rather just ignore him. I don’t know exactly what the motives behind his statement, I don’t think it’s something good for Indonesia
How is LKY a master of deception and stealing! Aren’t you deceptive yourself? Arn’t you trying to steal? You are en even worst racist of your own kind.
I speakfor myself and say if a person with simple knowledge and common sense will understand that because of the ever existing presence of discrimination against the Chinese, the Indonesian Government, were incapable or unwilling to take any action in the face of predominantly pris,should do something. Each time the government tried to do something he/she is bound to face the Islamic clerics objection.
Words that were expressed are always meant for each individual to interpret in their own term and how best one can understand a conversation.The Indonesian’s had a saying “Tong Kosong Nyaring Bunyinya”
So what say you.
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Sputjam says:
Dragon wall said :-
The British did not built Singapore into what it is today! When Singaporean took over and becaome independent the state coffer was almost empty.
Keith Patricks, the author of “ousted” wrote :-
Singapore has USD400million in reserve upon merging with Malaysia in 1961, which it refused to share for nation building, particularly as Malaysia had to assist poorer sabah and sarawak into the fold.
Dragonwall asked :-
Moslems considered Bethleham their holy place and so did Christians whose Bible says Jesus was born there.
There are no holy places in Islam, either bethlehem or mecca.
debating with islamic religionist on this issue is futile as they have been brainwashed into thinking that they are guided, when in fact, they have diverted Big Time away from the truth. What you see in palestine, Iraq, sudan etc are the result of their arrogance in thinking that they are correct.dragonwall asked :-
Can anyone explain how come the price of rice, salt, cooking oil, sugar etc had a steep price hike that the poor have to buy chicken or duck feed for their staple? Forget the excuse of poor harvest
Rice production in Indonesia cannot compete with similar rice produce in thailand and vietnam. Hence an import tax in imposed in order to protect local rice farmers. Similarly for other crops, except palm oil and rubber, which the Indonesian learnt to cultivate in huge numbers courtesy of Malaysian plantation companies.
But protecting local farmers meant that cost for consumers increase, and opportunities for smugglers to make a killing.during the time of Suharto, Petrol and diesel were heavily subsidised. But don’t forget, the poor do not own cars and factories that consume such commodities. It was the rich and middle class that bebefitted most from this act, which ultimately broke Pertamina. But the biggest benefeciary of diesel subsidies were the smugglers, who sold for three to four time the amount to neigbouring countries for silgthly less than world market price (mops) and kept the profits from this illegal trade in Singapore.
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Indonesia need to close the gap between rich and poor quickly. Otherwise, the “peasant uprising” which happened in china on regular basis may happen again. I do not have to tell you who will bear the brunt of the violence.
Currency have to be stabilised. Wealth evenly distributed. The best way to impose this is to establish an ASEAN currency unit, within memebers of ASEAN, a common stock exchange, with secondary board based locally for smaller companies. That means Bog corporations get listed on ASEAN stock exchange leaving the smaller ones within present system.
Reason why above suggestion was given is to dilute political hold on currency and businesses.
With stable currency, more investment will follow and authorities in Indonesia can focus on wealth building instead of diverting their time on forex trading. -
debating with islamic religionist on this issue is futile as they have been brainwashed into thinking that they are guided, when in fact, they have diverted Big Time away from the truth.
This is what we need to know that if these Islamic leftist or rightist making such statements are aware of “the truth”..
Rice production in Indonesia cannot compete with similar rice produce in thailand and vietnam. Hence an import tax in imposed in order to protect local rice farmers.
Yes I am aware of this but it is for us to make sure they know where the problem is!
In addressing to this, we are aware the government is aware but refuse to make way to accomodate.What is the difference in price be it Thailand, China, Burma etc etc? What is there to protect the local farmers when there a national crisis.
Reason being when local farmers makes a harvest they are selling the same price absorbed by Bulog not the retail price which was by and large being manipulated by Bulog or businessman.
In actual fact the government could just do away with the tax without having to levy it on the commodities. They need not subsidize at all.To recover the tax they could, like I said, restructure the tax in such a way on other non essential commodities.
Restrict Bulog especially the person who is in charge to ensure he does not collaborate with businessman by setting a price. Level the price between import and local. This will eventually increase the income of local farmers. If local price is Rp:500/kg. Import Rp:650/kg. Raise their income from 500 to 650.
THESE ARE ESSENTIALS SO THERE IS NO WAY TO DIFFERENTIATE WHETHER THE PERSON IS RICH OR POOR.
SIMPLE DEDUCTIONS WILL TELL US THAT THE LOCAL FARMERS WILL NOT SUFFER ANY LOSS AT ALL. THE IMPOSITION ON TAXES WILL ALLOW THE FARMERS TO SUFFER MORE BECAUSE THE COMMODITIES THEY SOLD TO BULOG AND THE PRICE THEY BUY BACK WILL SIMPLY INFURIATE THE FARMERS. WHY? THE GOVERNMENT BOUGHT HIS COMMODITIES AT 500/KG AND THE MARKET PRICE IS RP:1,250.Like cengkeh, correct me if I am wrong with the figures. The farmers sold to cigarette manufacturer at Rp:17,500 when BPPC was set up the cengkeh was bought with the same as promise and at times was bought at a lower price but resold to cigarette manufacture at Rp:30 plus /kg.
When the area collection office received the cengkeh the farmers were given an IOU of the former price. Money was then manipulated before payments was made to farmers and some was not even paid with excuse that it had rot or the BPPC collapsed. On the other hand the price sold to cigarette manufacturers was too high therefore the manufacturer refused to buy the cengkeh and the cengkeh was left to rot, some 70,000 tons of the cengkeh. That eventually led to the collapse of BPPC who owed BBD something like US600 million dollars. Where does all these money goes?
Just compare the few who sat in Bulog like Bustanil Arifin etc etc and we will be able to see it more transparent where the problems is like the cengkeh.
Lets say I am well aware of these transactions that took place. Like the devaluation when the rupiahs was 500 = 1 US and the next day it is 1000 = 1 US. Many of the pris became rich overnight. That was not enough for them. But because some who did not have the share of the cake when situations started to brew.
The new SBY government must take the necessary action and precautionary measures before it gets too late to remedy the situation.
It will no longer be a catastrophe but like someone said a “ho.ho.hola. claus”. -
Dragonwall…I don’t really know where you hail from but the way you are describing about Singapore it seems that you are a Singaporean. If you are a Singaporean, then you do know well what is happening within Singapore and we should not proceed further cause that “guy” has all eyes and ears on everything that is said and done. One wrong move, no matter where you are, it will crawl and take action. So much for democracy these days.
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Yes I am and I am unperturb by that. If I am really afraid, of speaking out and is referring to the truth, then I will be using several ISP relay to cover my tracks.
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Indonesia need to close the gap between rich and poor quickly. Otherwise, the “peasant uprising” which happened in china on regular basis may happen again. I do not have to tell you who will bear the brunt of the violence.
There is no way of closing the rich poor gap in Indonesia when illiteracy is the common factor. Reason being that these people will be easily coerced, induced or even tricked into believing what those in the elite (be it Muslim cleric or militant) and political arena say and making them believe is like having a cup of tea.
The Indonesian government must, SBY must give the order not Jusuf Kalla, step in to undermine hyperinflation by overcoming the shortfall in essentials and the basic needs of the people becomes top priority. The working class must be able to substantiate their income when a minimum standard of living is created to allow those below the blue collar that their livelihood is given top priority.
This will have to start with suppressing the price of staples. Businessman would be given a leverage of approximately 20% of the set price by the government. The 20% they receive will cover for cost of operaration and bank loan which ultimately they will only be making between 5 to 7 % like in gold.
Once this is stabilize the next step must be done is to appropriate the category for tax to be levied on BBM not those crap. Workers below the blue collar be tax under the NPWP with a minimum taxation be it Chinese, Indians, Pris whosoever. whereas the white collars up to a certain scale in salary be levied slightly more and whereas for businesses they will have to concede with a minimum up to a maximum of 40% taxation. This will eventually cut off the under the table tax deal with PKP, except those under tax holiday and foreign investment. When businesses are not too havily taxed it will also reflects if they are a go public company there will still be profit as for those none public listed company which make up to 60% of the business will prevent capital flights.Currency have to be stabilised. Wealth evenly distributed
This is unlikely to hapenned. The government will not simply do handouts unlike what Singapore did. This is what exactly like you say Singapore broke off with Malaysia.
The government also can’t go around asking the middle and upper class to contribute their wealth to others. This will cause a panic and an even worse capital flights will set in togtether with more exodus of humans leaving the poor who will eventually lynch on the government and ultimately cause the government to fail and fall apart. When that hapenned no foreign aid will be able to rebuild Indonesia which will drift even more further backward.
The government should implement a window time for things to work out like pay rise in government sectors, public and civil servants. Cut the cost for government spending and expenditure for the DPR and MPR. If it is really DPR and MPR they represent the people then they must be willing to sacrifice and help the government out by convincing the people what they are doing is for the people. At least for a start. But the army, police, navy and air force they must be well paid but not over paid. They can’t have the equivalent to other countries like Singapore or Us. But substantial increase is good enough. Reduce military expenditures. Reduce the price of gas and petrol. This does not only serve the rich but a large sector in industrial homes etc. Jealousy have to be set aside.The best way to impose this is to establish an ASEAN currency unit, within memebers of ASEAN, a common stock exchange, with secondary board based locally for smaller companies
This is also unlikely. Unlike the Euros where their currency and development are on par. It is like pooling resources and backed by foreign reserve. Each country set in their fair share on share and share alike with very minimal difference. each time when one country had a setback and or be sabotage from outside predators, all other participating countries will give them full support on real time retaliation. They need not recall currency instead they will go all out to exonerate the perpetrators. The US tried on several occasion by using several means in an effort to topple the Euros but they were rescinded and was counter attacked causing the Euros to go higher. When you try and short the Euros and when there is a cupport and a bull sets in it just go higher. same as vice versa. But the reverse will definitely cause the economy to overheat. And a cooling process sets in and a see saw will be seen and that is bad for progress.
Indonesia needs to have a foreign investment arms, like Temasek, not those by the BI. The more efforts BI take in trying to support the Indonesian Rupiahs the worst it becomes. Simple reason the Indonesian Rupiahs is already weak and unable to withstand any foreign economic sabotage, so by selling foreign reserve to buy the Rupiahs to set it afloat will further cause the Rupiahs to weaken further in due course. (We spoke of the bull earlier.) Indonesia should set aside a different set of investment mechanism specially design to seek investments separately from BI. When the foreign earnings increase automatically the Rupiahs will stabilize. Confidence by investor is the word. They will bring in foreign currency and convert into rupiahs for their investment in Indonesia. When the rupiahs stabilize around 7,500 the government will set in the second phase t push it down to 6,000. Now around 9,000 is the best time to boost foreign investment because in due process the investors will find their investment going up several fold. This is what they term it as a viable ROI.With stable currency, more investment will follow and authorities in Indonesia can focus on wealth building instead of diverting their time on forex trading.
Investment should come in before the currency is stabilize. When it is stabilize by the government then the investors will see the fringe they are getting from their investment.
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Investors are looking for security like in China. If Indonesia is able to provide max security for foreigners then let the Rupiahs drift to exceeding 10,000 while on the other had suppress the essentials.
It will come a time during this course of progress, Foreign investors will be attracted on an even large scale. Cost of production gets cheaper, export rise, encourage locals to purchase products made in Indonesia.
This was what hapenned to China. Yuan weaken, attract investors. Yuan stabilize together with security, productions and export grows. Yuan boost further investors see their reali time investment increase in fold and a further attraction of foreign investment follow suit.___________
After this economy stabilize, people were at ease and less tense, then the rebuilding of the country will be shorten to a time frame by half.
If you look at statistics BI was actually eyeing for the Rupiahs to be level at 7,000.
NOW! This dream is impossible. BI wanted to push it down by selling foreign reserve to acquire and help boost the Rupiahs, right! Why? so that they could acquire more foreign currency at a lower cost to increase their foreign reserve!
This all go in circle. If we have to concede to defeat then so be it. You can’t go loggerhead against it because it will hurt further.At one stage Singapore currency was close to par with US but export drop GDP reduce economy overheated. so the cooling process took Singapore quite a long while when Singapore purposely let their currency level out to 1.5 SGD = 1 USD and they were still loosing the grip to attract further investments.
Comments please.
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Ihaknt says:
Dragonwall…wow, judging from your comments, is it silly to ask if you are…Chinese? 😉
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Dragonwall…Your comments sounds more like you are Mr. Lee Kuan Yew himself in disguise!
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From the start I said I am commenting based on the viewpoint of the topic and if it helps the Indonesian and be put to practice, at least I offer my help.
There were some that doubted and made unmanly remarks. That is individual view point which I have dismiss but to prove my point so I am the least bothered.
I live in the US. You can get the host to check my ISP address. Yes I am Chinese. I am a free thinker and I do belief in religions. And I do business engineering and knows something about socio politic as I also used to work with financial institutions taking up several positions and I consider myself is acquainted with economic super structure.
But I am definitely not Mr. Lee Kuan Yew and the nick I used are the restaurants chain I set up in the US. I need no disguise.
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Dragonwall,
THE GOVERNMENT BOUGHT HIS COMMODITIES AT 500/KG AND THE MARKET PRICE IS RP:1,250.
your analysis on plight of Indonesia farmers is spot on, if based on my observation in the palm oil sector.
The owners of the palm oil refineries actually do not pay cash to farmers for the palm oil fruit bunch, but gave them coupons instead. This coupons could be redeemed for cash after several weeks or days. But as the price of palm oil fruit bunch is sold cheaply to the owners of the refinery, the farmers had to sell their coupons to loan sharks, for instant cash, depressing their margins even further.
I am surprise that the people of jakarta are not aware of these practises, which smacks of feudalism. Are there no members of parliament from the provinces who are humane enough to bring these matters up?
Indonesian and Thai farmers suffer the same fate. Both countries are under the control of the traders who lives like kings in jakarta or bangkok.Indonesia needs to have a foreign investment arms, like Temasek, not those by the BI.
Are you joking? It is better for government not to indulge in businesses, but to act as a governing body and to ensure fairplay amongst businesses and to stop the poor from being exploited. After all, which private entities can compete with government run companies on a level playing field?
Investment should come in before the currency is stabilize. When it is stabilize by the government then the investors will see the fringe they are getting from their investment
It is already streaming in thought. In indoneisa most banks are now foreign owned, huge tracts of jungles have given way to giant plantation companies, most telcos are also foreign owned, including satelindo (minority shares held by singtel). I have not encountered any other ASEAN countries which have opened up so much? But then, there are no other ASEAN countries that needed foreign currency/investment as badly as Indonesia. Only in the petroleum business (Pertamina) which seems to have some problems with foreign oil majors, which inherently, caused Indonesia to become a net importer of fuel.
In the case of currency, if it is unstable, the cause of instability will add on to the cause of doing business, i.e. hedging etc. manufacturers do not like currency yo-yo’s.
The fact is that individually, ASEAN countries are not big enough to challenge India and china in investment. Even ASEAN companies are dumping money into these two regional giants. In order to challenge these two countries, ASEAN Common Market must be formed.
The idea of an ASEAN common market cannot be implemented without a common currency. if asean common currency cannot be impelemnted, then I suggest all asean currencies be pegged at a fixed rate between one another. Thus if one currency falls, it will dragged other members into it and if one rises too steeply, it will also drag others upwards. But as all currencies are pegged, the fall and rise will not be too steep upwards or downwards, providing stability manufacturers want.A common stock exchange too should be set up for bigger companies within ASEAN with a limit on minimum maket capital. stock listed on the common stock exchange can be traded by any stock broker within ASEAN. Thus a phuket broker can buy and sell Singtel stocks or INDOSAT, or a broker in BALI can do likewise on GENTING or SIAM STEEL.
Stable currency means more manufacturing investments, equates to more job creation and more taxable income and inherently, more money for government to spend on the poor.
All dividends and profits from manufacturing are tax exempt, including those owned by locals. All payment for raw materials should be made in cash upon delivery to alleviate small businesses and farmers from being exploited by the loan sharks and large corporates, or factoring facilities managed by local banks could be utilised at commercial rates.
But maybe like what you said, instable currencies may be caused by BI to enrich themselves. Looks like Indonesian elites are too entrenched in exploiting their own kind than to commit on long term stability and growth.
The poor exploited pri’s blames the chinese for their plight when in fact, the authorities too are involved.There is no way of closing the rich poor gap in Indonesia when illiteracy is the common factor. Reason being that these people will be easily coerced, induced or even tricked into believing what those in the elite (be it Muslim cleric or militant) and political arena say and making them believe is like having a cup of tea
Indonesia has a high literacy rates (UN reports). But bogged down by feudal thinking and selecting leaders who are not qualified. Time and again, religious leaders get huge amount of support from the masses. These scholars will only exploit the Indonesian people, just like any other elites.
Are there any Indonesian willing to work for the people, and be of the people. Based on present circumstances, I doubt it. Even SBY cannot control the rampaging civil servants and army personnel exploiting business opportunities at the expense of the rule of law. -
Hi Dragonwall…at least you have owned up yourself but one thing though instead of using the “Discrimination Against Chinese” for putting your points on how Indonesia is to develop it better to have it under a new subject and I think that the moderator of this forum would not mind to it and those who venture into this site. As I am myself a former Singaporean I have did much to improve things where I am domicile in Indonesia and I am happy things have change for the better. Thanks for venting your ideas.
Once again, lets all not discuss about discrimination against the Chinese because I have seen that this does not happen anymore and further more the Chinese in Indonesia is treated as pribumi and is considered such hence let us all move towards the betterment of Indonesia itself and to have this moving the current legislation on investments in Indonesia should be reviewed by professionals and a draft put forward to DPR for approval. We cannot allow those who were elected to the DPR to make amendments as their competency in this field is in doubt hence instead of making things better it will make things worse. If legislators in Indonesia are sincere in seeing the country progress, they should review all the current laws of the country because the current laws is holding back the progress of the country. Hope that my point is taken up and I do wish to see my adopted country move forward.
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Rockroad says:
Ram,
It is very obvious Mr. Lee’s statements is true and correct, even he didn’t mention it the whole world knew about it. If The Great Chinese in Indonesia were not discriminated, why can’t they keep their Chinese name? Where are the Chinese School? Why forced Chinese to change their name to Indonesian in order to get a goverment public service job. Chinese, Indonesian, irnian, saudi or even iraqi don’t have to change their name in order to get in the government, and do whatever they want and freely as a citizen in the US.
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Raden says:
Syonan, you said you were a former Singaporean who adopted Indonesian citizen? Bad luck for you. And you declared there is no longer discrimination for the chinese?
How old are you?
Are you malay or chinese race?
Are you Muslim?
If the answer you are chinese and not Muslim and you are in your fertile age to make your wife pregnant (but don’t try to create mess with any Aceh woman & make them pregnant there, the punishment is very severe!). Then try to have a new baby born under your ‘tionghoa’ status, I wanted to see what happen when you have to report to your Kelurahan & ask for Birth Certificate?I pity on you, such an idiot decision, converting your Red passport becoming the Green passport? Even the malay Singaporean refuse to hold the green Indonesian passport, but you were surrendering your red passport? Either I don’t trust you or you make up the story indeed.
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Hing says:
Can you name me one or a few nations with majority chinese discriminate Indonesian Muslims and malay Muslims in their respective countries the same ways non-chinese Indonesians & non-malays discriminate and persecute chinese in Indonesia & malaysia?
How much do you actually understand the meaning of discrimination & racism?
In malaysia, can you say malays aren’t racist against chinese malaysians?
NEP, the National Economic Policy are designed to marginalize non-bumiputras especially chinese in a pretty subtle way so that to avoid instant chinese hostility towards malay government.
Indonesian’s government is even more evil! It openly forced chinese Indonesians to relinquish chinese names, dissolves chinese schools, exterminates chinese culture, etc.
Why didn’t Lee Kuan Yew expel all malay singaporeans? malay Singaporeans are also allowed into politics, military, police force and commercial then why are you blaming LKY?
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Malaysia is a muslim country with many states had adopted Syariah Law since long time ago. The tradition of Islamic orthodox has been deep rooting since decades. Uniquely a Chinese Malaysian tycon who came from Fujian to Malaysia and becoming rich because of Genting Highland casino, the owner is Lim Goh Tong who died on 23 Oct recently, he had the top ‘Tan Sri’ national award title from Prime Minister of Malaysia in 1979. Everyday in the Straits Time of Singapore papers put up the RIP of Mr. Lim with his Tan Sri status. A very prestigius status in Malaysia which is a muslim fanatic country who can not condone GAMBLING as formal business. Yet he received the tan sri title in glorify rest in peace and it is declared by country as a respectful entrepreneur who hv contributed significant GDP to Malaysia.
In contrary, it is a huge different between Malaysia & Indonesia. In Indonesia, every single Chinese conglomerate who possesed huge business will eventually became ‘the enemy of the country’ as default although none of them are in Gambling business.
Indonesian have transformed being as a bunch of hatred people, former presidents former conglomerates are always end up with their ugly story … what ‘s wrong with Indonesia ? if you rich in Indon meaning you rob this country … this is Indonesian mentality. -
Lee Lee says:
It is absolutely true and 100 percent correct of what Mr Lee Kuan Yew said about the discrimination against the chinese in Malaysia. I respect him for his courage to tell the absolute truth. To deny the truth only reveal one’s WEAKNESS and lose one’s respect!!!
Just take a look at any government’s departments, universities,scholarships just to name a few and ask yourself honestly how many percent of these are awarded to the chinese. If you are honest to your yourself then I am sure you will agree with Mr. Lee.
The malaysians are very sensitive and reacted like a child when they are being criticised instead of accepting it gracefully and working on their weaknesses for a better tomorrow. -
A person who possess 30 something years of political knowledge in Asia, won’t be a person that talk rubbish.
Compare some of Asia’s political leaders i am certain none whomsoever is capable of such achievements.
Besides some hickups upon some commoners, I find no reason to believe Singapore discriminates her own people. To say Malaysia and Indonesian marginalize, or discriminates the Chinese is a request for self introspection on a broader horizon. You don’t want history to keep repeating. If it does then that country is hopeless and is not improving. Malaysia and Indonesia needs to work a way out in term of law or culture or religiously to be more rational and by offering towards educations and ensure racial harmony.
ten years from now, Malaysia is still what they are right now the f**k**g Mahatir attitude and Indonesia is still the same old story. Endless circles of lies and excuses. Reality never make it’s way to the table.In the SBY government it was always that short VP that is making a lot of noise and no one else. All those that did were really those jp.
If Singapore have a bigger land mass their developments will be beyond words or imagination.
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Moi says:
I’m a 3rd or 4th generation of chinese indonesian. I have never felt discrimated, not until the riots of 1998. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that I did/do not live in Java (I’m originally from Manado). But again, the riot was almost 10 years ago, and let’s face it – we should focus on the future and not the past.
All in all, there are a few things I still found strange (don’t get me wrong, I’m a proud Indonesian. Been living overseas for the past 12 years, but when asked what I am I always proudly say I’m Indonesian, without the emblem ‘chinese-indonesian’ as many would do). Things like: why did my parents have to change their chinese last name into an ‘indonesian name’, were not allowed to celebrate chinese new year (not until what year was that? can’t remember), chinese new year cards were illegal to be sold in shops, and chinese-language schools were banned? Paperwork things as mentioned by Rudy Hendra were true, as experienced by some of my relatives. But all these have changed to the better in the past years- chinese new year are publicly celebrated even as a ‘tanggal merah’ in the calendar.
I have Indonesian friends in different shades, pribumi and non-pribumi. Never crossed my mind that I’m looked at differently by them, or vice-versa. All I know is we’re all Indonesians. There are so many things to do and to improve in this country (economic development, quality of education, infra-structure, health system, public transportation, pollution, and millions of other things), that makes me think the issue of pribumi- and non-pribumi is so much pale in comparison.
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Pakmantri says:
Moi said:
………………. hat makes me think the issue of pribumi- and non-pribumi is so much pale in comparison.I agree it should not be an issue, but it is a very handy political tool. 🙁
There is an interesting article in Sinar Harapan about this issue if you are interested in why it become an issue.
Salam.
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Simon Sinaga says:
I am chinese indonesian. Discrimination to indonesian-born chinese is completely true, too bad pm lee didn’t investigate it 1st before sent that apologize letter.
Have u ever being throwed with stones ‘coz u r chinese? Have u ever being smacked on the head ‘coz u r chinese? Have u ever being pushed from the bus and fall to the street ‘coz u r chinese? -
Moi
Let me tell you this, and that is I hae handled so many Indonesian papers that I can memorize what was written on them.
I have never felt discrimated, not until the riots of 1998.
Then I think you should go back home take a close look at your birth certificate of your grandparents, parents and yourself and take a close look at the very top to see what was written there After the word Kutipan Catatan Sipil, then Akte Lahir then what “Warga Negara……..”.
As for you realizing the discrimination after the 1998 riot that you realize such discrimination existed and comparing the power struggle scapegoating the Chinese, you should read the article in Media Indonesia about what the Navy Commander at Cilandak saw when he was in the helicopter and how the Indonesians were being exploited into participating in the riot that was manipulated by Prabowo and Wiranto and how his troops in Cilandak was being enlisted by Commander of Kodam Safrie Syamsuddin to be attached with the Kopassus that he felt compel by recalling troops from Surabaya to save Jakarta and foiled the coup. If not for him then God knows how many days the riot will continue. When Wiranto realized that his attempt had been foiled he later replaced the Admiral with a new Commander by Wiranto.
It is widely known that Wiranto, Prabowo were in a powere struggle and together with Safrie Syamsuddin they were Anti Chinese. The riot was actually a political ruse in their power struggle. Many had taken ignorance as an excuse by choosing to ignore the reality that there are still many many officials in high ranking position still possess the hatred towards Chinese by citing various excuse and continue to discriminate the Chinese. Till this very day there were reports that files awaiting at the Jaksa Agung’s office were missing came with such a coincidence that it smells that someone very powerful and high ranking up there does not wished to be implicated like Muchdi in the case of Munir. And pressure was building up that such tricks were resorted at a high security building at the Ministry of Justice. Careless! No, it’s done on purpose.
As for the apology letter, I sense that Lee Kuan Yew had made it out of goodwill and not because he is unaware of the situation. Do you really feel that a person who graduated with A’s in Law backed by (his wife), with a double AA’s in Law from Cambridge, and his son a Harard and MIT graduate did not do his homework? I am sure you were still unaware about the Staatsblad 1917, 1919 that is still being use by the Indonesian Government. What they are doing is face value only and that is to pacify the Chinese that is still in Indonesia and that nothing was abolished at all.
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Purba Negoro says:
Dragonwall,
here are some unpleasant historical facts about Chinese:
Chinese
Chose to come to Colonial Indonesia
Chose to participate in Racially Discriminatory Coloial System
Chose to participate and migrate for economic self-enrichment
Chose to participate in a Racially discriminative system that benefited themselves in terms of status and social values.
Chose to be colonial collaborators
Chose to Use, abused and traded in pribumi slaves
Informing?
Price gouging?
Hoarding?
Predatory usuary?
Clannism?Chinese are the most dreadful racist of all:
“one white covers a hundred defects” and all that tripe.
Northern Chinese hate brown Southern Chinese, and Manchu are considered the most beautiful. Why- pale like whitey.“Malay so lazy wan lah”
This common Chinese racism was first printed in a pamphlet- Perusahaan di Kudus written by teh Chinese Tan Boen Kim where he imagines himself as a Muslim among Arab traders, stating they “are jealous of the more successful Chinese entrepreneurs and want to take revenge on them for their losses due to their own faults”.
(Chirit, 1997: 203-208)Chinese millionaires, having made their money from Indonesian and Malay plantations (forced labour, indentured labour, confiscated lands) created a club:
EE Hoe Hean- for millionaires to fud anti-Nationalist movements in Malaysia and Indonesia- particularly through the veil of anti-Japanese activity- worried they would lose their plantations and economic monopolies.
Japanese aggression in Manchuria and China in the late 1930s caused anxiety amongst the Chinese in Indonesia who set up funds to support the anti-Japanese effort. Dutch intelligence services also monitored Japanese in Indonesia.Pramoedya Ananta Toer:
“With the arrival of the Japanese just about everyone was full of hope, except for those who had worked in the service of the Dutch.”
page 45: “…the [sic Chinese run] opium farms again provided the lions’ share Chinese run TAX FARMS [sic in Netherlands India] represented a quarter of all revenue in 1820s… by 1870 there were more Chinese involved in TAX FARMING that there were Dutchmen in government service…
page 47: “Crey mentions that large number of attacks on Chinese TOLLGATE keepers and traders in the Javanese princely states of the 1820s as their demands on revenue from peasants increased…”facade business for fraudulent loans underwritten by other front-companies?
running to Singapore and DBS/OSDB with ill-gotten gains?
abuse of credit and LOC’s?
leveraged debt?
white-collar crime?
obtaining Aussie/Canadian/US refugee status through deceit and lies?
noodles made from criminally expropriated USAID wheat?
profiteering from carcinogenic tobacco?
gambling dens?
destruction of forest for palm oil?
former opium croppers?
the mega-brothels of Kota?
industrial size amphetamine labs?
highway robbery though low-grade generic pharmaceuticals?
Illegal importation of goods- incidentally hurting other Chinese (ie textiles and basic household commodities)
Barong Sai?
Crappy Chinese wayang?
Beijing Opera which sounds like cats mating on a barbecue?
Frog-leg soup?
Hunting endangered species trade- especially tiger pelts and bones, ivory for a barbaric and primitive totemic “medicine” (shamanism would be more accurate)
Illegal logging- especially of Makassar ebony to the Chinese factories? (latest Wonogiri illegal logging was entirely a Chinese operation)
Turtle poaching?
Industrial illegal fishing (long-lining) and overfishing even in Australian,Chinese in Indonesia= imposed, uninvited, illegal immigrants consisting of a self-destructive and nett destructive middleman minority solely focused on petty bourgeoisie aspirations and trappings via insatiable materialism.
If you no like lah, go home meh!
But somehow I doubt any would return to Southern CHina where the peasants originated. -
Ish says:
Beijing Opera which sounds like cats mating on a barbecue?
LOL
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Here is the lastest,
Melamine Poisoning : They like to cut cost wan lah, now many baby die wor.
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fullmoonflower says:
Just remember the history…. Every single king of majapahit always had a mistress / selir from China. Even Maulana Malik Ibrahim, the father of Wali Sanga, his first wife is chinese, and he even had a chinese name : Tan Eng Choa.
Peace..peace..
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DXP says:
DXP can not understand this, despite of the southern china is much much more developed than Sidoarjo, Banyuwangi, Riau, Kutai, Jayapura, etc .. if PN said is true if he is doubtful the Indon chinese do not want to go back home town, I think because the minority there (I see them as no longer chinese as unable to speak mandarin and lost the china tradition) have successfully blend with the locals. Taking out this reason and putting the economic, culture, religion perspectives … Indonesia is not an ideal place for china man , we like drinking, mahjong & sometime casino, we do not hv to pray 5 times a day, we eat pork with variety of sauces & cooking styles, I am very very sure it is a torture to live in Padang – Tangerang – Solo (the JI center of gravity in South East Asia), Aceh, etc as a chinese man.
Second point, if Indonesian majority don’t like chinese minority, then create another bigger riot like 1998 to scare them, you can rape the chinse girls during ramadhan as her flesh & smooth sexy skin are halal for your prey to enter the heaven
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Hi Ahmad,
seems you are not emotionally embroiled in this discussion.
Mahathir has similar conclusion in his book “malay dillema”.
Truth is, the british built Singapore into what it was today. But Lee Kuan Yew, being an egoistic person he is, claimed credit.
For any country to prosper, tax collecting must be to notch. Otherwise, there will be a huge gulf between rich and poor. It is no secret that the chinese in Indonesia do not remit money back into the country from exports., but channel their funds into offshore centres such as Singapore. hence the reason why trade between Singapore and Indonesia is official secrets in Singapore, and why Singapore benefits more from Indonesian resources than jakarta.
Before the May 1998 incident, Singapore government knew well before hand that this was apparent and sent in SAF (Singapore armed forces personnel) into indoneisa to rescue their countrymen in embassies and many indo chinese.
It was also a known fact that Singapore was the centre of currency attacks against its neighbours and Temasek (owned by Singapore government) could have participated in the speculative frenzy.