Atheist Threat
Oct 10th, 2008, in News, by Patung
Young atheists on the internet, and eradicating atheism and communism in Indonesia.
Governor of North Sumatra, Syamsul Arifin, said on 8th October at an occasion marking Pancasila Day that all elements of the nation must continually fight against and eradicate atheist beliefs among the people.
Atheism, which seeks to erase Pancasila and which once threatened the nation in the guise of the Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI), and still does, has to be guarded against, particularly because it still finds support among sections of the poor.
Syamsul said children should be taught from primary school through to university to hate atheism, so that the creed could as far as possible be obliterated.
A 4th ‘T’ – Rakyat tidak ateis.
The butchery of the atheist-PKI backed murderers of the September 30 Movement of 1965 (G30S PKI) could not be allowed to happen again, he said, hence the need to struggle against atheism. beritasore
Young Internet Atheists
On the internet at least some Indonesians seem happy to declare themselves as unbelievers.
Running an “affiliation” search on the social network site Friendster.com for “atheist” brings up about 144 matches friendster.com, while “ateis” produces 185 odd results friendster.com, although more than a few seem to be claiming to be atheist as some kind of joke.
On the same site, created on January 23rd, 2007 is the “Atheist Indonesia” group friendster.com, with 76 members and a fairly active message board, and some of its members seem to be active in an Indonesian language Atheist Wikipedia. ateisindonesia.wikidot.com
1,311 Comments on “Atheist Threat”
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Jakartass says:
I’ve just got round to reading it and wondered what Ross had to say. Apparently he’s speechless (for once).
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yaser antone says:
Be an ubermench,
Create your own religion which suits you and never accept any convert. Always put the past behind never before you. Never be a follower, be a creator. The thing you should remember is : having no religion means that you at the same level with Neanderthal or homo erectus. So never waste your time just create one, only for you. -
Eko says:
The trouble with countries like Indonesia is that they associate secularism with atheism.
Successful countries aren’t necessarily atheist, but they acknowledge that keeping faith and state separate won’t make the people godless.
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Patrick says:
IResearchers: Ancient human remains found in Israel
AP – Mon Dec 27th, 2010 6:13 PM EST
JERUSALEM -” Israeli archaeologists said Monday they may have found the earliest evidence yet for the existence of modern man, and if so, it could upset theories of the origin of humans.
?
A Tel Aviv University team excavating a cave in central Israel said teeth found in the cave are about 400,000 years old and resemble those of other remains of modern man, known scientifically as Homo sapiens, found in Israel. The earliest Homo sapiens remains found until now are half as old. ”
As we all can see from the above the Evolution Theory grip on science continues to weaken.
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AP News Flash on 12/28/2010 stated that a tooth fossil of a homo-sapien was found in Israel that dated back to 400,000 years. What? How can that be? The accepted theory from the Evolutionist crowd is that man is only been around 200,000 years. Wow! Does this mean man didn’t originate in Africa? Once again Darwin’s Theory is weakened and discredited by an all mighty God……. 🙂
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Yongky says:
Not necessarily true, biologists have said time and again that modern men (homo sapiens) have been around for an estimate of 200-450 thousand years. Richard Dawkins spoke of this on one of his lectures in late 1980s. If that finding is true, then we should hear more of it from leading researchers and scientists down to anthropologists. Since nothing is heard since, I guess that news is just a hoax. And it gives no reason to doubt the theory of evolution.
Back to the topic at hand, I believe that a clear separation between state and religion in this country is a must. We’ve never seen an Ambon president much less a Chinese one because there is an unwriteen creed that every president must be of Jawa decent and have to be a Muslim. How can anyone consider that as an act of upholding the values and virtues of Pancasila?
Politics and religion need to be separated and every political campaign needs to be monitored as to avoid the use of any religuous attire and message in it to gain support. And yes, atheism should be allowed tp flourish in Indonesia for the same reason why we need to fund more scientists in this country to do their research, because the future of every single individual living in this country depends on their own ability to think critically and question everything to advance our understanding of how things work and originate!
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Oigal says:
AP News Flash on 12/28/2010 stated that a tooth fossil of a homo-sapien was found in Israel that dated back to 400,000 years. What? How can that be? The accepted theory from the Evolutionist crowd is that man is only been around 200,000 years. Wow! Does this mean man didn’t originate in Africa? Once again Darwin’s Theory is weakened and discredited by an all mighty God…
Actually No Patrick, if true it simply strengthens issues of Evolution (gee still amazed at stomping of the feet ..does not does not).
Anyway what was yours..6000Years and 1/2 dozen of the chosen on a leaky boat..yup that’s the one we should teach in schools for sure 🙂
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@Oigal – what I hear about your country lately, your going to need to borrow that leaky boat (Actually, kidding aside, my sympathy goes out to all Australiens caught up in the floods devasting huge areas of the country).
@Yonky -1. Scientist around the world have been preaching for decades that Evolutionary Theory is accepted dogma for all serious scientists and academics. They have mapped out and blindly followed Darwinism to the exclusion of all other explanations concerning the origins of life on this planet. They have ridiculed and often bullied any in their rank who dared questioned evolution and/ or embraced any aspect of Intelligent Design Theory. How convenient of you to declare it a hoax as if this important discovery will magically disappear so that many decades of trying to piece together a false illusion that man evolved on his own can continue. The excavation work continues in Israel and other evidence has been found that links the people in the cave to modern man.
2. I agree with you its better when politics and religion are seperate. Howver, I think you go too far when you suggest that monitoring is always necessary to eliminate religious messages and attire. One must be careful here as this type of activity (restricting religious message) tends to infringe upon the right of free speach which is one of the lynchpins of a free democracy.
3. Your message about the need for atheism to flourish in Indonesia while simutaneously you call for restrictions in religious activity is dangerously close to defining yourself as a hypocrite. Hati-hati kawanku!
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to the exclusion of all other explanations concerning the origins of life on this planet.
Actually no just to the exclusion that some mythical creature decided in his spare time to knock up some naked apes out spare ribs and other left overs. Intelligent design remains the fall back position of the literal creationist still worshiping the Gods of dark dark corners that have yet to be explained by science. Fortunately, those dark places are getting smaller and smaller every day.
It does astound me that people can honestly reject evolution, when it is occurring around them every day.
As for Australia, one has to wonder which achieved more those who prayed or those who built the levees.
As they say..”Give a man a fish you feed him for a day, Give him a fishing rod and you feed him for life, Give him religion and he will starve to death praying for a fish”
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Lairedion says:
Your message about the need for atheism to flourish in Indonesia while simutaneously you call for restrictions in religious activity is dangerously close to defining yourself as a hypocrite. Hati-hati kawanku
Basically you’re right however given the current state of Indonesian society (and this brings us all the way back to the very topic of this thread) there’s no freedom to be an atheist, an agnostic, an Ahmadiyah Muslim, a gay/lesbian and loads of other ideologies/religions/positions. Atheism/agnosticism is often even a no-no with your own relatives. The intolerant knee-jerk reactions of these two morons in North Sumatra whenever the topic of atheism and/or agnosticism is raised, I’ve seen it all before.
Maybe one day you begin to understand what this is all about. It’s not about ID vs. evolution theory, religion vs. atheism/agnosticism. It’s about freedom of thinking and being the person who you want to be. You enjoy that freedom in Miami, in Indonesia unfortunately many don’t, both in public and in private.
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@Lairedion – The culture of Indonesia is dominated (90% of people are Muslim) by the influence of Islam. The answer to your questions lies wthin Islam itself.
The Pope’s recent remarks at Regensburg included;” God”, he says, “is not pleased by blood – and not acting reasonably is contrary to God’s nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death
Inside this statement the pope reveals the core difference between how the West and East perceive God. The West see God as reasonable and therefore He must always act rationally in all situations. However, Islam views God as Transcendent and therefore he is never limited and can act rationally or irrationally as He pleases. Think about this Lairedion and you will begin to understand
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Gods acting rationally?? Oh I think Christianity does not fare any better than Islam in the hate, torture and intolerance stakes. The difference is secular laws have pulled the teeth of the very worst of those religious excesses.
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@0igal mmmmm? Have we not already discusses how Godless utopian workers paradises quickly dissole into Totalrian regimes? Sheesh when will you add something new and worthwhile to a discussion?
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Think about this Lairedion and you will begin to understand.
I’ve thought about it and understand this:
It’s exemplary for you ignoring this god from the RC Mafia (who apparently is not pleased with blood) needed strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death to forcibly convert many innocents worldwide (especially in Latin America).
On a side note, Capo Ratzinger has yet to take strong measures against widespread pedophilia in his “famiglia” by excommunicating all perpetrators and report them to authorities.
What is god doing here, acting rationally? 🙂
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I dunno…perhaps when people like you stop using the same old cliche’s to try and make a point.
Most people would think RC and Islam amongst others are pretty good examples of despotic regimes. Rather a silly point actually, do we really need to list off religion dominated nations with abysmal human rights….
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@Lairedion – Yes, once again we are all impressed by your intellectual abilities. You leave people astounded!!
@Oigal – Touche’ you really know your subject matter well and however limited that may be. 🙂
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oh come on Patrick..make it fun 🙂
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@Lairedion – Yes, once again we are all impressed by your intellectual abilities. You leave people astounded!!
You always have that tendency to overvalue my intellectual abilities, Patrick. I really appreciate that but it’s too much. I mean, the RC Church’s dark and brutal past and present, it’s happening all around us, like Evolution. No need for intellectuality to witness that, just plain common sense.
But thanks anyway, Patrick…. 🙂
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@Lairedion – To quote from the old “Dirty Harry” movie (Clint Eastwood) “A man’s got to know his limitations”. Let’s just say after reading Oigal’s and your responses to why I thought your lament concerning lack of personal freedom in Indonesia was rooted in Islamic philosophy, I saw how limited I was to attempt serious discussion. It left no doubt that anything worthwhile to discuss would be pointlessly wasted on two superior beings like yourselves. Your ape ancestors would no doubt be very proud that “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”. 🙂
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“I saw how limited I was to attempt serious conversation”. For once Patrick we agree …
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“I saw how limited I was to attempt serious conversation”. For once Patrick we agree …
ditto
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@Hans – If you want to debate Quantum Physics as a proof of the non-existence of God than lets do it here on the forum where it belongs. I am so surprised that you could be so disorganized in your thought process to think that it belonged anywhere else on IM?…ha ha ha!…Now prove your point if you can?
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Not up to Hans to prove a negative Patrick. By the way where was your crutch as little children drowned and were maimed in Japan. She is a bloody thirsty deity I will give you that.
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@ Oigal – Was it Lucy who used to call Charlie Brown a blockhead? ha ha ha! Anyway dear girl here is a recent quote by Han’s that appears on Open thread “Quantum physics, I have had as a main theme in my life now for a long time, and quantum physics can now prove how wrong religions is” Hans said it and now let him prove it! Unless of course you don’t think that its possible?
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That’s twice now in your last two post you have resorted to pathetic personal insults because someone happens to disagree with your tooth fairy crutch to life. If you think arguing such a topic as Qphysics with someone who obviously uses English as a second language would help your cause to prove a negative then how desperate you must be for validation. Meanwhile in plain English, where was your bloody thirsty bitch in Japan.
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@Oigal – That’s rich considering the source! Why are you defending Hans so vehemently? He made the statement and he should defend it. You obviously cannot and hence the reason for your disrupt, attack ,and divert tactics. Tell me, since when is using English as a second language a credible defence here on IM since its an English language forum? Do try to contol your temper tantrums and stick to the topic at hand which is Quatum physics 🙂
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@Oigal – and I will work on my spelling…ha ha ha! Believe the last line in my previous post should read Quantum physics and not Quatum……Hey nobody’s perfect … 🙂
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Wow! Oigal has been finally put in his place after badgering people on IM for years. That alone is proof that there is a God 🙂
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Laugh..Keep praying Patrick…footy was on and was waiting for my foes to be turned to salt…of course once again on the balance of probabilities it didn’t happen but we did prove the existence of the Easter bunny.
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It will only become a threat if there’s a dictator or emerging out of it. As we all know there are dictators everywhere, regardless of their religious views.