Expats
Oct 3rd, 2006, in Society, by PatungOn the “quality”, or possible lack thereof, of expatriates in Indonesia.
Visitor Parvita, on the dating Indonesian girls article, makes these, somewhat stinging, remarks about expatriates in Indonesia.
I’ve gone out both with Indonesian and expat men (western and eastern) and my lesson to learn is: expats are just for fun and not to be taken seriously.
Most of them that comes over here, especially the westerners, are those who cannot “compete” in their country. And when they come over here, they make better living because our country pays expats waaaaaay better than nationals. Then they became like kings, thinking that they are superiors, and some girls fall for them. For instance, would you think a very successful and smart lawyer, or businessmen in England would move to a country like Indonesia? And the houses they live in in Kemang, when they go back to their countries, say, Italy, they will just live in a one bedroom apartment (or a studio) with no driver and a really small car, commuting to the city? The place I live and the car I drive currently is much much better than what they have.
I deal with lots of western expats, some of them are my friends. They told me that when they are here, they are handsome. In their countries, they are invisible. There you go, a confession from an Australian.
Some expats are even so obnoxious, having to live in the states for long, I know they are the loser kind but when they are here, they are surrounded by women and think that they are God’s gift to women.
When a smart, rich, independent Indonesian women dates an expat here, that expat must be a really damn good one! [bold added]
Certainly some home truths there, but the “Most of them…” part may not stand up to analysis.
520 Comments on “Expats”
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Ihaknt says:
Zaq, could it be they are not interested due to your personality..or lack of it? JUST JOKING SISTER. This comment was intended to upset you (this is by the way what you said in “Indonesian Women”, I am just repeating it) Peace out.
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Whopping 31 pages now, GOSH! Can’t believe this topic is the hottest one from all the IM articles! And it swings here and there, too, from the original posting! So fun to watch as the originator of the article! Peace!
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Zaq says:
Ihaknt,
what i know so far is people with good personality, and bad persoality. Is there anyone with lack of personality? Is it means insane? Or wrong term?
Your revenge is not complete, you only upseted me, but you didn’t make me think, as I did to you.
Gosh, I am afraid you will go thru that road again. The anger and accidentally slip into becoming fanatics. I did myself at “Bahasa Indonesia”. OMG, did you misperceive me there huh?
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Mohammed Khafi says:
Zaq,
I have read the thread, from the start, I was lucky enough to be the third person to comment on this back in October 2006!
The vast majority of the male bules in Thailand especially Phuket are sex tourists, they are not dating asian girls, they are walking around with commercials sex workers. I don’t really think they care too much about how attractive the girls look, they are looking for sex, not a long term relationship.
You specifically made comment about married expats in Indonesia, I was just pointing out to you that long term relationships and especially marriage, requires more than good looks, it requires a good heart, love, commitment and faithfullness.
You said:
My opinion is, male bules who were interested to pretty western look women will not come to Asia and dating Asian women. Male bules who dated Asian women are bules which taste are into the exotic looks, which, according to Indonesian, are the looks of villager women, to say impolitely, pembantu looks. Understand now?
Male bules who are dating Asian women, are those who are here for the longer term. They don’t come here because they are intersted in the exotic looks of the girls! They are generally here because their companies have sent them here to do a job of work. When they do end up in relationships with Asian girls it is more likely a matter of supply and demand, they don’t exactly have a surplus of their own type to date do they? From my experience they do end up with all types of Asian girls, dark, fair, fat, thin, tall, short, rich, poor, educated and uneducated. Love is blind is it not?
As to a personal attack on you, where? I was just pointing out to you a possible reason that Bules were not attracted to you, it was just an observation based on information openly published by yourself on this forum. It was not like your personal attack on Ihaknt where you accused her of being just like a Muslim fanatic with absolutely no basis other than your personal feelings.
Peace
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Zaq:
I am an Indonesian woman, but have a bule look and fair skin from my great great grandmother. What happen to me is, lots of Indonesian guys easily like me, while I am not so fortunate with bule guys. Not much of them interested to me.
I think beauty is globally translated across nations and oceans. I have also fair skin inherited from my family. When I still lived in Australia people couldn’t tell where I’m from, they guessed wildly from Japan, Vietnam, the Philippines, to a mix Australian-Asian. I don’t mean to sound cocky here, but Indonesian, Caucasian and other ethnic groups have had approached me. I don’t think attraction is something to do with skin color (maybe it is for the first 2 seconds) but it’s more the whole package. A descent guy would be interested in getting to know a beautiful woman, but once sitting down together and start talking, what’s beneath the skin actually matters. And chemistry cannot be described, when we click, we just click. It doesn’t matter whether we’re skinny, fat, bald, hairy, ugly, pretty, tall, short, or from which country. Usually relationships based on physical appearance don’t last long.
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Gee girl you sound like you’re sexually frustrated. That wasnt revenge. I am not spiteful. I couldnt care less if I didnt make you think. It’s obvious you dont. Take a chill pill or a nap.
Parvita, again, hats off! I’ve always loved your work girl! Cheers to you.
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Oh Zaq one more thing, if you read again I said ‘to upset you’, so I did. My bad. But yipie.
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Khafi’s syllogism:
Premis major: Zaq thinks that male bules are interested to pembantu looks Asian women.
Premis minor: Zaq thinks she is not so fortunate with male bules.
Conclusion: Zaq doesn’t have a lot of luck because she is just like rotten apple with great fresh skin.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the premis major is said by most Indonesian, beside, what is so wrong to have a taste to a villager looks ladies? However your premis major so far is acceptable. The premis minor is taken without knowing much about me. It is however, acceptable too. The conclusion? Impolite, reckless and hurtful.
Then I did an introspection. Only hurted heart could made such hurting conclusion. Probably I hurt you too. Which one? My saying that most Indonesian women married to bules got the look of pembantu? If yes, forgive me. This discussion is getting into personal, and it is not healthy. Let’s finish it. Deal?
Joking: I can make a reckless conclusion to hurt you to, like saying: you must be a bule and your wife must be looking like pembantu? Why you get angry? Do you regret that your wife is looking like pembantu? — Then this will go meaningless and stupid.
Ihaknt:
I thought there is already no hard feeling in between us. Why are you getting upset very easily? Be careful because it will lead you to a reckless conclusion like Kahfi: “Gee girl you sound like you’re sexually frustrated”. FYI, my last post is a joke. Sorry if it sound serious.
Kahfi and Ihaknt:
This is serious:
Tell me what is the difference between someone who judge the behavior of people in this century using values of the 5 century and someone who judge the behavior of people in the 5th century using values of this century? -
Achmad Sudarsono says:
Zaq,
I think you can fix your problems if you study the Pancasila. You seem to be confused. I don’t think it’s your inherent personality (which can be fixed by Pancasila). If you are a good Muslim, your inner self is fine. It’s the outer one that needs work. Please go to a Gramedia bookshop and get the appropriate literature. Oke friend ?
Achmad.
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Tammy Ho says:
Achmad, by far you’re my most favorite insulter :). Did you offer Zaq to be her personal shopper or make-up artist to fix her outer self so bule men are interested in her?
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Zaq,
It was you yourself who suggested that bule males are attracted to pembantu looking girls and I quote:
while those who came here were looking for the exotics looks, which, in the eyes of Indonesian, are the looks of villager women.
You also said that you were not so fortunate with bule males and again I quote:
What happen to me is, lots of Indonesian guys easily like me, while I am not so fortunate with bule guys. Not much of them interested to me.
The comparison with apples is a generality which applies to all of mankind, male or female my dear, why would you think that it was directed at you?
Now to the serious part:
Tell me what is the difference between someone who judge the behavior of people in this century using values of the 5 century and someone who judge the behavior of people in the 5th century using values of this century?
When people are judging the behaviour of the past whilst applying modern day standards, they may be incorrect as historical behavior has to be taken in context, but they are after all erring on the side of goodness. That hardly makes them Muslim Fanatics!
What is being missed in the argument that you and Ihaknt were having is that marriage in Al Quran and in the time of The Prophet, is not what we understand it to be now. It was a social contract to protect and provide for somebody. It would be more correct to say that The Prophet was engaged in a social contract to protect and provide for Aisha when she was a premenstrual girl, the same would be said for the older widows who would in all likelyhood be post menopausal. When he “married” again he entered into a social contract to provide and protect them.
This concept of a social contract is reinforced by the following verses from Al Quran:
“And if you divorce them before you have touched (had a sexual relation with) them, and you have appointed unto them the Mahr (bridal money given by the husbands to his wife at the time of marriage), then pay half of that (Mahr), unless they (the women) agree to forego it, or he (the husband), in whose hands is the marriage tie, agrees to forego and give her full appointed Mahr. And to forego and give (her the full Mahr) is nearer to At-Taqwa (piety, right-eousness, etc.). And do not forget liberality between yourselves. Truly, Allah is All-Seer of what you do.” 2:237
“O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them before you have sexual intercourse with them, no Iddah have you to count in respect of them. So give them a present, and set them free in a handsome manner.” 33:49
For these verses to have been included in Al Quran, the concept of a social contract rather than what we consider as marriage must have existed, although it is still translated as marriage.
Peace
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Read profoundly:
You said:
It was you yourself who suggested that bule males are attracted to pembantu looking girls and I quote:
While I already said:
the premis major is said by most Indonesian, beside, what is so wrong to have a taste to a villager looks ladies? However your premis major so far is acceptable.
You said:
You also said that you were not so fortunate with bule males and again I quote:
While I already said:
The premis minor is taken without knowing much about me. It is however, acceptable too.
So, what is the problem?
You said:
The comparison with apples is a generality which applies to all of mankind, male or female my dear, why would you think that it was directed at you?
While previously you said:
You are the same Zaq who recently posted that you were looking for extramarital dating are you not? Perhaps that is the reason that you don’t have a lot of luck with them?
It doesn’t matter if the apple is green or red, if the core is rotten it will not give you much pleasure eating it, better to eat a sweet fleshed apple which may have blemishes on its skin.
Inconsistence personality?
You said:
When people are judging the behaviour of the past whilst applying modern day standards, they may be incorrect as historical behavior has to be taken in context, but they are after all erring on the side of goodness. That hardly makes them Muslim Fanatics!
Who said so?
My post:
I am sorry I have to tell you that you are no different with that Moslem fanatics. Your way in judging the situation is just like the Moslem fanatics judging the situation. Moslem fanatics forcing the values of Mohammad era into this century, while you force this century values into Mohammad era. Never see the past form the future values, and never see the future with the past value. Otherwise you will get frustrated, or turn fanatics yourself.
This is my last post regarding this topic. It is tiring talking with people who are not listening (in this case, reading). Worthless and wasting time.
Ahmad Sudarsono: You as well.
Tammy Ho: Why are people who tried to be honest get insulted?
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Zaq,
Either I fail to understand you, or you fail to understand me, let others be the judge!
Peace
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Qazaqa says:
Either I fail to understand you, or you fail to understand me, let others be the judge!
I think Zaq failed to understand you. Me either. You are confusing. Zaq last message prove it.
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Either I fail to understand you, or you fail to understand me, let others be the judge!
Zaq failed to understand you, me either. You are confuse. Zaq last posting prove it.
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Me getting upset? Na. Where did you get that from? You’re the one who used the negative words i.e. revenge. Anyway, hope you feel better after letting out the rage. Now, if we were talking I’d be using an even tone, not yelling ok, so please dont misunderstand this one…it’s just in my opinion, after reading your posts, it seems that you were full of yourself. I mean you sound smart and all that, but a tad full of yourself, and very sensitive. Anyway, have a good one.
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Teng says:
As a bulek who has had three longterm Indonesian relationships I thought I’d might share my two cents.
Although I do know what Zaq means when she says: Bulek tend to fall for pembantu type girls, I’d like to (try) to adjust that image.
I think western people don’t particularly (or just) like the pembantu type, but they do tend to have a different opinion on what is ‘beautiful’. “we” don’t really like the “bleached” types. I have two model friends in Indonesia, and to be honest I consider neither of them really beautiful. What is considered beautiful in Indonesia, I often find so-so. Yet my first Indonesian girlfriend, whom I found very beautiful was considered so-so by my Indonesian friends.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The fact that my first girl was Javanse, my second Batak and my third (who I am proudly to say is now my lovely wife) is Chinese-Manadonese certainle “proves” that bulek dont just go for that “pembantu” look. However it also proves that bulek don’t often go for the “pemutih model”… and maybe most important of all… it also proves MK’s point that in the end it’s the inside that counts not the looks
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Teng, what’s bleached types? Albino? Can you please explain. Thx.
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Those who use ‘pemutih’, Ihaknt. You can identify them by seeing their face are white but their hands and legs are darker.
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Olip Bastupa says:
Guys,
I do remember someone posted a comment like this : “beauty is relative””¦., but “ugliness is absolute”… and in my opinion all those women cudling aroung bules in Phuket are all ugly, repeat… ugly…
I also believe, ugliness most often (not alwasy) followed by lack of self confidence, that’s why bule who loves ‘pembatu look’ as his partner most likely will have a superior feeling and he can ask (command) the girls to do whatever he wants (in term of sex).
If bule can see the beauty in asian women who have a pembatu look, then the question is… why those women only appear in Porn Movies but never seen them (even as a figuran) in hollywood movies?
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Tammy,
Shopping is easy. For men: Peci with sarung at home, for go out is Batik, for office is safari suit. For woman, daster, go out kebaya, for office, also uniform or safari.
But I didn’t mean Zaq’s looks when I said “outer self.” I was talking about her lack of faith in the butir2 of Pancasila. I’ve tried to encourage Parvita also to refresh some p-4. Maybe you should, too, Tammy. 🙂
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Oigal says:
I was wondering where Olip got his well informed opinions on relationships from and then
why those women only appear in Porn Movies
all become clear
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Come on Oigal… dont tell me you never watch those kinds of (what so called excotic girls) starring porn movies…
As an addition, I think bules who love (read: lust) pembokat is revealing the truth of him self, meaning they are just a low class, low IQ bules, for the smart ones, they will chose the true excotic girl – a tan skin women with a face like Kristin Kreuk.
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I feel sorry for those who can only see the outside and not beyond it. People dont get to choose how they look when they are born, but that doesnt make them less of a person. And to say if they go out with the ‘pembantu’ looks mean they are of a lower class shows that it’s actually YOU who are. Things are not always what they seem. Ati ati kualat Olip.
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I agree with Ihaknt, things are not always what they seem, what beneath is more important maybe aside of that “pembantu” looks those girls have the biggest heart of all.
Zaq:
I am an Indonesian woman, but have a bule look and fair skin from my great great grandmother. What happen to me is, lots of Indonesian guys easily like me, while I am not so fortunate with bule guys. Not much of them interested to me.
I have to disagree with you, I have friend who happens to have an Indo look and fair skin (from her great great grandfather) happily married with a Scottish guy. To name a few of fair skin Indonesian women who married western men are Tia Ivanka, Maudy Koesnaedy, Jovanka, Sophia Latjuba. I can make you a list of fair skin Indonesian women who married with westerner if you want.
You can see that skin tone is not a big matter here, what’s underneath is the most important thing of all.
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Indo look means mixed Indonesian and western
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dewaratugedeanom says:
Zaq said
I saw Indoesian wives married to male bule, most of them got pembantu looks. I think male bule who are not interested to Asian women will not come to Asia and dating Asian, while those who came here were looking for the exotics looks, which, in the eyes of Indonesian, are the looks of villager women.
Could it be that bule guys prefer kindhearted pembantu types because they are fed up being challenged and criticized by bitchy yuppie types?
Just a thought. -
Zaq said:
Zaq failed to understand you, me either. You are confuse. Zaq last posting prove it.
:-/ ????? Could Zaq also have a dual personality?
Peace 😉
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Come on Oigal”¦ dont tell me you never watch those kinds of (what so called excotic girls) starring porn movies
In all honesty, Since I was about 18 or 19 no I don’t (and even then they held my interest for about ten nano seconds. I would think that it is the same for most guys, its called maturity. If you have reached adulthood and still find that sort of thing titalating then perhaps its time you found one a real girl and beg her to teach you about respect for the opp sex.
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OMG Khafi,
how pathetic. I’ve told you to read the thread of this topic and definitely you were not doing it but keep insisting your point of view, which is still irrelevant. Worse, now you change the topic into personal by attacking the individual, not the opinion.
Gosh, now I have to go through this road explaining you in details, which is so tiring.
First, scroll up and find Olip Bastupa post talking about male bules in Thailand dating ugly Thai girls (bear in mind, this is Olip’s opinion, not mine). This post were followed by some nasty post laughing at those male bules. Got it?
Now, read again my post. I was trying to be objective. My opinion is, male bules who were interested to pretty western look women will not come to Asia and dating Asian women. Male bules who dated Asian women are bules which taste are into the exotic looks, which, according to Indonesian, are the looks of villager women, to say impolitely, pembantu looks. Understand now?
Now we go to the most tiring one, the personal things. About me. I never have a relationship with a male bule until recently I am intersted to make friends to them since I am married and having relationships with Indoesian guys are not save in some ways. If you want to know why, I will explain you in a different posting.
My conclusion that male bules are not interested to me were coming from skin deep experiences. Street experiences. I was easily getting attentions from Indonesian guys, but my pembantu looks friends were easily getting some attentions from male bules we met on the streets. We even discussed our experiences. But again, since it was not a scientific research finding, it is still a subject to discuss.
Hope you understand now and learn how to write a good post, learn the thread and never change the topics into attacking the person. It is impolite, and yet, immature.