520 Comments on “Expats”

1. taxpayer says:

   November 1, 2007 at 12:05 pm

   Sometimes I wonder of having teachers means much nowadays. Eberyone still will debate and dispute even historical fact.

   Achmad——The (A) above means answer. The HISTORICAL ANSWER to the meaning of “Touch of the tarbrush shrugs”.

   HISTORICAL means that it is recorded on verifiable documentation from the past.

   What you think means not a thing. What “Touch of the tarbrush shrugs” IS from, original contextual usage and intended use is the only thing of importance.

   The fact that people can use any word as in a bias, prejudice, racist and derogatory context is mute.

   For example: BANANA

   Now, we ALL know a banana is a fruit (Or shall we the debate this word?).

   BUT….I believe asians love to call other asians who act too WHITE or too much like FOREIGNERS “Bananas” because their skin is yellow but their actions are WHITE or BULE in character.

   Obviously, this is not what the word “banana” was intended to be used for as “Touch of the tarbrush shrugs” was not inteded to be used as a racist term towards black people.

   Fred Floggle is way off track in a lot of his/her opinions and right on the money on some. The reasons teachers are teachers is to CORRECT incorrect information. We also teach our students to not take things at a “moments glance” as being true or accurate.

   We preach STUDY, VERIFICATION and try to create pro-active aggressive students who actively search the TRUTH through all available resources.

   Granted that BLOGS are the equivalent of reading information off the bathroom wall in the men’s room, there are large volumes of truth and thought provoking ideas spread through blogs.

   This does not mean that we, as bloggers, need to add to the misinformation cesspool by adding our own misinformation and/or personal inaccurate thoughts that go against what has already been Verified as truth by numerous outside parties.

   FRED FLOGGLE:

   Here is Yesterday’s BUSINESS Section of the JAKARTA POST. Enjoy the reading. I think we can close the book on your discussion. It appears that Indonesians do INDEED know more about the English industry than you do. It would also appear that they also recognize the Extreme IMPORTANCE of English in today and tomorrow’s Indonesia.
   ________________________________________________________________________
   Finding a good English course in Indonesia

   Supplement – October 31, 2007

   Iqbal Widastomo, Contributor, Surabaya

   International education is now truly a part of the education scene here in Indonesia; and rightly so as we are so often reminded that this is the “era of globalization”. We have everything from international preschools to university degree programs, including masters programs that are run through international partnerships.

   There are, therefore, a great range of international education environments that we may be exposed to. Schools and colleges of different levels offer a variety of international programs and qualifications. But even with all this range and variety there is one common theme running through them all: the English language.

   This poses immediate problems for many prospective students and leads us to a pressing need to have access to English courses that can help provide the necessary standards required to a) gain admission into an international program and b) be able to actually study and hope to succeed.

   Many schools offer English as a Second Language support programs and Remedial English classes for students that need them, and this is good and really just meeting an educational obligation, but for other people it becomes necessary to seek out English courses to supplement and upgrade their English.

   Finding an appropriate English course can, however, turn out to be something of a mine field. There are a number of English course providers throughout Indonesia, some of which are franchised from language courses of international repute, while others are locally set up and managed.

   Whether an English course has international linkages or is just a local effort does not really matter, what really matters is being able to look at and analyze what these courses have to offer and so determine whether attending them is going to prove beneficial in the long run.

   What is generally needed is a well structured program that clearly identifies learning objectives and desired outcomes and maps a pathway for how the learner is going to get to them and achieve. Also, obviously, the instructional skills and all round abilities of the teachers are fundamentally important too.

   But it is important not to be fooled into believing that the teachers necessarily have what you need as a learner of English. Many English courses, for example, promote the fact that they have native speakers among their teaching staff. This, though, is no guarantee of either what you need or quality generally.

   A friend of mine recently sent his 11-year-old daughter to an English course that has a good name throughout a number of Indonesian cities where it has premises. He had been convinced by the spread of this school throughout so many cities and so felt reassured that his daughter would be well looked after.

   He also believed that the school’s promise of “native speaker teachers” would prove beneficial to his daughter in both exposing her to native speakers and gaining from their teaching knowledge and skill. He was to be disappointed.

   His daughter was scheduled to have three classes per week, only one of which was to be delivered by a native speaker. This was initially considered disappointing enough but later on that one class with the native speaker would prove even more disappointing.

   It soon became clear that while the person his daughter was meeting once a week was a native speaker, he was not in fact a native speaker teacher. He showed limited knowledge of the course book that was being used and worse still was only too happy to neglect it in favor of nothing short of time wasting.

   In order to encourage the students to like him, (but totally neglecting his duties as a teacher), this native speaker would in practically every session play games with the students.

   Now some games can be productive, where they are inclusive of activities that challenge the students to gather information and solve a problem, but this native speaker did not play those sorts of games. Instead he played simple “guess the word” games.

   Hangman and similar such word puzzles do not do very much to advance students’ abilities in the English language and they can be seen as an indication that the so-called teacher is too lazy to, or incapable of, offering more constructive and helpful instruction.

   Certainly there are benefits to be had from students having fun and enjoying using the language, but at the same time structured and disciplined ordering and development of language tasks and skills should be an integral part of any course.

   Before committing to an English language course there are, therefore, certain questions that could and should be asked. Before beginning a course a potential student will need to be tested to determine at what level he/she is going to enter the course. It is entirely appropriate to ask what the test material is and where it comes from.

   The quality of entrance test materials can give a clue about the quality of the courses that lie ahead. Also, the courses offered should be questioned, for example, is there a clearly defined pathway or pathways, such as beginner levels leading to intermediate classes and to advanced levels and/or even English for specific purposes.

   The kind of quality and clarity of organization of the courses offered can help assess whether or not the language school is well set up and professionally managed to help a student progress to some degree of competence in the language.

   Also, of critical value is knowledge that the potential student is going to encounter teachers that are capable, experienced and preferably qualified to actually teach. Just because a language school boasts of having native speakers does not necessarily mean that it actually has good teachers.

   In fact in the aforementioned example of a student meeting with a native speaker once a week it was actually found that the other teachers were the better teachers. Those teachers were Indonesian but they had much better knowledge and skill in teaching. This is where teachers with teaching certificates become important.

   Qualified and experienced teachers may not be easy to find but they can be invaluable in providing the right kind of input, teaching strategies and practices for students to really advance as learners of the language. With the demand for English ever-increasing more English schools are becoming available, but quality is not guaranteed.

   Potential students of English courses should, therefore, be demanding and challenging to make sure that they are getting good services and are getting what they really need to become users of the English language.

   The writer is a teacher of business management and English
   ________________________________________________________________________

   http://www.thejakartapost.com/yesterdaydetail.asp?fileid=20071031.Q06

2. Achmad Sudarsono says:

   November 1, 2007 at 12:12 pm

   Concerned English Teacher,

   Oh stop your wanking.

   There’s a big debate between those who think English should reflect changing real-life usage, and those who think it should stick to formal definitions bestowed by “professionals”. As you’re a “Concerned English Teacher,” in Jakarta no less, I’d say that your grounds for bestowing such legitimacy is, well, less sound than say, the commitee that presides over the Oxford English Dictionary. It’s certainly no stronger than the average educated user, just because you say you’re an English teacher.

   Eberyone still will debate and dispute even historical fact.

   So get a grip, mate (and stop your wanking). Read Burmese Days by George Orwell and see what some of the characters have to say about the phrase.

   But more importantly: read what he had to say about Brevity.

3. Jakartass says:

   November 3, 2007 at 12:53 pm

   Á propos expats, and English teachers in particular, frequenting ladies of the night, you may not have seen that four South Korea football players – Middlesbrough striker Lee Dong-guk, captain Lee Woon-jae, Kim Sang-sik and Woo Sung-yong – have been banned from the national team for a year by the Korean FA for drinking and cavorting in a, ahem, house of ill repute in North Jakarta during the recent Asian Cup.

   That the Koreans constitute the largest group of expats here is common knowledge (although not easily verifiable), and one can only presume that these four lusty lads had local escorts to the house of revelry.

   By the way, they lost the next day’s match against Bahrain 1-2.

4. Peter says:

   November 3, 2007 at 1:34 pm

   I wonder how I’ll be recieved when I go to Indonesia.. A black American.. Does that still qualify as “bule”? My friend said I look like I could be from Timor Timur. Menarik.

5. Achmad Sudarsono says:

   November 3, 2007 at 2:45 pm

   Peter,

   Sorry to harp on colour, but you brought it up. “Bule” specifically refers to whitey, cracker, gringo, melanin-deprived. The ontology, I think, can be traced back to “albino cow.” So, my friend, if you’re darker than a cafe latte, you ain’t no bule. It’ll be interesting to hear an African-American’s perspective in Jakarta.

   Best,

   Achmad.

6. Sam says:

   November 4, 2007 at 12:00 am

   What about expats in Indonesia that blog?

   Here’s what Unspun wrote about them today on his blog:

   Traditionally, the other source of news in English that comes out of Indonesia are blogs kept by expats (disclosure: Unspun is an expat, of sorts, who’s been living in indonesia for 10 years or more). There are some good blogs among the expats but most of them are droll and comprise of grouses about the country they live in, deprecating remarks about local women and mutual masturbation among unattractive expat men.

   Are expats really unhappy in Indonesia and what are the “deprecating remarks about local women“? as for the “mutual masturbation among unattractive expat men.“; are expat bloggers in Indonesia that ugly? Anyone ever met one? Mutual masturbation, does life get so hard up for the bule in the tropics?

7. Peter says:

   November 4, 2007 at 3:57 am

   Really, Achmad? I asked one Indo woman about this and she told me that “bule” was applied to any westerner in general, & that I would still qualify as one.

   I will be going to Yogyakarta, actually. Might spend a day or two in Jakarta, but all the rest of the time’ll be in Yogya.

   Do Indonesian’s have any stereotypes about black people? I know in many parts of Asia the racist stereotype prevails.

8. Achmad Sudarsono says:

   November 4, 2007 at 10:13 am

   Peter,

   Indonesians aren’t always reflective about their language. I think it’s a legacy of the “New Order” government (1966-1998) and it’s leader Soeharto, who tried to socially engineer people to be docile.

   Some people might use Bule to apply to all Westerners, but actually, it’s a bit of racist term, I think, even though the connotations (white, rich, privileged), aren’t necessarily negative. Once someone’s a bule, other people are pribumi (native Indonesian), cina (Chinese), or worse. It sets up thinking in racial categories.

   Unfortunately, there are quite a few stereotypes floating round about black people. But alot depends on how the individual behaves and carries themselves. One problem is Nigerian criminal gangs operating in Jakarta doing cheap scams and narcotics. These guys are real assholes and help to give black people a bad name. But once again, it depends on how the individual acts. I think though, a black person might have to work a bit harder for respect, but a positive attitude and simple courtesies go a long way. There are a lot of Black Muslims, after all and Islam is explicity anti-racist.

   Dude, I’m so sorry to have to talk about this sh*t. I hate it. But better you hear what’s going on. Really, very good luck and all the best when you get here.

9. Tuan says:

   November 4, 2007 at 12:27 pm

   Do Indonesian’s have any stereotypes about black people? I know in many parts of Asia the racist stereotype prevails.

   From what i’ve read, yes due to the exposure to Nigerian scammers and drug dealers on the street. You also have to consider that skin whitening cream is a hot item that sells off the shelves so that might allude to something.

   Another note, unlike some Eastern Asian countries, Indonesia is predominately Muslim and probably amongst the more religious class there’s probably some openness towards blacks due to Islamic stories of Bilal the Ethopian(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilal_ibn_Ribah) or the popularity of Muhammad Ali (According to Malcolm X, Ali was like David to the Muslim world… my grandfather in particular was a huge fan not because of his skin color or because of boxing but because of he was a successful Muslim “making it” in America).

   ~Tuan – Indonesian-American Muslim

10. Tuan says:

    November 4, 2007 at 11:01 pm

    Achmad Sudarsono, I am thinking of visiting Indonesia myself sometime next year. I have never been there in my entire life, neither has any of my family since they are overseas Indonesians. My parents never spoke bahasa at home because they wanted me to learn English to do well in school (My father has nearly forgotten). How would most Indonesians view or react to me since I look Indonesian but walk and talk American?

    ~Tuan Indonesian-American Muslim

11. Fred Floggle says:

    November 6, 2007 at 8:18 pm

    Are expats really unhappy in Indonesia and what are the “deprecating remarks about local women”? as for the “mutual masturbation among unattractive expat men.”; are expat bloggers in Indonesia that ugly? Anyone ever met one? Mutual masturbation, does life get so hard up for the bule in the tropics?

    Go read Jakchat and see what he means.

12. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    November 6, 2007 at 10:09 pm

    Fred, he was talking about the likes of you.

13. taxpayer says:

    November 7, 2007 at 2:42 am

    Fred and Achmad…the fact you two are still blogging on this topic is mutual masturbation.

    Selamat Malam amd Mimpi yang Indah.

14. Dragonwall says:

    November 8, 2007 at 6:39 am

    don’t see a difference if a well-educated expat who was sent here by his company or an English teacher ‘shags an under-age girl’. They are both exploiting the girls and are committing a crime.

    Ever think if he had a leased marriage.. arrange like those Arabs? Of course with the blessing of JK.

15. Zaq says:

    November 14, 2007 at 1:11 am

    Lesson learned for Parvita and every girls: don’t take every relationship with every guy seriously before you really know him. Don’t just consider his job, where he live, what car he has then you come into a conclusion and trust him. Finding the right one need time and patience. This is not just with expat guys, but with every guys. Learing expat guy become more difficult because they come from different places, different culture. You need more time and patience to learn his pesonality, but if you do it smart, you will never feel deceived.

16. iamisaid says:

    November 14, 2007 at 2:44 am

    Coming from an ambivalent posture regarding this topic, I consider Parvita’s piece merely that of a female rant.

    Her reasoning is flawed.

    It contains fallacies of logic.

    Both the Fallacy of Accident and Converse Fallacy of Accident apply.

    Fallacy of Accident = making generalizations which destroy the exception.

    Converese Fallacy of Accident = arguing from a single case to a general rule thereby destroying the exception.

    Going by the gist in the first paragraph, logically or otherwise, Parvita implies that Indonesian men are not fun and to be taken seriously vis-à-vis her acquaintances with expat men.

    ?????

17. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    November 14, 2007 at 7:57 am

    iamisaid,

    Interesting comment on logic. Were you inspired by Unspun’s post ??

18. iamisaid says:

    November 14, 2007 at 11:51 am

    Hi Achmad,

    What did Unspun say?

    I did not have the time to follow each and every respondent’s reply at this column – whopping 29 webpages in total. LOL !

    Cheers,

19. ar1el says:

    November 15, 2007 at 10:12 pm

    I’m an Indonesian girl that just bumped into this blog about an hour ago and read posts only on the first several pages. So forgive me if by any chance I repeat a discussion.

    On Parvita’s issue:

    Indonesia is a country that is heavy on Eastern culture values and doctrine. Though it doesn’t mean that Indonesian girls only sleep with their husbands, of course. They enjoy sex as much as girls from the rest of the world. However, because of the Eastern values that have been implemented in their mind, they unconsciously pretend they are shy about sex. They feel like they are good girls and the guys that sleep with them without eventually marrying them are only taking advantange of them.

    I told my American friend, a very smart writer from a top ad agency, that I am somewhat scared of dating a westerner since (my bad for stereotyping) most of them defining a relationship by sex. And they have sex drive beyond my imagination. He didn’t say anything but didn’t find it offensive either. Shame on me that I ended up fall in love with him. T_T

    My point is, there’s a gap on perception of sex between Western and Eastern culture. But only in perception. Not implementation. Got my point relating to Parvita’s anger towards expats?

    On the word ‘bule’:

    To tell you the truth, I didn’t know that bule is actually rooted from a word that means ‘albino’ until… 30 mins ago. I worked with great people when I was in the States. My collegues are like my family and I highly repect my bosses. Still, they are bule to me. My smart writer friend I mentioned above were being called ‘bule’ by all members of my family/extended family even though they knew his name. He just went, ‘whatever, I’m fine with bule,’ and later on wrote a sweet post on his blog about my family’s hospitality.

    So, yes, I don’t think Caucasians nowadays should be offended being called bule just because that word derived from a not-so-correct meaning. As it is in every language: evolution. So why dig back the root and get mad when we find out that it turns out not to have a meaning as happy as we expected?

    Two cents of thoughts.

20. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    November 16, 2007 at 7:40 am

    ar1el,

    I recommend the same treatment for your attachment to Bules that I did for Parvita:

    * Please study again the Pancasila. It’s butir-butir will help purify your thinking and let you see clearly: no need for bule.

    * Please also join the Dharma Wanita – they can instruct you in our Indonesian ways more properly.

21. Janma says:

    November 16, 2007 at 9:46 am

    Mad, give the girl a break! she just got here! I thought her post was good and made some good points.

22. Rambutan says:

    November 16, 2007 at 10:28 am

    Yes, good post, especially this part:

    And they have sex drive beyond my imagination

23. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    November 16, 2007 at 11:03 am

    ok.

    Sorry ar1el

24. Janma says:

    November 16, 2007 at 11:15 am

    good lad…. 😉

25. Olip Bastupa says:

    November 19, 2007 at 11:27 am

    Talking about Bule,

    I just came back from Phuket, I saw bule (the male one) wondering around Phuket town, beaches, etc with local girls, I can clearly see that 99 in 100 the locals girl are worst (super ugly women) compare to our pembokat, no offense but I am telling you the truth. I couldnt understand why those bules can have sex with those women, hmmm… maybe we are talking about services not faces 🙂

    If you dont trust me, just cath air asia to phuket and you will understand what I am talking about.

    Ta

26. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    November 19, 2007 at 2:13 pm

    Olip Bastupa, we are blessed with brown skin and perfect features. Indonesia won’t erode down the scale of cheap sex tourism by Bules as what is happening in the Phillipines and Thailand.

    I do not agree with many of the thuggery actions by FPI, but we do need them to keep ‘expats’ bules in line. Our women and children need to be protected.

    Salam.

27. Zaq says:

    November 19, 2007 at 10:19 pm

    Olip,

    I was not surprised reading your story, it is a matter of taste. I saw Indoesian wives married to male bule, most of them got pembantu looks. I think male bule who are not interested to Asian women will not come to Asia and dating Asian, while those who came here were looking for the exotics looks, which, in the eyes of Indonesian, are the looks of villager women.

    I am an Indonesian woman, but have a bule look and fair skin from my great great grandmother. What happen to me is, lots of Indonesian guys easily like me, while I am not so fortunate with bule guys. Not much of them interested to me.

28. Mohammed Khafi says:

    November 19, 2007 at 11:32 pm

    Zaq,

    Have you considered that the expats who marry Indonesian women may be looking deeper than just the colour of their partners skin?

    Peace

29. Zaq says:

    November 20, 2007 at 12:00 am

    Khafi,

    then the expats will marry to varied physical types of Indoesian women. See the thread of this topic, which talk about the trend of expats taste on Asian women. You just read my posting hmm? See the formers too. Is your comment still relevant do you think?

30. Mohammed Khafi says:

    November 20, 2007 at 1:05 am

    Zaq,

    Yes I do think it is relevant, skin colour doesn’t matter in the case of love and marriage, you were specifically talking about married expats and their wives.

    Perhaps the expats who get married, look to their prospective partners hearts for a little goodness?

    You are the same Zaq who recently posted that you were looking for extramarital dating are you not? Perhaps that is the reason that you don’t have a lot of luck with them?

    I am not of course talking here about those expats or for that matter indigenous men who are just looking for sex, appearance or what’s in a womans heart doesn’t seem to matter so much to them.

    It doesn’t matter if the apple is green or red, if the core is rotten it will not give you much pleasure eating it, better to eat a sweet fleshed apple which may have blemishes on its skin.