God Needs Spin Doctor
Sep 6th, 2010, in Opinion, by Guest WriterReligion is faith. Faith is an absence of Reason. Lack of Reason leads to the absurd.
When considering evolution, a debate kept alive by hardened theologists, facts are often misconstrued to the level of individualistic proselytization, highly probable the result of indoctrination none of which are scientific nor rational and too often misleading. Evolution never questions nor attempts to disprove the existence of a mighty supernatural being. It simply states that over time organism transforms by mutation. Biological based virus go through forms of mutation. It is a well proven fact. Even the ancient Greek catered to that idea.
However, this essay relates to another form of evolution. One that is specifically cognitive based: intellectualism.
With the advent of science, humans have progressed exponentially. Not only have we reached the stars we can also define in specific terms what a star is made of. Science is dynamic, what we have established today as scientific Law (eg, the Law of Gravity) can change as our technology advances leading to discoveries which may disprove the latter. That is the beauty of science. The Truth is a variable that can only be accepted as true when tested by varying intermediaries until proven otherwise. Whether Jane jumps off the Empire State Building or Fifi vaulted over the Eiffel Tower, their final destination is always down. Thus the Law of Gravity is True.
Religion, however, is the exact opposite. It is fixed, constant, if not latently updated yet still must stand to inquiries based on obsolete – some mythical – antiquities thus remain spiteful of modernity. The latter is true at least in the intellectual sense.
Consider the modern concept of Human Equality popularized by the General Assembly of the United Nation in 1948. The idea that one’s religion is equal to any other religion, therefore Allah is equal to Vishnu, will incite bomb threats from every Islamists all over the globe. Will the Christian exact the same reverence to the Islamic Quran as the literal word of God? One church in Florida plans to burn the Quran this September 11.
The Abrahamic religions preach everything is equal before the eyes of God. But it is not very truthful is it? It wasn’t true for the Ammonite and the Moabite. In the Quran, Allah turned Jews into monkeys and pigs. Certainly favoritism not equality is the nature of God. Accept Jesus and you will be saved. How about for the other billions of people on this planet who don’t?
When we compare the Acts of God in the Old Testament, the Bible and the Quran, it is apparent we, humans, have transgressed the greatest and most fearsome sin of all, we have evolved.
Consider Lot of Sodom. Both in the Christian and Islam tradition, when the hedonistic Sodomites insisted Lot gave away his angelic visitors, he offered his daughters instead. No human of high moral upstanding today would callously offer the flesh of his daughter to satiate the public’s lust. To prove his loyalty to God, Abraham without hesitation placed his son on the altar ready to slit the boy’s throat. Insanity would be Abraham’s best choice for defense in the modern court today. In the Islamic Hadith, Muhammad was documented to favor stoning for charges of adultery. Well, that issue is still an ongoing controversy on CNN.
Apologists will and very often debate that actions done or commanded to God’s apostles have temporal relevance. But isn’t God infinite? Should not God, by His Glorified Wisdom, guess that in a thousand years we will deemed such deeds as barbaric and inhumane? Wouldn’t have God foresee that by the twentieth century, us, humans, advocating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which condemns, pretty much a large percentage in His Holy Texts, as a crime against humanity? I would expect Allah to whisper in Muhammad’s ear to lay off Aisha cause she’ll reflect negatively in public opinion a couple of centuries later.
With the promulgation of Christianity of the Byzantine period in Europe, the old ancient gods were eschewed to obscurity. Now that we are in the twenty first century, humans once again evolved intellectually and outgrew their celestial lord. The One God needs a major upgrade to maintain relevance or hires one kick-ass public relation officer.
155 Comments on “God Needs Spin Doctor”
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bloody hell that was beautifully said oigal
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Oigal says:
Thanks M, even with the spelling errors…sorry about that on the run today..
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Lairedion says:
Just saw an article criticing the UNs inability to properly control the Congo as woman continue to be brutally raped in record numbers.
90% of the Congo people are Christian but the UN cannot stop rapes because they operate without God. 😕
The RC Church claims they’re the rightful Christians but they cannot stop child rapes. On the contrary they try to sweep their scandals under the carpet like they always have done.
Oh and for me, people do good despite religion not because of it. Its history through out the ages is one of terror, ignorance and oppression. Just because a number of hard fought secular battles have forced a more “human” face on the primary instrument of oppression in the world does not the litany of evil should be forgotten.
Agree with that.
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well…. since what happened in the former republic of Yugoslavia I kinda know that the UN is a bit like a tiger without teeth and claws, where were they in Darfur and where are they now in Sudan there’s a horrible genocide about to happen AGAIN right now, what did they do when the US invaded Irak illegally? Just more suits that cost a lot of money
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True, the UN is powerless in controlling conflicts, anywhere, anytime. Patrick argues this is because of its supposedly non-religious nature.
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i hear he’s organizing the UN crusaders?
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Patrick says:
@Oigal – whether you realize it or not we are no longer debating if Einstein belived in a Superior Being. That’s been established here and agreed upon by us. Now your argument is being focused on whose dogma is correct? In other words you have conceded the first point and now you want to shift the debate?
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Odinius says:
Agree on Einstein being highly inappropriate defender of creationism, but not on this:
Oh and for me, people do good despite religion not because of it. Its history through out the ages is one of terror, ignorance and oppression. Just because a number of hard fought secular battles have forced a more “human” face on the primary instrument of oppression in the world does not the litany of evil should be forgotten.
I think, when you spend a lot of time with religious people, you see that–like everyone else–they range in almost every possible way. Many do, in fact, come to charity and egalitarianism through their faith. Others come to zealotry, anger and even violence through theirs. Nor is being secular-minded or an anti-theist any guarantee of good behavior. While many non-religious are deeply humanitarian, others have given us darker episodes. Actually, most of the darkness in the 20th century came from secular ideologies, the 3 or 4 worst of which were also explicitly anti-theist.
That said, I do find things like dogmatism, intellectual conformism, in-group bias and zealotry–all of which are common within organized religion–disturbing. But I don’t think any of these things are necessarily religious, as you can find them among nationalists and devotees of certain political ideologies as well.
That said, I do think the most just states are those that simultaneously protect religion from the state, and protect the state from religion.
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This is because the UNSC sends soldiers meant to “keep” the peace into places where there’s little peace to keep. In Bosnia, a civil war, complete with numerous massacres, was going on. In Rwanda, a fully-fledged genocide.
If the countries with power at the UN are serious about stopping violence, they have to send a force with the proper armaments and mandate to do so.
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Communism, national socialism and fascism have very much in common with semitic religions.
Oigal is right. If religious people are involved in charity than it’s because of empathy towards other humans (which I believe exists in every sane human being) and ignoring the intolerance, violence and hatred in their holy books.
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What on earth does communism have to do with semitic religion? It’s explicitly committed to anti-theism and atheism.
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Both are totalitarian ideologies. What if you follow the divine commands in the Old Testament?
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Lairedion,
Can’t seem to reply directly to you above, so here will have to do. You said:
Both are totalitarian ideologies. What if you follow the divine commands in the Old Testament?
If you are a dogmatic fundamentalist/literalist, maybe. But how many Christians, Muslims or Jews are dogmatic fundamentalists/literalists? Certainly some, but by no means all. A minority in places like Indonesia and the US, even though they are a vocal minority.
I think a better comparison would be to compare Abrahamic religions to Marxism, meaning that communism’s equivalent would be politicized religious fundamentalism/literalism. The rest are more like Social-Democrats…hardly totalitarian.
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@ David – I have been monitoring this site all day and I am amazed, but not surprised, by all the shuffling of posts made in response to my last entry. It must be maddening to have Oigal and friends constantly check-mated! 🙂
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Einstein belived in a Superior Being. That’s been established here and agreed upon by us.
Actually no it has been agreed by you (surprise surprise). Once again you attribute your own opinions to others in the absence of fact and substance.
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@Oigal – when your in check-mate it is polite & wise to concede the match as there are no moves left. Right now your in a state of denial & you are throwing what’s akin to a childish tantrum while your trying to scatter the pieces before others notice you have lost.
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Ok credit where credit is due Patrick, I am not “throwing a trantrum” . In all honesty, I look forward to your posts I find you and your logic (?) a major source of amusement. It lightens my day from the more serious issues even on this blog.
Between you and me this and the Obama thread are my personal favourites :-).
Now if we could just combine the two and add some banjos….P.S. You really should not pretend to speak for others, no need you don’t the supporting acts…
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Odinius, it’s about the ideology, not its followers.
We are lucky many Christians, Jews and Muslims don’t follow or understand their religious books literally.
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Many people would argue that you shouldn’t consider the books literally. Hell, even the people who are committed to literalism actually cherry-pick quite dramatically.
This is why Marxism is a better analog. Communists, like dogmatic fundamentalists/literalists, create a totalizing ideology out of Marx’s logical and discursive template, pick and choose bits that fit a rigid dogma, and ignore the bits that problematize it. Mainline religious are like Social Democrats, who take the big picture of what Marx was saying and don’t get hung up on the individual sentences. There’s nothing totalitarian about that.
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Many people would argue that you shouldn’t consider the books literally.
It is written as it is.
We don’t need to construct a totalizing ideology from it. It’s already there and crystal clear. I stand by my view. Recipes for totalitarian systems full of violence, intolerance and cruelty. We have seen it the Christian world and now we see it largely in the Islamic world.
It’s wicked, violent and intolerant stuff sane people should stay away from, if freedom and tolerance are meaningful to you.
Again. I’m talking about ideologies, not its followers.
Sorry, I cannot make something else of it.
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I think you’re right that there are totalitarian ideologies within each of the three semitic religions, but I don’t think that means–by any stretch–that the religions themselves are so. Each has a long history of heterogeneity in both ideology and practice.
The idea that holy texts has to be taken literally and linearly at all times is a very modern concept, though. So, of course, is the idea that it’s all metaphorical. In either case, we project our senses of textuality onto the text in a way quite unlike what people have done at various times in the past. If you look at ancient or medieval religion, you find a very different combination of literal and metaphorical readings of key passages than you do today. You also find extraordinarily different sociologies of religion, and different senses of temporality, space and so on.
Within Islam, liberalism, modernism and salafism are all fundamentally modern ideologies. Even though the latter makes claim to historical continuity, there’s actually very little evidence that medieval Islam ever produced movements this austere and particularist.
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Odinius,
We cannot put trust in the zillions of different interpretations, schools and currents within those 3 sects. Reality shows us we have witnessed and still are witnessing mass murders, misery, persecutions and other heinous acts caused by believers because they think it’s god’s will. And it’s still happening in the 21st century.
Sadly, this is what we have to deal with.
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But you’re also witnessing acts of kindness, charity and community spirit because of it. Religion isn’t inherently “good” or “bad;” it’s what people make of it. Just like nationalism…it can lead to great beauty or deep darkness…
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While it’s generally unwise to reply when you’re in paranoiac mode I’ll just point it’s likely because of the ‘reply’ link; the posts will shift around depending on who is replying to whom.
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Good for all those sane believers ignoring wicked dogma’s and let embedded human empathy, logic and reason prevail. Doesn’t change that this cruel stuff is still there as the word of god.
If believers want to be seen as Jews, Christians or Muslims I will continue to confront them with their own religious texts.
Odinius, we fundamentally disagree on this matter. Despite all your astute comments which I highly appreciate you won’t change my view and I have no desire to change yours.
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David,
Patrick is an extensive Blackberry user. Mobile devices largely ignore the lay-out of this site.
With no disrespect to the gaffer I think he really should view this site with a desktop browser so he can see for himself.
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The good stuff is too, though…that’s all I’m saying. All I’m trying to do with this line of argument is contend that the way religion manifests in social action has as much, or more, to do with the people using the texts than the texts themselves. You obviously have the right to disagree, or discontinue the conversation, but I feel like it’s intellectually stimulating (and marked by an unusually high degree of mutual respect, for this site), so pardon me if I continue a bit 🙂
Religion can inspire to charity, or to violence. On the other side of the coin, a lack of belief, or lack of emphasis on it, by itself isn’t much of a barrier to “wicked dogmas” and “cruel stuff.” Look at nationalism in the 20th century; communism virtually anywhere; compare the non-religious to the religious variants of fascism; and so on. None of the major genocides were primarily religious in nature (though a couple intersected with religion, i.e. Armenians and Holocaust). In recent history, religion actually plays a relatively smaller role in the meta-narrative of human cruelty to other humans than ideology or extreme nationalism.
As I said before in response to madrotter, I see the overall problem being one of people sorting other people into little boxes with labels on them, and making value judgements based upon them. If all people could, instead, agree to judge individuals as individuals, we’d have a better world. To me that very much includes religious “boxing,” but also various forms of non-religious “boxing” (ethnic/racial, national, etc.).
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Hi Tania,
A bit OOT but talking about god, spinning, etc…. I just found on youtube this song from Dewa, titled Satu (year 2004) — I-m lagging 6 years behind… gee…. I like it a lot, want to share it with you and the guys here…
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Religion can inspire to charity, or to violence. On the other side of the coin, a lack of belief, or lack of emphasis on it, by itself isn’t much of a barrier to “wicked dogmas” and “cruel stuff.” Look at nationalism in the 20th century; communism virtually anywhere; compare the non-religious to the religious variants of fascism; and so on.
Cool. Do you now understand why I put them together in the first place? 😉
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Patrick,
Checkmate nothing, the man is very simply saying God as a concept from people like yourslef does not exist and its time for the human race to grow up. In fact, it strange you should try and enlist his support for your position when he specifically identifies your position as a childish belief in myths and legends.
Now believe what you will but you like so many others do your case no good by pretending there is any connection between faith and science. Despite the wails of the faithful the fact remains as science progresses, religion retreats into the ever shrinking, dank, dark places of the yet unexplained. Call it the faith of dark places if you wish but those caves of ignorance shrink further every day.
Oh and for me, people do good despite religion not because of it. Its history through out the ages is one of terror, ignorance and oppression. Just because a number of hard fought secular battles have forced a more “human” face on the primary instrument of oppression in the world does not the litany of evil should be forgotten.
I await your next amusing piece with more tremours than a Catholic Choir boy on a Church camp.