Dating Indonesian Girls
Apr 4th, 2006, in Society, by PatungDating Indonesian women may not be for everyone.
Indonesian women, particularly on the island of Java, are exceptionally beautiful. They tend towards the very feminine side, with lovely skin, are not too tall, and have knock-out smiles. There’s plenty of plus on that side of things.
If wer’e to be honest we have to recognise that many men are interested in a woman who will take care of him, do the housework without complaint, and take care of other matters similarly without much bother. Your average Indonesian girl often fits the bill in this respect, certainly more than your average western woman, the less said about them the better.
On the other hand going out with Indonesian women in a romantic way can have many mysterious pitfalls.
Some women here are clearly only interested in money. Some men are unbothered by this. Others of the female variety, can, once we get to know them very well, come across as practically insane, hysterically emotional, scheming, over-possessive, inclined to, usually fake, attempts at self-harm in order to get their way. As I said, not for the faint-hearted.
There are a few Indonesia dating websites although the area is not nearly as developed as that in nearby Phillipines or Thailand. To begin your online journey on the Indonesian dating scene our very own “Meet” section has many a lady eager for company.
4,898 Comments on “Dating Indonesian Girls”
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Jona says:
Well, friends, I’m back after more than a month away from the site. It’s really great to have more Indonesian ladies joining the forum but some of the sexist comments from a few crude bules may have turned them away again.
@Ade:
I was really moved by your posts and felt your disappointment at Pete’s comment that all Indonesian women cheat on their men. I hope you don’t disappear because we are interested to know how your story will end. After your 18 years of fidelity in marriage, Pete should realize that not all Indonesian women fit his mindset. I still have the image of you hiding under the bed in my head. I hope your husband felt really bad about all the romantic or sexual things he was saying over Skype after you told him that you heard everything! Doesn’t sound like he felt bad enough to call it off though.@Brian:
Believe it or not, I’ve been back in Indonesia since October 4th (because of the Padang earthquake) and back in weekly contact with my lovely billiards partner and my little dancing queen. Before I update you and Suryo and Pete and all, I want to wish you a great trip to Bali next week! I’d be happy to send you my mobile/cell phone number so you can ring me up from Bali or rendevous in Jakarta. How do I do that? I seem to have an Inbox on this forum, so try sending me your Yahoo or Hotmail address. Are you really only 21? Good heavens, I assumed you were in your 30’s at least.When I arrived on October 4th, I had some some designer clothing from New York for my billiards girl from Aeropostale 1987 or “A87” for short. I couldn’t wait to see her, so I took a taxi straight to her house in Kemang and she was sleeping on the sitting room sofa. Her mom let me in the front door and actually allowed me to sit on the sofa and slowly wake up sleeping beauty by stroking her back. She thought she was dreaming and she loved the cute pyjamas, t-shirts and bikini underwear. Wouldn’t you know it, her father whom I hadn’t met, walks into the room just as she is holding up a pair of designer panties! No wonder he is hesitant to let me take her to Singapore for a day!
Anyway, later in the week, I couldn’t resist checking in on my other friend in Jakarta, my Blok M dancer. To my surprise, she resigned from her job to finish her studies full time. My arch-rival Steve from Australia lost interest in her when she quit dancing and has now returned to Australia until January. So I arrived just in time to pick up the slack and we have been meeting each other at Starbucks and different restaurants. Today, for the first time, she asked if I would like to meet her at a dance club. Wow, that’s the first time she has agreed to go out on a date with me! Too bad, I had to turn her down because I am too poor this weekend (not the reason that I gave her though).
I’ll stop here and just say it’s great to be back in the forum and its great to be back in Indonesia. Hope you are all doing fine, except for poor Ade who we all know is going through a tough time with a cheating hubby.
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andy says:
General question to the ladies. I know it is kind of difficult maybe to answer but let’s cut to the chase here. How do you generally treat bule men compared to your own? And how do you see them being different? I look forward to your answers.
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brian astaga says:
@ BS,
yes I am maybe green on the matter, when you saidMy wife (Indonesian) therefore hates it when I take her to the beach and I have to make it up which lots of ice cream.
see… thats also what I am trying to say here dude.
I see it as in the west fake tan, in indonesia white make up. but really I dont care that much, it was just mild conversation.yes statistics are against me, but I think she maybe genuine if she wants me to meet her family 10 hr drive away and not just party in club whenever I see her in bali. but who knows!!! if she is playing me well i have learnt a lesson and my indonesian girl will be a story only. just because you have given into a women with money before doesnt mean all others have done the same
@JONA
great reading your postWouldn’t you know it, her father whom I hadn’t met, walks into the room just as she is holding up a pair of designer panties! No wonder he is hesitant to let me take her to Singapore for a day!
in the bad books now mate. that would be a laugh and good to catch up for a half a dozen bintang in indo as we both seem to love the women in that country
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jen says:
@andy
How do you generally treat bule men compared to your own? And how do you see them being different?
I tend to be more careful with the westerner guys, as in my opinion we have different cultures which make things might be more complicated than it is. But after a while and getting to know each other I treat them like others.
I think the western guys in general feel more convertable in dealing with a woman, or just me (I shouldn’t speak for all women shall I?). The good thing is, I can be myself without worrying what he might think because most of the time he will speak his mind instead of just keeping it to himself. That way I know when something is wrong and I can be relax and just be myself.
Other small things help too… they look at me in the eyes while talking, that’s important for me personally. Also the fact that I can wear whatever I like without being judged as a cheap girl… Many too like travelling and reading… they always have something interesting to talk about. And I know many who can cook… I would say that’s the most romantic thing a guy could do to me!! Oh, I shouldn’t forget that they do hug, not just for the lust.
I will stop here because all I wrote above was nothing but generalization. But yeah… -
shawty says:
@ Andy
How do you generally treat bule men compared to your own? And how do you see them being different?
Finally I’m back to my solid ground after 2 years in Europe..
and yeah most bule men in Indonesia (not all) have certain level of intelligence and very high level of tolerance (open minded) that rarely to find in Indonesia men.
None gonna judge if I drink beer like fish everyday after work..
and about sleazyness for me its easier dealing with bule cos it seems it already written in their face that they are most (not all) are sleazy not like Indo men that fake it and just damn boring..pretend looks good but just worse..
However some Indo men also great and mostly treat women like princess, always ready to pick up and take us anywhere and always pay the date
for girl like me I usually turn on only by intelligence talk and never talk about money matter cos I know some bules that just make enough money here usually the teacher types..In my conclusion after a month back to Jakarta “The dumber is the nicer’
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bs says:
@shawty
always ready to pick up and take us anywhere and always pay the date
Yes, independence comes with a price, you can’t have your cake and eat it.
Exactly what part of Europe are you talking about? There are quite some differences between the countries of Europe. I’m Dutch and regularly visit the U.K., the Dutch bluntness is almost the opposite of British decency, and that’s just across the channel.
Differences below the wine-border and above it (where the majority drinks beer;-)) are even bigger. -
ariana says:
I found this site out the blue and find it very entertaining. I had few relationships with foreign guys before from different country leaving in their country and then the last 2 relations they are working in Jakarta and Bali.
My last and shattered relation was with a mature age scandinavian guy working in Jakarta. I have never chasing a guy for money as I can make my own quite good- I work abroad and coming home to Jakarta as often as I want. I came from a prominent family- not necessarily rich and I think Im cute and attractive enough. I had also few Indonesian bf but since my first relation with foreign guy i seem always fall to them. They are challenging, open minded and speaks english!
In my last relation I was thinking that he was serious cos he is decent, mature age, long divorced and seems like wanted to settle down. He treats me like a princess and shower me with sweet words coming from his sweet mouth. I just didn’t realise that when Im away he’s like a lilttle boy in a candy shop- (read in a cheap bars and clubs) The one who usually invisible now acting like he every indo women dreams.
And what Im trying to say is you guys who have bad experiences with indo girls just becos you found them in indecent places. And in another case if you really want her, like her and love her why are you fussy about your money, its not like you have lots and lots of it. If you do i dont think you couldn’t be bothered.
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Farah says:
@ brian
can I ask an indonesian woman on here why some indonesian women always wear the white make up on the face….? :-s
I prefer them without it, any other bule on here agree with me?
I think its like in western… people consider you are wealthy when you had tan skin even on winter.. as a sign that you are able to traveling abroad to where sun shine and brown your skin…
Asian think only rich girls had fair skin… rich means you don’t have to work under the sun shine, its short of showing your social status… fair skin means she taking care of her self too…and not go out often (home girl?).. an i prefer had my yellowish fair skin because it suit even the most ugliest color like shocking pink or errrhhh what i call puke green color (euuhhhhh…). I simply like light color. And yeah i like white guys because they “seemed” more clean (ever look at dark side on the back of guys neck.. i think its disgusting) but ofcourse its very physical… its people preference !!But don’t get me wrong, i like being brown, and burn my skin (using correct spf and some oils), lying down on sand at beach ! done that in Phuket, sun bath start before mid day until 3.30 pm ! i love it !! too bad can’t keep it there forever, gone in 6 months!!
I think once we talk about this before, you might need to scroll back the comments, i think its in mid conversation here…
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@ andy
General question to the ladies. I know it is kind of difficult maybe to answer but let’s cut to the chase here. How do you generally treat bule men compared to your own? And how do you see them being different? I look forward to your answers.
My answer would be:
With my ex bule bf i feel more open and straight talking. I would tell him my opinion wide open, like the whole truth. If i dont like it ill tell so, if i like it ill do the same. With my western boss and co worker i did the same. It is easier to tell the whole truth. My boss listen to my opinion, whether he is going to agree or not. The western at my office treat me as co worker-a partner (in crime hahahaha)
With my ex local bf, if i want to say something i need to do things in order, when i want to tell my opinion i have to be smart to “sugar coated” things. As it is inappropriate or impolite to say thing straight in some certain times i cant even have my own opinion !! Same rules for my local boss. He demand a respect, demand people to “bow”. And i could ensure, that most of local employee don’t even like my local boss !!
Maybe i just met wrong local bf. But it does bring deep heart break that i will never forget !
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With my ex local bf, if i want to say something i need to do things in order, when i want to tell my opinion i have to be smart to “sugar coated” things. As it is inappropriate or impolite to say thing straight in some certain times i cant even have my own opinion
Can’t have your own opinion? Why not? If you can tell your expat bf (let’s not use the racist ‘b’ word anymore) how you feel why not the Indo guy? He may not like it but surely it is better than bottling up emotions for extended periods. All that can do is mae matters worse in the long run. Farah, if you did tell him like it was what would have happened to you?
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can I ask an indonesian woman on here why some indonesian women always wear the white make up on the face….? :-s
I prefer them without it, any other bule on here agree with me?
Absolutely yes! If a guy wan’t a white woman stay home, save the airfare and avoid the culture issues. Brown skin is attractive (see i’m not racist) and one of many reasons men marry asian ladies. I lost count of the times I used to turn my head as a pembantu walked past while ignoring their middle class employer who yes had spent countless hours in the salon trying to look beautiful. Farah, what you said is intesting if it is a sign of wealth then all the more reason to avoid them. They are obviously very shallow people. I know many expats who love suntanning on the beach in summer but not too many who want one in winter. There is a major difference. Also we are covered from head to toe in winter cos of the cold so whats the point trying to look brown then?
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timdog says:
Farah’s got it spot on on the skin colour thing; I think it might have been me who was involved in the previous discussion. Anyway I’m pretty sure I’ve done my random cultural-historical trivia lecture on the skin colour thing somewhere on here, but hell, I like it so I’ll do it again…
The idea of dark = ugly – as found in most of the world – has a lot longer pedigree than the idea of brown skin being attractive (which, when given a racial rather than a sunbathing connotation, probably taps in to some potentially objectionable and certainly somewhat silly orientalist fantasies – the dusky maiden, the sexual orient, the almond eyes, the harem, in general the sweaty masturbation fantasy that that wacky guy Rayner banged on about on this forum a while back – but I would be digressing mightily if I went that way. I’ll stop).Sunbathing as a leisure activity was only invented in the 1920s, largely by the moneyed and bohemian – and mostly American – expat community in France, who wintered pretentiously in Paris, and then drank and slept with each other’s wives on the coast in summer (see F Scott Fitzgerald etc…).
Until that point, in Europe and the west, just as in Asia, darker skin was associated with working outside – not with luxuriating on a beach. If you worked outside you were poor; if you were poor you were potentially dangerous.
I was just recently rereading Gulliver’s Travels as I rattled across the length of China on the middle berth of a hard sleeper train. Gulliver is always banging on about the “fairness” – or otherwise – of people, and proudly proclaims that he himself is still very “fair” despite his life at sea. In 18th Century Britain, just as in 21st Century Asia, to be fair was a good thing. Indeed so good a thing that the word “fair”, which originally applied only to skin colour eventually came to mean “pretty” in general…
Sneering at Asians for their silly obsession with skin colour is, frankly, silly in itself – we’re probably only half a century on from abandoning the same attitudes ourselves. It was the idea of sunbathing as a luxury activity that caused the change in the west. Travel certainly is more popular in Asia now, but given the climate in much of Asia it’s unlikely that sunbathing will ever become a major leisure activity there for locals (I personally like to sit in the sun of a Cornish summer, but can’t for the life of me understand the appeal of frying yourself on Kuta Beach – and neither can most Indonesians).
It’s also important to point out the difference between colour-consciousness and racism. The horror of sun-tanned skin that prevails in Asia and that prevailed in Europe until the last century clearly isn’t “racist” in its principal nature. It’s about class; it’s about hating and being scared of poor people. Now that might well be as obnoxious as hating foreigners, but it’s not the same thing. And if you’re a self-righteous bule, think for a second about your own attitudes on class – boguns? Chavs? Trailer trash? It’s just that because of lifestyle we’ve taken skin-colour out of that equation, but a century ago those people, that “other” would almost certainly have had darker skin than us…
HOWEVER – there is a secondary racial aspect to the colour-consciousness thing – both as it existed in Europe, and in Asia, but it’s buried far deeper than the class thing… The term “blue blood” comes from post-reconquista Spain. Despite what Spaniards believe the Arab period in Iberia was clearly not about a handful of foreigners ruling the country for several centuries; Spain was Muslim country; many Spaniards have Arab blood (look at them for crying out loud). After the Catholic reconquest this “taint of the Moor” was to be abhorred, being associated with the previous “foreign” rule. “True”, high-born people were without Arab blood, and were so white that you could see the blue of their veins through their skin (yuck!) hence blue blood…
In Asia, especially in India and Southeast Asia it’s notable that the earlier migrations were darker skinned – first the aboriginal people (who still exist in the forests of India and Malaysia), then the Melanesians into Indonesia and the Tamils in India, and then finally the fairer Aryans into India and Austronesians (or “Malay types”) into Southeast Asia. Always these newcomers not only largely displaced the darker predecessors; they usually assumed a higher social position. (It’s sometimes claimed, somewhat fancifully in my opinion, that European colonialists were able to assume control so easily in Asia, especially in India, with very limited manpower because of a natural deference to lighter skin amongst the “natives”)… So anyway, a very deep-buried association with dark-skinned people being the “primitive”, “savage” people with their strange customs who were here before “we” arrived also plays into the colour consciousness thing, but it’s certainly much less key than the regular dark = poor equation…
There ya go; that’s why people are obsessed with skin colour in Asia (and don’t forget, so were westerners until very recently)… -
@ Ariana
a lilttle boy in a candy shop
I feel the pain..if I were u and still lives financial comfortable abroad, I will look the one abroad..
I’m not saying all expat in Indo are bad..but they do worse haha
but then I go to mirror and I might not better than them when I was in Europe..@BS
I did travel most Europe, yeah independence comes with a price thats why Im here now 😀 -
@ andy
Can’t have your own opinion? Why not? If you can tell your expat bf (let’s not use the racist ‘b’ word anymore) how you feel why not the Indo guy? He may not like it but surely it is better than bottling up emotions for extended periods. All that can do is mae matters worse in the long run. Farah, if you did tell him like it was what would have happened to you?
Trust me i love being straight talking rather than sugar coated things. I did try to be straight talking to my local bf or friend or boss, it will lead to a major argument that seemed that they can’t accept an idea from woman (some might think they live in pre historic age).
He not like it, and he will stay in silence and keep remember what i say and made it as joke in front of his friend. Like i said, maybe its just my bad luck meet jerk local guys.
But it does hurt when it comes from person that you love the most, those words like “what do you know??? you are just a woman” how do i suppose to react to such insulting sentence??That’s what happened inmost of time. I see my sisters struggling the same thing too. They are able to say “yes” and follow, and i think its absurd sometimes. Even at the end if the husband/bf is proven to be wrong, there are NO APOLOGIES. But of course they could cope with that, because they are married or planning, so they doesn’t want to made this as big issue. Like i said, we have to be smart to sugar coated things.
I met a good ex expat bf. He teach me how a men should treat a woman with respect. And so far i see my expat friends at work do the same. Aside their personal business out of office hour, i feel they accept my opinion better.
Well sure, maybe lots of people here might have different opinion about this…
About the skin color i could say the same, in indonesia people could have fair skin, but not all would want it too, and feel satisfy enough with what ever color they had and sure its human basic nature to be different.
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Fawzia says:
My uncle is married to a Javanese lady, she’s supposed to be very fair like a langsat fruit, but she looks Chinese to me, I find little difference between her color & a Chinese woman’s.
Iranians & Arabs are fairer than the avarage person from Pakistan & I was told by a British Pakistani that they consider Iranian women very pretty for they’re all “very fair”.
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@ andy
(let’s not use the racist ‘b’ word anymore)
Is it ‘Bule’ you mean??
If it is yes I dont think bule is a racist word. Its different if you call black people with Niger
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Oigal says:
If it is yes I dont think bule is a racist word. Its different if you call black people with Niger
Laugh, sorry chocolate.. it’s defining a group of people by colour or ethnic origin. Of course its racist its very nature.
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I remember an old joke Mayan joke: why is the Huang He river yellow?
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Easy answer: because people bathe in that river….
…Ok, it’s just nasty racist joke. I’ll think of a joke for the chocolate on my way to the church, I have to attend my friend’s daughter’s primer communion.
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And let’s see if I can figure out a joke for the catholics while I’m in the church.
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If it is yes I dont think bule is a racist word. Its different if you call black people with Niger
What I don’t understand is how Indonesians are the ones to choose whether or not they think it is racist. It is up to those being called that term to decide. Black Americans stood up yeas ago and said they don’t like being called ‘niggers’. Consequently the wider community chose to make it a racist term which shouldn’t be used anymore. I remember an Indonesian friend being most distressed on a visit to Malaysia and said they were called ‘Indons’. I commented that it is simply an abbreviation of their nationality. He said but it’s the way they say it. Well you can’t have it both ways.
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Yawn.
To you it’s always the indonesians who are culpable.
So, what the heck with the rest of your arguments.
But at least you made some sense here (congratulation)…, eh wait, it wasn’t you, it’s your indonesian “f( r )iend” (decongratulation):
I commented that it is simply an abbreviation of their nationality. He said but it’s the way they say it.
Now apply that to the word “bule”, or “gringo”, or “chinito”, or whatever. See some similarities?
However, it would never use such words in daily conversation. I’m a reserved person. Apart from that to me it sounds kampungan “ih ada bule, ada bule”. And to me it’s better safe than sorry (some people might get offended, probably because he’s deaftone); it’s like calling a niger niger.
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Andy:
What I don’t understand is how Indonesians are the ones to choose whether or not they think it is racist. It is up to those being called that term to decide.
There ya go – here’s something we agree on completely. I don’t take issue with anything at all in your post above. It fundamentally IS a racist word, being as it is, basically about skin colour, and it does have the potential to be used in an utterly racist way…
Now I do know that when the vast majority of Indonesians use the word they are clearly NOT being racist in the way that, say, a snarling British bigot would be if he snarled “You f$%^%in’ Paki bastard…”, or if some leering redneck began a joke “there’s these two n*ggers…”
BUT – and this is the fundamental point – sixty years ago most white Americans would have used the “N” word (or at best the “negro” word) to describe black people, not with a snarl of active, intentional racism, but just as a word they thought was appropriate to describe black people (have a look at various books published in 19th and 20th Century America if you don’t believe me – try Huckleberry Finn, or much later, Ernest Hemingway, and you’ll see the “N” word used in this way).
This is EXACTLY how “bule” is used in Indonesia. If you want seriously to argue that it’s not racist then you have also – on the grounds of what I have described above – to accept that the “N” word, used by white people, is also not racist…Now, I have to do a bit of customary self-hating liberal bed-wetting – I personally don’t get particularly het-up at being called a bule; hell, I use the word myself; I think it’s kind of funny (despite knowing that it is, fundamentally, racist)…
Why, I ask my tormented liberal soul? And then I do what all liberal bet-wetters do – I go for the post-colonial guilt (this is, please note, just a theory, I’m not convinced by it myself):
Those bules who don’t have a problem with being called bule, who simply smile and rise above it, do so, because somewhere in their subconsciousness they think of themselves, westerners, as both morally and intellectually superior to the “natives”. If we hear a fellow white man using, say, the “N” word, we’ll rise to outrage in an instant, but when the little brown people say “bule” we just smile – “look at them with their quaint little racism! Aren’t we so much cleverer than them! Gosh, I’ll get all post-modern and ironic and use the word myself!”So if you accept this argument (which I don’t, not entirely) then you’ll see that the latent racism wrapped around the word “bule” exceeds even that attached to the “N” word. Its use by Indonesians, and its smirking acceptance and even ironic appropriation by some – ahem – bules, is one massive artifact of monstrous racism and mutual contempt, its blades cutting hatefully in both directions…
Sh*t, that’s deep, man…
The counter argument to the “superiority” argument for the acceptance of “bule” by bules is that bules, no matter what petty annoyances they might meet in countries like Indonesia, have always been at the top of the racism pile – no one made us slaves, no one colonised us (oh what? An Indonesian taxi driver once overcharged us? That’s it??? Excuse me while I weep for the horror of it all…), and therefore being addressed with a racist word simply doesn’t have the same stinging impact that calling a black American a n*gger would… I’m also not convinced by this either, just putting it out there…
There ya go, go and chew on that, but understand that – whether or not you think it’s a problem, “bule” is a racist word – and just as Andy says, it’s for the bules themselves, not the Indonesians, to decide whether or not that’s the case…
Now Andy, having found common ground on that, and me having not been nasty to you at all, can you read my above post on colour-consciousness in ASIA (not just Indonesia, pal; like so many things, it’s much worse in India) and give me your thoughts, please…
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Timdog, I reckon you could be taken to task on several of your positions above
bules is that bules, no matter what petty annoyances they might meet in countries like Indonesia, have always been at the top of the racism pile
Is a classic of what is wrong with demonising a whole bunch of people by skin colour, without any effort at all I can think of a bunch of “white communities, nations, countries that have felt the effects of slavery, genocide and overt racism as I am sure you can. Nor have all black nations/peoples suffered the crimes you mention. Interestingly, the major culpits these days are…????
Now I do know that when the vast majority of Indonesians use the word they are clearly NOT being racist in the way that, say, a snarling British bigot would be if he snarled “You f$%^%in’ Paki bastard…”, or if some leering redneck began a joke “there’s these two n*ggers
A major generalisation that leads to a 100% wrong conclusion..Certainly, the Kapung kids and uneducated mean no harm or carry no intent (along the lines of hey mum look at funny dwarfs). I challenge anyone to protest innocent intent, when a educated Indonesian or Government official uses the term. Its a lie to pretend they don’t know its a potentially offensive term and its a deliberate insult/put down and used as such.
Having said that, I love it when I visit a government office and some plonker uses the term in reference to me as it lets me use a variation of the line “Ok which one of you uniformed chocolates do I take this form to now” . Watch the red faces, the huffing n puffing and the threats that follow.
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Oigal – quoting you quoting me – a-ha:
bules is that bules, no matter what petty annoyances they might meet in countries like Indonesia, have always been at the top of the racism pile
Oh I know, I know; I was actually only repeating a counter-argument that someone made to me after I had laid out the “sub-concious superiority” argument for why so many westerners accept and even appropriate the word bule despite recognising its ultimately racist nature…
I know full well that the idea that “white people were always at the top of the pile” is simply not true… Hell, for well over a century Arab slavers used to raid along the coast of my native Cornwall, and drag white slaves back to North Africa (just as a random – very random – example). As a less random example, look at Ireland; look at many places in Eastern Europe etc. etc…Anyway, you’ll note that when I laid out both explanations above I was careful to point out that I was fully convinced by neither, though given my interest in and confidence with the concepts of othering and orientalism I’m inclined to go for the “superiority explanation”, which, if correct, only makes the whole concept of the word bule and its tacit acceptance by some, er, bules, even worse…
However, though I entirely believe that “bule” IS racist, and though it may sometimes be used in an overtly racist manner, I still maintain that in terms of the development of “political correctness” Indonesia is probably at the stage America was 60 years ago, and at that time the vast majority of times when the “N” word was used the latent racism and contempt carried in the word was not active or considered.
If you think about it most of those instances when some petty official uses “bule” in your presence it’s entirely equivalent to being in some 1940s government office and some functionary saying “Mr Smith? There’s two negros outside waiting to see you…”
Racist? Absolutely. But the same as if the modern counterpart of that same functionary said “Boss? There’s a pair of n*ggers who wanna see you about something…”? No, and generally use of “bule” equals the former, not the latter.
Again, just to make clear, that’s not to defend it though…There IS, however, a complicating factor. Instead of being my usual wordy self I’ll just quote two imaginary lines and leave y’all to think about them:
“Mbak, enak ya kawin sama bule…”
“Oh Mary-Jane, you’re so lucky t’be married with that n*gger-boy…”
😉 -
Have no idea that bule word is irritating…
Well obviously its different with gringo, chinito, indons or anything- those are derogatory.
There is a similar expression for whites in all asia. Like in China, chinese call bule with guilo- white ghost. Its just a term- slang. Am sure you guys know when we indonesian say that word, its refer to a white people having a good job and salary in here, educated, open minded and yet… good looking. Not referring to drug dealer or strong smell or women beater or whatever that connote negative.
Anyways, anybody who takes any offense at that must be very insecure of themselves.
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ariana, i’ll repeat…..If you can’t be bothered asking those who are called ‘bule’ if it is rude or racist, why assume it is ok? You may well admire us and not mean any harm when saying it but how do you know what others are thinking? Some like us but many don’t and as Oigal said, for a government worker to use such a term in an office is either racist or totally unprofessional. Do you not think we’d get fired for using any such terms to describe other races or nationalities? Now that it is clear it is a racist term will you continue to use it? I’m not insecure about it , find it rather amusing at times depending on my mood. But why would any Indonesian be telling us about insecurity, your people are highly insecure about politics, religion and racial issues generally. I still recall Indonesians buring Aussie flags outside our embassy when the Sutiyoso business hit the fan.
timdog, i’ll look at the post you mentioned, which one specifically? I do realise there is racism in other countries but again this forum is generally about Indonesia. We could go on for days talking about all the places we’ve been to and the experiences but i’d rather stick on topic which is Indonesia. But thanks for not slagging off at me this time.
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Too true..my bad ..my apologies
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ariana – for god’s sake! The word guilo in China is categorically and totally racist, much more so (in the conscious intent) than bule usually is… This is the massive problem that Indonesians seem to have understanding the racism of the word bule (“If it’s not applied to me, and if most bules are rich [also a backwards, ignorant idea] how can the word be racist?”)
My 88-year-old Grandmother, who is certainly not actively racist in any way shape or form, once had a conversation with me about what you’re supposed to call black people these days – she was quite confused; she thought “black” was bad. Wasn’t it supposed to be “coloured”. And how about “n*gger?”
Nononononono Grandma!
“But that’s just what we called them when we were little; we didn’t mean it to be nasty, we had this song “ten little n*gger boys…”So by your argument, just because my grandma didn’t mean anything nasty by it, then the “N” word obviously isn’t racist…
The word “bule” IS actually very close to the word “gringo”, and actually has many of the same complications that make gringo, like bule, slightly different in its dynamic to “n*gger” – as I attempted to infer above…
And as for being insecure, read my post above and you’ll find that there’s a convincing argument for the reason why many “bules” accept the word being that those bules think they’re a million times better than the INDONS…
Andy, it was the post about colour-consciousness – a long one. The point actually wasn’t that “it’s not just Indonesia” (which it’s not, but that’s not the point), and it wasn’t even an attack on you; the point was a detailed explanation of the back-story for the WORLDWIDE fetsih for white skin, and an explanation of the distinct difference between colour-consciousness and racism… Just take a look, see what you think; it’s interesting stuff – the fact is, when an Indonesian sneers with disgust at some “black” pembantu or tukang becak they are NOT being racist; they are being colour-conscious. But when they say “bule”, they ARE being racist…
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ET says:
timdog said
Those bules who don’t have a problem with being called bule, who simply smile and rise above it, do so, because somewhere in their subconsciousness they think of themselves, westerners, as both morally and intellectually superior to the “natives”.
There is some truth in this. Strong personalities don’t bother with these little trivia, even convert (oops, did I use the word ‘convert’ again?) it psychologically into some kind of an honorary title. It’s only the minus habentes who care about what others may think and who will work themselves into a frenzy to prove that they don’t deserve to be called what they really are.
So, Niggers, Wogs, Chinks, Bules etc., rise and shine, give everybody the finger or do what I do in my gravatar.
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Brian, dude, you’re really green on the matter at hand here.
In the West we consider it chique to have a tan. In asia it’s chique to be white. Most Indonesian men prefer a white skinned girl, there are thought to be cleaner. My wife (Indonesian) therefore hates it when I take her to the beach and I have to make it up which lots of ice cream.
I do suggest you hand over control of your savings account to your mom though. You seem to be a good target for a bule-chasing Indonesian girl (I’m not saying your girl is one, but statistics are not on your side my friend).