1,311 Comments on “Atheist Threat”

1. Patrick says:

   June 3, 2013 at 10:10 am

   Oigal says “Pssssst Patrick read the newspapers and see what is the core of the World’s violence…”

   Oigal, you have this annoying tendency to make irresponsible statements without any real basis except your unfounded belief what you say is always true. Would it shock you to know, according to insurance underwriters in the USA, that statistically Catholic priests are not more likely to commit sexual abuse against minors than any other religious or non-religious groups or members of the general population? But your right in one regard, if I turn on the tv news or read the newspapers, i would likely believe that Catholic priests are doing the majority of these heinous crimes though that is just not true. What is true is that they do some of these crimes at a statistical rate no different than Protestant ministers or Jewish rabbis or the general population at large. Most victims are attacked by people they know and trust. A great many of these crimes go unreported due to shame and guilt felt by the victims who are often conned by their tormentors into believing they are somehow responsible for the attack occurring.

   However, I do agree that the Catholic Church has badly mismanaged the crisis.

   Wars over many centuries have been fought for many reasons other than God. Examples include the Greeks attacking Troy to return Helen of Troy to her Spartan husband, the American civil war fought over states right to leave the Union and slavery. The Falkland War where Argentina tried to claim sovereignty over a British possession in the middle of nowhere. In today’s world we do see many acts of violence being acted upon in the name of God but that has precious little to do with the saber rattling going on in Asia where the Chinese have started to use their new found wealth to gain a military advantage over their neighbors and to lay claim to disputed islands. The motivation is pure greed as these islands are usually little more than piles of rock sticking out of the sea. However, as you know maritime law gives off shore mineral and oil rights to the country possessing them. The godless North Koreans have acted belligerently toward their Pacific neighbors to extort money and food to feed their starving population. Since they are a nuclear power anything they do has to be monitored closely and taken seriously. The American involvement in Iraq or Afghanistan was not to bring any new religion to those countries. If we look at Russia’s continued military support of Syria it would be my guess its not given in regard to any religious ideology is it? As you can see there are many reasons for men and countries to war besides religion.

2. Oigal says:

   June 11, 2013 at 4:38 pm

   Well done Patrick, you carry on the cover-up and minimizing of the crimes in the great and honourable tradition of the Church. Whilst I doubt the accuracy of your claims (any link?), it is also a moot point considering the Church has done everything it can to silence victims, impede investigations and transfer the evil to other parts to continue again.

   The true depth of this rot is only beginning to be known. You remind me of that particularly repugnant Bishop when interview about the Australian Catholic Church decades long protection of pedophiles smirked and said “better late than never”. As for the comparison to Jewish Rabbis, really? did I miss the part where Jewish organisations around the world are being investigated for the abuse of children? I guess it just evil people picking on the Catholic Church is it? Nothing to see here…move along.

   Now Patrick…Helen of Troy? My we are reaching aren’t we. As pointed out the North Koreans do indeed have a God but he is human and blessed with all the attributes of yours as far as slavish devotion goes. However, I am impressed with this one

   Since they are a nuclear power anything they do has to be monitored closely and taken seriously

   Not sure that North Korea is yet but your point is sound and yes the world should keep a very close eye on the USA as well. There is the very real chance of a tantrum as she realises that she is not the only bully on the block anymore.

   The American involvement in Iraq or Afghanistan was not to bring any new religion to those countries

   Well ignoring the usual US centric sentence structure (There is a bit more than US involvement). It is plainly disingenuous if not just silly to pretend the slaughters in Iraq and Afghanistan are not religious based. Of course they are, granted the religion in this case is an insane interpretation of Islam but it is an religion Patrick really.

   To be fair, no one in the world really knows why the “Coalition” was/is doing in Iraq, except for falling for faulty US intelligence (How is that hunt for WMD going anyway?). Of course, wasn’t it Bush the Idiot who stated he was on a mission from God by invading Iraq.

   No one said that the only reason for war was religion, I did say read the papers Patrick. Today when you catch a plane, you will lose your nail file thanks to a religious nut, a soldier or civilians will lose their lives in Afghanistan or Iraq because of religion. A Muslim will die in Thailand and a Christian someplace else.

   Oh lastly, you point about Syria is nonsense, Syria is by any definition a conflict defined by traditional religious ethnic groups. The fact that Russia decided to pick a different side to the US is just a continuation of both nations spilling other peoples blood as two fading empires struggle for relevance.

3. Patrick says:

   June 12, 2013 at 11:32 am

   Oigal – Please see Newsweek’s article of April 9, 2010 and entitled “Priests Unfairly Targeted as Abusers”. Have a nice read old chap and yes, I am certain Pope Francis will not only accept your apology but he will likely forgive you as well.

   North Korea has had a nuclear weapon program for years and in 2003 admitted that it possessed such weapons to the USA, China and Russia. In 2006 they conducted an underground test of a nuclear device. Where in God’s name (yes a pun) have you been hiding? Geeeeesh!!

   Oigal, my point was and is that wars are fought for many different reasons and I can assure the big players on the world stage including the USA, Russia and China don’t engage their armies and navies for anything but worldly pursuits. If I recall correctly the Arab Spring was less about religious dogma and more about political power and personal freedom. However, it was the hard liners of Islamic extremism who were best positioned and organized to seize control of the direction of these new governments. That is exactly the same reason that a civil war is being fought in Syria.

   Oh by the way you forgot to mention that Budhist were doing their fair share of killing in Mynamar. Is that about religious idealology or wrestling control of the local economies? As in Northern Ireland, religion differences are often the excuse to empower the majority group over the minority group. In America and South Africa race was used to do the same thing.

4. Oigal says:

   June 14, 2013 at 3:01 pm

   Gee I guess I must feel sorry for these poor unfairly targeted abusers. I don’t know what you call any more likely to offend than other groups but I would suggest the below makes a mockery of that claim. You can find it on the ABC website along with how they threw one poor child down the stairs in a boys home to stop him reporting them.

   “29 Melbourne priests have been accused of abuse and named. The 29 are just the tip of the iceberg because there are 30 more priest accused of similar offenses, but their names were withheld since some were already dead when accusations were made against them, giving the priests no chance to respond. Denis Hart admitted last week to the child abuse inquiry initiated by the state of Victoria.

   ABC published the list but withheld the name of four priests in the group of 30 for legal reasons. The 26 others are: Anthony Bongiorno, John Byrne, Peter Chalk, David Daniel, Bernard Day, Anthony Eames, Nazareno Fasciale, Desmond Gannon, Michael Glennon, Jack Gubbels, Barry Gwillim, Penn Jones, Bernie Mackin, Terry Merivale, Syd Morey, John O’Callaghan, Kevin O’Donnell, Tom O’Keefe, Paul Pavlou, Dominic Phillips, Ronald Pickering, Terence Pidoto, Victor Rubeo, Peter Searson and Ray Whitehouse.

   The systemic cover up of the abuses include members of the clergy being placed above the law and one former officials, Ballarat Bishop Ronald Mulkearns and former Melbourne Archbishop Frank Little destroying documents to hide abuse cases.”

   So you will excuse me if I don’t apologise to the Pope and look forward (in vain, I suggest) to seeing him in jail as Director of any other organisation would be in similar circumstances.

   On your other points, South Korea and the US must be most disappointed to find out all their posturing was just that as North Korea already has a workable nuclear arms capability (Very WMD of you)

   Gee, must be a surprise to all those soldiers and civilians getting killed in Iraq and Afghanistan that religion has nothing to do with it. What is with all those Allah Akbars then?

   Buddhist killing Muslims..sound religious to me..

   hard liners of Islamic extremism who were best positioned and organized to seize control of the direction of these new governments

   Pretty sure Islam qualifies as a religion?

   Northern Ireland ..your kidding right?

   I think you pretty much made my point, look for any hot spot of significant mayhem and murder you will find the someones God is better than your God at the core.

5. Patrick says:

   June 17, 2013 at 2:04 am

   @ Oigal – On the surface your recent remarks seem very deep but as we dive in we begin to realize how utterly shallow your thought. Is on the matter. I fully realize I am paraphrasing some long ago English academic but it certainly applies to most of your statements.

   If we look at society as a whole it is a true statement to say that priests do not commit pedophile crimes at a rate higher than the general population nor a higher rate than Protestant ministers or Jewish rabbis. Your response is to continuously bash priests as if they are responsible for most if not all sexual attacks against children. This is just not true and to state or imply otherwise is just irresponsible. What is true is that homosexuals commit a prolific number of sexual attacks against young boys that is at rate considerably higher than the general population. Homosexuals have entered the priesthood and the pedeophiles amongst them are responsible for the majority of the attacks.

   I have agreed with you all along that the hierarchy of the Church has acted poorly in handling the majority of these crimes and many bishops should resign due to their poor leadership and rather bad judgement.

   Yes, North Korea has a workable nuclear aresenal and recent testing in 2006 and 2010 confirm this. They also have a rocket delivery program and recent testing of these launchers bear out my statements.

   The USA entered Afghanistan in response to 9/11 and I don’t remember George Bush calling it a Christian Crusade? Iraq was invaded for frequent violations of UN rules concerning biochemical warfare inspection infractions and suspected chemical weapons manufacturing. Just because they didn’t find them doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. Many suspected Sadam shipped them to Syria prior to the invasion by the USA. Both France and the USA have stated recently that Syria is using chemical weapons in the civil war.

   Oigal, perhaps now you will stop blaming God as the root of Man’s evil as man has no one to blame but himself.

6. Oigal says:

   June 18, 2013 at 5:24 pm

   Oh my Patrick not that old chestnut, Homosexuality = pedophiles. Do try and join the current century. Could you come up with a more silly defence “Its not priests who are abusing children but homosexuals who entered the church” As priests and brothers I assume.

   If we look at society as a whole it is a true statement to say that priests do not commit pedophile crimes at a rate higher than the population nor a higher rate than Protestant ministers or Jewish rabbis.

   Well Patrick the facts would seem to dispute that. Let’s use Melbourne for example (Feel free to use Boston or Ireland if you wish) To recap:

   “29 Melbourne priests have been accused of abuse and named. The 29 are just the tip of the iceberg because there are 30 more priest accused of similar offenses”

   Can you point to a similar organisation in Melbourne, I am sure the Ford Motor company in Geelong has more employees than the church but I don’t recall an investigation indicating similar numbers of creeps. Perhaps AFL or NRL, nope?

   I tell you what please link to any occupation that has a similar % of proven creepoids and perhaps you might have a case.

   I know personally I would be far less concerned leaving my child in the care of a homosexual teacher than I would leaving him unattended in a Church.

   Yes you are right the Church has handled this badly and many of those should not only resign but face a lengthy time in jail, including the CEO.

   Yes, North Korea has a workable nuclear aresenal and recent testing in 2006 and 2010 confirm this. They also have a rocket delivery program and recent testing of these launchers bear out my statements.

   Ah no, not according to most intelligence reports and let’s face it, it has been fun watching NK missiles fail dismally when they have tried.

   The USA entered Afghanistan in response to 9/11

   Very good Patrick and now concentrate, why did OBL do what he did? Because he was a religious extremist Why did those idiots fly planes into buildings because they had been brainwashed into believing they were acting out God’s will

   So we are going to ignore the remarks about being “driven with a mission from God” who would tell him to “go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan…and end the tyranny in Iraq? Just google crusade, mission from God, Bush or better yet read the book “The fall of the house Bush”

   Iraq was invaded for frequent violations of UN rules concerning biochemical warfare inspection infractions and suspected chemical weapons manufacturing. Just because they didn’t find them doesn’t mean they didn’t exist.

   Well not only did they not exist, no sign of them was ever found. A moot point however because it is a nonsense to suggest the ongoing disaster in Iraq is not religion based, with Muslim against Muslim and Muslim against all others.

   Nice of you to mention Syria how is that shaping up as another religious based bloodbath?

   Patrick most would agree that after 9/11 the US was justified in kicking those evil religious nutcases the Taliban back to the stone age (not far for them actually). However, most would also agree that Iraq has been a disaster of inept planning and frankly misinformation costing thousands of innocent lives and many brave soldiers.

   It is simply stunning that could you even suggest that Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan do not have religion at the core of the bloodshed. Then again with your opening statement that its not Catholic Priests guilty of abusing children but homosexuals who entered the priesthood. Convoluted logic even for you Patrick.

7. Patrick says:

   June 19, 2013 at 9:34 am

   Hi Oigal – I see your up to your old tricks again and that is rehashing old debates from previous pages without offering any new insights based on credible evidence but rather based on your bias vision of the world according to liberal thinkers.

   Lets start with North Korea and your belief that they are not a credible nuclear threat. According to an unclassified document from the Department of Defence for the USA they have the capability to detonate nuclear devices even if their current arsenal is considered to be small. The report went on to confirm that these nuclear devices can be delivered by North Korea using Ballistic missiles. It was no coincidence that the day that the DOD document was announced that Secretary of Defence Chuck Hagel said that neither Iran or North Korea were capable, at the present time, of attacking the United States with nuclear weapons. However, he did not say that North Korea was not capable of attacking its neighbors. He later said that North Korea had the weapons to kill millions of people with its present arsenal of nuclear weapons.

   Correct me if I am wrong, but your recent post is asking why such high concentrations of pedophiles in certain dioceses within the Church and you point out Melbourne, Boston and the country of Ireland? Honestly, I don’t know the conviction rate but I do know that in past decades a sub-culture of homosexuality has been allowed to flourish within the Catholic Church and as the University of Otaga report states there is substantial evidence linking homosexuality to pedophile attacks. All this has been previously documented here on this thread and if you go back a few pages you will find the clear evidence showing that homosexuals, although only a small percentage of the population, are responsible for a high proportion of the sexual attacks against young boys. You would be a reckless parent indeed if you allowed your young son to be left alone with a homosexual man as you would be playing a dangerous game of roulette.

8. Oigal says:

   June 20, 2013 at 3:41 pm

   Well Patrick, I would view any intelligence (?) about WMD from the US with a fair bit of fairy dust after the past few years wouldn’t you say. Although you and I know it is a red herring to suggest that was the main point we were talking about with NK. You used NK as an example that NK (and Helen of Troy ..chuckle) was a oppressive, aggressive nation where religion played no part. My point is that is a nonsense position to take. Dear Leader (jnr) it’s regime has every single attribute of a cult religion and the dark it brings humanity, including shrines and blind obedience.

   Correct me if I am wrong, but your recent post is asking why such high concentrations of pedophiles in certain dioceses within the Church and you point out Melbourne, Boston and the country of Ireland? Honestly, I don’t know the conviction rate but I do know that in past decades a sub-culture of homosexuality has been allowed to flourish within the Catholic Church and as the University of Otaga report states there is substantial evidence linking homosexuality to pedophile attacks.

   Actually I am asking you no such thing. In fact your base premise your inference that by use of “certain dioceses”, “conviction rates” certainly does reflect the churches continued position to pretend the problem is both limited and isolated in scope. What does it take? How many more cover-ups, criminal acts? The ongoing protection of the organisation at the expense of the victims is both repugnant and indefensible. ||

   To use a term you are familiar with ….JESUS! What more do you need? The Melbourne inquiry alone has uncovered over 60 creepiods, along with the destruction of evidence and other culpable crimes. Are you suggesting that this was some isolated infiltration by evil doers. The situations repeats itself all over the world, want some more? try spain, italy and east timor.

   Yet again, rather than face the facts you try (as does the church) to divert the conversation into the unrelated proven nonsense that homosexuality = pedophilia. Last time you brought it up, your study was ridiculed by myself and others with the study time and again proven to be nonsense. Of course, this defence (?) is just yet another red herring.

   So to help keep you on track, name three significant conflicts anywhere in the world where religion is not a core factor?

9. Patrick says:

   June 24, 2013 at 8:55 am

   @Oigal – First the only fairy dust being thrown around is obviously from you as you keep repeating, again and again, the LIBERAL lie that the USA had no right to invade Iraq. The invasion was just on several grounds that include enforcing treaties from Desert Storm. These are well documented violations of the UN agreement and they include illegal attempts to prevent UN inspection teams from discovering research concerning Missle, nuclear and bio-chemical activity. The invasion was also just on humanitarian grounds as Saddam and his Bath Party henchmen had carried out for decades intimidation, murders, kidnappings, beatings, imprisonments, rapes and genocides against citizens of Iraq who lived in constant fear. As you may know, approximately 8.5 million people risked their lives to wait in line and vote for the first democratically elected parliament since the downfall of Saadam. Ask those people how many of them would want to go back to the prewar Iraq?

   Oigal, you give yourself too much credit as usual as you have yet to debunk any study that links homosexuality to pedophiles. It is more like that I have many times debunked the myth, that the liberals around the world, along with an overwhelming biased liberal media, have created about homosexuality being a misunderstood, harmless lifestyle that one is born with as study after study paints a different and rather disturbing picture. The Catholic Church’s pedophile problems can be directly linked to the ever increasing admittance of homosexuals into its ranks shortly after Vatican II.

   1. Mexico 2. Ivory Coast 3. Papua Conflict and lots of others if you want?

10. Oigal says:

    July 1, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    “The invasion was just on several grounds that include enforcing treaties from Desert Storm. These are well documented violations of the UN agreement and they include illegal attempts to prevent UN inspection teams from discovering research concerning Missle, nuclear and bio-chemical activity.”

    And after billions of dollars and countless lives tell me again how is this search for WMD going so far? I do note you are skipping over that one a little.

    The invasion was also just on humanitarian grounds as Saddam and his Bath Party henchmen had carried out for decades intimidation, murders, kidnappings, beatings, imprisonments, rapes and genocides against citizens of Iraq who lived in constant fear.

    As opposed to now? Patrick the fine, noble image of the US riding in to save the world, give us democracy and freedom just doesn’t match reality. No one is saying Saddam’s Iraq was utopia but it was the same Iraq USA h ad not problems arming when Iraq was fighting Iran. Certainly no worse than a hundred other despotic regimes? Do you really think that Iraq will be any better once the US leaves?

    No Patrick, sorry the location, timing and structure of your so called Study was debunked several times please go back a read. What study after study?

    No Patrick has is being born out now is the churches kiddie fiddling goes back generations and sadly unlike your previous post it would appear the the organisation is likely suffer 40 times the rate of this kind of thing than other like organisations.

    BTW…Which is it, the church is being unfairly accused or the homosexuals have taken over. Your defence is getting rather confused.

    Mexico, really?? and Papua has a lot to do with religion

11. Oigal says:

    July 2, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Oh dear Patrick, sure enough I had just finished reading your rather bizarre claim that

    The Catholic Church’s pedophile problems can be directly linked to the ever increasing admittance of homosexuals into its ranks shortly after Vatican II.

    when the current investigation in Australia once again puts to bed yet bed yet another lie from an organisation that has simply fails to face the truth and depth of evil within its ranks.

    Correct me if I am wrong but V2 was 1962? (ish), sadly for you, the same day you make you claim they uncover yet another filthy, church protected creature who was first accused in 1955. So much for the V2 nonsensical line of defence. Oh and before you claim isolated case or time, do read the report on the literally hundreds of cases dated back generations and until the present day.

    What is really sad is people like yourself really still do not get it.

    myth….have created about homosexuality being a misunderstood, harmless lifestyle that one is born with

    As opposed to a myth that a lifetime of celibacy and an occupation with regular contract with young vulnerable boys is a lifestyle one is born with? If you want to raise the unnatural nonsense, is there anything more unnatural than celibacy in any species?

12. Patrick says:

    July 2, 2013 at 8:52 pm

    @ Oigal – my oh my! Such venomous attacks against the church and coming on the heels of one of your Aussie brethren being convicted in a California court for abusing his own adopted (from Russia) son. His marital spouse, rather surprisingly, another gay man from New Zealand was also facing charges.the years of sexual abuse for the victim began when he was only a few weeks old. Another fine and gaily colored feather in the hat for those who believe homosexual marriage is just as sacred and legitimate as heterosexual marriage. Police are still investigating an international ring of homosexual pedophiles that these two Australien men belonged to and that helped purchase the boy for $8,000 USD.

    It also comes on the day that many newspapers were reporting that the late Micheal Jackson shelled out over $35 million in cash settlements to keep his victims, young boys, quiet.

    Let us not also forget the recent scandals at the Universities of Penn State and Syracuse as they are more reminders that these crimes are monstrous in nature and not isolated to te Catholic Church no matter how Oigal wishes it to be true.

13. Oigal says:

    July 3, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    Sad Patrick, the six year old child defence “Aww but he does it too”

    No one ever said the issue was restricted to Catholic Church, the churches continued cover ups and denials (like yours) are what makes it additionally repugnant.

    Micheal Jackson shelled out over $35 million in cash settlements to keep his victims, young boys, quiet

    Do you really want to go into cash and victim abuse as regards the Church Patrick..? really?

    His marital spouse, rather surprisingly, another gay man from New Zealand was also facing charges.the years of sexual abuse for the victim began when he was only a few weeks old. Another fine and gaily colored feather in the hat for those who believe homosexual marriage is just as sacred and legitimate as heterosexual marriage.

    So if I put an incident of a “straight” couple abusing their child then that is sufficient to suggest that your version of marriage is not legitimate then? Curious logic and frankly a red herring as the issue of gay marriage is non issue for most.

    What we are talking about is an institution that claims moral superiority yet continues to cover up and facilitate the abuse of minors. Did you even read about the hundreds of cases of abuse in the current investigation in Australia or is it easier to pretend it did not happen. You are correct it is not only the church but church stands doubly condemned for its destruction of evidence, cover ups and even the avoidance of compensation to victims. All the claims about vatican 2 and a homosexual conspiracy is just yet another smokescreen of ignorance.

    Now, please stop deflecting and address the issues raised.

14. Patrick says:

    July 3, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Dear Oigal – Once again you failed to make the obvious connection. The pedeophile problem is mainly a homosexual problem in the Catholic Church. Michael Jackson was a homosexual. Jerry Sandusky is a homosexual and Bernie Fine is a homosexual. The incidence of pedophile attacks by priest in the USA, between 1950 qnd 2001 was that 81% of the victims were boys. All or almost all the other victims of the three aforementioned men were also boys.

    So you think I have curious logic? Well dear the homosexual couple who sexually abused their adopted boy starting when he was only a few weeks old was not an isolated case. They were members of a well organized and financed ring of homosexuals pedophiles with the sole purpose of supplying defenseless young infants and boys to men who see them as sexual objects. I find it strikingly hypocritical of you to condem straight men who abuse women as sexual objects but yet you have no problem defending homosexual pedophiles from doing the same to a young infant. Shame on you!

    I do not defend, nor have i ever defended, the Child abusers within the ranks of the Catholic Church and I am on record here at IM with that position. I have called, in the past, for the immediate removal and defrocking of any priest found guilty of this heinous crime. Further, I have stated that all priests and bishops who covered up such crimes should also be removed from active ministry.

    As a side note, Penn State investigation into Jerry Sandusky alleged that he was part of a larger organized ring of homosexual pedophiles working in concert to sexually abuse boys.

15. Oigal says:

    July 5, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, Do try and focus and I thought it was a sin to tell fibs. Not suggest that I defended anyone is just a big whopper and you know it. However, I will keep calling you back on topic every time you try and deflect.

    We are and have been talking about the systematic, continued and widespread abuse of children in the church no amount of deflection by yourself changes that. Nor did I accuse you of defending the actual creatures than conducted or facilitated the same (unlike your false accusations towards me but it’s ok I forgive you as you don’t have much to work with in the way of facts).

    You stand condemned not as a defender of the creatures but as a defender of the insitution that allowed and continues to allow it to occur. Like the church you still view the insitution more important than the victim and by smokescreen, deflection and plain untruth continue facilitate the abuse.

    I am encourage however to see you calling for the Pope to be defrocked as head of an organisation that has committed gross criminal acts and as for any director of any large
    company he has the ultimate responsibility.

    Oh and thanks for this one…So the church doesnt have a pedophile problem it has homosexuals who are pedophiles? WTF?

    Oooh wait hang on..didn’t you say before there was no problem before Vatican 2 (1962?) but now you are quoting reports from 1950…oh my…(oh an doh…how many alter girls are there).

16. kripik says:

    July 6, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    So if indeed “gay pedophiles” are identified as perpetrators of the rape cases why haven’t we seen these people being excommunicated and handed over to authorities? But in stead we see these criminals being transferred to other dioceses and seminaries, victims and their families being lured with hush money and authorities investigating these cases being deliberately hindered!

17. Patrick says:

    July 15, 2013 at 11:41 am

    “You stand condemned not as a defender of the creatures but as a defender of an institution that allowed and continues to allow it to occur.”

    Saints Peter, Paul, Francis of Assisi, Ignatius de Loyola, Teresa, and others were true defenders of the Faith and the institution you know to be the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Unfortunately, i cannnot be honored by you or anyone to be a defender of the faith as I am persona non gratis to the Hierarchy and many priests here in my country. Oh I didn’t do anything wrong such as commit criminal acts or the like. However, I was not very educated, nor polished, nor much of a diplomat, or a very good schmoozer. I had audacity to attempt to do a job that had previously been held by priests and for the reasons I stated above I was more the proverbial “bull in a China shop”. One example was when I was in Rome I had a meal where an important Archbishop engaged me in conversation of why Irishmen could drink whiskey straight and he, of Irish decent, could not? My answer was meant to be humorous as I said we Irishmen were real men and they had become too watered down”. The Archbishop was unable to conceal his anger as his face flushed red as he knew that I meant too many priests were openly acting in a gay manner. Another example was when I did some work for the Legionairres of Christ and after hearing for months about their beloved founder, Fr. Maciel, finally went to a mass and received communion from him. Afterwards, I was back at the office and surrounded by Legionairres priests, seminarians and lay supporters when I was suddenly asked about my experience at mass. I immediately said I had the pleasure of once meeting with Pope John Paul II and felt in my heart that he was a holy man but I did not get that same feeling about Fr. Mariel. The room full of people became silent as they were stunned anyone would dare say these words. This was years before the scandal broke and Fr. Maciel was exposed as a fraud. Needless to say I was soon moving on.

18. Oigal says:

    July 16, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    Extremely curious you would hold Ireland as the home of all that is good and true of the Institution. How is that criminal inquiry dating back decades going? How about the orphan slave house investigations?

    Defend the faith all you wish Patrick. You can worship the noodly monster from planet nine with my best wishes if you so desire but the institution itself stands compromised beyond rational redemption. My issue is not with creation myth and its subsequent faith sequels (call it scary movie 1, 2,3,4,5 if it helps), I do however have an issue with the institution and its minions getting off scott free.

    To make it easy for you:

    1. Are various US diocese declaring bankruptcy to avoid legally sanctioned payouts to church abuse victims?
    2. Is the Australian Catholic Church utilising every legal trick in the book to limit the maximum payout to victims to below 75K
    3. Has any official of the church been defrocked for covering up or destroying evidence relating to abuse?
    4. Do any of the above really demonstrate an institution that grasps the magnitude of the evil at its core

19. hersdyanata says:

    July 20, 2013 at 5:17 am

    i wonder how the atheism can keep their principle that “there is no God”.
    then how can be they are exist in the world?
    born in the stone like gukong?

20. Oigal says:

    July 20, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    It really is simple Hersdyanata. It is called having an open and critical thinking mind and rejecting a bunch of dark age creation myths.

    Fact is you are a atheist! You reject the gods of the Vikings, the spirits of the celts and the Gods of the Incas as baseless and improbable myths. Atheists for instance reject just one more.

    Of course, you would win more support if followers of thier various myths would stop chopping the heads off schoolgirls, burning Muslims, Hindu or Christians out of their homes and bombing innocents in the name of their God/s

    As for where did we come from, put down the dusty tomes of intolerance and read a science book work your way up to evolution. You may even learn that man has already created a living organism from chemicals.

21. Patrick says:

    July 22, 2013 at 9:05 am

    New York Newspapers are reporting today that the Brooklyn District Attorney’s Office is releasing the names of 46 men and one woman from the Ultra-Orthodox Jewish community who have been convicted of sexually assaulting children in their tight knit community. My guess is that the Catholic Church’s policy of celibacy can’t be blamed for these crimes. And before anyone tries to blame religion we only have to look at Gay Atheists Organizations such as the North American Man Boy Associaion to see who is in the forefront of promoting the legalization of children and adults having sexual relations. Let’s recognize, once and for all, that this evil cuts across many elements of society and is hardly isolated to just the Catholic Church.

22. Oigal says:

    July 26, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    Dearie Me, Patrick you really just don’t get it do you?

    No one has ever said it just applies to the Catholic CHurch although as you have high lighted above any cult that promotes blind obedience and ritual over the individual promotes a nice little safe cesspool for the evil to grow.

    The point which you continually miss is the Catholic Church’s refusal to acknowledge and deal with the issue. If you wish to disagree then I ask you again (try not to red herring or sidetrack)

    1. Are various US diocese still declaring bankruptcy to avoid legally sanctioned payouts to church abuse victims?
    2. Is the Australian Catholic Church utilising every legal trick in the book to limit the maximum payout to victims to below 75K
    3. Has any official of the church been defrocked for covering up or destroying evidence relating to abuse?
    4. Do any of the above really demonstrate an institution that grasps the magnitude of the evil at its core

23. BrotherMouzone says:

    July 26, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    Patrick,

    Not really related to the argument, but I had a thought the other day (it’s a rare enough occurrence that I thought it worth mentioning).

    For the first time in human history, pretty much everybody in the developed world now carries a camera phone around with them everywhere they go. And yet, not a single verified photograph/video of Jesus, Mary, Bigfoot, or a UFO has shown up.

    Yet, before the advent of the cameraphone, the faithful – notably my Catholic brethren – were reporting apparitions left, right, and center.

    Are Jesus and Mary camera shy?

24. BrotherMouzone says:

    July 26, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    @ Hersdyanata

    You find it impossible to believe that something just came into existence.

    But using that same reasoning; Who created God? If we believe that it is impossible for something to just come into existence through a cataclysmic event without being created by some supernatural being, then we also must believe that it is impossible for that supernatural being to have come into existence without being… erm… created by another supernatural being. And so on, and so on…

25. Patrick says:

    July 27, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    @Brother M – Our Lady of Guadalupe left a beautiful painting of herself on the garment worn by the poor Indian named Juan Diego on December 9, 1531. It still on display in Mexicio City at the Catholic Basilica named in honor of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

    Coptic Christians have videos of who they believe is Mary. The Coptics claim she has appeared to them many times and you can go to youtube and view them for yourself.

26. BrotherMouzone says:

    July 28, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    @ Patrick

    A painting done in 1531? Well, game over folks, we have definite proof.

    I just searched for those Coptic Christian videos of Mary. Are you SURE you want to hitch your wagon to this horse?

    This video is my personal favorite. This is either definitive proof of the existence of a flying Mary, or definite proof that at least one Coptic Christian owns a torch… Occam’s Razor would suggest that we just go ahead and believe in flying Mary.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R9dOFU9qUI

27. Oigal says:

    July 29, 2013 at 8:50 am

    Laugh…Reminds me of one of my more “mean” jokes on the family in my only recently passed smoking days (oh I miss that little slice of heaven). Bought one of those little lighters with a torch in the end. Lo and behold, I discovered that not only was it a torch but had a picture of a nice looking woman that you could project on the wall when you turned on the torch.

    Well, as we know most Indonesians are very “spiritual” so a slow pass over the walls from a suitable distance from a very easily hidden lighter really got things going for over a week. “Did you see that?” “No…what?” etc etc

    Of course, when eventually I overplayed my hand and left the form on the wall too long and they realised the woman was naked, suspicion went from the spirit would to yours truly rather quickly. Needless to say, repercussions were swift and severe 🙂

28. Cut Nyak says:

    July 30, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    Hi guys,
    I am Indonesian, female, and proud atheist..
    Wish someday indonesia will delete religion column in any forms and id,,but it long way to go..need to amend the 45 law about ‘indonesia as a religious nation who believe in one god’ first…anyway,,i found lots lots of indonesian muslims who never pray, never come to mosque,,blind anything bout his religion but…will get very angry if you call them infidel or atheist,,i don’t understand why…anyway,,i am born muslim in a very relious fanatic muslim and wearing veil daily,,,

29. madrotter says:

    August 1, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    waaaahahhahaa oigal, nice one 🙂 i can just picture it waaahhahha

    gotta be hard for you cut nyak….

30. Oigal says:

    August 2, 2013 at 9:16 am

    Well as I am telling old boring personal stories..

    At our last house, for whatever reason the 2nd bathroom shower would turn itself on for no reason (be it hammering water in the pipes or whatever).

    Well again due to the spiritual nature of the “young uns” this was terrifying them as it was obviously a Ghost. So we came up with a plan and explained that yes it was Ghost (other rational reasons were not acceptable) but his name was Jack and he was a soldier who died in World War 2 who came to our house because there was lots of Australian footy on TV and he missed the footy. However every time he woke up he was covered in the mud from that battle and that is why he had to shower lots.

    Well this worked a treat to the extent that when we moved we have to leave detailed instructions about how to get to the new house and how to turn on the shower.

    On a more traditional spirit story, remind me to tell you about the “Flying Knife” that haunts a section of road to this day haphazardly beheading the innocent.