Atheist Threat
Oct 10th, 2008, in News, by Patung
Young atheists on the internet, and eradicating atheism and communism in Indonesia.
Governor of North Sumatra, Syamsul Arifin, said on 8th October at an occasion marking Pancasila Day that all elements of the nation must continually fight against and eradicate atheist beliefs among the people.
Atheism, which seeks to erase Pancasila and which once threatened the nation in the guise of the Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI), and still does, has to be guarded against, particularly because it still finds support among sections of the poor.
Syamsul said children should be taught from primary school through to university to hate atheism, so that the creed could as far as possible be obliterated.
A 4th ‘T’ – Rakyat tidak ateis.
The butchery of the atheist-PKI backed murderers of the September 30 Movement of 1965 (G30S PKI) could not be allowed to happen again, he said, hence the need to struggle against atheism. beritasore
Young Internet Atheists
On the internet at least some Indonesians seem happy to declare themselves as unbelievers.
Running an “affiliation” search on the social network site Friendster.com for “atheist” brings up about 144 matches friendster.com, while “ateis” produces 185 odd results friendster.com, although more than a few seem to be claiming to be atheist as some kind of joke.
On the same site, created on January 23rd, 2007 is the “Atheist Indonesia” group friendster.com, with 76 members and a fairly active message board, and some of its members seem to be active in an Indonesian language Atheist Wikipedia. ateisindonesia.wikidot.com
1,311 Comments on “Atheist Threat”
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tomaculum says:
If, then I’would be so proud to be satan’s slave. But I think those like Ricky Shedo are the real satan’s slaves trying to seduce us. š
And my Lord in me (remember Dewaruci) spoke: “why are you bother what others do? Look inside yourself…….” -
Stupid Bule says:
@ Jamma,
Loved your Monty Pythion rendition, H ahHHaaa
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Odinius says:
It’s not what you believe, it’s how you interact with other people.
If you respect other points of view, and treat everyone as an individual, you can’t really go wrong. Loads of religious and non-religious people do this.
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@ DumadiSatrio
Pol Pot and the like have proved otherwise.
Granted, they were not using a ādogmaā of atheism as a justification, however they killed many to surpress religion, which they found dangerous.
They did however share something very important in common with the militant religious fundamentalistā¦.The unwavering belief that they are absolutely correct and anyone who disagrees is absolutely wrong and bad
Point taken, I guess that leaves us all in this “big boat” together…maybe I should of said ‘autruistic Atheists’
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DumadiSatrio said:
They did however share something very important in common with the militant religious fundamentalistā¦.The unwavering belief that they are absolutely correct and anyone who disagrees is absolutely wrong and bad
Yeah this is spot on. You don’t have to be religious to be a fundamentalist, a militant or an extremist. It’s that mentality which is the problem, not the content underneath it.
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@ Odinius
You donāt have to be religious to be a fundamentalist, a militant or an extremist. Itās that mentality which is the problem, not the content underneath it.
So is the point that’s being made here; no matter if you are Religious, Atheist or otherwise, there still remains the possibility of a breakdown in altruistic values and/or reasoning?
Animals by definition are Atheists, and yet most exhibit altruistic behaviours that facilitate a harmonious co-existence. They too suffer under the burden of āmomentary lapses of reasonā. They do all this without an elaborate pious belief system, mathematics, or a written language. Itās been argued that humans are a more highly evolved life form than all other animals on Earth. Yet even with our opposable thumbs, higher reasoning skills, language, and those elaborate pious convictions, (or as DumadiSatrio pointed out, even without) we are really no different than the animals we assert our superiority over, weāre just better at it.
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Patrick says:
Stupid bule says “Animals by definition are Atheists,” Does that mean you believe that atheists and animals lack the intelligence needed to believe in God? : > )
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I don’t know where this leaves us in regards to the “Atheist Threat”. Among the human population āThe Big 3ā Christians, Muslims and Hindus make up the lions share of believers, interestingly the second largest group is the ānon-religiousā, followed by the marginal religions. (I just know Iām going to get into trouble here somewhereā¦) If we were to add all altruistic life forms to this equation, the total sum of Atheists alive at any one time, would be by far the largest population on Earth.
I think it was Richard Dawkins who said, “We are all atheists about most of the Gods that humanity has ever believed in, some of us just go one God further.
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@ Patrick
Stupid bule says āAnimals by definition are Atheists,ā Does that mean you believe that atheists and animals lack the intelligence needed to believe in God? : > )
No…I mean you would need a LACK of intelligence to believe in God…
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Stupid Bule said:
So is the point thatās being made here; no matter if you are Religious, Atheist or otherwise, there still remains the possibility of a breakdown in altruistic values and/or reasoning?
As I see it, if you’re a Catholic nut, a Muslim nut, a Communist nut or a libertarian nut…you’re still just a nut!
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Astrajingga says:
I wonder if there’s any non-violence altruistic nut?
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I wonder if thereās any non-violence altruistic nut?
Yeah, I see one everytime I look in the the mirror…
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Odinius said;
As I see it, if youāre a Catholic nut, a Muslim nut, a Communist nut or a libertarian nutā¦youāre still just a nut!
TouchƩ
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DumadiSatrio says:
haha, all this reminds me of a poem I read a while back by Abdul Al Ma’arri
(excuse if any of his lines offends, I think it is part of the point)
Burning stakes blossom from the footsteps of of the christ redeemers;
the Quran fashions daggers carried by true believers;
the atheist has faith in what his eyes disclose,
the Sufi, in what he sees when both his eyes are closed.
It is a Buddhist doctrine that all doctrines must fail;
the Hebrew knows nothing, in exquisite detail;
the Brahmin fears risks that in his next life he runs;
the hedonist trembles, for his life comes only once
and briefly.
In the great insane asylum
of this revolving earth chaos creates the rules.
There are believing and unbelieving fools. -
I wonder if thereās any non-violence altruistic nut?
Yeah, I see one everytime I look in the the mirrorā¦
Stupid bule: so ‘you’re still just a nut?’
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Stupid bule: so āyouāre still just a nut?ā
Well, I’m human, so that makes me a nut…:)
Master Zorg says hi…
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@DumadiSatrio
In the great insane asylum
of this revolving earth chaos creates the rules.
There are believing and unbelieving fools.Music to my ears friend…:)
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@DumadiSatrio
Fantastic poem!
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I posted it just because it made the one point we seem to all agree on…. we’re all nuts š
Honestly, I always did kind of like Al Maarri.
He can be a very nihlistic at times, but had a sharp wit.If you could ever find it, look for Epistle of Forgiveness.
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Lairedion says:
Kangmas DumadiSatrio,
Offtopic: Now that AAB is no longer with us diego was wondering who should be the representative of Javaism. I would like to recommend you if that’s OK with you.
Matur nuwun,
RM Lairedion -
DumadiSatrio said:
I posted it just because it made the one point we seem to all agree onā¦. weāre all nuts
Honestly, I always did kind of like Al Maarri.
He can be a very nihlistic at times, but had a sharp wit.If you could ever find it, look for Epistle of Forgiveness.
I’ll take a look!
Kangmas DumadiSatrio,
Offtopic: Now that AAB is no longer with us diego was wondering who should be the representative of Javaism. I would like to recommend you if thatās OK with you.
Matur nuwun,
RM LairedionWhatever happened to AAB? For that matter, whatever happened the Schmerly?
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@ Odinius – Oh the characters here on IM come and go depending on the resident Linda Blair and which one is currently possessing her @ the time ….ha ha ha
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Oigal says:
Oh the characters here on IM come and go depending on the resident Linda Blair and which one is currently possessing her @ the time
Oh no, not true… Patrick manages rise time again from the dead like a fanatical genital wart to convince us we all have booked front row seats in hell…
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@ Oigal never had genital warts so don’t know how fanatical they may be? But I will take your word for it as you are without doubt no stranger to such things. HELL is wherever you hang your hat Oigal and please give MD all my best won’t you? Miss her…hihihihihihihihihi
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ET says:
Janma said
* Many things in the universe may either exist or not exist. Such things are called contingent beings.
This is a false premise in Aquinas’ proof of the existence of god. Non-existence is in fact a contradiction in terms, logically and empirically. If non-being would exist then it wouldn’t no longer be non-being but become a part of reality. This is a similar rationale as used in the a priori argument of St. Anselm in the 11th century, who said that āthat than which nothing greater can be conceivedā must exist in fact as well as in thought, for if it existed only in thought and not in fact, something greater than it could be conceived, namely the same thing existing in fact.
The conclusion is that the universe and all of it’s contents must be eternal and wasn’t created, because creation postulates a former state of non-being which is contradictory. Only transformation exists which is the essence of the universe. This doesn’t exclude the existence of god as an ultimate reality but sheds an entire different light on it’s meaning and importance.Sorry for becoming metaphysical again. š
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Oigal
Quick quiz..Which religious leader was a member of the Hilter Youth in his formative years??
Without wanting to defend the guy you refer to or what he represents, accusing him of having been a member of the Hitler Youth is at least unfair and counterproductive to the position you try to convey. He was barely an adolescent at the time and all German children were automatically enlisted in the Hitler Jugend organization.
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@ ET
Without wanting to defend the guy you refer to or what he represents, accusing him of having been a member of the Hitler Youth is at least unfair and counterproductive to the position you try to convey. He was barely an adolescent at the time and all German children were automatically enlisted in the Hitler Jugend organization.
I agree mate, children are at the mercy of their elders.
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@ ET
No. Noone will ever be convinced by these discussions. Because most people enter these discussions with preconceived ideas based on education and socio-cultural, even psychological patterns. They have internalized these patterns to a degree that their belief or non-belief in a god has become part of their individual personality set-up and departing from it would be experienced as an act of self-denial or mental suicide.
For believers this becomes even more evident when morality is viewed as based on divine guidance or law. The two become interwoven so that denial of one is automatically viewed as rejection of the other. God is regarded as the creator of everything, also moral order, so rejection of the god-notion would automatically be interpreted as rejection of any moral order. The resulting fear of chaos makes them cling to their familiar theological constructions and prevent them from further critical investigation.
Non-believers on the contrary consider the possible existence of god as a threat upon their ideas of self-determination and imagined freedom from dogmatic influence, thereby forgetting that their own views – and in fact the general make-up of human society itself – are also a constraint forcing them into cultural and political correctness. When confronted with this however they will tie themselves in all kinds of knots to hold on to their preconceptions.
So these discussions are basically dead-end streets . Why canāt people just honestly admit that they donāt know and get on with their lives? Meanwhile nothing prevents them from looking for the answers, provided they pose the right questions.
Beautifully argued ET. I’d love to know where you sourced your information. It has given me alot to think about, thanks very much.
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@ Stupid Bule
Beautifully argued ET. Iād love to know where you sourced your information. It has given me alot to think about, thanks very much.
Thanks for the compliment. As to where I sourced my information, I learned a lot here in IM and then put my own brains to work.
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