Chinese Muslims
Oct 17th, 2008, in News, by Patung
A minority within a minority, organization and numbers of Chinese Muslims in Java and North Sumatra.
Masjid Lautze 1
In Pecinan, Pasar Baru, Jakarta is located the Masjid Lautze (or Lao Tze), the centre of the Chinese Muslim community in the city, built in 1991, and, perhaps not inappropriately, being located within a ruko commercial complex.
The mosque is run by the Yayasan Haji Karim Oei, which bears the name of businessman/politician Abdul Karim aka Oei Tjen Hien/Tjeng Hien (Haji Abdurkarim), a man from Padang who converted to Islam in 1929 and was thereafter active in Muhammadiyah and Masyumi. The mosque is run by his son, Ali Karim Oei, who claims that in Jakarta City ethnic Chinese make up about 20% of the 8 million population, and of these he estimates that 5% are Muslim.
Abdul Karim Oei Tjeng Hien.
One reason there is uncertainty over the number of Chinese Muslims, says Ali, is because such people are difficult to keep track of, as they tend to intermarry with other, non-Chinese, Muslims, and thereafter, depending on one’s view, lose their distinctive ethnic identity, or gain a new one/become assimilated.
Nationally, according to the Yayasan Persatuan Islam Tionghoa Indonesia (PITI), which was founded in 1961, there are at the least 80,000 Muslim Chinese, while the vast majority of Chinese are Christian or Confucian/Konghucu.
Since 1991 about 1600 people in Jakarta have undergone conversion at the Lautze mosque, one of the most recent of these being Paulus Prasetya, 32 years old, now known as Mohammad Rizqi. He says when he felt called to Islam he sought out the Lautze mosque in Pecinan, and now after converting attends everyday to pray and receive instruction, and says he feels comfortable there because there are many new converts, who similarly lack much knowledge of the faith.
Masjid Lautze 2
The Yayasan Haji Karim Oei also runs “Masjid Lautze 2”, in Bandung, West Java, on Jalan Tamblong, built in 1997 and located on the ground floor of a rented ruko/shop front building, measuring only 7 x 6 metres and capable of holding 60 people. During office hours it is used by many non-Chinese who work nearby, while the core, regular attendance is about 20.
Muhammad Sultoni of Masjid Lautze 2 says it is best to be located in a business district because most potential converts are business types, and in any case funds are not available to build a “proper” mosque. gatra
In 2004 a special body was formed at the mosque, called Muallaf Networking, and since that time about 70 new converts have been won, it is said. antara
Cheng Hoo, Surabaya
The Muslim Chinese community in Surabaya, East Java is centred on the Cheng Hoo mosque, built in 2002. The caretaker of the mosque, Abdul Halim Muhammad, or Li Guang Lin, claims there are something over 6000 [sic] Chinese in Surabaya, and of these 700 are Muslim. The growth of the community there is the most rapid in Indonesia, he says, increasing by 30 new converts every year.
He adds that the Cheng Ho mosque is expressly intended to receive new converts, and keeps away from doctrinal disputes in Islam by having no specific affiliation with any organisation or stream of thought, such as Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah, or Shia, or Wahabi.
The penetration of Islam into the Chinese community is felt to have advanced the furthest in East Java as a whole, with PITI’s provincial office having 26 branches with 8,000 members, with many members having deep links with Nahdlatul Ulama, some of them occupying senior positions within it.
Medan
Chinese Muslims in the North Sumatra capital are grouped under the Himpunan Pembauran Muslim Tionghoa Indonesia (HPMTI), founded in 1983 by a Mrs Maimunah/Maemunah, and separate from PITI.
According to HPMTI there are about 1,000 Muslim families out of 460,000 Chinese in the city. Head of the organisation, Nuraini aka Wong Sueng, says it is difficult to attract converts because Islam is cursed with a stigma of being violent and threatening, and because families will fiercely resist if one member desires to enter Islam.
She adds, possibly ruefully, that many of her members are still attached to traditional non-Islamic customs, such as visiting ancestors’ tombs/remains at the Festival of the Tombs time (Cheng Beng), but adds that they do not participate in prayers or light candles or joss sticks. gatra
75 Comments on “Chinese Muslims”
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janma says:
yes yes….. a tiger can never change his spots either….. oh wait a minute! He did, awww, look at that! Good for him!
Janma – cackling….
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Purba Negoro says:
Janma,
Is it my English or your manner of writing style I don’t understand? Could you please clarify what you mean?
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sputjam says:
If the word tuhan originates from chinese words Tau Han as barry claimed, then there is no malay word for God. which means, before the arrival of hinduism in the malay archipelago, malays were godless, and prayed to spirits.
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Sputjam – sorry utter nonsense.
If bull-sheet was electricity- Britain would have no need for nuclear as Bazza would be the nations’ dynamo.
If Barry had more than two ideas to rub together- his head might ignite.Barry is yet another puffed up English Chardonnay Commie- Guradian-reading type armchair revolutionary- getting his mincing self all miffed about how the faithful servants of Empire Chinamen are being treated so horridly by those uppity beastly Malay Mohammadite Indians.
Barrry is the type who wantonly masturbates to Raffles’, the Raffles’ Club and James Brookes and other childishly cobbled drivel to appease the angst ridden social climbing Victorian British.
Such a self-righteous, repugnant smug self-appointed moral arbiter, mincing about wringing his limp-wristed hands in his Islington village.
His land in ruins about him, a covert plan to import 50 million even more thugs, hoodies and assorted yobbos “I and I is British too, juth aks me Mon” type Yardies and other utter dregs of the sewer the utterly gutless and mindless modern Brtish all seem to hug with relish.Sorry-not at all true.
The terms Dewa and Dewi- replaced the previous terms- which have been somewhat lost to history.The idea that people have no concept of their own for Gods and Goddesses is completely laughable.
Do not the Australian Aborigines have the Rainbow Serpent?
Innuit have the Great Crow?In Javanese Catholic Churches He is referred to as “I Gusti”, “Allah” and “I Maha Esta”.
Batak have a different and unique language0- which I sadly am not knowledgeable enough to comment on aside from I wish I knew it better.
Sorry- Barry wrong again with your attempts to rewrite Chinese favourably into history.
They were are and always will be footstools to one Lord or another. This time it is us as Lord and MAster of our own Javanese Majaphit- the same one the British now mince and stammer Hugh-Grant-esque over “ever so politely, Sir, as you wish Your Excellence Lord Purba Negoro” for some scraps of work as your financial spivs have devastated your nation.Nigel- grow some backbone and an original thought luvvy.
The modern day Brit is typified either by some loud mouth multi-dad scrubber, the Mondeo Man or pub-room wide boy aka Eastenders.
Best exemplified by mincing Blair and waddling Brown.I know many British expats here and while most are crude, some just young mincers, finding out the air in the tropics lets things drop- almost none want to return to New Tobago- Nigeria upon Blighty.
You’re a global laughing stock and your Scots are wetting their Fanta pants at you, laughing all the way back to the Heelands with their loot from RBS, using your scrotums as bagpipe bladders.
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“Oh I say, Mr Putin you ghastly man- hands off that little underdog Georgia. I say- I shall pout and mince and never speak to you again you beastly man, until you give it back to Auntie Royal Dutch Shell.
And shame on you Sir, for poisoning one of our spies of our Zioinist Semitic puppetmasters.
How ungentlemanly- Polonium in a tea-cup. What’s a gent to do- ask the help to make his tea in front of him. I say, this is the thin edge of the wedge.
Any chane Mr Putin is interested in a Porthampton Massage?”Nige:
Less Hyacinth, more Onslo or HM Phil the Greek- ho is rather funny. Before the Scots start pillaging your women too. -
Returning to the argument.
Islam predates Christianity in Indonesia, arriving around the earliest reckonings of Western scholars to modern Aceh and coastal trading ports of Sumatera and modern Malaysia around the 9th century CE- via Arabic and Gujarati Islamic traders.Jawi- the amalgam Javanese-Islamic script was commonly used for both religious and secular occasions.
The concept of Islam sweeping through Indonesia and Java is not entirely accurate. Demak and Fahatillah were shrewd enough to use religion as a means of uniting disparate groups against the Hindu Majapahit heirs.
The Majapahit saw, just like the Vikings did- why not have this new God on our side as well as our old ones and absorbed it- melding it with their own beliefs- animist, spirit worshipping and fertility sects- exactly as they had completely modified Tantric Hinduism.In any case- the pre-existence of Islam meant the Javanese, Batak and all other Christians would use the existing terms to describe the new concepts.
Roh Kudus
Esa
Allah yang maha esa
I Gusti
PangeranFurthermore:
The Journal of the Indian Archipelago and Eastern Asia
By James Richardson Logan
Published by Kraus Reprint, 1851
Item notes: ser.1 v.5 1851
Original from the University of Michigan
Digitized 3 Oct 2006, page 371argues Tuhan is one of those typical Indonesian conglomerate words.
Tuan- nobility title of Sumatra- which stands the archeological evidence of Islam originating from Sumatra
Tuah- old but in context venerable/wise
Tahuan- all-wise
becoming “Tuhan”.
Then in Maori langauges- we find the term atua- a remnant of palleo Javanese meaning ghost.
Then
In “Unsur-unsur bahasa Sanskerta dalam bahasa Indonesia “, By Mukunda Madhava Sharma
Published by Wy?sa Sanggraha, 1985
Original from the University of Michigan
Digitized 14 Mar 2007
107 pagesGod: “Tunggal, Esa, Mahaesa” are all described as all being of Sanskrit origins- Tunggal half of being the Javanese Kawi-Sanskrit “Cakra Tunggal”- the Sole Cakra: Lynchpin of the World
Setunggal is Kawi/modern Javanese prose for: “one, alone, sole, only a just like modern Indonesia “satu”Sang:
The Prose Javanese-Kawi word and prefix “sang” has a massive plethora of multiple names attached to it- which all can and do refer to God-Allah etc.
We Javanese love prose and florid language.
Javanese Catholics often use the term Sang Pangeran, Sang Hyang maha Esa, Sang Raja, Sang Maha Raja, Sang I Gusti, Sang Hyang Wiwhis Wasa (now in Balinese Sanghyang Widis Wasa(r))- the One God.Now Sang itself has enormous significance
Sangga- prop
Sangaji- king
sangadi- mulia- majestic
sanggar- temple/shrine
sanggah-
sanggama- lit coitus- but in actually more correctly prose meaning spiritual union
then sanga- nine- this has numeroligcal significance
hence Wali sanga not wali wolu or wali sepulohThe the Pre Javanese gods of Loro Blonyo; Dewi Sri (rice Goddess) and consort husband Sadono.
Some Javanese linguists suggest Sadono is from Sang Kedhaton- He (as opposed to he) of the PalacePre Hindu Javanese Gods:
And what of Sang Hyang Ismaya- represented as I Gusti Semar- more powerful than all Hindu Gods- even by some very kejawen Javanese as more powerful than Allah himself?(Pak Suharto termed himself Semar- did he really mean Sang Hyang Ismaya?- he was indeed all-powerful and Godly)
Sang Hyang Antabhoga and Sang Antarejo
Sang Dadhungawuk?
Sang Nyai Blorong
Sang Hyang Widhi Wasa
Sang Maha Esa Sura or Sang Lembu- the Demon buffalo kings?Wono di Hyang- Mountain of the Gods is the pre-hindu name of
So- summarily pre Hindu Javanese term for a God was the highest noble honourifics “Sang Hyang”.
Thus, Barry is self-proven to be utterly ignorant and full of his own sh*te.
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Barry Prima says:
Wow..who is acting like the public schooloboy swot now? I’ll see you in the showers after the rugger, teachers pet.
The amount of scholarly effort gone into the post, even if it is all googled, can be collectively evaluated as nothing but a b++g of sh*te.
My remarks about the origin of tuhan were admittedly a stab in the dark, you know sometimes you can get away with it.However your protracted efforts to prove me wrong,fall disappointingly short.Argues Tuhan is one of those typical Indonesian conglomerate words.
You only address the point I made marginally, thinking that hiding it behind a whole paragraph of non related matter, would make it somehow in depth and dare I say it scholarly.
Quoting some isolated 19th century references, even if they are only self acknowledged as arguments only, is hardly conclusive, or even any kind of proof.
Focusing on the maha esa part of the equation has no validity as an argument against my stab in the dark either. It only serves to prove that tuhan is very possibly of chinese origin, as it had to be qualified by something else in order to make it absolute.BY the way has the irony of the fact you had to quote :James Richardson Logan as your source lost on you?
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Sylvester says:
PN really spent hours to write long long arguments.
I only have one sentence: he is lunatic. Just ignore and let him die alone. -
kiwibali says:
PN really spent hours to write long long arguments.
I only have one sentence: he is lunatic. Just ignore and let him die alone.He might be a lunatic, but his argument so far has been no less than impressive! Keep it coming PN, your post added a new perspective on Indonesia for me.
PN you seems to be quite an educated and well-read fella, im interested in finding out more about Bali (in more particular its caste system and its pre-1900’s monarchies) and also more about the Majapahit empire, do you have any suggestions on what book is a good read in these subjects?C’mon Sylvester, its better to not comment rather than post such a childish reply to a well thought-out argument. Let him die alone? gees bit harsh isn’t it?
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timdog says:
Much as enjoy PN’s most caustic attacks and his flair for the art of the insult, his mega-posts do have a somewhat exhausting nature. They are suffused with the malodorous whiff of wikipedia.
I hold my hands up and confess to being utterly guilty of a tendency to mega-posts myself, but I can honestly assure you that any information I spill out in replies here is information that I have already consumed, digested, internalised and made my own…
Life is far, far to short to spend time researching your replies on a bloody internet forum for christsake…
For example, in my little thumbnail sketch of Surabaya history on my last post, I didn’t know the dates off the top of my head: I could have grabbed a book, or done a google search to check, but sod that for a game of soldiers; as I said, life’s too short – and I certainly feel more confident when I use information that I already “own”…That Googley stench undermines anything you might actually have to say. Until you’ve digested and contextulised your new bits of information (preferably not gleaned from wikipedia), it’s best not to use them…
Kiwibali – he’s highly entertaining, and has a fabulous effect on certain silly people, but hell, don’t ask him for a history lesson – too late! He’ll be off scouring google on the topic of Balinese caste even as we speak…
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Blame Credit Crunch
Slow work these days for civil engineers.
The work for Istaka Jaya took shorter than expected. That’s an impressive piece of earthquake-resistant engineering for those interested in the new Jakarta-Bandara Soekarno-Hatta Airport Tollway.Of course, Indonesian engineering expertise once again contemptuously urianting all over the hyped Nat Geo Mega-Sites (snigger) of Malaysia or Singapore (actually designed by Bules (commonly British), supervrvised by BRits/Kiwis or Aussies and built by Singapore’s slaves: Indians, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans, Malaysians, Indonesians, Vietanamese and mainland Chinese- Singapore’s fore-lock tuggers fetch coffee and makes copies for Whitey- Hokkien Chinese overtime is free if allowed the great honour of basking in the glorious radiance of Whitey. Browny want money wan lah!).
Actually- an interesting aside is that Indonesians seem to have exported their stubbornness and violent tendency to Fight for Rights to Singapore/Malaysia and spread like wildfire among the mainland Chinese (shocked and amused, then won over by using violence to attain rights), Vietnamese and Indians (finding angry Malays very amusing and fun to join in with)- so much so that there is often true pan-racial worker solidarity against Singaporean and Malaysian wage slavery/exploitation.
It’s Indonesians and Koreans that start the worker riots- holding even Malaysian police at bay for weeks.Sylvesters of the world pose effeminately like the foppish dandies they are, hoping for whitey’s green card out- commonly in Singapore’s Coffee Club or Jakarta’s Starbucks- practicing their MTV Singlish.
He forgets many of my generation who served went hungry for days – so his Sino insults are as totally humourously ineffectual as his attempt to use lateral thought.
Proof again we Indonesians are entirely capable where the will and money exists.
Otherwise we (self-dsestructively) can’t be effed.I will start my own blog.
Timdog finds googley repugnant as his computer is “infected” with pornware from “pornotorrentz” and “piratebay” type downloads- one hypothesises…?
PS- the data on Sang downward is my own knowledge- you can’t find this on Google.
Sycophantic awes very much appreciated.The very same kind bules keenly indulge in certain similar malls to Mangga Dua Mall etc- for not clearly legal status yet very affordable programmes- incuding those which may cost thousands of dollars retail- the same Western nations corporate johns spend millions having their Senator hos protect- Western knowledge apartheidism.
IP and copyright is a very interesting topic.
One of yet another of Bules’ love-hate relationships with Jakarta too.Source for a new Post- Pak Patung:
IP, Piracy and Corporate Bule hypocrisy vs Rakayt Bule and Bule ngDeso – every bit as shrewd, cunning and non-law abiding as mad dog Malays?Bapak Kiwi- loved your lovely New Zeland nation- head and shoulders ahead of Yobboland Ostraya- and they know it- hence their nasal jealousy.
The best book is still:
“History of Modern Indonesia Since C. 1300 By Merle Calvin Ricklefs [ISBN 0804721947]
I am pretty sure either Times, Kinokuniya or Gramedia stock it. If not try Amazon.And specifically on Balinese- an exhaustive fantastic book:
“The People of Bali”, By Angela Hobart, Urs Ramseyer, Albert Leemann [ISBN 0631227415]and another- very good:
“Perfect Order: Recognizing Complexity in Bali
By John Stephen Lansing [ISBN 0691027277]Slow day again…
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Terima kasih Bapak Purba Negoro, greatly appreciated.
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I will start my own blog.
Btw, if anyone would like to have their own blog hosted on indonesiamatters, – url would be htt*://somename.indonesiamatters.com/ – just let me know here or via the contact page, full publish/edit/delete Editor functionality, etc (only rule is – no porn). You could do it at wordpress or blogspot of course but the advantage of doing it here would be an instant audience and the likelihood that you’ll get plenty of Google lovin’ right from the start. And I’d be managing the backend.
Just putting that out there…as Achmad might say.
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Barry,
who’ll be the prop? I know you Brits are hard men yourselves and what was that again about ruggery buggery?
Let’s make up Porthampton style, and dine on pompey skate.
I should tell you tales of Ostraya’s very own Public school hijinjks:
“Two teenagers who admitted to using a wooden dildo made in Woodowrk class to sexually assault a fellow border at an exclusive Sydney school have been placed on a 12 month good bond…”Scotch and King’s College and their student made giant ahem brromsticks were also outed.
You’re only a queer if you like it Bazz said your Taunton finest.
Soggy biscuits anyone?Patung:
Yes please.
Purbanegoro.indonesiamatters.comBapak Kiwi:
Sami-sami. You might find Barry migrating as a Blair-Brown refugee soon.
I’ve met tens of Brits in Singapore heading there- women huddled, men with shell-shocked face, 1000 yard stare, stammering about hoodies to the left of them, yardies to the right, Somalis charging with cheap switch blades to the fore… -
Patung:
Yes please.
Purbanegoro.indonesiamatters.comOk, it’ll take a day or two to set up, hope that email address of yours works because I’ll need to send your login details.
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C’mon Sylvester, its better to not comment rather than post such a childish reply to a well thought-out argument. Let him die alone? gees bit harsh isn’t it?
You think racist comment is a well thought out? PN racist comment is not harsh?
C’mon Kiwibali. Don’t tell me you support PN.I still appreciate comments from people like Cuk and AAB although we have differences. Sometime it could be funny. But there is no fun in the racist, bigot comments.
Many discussions deteriorate when PN is active. And some people are dragged much deeper by PN’s provocation, which is not good. That’s why I urged people to ignore this lunatic. -
You think racist comment is a well thought out? PN racist comment is not harsh?
C’mon Kiwibali. Don’t tell me you support PN.Nope can’t say I support PN, but hey at least he based his view upon a well thought out research (even if the foundation of his research itself can be called controversial).
His racist comment are based on actions, past and present, of the ethnic Chinese. He then generalize these into all of the other ethnic Chinese.
I don’t agree with this, because I know personally know of ethnic Chinese (my best friend is ethnic chinese) that doesn’t fall into these generalization. But PN based his dislike towards the ethnic Chinese based on their past action, therefore basing his view upon, what can be said, objective foundation.A few months back, a fellow by the name DXP post, in my opinion, a much worse version of racism. He blatantly said that Indonesian are genetically inferior! That’s right he used the G word. Where was the uproar of racism back then? The only people who seems to be attacking the ‘excrement’ of this guy, seems to be just me and Rob. DXP didn’t have any independent and objective source to his view which make it even worse. If he even quote a book supporting his view, then I’ll read that book and do 24/7/30 research just to counter it. At least PN based his upon a well thought out research, not just some general stereotype, feeling based ‘excrement’.
I’ll listen to Hitler or Idi amin rational with passion if I have the chance, just to get a new perspective on life. It doesn’t mean I agree with them, but rather I like the exchange of ideas. By just saying “don’t listen to the guy, and let him die alone” beat the purpose of such. Please Sylvester if you disagree with PN, give him the debate of his life. Contradict his post with an objective and independent source of information. Indonesia matters is a brilliant site because of it.
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Andy says:
I agree with you wholeheartedly Sylvester but better we let Purba say what he believes as he is the voice of the Javanese people. He is the apple in their pie, the jingle on their roti cart, the egg on their nasi goreng, the loud speaker on their mosque. You know as well as I do how they smile their hearts out and greet us with glee while talking about us with sharpened knives while our backs are turned. No doubt when the day comes when I meet Purba he will tell me what a great friend I am and offer to buy me dinner and a soft drink. I feel refreshed by Purba’s comments as it allows us to see the true feeling of the javanese muslim. You know what they say-keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
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Timdog finds googley repugnant as his computer is “infected” with pornware from “pornotorrentz” and “piratebay” type downloads- one hypothesises…?
awww… I was hoping for a much better insult than that…
Disappointed… -
Timdog
would you be happier if I insinuate kiddy porn- or goat porn?Aha- a sadomasochist perhaps?
I know- a leatherman:
I think I have found Timdog’s personal site:Andy- where do we get this apple pie?
You may have as much drink as you like- maybe you try Javanese traditional spirit= brem and arak (also shared in Bali)?
Batak have many traditional drink they refuse to give up after converting to Islam (usually for corporate or political convenience).Most Javanese Muslim drink at least Bintang. My gardener- he is a Pak Haji from Surabaya- sells alcoholic jamu to motor cyclist (not so good for road safety or traffic) in his kaki lima not one hundred metres from the local Mosque.
East Java is famous for both the cane sugar and rum.Muslims CAN drink- the precaution is not to get as Aussie say “sh!tfaced” (?) or as drunk as mainland Chinese in an all-you-can drink buffet playing drinking games.
Wetting yourself as you sleep is never a good look.
Sylvester-
I have never stooped so low as to call Chinese genetically inferior- like DXP was essentially labelling we pribumi as a some jungle-ape n!gger.Much like the bule- Little Brown Fu@k Monkey
Gook
Jungle BunnySen. John McCain told reporters, “I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live.”
http://www.imdiversity.com/Villages/Asian/politics_law/ikeda_mccain_gook_1008.aspYou will read I crudely critique your horrible Hokkien culture and self-destructive Chinese behavioral habits.
If your dog bite you one times – does that mean he stop being your very best friend or maybe something you did to him, hurt him?
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I have no idea what happened to that last post- internet computer is haunted- pocong lagi.
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Much better!
I’ll take the goats if that’s ok with you… -
I am not totally agree with DXP. Saying all pribumis like that does not bring any good either .
However, PN racist comments are much more massive, fill almost all threats in IM.Patung, IM was better before this lunatic joined. We do not want the whole world see one racist mentally sick pribumi destroying an image of multicultured Indonesia.
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Janma,
Is it my English or your manner of writing style I don’t understand? Could you please clarify what you mean?
your english is fine poppet, it’s just that you don’t get me….
And I’d be managing the backend.
see patung, you might wanna think about that….. do you have a virtual shovel?
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Yes well, had a think about the sub-domain idea, might not work actually, it’ll have to be another way…and PN, you have really got to get off the anti-Chinese stuff on every damn thread, it is getting tedious.
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Oh, and on the topic, sort of, here are a couple of recent interesting things –
http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/10/uyghurs-chinese-muslims-etc.php
ramadan-crackdown-the-use-of-terminology-chinese-muslim-vs-uiygar-vs-hui-vs-han-muslim
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Great links Patung – thanks… and I direct Barry Prima in their direction when he deigns to step out of his own “Javanese enough” shadow and return here…
I would though – purely based on subjective and unscientific personal observations – kick against the assertion of the writer of the first piece that while Uyghers are likely to be “practicing Muslims”, Hui may often not be.
I once spent Ramadan in Xinjiang. While of course, many people were fasting, it was having less of an impact on the local Muslim population than in various other Muslim countries I have been in during Ramadan – including Indonesia, surprisingly enough. Lunchtime cafes were full – of Uyghers.
Then at the end of the month I slipped across the eastern border, and in Xining in Qinghai I saw the biggest single Muslim gathering I have ever come across – thousands upon thousands upon thousands of Hui Muslims at prayer…Interestingly enough, the Uygers in Xinjiang (and the other non-Chinese Muslims in that state, including Kirgyz, Tajiks, Uzbeks and Kazakhs) find their religious practice more curtailed that the “Chinese” Muslims in other parts of the country. A simple example: in Xinjiang there is a ban on electronic amplification of adzan (very civilised if you ask me, though as imposed on a minority by a Chinese central authority it might be less admirable); among the Hui in other parts of the country there is no such ban, and you’ll still be roused from your sleep in the early hours of the morning…
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yeah, that’ll be me Patung… can’t spell my own name for christsake…
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Slyvester:
Do not be naive as to think the people, who run this forum actually have any interest in preserving a positive image of Indonesia. Isnt that self evident?
The white man has no problem in allowing the Javanese peasant to exercise his natural inclination to run amock (even if only in cyber space) In the process he is doing us a favour by destroying himself.
He will realise eventually the folly of actually trying to beat the white man,and especially the Englishman, at his own game and come back to the superstitious mumbo jumbo that passes for Kejawen.
Purbo i predict will pass his final days repeating over and over the name of Allah,Roro KIdul,Gusti Alah and dare i say it Tuhan yang mah esa, whilst throwing stones at an imaginary object in the middle of the room, pleading for forgiveness for a misspent youth in the whorehouses of Surabaya during his military days under the young Suharto regime.
He will run out of steam, soon enough, let the good servant carry out his course.
Comment on “Chinese Muslims”.
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A mosque in a Ruko.
How perfectly garing and utterly appropriate for Chinese.
They can worship Fortuna, Mammon and Plutus from the comfort of their Cellphone store, Internet Kiosk or Circle K.
Reminds me of Christ and the Temple Money Changers episode.
Despite the links poor English- the argument remains valid.
There are approximately 10 million Chinese (illegally dwelling (squatting) in Indonesia.
There are less than at very most optimistic and positive estimate less than 50,000 Chinese Muslims- which is less than 0.5% of total Chinese population.
Given that Chinese routinely dig up the old hoary chestnut of having dwelt here since the dawn of time, when Zheng He, on his 1000 foot treasure fleet of (magically defying the laws of physics in the manner of a typical crap Chinese film- like Crouching Dragons, Flying Tigers, in a House of Daggers or whatever nonsense [compare to Opera Jawa and weep etars over wasted hours of your life killing your braincells willingly by viewing a Chinese “film”])
Zheng: a Hamafi eunuch somehow spread his seed far and wide, along with his crew of majority eunuch sailors, spreading their brand of Hamafi Islam, and seed, despite being totally unintelligible to the natives and not a shred of evidence left aside from a rumour about Demak.
Now- considering their allegedly long time here- uninvited and unrequested of course- they claim to have assimilated by a uge 0.5% of their population adopting the majority religion of the nation?
Despite the dutch immigration records clearly detailing they were willingly imported during Cultivation:
from the US government’s Country Studies website:
“between 1870 and 1930, the Chinese population expanded from around 250,000 to 1,250,000”
Then another unrequested flood of squatters when they ran from Mao’s victory.
Mao of course wanted traitors and money-lusters to be punished.
This is Wu Shu Bu Sheet. Koh Cukong Li Cik Tipu Gua at his Hai Lai (a restaurant actually a front for a multi-storey brothel, gambling den and drugs lab) lies, yet again.
Now, I know one of Juanda’s daughter very well- she lives in Jakarta, married to a government bureaucrat. She is an eminent psychologist. She gets routinely mistaken for being Chinese- as she is very Sundanese in appearance and hates it.
Surabaya’s airport is named after the only prime minister Indonesia had- Juanda- which is rather odd considering he is Sundanese.
Her son is a pejabat too- and he is routinely mistaken as Chinese by Chinese and he totally hates it with a passion.
His grandson is married to Sukarjo’s daughter and Juanda was also very good friends with Sukarjo- whose full military honours burial I just attended this past Saturday at Kalibata.
Brig Jen Pak de Sukarjo was former head of Jarta Police and Head of Narcotics, Bintang Guerilla and Bintang Pahlawan.
I knew him very very well- he as one of father’s dear friends from Jember.
He had stories after stories of how the Chinese helped the Dutch, how the Chinese ran the drugs, how the Chinese tried to kill him several times, how the Chinese shot at him in Surabaya- fighting the Dutch and British.
From true Revolutionary heroes Janma- I know for a fact not one Chinese was involved in the glorious Revolution. Not even from those who tried to reconcile with these hated traitors, like Juanda under Sukarno.
Juanda spoke ruefully of how Chinese were once a traitor- always a traitor.
The Rakyat know- Chinese are licik par none other.
Remember the Slipi Chinese scandal involving fake Oxford and Harvard degrees?
Aren’t Chinese famed for being able for their incredibly accurate forgeries of Chinese art and ceramics?
Where are al those knock-off Rolex’s, Louis Vuitton’s and Prada’s etc from as sold by Chinese in Mangga Dua and Taman Anggrek? China and Hong Kong?
See- proof again the Chinese can fake or print anything and even the alleged experts can’t spot the fake under their noses.
Plenty of idiotic Western academics and museums have been the duped fool of Chinese forgery- here they are again.
WE Javanese are far too wise to think the hyena can ever changes its’ cackle.