FGM
Mar 3rd, 2008, in News, by PatungForeign efforts to eradicate female genital mutilation.
United Nations
On February 27th ten United Nations agencies pledged to engage in a renewed effort to eliminate female genital mutilation (FGM), or female circumcision, within a generation.
UN Deputy Secretary General Asha-Rose Migiro said:
If we can come together for a sustained push, female genital mutilation can vanish within a generation.
In Indonesia only the populist press seemed to take an interest in the story with a Surya headline screaming “The United Nations Bans Female Circumcision”: xinhuanet
MUI
Prof Dr Chuzaimah T Yanggo, the head of the Youth and Women’s section of the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), said of the United Nations:
What do they think they’re doing, it’s not their business. Religion cannot be interfered with by men.
He She said the Health Department had already agreed with the MUI that there was a right way, and several wrong ways, to carry out “khitan”. The right way was to “open” the “upper part”, the clitoris, a little, by making a small cut, while the wrong ways involved cutting off the whole organ or making substantial cuts, and these were forbidden.
Chuzaimah said the UN was confused about circumcision because it heard stories from Africa, where the practice was more extreme.
Java
Meanwhile the East Java secretary of the MUI, Prof Dr Hj Istibjaroh, said female circumcision was neither required nor forbidden but:
In general it is done.
The purpose was to reduce the sex drive of women, he said, while the purpose of male circumcision was to increase sex drive.
He said among the women’s wing of the Nahdlatul Ulama, the Muslimat NU, female circumcision was something thought not worth debating.
Endang Sri of the Indonesian Midwives Association (Ikatan Bidan Indonesia (IBI)) in Surabaya, East Java, said however that the practice was not allowed.
When parents requested it the IBI simply performed a washing of the area. She said requests to have girls circumcised in Surabaya were rare these days, and came mainly from the northern part of the city, presumably from ethnic Madurese people. surya
446 Comments on “FGM”
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Any mutilation on part of the body is not written in the Qur’an, including men circumcision. Find it here
The purpose was to reduce the sex drive of women, he said, while the purpose of male circumcision was to increase sex drive.
This women definetely doesn’t have enough sex experiences, let alone a good one, to speak about sex drive. People in MUI talking about sex drive? What a laugh.
IF this were practised largely in Indonesia, I will start giving courses on where to find G-spot, mass produce dildos that can find G-spots. Increase men’s sex drive? Pasak bumi. Testosterone shots. Guarantee blisters from 30 hours of aerobic bed exercise.
Reduce women sex drive? Tell the men to grow beard and never wash it, and wear pink underwear. THAT would be a major turn off already without mutilation.
Yeah, Pink Underwears and Pink Thongs should be a moslem men’s uniform.
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Murphy says:
You see, there are pro-life people, there are pro-choice ones. There are religious people, there are atheist ones. There are capitalists, there are socialists.
And now there are another pair of camps: the pro-foreskins and the anti-foreskins.
Fine with me, too. Everyone is entitled to their political opinion.
I just don’t understand why this subject is worth wasting the earth precious oxygen.
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I see, unable to answer facts, Murphy now (on his fourth post) tells us the subject is not worth considering.
Here are some other “camps” with their “political opinions”:
* pro-slavery and anti-slavery
* pro-footbinding and anti-footbinding
* pro-castration and anti-castration
* pro-suttee and anti-suttee (widow “suicide”)
Sure, genital cutting isn’t as important as slavery or suttee or castration, but it’s very similar to footbinding (Chinese men of a certain caste considered the bound foot to be highly erotic).
The point is, they are all human rights issues, but those battles are all but won.
And if “the subject is not worth wasting the earth’s precious oxygen” (which wasn’t in short supply, the last time I breathed in), why do it? -
How do I know it’s harmless? As of today, about 150 million Indonesians f*ck each other every night and I am yet to hear news about nation-wide health and sexual issues due to male or female circumcision (Indonesian style, not the African one). I didn’t mention that because I thought that should be very obvious .
I “met” few Indonesian women who said that they were circumcised and found that their clitoris AND the hood were still there. And there’s no way to tell how much of the hood was cut because you just can’t tell and they just don’t care. I think you can cross-check that fact with the Blok-M-frequenting folks here.
The examples that you quoted are clear cases. It’s hard to find one with right mind in the internet that advocates for slavery, foot binding, suicide, castration, or in our case removing the clitoris, African-style. If you want to debate those subjects, cyberspace is not the right place. You should bring your case in the house of tribal chief in some remote islands where “civilisation” is yet to come.
And for the record: I’m not advocating for removal of foreskin. I will not present the benefit of circumcision if that’s what you’re looking for. I just don’t care and I’m defending my right to not care 🙂
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Sorry but what Murphy has yet to hear about could fill lots of books. Just because something still works, after a fashion, doesn’t mean it hasn’t been harmed.
It sounds as though Indonesian-style hood-nicking does much less harm than most other practices, but it’s still painful and terrifying and unnecessary and a violation of human rights.
I don’t of course want to debate slavery etc, and I never said I did. There is general agreement that they are human rights violations, and it’s about time genital cutting, ALL genital cutting, joined the list.
Murphy has defended his right not to care for five messages now. That’s very busy not-caring. Wonder how many he’d post if he DID care….?
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Cukurungan says:
I don’t of course want to debate slavery etc, and I never said I did. There is general agreement that they are human rights violations, and it’s about time genital cutting, ALL genital cutting, joined the list.
Murphy has defended his right not to care for five messages now. That’s very busy not-caring. Wonder how many he’d post if he DID care”¦.?
It is great if you really care about the genital cutting issue in here why you do not join Mr Bas and Bu Janma to conduct assessment on the pussy damage caused by circumcision as my previous post.
After that you can arrange the Indonesia Pussy Rehabilitation program and as our grateful I would recommend you to be nominated as Nobel Price Winner for special program of the Indonesia Pussy Revival
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Basically Cuk, because I don’t share your contempt for women.
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Matt says:
Hehehe…..
I can only says this: Another fine example of human beings trying to play “God”… And that is not targeted at any particular religion…
As I see it: Religious is a human interpretation of divinity. Therefore, it is subjected to human error. The so-called ‘right’ religions are those who make the loudest ‘noise’. So if someone comes around and says “This is right, or that is wrong”, I hope people shouldn’t just take it without ever pause to consider it logically. Directly addressing the issue of FGM, it is my thought that the word “mutilation” have already explain itself quite clearly… (For those who doesn’t understand… please check it out with any dictionary)
I confess to be an atheist, but I do respect individual’s right to have their own faith, provided it is a personal relationship with their chosen god.
Good days to all…
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
No religious issue is complete without consulting the wisdom of Pak Aluang.
On this pussy thingy, Sheikh Cuk is more accurate. I have to agree with him that Indonesia Muslims do not have cases of pussy damages. Unlike overseas Muslims who ‘stupidly’ cut away the clitoris to satisfy Islamic requirement, female circumcision here is done by scrapping of the foreskin.
Don’t compare us with smelly African Muslims or Curry or Kebab Eater Muslims; just because they are stupid doesn’t mean we are stupid.
Case closed.
Salam.
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Msarifi says:
What stupid comments… LOL … we have an entire group of pussy specialists here … and none with a pussy either. 🙂 Get a life guys … or should I say … get a pussy!
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Mas Aluang,
We don’t need to close the case immediately because we aren’t the same and a human with the lesser brain size need more time to learn than the normal size one.
salam,
Cheer Man -
Bas says:
“The muslim and the non-muslim pussy almost couldn’t be differentiate in its appearance but the smell of thr non-muslim pussy are much stronger than the muslim pussy because the muslim pussy always regularly get clean-up at least 5time a day whereas the non-muslim pussy don’t get wash even after she urinate.”
Nonsense. On a daily base. Non Muslims and Muslims pussies get exactly the same – bad – treatment based on infected water washing. And they catch so many deceases. No discrimination here.
Have you never read “Kering itu bersih” on toilets doors in Malls for example? “Dry is clean”. That’s true for pussies.My recommendation to Indonesian women who need a cleaner pussy is to use their own tissues. Not the contaminated stagnant water they find in Indonesian toilets “ember”.
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Janma says:
Murphy, I know you don’t care, but I would like to see how you feel when you watch a newborn baby girl have her little bits scraped with a sharp needle. It does hurt. Just look at the girls faces in the photo’s in this article and then tell me ‘no harm done’!
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Riyoz says:
Women and childen are getting murdered by the hundreds in Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq….and the UN is wasting time and money on khitan !!!!!…….please !!!
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Mbak Janma,
Then you must attend a sunatan massal festival at the kampung near you. I can assure you, it’s a once in a lifetime experience. Worth every ounce of the Visit Indonesia Year 2008 hype.
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Oigal says:
Women and childen are getting murdered by the hundreds in Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq
I concur, there must be a way to stop the Muslim brothers from blowing another up.
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Riyoz, there are many evils in the world, and just because some are worse than others doesn’t mean we have to give ALL our attention to the worst.
Murphy seems to enjoy others’ pain. And he doesn’t seem to be the only one.
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Riyoz, there are many evils in the world, and just because some are worse than others doesn’t mean we have to give ALL our attention to the worst.Murphy seems to enjoy others’ pain. And he doesn’t seem to be the only one.
Ok let give our attention to below :
CDC Issues New Estimate for Number of Deaths Caused by Obesity
________________________________________Food Insight
NewsBite
May/June 2005Researchers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a new estimate of the number of deaths caused by obesity. This estimate was published in an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA 2005;293(15):1861-1867). The new estimate is 112,000 deaths per year which is significantly lower than a previous estimate of 365,000 deaths per year.
Because the food caused much more death to American than Al-Qaida let ban the Kid for eating the food. Do we need to say so?
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“I concur, there must be a way to stop the Muslim brothers from blowing another up.”
Hmm…I didn’t know the Israeli Army, The Israel Air Force or The US Army drafted Muslim brothers ?…..;D..wake up, man !
“Riyoz, there are many evils in the world, and just because some are worse than others doesn’t mean we have to give ALL our attention to the worst.”
I agree, but the question here is…have we ? have we give ALL our attention to the worst attrocities ? better yet, have give ALL our efforts to STOP IT ?…..
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If that’s some kind of argument by analogy, perhaps you could explain it. Or is it a distraction to cover a lack of an argument?
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Hmm”¦I didn’t know the Israeli Army, The Israel Air Force or The US Army drafted Muslim brothers ?”¦..;D..wake up, man !
Not withstanding the rights and wrongs of eithier groups, tribes, gatherings, mobs..
Seems to me that a quick (and tragic) count would show many many more (By a factor of x)Muslim brothers and sisters have been blown up, murdered, slaughted by their (so-called) own..than by anyone else.
Perhaps you and I get our information from different places (or worse ignore the bits that don’t fit with our twisted little narratives)
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“Not withstanding the rights and wrongs of eithier groups, tribes, gatherings, mobs..
Seems to me that a quick (and tragic) count would show many many more (By a factor of x)Muslim brothers and sisters have been blown up, murdered, slaughted by their (so-called) own..than by anyone else.
Perhaps you and I get our information from different places (or worse ignore the bits that don’t fit with our twisted little narratives)”
‘more…..than by anyone else’….I wonder…..do you have any ‘quick count’ to show how many Christian brothers and sisters killed by their so-called own ? better yet, quick counts for other religious and non-religious groups that have been killed by their own, aswell….
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Sad says:
I am a 32 yr old Indonesian woman. I had FGM performed on me when I was a baby. I come from a very religious Muslim family but thank God I am not a Muslim anymore. FGM is endorsed by that religion (there are hadiths to suppert FGM) and it is a cruel way to further torture and degrade women. Nothing good can come from FGM and what endorses it.
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Oigal Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Women and childen are getting murdered by the hundreds in Palestine, Afghanistan and IraqI concur, there must be a way to stop the Muslim brothers from blowing another up.
Christians murdering Muslims, the Christians go to hell. Muslim brothers blowing up each other, we are following Allah’s instruction and we all go to heaven with 70 plus virgins waiting for us.
Why do you filthy kaffir care if we blow ourselves up?
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we are following Allah’s instruction and we all go to heaven with 70 plus virgins waiting for us.
Wouldn’t it be easier just to get a girl friend here? Or course that would mean you may actually have to talk to a female other than your mother. By the way, I heard a rumour that the 70 odd virgins (and what did they do wrong to deserve the demented) were actually catholic nuns?
Why do you filthy kaffir care if we blow ourselves up? Eer who does, just the innocent bystanders
‘more”¦..than by anyone else'”¦.I wonder”¦..do you have any ‘quick count’ to show how many Christian brothers and sisters killed by their so-called own ? better yet, quick counts for other religious and non-religious groups that have been killed by their own, aswell”¦.
Weak Rizzo ..very weak indeed
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Pak Oigal,
Let me help your aging brain to retrieve the history ….50 millions Christian killed by their own in WW 1&2
and more than 3 millions killed during France and Germany Christian War…remember it happened even after 1900 years birthdays of Jesus while Islam until today has not yet reach 1500 years after Birth of Islam Prophet.So the conclusion that the reputation of the Evil in the Islamic World’s is not yet even close to the Evil Christianity.
Is that still weak Sir?
Regard,
Cheer Man -
Riyoz says:
“Weak Rizzo ..very weak indeed”
whatever…just state the requested numbers, please….hehehehe…remember it’s for all religious and non-religious groups…:)…you may aswell state the overall crime rates in your own country…..
“Let me help your aging brain to retrieve the history “¦.50 millions Christian killed by their own in WW 1&2 and more than 3 millions killed during France and Germany Christian War”¦remember it happened even after 1900 years birthdays of Jesus while Islam until today has not yet reach 1500 years after Birth of Islam Prophet.”
ah..yes”¦those sad, sad history”¦..pretty sad isn’t it”¦.
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“I come from a very religious Muslim family but thank God I am not a Muslim anymore.”
Well, we’ll miss you and don’t forget to write….
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Purba Negoro says:
The ignorant comments that lump us cultured Indonesians in with the peasants of Arabia highlight the ignorance of the West.
Most likely the hookers the whites either sleep with or marry are Muslim and have been Sunat (circumcised) too.
Sunat literally means “obeying the Suna or Holy Law”.Now as a Javanese- I proudly can tell you my daughter was sunat- in Central Java this means a Imam cutting a bay leaf in a purely symbolic Hindu era ceremony. She has all of her equipment.
Of course, far more informed than blustery bule is the UN World Health Organisation which determines there are four types of Female Genital Cutting.
Type I
Removal or splitting of the clitoral hood, termed “hoodectomy” (or “clitorodotomy”), with or without excision of the clitoris, see Diagram 1B.
The clitoral hood is identical/homologous to the penile foreskin.In the West it is quite a common gynaecological procedure for women with labial problems and sexual issues.
The circumcision of the clitoris allows the woman to be far more sexually responsive as her organ is more exposed.
Anyone with an Indonesian wife can vouch for this fact. It also explains our enormous population.
Rathman (1959) also indicates: “87.5 % had superior sexual experiences post-operative” and the procedure takes only ten days to heal.Type 1 is actually also a Hindu tradition and I am informed by an Indian colleague that it is considered normal procedure for practice for female infants with genital malformations.
Unlike the West- we do not blindly beleive the shrill unsbstantiated rhetoric of the feminists’ subjective and ill-reasoned view that all things female are inherently beautiful and pure.
The reality is malformations and clinical problems must be rectified via surgery.Type II
“excision of the clitoris with partial or total excision of the labia minora.”[, called khafd, meaning reduction in Arabic. According to an Iraqi doctor- this is a rare procedure performed on female infants with hormonal androgenic problems.Type III: “pharaonic circumcision.” excision of part or all of the external genitalia and stitching/narrowing of the vaginal opening (infibulation).
This is prevalent ONLY to Affrica and parts of similarly barbarous Middle East.Type IV: Other types
This includes a diverse range of practices, including pricking the clitoris with needles, burning or scarring the genitals as well as ripping or tearing of the vagina or introducing herbs into the vagina to cause bleeding and a narrowed vaginal opening.According to a US governmental report on Female Genital Mutilation in Indonesia:
97/100 Kemayoran mothers had their girls. Trained midwives or physicians circumcised the baby girls using a blood lancet or sewing needle to prick the clitoris until bleeding occurred. However, some midwives merely wiped the clitoris with alcohol and bethadine. This procedure took place when the girl was 40 days to five years old.IN West Java 100/100 claimed their female children had been circumcised. Traditional birth attendants… cut a small piece of the prepuce (clitoral hood) or the clitoris itself until bleeding occurred. This procedure was performed when the baby was about 40 days old.
In Banten: … t is largely a symbolic procedure. The practice is ceremonial, during which the clitoris of the baby or young girl is scraped or touched, often with the purpose of drawing several drops of blood. Sometimes a plant root is used symbolically and the girl is not touched at all.
These procedures usually take place within the first year, often on day 36 or 40 after birth, depending on local traditions…
(http://www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/rep/crfgm/10102.htm)Thus our Adat-or customary laws validate and vindicate our practices- even according to ultra-feminist USA.
Do not ever mistake Indonesian female circumcision for the savagery of the African.
We are nothing alike in any facet.
Comment on “FGM”.
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I didn’t say “many so often” I said “every so often”. Murphy’s analogy (instead of answering what I did say) is just silly because:
* Murphy assumes with no proof that tattooing and piercing are harmless, but in fact HIV can be transmitted by tattooing, and probably other diseases as well.
* We don’t usually do those to unwilling children or non-consenting babies (tattooing??) and those we do, are also human rights violations, but I don’t have time to campaign against them myself. Feel free. However,
* Most piercings will close up again if someone decides they don’t want them. The foreskin and the clitoral prepuce do not grow back (without a lot of help in the case of the male foreskin, I don’t know about the other one).
* Murphy’s rough cut-and-paste of my last sentence makes a whole lot less sense. How can an absence have either a purpose or a function? (“Nearly so much” refers back to my previous sentence, which Murphy doesn’t quote and doesn’t answer.)
Now where were we? I asked how Murphy knows that clitoral hood cutting and foreskin removal are “harmless” and gave examples where they are not.