Anti-Chinese Violence
Feb 6th, 2007, in News, by PatungAnti-Chinese feeling in Indonesia, 1996-1999.
Jemma Purdey, in Anti-Chinese Violence in Indonesia, 1996-1999, suggests that the anti-Chinese violence which periodically occurred prior to May 1998 had its origins in the policy of the Suharto government of marginalising the ethnic Chinese population, restricting them to certain, mainly business, roles, and portraying them as uncaring and corrupt.
Frustrated and poor “native” Indonesians who might be expected to take out their anger on government officials instead were diverted by the government into venting those frustrations on the Chinese. So, for the Suharto regime, the Chinese were a convenient scapegoat, and a provided an important safety valve for the expression of the people’s passions, and allowed mob violence to be directed at targets other than the regime. Normally violence against Chinese was directed largely against their property, rather than their persons. (see Pogroms in East Java 1965-66 for a couple of examples.)
Anti-Chinese Violence in Indonesia, 1996-1999.
The riots which occurred in Jakarta in May of 1998 however were of a different nature, says Purdey. They seemed to have been organised, with military-like precision, rather than spontaneous displays of rebellion, and involved the use of rape against Chinese women, although the numbers of victims is disputed.
Purdey points out however that it is only a minority of the indigenous population which is given to participating in mob violence against ethnic Chinese. eurekastreet
288 Comments on “Anti-Chinese Violence”
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Purba Negoro says:
“Continue to stay in Indonesia and do business as usual, hoping to reap profit from this rich nation, so we can retire safely out of Indonesia. After all, this is a country that do not welcome us.”
So you,as a Chinese, by your own words, you fully agree Chinese are generally hostile non assimilating opportunistic economically motivated parasites.
So if you’re not welcome- why are you still here?
Are you mentally incapable or just can’t take a hint?Sorry- you did say: “to reap profit from this nation so we can retire out of Indonesia”
SO MY ARGUMENT IS PROVEN NOT RACIST BUT QUALIFIED AND SUBSTANTIATED STATEMENT OF FACT AS FREELY ADMITTED BY A CHINESE.
Skah mat, Pak Tipugue Nakal.
PROOF OF CHINESE CONTEMPT FOR MAJORITY RULE AND LAW:
“There are hardly any way[s] to obey the law completely…[implication: admission of lack of interest/application] If you really think that WE SHOULD obey the law, WHY is it always YOUR law[?]”[pause for audience laughter here]
It’s called majority rule. Every nation on the planet has such a system of government- even the Han of Communist China. Imagine the riots if the Wu, Manchu or even Uighur solely ruled.
Minority rule is what the Chinese enjoyed and fondly (wistfully, with misty eyes) remember under their Colonial Master Uncle Koh and Encik Dutchman- APARTHEIDHence your physical projections of nostalgic Tempoh Doeloe in your colonial revivalist McMansions in Lippo karawaci, Kelapa Gading, Sampurna Plaza, Gudang Garam adversts, etc.
Chinese mindset:
“Oh, Halcyon Days… when Muddy Pan just served drinks and never spoke out of turn…sigh…
Oh, Tiqo help nowadays is so uppity and disrespectful, isn’t my darling Peranakan Sia Princess Madame Agnes-Nathasia Marcia-Anastasia-Fantasia-Deliciosa-Ponderosa-Treblinka?
SRI! lick my sandals with a smile! Bambang- wash the car! SIRUN! I said RED ROSES! Not CRIMSON! You Malay so stupid wan lah! Aiyah, Tiqo pok gai…”CHINESE CONDITIONAL LAW ABIDING STATUS DICTATED BY MINORITY GUEST :
“If you really THINK [note: a challenge] that you can impose a law [note: implication of inability], then make sure it is usable [note: implication of stupidity] and instead of attacking the minority [note: accusatory], will protect them from harm IF WE OBEY it[condition]”In other words- unless we the self admittedly hostile minority are favoured by unrepresentative unfair Sino-advantageous legal protection- we Chinese outright refuse to obey the Law.
Cheeky beggars, aren’t they.
Sorry- cheeky beggars cannot be cheeky choosers, cheeky Chinese.
You all need a good spank. A few cheeky ceples and cetot for such cheeky Chinese cheeks.Chinese make up approx 3% of the population of 235 million. There are % more Madurese than Chinese- thus it would be more proportionately representation to favour Madurese people over this trivial over-privileged, overweening, demanding and admittedly criminal alien 3% minority.
Or does that logic and justice not favour Chinese mindset of DEMANDING favourable treatment in someone else’s homeland?
The Chinese Ultimatum:
“The more you suppress us, the higher our survival sill will be, and everyday, we will be better.”Better? Parasites? Criminals? Demanders? Cheeky beggars?
I’ll be kind and assume cheeky albeit criminal importer-exporter sole-agent businessmen.Since you offer the challenge- we accept- in your best interests of course. Let’s put your theory to the test.
You can’t cry unfair this time- you specifically asked for it and this is tough love.
We good Muslims want you to be “better” too.Chinese insult and justification of poor guest behaviour:
“If you think that we are exclusive because we speak our own language to each other, then it is very pathetic of you because you feel so, since you only speak Indonesian. I live in Medan, where many Batak people speak their own language to each other in the presence of other race, but let me ask you, why people always protest that we, Chinese Indonesian, have no sense of nationalism? But never protest that the Batak speak their own language?”Batak are Indigenus
Batak are 25%+ of the population- the second most populous ethnicity.
If they speak Batak and Indonesian- then they are by definition BILINGUAL.
Batak is a separate language with its’ own unique and very beautiful alphabet- not a dialect of Indonesian nor even related to my own mother tongue yang sanget Luhure: Boso Jowo.
You see- I am tri-lingual.Sumatera is Batak HOMELAND
Bataks welcomed Indonesian independence in 1945
Batak are PROVEN heroic fighters for Nationalist cause
Batak are INDIGENOUS
Batak are very friendly with the dominant ethnicity: we Javanese and vice versa
Batak, even the very poorest, have strong Christian charity ethic.
Batak did not widely collaborate with Dutch
Batak enforced strict justice on their own Batak traitors
Batak were also enslaved by Chinese for working in plantations on their own HOME SOIL
Batak respect the State and its Laws
Batak have educated and healed the nation
Batak do not clearfell forests for Palm Oil
Batak do not make up pathetic two-faced lies to whiteyChinese?
Completely the opposite- as you admit.Medan has always been a pirates’ and smugglers’ den- home for Hokkien criminality between the historic crime triangle: Kucing, Penang, Medan and now Singapore.
Medan was also the base for 1955-57 US funded separatist movement with many Chinese followers.
Bataks bravely fought their own kind for Nationalist cause again- proving beyond question their trustworthiness and patriotism on a level to we Javanese- so Batak [good people] get rewarded.
Bad people get punished.SELF ADMITTED HOSTILE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNISTIC PARASITES WITH NO INTENTION OF ASSIMILATING OR SERVING THE NATION
This Indonesia now is your Syukurin- learn to love it.
Or leave.We provably do far better without you- our macroeconomy has not been in better shape for a long time. The consumer sector will follow shortly as currently being rationalised into majority pribumi ownership in the face of huge numbers of CHinese bankruptcies.
FORTIS the global Swiss investment bank agrees.
And fully solvent- no facade loans to shaky Chinese banks and bankruptors.Sugeng Tindak. Horas. Zai jian.
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Well said indeed.
Even if we are not welcomed, we will still stay here if we can. Some will go away, but some, will stay, not because that we are incapable (some of us do), but because we want to give back.
Sorry- you did say: “to reap profit from this nation so we can retire out of Indonesia”
SO MY ARGUMENT IS PROVEN NOT RACIST BUT QUALIFIED AND SUBSTANTIATED STATEMENT OF FACT AS FREELY ADMITTED BY A CHINESE.
As I said before, those are choices that we can take, but not necessarily will be the path that we must take. You javanese have choice to slaughter chinese, but I cannot say that you are slaughterer because the fact that you do not choose to take that path.
In other words- unless we the self admittedly hostile minority are favoured by unrepresentative unfair Sino-advantageous legal protection- we Chinese outright refuse to obey the Law.
I have to say that human have right to survive. How a person survive varies, but you cannot say that the whole chinese community do the bad things.
Or does that logic and justice not favour Chinese mindset of DEMANDING favourable treatment in someone else’s homeland?
If you cannot get out of this mindset, discussion will end nowhere. Notice that your so called pribumi status is even questioned. This homeland is irrelevant when you pull the time back far enough.
You can’t cry unfair this time- you specifically asked for it and this is tough love.
We good Muslims want you to be “better” too.It is because your type of thinking that the world is filled with sorrow. The kind of people who do not value what is beyond life, who kill babies and rape women mercilessly, and may I say the kind of thinking that also bring shame to the Muslim community. I am astounded that you bring Muslim name to represent your ideology.
Bad people get punished.
What a judgment. Do you think that you are good enough as a person? I am asking you as a person, not as a race. Notice the difference in this whole conversation. I am attacking your idea, not your race, but notice one thing, you are judging the whole race, a kind of racist ideology. You have a thinking that one bad thing will spoil the whole community.
I love the expansiveness of your knowledge. I have to “angkat topi” to how you defend your idea and attack the flaws in my idea. You are clearly above my calibre, but I truly beg you to see the bigger picture, and if you are really a godly man (as you stated, good Muslim), see beyond racism and prejudice. No single man can vanquish these issues, but I believe each of us can do something to make the world we live in better everyday.
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Re good or bad:
I quote Sukarno, who paraphrased Gandhi:
“First I am an Indonesian Nationalist, then [yes] I am a Muslim”
Nationalism outclasses mere good or bad.
It eclipses even the selfish construct of religion- total patriotism to Majapahit: State above God.Humans do have the right to survive and Chinese are humans equal no more nor less than to any Pribumi.
Inarguably.Yet Rights are a Privilege which entail Responsibility. Chiefly to not infringe on others’ Rights in the pursuit of ones’ own.
When ones’ rights or more often self-interests are pursued to the detriment of others’ this creates inequality, an injustice- a wrong.
The privilege of rights in Indonesia entails responsibility to the common good- achieved by most by being a generally law-abiding citizen.
It is actions, NOT race that cause the problems.
If the Chinese community truly wish to reconcile- they have to admit their Community’s wrongs too- and not seek rights nor privilege above or to the detriment of others’, nor continually blame or disrespect their generally accommodating, occasionally frustrating, yet very forgiving host.PS Flattery will get you nowhere. Vain Pak Raden and his kumis twirling are long gone.
The wise yet kampungan Pandawan Semar rules.
Glad you’re a good citizen.Sugeng Rahwu, Mas. Monggo ya…
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dragonwall says:
Oh ya PN did you know that HI was bombed? Who was that who did that? The Chinese? I am sure you like that right.
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Protus Tanuhandaru says:
Then I have nothing to say further, as PN turns out to be a bigot. If we can’t work to resolve the matters, then why would bother talking to someone like him? PN… you can say all what you like, but to be honest, what you have said and done is counter-productive. Your responses are just full of hatred, the same shown by Hitler and Budi Oetomo.
And to be honest, I’m not interested in identity issues at all. What I’m interested in are how to deal with global warming and how to alleviate poverty. But knowing there are a lot of us still having problem with conflicts in identity, I spent some of my time trying to understand its dynamism.
I have worked in my entire life as a journalist, humanitarian volunteer in Aceh, an activist, a writer, all professions not even close to a business person, the stereotype once associated with being a Chinese. Now I intend to become an anthropologist to understand diversity in Indonesia (Indonesia has more than 1,000 ethnics).
Good luck PN
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foolosophy says:
Muslims, have some respect to the Chinese. They’re the ones who brought Islam to Indonesia.
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sputjam says:
Muslims, have some respect to the Chinese. They’re the ones who brought Islam to Indonesia.
To some this is a curse.
Due to islamisation, the pribumis are not able to fully embrace freedom of thought (some say religion). The religion of islam is above criticism due to threats. But then, it could be the indian muslims who brought the religion of islam to malay archipelago. best for pribumis rid themselves of heathen beliefs. -
Deconstruction of (shabby) rebuttal:
Then I have nothing to say further, as PN turns out to be a bigot [token martyrdom with blanket slur for those who dare disagree with MY argument ]
If we can’t work to [implication of opponents unreasonable non-co-operation] resolve the matters, then why would bother talking to someone like him? [plead to audince for accepance of position: acknowledgment of loss opponent does not agree with me fully: “I am 100% right- if you disagree you’re worse than Hitler”]
PN… you can say all what you like, but to be honest, what you have said and done is counter-productive [facile dismissal of argument avoiding possibly error or fault in countering opponent argument]
Your responses are just full of hatred [emotive: plea to reader sympathy], the same shown by Hitler and Budi Oetomo [blanket slurs- argumentum ad absurdum “you’re Hitler {because you don’t agree with me/say things I don’t like to hear}].
And to be honest, I’m not interested in identity issues at all [hypocrisy- then why author a book about it?]
What I’m interested in are how to deal with global warming and how to alleviate poverty [diversion of argument to the self construct- emotive plea for reader empathy].But knowing there are a lot of us still having problem with conflicts in identity, I spent some of my time trying to understand its dynamism [justification of work- surrender of own arguments as being owned by the anonymous third party]
I have worked in my entire life as a journalist, humanitarian volunteer in Aceh, an activist, a writer, all professions not even close to a business person, the stereotype once associated with being a Chinese [note: plead for reader acknowledgment as the outstanding conscientious exception to the rule: “look at me, I’m different: I’m a good one”].
Now I intend to become an anthropologist [emotive plea to reader: “look at me, see how magnanimous I am?”] to understand diversity in Indonesia (Indonesia has more than 1,000 ethnics).
Sugeng Tindak Mas.
Dragonwall- don’t be a fool.
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You must be trying to tell us that it is the CHinese that pays Someone Been Laden 50,000 rupiahs to place the bomb and also to create a small chaos in some part of Java?
THAT’S WHY I SAy TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR.
Ngaca Dulu Dong.
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I have worked in my entire life as a journalist,
So I see, no wonder throughout the whole bog that you wrote were all but no truth, conjecture and sheer fabrications? Didn’t someone said the press could not be believe?
humanitarian volunteer in Aceh,
That must be the Red Cross! Then you had worked on the wrong side of humanitarian to understand about discrimination and racism against the Chinese.
an activist,
Also no wonder you have been so actively placed yourself by placing propaganda from your old out of date newsroom. Hmm I wonder if there were any royalties that could possibly make you a Warren Buffet or Li Ka Sheng of the outer space kind.
a writer,
Well all I see is that you write nonsense.
all professions not even close to a business person, the stereotype
Ha..no wonder you can stomach the success of the Chinese businessman so you started by saying you dislike the Chinese action.
Ya, ngak dapat anggur maka bilang anggur asem.
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Lairedion says:
dragonwall,
In all you anger you’re constantly taking the bait and you are reacting to Protus Tanuhandaru’s comments.
Weren’t you the one who claimed never to have lost a debate? Well, I guess this must be a first timer. 🙂
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Thank you for noticing that (PN did not remarked anything to this effec and I intentionally did this to get his attention).
Bait or not it is all about debate and not argument.
I am not an angry person to be honest but considered easily agitated when the issue is being side stepped. For more than a year I have been an observer with no comments.
When I say sue the dutch..what happened in Indonesia?
I am not even Indonesian as earlier mentioned and is not living in Indonesia so why should I care sh*t about, except I understand Indonesia well enough to pick out people who speaks nonsense. His comments were directed to Chinese problems and the hatred he conceive.
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I am trying to see what PN’s reaction not to Protus T’s because what he wrote in most of his comments were similar if not the same as that of PT’s.You may want to consider that I pick out phrase after phrase borrowed from someone and not copy and paste in exact replica.
I also sense that of late your comments had change quite a bit and I hope that could be for the better. Debates and not Arguments. So we square.
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PT Sorry about borrowing some of your words.
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dragonwall,
So what’s the purpose of borrowing words from another person? If you want to debate just reply straight to PN’s comment or refrain from it.
Besides that with you it’s all about foul-mouthing. You’re just back and here we go again, name calling and swear words like sh*t, faggots, maggots etc. You haven’t changed a bit with observing from a distance.
But I’m glad you’re back. Long have I anticipated a discussion between you and Purba Negoro. I’m eager to see how this will evolve. 🙂
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If you have observe, unless the person’s comment had gone to the extent of breaking the ruler then it’s about time to tell this guy off.
All those words that I had borrowed in majority comprising a similarity of these and I felt compel to make something to get this guy to understand what he is talking about because doctrination of any kind will not chnage his perception as he choose to apply his own attitude towards what had happened by pretending not to know and yet he profess quite a bit more like a Wikipedian.
In most posting about, Anti Chinese Violence, 1998 Riots, Christian Subject to Discrimination and those people who indirectly wants to place themselves in the position of a discriminator, instigator, provocator and claims that he is right to condone such atrocities, then certain words needs to be driven across.
And one thing sometimes it is time consuming to debate with someone whose mind and onset had long been brainwashed into such believes. No Nationalist, No heroes (No body wants to be a hero because they always ended up dead) everyone is a criminal, corruptor, everyone steals from the Indonesian Government, all Chinese are those that were the main cause of the riots and so on.
Do you expect to spend the time!
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Dragonwall: PT Sorry about borrowing some of your words.
I’m okay with this, so am I with PN’s remarks. But again, I won’t argue any further. The world is facing a variety of issues. So I rather not spend my time debating on this any longer.
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I have worked in my entire life as a journalist,
So I see, no wonder throughout the whole bog that you wrote were all but no truth, conjecture and sheer fabrications? Didn’t someone said the press could not be believe?
Your Singlish is hilarious.
But in your tomfoolery you completely validate my point.
Glodok Gossip as peddled by a vested interest Cheenaman completely avoiding fact”
Also no wonder you have been so actively placed yourself by placing propaganda from your old out of date newsroom. Hmm I wonder if there were any royalties that could possibly make you a Warren Buffet or Li Ka Sheng of the outer space kind.
Well all I see is that you write nonsense.
all professions not even close to a business person, the stereotype
Ha..no wonder you can stomach the success of the Chinese businessman so you started by saying you dislike the Chinese action.”You’ll have to translate this one from Singlish, sorry.
I just don’t get it or follow your bizarre logic. -
I am American educated dummy, so if you do not know how to differentiate then considering you the same Ancient Negriti writing from Wikipedia.
Try introspecting yourself and see yourself what you wrote, make comparison and see for yourself what the outcome is then you continue making comments.
Where you go or where you are there are the good the bad and ugly. how many percent are those make up of the latter two? Of cause I am sure you are one of them and not only that but the ugliest of them all sort of to say.
Not only I stomach the success of Chinese businessman. Take the look at China ask your Shanghainese friend. The step to success must be big.. You know who said that?
Yes I some of those Chinese action had cause some concern that is why people like you were capitalizing on the situation and instigating others against them. They should have, and by now they might have downplayed their part. I suppose they also have learnt their leason so as not to expose too much in order to avoid being preyed upon by scavengers like you.
I with PN as PN turns out to be a bigot
Then PN has proven himself to be the hilarious commentator in these blogs. Shall I say No 1?
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Sylvester says:
Yup dragonwall.
I wonder why people still care about PN. It’s no use and wasting time. Just ignore.
Anjing menggonggong kafilah berlalu. -
Dragonwall…
I do not see you engaging in debate here on this one. What I see is desperation from someone who has no response and diving into the gutter language wise in a hope to divert people’s attention from the fact that you have nothing left in the tank, you are running on empty.
You make all these claims about how important you are in banking and finance circles and the respect that others have for your achievements but you hide behind a pen name. Why not give some sterngth to your claims by posting as yourself? Perhaps the reason you do not is that if you are a star like you claim to be, then when people in your cirlce found out what you really believed they might ensure that your star fades rather quickly.
It really is a case of the pot calling the kettle black here. You ping PN for his racism and bigoted ways (he has an argument based on definition why he is neither) and yet you do the same in the construction of your arguments. In the part of the world that I inhabit we call this hyprocrisy.
The threat of physical violence is always a nice touch. This shows that when all else fails and you lose the argument then you will just beat the crap out of the victor and then claim victory yourself. Perhaps this is what you mean by never having lost an argument?
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Dragonwall,
you are a comedian.More Singlish and Chinglish please- you’re sense of humour is better than Jacky Chan’s superlative Keaton-esque slapstick.
I think I may have seen you in some sillly Hong Kong gangster spoof movie- the goggled doofus.
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Rob,
You are so right. A couple of comments back I said to him:
Besides that with you it’s all about foul-mouthing. You’re just back and here we go again, name calling and swear words like sh*t, faggots, maggots etc. You haven’t changed a bit with observing from a distance.
I suspect dragonwall is a frustrated person who blame everybody else for his failures. If he is that successful he claims to be why would he care about what PN and others say here? His comments are based on swearing, foul-mouthing and name-calling and now we can add physical threat to that. You must read the discussion I had with him on the Sharia Byelaws thread. Glorious stuff. 😆
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I think I may have seen you in some sillly Hong Kong gangster spoof movie- the goggled doofus
You know for once you are right..
I suspect dragonwall is a frustrated person who blame everybody else for his failures. If he is that successful he claims to be why would he care about what PN and others say here? His comments are based on swearing, foul-mouthing and name-calling and now we can add physical threat to that. You must read the discussion I had with him on the Sharia Byelaws thread. Glorious stuff.
I am quite sure there is someone out there trying to pick on me being foul mouth without mentioning others in referrence.
I have showed proof of my success in earlier posting on where to find me so whether I am successful or not is left to be seen.
As for being frustrated yeah a little bit when people go all out talk nonsense and trying to change history then I opt to be relentless.
Hmm.. i getting to it now.. You might be one of them.. when they foul mouth, name calling and swear didn’t see you any where near that..And now add physical threat.. It is okay with me..Show me some balls.
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How nice Rob,
I do not see you engaging in debate here on this one. What I see is desperation from someone who has no response and diving into the gutter language wise in a hope to divert people’s attention from the fact that you have nothing left in the tank, you are running on empty.
You have been late, you show check out the thread on Yusril Ihza Mahendra and see why, diversion or running on empty we will see. I need not tell you where I am and let you backstab me right.
You make all these claims about how important you are in banking and finance circles and the respect that others have for your achievements but you hide behind a pen name. Why not give some sterngth to your claims by posting as yourself? Perhaps the reason you do not is that if you are a star like you claim to be, then when people in your cirlce found out what you really believed they might ensure that your star fades rather quickly.
Sorry to dissapoint you, then the more I cannot disclose which bank or institution. You failed to impress me. Everyone is so eager to know who this guy is then something happened. I can only disclose some but there are too much that still exist in Indonesia that are at stake. Who you are is not important to me at all. You mean using a real is a real person they are? How silly you are. Your IQ needs some fine tuning.
There are people out there who are corelated to one another and for sure you have been drawn into their webor being one of them. Grow up.. If that is who you are then you have not grown enough to understand the dirty Indonesian politics on the potential delicacy that pevails. Whether you know what you are talking or not you judge yourself.
It really is a case of the pot calling the kettle black here. You ping PN for his racism and bigoted ways (he has an argument based on definition why he is neither) and yet you do the same in the construction of your arguments. In the part of the world that I inhabit we call this hyprocrisy.
If someone slap you in the face then it is time to clap them back. Try recall what you say in Racism. You mean I have to give him a lot of things in ARGUING? Don’t history tell all know all to be sufficient to fill the egoistic inhibition you had? I suppose I should copy and paste lot more, add more thread and spend hours upon hours just trying to tell this sh*t of? You must still be in your kindergarten years.
The threat of physical violence is always a nice touch. This shows that when all else fails and you lose the argument then you will just beat the crap out of the victor and then claim victory yourself. Perhaps this is what you mean by never having lost an argument?
Hmmm.. Physical threat, how to??? Violence, with what????? Beat the crap, from where???? Do I need to, knowing that he is a bigot.blah..blah..blah????
Ahhh now I also see that you are side by side with someone in the blog..Must have been complacent myself in understanding “Birds of the same feather flock together” and could you recall under what circumstance I say when I mentioned that “never having lost an argument”. Someone is waiting for this moment for quite some time….How nice..
Are you American or Australian..
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Dragonwall…
Once again you have me by te short and curlies on this thread as well. You are just so much smarter than me and so much more knowledgeable about all things. It is time I surrendered to your superiority on all things.
Backstab you? How and for what? I really do not care where you are in the big scheme of things. It is amusing to me that many of your posts describe how successful you are and how you have made so much money, and how you can do this or that. I was merely questioning you on if you are so proud of your achievements (and if your achievements are real) why don’t you post under your real name? reasonable question.
I would ask the same of PN and have. So, no bias on that front. I am not surprised that you cannot disclose who you are. My reasoning holds true. That is, if you were to reveal your true self then you might not be the star you think you are for very long.
Does my IQ need fine tuning. Dude, if my IQ is only 75 then no amount of fine tuning is going to fix that.
This is the beauty of the nonsense that you espouse in this forum. You assume and judge all others and then get a little upset when others return the favour to you. I understand Indonesian politics and law as well as most and perhaps better than some others even with an IQ that needs some fine tuning.
The idea that if someone slaps you then you have a right to slap them back. Self-defense, no doubt? I wonder whether you are a religious man and I wonder what your religion says about violence towards others and retaliation.
Perhaps an eye for an eye? If I am not mistaken, Gandhi said words to the effect of, “an eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind”. Perhaps you are blinded by your rage and anger. Perhaps it is PN that has gotten under your skin rather than you under his.
You cannot tick me off. Simply, your arguments do not warrant it, your choice of language highlights a failure to understand the issues and have an argument to respond. Nope, when push comes to shove you squeal a need to fine tune an IQ or you must still be in kindegarten. You think that ticks me off, big fella?
On whether I am American or Australian. Read my blog and that question will be answered for you. I am not hiding anything there. You will have to decide whether my blog is really me or is it me writing under a pen name as someone else. I would imagine that if you are a lawyer then it will not take you long to ask around and find out who I am.
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Backstab you? How and for what? I really do not care where you are in the big scheme of things. It is amusing to me that many of your posts describe how successful you are and how you have made so much money, and how you can do this or that. I was merely questioning you on if you are so proud of your achievements (and if your achievements are real) why don’t you post under your real name? reasonable question
The word backstab could be from somewhere, anywhere because who knows who you are when you were to take a closer look at many of these anti chinese bloggers.
Even when I was successful while I was in Indonesia, I still maintain a low profile so do I have to have a reason to remain anonymous? I don’t suppose it is mandatory, right.This is the beauty of the nonsense that you espouse in this forum. You assume and judge all others and then get a little upset when others return the favour to you. I understand Indonesian politics and law as well as most and perhaps better than some others even with an IQ that needs some fine tuning
So you deemed in your understanding that such constitute nonsense that I espouse? I see now that what ever you wrote you just type without thinking far and near weigh betwen light and heavy the outcome and anticipated response. You are great. And felt that I should not assume, I sould not judge what others say.
You then continue to the complete the sentence by saying others gets a little upset on returning a favor. Not that I don’t appreciate favors. So you practice law? But yet you insist or feels that a successful person should write using his or hers own name? I thought Alexander was the Great now it is Rob The Great.
The idea that if someone slaps you then you have a right to slap them back. Self-defense, no doubt? I wonder whether you are a religious man and I wonder what your religion says about violence towards others and retaliation.
What has en eye for and eye or slap in reciprocity got to do with religion? Did I mentioned anything about violence that I am going to kill someone or what?
Perhaps you are blinded by your rage and anger. Perhaps it is PN that has gotten under your skin rather than you under his.
Right So you see a person who commented in retaliation is always a person who is in a blind rage and angry and that PN had gone under my skin and started stabbing every one in his way.. Another great description.
What else?
Don’t you feel that when a person who make such malicious remarks is someone who belongs to the unfit? And yet you compel yourself in putting into nice words to be diplomatic?
Little wonder when these guys said of lickspittle Whitey, who are they actually referring to then?
You cannot tick me off. Simply, your arguments do not warrant it, your choice of language highlights a failure to understand the issues and have an argument to respond. Nope, when push comes to shove you squeal a need to fine tune an IQ or you must still be in kindegarten. You think that ticks me off, big fella?
I said earlier I do not argue on these blogs, non whatsoever. And my choice of language is to make it simple. Understanding an issue is one thing. It is either yes or no. nothing else. When people gives excuses, elaborate, because someone say, then you can take the first row and continue your arguments. Not me. I prefer to give him straight forward either a question upfront of otherwise.
On whether I am American or Australian. Read my blog and that question will be answered for you. I am not hiding anything there. You will have to decide whether my blog is really me or is it me writing under a pen name as someone else. I would imagine that if you are a lawyer then it will not take you long to ask around and find out who I am
Whether you are hiding or not I did not put that in question neither have I asked you to reveal your identity. I have not came across any person by this name as yet, a lawyer or expert witness or professor in politic but sooner or later if you are in the US then it won’t be long for me to find out who you are. We wil then see how much you weigh.
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Dragonwall…
Are you suggesting I am an anti-Chinese blogger? Your anonymity is your call. I was merely pointing out that I could create an anonymous persona for myself and claim to be Indonesian Chinese and then claim that I am successful and have done all these super things and create a voice of authority as someone with first hand knowledge and in the know but really be a white bloke sitting in a coffee shop in Sydney. I guess though that you did not get that point.
You want to be anonymous go for it big fella.
I think you missed the point on nonsense but nevertheless the nonsense to which I refer is the manner in which you claim the moral high ground against PN yet use the same kind of rhetoric and stereotyping.
The next paragraph also loses me somewhat as my point was really to do with the exchange and fighting fire with fire but getting upset when you are called on the arguments you are making. I did not say that as a lawyer you had to psot under your own name. My comments about lawyers needing to revert to foul language in their brief where it is clearly not necessary is interesting to me as it seems to be an attention diverter.
Thanks for the comparison to Alexander the Great. Not quite sure how it fits into the argument but whatever.
An eye for an eye has much to do with religion. I was also getting at the idea that violence begets only more violence. I am sure that you missed this point as well.
No, my comment was not that any one who responds to an argument is blinded by rage or anger. That is a misrepresentation of the point. You though have exhibited real anger, rage, and frustration and this is evidenced in the content of your responses and the fact that you use foul language. You don’t see anyone jumping up and down in support of your use of foul language on IM, do you? Is the only way to respond to people such as PN with foul language? The fould language is for whose benefit? PN’s? Our’s? Your’s?
Belongs to the unfit for what? If PN belongs with the unfit for what he has said then you should be joining him there for the things you have said. This is the hypocrisy of what you espouse and this is also what one means when they talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Not being diplomatic, rather calling it as I see it. And you are getting whipped on all fronts by PN and this is what has got your gaot more than anything else and this is why you revert to foul language. You simply cannot sustain the argument in a civil way. This does not for one minute suggest that the manner in which PN makes his points are always civil. Rather I am questioning your ability to win the argument on one-up manship in terms of who can be the most rude and crude to the other.
There are a few who have a beef with me because of my whiteness, AAB would be one, but that comes with the territory here. Am I a lickspittle whitey? I guess you will need to use your fame and fortune to enquire around and find out for yourself. This assumes that you are really interested, and I do not believe that you are.
Not only don’t you argue, you use up space with rants, raves, and threats of violence. You do not argue because you do not seem to understand how to craft an argument and then sustain it. When someone calls you on your argument you then decide to swear and curse. Oh well!
Whether I am real or not. As I said, check out my blog and make your own call. If you have been so successful in Indonesia and have as many conncetions as you claim, then it won’t take you long. I did not say that you asked me to reveal my identity. Rather I was making the point that it is there for all to see.
Am I worried about defamation and the need to have money in the bank, no. You cannot defame someone with the truth.
So, you are in the US? And if I am in the US it will not take you long to find out who I am? What you with the FBI? Let me save you the trouble, click on my name and it will take you directly to my blog.
The final sentence is a nice touch. Let me save you the trouble on the weight thing. About 92kgs at the moment. Or was the ow much you weigh point another threat that you are going to bring out the big boys against me to see whether or not I am tough enough to go toe-to-toe with your “friends”? As you can see, I am shaking in my boots.
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Ha..ha..ha…
And that is what you summed up.. being civil.. to be civil.. understand civil..
See..you don’t create an anonymity just because you want to claim.. You create an anonymity because you need to protect yourself because you are there and the potential risk factor to you and your family.. Yes I am successful and have done quite a lot in Indonesia and by exposing my identity will direct people to who I am..
I suppose Australian like doing that not Chinese. We try to protect ourself.
Argue.. I already told you I will not go into an argument..not me.
Anger..oh..no..being whipped with those words..come one.. you do better..
Well a professor teaching in the Singapore University somewhat tried making a statement in the FEER in Singapore against LKY and was seen reeling back into the US.
As for you that is your problem. With people like PN there is no truth.. don’t you get it.So lets try and click Rob the Great..and see ..what ..happened..
Guess what..
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Dragonwall,
PN’s style is not my style. He’s rude to anybody, also fellow Indonesians, a habit usually attributed to loud-mouth Brits and their descendants. In past comments he called me a Dutch traitor and a liar. These are his words. I never told him my grandfather died at the hands of the Dutch in 1946. Perhaps PN is the exception on the rule Javanese in general don’t use rude words, express aggressive emotions and anger. But sometimes I can see his sense of humour filtering through and he does raise valid points every now and then.
AAB has never been rude to me directly or indirectly so why should I be rude to him?
Your comments, on the other hand, are either full of aggression or contains an uncontrollable desire to prove yourself over and over again. But keep on posting, I enjoy reading comments from fish like you.
Comment on “Anti-Chinese Violence”.
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I can only agree at this juncture – Chinese are not homogeneous. The earlier Chinese settlers concentrated in the Sambas region had no trouble assimilating. Predominantly Hakka, they were less clannish and many had fought alongside the pris against foreign domination. The latter day fortune seeker Hokkiens are the most cunning and arrogant.