Kawin Campur Bride Prices
Feb 21st, 2010, in News, by Patung
Foreign men marrying Indonesian women and a $50,000 security guarantee.
The initial draft of a bill on religious marriage law to be put forward to the parliament this year is said by some to contain a clause that would require foreign (Muslim) men wishing to marry Indonesian (Muslim) women to make a deposit of 500 million rupiah (about $50,000) into a sharia bank account as a guarantee, in case they later desert their wives and any resultant children and return to their home countries.
The draft bill, which is called in its full glory Rancangan Undang-undang (RUU) Hukum Materiil Peradilan Agama Bidang Perkawinan, but is sometimes mentioned in the media as RUU Nikah Siri, RUU Peradilan Agama, or RUU Perkawinan, is meant to be a clarification and strengthening of the original Marriage Act of 1974.
The bill, in general terms, says men, foreign or Indonesian, are required to provide monetary support to estranged wives until divorce papers are finalised, and to any children under the age of 21. The $50,000 dollar guarantee is an attempt to prevent foreign men from avoiding these obligations by leaving the country.
Foreign women wishing to marry Indonesian men will not be required to make similar arrangements, however like men they are expected to get permission from their countries of origin to marry.
Minister of Religion Suryadharma Ali, whose office is responsible for having prepared the draft, says the Department of Religion had heard of a number of cases in Jepara, Central Java, where foreign furniture businessmen had arranged to acquire Indonesian brides, and once their dealings in the town were done deserted their local wives. detiknews
Opinions
Actress Ratu Felisha, married to Dutchman Jules Korsten, is one who is supportive of the idea, saying that Indonesian women will thereby be protected in mixed marriages, although she worries that some jobless women might deliberately seek out foreign men to woo, in order to have access to the money later. detikhot
Meanwhile Julia Perez, who was once married to Spaniard Damian Perez but now gets around with Argentinian Gaston Castano, is vociferously opposed, imploring the government to reconsider the plan. solopos
Another actress, the gorgeous Feby Febiola, who is married to somebody called Bruce Deltail from France, says the impression given is that the government is selling Indonesian women, at the right price, and further that not all bules in Indonesia have that sort of money lying around.
Another controversial proposal in the bill includes sanctions of up to six months imprisonment for Muslims carrying out nikah siri informal marriages, which are not later registered with the Department of Religion. This aspect of the bill has excited the most controversy, which has caused Minister of Religion Suryadharma Ali to state that it is only a draft, and will likely be revised before being put to parliament.
174 Comments on “Kawin Campur Bride Prices”
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ZZZBRILJANT says:
Yes ET it is like u say abt creeping islamization, but I not think an argument like that whil help for stop the LAW
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khafir says:
@TimDog
I get the distinct feeling that you are either from the UK or Australia and have found yourself to be the minority in your own country and are now one of those foreign squatters who come to Indo, adopt the country and then become some “easy chair” expert on every going on in the country. You probably have a wife or gf or ttm 1/2 your age and weight.
Any intelligence you like to push around on Indonesia Matters is slowly being undermined by your keen ability to undercut other people down such as demoting English teachers to being a miserly occupation.
I also assume you have an overly inflated salary for a not-so-important job that probably rapes Indonesia and it’s people of their natural resources but you pay no mind to that because it allows you to float around with self-importance and impress those poorer, less educated underlings you call Indonesian friends.
Your history of Indonesia is skewed to say the least but….arguing that point to Timdog would be defeatist because like the religious people you know so much about, you can easily twist facts to your favor.
Therefore…I concede to the Holier-than-thou Timdog. YOU DA’MAN!!!!
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@timdog,
Thanks for reminding me to read books.
But, in line with khafir’s comment above: why are you so eager on hush-hushing islamization issue in indonesia?
Ok, maybe you have no personal agenda at all; you’re just doing it simply because you’re a liberal, tolerant, laid-back, west european. *Yeah, right (pass me on that weed man)*.
You’re not going to be affected anyway (if indonesia succumb to islamization). When that happen you can simply hop into an airplane, leave indonesia, off to the next paradise on earth, like, err… I don’t know, nepal? (though I have trouble picturing nepal as paradise, I heard people don’t bathe very often there).
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venna says:
@Timdog:
But I really don’t think this has got anything to do with forcing Islam on anyone –
______________it is not clearly stated, of course, but I’m pretty sure they have it in their mind. Living in Indonesia since my childhood, I’m familiar with this “paranoia” – there’s always someone (teacher, religious leader, adults) who screamed: O my god, look at the statistic! Now moslem population is only 80% in this country! We used to be 95%! O my god, what should we do?!
You probably also familiar with this situation: When they saw people helping tsunami victims under their religious institutions, they call it “Kristenisasi”, but never admit it as “Islamisasi” when they’re doing the same thing. They call it as “Dakwah”, which gives soothing and calming effect to people.
And don’t forget, not much people have strong gut to criticize something when it is linked to their own belief.
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t seems that if they had anything in mind when cooking it up it was Saudi sex tourists and frequently visiting businessmen, who probably have a worse record for stitching up Indonesian women
____________________________Yes, you can find it anywhere in this country. Wherever a big project starts and involving lots of consultant/workers from abroad, it also open the market: girls who willing to have temporary marriage/relationship with them for a house or some amount of money, and foreigners who want to spend a tiny bit chunk of their salary without any further consequence or responsibility. Simple relationship like “You sell-I buy”. Unfortunately, lots of innocent girls are trapped into this; believing that they got good husbands, but they are not treated as the way they deserve.
I like the idea of giving protection to women (the guarantee, not the 500 juta part). But it won’t work well if this RUU is not revised completely, since this RUU itself is not really protect women from abuse or any other damages in their marriage.
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timdog says:
@ET – I think it ought to be apparent to anyone who looks closely that I dislike Islamisation as much as the next person, particularly where it engages in obliterating local colour (in a sense, “Islamisation” is very much a part of modern “globalisation”, but that’s another story). However, on the other hand, I think confusing “Islam” with “Islamism”, strident Islamophobia (which always involves absurd double-standardism and hypocracy), and over-egging the “Indonesia’s going to the Taliban” pudding, is ridiculous.
You, meanwhile, do seem to have an “issue” with “Islam” that borders on an obsession, particularly, for reasons which I genuinely cannot fathom, when it comes to the idea of bules converting for marriage. And having an issue of this kind will lead you to seeing ghosts that aren’t there, just like – gosh, it just popped into my head, really just like – some paranoid anti-communist in Cold War America freaking out over the Reds under the Bed.
Like this instance, where a retarded, offensive and ill-thought-out law simply has to be interpretted by you as another example of the evils of Islam…Java certainly has become “Islamised”, but having been to various rather more Islamised places I can seriously say that it is, even today, probably the least Islamised “Muslim” place in the entire world. Honestly, there’s Saudi Arabia, and then there’s all the other Muslim places in the world (including Bradford), and then there’s this huge gap, and then there’s Java.
Once again, it doesn’t mean that I don’t dislike the aspects of Islamisation that I do see in Indonesia, but it does mean that I emit a weary sigh every time I come across those hyseterical claims about just how “bad” it is.And also, if you acknowledge that some kind of “Islamisation” is as inevitable a part of globalisation as MacDonalds, then Java, because of its nature, may actually have the best chance of doing it well (or as well as possible, making the best of a bad lot, from my perspective as much as yours).
There is an entirely different dynamic going on when a young female student in Java decides to put on the jilbab that her mother would never have touched at that age from the one at play when a be-shuttlecocked mother who has never been seen by any man but her husband tosses the heavy blue burka over her own daughter’s head the moment puberty becomes even a vague prospect on the Northwest Frontier…Also, I don’t for a minute believe that the mainstream political classes of Indonesia have any interest in pushing Islam on anyone, or in nudging Indonesia towards theocracy. What they are interested in, being politicians, is buying out the constituency of the Islamists (and judging from the dwindling electoral returns of that lot, they seem to be suceeding). It is, of course, a dangerous game to play, as that kind of thing always is (look at what happened when Sukarno played it, with a certain entity other than Islam), and one to be watched with interest, and perhaps concern, but certainly not with paranoid hysteria.
I would actually like to discuss all of these things with you seriously, as you seem like a fairly reasoned fellow, except when the subject of bules converting to Islam for marriage comes up.
Finally, Priyayi by no means, and certainly not in this case, has to mean “aristocrat”. In the sense that I was using it, that often used by accademics, it simply means urban, established middle class people, generally employed, generation after generation, in the “clerical occupations”.
This is clearly rather more significant a group than a few lingering ghosts of an old aristocracy, but as always when I raise you an example to challenge your ideas about Islam, marriage and conversion you dismiss it out of hand as an irellevant abberation (see my earlier line about the double standardism innate in Islamophobia).I was also, rather naughtily, attempting to link in Achmad or whatever he calls himself now’s Bule-pembantu thread by suggesting that perhaps if a bule was to marry a Javanese Muslim of a kind unlikely to be found in a Blok M bar or at work over the laundry, then he might, ironically, be less likely later to find pressure to convert…. Another topic perhaps…
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@ Khafir, besides the fact that I am British (which I have mentioned a number of times on this forum) your assessment of me is so wide of the mark as to be really, genuinely funny. On my income, last month, quite seriously, I managed to scrape together a grand total of US$250. It was a shitty February; March will be better and I have some stuff lined up from May to September (outside of Indonesia, unfortunately) that will keep me rocking on for the rest of the year. Back to the drawing board on the character sketch mister (on the weight and relationship bit too, pal).
Sorry, I had no idea you were an English teacher, don’t take it personally; I’ve been one myself in the past, nothing wrong with that, but you have to allow a little tongue-in-cheek ribbing of english teachers as a species.
My knowledge of Indonesian history is less skewed and more informed than yours is, by a long way buddy. Read some books. It’s fun.
@ Diego, read all of the above for my response to me “downplaying Islamism”, and search this site for some stuff about the wali songo.
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wonder wonder! no hell right now, going to the cottage tomorrow
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The nutcase just reared its ugly head (and face) again:
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Who are they kidding? Do they really think most people have 50,000 dollars sitting around?
Pardon me if my question sounds strange; I’m not a member of the global business elite…
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deta says:
I would actually like to discuss all of these things with you seriously, as you seem like a fairly reasoned fellow, except when the subject of bules converting to Islam for marriage comes up.
I have the same impression with timdog, and would love to call it convertophobia 😉
Anyway, ET also pointed out the use of syariah bank as the reason to link this RUU with islamisation. So far that I know, the only difference between syariah bank and other banks is in term of the banking systems they are operating. Syariah bank doesn’t apply interest (at least not applied excessively) in managing the customers’ fund, but use the system of profit and risk sharing instead. However, it is not targeted for the muslim customers only.
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Oigal says:
syariah bank doesn’t apply interest (at least not applied excessively) in managing the customers’ fund, but use the system of profit and risk sharing instead.
Been reading too many PR brochures Deta.
In fact there is very little risk sharing on behalf of the bank and no they don’t call it “Interest”. My suggestion is you read the fine print very carefully on fees, charges, ownership and penalities. Do some basic maths on what you pay (forget the names) and compare to “normal” bank fees, charges and interest. Syariah is quite the little money spinner..and hey why not who would dare accuse them of ……….
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@ Oigal
Any sensible bank owner in the world will try to get as high profit as they can generate, that’s for sure, no matter what they call the banking system is. But the point I made was that the use of syariah bank can not be used a solid ground to link the RUU with islamisation as islamisation means the effort of converting non muslim to muslim, and I don’t see being a customer of a bank which is applying this banking system will convert people from one religion to another. -
Syariah bank doesn’t apply interest (at least not applied excessively) in managing the customers’ fund, but use the system of profit and risk sharing instead.
Well reads as nice little PR blurb to me and fundamentally a very rosy eyed view of Syariah banking which does not hold up to the reality/practice.
syariah bank can not be used a solid ground to link the RUU with islamisation as islamisation means the effort of converting non muslim to muslim,
Perhaps not but it does expose the driving force behind the lunacy in what is supposed to be a religious but secular nation. Perhaps all Muslims should be forced to use Syariah Banking for other transactions as well, leaving aside this particular RUU. Seems a logical if scary step perhaps why only for this RUU fee when so easy to….
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Perhaps all Muslims should be forced to use Syariah Banking for other transactions as well, leaving aside this particular RUU.
And push the reset button to start the economy all over from the bottom? I wouldn’t think that far. Neither would the so called lawmakers.
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ET says:
@ deta
But the point I made was that the use of syariah bank can not be used a solid ground to link the RUU with islamisation as islamisation means the effort of converting non muslim to muslim, and I don’t see being a customer of a bank which is applying this banking system will convert people from one religion to another.
It’ s a matter of semantics. Maybe this how you see it. The way I see islamization has to do with gaining control for the ultimate goal of creating some caliphate or theocracy. It’s funny how fast people forget their own history or do you really believe that the idea of Darul Islam has been entirely wiped out and forgotten, even with Aceh at your front door?
I have the same impression with timdog, and would love to call it convertophobia
Certainly, no chop-chop on me, honey.
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And push the reset button to start the economy all over from the bottom? I wouldn’t think that far
Who said anything about resetting the economy, fairly simple process to just mandate all government transactions must be via a Syariah Bank. As they are planning to do by this RUU, I wonder if the process would be put to tender to see which bank would provide best return to government?
Neither would the so called lawmakers.
Very interesting comment. On what do you base your crediting the “lawmakers” will even a modicum of commonsense or the ability to see past their own very short sighted, self interests. I am more than willing to stand corrected but I would suggest if form and past experience is any guide then you are backing the wrong horse.
Don’t forget this is the same mob who have the gall to reclassify Palm Plantation as forests in order to scam more REDD funds from the international community at the same time lobby to head up the UN Climate Change panel. Ok, I confess they are good for a belly laugh but commonsense..fair go.
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keep it coming oigal!!! i love reading your comments!
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deta said
I have the same impression with timdog, and would love to call it convertophobia
Why can’t I get rid of the impression there is a coalition of islamophiles here trying to make me convert?
Should I give in? -
Do I look submissive enough?
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@ Oigal
Okay, forget about the “lawmakers” part. Who am I to speak on behalf of them, anyway. But I’d love to put some thoughts on these:
Perhaps all Muslims should be forced to use Syariah Banking for other transactions as well,
Who said anything about resetting the economy, fairly simple process to just mandate all government transactions must be via a Syariah Bank.
You said previously “all Muslims should be forced to use Syariah Banking” then in the later post you said “all government transactions must be via a Syariah Bank”. Well, you confused me a little bit here as those are surely two different things. When we talk about ‘all muslim transactions should be processed through syariah banking’, of course it will cause a big shift in the economy because the majority of the customers of the normal/conventional banks, which are the fundamental institutions in the current economic system, are muslims. If we talk about ‘all government transactions should be processed through syariah banking’ it will have a slightly lower impact, but considering the numerous government transactions (especially the B to G) will have to be shifted from the conventional to syariah banking, the effect will still deep. And I don’t think the minister of economy will be happy to do some other bailouts for these banks.
As they are planning to do by this RUU, I wonder if the process would be put to tender to see which bank would provide best return to government?
If this process is put to tender, I can’t figure out exactly who the winner will be, but that’s certainly not the syariah bank, which is not as well established and probably has lower performance than other banks in Indonesia. Unless we talk about ‘tender as a formality’ here.
Don’t forget this is the same mob who have the gall to reclassify Palm Plantation as forests in order to scam more REDD funds from the international community at the same time lobby to head up the UN Climate Change panel.
I have to say that the only benefitted parties in the REDD and CDM schemes are the greedy crocs and the middle men (they may call themselves consultants but I prefer to call them calo) who help calculating the compensation derived from this schemes and organizing the administrative papers required. But of course that is a different topic.
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Certainly, no chop-chop on me, honey.
Okay hon, that explains everything. Now, if you behave, I’ll let you keep that precious treasure.
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And I don’t think the minister of economy will be happy to do some other bailouts for these banks.
Another option would be that the other banks adopt syariah policy. Convert, so to say.
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Unless we talk about ‘tender as a formality’ here.
Should never be a tender when talking about government mandated procurement of services, unless of course you are pandering to a select group of people who will benefit at the expense of others. This of course, has other names.
Another option would be that the other banks adopt syariah policy
The problem is ET, Syariah banking is in itself a confused mish mash of conflicting unregulated processes. Malaysian Syariah principles are not accepted in many Middle Eastern Countries, who themselves have no across the board standards.
Essentially a poorly performing product, which does however provide many belly laughs as they try and disguise interest under myriad other terms, fees and charges.
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Syariah banking is in itself a confused mish mash of conflicting unregulated processes. Malaysian Syariah principles are not accepted in many Middle Eastern Countries, who themselves have no across the board standards
Which explains why it’s not a smart option if this bank is to be used as a tool for gaining control.
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Okay hon, that explains everything. Now, if you behave, I’ll let you keep that precious treasure.
Fair enough. Would you leave your little man in the boat standing out there in the cold?
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Fair enough. Would you leave your little man in the boat standing out there in the cold?
Why not? It will make him grow up.
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@ deta
Why not? It will make him grow up.
Or shrivel and getting all wrinkled. Or even worse, tambah hitam. Astagfirullah, not a pretty sight to see.
Which explains why it’s not a smart option if this bank is to be used as a tool for gaining control.
But by using economics of scale they may hope to gain more influence. Hence the desperate attempts to attract new customers, even with the most moronic means like this RUU perkawinan.
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Who said that he is ‘standing out there in the cold’, wise guy? 😉 If I were you I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion so fast.
But by using economics of scale they may hope to gain more influence. Hence the desperate attempts to attract new customers, even with the most moronic means like this RUU perkawinan.
Who does the word ‘they’ refer too? The bank owners or the lawmakers? Because your statement fits nicely if the word ‘they’ refers to the bank owners. If it refers to the lawmakers and it is really based on the aim of gaining control and influence as you tried to argue, I agree that they are just some morons who use a time consuming method to achieve a goal that otherwise can be achieved using some other faster and more powerful ways.
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Which explains why it’s not a smart option if this bank is to be used as a tool for gaining control.
I do admire your optimistic view of the “law makers” since when does smart and that group go together (with some small but vastly outnumbered exceptions)? How you not been reading the papers for last couple of weeks.
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It’s not about ‘big time’ forcing, timdog. It’s about one step here, one step there, one bylaw after another. It’s called creeping islamization. It’s the way Indonesia and particularly Java has been islamized, and it hasn’t stopped yet. Just step outside and look at the number of jilbabs you see now compared to, let’s say, 10 to 20 years ago. And sometimes events happen – like 9/11 – which give an impetus and ‘momentum’ to tendencies that have been lying slumbering before. Does Darul Islam and Piagam Jakarta ring a bell?
I think you already said it yourself: a priyayi family, members of an acient aristocracy, educated, probably with means and bearers of an age-old inheritance of wisdom and syncretic tolerance. For an equal amount of money I could give you an example of the contrary, closer to home in my own family.