Bromo Tengger Converts to Islam
Mar 2nd, 2009, in News, by Patung
Some of the last holdouts against Islam on Java convert under the guidance of Hidayatullah.
On 1st March 2009 at Tempuran, Senduro, Lumajang, East Java 70 Muslim converts (mualaf) from the Tengger ethnic group (suku Tengger) were married in a mass ceremony.
The 70 people were part of a group of 227 Tengger people that had converted from Hinduism to Islam in mid 2007. Previously the 70 had been married according to Hindu rites, however these marriages were not officially registered or recognised.
They originate from Wonocempoko Ayu, Argosari, and Burno in Senduro, about 8km from Mt Bromo. 400 people from these villages have converted to Islam in recent years.
Zeigeist 1, Majapahit 0.
One man, Suyanto, said bmh.or.id
Wow, I’ve been married twice but with the same wife. Before I married according to another religion, now in the Islamic way. I’m so happy to be married within Islam after saying the confession of faith last year.
The Islamic marriages were organised by the fundamentalist group Hidayahtullah and the Lumajang local government. The couples paid nothing. Samsudin from Hidayatullah said: detik
So, people who convert to Islam will have their weddings paid for by Hidayahtullah.
Tenggerese are generally Hindu and traditionally live around or near Mt Bromo, and consider themselves to be direct descendants of the rulers of the last Hindu kingdom of Java, Majapahit. See “Hindu Javanese: Tengger Tradition and Islam” by Robert W. Hefner, Amazon, Google Books.
228 Comments on “Bromo Tengger Converts to Islam”
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Suryo Perkoso says:
Endo Hanafi Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I am an Indonesian. Spent my first 20 years in Aceh and then moved to Jakarta. As the preachers quote surahs or hadits, there is a big chance they will quote one of hatred/violent verses of the Koran. Any mosque will do. Some preachers indeed try to send a peaceful message of Islam, however since the Koran itself is full of hatred and violence, they will not prevail. Koran needs huge massive revisions, and Islam need a total reform to be an acceptable peaceful religion. But why bother to do it? That is Arab regilion anyway, let the Arabs deal with it. Just leave it before it is too late.
Perhaps the key here is that religions were invented after the event to control the people who needed controlling by fear in something intangable – thus different courses for different horses. It could be that to make Islam interesting for those it was originally intended to control, that there had to be a bit of head removal and other assorted munchings to make it acceptable to those for whom decapitating and munching were already a part of normal everyday life.
The bible has been modernized many times, though perhaps a revision that shows Jesus having a blog, and feeding the masses with tinned tuna and sliced bread is long overdue…
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Here is a photo of an unislamic beating by a boyfriend.
Mbak Endo Hanafi,
If you are from Indonesia, then quranic guidance do not apply to you. I am only helping guide overseas moslem to be good jihadi brothers and sisters.
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ET says:
Mohammed
Do you want to know what Islam says about women or what men do. If you want Islams version go here
Funny, then how come I and millions like me know that women should be respected, not only as human beings but especially as the bearers of future generations, including those whom my right hand possesses (my servants or employees) without even having to look at your holly book? Or do you pretend Islam also invented warm water?
Being well versed in koranic matters you probably know well enough what is meant by the italics above.
But oh, I forgot. I have to see it in the context of time and place, of course. -
Endo Hanafi says:
@AAB,
>>>If you are worried about the ‘beating’ part, rest be assured it is only with a small toothbrush.>>>
Like I said, the more you (and all apologists) tried to water down the unequivocal violent message of the Koran, the more weaknesses you shows. The rasulullah himself has showed us how he beat his child wife aisha until Aisha could not breath. Did he beat Aisha with toothbrush? No. So please do not fool yourself. Do research all the hadits. Fyi, there are around 7000 sahih hadits (Buchari, Muslim, Tarmizi). READ THEM.
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Mbak Endo Hanafi,
LOL.
Minta maaf dong. Women beating, child sex and marrying daughter-in-law only apply to overseas brothers and sisters. Pribumis are not uncultured Arabs or Arab wannabes, we are blessed with brains.
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dhea says:
@ AAB
If you are from Indonesia, then quranic guidance do not apply to you. I am only helping guide overseas moslem to be good jihadi brothers and sisters.
I just underline what you said AAB, pretty sad isn’t it.
What is interpretation on good jihadi brothers and sisters Mr AAB ?
Are this statements referring as the word Jihad from Osama and the gangs ?Minta maaf dong. Women beating, child sex and marrying daughter-in-law only apply to overseas brothers and sisters. Pribumis are not uncultured Arabs or Arab wannabes, we are blessed with brains.
Wow so you pick and choose whatever as you please in Qur’an basicly because this surah doesn’t apply to you.
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@AAB,
I understand, Hahhahaha.
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Mohammed says:
@AAB You are not Muslim with comments like this. Who are you kiding yourself or the non-Muslims. Or maybe you are trying to please them for acceptance.
They can say all they want I don’t care I used to be like many out there but I now know what is right from wrong. You cannot assign things to others when you have no defence for the accusations. I think you should just keep quite and say nothing at all. Ignorant is as ignorant does.
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Burung Koel says:
@ Mohammed
None of the reasons you mentioned is why I do this. The only reason is to stop the lies that people put out about Islam.
You didn’t quite get the point. Why are you so worried about the ‘lies’ people are putting out about Islam? If you are personally happy in your faith, why do you bother trying to preach to others or to show them how learned you are in religious matters? As the method actors might ask – what is your motivation?
I’m genuinely interested. Most people that I know who want to be considered as ‘good people’ are out helping others in a practical way. Have you ever thought about volunteering? I’m sure that even you could do some good in a place like Darfur.
It would certainly be more productive than sitting in your basement in Melbourne self-righteously cutting and pasting internet quotes on this forum.
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@Burung Koel
You didn’t quite get the point. Why are you so worried about the ‘lies’ people are putting out about Islam? If you are personally happy in your faith, why do you bother trying to preach to others or to show them how learned you are in religious matters? As the method actors might ask – what is your motivation?
I’m genuinely interested. Most people that I know who want to be considered as ‘good people’ are out helping others in a practical way. Have you ever thought about volunteering? I’m sure that even you could do some good in a place like Darfur.
It would certainly be more productive than sitting in your basement in Melbourne self-righteously cutting and pasting internet quotes on this forum.
Because it is my duty as a muslim to speak out about the wrong whether it is to do with Islam or something else. Why shouldn’t I have a zeal and love for my faith that I want to stop the misconceptions. Not only does this clear the misconceptions it’s stops people looking down on me and other Muslims and treating us differently or in a bad way when they know what Islam really preaches.
I live in Brisbane Australia and I can pick out the people who have no understanding at all about Islam by the way they look at me or my wife or by the way they speak to us or deal with us in shops. Some are so abrupt that you think they will pull out a knife and stab you any minute now.
How do they become like this? Because of the lies people and the media perpetuate about Islam. Every time someone like me trys to correct someones misconception for legitimate reason we get thrown comments such as you have made. Why this? Why that? Why?
Then others are so friendly and are genuinely interested. My 2 sister in laws where offered jobs by a non Muslims Australian lady. They both wear the hijab and one day it was raining and they were standing outside a beauty salon. The owner saw them and told them to come inside the shop out of the rain. She was a nice lady and started talking to them only to discover that one is a beauty therapist and the other a hair dresser who used to work for the best and most well known salon in Brisbane before deciding to wear hijab. She offered them jobs immediately and not just any jobs. The hair dresser is now the Lead hairdresser that all the others report to.
They went from practically unemployable because they chose to display their faith by the way they dress to some of the highest paid in Brisbane. The first thing they asked this lady what about dress code. She said I don’t care. If my customers don’t like it then I will get new customers. Well guess what since they started there business has tripled and they can’t keep up. Most of it is word of mouth since they really don’t advertise. People that they deal with are genuinely interested in asking questions about Islam because you don’t see someone wearing hijab working in a beauty salon. And they come back because they way my sister in laws treat their customer.
If people just sat back and did nothing then the world will be much worse than it already is. Maybe because this lady had a slight understanding of Islam or she new that people like to perpetuate lies she wasn’t prejudiced in asking my sister in laws to work for her. Maybe if more people decided to learn an understand rather that put forth hatred we would have so much problems in this world.
For 25 years of my life I tried to stay away from what is known as Islam so that I can fit into society. So that I wouldn’t have the racist comments thrown at me and the looks. I even used to think like some of the people here about Islam being violent etc. However the last 8 years I spent studying Islam properly and am still studying and now I look back and think what a fool I was to even think this. Islam is the best thing that anyone can come upon. Not because I think it is but because the non Muslims who became Muslims tended to point out to me. They go from a complete hatred of Islam to pure love for it. This was one of the main reasons that I started to come back to my religion. I was meeting so many converts to Islam that I had to give it another chance and I am glad I did.
In the last 10 years I noticed a big decline in Racism towards Muslims and this decline is still happening. Why because the young Muslims like me have started to come out of their hiding place and to change the misconceptions that people have. There are still problems here and there but with time they will disappear.
Also you don’t know me and what I do so don’t assume that I don’t volunteer for anything. My wife and I do quite a lot for many causes such as cancer foundations, children charities etc. These are non Muslim organizations. At least we are not prejudice to just what we believe in.
As for the cutting and pasting. I was at work and don’t have the time to type up so much information it was easier to cut and paste. Btw I don’t have a basement.
Let me ask you something? If you and others are happy about what you believe or don’t believe why do you spend your time attacking Islam and other faiths?
I have been on other forums where people attack ignorantly however when the proof is provided to them they accept it. Where as here people just repeat over and over again the same thing they have been saying like nothing has been provided to them to answer their misconceptions. Then they come out with the accusations you and your apologetics and this and that and you just proved my point etc.
It shows when you are talking to someone that might be slightly educated and someone that has no education whatsoever.
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@Mohammed,
>>>I don’t do this for you. You can make up all the things you want or misquote anything you want but there are people out there that don’t know anything about Islam and instead of doing the research they will just hate it based on what you said. This is wrong. They need to know the truth and both sides of the story before they can make judgment. Clearly you wouldn’t like this because of the things that you concerning what I said.>>>
Now we are back to square one.
You seems supporting my basic position. To know Islam, the true Islam, one does not need other sources but Koran and hadiths, to prove Islam is nothing than a teaching full of hatred, violence, and fairy tales. That is basically i said to people here.
Those who think of converting to Islam or want to know Islam more, the best source is Koran and hadiths. Do not listen to others, do not listen to crappy links you cut and paste-ed. Do not listen to what me, but just read Koran and hadiths.
As the Koran is words of God–according to moslems–and hadiths are the reports of the sayings and actions of God’s mesanger Mohammad, learning them is the best proper way to know a true Islam. Again, I have to repeat what I said before, Koran and hadiths are the most proper source to learn Islam. Read them with a clear mind and one will know the truth of Islam. is that too much to ask from people thinking of converting to Islam? Am I wrong to ask people to look before they leap?
And who are you trying to explain the words of God (which the Koran itself claims as “clear and no doubt about it”) with your pathetic, apologetic explanations? Are your words more trustworthy than the words of your God?
Regards
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Great do what Endo Hanafi suggests. I don’t have a problem with that. Although I do have a problem with you thinking that it is as simple as reading Quran and hadith to understand Islam properly. Just by doing this a person will understand. Then they will ask questions then they will not have any doubt in there minds that Islam is not like you say it is.
My Australian friend did exactly what you said to prove to his Muslims friends that Islam is wrong and violent and he and his girlfriend (an american girl) became Muslim at the age of 16 and 14. He is a very intelligent person who is doing a medicine degree at the moment. So you can’t argue that he was naive or to young to understand.
He is the most logical thinking guy that I have ever known and he loves Islam. just by doing what you have suggested to others to do.
All I can say is just make you you don’t pick and choose verses or parts of verses rather than reading the entire chapter.
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@Endo Hanafi
To know Islam, the true Islam, one does not need other sources but Koran and hadiths, to prove Islam is nothing than a teaching full of hatred, violence, and fairy tales.
So then to know how to perform brain surgery one doesn’t need to go to university and work for many years as a surgeon before being able to be a brain surgeon just read a few anatomy and dissection text books.
That is the stupidest comment you have made so far but thank God you where right about one thing
Read them with a clear mind and one will know the truth of Islam.
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@Mohammed,
The Koran is the words of “God”. Contradicts to the Koran claims as ” clear and no doubt about it”, it is absolutely full of doubts and ambiguities. The doubts and ambuigities of it are also supported by you, with you realised it, by trying to explain it apologetically and copy pasted some crappy links.
One can not comprehend the Koran by reading the Koran alone, it is too unstructured. That why there so many tafsr of the Koran, it is way to difficult to undestand the logic. It is itself has proved the writer is incompetent. It is amazing some people like you believe this book as words from God. Is God too stupid to create such book?
To help understand the verses in the Koran, fortunately, there are hadiths. Hadiths are the reports of the sayings and actions of God’s messanger Mohammad. There are 70 thousand of hadiths including 7000 of so called sahih hadiths. The hadiths are reported by people who are moslems, companions, and followers of Mohammed. They must be true since they are reported by people who love him. Mohammad is a true example how Islam should be practiced.
So if one does not understand the verse in the Koran saying “beat you wife” and doubt it, does not know what it means, has doubt about it, he/she should search it by how Mohammed explain it or implement it. And Voila, there it is, when the Koran says “beat your wife”, Mohammed indeed beat his wife so that his child wife almost could not breath. You could find that hadith easily if you want.
When the Koran says, “fight your enemy, whereever you find them”, Mohammad did that, he killed people even when they have been surrendered. You want to know his war coward tactic? Read more hadiths, he could suddently attack unarmed people cowardly without warning.
Worse, he “married” the nicest girl he lusted for which was the wife of the killed one, at the very night after his husband was killed by Mohammad. I do not make it up, it is there in hadiths.
People like you, who blind yourself, will say that “when the Koran say beat your wife”, it does not really beat, or beat your wife with a toothbrush. It is trully a pathetic desperate apologetic explanation. Did Mohammed beat his poor child wife with a small toothbrush? No. He did it with his own hand and he beat her hard so that she almost could not breath. Please do not fool yourself.
Do have a wife mohammad?
If you are not happy with her, will you just leave her alone and do not beat her to follow what Mohamad did to Aisha?Cheers
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Like it or not, Mohammed was no fool, what is the point in attacking people who will fight back? Same thing with the wife – why pick some old monster when you can get a tidy one?
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@Suryo,
Betul sekali ..ehh right. Rasulullah is not a fool. But he is not a man of honor, he put aside war ethics of that era.
Yes again. Mohammed Rasullulah has good sharp eyes on girls. When he was horny, he was capable of making sex with the girl he wanted even only hours after he killed her husband. He then called it as a marriage. That way, he acquired like…20 something (i lost count) wives. After each battle, or coward attack he did, he picked up one girl and had sex with her on that very night.
In addition, he also had sex with his slaves and his wives’ slave which are legal in Islam.
It is all written in hadiths, i do not make it up.
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For a clear and informed understanding of Islam and for those who want to spare themselves going through the nonsense of koran and hadith, read Prophet of Doom.
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LOL
You guys are funny. Accusations without proof are useless. As for the Prophet of Doom page I have read the whole thing before. If it isn’t the biggest joke that I have seen. Even a non muslim can see what this writer has tried to do.
Thanks ET, Endo and Suryo for the great laugh. I needed this since I had a tough day at work. Let me guess you are just expecting people to believe your accusations and lies without proof right. Anyway I won’t even bother arguing your points. You are right in what you say … well becuase you said so and we the rest of the world being as ignorant as we are can’t compare to your knowledge and can’t reason for ourselves so we will just accept what you say…. errr daaa.
BTW. Here you go Answering the Prophet of Doom and here’s another
Anyway I enjoyed laughing at your accusations and lies. Keep up the funny work.
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Oh Oh wait did I forget to mention that the Answering the Prophet of Doom website was put up by an ex ordained minister who became Muslim. Oops. Sorry. I guess he didn’t get or see your accusations and lies in the memo you sent out.
Too late. Now he is one of Us so is his wife and His catholic priest friend and his father who also is an ordained minister and the rest of his family and many of his friend and people that used to attend his church. Well I guess you guys aren’t doing a good job of spreading the news.
Just in case you are curious about him here is THE LINK
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You guys are funny. Accusations without proof are useless.
Indeed. There’s so much proof out there on the internet, just a few mouse clicks away. If only we had eyes to see and ears to hear it with.
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I live in Brisbane Australia and I can pick out the people who have no understanding at all about Islam by the way they look at me or my wife or by the way they speak to us or deal with us in shops. Some are so abrupt that you think they will pull out a knife and stab you any minute now.
This is a different issue altogether Moh – you’ve to understand that because of the way that some people have behaved in the past, we all get tarred with the same brush, and this happens to white guys too.
If you behave as a gentleman, and don’t force your beliefs on your adopted country, then surely you will find a different attitude in time.
You cannot expect a non-muslim nation (and that is their RIGHT and heritage) to welcome new residents who insist for example that their small children should wear Jilbab in school (state school) – and also that they should change their culture and beliefs to satisfy you – Saudi won’t allow a church or a bible, singapore won’t allow the gideons, please understand that while you faith is welcomed and accepted, you do not have any right to change your adopted homeland.If you feel bitter about it, go home where you won’t feel any pressure and enjoy your freedom there.
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And Moh, what is this “one of us” rubbish? regardless of faith, we are all brothers together – let us be judged on our deeds, not our “holy” book.
I am beginning to see why you are not enjoying your time in a different culture my friend.
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@ Mohammed
I can’t speak for your experience in Brisbane, although I’m sure that elements of racism exist everywhere. I’m a migrant from a minority myself, and my children (thanks to their mother) are doubly so. However if the migrant experience in Australia stands for anything, it says that seeing victimisation everywhere will not help you*.
A couple of points:
– People appearing scared of the way you dress may not be because you are a Muslim. Australia is a very secular country, and as you probably know, overt displays of religious faith (of any kind) are rare. A Catholic priest wearing a dog collar is just as likely to worry the average Australian if they came into his/her shop. That’s why priests and ministers tend to wear mufti** when not directly on the job.
– Preaching of any kind is further frowned upon, unless you make the choice to go to church, or a mosque. People can’t be bullied into believing. And the justification of doing so through ‘defending your faith’ in what is a tolerant, multicultural society, where you have far more freedom than most, and your beliefs or practice of worship are not under threat, will just annoy a whole lot of people.
– Suryo was concerned that wearing the jilbab in a state school might cause resentment. I’m not so sure. Just last Friday I was in a major art gallery, full of school groups. It’s a fashion for final year kids to have identical rugby shirts made up with their year (’09 in this case) and their nickname printed on the back. Nicknames are given out freely to kids in Australian schools, usually from the first day of attendance. Anyway, this was a state school, and there was one student in a jilbab. Her nickname, proudly printed across her shirt, was “Bad Hair Day”.
* Interestingly, this issue has also been raised since Obama’s election in the USA with young African-Americans. The reasoning goes that people like Barack Obama and Colin Powell are ‘outsiders’ and haven’t been subject to years of seeing themselves as victims of The Man.
** Yeah, I know. -
@BK and SP
There is also a lot of lies out there on the net 🙂 Yes elements of racism exist everywhere. I don’t wear jilbab and neither does my wife and I do have a pretty short beard which pretty much looks like a 10 O’clock shadow :). My wife wears hijab but she dresses nicely in modern clothing that covers which you can buy from most of the popular fashion shops.
Again SP with the assumptions that I am not from this country. You assume about me things that you don’t know just like you clearly assume about Islam things you don’t know.
I and my wife are not migrants. We are second generation Australians and our son is third generation. No body here lets their children wear a jilbab to school. We all abide by the laws and cultures here. Just because our women choose to cover their heads and we to grow a beard we get this treatment. My sisters go to school and they wear the school uniform and hijab and that is totally accepted by everybody. In fact they are quite popular seniors at their school and are loved by everyone. One of them is a school captain and the other a prefect. (They are twins btw). This is because the other students and teachers have an understanding of Islam or are not ignorant to make assumptions based on what others have said. If they do have a problem then they ask or read up about it.
I work for a for a company and I pray in my office and they know I am a Muslim. Sometimes when I am praying in a meeting room and they are going to have a meeting they wait politely until I am finished. Again these are well educated people who know not to judge without proof. They are very accepting of my faith. In fact I have more in common with my boss who is a strict catholic than he has with all the other workers who most of are not practicing. This is why me an him get along real good.
Australia is very multicultural and many people from many places and religions dress and preach in their own way. But they don’t get ostracized or frowned upon like the Muslims do.
We are not forcing our religion on them and preaching to them or asking them to change their lifestyles.
In fact the Jehovahs witness are preaching all over the place so are many other Christians, Hindu’s Harie Krishna’s etc. Muslims don’t really preach. We don’t need to. We don’t stand on corners or knock on peoples doors like the other religions do. Our preaching is the way we behave in society and that is what gets peoples interest. It is for Allah to guide people. We just have to set the example.
Like I said this hatred and racism is going away because we are changing this perception. We are showing the community what Islam really is. But there is always going to be those that take what they hear from people like you as fact and run with it without even looking into the issue.
The racism is due to the fact that they know we are Muslim not that we are different or from different countries. You don’t get the Australian media where you are but for example many faiths here are allowed to have there own private schools. When Muslims want to do this everybody comes out with the racist remarks about terrorists and backwards people etc etc. and so do the non Muslims that come to our defense.
Here many non Muslims grow their beards much longer than Muslims. However they don’t get the treatment we get.
I am sure you can search and find many articles by Aussie newspapers relating to these issues.
My wife and I have many non Muslim friends who are very acceptive of our faith. Just last weekend we attend a friends wedding in their church and we were very welcomed there. In fact the priest commented on my wife looking beautiful and that he wished the Christian women would come into the house of God modestly dressed rather than half naked. Even the pope and Vatican are advertising to the world to accept Muslims systems.
They attend our weddings too, in mosques and they are welcome there too.
But the ignorant person that doesn’t have much interaction with Muslims and reads and hears things that people say like what you said is automatically prejudiced against Muslims specifically for the fact that they are Muslims.
Even if they are true Australians who are born here with great great great great grandparents who were among the first British to settle hear. Just ask my my wifes Australian convert friends who wear the Hijab. They get discriminated against even though they are true blue Australians with blond hair and blue eyes and it is clearly visible on their faces and the way they talk or my Aboriginal Muslim friends who’s ancestors were here before the whites came.
So don’t go telling me and making excuses for things which you have not experienced here in Australia.
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This thread has probably passed its use by date. None of us are getting any younger.
But before I go, here’s a statement of my faith:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugTmhE9yDXk
Enjoy.
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@Mohamad,
Now I think you try to even blind yourself further. Be honest to yourself with what you read in your Koran and hadiths.
Which part of my post here is a lie? please specifically point out. I will be more than happy to provide you with Koranic verses and hadiths so you can read by yourself. It is what exactly the Koran and hadiths tell us. Sounds barbaric and destructive? Yes, it indeed is barbaric and destructive.
Salam
—————The Koran is the words of “God”. Contradicting to what the Koran claims as ” clear and no doubt about it”, it is absolutely full of doubts and ambiguities. The doubts and ambuigities of it are also supported by you, with you realised it, by trying to explain it apologetically and copy pasted some crappy links.
One can not comprehend the Koran by reading the Koran alone, it is too unstructured. That why there so many tafsr of the Koran, it is way to difficult to undestand the logic. It is itself has proved the writer is incompetent. It is amazing some people like you believe this book as words from God. Is God too stupid to create such book?
To help understanding the verses in the Koran, fortunately, there are hadiths. Hadiths are the reports of the sayings and actions of God’s messanger Mohammad. There are 70 thousand of hadiths including 7000 of so called sahih hadiths. The hadiths are reported by people who are moslems, companions, and followers of Mohammed. They must be true since they are reported by people who love him. Mohammad is a true example how Islam should be practiced.
So if one does not understand the verse in the Koran saying “beat you wife” and doubt it, does not know what it means, has doubt about it, he/she should search it by how Mohammed explain it or implement it. And Voila, there it is, when the Koran says “beat your wife”, Mohammed indeed beat his wife so that his child wife almost could not breath. You could find that hadith easily if you want.
When the Koran says, “fight your enemy, whereever you find them”, Mohammad did that, he killed people even when they have been surrendered. You want to know his war coward tactic? Read more hadiths, he could suddenly attack unarmed people cowardly without warning.
Worse, he “married” the nicest girl he lusted for which was the wife of the killed one, at the very night after his husband was killed by Mohammad. I do not make it up, it is there in hadiths.
People like you, who blind yourself, will say that “when the Koran say beat your wife”, it does not really beat, or beat your wife with a toothbrush. It is trully a pathetic desperate apologetic explanation. Did Mohammed beat his poor child wife Aisha with a small toothbrush? No. He did it with his own hand and he beat her hard so that she almost could not breath. Please do not fool yourself.
Do you have a wife mohammad?
If you are not happy with her, will you just leave her alone and do not beat her to follow what Mohamad did to Aisha?Cheers
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@EH
The Quran is clear and there is no doubt about it. It is a guidance for mankind. It is perfect as it covers way more than any other religious books yet is much smaller than all of them.
The hadith support the Quran and explain things in it. The Quran was not meant to be revealed as a standalone book. Otherwise there would be no use for the Prophet (pbuh)
So many people have claimed there are ambiguities and contradictions only to be proven wrong.
One can comprehend the Quran just by reading it however for a fuller and more complete understand of reasons of revelations, situations were laws should be applied etc one needs to refer to other texts such as the hadith. Like my example about a brain surgeon you cannot become one just by reading a book without doing the study and hard work.
The Quran is unstructured a you say because it provides a lot of information in such a small book. However it flows well going from one story to the next making it all fit and complement each other.
Were you lie is the following
Mohammed indeed beat his wife so that his child wife almost could not breath. You could find that hadith easily if you want.
firstly the hadith does not refer to beating in any way. Secondly it does not refer to Aisha being a child thirdly the translation uses the word “struck” instead of “Push” witch is the correct translation of the arabic word “lahada” used in the hadith. The actual proper translation of this part of the hadith is “He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore”
The other thing is there are only a few tafsirs out there but many translations. Translations do not explain the Quran using the hadith they change translate the words from one language to another. It definitely loses its meaning when it is not in arabic.
“fight your enemy, whereever you find them”, Mohammad did that, he killed people even when they have been surrendered.
Why don’t you provide us proof for this claim.
Worse, he “married” the nicest girl he lusted for which was the wife of the killed one
Again were is your proof.
People like you, who blind yourself, will say that “when the Koran say beat your wife”, it does not really beat, or beat your wife with a toothbrush. It is trully a pathetic desperate apologetic explanation. Did Mohammed beat his poor child wife Aisha with a small toothbrush? No. He did it with his own hand and he beat her hard so that she almost could not breath. Please do not fool yourself.
Your an idiot. The hadith is clear and easy to find. He clearly didn’t beat her. I have a wife and I don’t beat her. If Islam really said to do this then I would have done it but I understand better than that.
Anyway it doesn’t take a book to tell you to beat your wife. Many men do that today already and they are not even Muslims. So your point with this issue is a waste of time.
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Mohammed
Too late. Now he is one of Us
Us and Them, like the Pink Floyd record. Isn’t this what Islam is and always has been about?
Sometimes when I am praying in a meeting room and they are going to have a meeting they wait politely until I am finished.
At the gates in Jakarta airport on a Friday afternoon non-muslims are also politely requested to go and wait elsewhere until prayer is finished. If you miss your plane, too bad.
In fact I have more in common with my boss who is a strict catholic than he has with all the other workers who most of are not practicing. This is why me an him get along real good.
How come I’m not surprised? Birds of a feather.
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Mohammed
LOL
You guys are funny. Accusations without proof are useless. As for the Prophet of Doom page I have read the whole thing before. If it isn’t the biggest joke that I have seen. Even a non muslim can see what this writer has tried to do.
Thanks ET, Endo and Suryo for the great laugh. I needed this since I had a tough day at work.
Your reaction is the best publicity Prophet of Doom can get cause it seems to have struck a raw nerve.
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@dhea
Ok so how do you know this? Like I said in one of my previous posts I have many convert friends and they all read the Quran fully before they accepted Islam.
Starting last weekend and going for the next 3 weeksends we here in Brisbane Australia have an introduction course for converts. There are currently 44 new Muslims attending this course. They have all read the Quran. Nobody forced it upon them or tricked them. Most of them just out of curiosity they looked into Islam. Nearly all of them said that had you asked them about Islam before they would have said they would never accept a barbaric religion well they did all on there own. Guess what. 28 of them are women not married or there with there partner who also became Muslim.
@Endo Hanafi
Were in the world did you learn to reason. It was clear what I posted. I did not water down anything and I don’t deny that the Quran talks about violence war and killing. But it is clear if you read the verses you quoted with the verses before and after what they are talking about.
What you are doing is sound bitting or snippeting. You pick a small part of and entire story and use this to prove your point. This is the most ridiculous thing that people against Islam do. You as a person are probably a nice person but when it comes to attacking a faith you seem to lie maybe ignorantly and keep pushing the same points over and over again even though non-Muslims them selves clearly see through this without having people like me to try and prove your lies.
I don’t do this for you. You can make up all the things you want or misquote anything you want but there are people out there that don’t know anything about Islam and instead of doing the research they will just hate it based on what you said. This is wrong. They need to know the truth and both sides of the story before they can make judgment. Clearly you wouldn’t like this because of the things that you concerning what I said.
I promised myself that I would not let forums and people like you take up my time in trying to rectify your misunderstandings but maybe I prefer to correct lies when I see them because I may understand something that you don’t.