Bromo Tengger Converts to Islam
Mar 2nd, 2009, in News, by Patung
Some of the last holdouts against Islam on Java convert under the guidance of Hidayatullah.
On 1st March 2009 at Tempuran, Senduro, Lumajang, East Java 70 Muslim converts (mualaf) from the Tengger ethnic group (suku Tengger) were married in a mass ceremony.
The 70 people were part of a group of 227 Tengger people that had converted from Hinduism to Islam in mid 2007. Previously the 70 had been married according to Hindu rites, however these marriages were not officially registered or recognised.
They originate from Wonocempoko Ayu, Argosari, and Burno in Senduro, about 8km from Mt Bromo. 400 people from these villages have converted to Islam in recent years.
Zeigeist 1, Majapahit 0.
One man, Suyanto, said bmh.or.id
Wow, I’ve been married twice but with the same wife. Before I married according to another religion, now in the Islamic way. I’m so happy to be married within Islam after saying the confession of faith last year.
The Islamic marriages were organised by the fundamentalist group Hidayahtullah and the Lumajang local government. The couples paid nothing. Samsudin from Hidayatullah said: detik
So, people who convert to Islam will have their weddings paid for by Hidayahtullah.
Tenggerese are generally Hindu and traditionally live around or near Mt Bromo, and consider themselves to be direct descendants of the rulers of the last Hindu kingdom of Java, Majapahit. See “Hindu Javanese: Tengger Tradition and Islam” by Robert W. Hefner, Amazon, Google Books.
228 Comments on “Bromo Tengger Converts to Islam”
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Brother Mohammed,
What a great Arab prophet he was!
In Indonesia, we have someone as benevolent and inspirational, and he was our great King Joyoboyo. He was Javanese and a just ruler. You can learn more about him from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayabaya
Wasalam.
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@ Endo Hanafi & Dhea,
Brother Mohammed is not here to proselytise anyone. I believe he is an Arab and he is entitled to be nationalistic and stay put with Islam. Arab’s greatest prophet had sex with a preteen girl and it was well documented in all hadithes. If that didn’t raise eyebrows, none of you should be sticky beaks about Middle Eastern culture. It is afterall a virtuous thing in the Arab world. Certainly sex with underage children was and is frowned in Eastern cultures, we Asian should worry about our chuildren being exploited.
As for the 2 of you, if you are Arabs and not a moslems, you are hypocrites. Javanese hate traitors.
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Mr Tic Tac Toe says:
Brother M:
How quickly people forget about the Crusades
How quickly you forget that it was moslem world that attack the christian europe first, 300 year earlier than the crusades, and has been a constant military threat for the next 1000 years.
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Mohammed says:
I am not nationalistic (this is not islamic) and marying young girls was even normal under jewish and christian and pagan cultures. Even in afriacan tribes.
I do not personally agree with it. One of the 2 marriages that the prophet Muhammad was ordered by God to do was marry Aisha. How do you think her father felt about this. He didn’t even question it becuase he knew his daughter was going to be with the best person to ever walk the face of the earth. The outcome of this marriage is clear in what she brought to Islam and all the Hadiths she quoted… and yes it was documented because there was nothing to hide. it was a legitimate marriage and he loved her till the day he died.
You all come up with all these coments without any knowledge about the situation what so ever. Back then girls that age where already doing what women at the age of 30 are doing today. There was a big difference in maturity and responsibilities between then and now.
If you want to question this then why don’t you question the following sex abuse by the thousands of priests around the world is up and continues growing.. What a joke is that but yet people still can’t accept that Muhammad married a young girl.
Click the above link and read the articles that where in the news and have been non stop for weeks now.
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sex abuse by the thousands of priests around the world is up and continues growing.. What a joke is that but yet people still can’t accept that Muhammad married a young girl.
So, you are confirming that your prophet’s whole wisdom and holiness is only as good as abusive christian priests(?)
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How quickly you forget that it was moslem world that attack the christian europe first, 300 year earlier than the crusades, and has been a constant military threat for the next 1000 years.
I didn’t forget nor do I deny it. However the Muslims did it for reason such as freeing slaves stopping oppression and pre-emtive attacks to stop them from being attacked as it was already known that the persians and romans where trying to get Muhammad and the following Khalifs to be under them.
They didn’t go into a country and kill everyone including anmials and destroy everything. People were free to live under Islam anyway they wanted. They were not forced to become Muslims as the Muslims were forced to become Christian.
I think you need to look at the non biased view of historians and you will come to the same conclusion.
They recently made the movie kingdom of heaven and did you see how they portrayed the Muslims. This was about the crusades but because they didn’t want to make all the Christians look bad and they wanted to make it seem like it was only some they had to bend the truth about. But they portrayed the Muslims alsmost close to the true story.
and see what historians say about this.
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No I am confirming that he did what he was ordered by God. And he did it in the right way. He didn\’t molest or rape her. He didn\’t treat her any differently than any man would treat his wife.
You have this issue with this one thing that you clearly don\’t understand. She even narrates the details of their relationship. Don\’t you think if she felt this was wrong when she grew up that she would have clearly stated this. She was a wise person for her age. The showed in her early years. She would give his companions religious lessons and fatwas. She taught a great many people.
No father would give their daughter to any man even if they are older girls. But her father clearly didn\’t have a problem with it.
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diego says:
Mi hermano Mahoma,
I’m glad that you are disseminating the correct information about Islam.
I just heard that Osama (PBUH) called indonesia “negara sesat” (lost nation).
http://www.detiknews.com/read/2009/03/15/065614/1099525/10/osama-bin-laden-sebut-indonesia-sesat
I feel sadenned. I think Osama is right. We need to get out of the status “negara sesat” quickly. I think Islamic syariah laws can help a lot there.
Do you have any idea on how to accelerate syariahization of indonesia?
Muchas gracias hermano. Que Allah te bendiga.
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dhea says:
Wow Mohammed and Aluang I guess both of you just simply pick and choosing surah thats very convenience isn’t it. That applied on what you believe as the greatest religious in the world. grandted whatever you believe and stop shoving your believe to anyone else. I don’t want to argue more because never finished trust me than at the end you will said that I’m hypocrite or muslim hater and bla bla bla. Wow you don’t even know me.I don’t hate your religious but I did find the truth about it by my self. So thank you for your enlightment but I don’t need it.There is no justification because it’s writen black and white as well we all know that your holly book be protected and claim on pure because never changes, I wouldn’t want to go and on and on debating it. If you believe in it good for you. Do you ever ask yourself both of you reading whole the holly book or part of it and pick and choose to prove it. Also why more and more destructive behavior around the world in fact commited by Islamic Jihad. Do you ever questioning why they do that and what that driven that kind of behavior? Why still alot of muslim woman oppress in middle eastern and some part in Asia. Why in Saudi Arab they need to have Religious Police ? By the way prophet was enganging sexual act with his wife aisha at age 9 yrs old wow not even puberty yet.
Quote from Aluang
As for the 2 of you, if you are Arabs and not a moslems, you are hypocrites. Javanese hate traitors.They call freedom act Mr Aluang I don’t just believe as gulable as you are probably btw I do my work and research so I came up with my conclusion.
Quote from Aluang Anak Bayang
“Arab’s greatest prophet had sex with a preteen girl and it was well documented in all hadithes. If that didn’t raise eyebrows, none of you should be sticky beaks about Middle Eastern culture. It is afterall a virtuous thing in the Arab world. Certainly sex with underage children was and is frowned in Eastern cultures, we Asian should worry about our chuildren being exploited.”Just wondering , what is your point. Are you critized your own prophet about married underage girl? Humm
You said it kind of confused isn’t it. -
However the Muslims did it for reason such as freeing slaves stopping oppression and pre-emtive attacks to stop them from being attacked as it was already known that the persians and romans where trying to get Muhammad and the following Khalifs to be under them.
(Are sure it wasnt just paranoia?)
So if there is a “reason” that can be justified in your eyes, it is okay to attack first, but if somebody reacted after 300 years constant threat from you, you call yourselves victims?
And how was the freeing trade bussiness going? I remembered that imam bonjol was a slave trader AND a fundamentalist, a thousand years after that. Ah, i guess that was just apocryphal excuse to please present audience, eh?
And about “the romans and persians” thing, wasnt europe just a decadent and petty society which just get out of the plaque that time? How could they be a threat? and dude, french was FAR, why couldnt you let those poor people be?
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Good point Mr Tic Tac Toe
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dhea,
It is obvious you are a newcomer here.
Let me give a welcome speech for you: bienvenido.
Now, it is required for you to say extended-syahadah (in arabic) before you can post another comment(s): “atestiguo que no hay dios excepto Allah y que Muhammad es el mensajero de Allah…, y AAB siempre, siempre, tiene toda la razon”.
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Thank you Diego my bad forgive me for that. Anyhow very interesting topic and I say Hi to everyone including Mohammed and Aluang. LOL
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You have this issue with this one thing that you clearly don\’t understand.
No dude. I dont have issue with that, for all i care, as a victorious leader of ancient times, he can marry the entire population of arabic peninsula, God willing. And he didnt actually even need a godly-excuse for that.
Im just pointing out that you only made him comparable to mere abusive priests. But thank you for that insightful information.
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Brother Mohammed,
I am on your side.
I am not nationalistic (this is not islamic) and marying young girls was even normal under jewish and christian and pagan cultures. Even in afriacan tribes.
Jews and Arabs? What is the difference? They both originated from the Middle East. Black African had not produced any great culture. Sex with underage may be great in your area, but not to cultured Asians like the Javanese.
I do not personally agree with it. One of the 2 marriages that the prophet Muhammad was ordered by God to do was marry Aisha….
To disagree is unislamic. I see you wavering in your faith. I am a Javanese moslem myself, and of course, I fully agree with their explanation. Prophet Mohammad pbuh was innocent by all account. It is afterall Allah swt who ordered him to deflower 9 years ols Aisha. Christians like Mr Tic Tac Toe, Endo Hanafi & Dhea would not understand.
How do you think her father felt about this. He didn’t even question it becuase he knew his daughter was going to be with the best person to ever walk the face of the earth.
Brother, if you are a real moslem, please do not spread false rumour about Abu Bakr (Aisha’s father). You are giving Christians and Islamophobes ammunitions to embarrass us with authentic hadith documentations. Abu Bakr was not aware initially, but the prophet explained it was Allah swt who ordered him.
The hadith below explains it all:
Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated ‘Ursa:The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for ‘Aisha’s hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said “But I am your brother.” The Prophet said, “You are my brother in Allah’s religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry.”Abu Bakr was shocked at first which was why he exclaimed, “But I am your brother.”
It didn’t look like Abu Bakr was aware, or did it?
You all come up with all these coments without any knowledge about the situation what so ever. Back then girls that age where already doing what women at the age of 30 are doing today. There was a big difference in maturity and responsibilities between then and now.
A 6 or 9 years old girl were doing what today’s 30 years old are doing?!! You are giving the non-moslem ammunitions to question what the prophet at 54 years old would be back then.
Brother, please refrain from using stupid unfounded explanation. We should not be embarrassed by what is halal and sanctioned by Allah swt. The explanation to non-moslems should be:
Allah swt sanctioned it, so what.
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Quote Aluang
You are giving Christians and Islamophobes ammunitions to embarrass us with authentic hadith documentations. Abu Bakr was not aware initially, but the prophet explained it was Allah swt who ordered him.
This is my point is always justification so anything are wrong in normal human mind will be justify because he is the holly man for crying it loud.
Granted I told you so.Abu Bakr was not aware initially, but the prophet explained it was Allah swt who ordered him.
Is this also the reason why syeikh Puji married 11 yrs old girl ? hmmmmmmmm
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Mbak Dhea yth,
Is this also the reason why syeikh Puji married 11 yrs old girl ? hmmmmmmmm
Yes. Pujiono explained that he was emulating Islam’s Prophet Muhammad. Are you jealous?
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Are you kidding with me ? heck no just feel sorry.
You probably have many wife too is that so good for you. -
ET says:
Mohammed
One of the 2 marriages that the prophet Muhammad was ordered by God to do was marry Aisha.
Allah ordered me to marry Beyoncé but she won’t listen. How dare she refuse Allah’s order? Is she doomed now?
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Allah swt sanctioned it, so what.
Exactly my point.
Brother M.
Its a matter of faith, and faith only. Its unfalsifiable, so stop making lame excuses on why you did it, or trying to rationalize things that you believe.So if God wants to be 1 today or 3 tommorow or 330 millions next week, or ceased to exist altogether yesterday, whats the point of trying to find rational excuse for it or to criticize it? And who are you to limit what God can and cannot do?
All we need to care is what you do because of your faith:
You attacked somebody 1300 years ago to spread your religion, and 1000 years ago somebody retaliated. So stop crying about it already, you never were the victims.You proselytise, now give others the chance to do the same to your people, whether christians or atheists or some obscure samoan religion followers. Dont be so hypocritical about it.
Tit for tat,
quid pro quo,Justice.
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@ ET
Your motive here is to discredit Islam. If you have nothing better to say, Javanese wisdom is to zip up, otherwise you make a fool of yourself.
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Endo Hanafi says:
We do not need other sources to prove Islam fallacy but Koran and hadits
@Mohamed,
I smiled broadly reading your reply. Your answer is really a typical defensive moslem way when they are trying to defend the undefendable. I heard it many times and do not buy it. Here are some examples to describe how “peaceful and tolerant” Islam is:
8:12 “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them ”
3:28 “Let not the believers take for friends or helpers Unbelievers”
4:84, “Then fight in Allah’s cause” (which is killing other human being, why Islamic God is so mean?)
8:17, “It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah” (Blood thirst God)
8:65, “O Prophet! Rouse the Believers to the fight”.
9:5, “Then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them,”
9:14, “Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame”
9:23, “O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith”
9:28, “O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean”
9:29, “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day”
9:123, “O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you”
47:4, “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks; At length”
3:85, “If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good)”.
There are many more verses promote violence and hatred like these in Koran. You can see, this sick GOD is full of hatred. Oh i know what you are doing to say, that it is out of context? They are only apply for certain time and situation? Please dont fool yourself, there is no explanation in Koran and hadits that they are only apply for certain period of time. I want to see a koran verse or hadits that explain this.
If you think these Mohamed’s imaginary God verses are not contextual anymore since they are only applicable only in certain time and situation, it reflects that not all Koran’s verses are applicable now. Why pick and choose? Why not frankly and honestly admit that the whole Koran is not applicable now? Why said those verses you do not like out of context and verses you like as word from Allah that must be obeyed?
What do you think inspire all violence acts from FPI or Imam Samudra, Amrozi, and other moslem terrorist? It is Koran that inspire them. I know what you going to answer, they are not a true moslems? That was i thought before, all violence moslems are not true moslems, until I read and carefully learn Koran and hadits. It is indeed Koran and hadits are the root problem, it teachs violence and hatred.Koran is merely a fiery silly story book from early time. It is easy for someone who read history to see Koran is simply a cut and paste type of book. Mohamed shoud have taken the verses from Torah, testament, or create his own imaginary stories. He used his God to fulfill his needs and desires, including to have sex with a minor. He simply stated that God wanted him to marry Aisha. Come on, what God has to do with his infedelity desires? Think about it.
I can go on and on with this to show you how good is “Islam holy book”. However, my point of coming and writing here is to appeal for Tenggerians and those Indonesians who are thinking of converting to Islam. Please think again, learn Islam from Koran and hadits and you will see the true color of Islam which is so dirty.
Do not listen to Mohamed or others who will try to show you “peaceful” face of Islam. You do not need to listen to me, either. All you have to do is learn Islam yourselves by learning it from its authentic and “untainted” source, Koran dan hadits.
Frankly, I actually have no time to discuss this. It is the story of the newly converts Tenggerians who attracts my attention. Sekali lagi, jangan sampai tertipu kawan-kawan, untuk mengenal wajah Islam yg asli cukup membaca Al-quran dan hadis.
Oh, I need to do laundry and some house chores now.
Merdeka!
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Lairedion says:
Mohammed,
I always thought Muslims believe the Qu’ran is literally the word of God, absolutely and unquestionably true for all times, places, and people. But you’re saying:
It refers to certain situations that occured at the time or to certain situations where a government is corrupt or oppressive.
So in certain times and situations the Qu’ran is not necessarily valid. Basically you’re questioning your own beliefs.
Here’s a glorious statement that sums up the stupidity a lot of Muslims seem to suffer from:
You all come up with all these coments without any knowledge about the situation what so ever. Back then girls that age where already doing what women at the age of 30 are doing today. There was a big difference in maturity and responsibilities between then and now.
Reminds me of Zahrah in the Shia Islam thread who said:
ladies in Saudi Arabia and warm countries get to their puberty at the age of 9 in contrast with cold countries such as russia that girls meet their puberty at the age of 17.ET,
Yes, she’s doomed. You are too because I haven’t seen you attend last Friday prayer in Masjid An Nur in Denpasar.
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schmerly says:
@ AAB..
if you have nothing better to say, Javanese wisdom is to zip up
Hand me that old cracked record, I just want to play it again.
otherwise you make a fool of yourself
And being an expert at making a fool of oneself you would know wouldn’t you?
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DumadiSatrio says:
@Pak AAB,
I wouldnt worry, maybe Sabdapalon and Sri Mapanji Jayabaya will be back to straighten this all up….Then we’ll all feel silly for all this arguing.
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Cukurungan says:
Frankly, I actually have no time to discuss this. It is the story of the newly converts Tenggerians who attracts my attention. Sekali lagi, jangan sampai tertipu kawan-kawan, untuk mengenal wajah Islam yg asli cukup membaca Al-quran dan hadis.
Kenapa harus menipu kalo kami umat islam sudah bisa memaksa para pembenci Islam hanya bisa menangis, onani dan cuman berani bersuara di balik internet….
ok….ok…kasihan deh nasib lu -
PrimaryDrive says:
To be honest I find it sometimes quite annoying that people post baiting pretend-texts. Perhaps the authors find it amusing when people take the baits. I find this disrespectfull towards others.
But, perhaps the problem is just mine, for obviously lacking certain types of humor. I just wish I can cofigure this blog-view so that I can filter out cluttering pretend-authors…
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@diego I don’t know what Usama said about indonesians since it is only mentioned in indonesian media and I have not heard this before. People have there opinions and that is not my problem. I also don’t read indo.
@dhea we don’t pick and choose what we want. Yes I have read and studyed the Quran. What I chose to quote was to prove that if God was blood thirsty like suggested then he wouldn’t have revealed veres such as those. You claim that you don’t want to argue about it but you bring up all theses different subjects in your post. I think your ignorance really shows about your understaning of Islam. For example the Jihad around the world is justified in some places and not in others. Eg. 9/11 was totally unjustified, Palestine is totally justified. If you cannot see this then you are just as ignorant as many of the people out there. Just because some people use Islam to further there agenda does not mean that Islam itself allows this.
What clearly shows you amazing ignorance when you talk about opperessed women. The fact that 80% of people that convert to Islam are women. Watch there videos here and see what they say about Islam. These are just a small percentage of the stories that can be found over the internet. When someone in the middle east oppresses there women or around the world you think this is because of Islam which is completely and utterly untrue. Before Islam women where being oppressed. Today in Australia were I live non-muslim women are oppressed and beaten all the time that they constantly have to show commercials for wome to come forward and speak to the police to get help. So don’t think that this is Islamic behaviour. It is male behaviour.
@Mr tic tac toe It wasn’t parinoa. You need to go and do some research as this is a big topic. The fact is that most non muslims where happy to live under Muslim Rule than there own rulers. Becuase they enjoyed rights under Islam that they didn’t have under their own kings and rulers. I will not go into it here because you can find alot of information about this by both Muslim and non muslims. Plus I think you will never accept this no matter who tells you the facts.
As for the freeing if slaves Islam stopped it. If there where Muslims that continued to do this just like there are muslims that do things like drink alcohol or have se outside of marriage this is not Islams fault. This is the peoples fault. You fail to see that you are very confused as many other people here are about what Islam teaches and what Muslims choose to do. They are to different things unless the Muslims follow Islam correctly which unfortunately to say there are alot out there that don’t.
People say they don;t have an issues with things that they quote then why quote them why even mention them. I didn’t make it comparable to priest of today. I completely showed the oppoosite. If you can’t see the difference then that is your problem.
BTW I am not making lame excusses. I am trying to set your lies straight. If you can’t see the fact that I have a right to defend my religion against the accusations that you and others make. Unfortunately there are to many accusations which I don’t have the time to properly refute at this point. But I have been studying Islam for more than 6 years now and just like many Non-muslims who have come to Islam I have found the truth. Look at Cat Steven, Skip Estes (former minister who completely and unterly hated Islam and his priest friends) and the thousands of well known non Muslims that have become Muslims. You can read his story hear or see him explain it in a video. I used to have the same issues that you have about the wars and fighting. I we as normal people always look at the bad things and never look at the good things. An example is I had an operation a few months ago and everywhere I was researching nothing but bad comments around about this procedure. Upon speaking to the surgeon again he re assured me that he does close to 300 of these operations a year and not one person has ever complained. He said nobody ever speaks about the good but about the bad. He was 100% right. Within 1 week I was feeling 130% better than I was before the operation.
You are wrong about me proselytising. I don’t do that. I try to dispel the false accusation that you put forward about Islam. The fact is you don’t even do that. All you do is attack Islam to try and get Muslims to hate it not teach your belief to get them to accept it. I try and rectify your mistakes so that people will understand Islam. It is not upto me to convert people but Allah, and He seems to be doing a fantasic job of that considering all the negative media about Islam around the world yet still 100’s of thousands become Muslims in the Western world every year. I am proud to say that most of my friends today are Muslim converts which have outnumbered my born Muslim freinds.
@Brother Aluang Anak Bayang I think you made some comments that made you seem like you are against it. You seem to misunderstand me. I said it was a common thing in those days. I didn’t say it is today or even anymore. Times change and culture changes. This had nothing to do with Islam except for the Fact that the Prophet (pbuh) was ordered to do it. There was wisdom behind it and it is a huge topic.
I haven’t waivered in my faith and I didn’t disagree with it. I think you seem to misunderstand me. I disagree with it in this day and age because it is not part of culture anymore. I compeletly agree and accept the Qadr of Allah. Unlike you brother I do not call my self and Australian Muslim or Arab Muslim. I am Muslim. There is no such thing as nationalism in Islam and if you want to use who you are when people ask you then say I am a Muslim Javaniese. Muslim always comes first before anything else.
I am not spreading lies or falseties. Did Abu Bakr accept this or not? I didn’t say he kew about it to start of with. But when he was told about it he accepted it. He is called As-Siddiq because he accepted everything that came from the Prophet without any questions.
I am not embarrassed at all but what the prophet did. This is fact in all cultures not just Islam. As time goes buy men and women seem to become more immature and childish. Look today you have men 40 years and over playing computer games going from girfriend to girfriend etc. Life isn’t stable like it used to be were boys as young as 12 where leading armies.
@Lairedion No the Quran is the literal word of God but it certain things apply to certain situations and times. For example the surah about Abu lahab the uncle of the prophet. How does it apply to today. The only thing you get from this for today is that your wealth an offspring will not save you in the end, but the punishment for him and his wife are specific to them. There is a huge science behind the explination of the Quran. It is simple people like that see it as black and white.
@Endo Hanafi clearly you don’t understand the concept of Tafsir and edict of Fiqh. Well you seem to be the one that is picking and choosing your verses.
Here are the answers to you acusations. Obviously you take what you read yourself without understanding the reasons behind it and just accept it. I think the following really explains these very well and more.
http://norasensation.wordpress.com/2008/10/16/misquoted-violent-verses-in-the-holy-quran/
http://www.i-keighley.com/commonly-misquoted-quran-verses.php#quote-one
MAN I LOVE BEING A MUSLIM 🙂
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Islam recognizes no religious freedom
@Mohammed,
You are deeply lost. Islam is the fastest growing religion? That is a myth and false statement. The moslems grow because they give births more. The converts are mostly women because they marry moslems males who succesfully present the “peaceful face” of Islam and hide the dominant ugly parts. Most of the converts, feel sorry later after finding the truth. If you are a convert and keep looking for the truth, I am sure, you too, will feel sorry later of becoming a moslem. One thing, statistic can not reveal, is the number people leaving Islam. More and more people leaving Islam but are not able to declare it since leaving Islam is considered the biggest sin (Koran even say, muslim may kill the murtads). There is no religious freedom in Islam which means you may convert in and leave any time freely. In Islam you may go in, but there is no way out! A trap.
I do not have any idea why you bring the issue of tafsr and figh here. Are you saying that to understand the sentence ““Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks; At length” or “killing”, we need a tafsr and fiqh? See, again you contradict Islam and yourself here. After saying that certain verses are limited to time and situation, now you are saying to understand the word “killing” we need to learn the concept of fiqh. It is absolutely contradict the Koran’s claim as a “clear” book. The verses I put forward are only a fraction of many more Koran verses promoting hatred and violence. Killing is killing, Mohamed. Is that too difficult to understand?
Islam indeed oppresses women. In, so called, Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, pakistan, or Iran, you will not see the women appears in 6 o’clock news telling their stories of being beaten. That bacause the Islamic government system does not protect the women rights. The women in western countries do have that rights, they know what to do if are beaten by their husband, where to report, and by law have government protections which women in Islamic countries do not enjoy. Do you know, women even are not allowed to drive in Iran or Arab Saudi?
FYI, It is so difficult to bring to justice the rapers in Arab saudi because they apply silly Islamic law stating, it takes two witnesses to prove a rape indeed take place. If you are a raper, will you announce it first so people gather to witness what you are going to do? It is a total non-sense law. Todays forensic knowldege could easily find an evident to criminalize a raper but with Islamic law, we go backward to middle age barbaric time. Is that what you want when you say we need shari’a law? You want also to apply stoning to death law? That is the most sick cruel punishment i’ve ever seen. Only people with sick mind enjoy watching stoning to death punishment, watching another human being suffer to his/her slow–slowww death. You call it God law, I call it, sick cruel torture who only sick man could enjoy it. If you have stomach, just watch youtube. Few videos made in Taliban era are so graphic so the youtube adminstrator have to stop them.
Btw, the surah demanding muslim to have stoning punishment is not in the Koran, they forgot to put it in. Some hadith says that it was forgoten coz a goat has eaten the paper where it was written…:).
Mohammed, do you have a baby girl? Will you give your 7 y.o baby girl to a 54 year old man, after he says God give him order to marry your 7 year old baby girl?
For Tenggerians or people who are thinking of converting to Islam, think again!
Cheers
Comment on “Bromo Tengger Converts to Islam”.
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@Endo Hanafi
It is sad to hear you say that because clearly you base it on certain hadiths and verses in the Quran that were revealed for certain situations and places. You may have read through the Hadith and Quran but if you don’t know the meanings behind things then you will never understand or accept that it makes sense to do certain things. For example when the Quran talks about the fighting of non muslims. It refers to certain situations that occured at the time or to certain situations where a government is corrupt or oppressive. Plus you probably only searched for these like many people who are against Islam they try to find the bad and ignore the Good even though in reality it is all good and all from Allah. You can take things out of context and try to make them look bad but you quickly fall on your behind when you are correct and turn your head put your tail between your legs and walk away to try and find something else.
When Islam expanded it did it various methods such as war, trade and dawah.
But with the exception of one Khalif not one non-muslim was killed neadlessy or forced to convert. Infact that one khalif is fround upon by many Muslims and his successor hepled rebuilt Churches that he destroyed and other places of worship and buildings.
There is no such thing as this love everybody attitude that Christians have. If someone came into your house to rape your family are you telling me you would stand around and let him do that? Of course not you will do everything you can to defend them even if it means killing him.
In fact most non muslims who read the Quran and Hadith would completely disagree with your assumptions about Allah and Muhammad pbuh.
I can prove you wrong rigt now. You can see everywhere in the Quran were it talks about peace, love, charity, harmony and even the war verses always end in do not start the wars and if fighting stops then you should stop because Allah does not love aggretion and war and violence. But sometimes it is justified. How quickly people forget about the Crusades and other wars around the world through the thousands of years that had nothing to do with Islam or Allah or Muhammad. This is the humans nature however Allah provides guildelines so that people don’t abuse it just like America did with the atom bomb or the crusaders did when they took Jerusalem killing Muslim, Christian and Jew alike.
Provide me with one example in the Quran and hadith that show that Allah is “Cruel and Blood thirsty and Muhammad is a power thirsty individual”. I garuntee you that you can’t and if you try to I garuntee that I can prove to you from valid source that you either have the wrong understanding or are just trying to lie to people to make Islam look bad becuase you have some kind of grudge or hatred for it for some reason.
If Allah was like this then why would he make fasting and charity compulsory on every Muslim? Why would he say there is no compulsion in religion? Why would he constantly talk against oppression in the Quran and say that it is worse than death. Why are there punishments for murder and theft. Allah says :
Quran Surah 103
By (the Token of) Time (through the ages), Verily Man is in loss, Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
Infact Muhammad died with little more than the close on his back even though he was the ultimate ruler at the end of his times. In a hadith when asked why doesn’t he get him self decent accomodation and furniture like kings and other rulers and he replied they have what Allah has given them and I have what Allah has given me. All the money he got after wars and whatever gifts he would recieve he always donated to those who need it like the poor. Even the few coins he had on his death bed he asked his wife to donate to charity. By the end of his rule he had almost stamed out slavery and not long after there the following rulers had completely gotten rid of it.
Sometimes he and his family would go for days without food even though the whole Muslim community the rich and the poor and bait al Mal (house of money) could have supplied him with more than any other ruler on this earth.
I ask you how did he use his gained power? How did he use his gained money? Ask Michael hart the Christian historian who choice Muhammad as the number 1 most influential person ever. He even said he so badly wanted to put Jesus their but he had to be fair and realistic and he is a truthful man so he chose Muhammad (pbuh).
Look at the life of Abu Bakar, Umar Ibn Alkhatab, Uthaman, Ali. The khalifs that came after Muhammad and had an even bigger empire under them. Their stories are so amazing. They still lived poor and refused to eat even meat (which is pretty much what they had at that time if their people where not able to eat it) compare them to the kings and rulers of today. Look at the pope. See how he lives surrounded by Gold, Silver, Ivory in his palace at the vatican. I don’t thing there are even kings today that live the life the pope does.
These Khalifs would spend the night out in the streets walking around and helping people. Even Umar cursed himself when he found a street that was not paved becuase it might cause a donkey to slip and break it’s leg or a child crying from hunger that he would personly go to the community stores fill a sack of food and carry it himslef to these people. Today kings and rulers and the pope don’t do anything by themselve. They might even have someone to feed them while they just sit there.
Uthman was leading his servant on a donkey to go to Jerusalem after it was captured, in torn and patched clothes to get the keys of the city which the ruler of Jerusalem at the time said he would only give it to Uthman. When his servant said you should be wearing better clothing and you should be riding the animal not me he was scolded by Uthman because Uthman only cared what Allah thought and not other people.
I think you are clearly prejudice by the fact that Islam enforces certain things upon you that you may not like so that is why you are trying to find reasons to go away from Islam.
Clearly you would not be able to provide any examples that you can justify and clearly what you are reading is either snippets provided by non muslims that hate Islam or you don’t have any understanding of these source and how to use them.
I feel sorry for you becuase you have convinced yourself something that is completely false and unjustafiable.