Barry Soetoro
Nov 6th, 2008, in Opinion, by Guest WriterBarry Soetoro aka Barack Obama’s Indonesian connection.
Former Menteng student now US President
Obama Barack has been democratically elected President of the US.
Quite an about face for the best democracy money can buy, in view of the Bush presidential se-lection.
But of course, corruption, collusion and nepotism is the sole monopoly of the Third World – or so the deluded denizens of the West repeat to themselves as they hug their knees, rocking back and forth – reminding themselves of how they uphold human rights equally across the board, entirely devoid of double-standards and totally oblivious to race, creed or religion.
Barrak Hussein Obama II was born to a white American Ann Dunham and Kenyan Barrak Hussein Obama Snr, in Nyang’oma Kogelo now in Kenya.
Here the Indonesian link starts.
Ann Dunham married in 1967 Lolo Soetoro, a Javanese, whose own father, in 1946 was killed along with his eldest brother were killed, after which the Dutch army burned down the family’s home. Soetoro fled with his mother into the countryside to survive. Incidentally yet more proof of Dutch war crimes – delibrate destruction of civilian property outside the scope of battle.
Pak Lolo Soetoro was an army geologist then later a government relations consultant for Mobil Oil. Obama describes Soetoro as well-mannered, even-tempered, and easy with people.
Barry Soetoro in Indonesia with mother Ann Dunham, step-father Lolo Soetoro, baby-sister Maya Soetoro-Ng.
From age 6 to 10, Obama lived in Jakarta. Age six, Obama attended the Catholic Primary St Francis di Assisi. Much was made of the lie he was educated in a Madrassa – or more accurately a pesantren – this of course was totally untrue. Obama Jnr later attended Model Primary School, Menteng and was registered as a Muslim – as his father was Muslim.
In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell my mother that I made faces during Koranic studies. My mother wasn’t overly concerned. ‘Be respectful,’ she’d say. In the Catholic school, when it came time to pray, I would close my eyes, then peek around the room. Nothing happened. No angels descended. Just a parched old nun and 30 brown children, muttering words.
One of “Berry’s” childhood friends was Adi who often visited “Berry’s” 16 Jalan Haji Ramli house. Speaking volumes of Dutch “development” at the time the road was of this established middle-class neighbourhood was a dirt lane where Obama used to wile away the hours kicking a soccer ball.
Adi recalled Obama and his friends wore plastic bags over their shoes to walk through the muddy street during the rainy seasons.
Neighborhood Muslims worshiped in a nearby house, which has since been replaced by a larger mosque. Sometimes, when the muezzin sounded the call to prayer, Lolo and Barry would walk to the makeshift mosque together, Adi said.
His mother often went to the church, but Barry was Muslim. He went to the mosque,” Adi said. “I remember him wearing a sarong.”
Obama spent most his spare time hanging out with Adi and other friends at the home of Yunaldi Askiar, a classmate. They used to play a kind of fencing game using sticks, kick a ball up and down the narrow dirt lanes or go swimming in the river behind the school, said Askiar, 42, a car mechanic.
Obama was taller and better dressed than most kids in classes where shoes and socks were still luxuries, so he stood out from the start. As an African American, and the only foreigner, he suffered racial taunts and teasing but never turned to violence.
“At first, everybody felt it was weird to have him here,” Israella Dharmawan, his first grade teacher said. “But also they were curious about him, so wherever he went, the kids were following him.”
His friends enjoyed playing tricks on Berry: Harmon ASki recalled,
“Sometimes we’d say, ‘Barry, do you want a chocolate?’ And we’d give him a chocolate. The next day we’d give him a chocolate again. The third time we’d give him terasi (fermented shrimp paste) wrapped up like chocolate. Obama didn’t get mad. He would laugh it off.”
Ann Soetoro moved to Yogyakarta, while Obama Jnr studied in Jakarta. She was inspired by Jogja village industries, which became the basis of her 1992 doctoral dissertation.
“She loved living in Java,” said Dr. Dewey, who recalled accompanying Ms. Soetoro to a metalworking village. “People said: ‘Hi! How are you?’ She said: ‘How’s your wife? Did your daughter have the baby?’ They were friends. Then she’d whip out her notebook and she’d say: ‘How many of you have electricity? Are you having trouble getting iron?’ ”
Dunham-Soetoro became a consultant for the United States Agency for International Development on setting up a village credit program, then a Ford Foundation program officer in Jakarta specializing in women’s work. Later, she was a consultant in Pakistan, then joined Indonesia’s oldest bank to work on what is described as the world’s largest sustainable microfinance program, creating services like credit and savings for the poor.
Obama in Hawaii with Maya and Ann and maternal grand-father, shortly after leaving Indonesia.
In his tellingly-titled Memoir, Dreams from My Father, Obama describes his Indonesian interlude as “one long adventure, the bounty of a young boy’s life”. But he also recalls being troubled by the poverty around him: “the empty look on the faces of farmers the year the rains never came,” and the desperation of the disabled beggars who came to the family’s door.
“The world was violent, I was learning, unpredictable and often cruel,” he writes. Obama and his mother thus we were very well acquainted with the harsh realities of indigenous Indonesians.
Fermina Katarina Sinaga, recalled yojhng Obama in her class: in the common task of class to write an essay titled “My dream: What I want to be in the future.” Obama “wrote ‘I want to be a president,’ ” she said. During a later writing assignment on family, he wrote, “My father is my idol.
The Indonesian connection for Obama and all that shaped him proving once again all things Javanese and indigenous Indonesian the bedrock for the towering monuments built on the foundations of a great civilisation.
1,047 Comments on “Barry Soetoro”
-
AlaskanInfidel says:
You insults and derision are so very typical of the childish liberal mind.
You take one comment and judge everyone here as beneath you based on that.
it must be nice to be so very enlightened that yo can comfortably pass jusdgment on everyone here in such a fashion.
u
Spectacularly ignorant…that’s you pal. Not us. I call that projection.I don’t “know” that Obama is not a US citizen. I don’t know for sure that he is either.
And you dare to call me a nutter? Do you blindly accept all that is told to you as truth? Do you ever dare to question authority? Do you have a mind of your own or do you just swallow whatever pablum you are fed by those in power? Is it truly impossible in your eyes that Obama may not have been born in the US? If so…I pity you. You’re life must be filled with the propaganda you are fed.
I’ll wager you believe in Anthropogenic Global Warming as well.you are a punk… you offer no counter argument, no debate…just insults and snobbery.
Piss off.
Offer something other than insults and you will be welcome, but I think you’re just a punk…a little bomb thrower that insults his betters and goes back to your land of Unicorns and Obambi.
I’m waiting….Obama is a liar and Truth is
killing his Marxist agenda. -
Rick fontes
“I feel that Mr. Obama hears a higher calling and truly believes that his vision for a world united against all the woes of mankind can only be achieved by America abandoning any pretense of being exceptional, ”Wow…that Kool aid yer drinkin’ must be laced with LSD.
American exceptionalism is not a pretense..it’s a fact. Deal with it.Idiot. Obama hates American exceptionalism, and clearly so do you.
That exceptionalism you decry freed and fed millions, spread Democracy and raised the standard of living for the whole planet.
Japan was defeated and is free. Germany was defeated and is free. The whole of Europe was saved by the US in WWII. Are you pissed about that as well? Should we have kept out of that fray? Would you enjoy being a good little Nazi? Iraq is free thanks to that which you call a pretense.
The US brought down the wall between East and West Germany, ended the slavery there. American exceptionalism brought that about. The list goes on. What country was defeated and made a colony of the US? Name one. You can’t. Twit…
Obama does not seek to level the playing field…he seeks to lower America to the level of other less free, less prosperous nations… Do you really think that’s a good thing? If so…you are clearly not an American, and would rejoice at the fall of our bastion of freedom in a world filled with the likes of Chavez, Castro, Ahmadinejad, Alaya, Putin and all the other dictators and tyrants that seek what you seek.Don’t get your hopes up for the destruction of America there moron. We have Obambi figured out. His choice of Czars and his own words are showing our Commie in Chief for what he is and even the most devoted of Obama boot lickers are no lponger happy with his plans for America.
He will fail…Thank God and Foxnews, Hannity, Limbaugh, Rusty Humphries, Mark Levin, Michelle Malkin, Glenn Beck and all the other Patriots that have the guts to speak out against tyranny…even soft tyranny.Obama is a liar and Truth is
killing his Marxist agenda. -
ew_keane says:
Since when did the term ‘nutter’ enter the american lexicon?
Isn’t that an insult they use in the UK?
Just asking. -
Rick Fontes says:
Alaskainfidel. Whoa. Slow down, podner. The “pretense of of american exceptionalism” was my projection into the apparent thought processes of Mr. Obama.
I am a member of the NRA. the Texas Rifle Association, a registered Republican although I vote independent, and while I believe in solving problems as peacefully as possible, I don’t take kindly to being lumped into the pinko, socialist camp.
Heck, man, I schedule my afternoon activities around Beck and Hannity.
I’m sorry that my poor attempt at making a case for the Constitution and against both the Democrat and Republican parties, as they are now constituted, was not clear enough.
I’ve never sampled LSD (except for Lone Star Draft) and I gave up Koolaid when I found out that it wasn’t a good mixer for any adult beverage.
My only “defense” of Obama is my fear that unseating him might cause more problems than it would solve. A better approach, in my opinion is to de-fang him in the election cycle of 2010.
My litany of national woes, recited in the earlier post, was to point out how the government has overstepped its authority throughout the history of our nation.
I believe that our founding fathers created a nation that was darn near perfect but that, over the centuries, human greed has subverted it into something that even they would rise up and rebel against all over again.
It may not be possible to recapture fully the Republic created by our founders but to do so should be the dream, hope and ambition of every true American. At least that’s my opinion.
Thanks for your input anyway. I suspect that we may have more in common than not.
-
Oigal says:
Ah Tim…You have missed some of the best bits..this is an absolute hoot of thread (would be better if we could get PPT, Cuk and some of other nutters to come and play as well.
A word of advice tho, for maximum effect. You need to read this sitting on the front porch, (preferably with a wrecked car in the front yard) wearing a checked flannel shirt with the “Cletus plays Banjos Greatest Hits” CD playing as mood music..Oh and nearly forgot..the clay flagon of moonshine with the confederate flag on the bottle 🙂
-
Gee normally I find myself defending the USA on this site but jeez these blokes make it interesting. I guess the most interesting thing is USA still manages to achieve such great things in spite of the loons, pretty impressive really.
Japan was defeated and is free. Germany was defeated and is free. The whole of Europe was saved by the US in WWII. Are you pissed about that as well? Should we have kept out of that fray? Would you enjoy being a good little Nazi?
Mmm This would be the World War that America refused to take part in until 1942. Germany is free?..Perhaps an acknowledgment of the millions of Russians and the millions Europeans that died might be worth a mention as without them it’s doubtful the American adventure would have been quite so successful.
As for Japan and Asia, well lads you were a bit late for that one as well. No doubt USA entry in the war (eventually) shaved several years off the war but I have some news for you, the Japanese were already at their limits and the tide had turned. In fact by the time you wackers got to PAPUA and Milne Bay the Japanese had already been turned back by reserve militia troops. As for Africa and the Middle East, were you blokes even there?
Shall I tell you another little Enigma..tic story about the war in Europe and who was responsible in large part for its success? Nagh..one illusion at a time.
Thank God and Foxnews, Hannity, Limbaugh, Rusty Humphries, Mark Levin, Michelle Malkin, Glenn Beck and all the other Patriots
TEE HEE Too easy!
the fall of our bastion of freedom in a world filled with the likes of Chavez, Castro, Ahmadinejad, Alaya, Putin and all the other dictators and tyrants
As opposed to the USA supported dictators such as Saddam Hussein (Iraq), Papa Shah of Iran, Sadat (Egypt) Our very own Suharto, Saud Royal Family (Saudi Arabia), Gen. Pervez Musharraf (Pakistan)… Now I could name at least 25 others without too much more research but the above are interesting in their own right. Each and every one demonstrates that the USA far from being the “light on the hill” for democracy was/is, in fact more than prepared to support evil when it suits them. In each and every case that support has come back to haunt them tenfold. So spare us the sanctimonious twaddle.
I still think that the world would be a far worse place without the USA but historically and worldly ignorant, xenophobics do the reputation of the USA no good and are a major reason why the least welcome visitor in virtually any country in the world is an American.
By the way, seeing how this is an Indonesian Website, any chance of you staunch defenders of democracy apologising to Indonesia and East Timor for your unbridled support in snuffing out democracy during Suharto’s reign and after? Seeing how up to a third of East Timors population went missing after Indonesia invaded and during the years of occupation with intelligence and other aid provided by the USA, it might be a step in the right direction if you are looking for respect in the region (Australia has a big case to answer as well).
-
timdog says:
Oigal:
for maximum effect. You need to read this sitting on the front porch, (preferably with a wrecked car in the front yard) wearing a checked flannel shirt with the “Cletus plays Banjos Greatest Hits” CD playing as mood music
Indeed, indeed, though dressed as a Taliban, and sitting in the Hindu Kush Mountains it still had a rather pleasing effect. I showed this page to the aforementioned US Airforce veteran. He was less amused than me, more genuinely upset by it really…
AlaskanInfidel – as an earnest liberal bedwetter I am ideologically bound to respect other people’s political views (unless they involve killing people, extreme nationalism, or some kind of racial/religious supremecism). There’s the key – other peoples’ political views…
If you nutters want to make authentic political criticisms of Obama’s policies, backed up with genuinely developed arguments, go for it! I’ll respect your standpoint, then attempt to counter it with reasoned, polite arguments of my own (though as someone who has done pretty well out of the British NHS in the past I will struggle not to get angry if you call universal free healthcare “evil”)…
But if all you do is run around shrieking, firing your rusty shotgun in the air, swigging your moonshine and howling – “They done elected us a for’ner! He’s a Muslim-commie! He went to Pak’stan! He’s an A-rab! He’s an Ind’nesian! I done seen me the ev’dence on the internet!” – which is, if we get down to it, what you’re all doing – then I’ll laugh at you and call you a bunch of nutters…My mind is going off on funny tangents – must be too much sweet Pakistani tea. I just recalled one of my favourite Simpsons lines. McBain: “Help! I’m being chased by commie-nazis….”
-
But if all you do is run around shrieking, firing your rusty shotgun in the air, swigging your moonshine and howling – “They done elected us a for’ner! He’s a Muslim-commie! He went to Pak’stan! He’s an A-rab! He’s an Ind’nesian! I done seen me the ev’dence on the internet!”
funny thing…I’ve lived all my 53 years in the US. From Florida to Alaska…and never in all that time have I ever encountered anyone even vaguely resembling your imaginary American you so tastelessly describe above.
Americans are, like most human beings, fairly intelligent and capable of making judgments and decisions based on fact not shrieking, firing weapons in to the air or drinking…Moonshine? Are you serious? Where are you getting your impression of America from? Ma and Pa Kettle movies?
Now seriously…you’re going to try and tell me that the NHS is a good thing? Tell that to the woman whose Mother died…was murdered by that system. She wrote a book. 10 myths about health care.
Her elderly mother thought perhaps she had colon cancer. She wanted a colonoscopy done. She was told she was too old and that basically…she wasn’t worth it. Later she began to hemmorage. THEN they gave her the colonoscopy, when it was way too late and confirmed cancer.
Did you know that there are more MRI machines in Alaska, with a population of 660,000 than in all of Canada? Did you know that the cancer survival rate in the US for Prostate Cancer exceeds that in the UK by 20 percent. Same thing with all other cancers, heart procedures.
Go tell you lies about the superiority of the NHS where ignorance is the rule of the day. I know better. Tell me about NICE. Explain that to me if you can. I call it a death panel. What do you call it?
“You nutters”…yeah that’s sweet. Too bad you can’t insult me to my face. I’m betting you wouldn’t have the balls. Polite arguments…I somehow doubt that you are capable of same. We’ll see.
Obama has successfully taken over GM and Chrysler, has prevented drilling for oil over and over, devalued the dollar at an astonishing rate and China has taken note. He is ready to hobble the economy with Cap and Tax, supported the would be dictator Zelaya in the Honduras, hired the racist Communist Van Jones for Green Czar who had to resign once his Communist roots came to light, hired Cass Sunstein who believes that eating meat is wrong and that subsistence hunting should be outlawed. His science Czar thinks it’s OK to slip birth control drugs in to the public water supply. His safe schools Czar…his hero is the founder of NAMBLA and thinks that schools are “recruiting” children to “become” heterosexual. Anita Dunn bragged about how the Obama team manipulated the press…controlled everything they saw and heard about Obama. Bragged about it… How is it good that he has now quadrupled the highest deficit the US has ever seen? Do you believe in Global Warming? Heard about the consensus of scientists that Gore touts? 600. That’s how many signed on to global warming. That’s the “consensus”. Here are 31,000 that signed on to it being BS and nothing but. Who are you going to believe? that’s easy…whoever reflects your “belief”…not science or scientists. Facts do not require belief.
There’s a little for you to explain to me. Tell me how all this is good for America. I promise not to tempt you with my Moonshine or threaten you with my rusty shotgun.
Oh and…Universal Health Care is evil…nothing but. Our version will cover abortion on demand. What group has the most abortions? Blacks. That’s how it started. Eugenics. Consult history before you call me “nutter”. The idea was to suppress the births of “undesirables.” These are the roots of “planned parenthood”.1030 PM here…things to do. I rescue abused dogs and have 13 to tend to right now.
Obama is a liar and Truth is
killing his Marxist agenda. -
http://www.aim.org/briefing/31000-signatures-prove-no-consensus-about-global-warming/
Sorry forgot the link to the 31,000.
-
Oigal
so…you would deny that Japan surrenderedto the US and was subsequently freed by same?
Does the fact that the Japanese surrendered to the US offend you? It’s a fact. It is also a fact that the US was in a position at the end of WWII to take anything we wanted and keep it. No one else had the atomic bomb. If we were the bad guys you make out, we would have taken whatever pleased us.
Do you recall the Amercan people, citizens sending their privately owned firearms to the UK for the home guard to employ against invasion? That was done not for profit but for freedom. “This is the country you insult.
How many graves are there in the UK with our young men in them? How many in France? These men gave their lives so that you would have the right to insult and demean their sacrifice. So that you can point to the mistakes and outright wrong that was done by the US and pretend that the preponderance of what we have done in the world in evil.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. We supported Saddam to get at Iran. Wrong or not that was the reason. Is Iraq not now free? Do they have elections now or not? What they do with their freedom is their business. The corruption runs deep there but who knows? Now that they have a choice, they may seek to keep liberty and reject tyranny. That’s their business now.Germany is free, both of Nazism and Communism. Both of these victories were won by Americans. Have you forgotten the Berlin airlift? Who carried that out? The United States. Or are you too young to be aware of that particular part of German history?
You dismiss the fact that Japan is free and that the US allowed it to be free. Gave it Democracy and walked away. Germany and quite probably all of Europe is free thanks to the brave men that gave their lives on European soil in WWII. You choose to insult and demean their sacrifice. Classy…
You “Tee Hee” at the patriots that will not toe the Obama line. How childish. How liberal. You probably also believe that those that are referred to by the MSM as “Teabaggers” deserve that invective for demonstrating against big government, high taxes and a government takeover of Health Care. They are the in the majority if you’re paying attention to the polls. Your elitist drivel speaks volumes. Your knowledge of the radicals that the head radical Obama has surrounded himself with is clearly limited. Or perhaps you choose to ignore it. After all…your freedom is not at stake. As a resident of the UK?…you surrendered all of your freedoms long ago, and don’t even know it. I pity you and how you are forced to live.
Your snobbery and elitist attitude are palpable. Perhaps you can muster some of the vaunted “British civility” we hear so much about instead of looking down your nose at and demeaning those that do not share your view.
“Tee Hee”…gimme a break.Obama is a liar and Truth is
killing his Marxist agenda. -
Well, I said that if you attempted to claim that universal free healthcare was evil I might get angry – and I did.
As someone who at one time spent a certain period attached to a drip in an NHS ward in which there were various people, many of whom were very unlikely to survive (my own odds, were, mercifully excellent) attached to similar tubes down which were dripping literally thousands of pounds of tax revenue, and as someone whose employment record and income could at best be described as chaotic, and who would therefore unlikely to have comprehensive health insurance were such a thing necessary in the UK, I can safely say you don’t know sh*t. If I had lived in the US at that time I would have been royally screwed. But I lived in the UK; I wasn’t, and now, thankfully I am sitting in the high mountains of Pakistan and have a very happy life indeed.
The NHS is a bloated, enormous institution in desperate need of reform and a certain amount of trimming (at the management level), but fundamentally, as someone who is generally completely without any sense of nationalism, it is one of only a very few things that make me truly proud to be British.
Everyone can come up with horror stories of mistakes and malpractice, and people with malignant political agendas can collate those isolated stories into misleading “books” and “documentaries” and wild myths about “death panels”, but it is a fact that the NHS routinely treats people, expensively, in hopeless cases and also offers excellent palliative care… I’ve lain in a bed next to several of them – so shut your mouth you retarded backwards ignorant hick. You have no idea what you are talking about.Mr Patung, I apologise for lowering the tone, edit my post if you will, but a nerve was touched.
-
you are made angry because the Truth hurts.
“so shut your mouth you retarded backwards ignorant hick. You have no idea what you are talking about.”
How incredibly ignorant and childlike.Bwahahahaha! Thanks for the laugh. You attack the messenger because you can’t attack the message. how liberal…
Tell me…since the cancer survival rates, for all cancers, is much higher in the US than in the UK, how does that make the NHS better?
I know exactly what I am talking about. I will not stoop to your level and tell you to “shut up”. I won’t call you retarded, backwards, ignorant or a “hick”. That’s your childish style not mine.
does your Mother know you’re online insulting adults?Present some rational rebuttal…name calling doesn’t cut it, except on the playground.
you say that any infromation, books etc. that put the NHS in a bad light are all myths and wild propaganda. Get those blinders off before you crash and burn.
You sound like a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. If some information doesn’t fit your belief…dismiss it.
Clearly…debating you on this subject is hopeless as all you have to offer is “shut up”.I hope I didn’t make you cry…poor thing…so sensitive… Truth hurts huh?…
“
-
One more thing for you to…uh…do you think? If so…and I doubt it…here is something for you to think about.
I recently had a heart attack. No insurance… The hospital I went to asked my name and phone number.
I was rushed in to the cardiology unit. Once stabilized I was transported to another hospital where a stint was implanted just below my heart to open the blocked artery there.
No one asked how I would pay. They just saved my life. So if you really think that if you fell ill in the US you would have been “screwed”…think again.You need to control your anger a little better I think. Just my worthless opinion, but it might clear your thinking a little.
your use of obscenities and insults does not further your argument one wit. It just shows you for the angry child you are. Grow up.
-
Now I am British (and a liberal again)? Indonesian, Kiwi, Australian, Indonesian, Malaysian however British that’s new one?
AI, you do represent the arrogance that has brought such repulsion by the rest of the world to what is no doubt a great nation DESPITE people like yourself. A little humility from time to time goes a long way.
A little history for you
so…you would deny that Japan surrenderedto the US and was subsequently freed by same?
Actually the Japan surrendered to the Allies (remember them, many of whom were fighting that war since the late thirties). The last major land action of the pacific war and World War 2 was interestingly enough in Indonesia (you might not have heard of it), the Japanese surrendered to the Australian Troops. Would you like to hear some more about the Pacific War with no USA involvement, strange as it may seem it did happen. Perhaps the African sojourn? Do you really think the USA did it all on its own?
Your inane comments on sending of weapons for the home guard is cute, but you and I both know was propaganda tool to lift the moral of the people and to make them feel involved (which was a real challenge for the self absorbed Americans even then) . In reality, that plan like the scap metal collections in the UK were of little practical use as we all know. Now if you want to discuss the pros and cons of the ‘lend lease” program happy to debate that with you (and that certainly wasn’t done for free), feel free to thank the rest of the world for pulling the USA out of a decade of depression thanks to the lend lease activities.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. We supported Saddam to get at Iran.
And who created that little disaster in Iran by the previous support of dictator? Are we seeing a trend here yet? Let’s not forget who started this little game of selective history regarding supporters of dictators and democracy. Please lets not pretend that USA’s interest in the middle east is about anything but energy and oil and has sweet FA to do with a burning desire to bring freedom to the huddled masses. History will clearly demonstrate the USA is more than happy to do business with any monster as long as its national interests (as short term as they may be). This makes the USA no different to 99% of all other countries but spare us the santimoius claptrap.
Germany is free, both of Nazism and Communism. Both of these victories were won by Americans. Have you forgotten the Berlin airlift? Who carried that out? The United States. Or are you too young to be aware of that particular part of German history?
You dismiss the fact that Japan is free and that the US allowed it to be free. Gave it Democracy and walked away. Germany and quite probably all of Europe is free thanks to the brave men that gave their lives on European soil in WWII. You choose to insult and demean their sacrifice.People that know my background would acknowledge that I would be (and am) the last to demean the sacrifices of Allied troops (that includes the troops of the USA) both during the World Wars and since. However, I find it repulsive and offensive that some pissant, loudmouth yank has the nerve to dismiss and ignore the legions who made the ultimate sacrifice in the defence of their way of life (including members of my own family). I understand that it’s not what is taught in American schools, but in this day and age such arrogance and ignorance is simple unacceptable.
As I stated before, let’s not forget the USA were very late starters in WW2 (1942) and quite content to let evil run wild until it visited their own front door by which time millions were dead fighting a evil the USA simply pretended did not exist. So once again spare us the ‘holier than thou, we only want to serve the world bull”
Now do try and pay attention, I have no intention of insulting the American Servicemen and women as they like all soldiers in a democracy serve their political masters. However, when people like you dismiss the sacrifices of the millions of others then it is little wonder the USA has fallen from one of the most respected nations in the world to one of the most reviled. The arrogance and dismissive attitude you display to other nations, their efforts and sacrifices do a grave disservice to those who have worked so hard to rebuild the respect that has been lost.
I am sure that Tim’s good Colonel would be just as insulted at people like you, dismissing the people from other nations who work and struggle beside him as not even worth a mention in your tirade of American supremacy.
You “Tee Hee” at the patriots that will not toe the Obama line. How childish. How liberal.
Give me a break, a loud mouth and a rebel flag do not a Patriot make. How is it every nutter militia group and malcontent in the USA instantly claim the Patriot tag? Is it too many Disney Channel specials on the Boston Tea Party?
Elitist and Snobbery…that’s just funny!
As for the social justice issue..I shall leave that to my liberal, leftie mate Timdog as he is far better qaulified although I doubt he would consider a good use of time.
-
I would love to respond to each and every oneof your insults and distortions of history right now…but life calls. Winter is closing in here and I have wood trees to fell, wood to split.
I’ll get to all of them as it is the weekend and I will have more time tomorrow.I’d like first to address your fascination with the Confederate flag. I am a Conservative…though the term Republican no longer applies in some ways, that is the party I most closely associate myself with. The Republicans fought against slavery. The Confederates were Democrats. The Democrats created the KKK to keep Blacks in their place. It was the Democrats that fought against the passage of Civil Rights…
Charlton Heston the past President of the NRA marched alongside Martin Luther King long before it was “fashionable” to do so. He was a Republican…a Conservative.
Those you mock, those I call Patriot are also Republicans. I do not question the Patriotism of those on the Left. I do not assume that they are ignorant or in some way inferior to me. (you clearly hold that view about me…how liberal of you…) They are not. They are my fellow Americans. Our views, at this time, differ. Freedom binds us.
Where is all the venom coming from? It drips from my monitor burning holes in my desk. You really hate America. Well…you talk about arrogance. I guess I’m arrogant because the opinion of one man like yourself, filled with hatred and blind to the Truth does not affect me. I have had many conversations with many Brits, and none of them showed the hatred and lack of historic perspective that you have shown… I shall attempt to amend that later, though I’m beginning to think that your hatred will blind you to all things that do not reflect that hatred. I shall endeavor to…hmm… I guess the best I can do is present facts for you to treat as you will. If you can refute them do so.
Who spoke…who instructed the Japanese representative on the deck of the Battleship Missouri to sign the instrument of surrender? You quibble… Of course the US did not defeat the Japanese single handed. I probably know more about the sacrifice of your soldiers than you do. Strange though…the signatures…their order…where the document of surrender is located. Hm…. You’d think that the US had some major role in the surrender.The ceremony aboard the deck of the Missouri lasted twenty-three minutes and was broadcast throughout the world. The instrument was first signed by the Japanese foreign minister Mamoru Shigemitsu “By Command and on behalf of the Emperor of Japan and the Japanese Government” (9:04 a.m.).[1] Then General Yoshijiro Umezu, Chief of the Army General Staff, “By Command and on behalf of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters” signed (9:06 a.m.).[2] Afterwards, U.S. General of the Army Douglas MacArthur, Commander in the Southwest Pacific and Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers, also signed (9:08 a.m.).[1] As witnesses, U.S. Lieutenant General Jonathan Mayhew Wainwright IV, who had surrendered the Philippines, and British Lieutenant General Arthur Percival, who had surrendered Singapore, received two of the six pens they used to sign the instrument. Another pen went to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, and one to his aide. All of the pens used by MacArthur were black, except the last which was plum colored and went to his wife. A replica of it, along with copies of the instrument of surrender, is in a case on the Missouri by the plaque marking the signing spot.
After MacArthur’s signature as Supreme Commander, the following representatives signed the instrument of surrender on behalf of each of the Allied Powers:
* Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz for the United States (9:12 a.m.).[3]
* General Hsu Yung-Ch’ang for the Republic of China (9:13 a.m.).[4]
* Admiral Sir Bruce Fraser for the United Kingdom (9:14 a.m.).[5]
* Lieutenant General Kuzma Derevyanko for the Soviet Union (9:16 a.m.).[6]
* General Sir Thomas Blamey for Australia (9:17 a.m.).[7]
* Colonel Lawrence Moore Cosgrave for Canada (9:18 a.m.).[8]
* Général d’Armée Philippe Leclerc de Hautecloque for France (9:20 a.m.).[9]
* Lieutenant Admiral C.E.L. Helfrich for the Netherlands (9:21 a.m.).[10]
* Air Vice-Marshal Leonard M. Isitt for New Zealand (9:22 a.m.).[11]On September 6, Colonel Bernard Theilen took the document and an imperial rescript to Washington, D.C., and presented them to President Harry Truman in a formal White House ceremony the following day. The documents were then exhibited at the National Archives.
My Father had the privilege and honor to serve with men from all nations in WWII. He spoke highly of the bravery and perseverance of the British Soldier.
He served in all Theaters of war during that time. He did not bring a Banjo or Moonshine with him. No Confederate flags or rusty shotguns. As you insult those other brave soldiers you insult my Father and the service he gave for you and I and all those that were threatened by tyranny then. You are free to do so because of men like him. You may piss all over those that gave their lives for your freedom…that’s what freedom is all about.
My tirade of American Supremacy… You read much in to my words. I dismissed and dismiss no one. That is what you are doing with your dismissal of those young men that sacrificed themselves on your behalf…and mine. And by the way…the South Koreans are some bad ass solders. When in nam our boys went out and saw nothing. They went out and came back with heads and mortar tubes. Same with the Phillipino soldiers.
Are you jealous? Does the fact that our economy is grater that any 8 nations combined make you mad? Are you pissed because we have the most military might?
Just be glad that that power is not in the hands of a Chavez or a Putin. Your freedom would vanish.
Is American culture superior to other cultures? No. Are Americans inherently in some way superior to the citizens of other nations? No. Has Capitalism worked? Yes.
Do I personally feel superior to my fellow man?. Not no but Hell No. I’m just a man capable of making mistakes…every day… and I have the guts to admit to them.
And…if I’m not worth your friends time…what makes me worth yours?
Your condescension…you don’t call that elitist…snobbery? Get a dictionary or perhaps a Thesaurus out and read a little.
Your ignorance is on display. Those that participated in the Tea Parties did not wave rebel flags and drink. They were from all walks of life, all ages and all races. The MSM did a good job of making it look like the one fellah that brought his AR-15 to a rally was a white man, but, sorry, he was Black. Racism is the cry of the liberal, not the practice of the Conservative. Consult History.
Those protesters were Americans. And you insult and demean them. Are you for higher taxes? Do you like to pay more and more taxes? Does it give you pleasure? Neither does it please us. The takeover of 1/6th of the economy by the government is a bad thing in the average Americans eyes. If you believe what you get from CNN and the like then you are a moron incapable of doing your own research. There are actually non-partisan groups that analyze this stuff…like the CBO. They have put the lie to many claims made by those writing the health care grab bill.
Again…in your opinion…quadrupling the largest ever national deficit is a good thing? The debt is what was being protested by those at the Tea Parties. Should they have simply remained at home? Silent? Submissive?
I remember a time, when Bush was in office, that protesting was a good thing. Now that the Won is in office, the MSM that lied to us about him is now lying about those that resist him and his Marxist agenda. Funny how that works. Indeed…”Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism!” This was the cry from the left until Obama took office. Now it’s shut up and get out of the way.And as for this comment….
“I find it repulsive and offensive that some pissant, loudmouth yank has the nerve to dismiss and ignore the legions who made the ultimate sacrifice in the defence of their way of life (including members of my own family). I understand that it’s not what is taught in American schools, but in this day and age such arrogance and ignorance is simple unacceptable.”
If only you could call me pissant loudmouth yank to my face. Yes…I am a knuckle dragging Neanderthal. I would so enjoy the following 2 or 3 seconds.
Your continuing childish insults aside…I never dismissed as you have those of this nation, the sacrifices made by those of the free world during all the wars this planet has suffered. You clearly know nothing of what is taught in American schools. Your ignorance makes that clear.
As for arrogance and ignorance…. Well…you can just make crap up all you want…the arrogance and ignorance is all yours baby.
Now…gotta walk the dogs.
Ill get back to you and your venomous rantings later…trust me.Obama is a liar and Truth is
killing his Marxist agenda. -
xperimentality says:
Just wanted to catch up on a few things here. First of all, tim”dog”, we can’t compare the current proposal for health care in the US with any other existing social health care. The majority of the social health care programs in the world are long established and, flawed or not, could not be put into place in the US today.
The plans being considered by our (the US) government are not as universal as they purport to be. They are designed to provide to the underprivileged and do not provide anything worth signing up for to the privileged. Social it is but universal it is not.
Also, Tim, you should stop playing on both sides of your ideals. You often have good input here, but you degrade yourself with awful generalizations of people in the US. There are people as you describe in the US, but I doubt they are out here on this forum or any other for that matter. Keep your comments above slander because you clearly do have a head on your shoulders and I look forward to the constructive input you have.
Now, Oigal…you have a very interesting history book that you take from. Japan surrendered to the Allies? Is that the formal signing of the surrender terms that took place on the USS Missouri on September 2, 1945? And as I recall, Japan was only at war with China when they bombed us in Hawaii. Maybe I am mistaken. Maybe China was a part of Europe in the 30’s.
Also, I see from your entries that you are Saudi? Maybe you can enlighten us on your country’s position of Israel. Given your opinion of the US’s foreign policy (and oil agenda) I think it might be interesting to hear. After all, what would much of the Middle East be without a demand for oil?
Finally, for anyone who is upset by the use of this forum for this discussion, if you could remind me what key stroke it is that copies and pastes it to another location, I will get right on it.
-
AI
Well bugger me other nations were involved in World War 2. We have had a breakthrough!
It is nice to see you at last acknowledging other nations and their people played some part in World War 2, I do believe it is the first such acknowledgement in your many posts is it not? Was it really that hard?
I probably know more about the sacrifice of your soldiers than you do
I would doubt that very very much. I am puzzled at the logic which allows you to take the rather bizarre step where someone who finds your statements both selective and arrogant in their dismissal on the contribution of others to an insult on the soldiers any nation (which would be a very weird position for me to take in fact).
The offer still stands should you wish a more inclusive history of World War 2, the one where the USA didn’t do it all on their own, I would be happy to help you out. Tell you what, just as attempt at humility go back and read your own posts and see if a modicum of understanding of why people get pissed at Yanks claiming the only reason others exist is thanks to them as if other nations played no part in world affairs.
I do remember saying
People that know my background would acknowledge that I would be (and am) the last to demean the sacrifices of Allied troops (that includes the troops of the USA) both during the World Wars and since.
I still think that the world would be a far worse place without the USA but historically and worldly ignorant, xenophobics do the reputation of the USA no good and are a major reason why the least welcome visitor in virtually any country in the world is an American
Now please don’t be mistaken that my support for the USA in general and all allied soldiers at all modifies my distaste at the rantings of your good self. That would be taking self delusion a bit too far.
The Confederates were Democrats. The Democrats created the KKK to keep Blacks in their place.
I don’t even know where to begin with this one..
…Not sure why you are raising health care in this particular post unless it forms part of the mishmash of hatreds burning deep. Although, I must admit fail to see how universal health care could be considered anything but a good thing, if not a human right. However I will leave that part to others to debate.
Ill get back to you and your venomous rantings later…trust me.
Don’t bother, one has only much time to waste and debates with zealots tend to fly around in ever decreasing circles until eventually….
-
Lairedion says:
Also, I see from your entries that you are Saudi? Maybe you can enlighten us on your country’s position of Israel.
Is that true, Oigal? 🙂
-
Saudi now? Well my position on Israel is somewhat complex and shall we say a long way from even the broad remit of this site (I wonder how long that statement will take to evolve?). Although the Oil comment is interesting, are you suggesting it was not a factor? No despots closer to home?
This is getting ..mm..words escape me.
you have a very interesting history book that you take from. Japan surrendered to the Allies? Is that the formal signing of the surrender terms that took place on the USS Missouri on September 2, 1945? And as I recall, Japan was only at war with China when they bombed us in Hawaii.
As our zealous friend AI pointed out the Formal Surrender did indeed take place on the Missouri and perhaps giving credit where credit is due, he did happen to note that Japanese did happen to surrender to the various representatives of the ALLIES at that time.
Japan was only at war with China at the time of the bombing of Pearl Harbour
not quite true but certainly from a western way of thinking close enough (French Indo China makes for interesting discussion, as would Taiwan). However the “Europe/Germany first” plan meant the USA’s effective re-entry into the pacific region was, certainly from an Asian perspective late. As for Europe, well the USA’s date of entry is as you say history.
Contrary the rants from a certain gallery, tis not the contribution of the USA that is in dispute, it is the simple omission that other nations were fighting for their very existence (and in many theaters turning the tide) before the USA turned up. I do however remain amazed that some cannot see that simply ignoring by omission or inference that other nations sacrificed as much if not a lot more than USA in the defence of their nation is of itself offensive.
Certainly for Asian nations who suffered so much under the Japanese, surely one can see the obvious problem with someone standing in the middle of the village square “screaming you should be thankful the USA saved you” as if they were sitting in the rice paddy enjoying the sun, doing nothing until the Americans came.
-
The Confederates were Democrats. The Democrats created the KKK to keep Blacks in their place.
I don’t even know where to begin with this one..
I’ll jump in there, that is definitely true Oigal, the KKK was a sort of branch of the Democratic Party for a long time, things have been different since Nixon’s southern strategy and probably before that….rather enjoying all of this….
-
Ah Lairedion, apparently so. It would appear I am truly a citizen of the world :-). Although I think cuk and ppt are going to be surprised at my newly elevated status. I must had admit I thought you would have waded in by now.
Patung, Well that is interesting, thanks for that. Glad I took the rather girlie-man option (can Saudis do that) and bailed before I got stuck with my foot in my mouth as I did with the Health Care issue. I do confess at first glance it seems rather “out-there”.
Glad you are enjoying it all, although the hordes do seem to be amassing and I do find myself on a strange side of the debate.
-
Andy says:
Alaskan Infidel, you better excuse the rantings of our old friend here timdog. He is a supreme hypocrite. He can’t be civil to anyone who doesn’t agree with him and he seems determined to pick a fight with anyone he can that is the same race but not of the same persuasion. Funny going through another post at this time he picks on a guy for his English language skills but lambasted me for doing the same to a guy named cukurungan who is a complete tosser on there pages. Mate, I don’t necessarily agree with all you say but you have a right to an opinion without this complete wanker putting you down for it. Give it to him with both barrels!!
-
Burung Koel says:
the KKK was a sort of branch of the Democratic Party for a long time, things have been different since Nixon’s southern strategy and probably before that
LBJ’s promotion and support for the Civil Rights Act probably had something to do with it. He was told by the southern Democrats at the time that he would lose the South for a generation. I guess it was one of the rare occasions where a politician stood up and did something that was right instead of backing away because it ‘might lose votes’.
/enjoying watching this.
-
Aw! Andy – how sweet that you still think of me! Just to let you know, the feeling’s mutual; I still cringe when I think about how attrociously rudely and inappropriately you must have behaved during your time in Indonesia, and how much damage you must have done to the best efforts of people like me who generally try to behave themselves and be respectful when in someone else’s country (even the USA!)….
@All – Mr Andy never quite recovered his composure after I intimated that his principal reason for first coming to Indonesia (as someone manifestly not of the travelling kind in all other respects) was as a sexual refugee… bless him, dear little fellow…AlaskanInfidel – are you honestly attempting to claim that had I been in the USA and been in possession of no health insurance whatsoever I would have received, free of charge, three months of expensive chemotherapy over lengthy periods as an inpatient, preceded by an opperation, a raft of scans and other diagnostics, a couple of entirely non-essential services and procedures that were nonetheless greatly appreciated, and then suceeded by follow-up diagnostics and aftercare in perpetuity? By the state, rather than by some angelic charity?
Don’t be so ridiculous…Nothing like throwing out statistics to confuse people, and few statistics are as confusing as “cancer survival rates”. “Cancer” is an entirely misleading term which covers a multitude of diseases, many of which are treated in totally different ways. Interestingly, the particular illness I had has better survival rates in Europe than in the US. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the political nature of healthcare provision in those respective places, and everything to do with the fact that for that specific disease a different standard treatment protocol from that followed in the US is followed in Europe – more successfully it seems. For other “cancers” the situation is vice versa… This, however is all digressive and besides the point….
Ah, the famous “more MRI machines in Alaska than Canada” line. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the fundamental argument.
There are probably a fair few MRI machines in Indonesia too, but my local becak driver won’t be getting anywhere near one if he needs it, and he wouldn’t if he lived in the US either. But if he lived in the UK, Canada, or most of Europe he would. That’s the difference. How on earth can you nutters call that evil?Now I am well aware that private healthcare also exists in the UK, and that if you are wealthy enough you are free to excempt yourself from NHS waiting lists by this route – but on basic principle a healthcare system in which, because of their circumstances, a certain number of citizens are excluded from full, comprehensive care, compared to a system in which everyone will recieve treatment, no questions asked, free of charge, whatever their situation, wealth or status? Present those two propositions to a newly arrived extraterrestrial from the Planet Zong, and I think it’s pretty clear which one he would point to as the less “evil”…
As for your excursions into general history, I’m afraid I’ll have to leave that to Mr Oigal. But anyone who approaches history blinkered and hobbled by an ideological standpoint will only embarrass themselves, as you are demonstrating perfectly. This is precisely why I have such little time for “feminist historians”, “marxist historians” – and absolutely worst of all, “nationalist historians”…
xperimentally – you have to allow me a little fun. On the actual healthcare debate, I am well aware that in the US it will never match the fundametal human decency of the typical European system – a system based on “insurance” rather than straightforward, free at point of delivery, no questions asked provision, will always be more brutal, less humane. Insurance, even if government provided, is a business after all, and the principle of its success as such is in not paying out…
But on whipping out absurd anti-American stereotypes, my tongue is, I assure you, firmly in my cheek. I just like the effect it has on a certain kind of hyped-up American – very similar to the effect of mentioning widow-burning to beligerant Indian nationalists, or “the Abbos” to Australians of a similar persuasion, which I do, mischeivously, from time to time… Generally it results in furious howls of “I’ve never drunk moonshine/burned a widow/ stolen an aboriginal baby from its mother, shriek shriek, howl howl”… Those with firmer grasp on themsleves and their arguments tend just to smile and rise above it. But people for whom the cornerstone of the anti-Obama argument is that “he’s a foreigner, the evidence is on the internet” are, however, unlikely to do so… -
timdog, while you accuse me yet again of unthinkable acts (pedophilia etc), I issue this challenge. Come to my country and then go public and accuse me like this again. I will sue you to the point of extinction.
You don’t know me and have no idea what I did or how I did it in Indonesia. If you can read dickhead, I have a family (wife and child) from Indonesia so that hardly constitutes being a sex fiend does it….You on the other hand are quite well known around Memories and other knock shop bars which as you know are full of trannies as well. Time to apologise or take up the challenge. I’m guessing you are not a big enough man to do so and will continue to attack me behind this wall of anonymity. I know who you are anyway. You on the other hand can never guess who I am..
-
Gosh, very much on a par with the time you went looking for PN at a Melbourne hotel, no?
Just for the record, I never once suggested in any way shape or form that you were a pedophile. What a strange thing to construe.A sexual refugee is merely a man of a certain type that we’ve all met in Indonesia – who is otherwise catagorically ill-suited to going to a foreign country – who ends up, a spectacularly square peg in a formidably round hole (no entendre of the variete double intended whatsoever), marooned in Indonesia, sometimes happily adjusted, other times unfortunately not, because some issue/deficiency/problem back home compelled him to go somewhere else to find a woman…
Of course, I know nothing about you (other than that you behaved badly in Indonesia and hold a formidible grudge of personal bitterness against the country), have no idea and couldn’t care less whether you meet the criteria of a sexual refugee or not (though I do recall you confusedly bragging about how you “got laid way more in Jakarta than in Australia” or something like that), but calling you one appears to have provoked a hilariously agitated reaction!Here’s my suggestion to you: you chose originally to go online and spill out details of your personal life, and to reveal in glorious technicolour the full extent of your hysterically unhinged opinions about Indonesia (and it was entirely the latter rather than the former that singled you out to me for a little gentle abuse). Given the generally boistorous nature of this forum, and given the things you say about Indonesia if you can’t handle a little back-chat, then perhaps you are the one who needs, in the parlance of our times, to “man up”…
As I mentioned in an earlier post here those with a frim grasp on reality generally merely smirk to themselves and move on when subjected to slurs on internet forums, but just in case some people find themselves confused I should make it clear that I have, I think, been inside Memories Cafe on precisely two occassions in my life (for breakfast, both), though I have walked past it a number of times on my very infrequent visits to Jakarta. I have not once in my life been to Blok M after sunset, and as someone with a generally indifferent relationship with alcohol, and absolutely no intrest in, ahem, “paid-for leisure”, shall we call it, I have probably spent less time in bars – either salubrious or the contrary – than almost any other Bule in Indonesia. I value my mornings and my wallet far too much…
***
Now, that Barak Obama, he’s just got to be a foreigner, right? I mean, look at him…
-
Yes back on topic and that is ‘Barak Obama’.
While timdog you attack the USA and Americans generally (read the aforementioned posts) the fact that the US has elected a black, part Kenyan who was educated in Indonesia for 6 years is proof of their general tolerance and freedom. This freedom has saved countries like yours timdog from your enemies.
Now i’m waiting for the day Indonesians can elect someone other than a Javanese drone to their highest office. A Chinese or Papuan leader would make things interesting but most likely won’t happen in my lifetime or any others.
-
Anyone interested in the paper chase game, here is some more paper.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Recall_Obama_2009/ -
This freedom has saved countries like yours timdog from your enemies.
Not you too Andy, sigh..
There is no doubt that USA’s industrial might and their people in uniform shaved years off the War, however some research will soon show other nations contibuted a bit as well and certainly suffered a lot more.
As a matter of interest, it was Australian Soldiers who handed the Japanese their first defeat on land and the Japanese were already turned back in PNG long before the Americans ground forces arrived. The Dayaks in Kalimantan have a particulary proud history in resisting the Japanese Occupation.
As for the War In Europe, as much as it hurts to admit for political reasons, the USSR had more to do with the defeat of Nazi Germany than the late entry of the USA. (It’s well documented that Hitler opening the “second front” with Russia was the single biggest factor in the defeat of the Reich).
Nor should one ignore that little island across from France that held when all others fell. I would also point you to the battles in the Middle East, Africa and China as an interesting read.
Oh don’t forget, a large degree of credit for the success of Allied Forces (note the Allied not US) in Europe was due to the British (contrary to the movie made in hollywood) breaking the NAZI ENGIMA code device.
Now strange as it may be for the neo nationalists to understand, its not a matter of hating the USA its just the reasonable expectation that the sacrifices and effort s of others be acknowledged. The myth of the all conquering American Soldier striding across the world bringing freedom and democracy to all with the ignorant savages falling in supplication is a Hollywood fairytale that has cost so many lives as idiot policy makers cannot move from the movies to the real world.
The sad part is the this arrogance projection of power and lack of historical accuracy means that a great nation like the USA is also probably the one flag you would not display on your baggage on any international trip.
A Chinese or Papuan leader would make things interesting but most likely won’t happen in my lifetime or any others.
Extremely unlikely in a democratic system as they would not have the support base any more than a Muslim would be elected Prime Minister in Australia (although the percentages would be about the same). Do you really think the USA would elect a Muslim to be President? Chinese perhaps?
Comment on “Barry Soetoro”.
Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-2025
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact
I’d never paid attention to this thread before; curiosity just compelled me to have a look and goodness me! What a window into a very strange world. It would simply be funny if I didn’t have a nagging suspicion that lots of these Concerned American Citizens are of the kind who have a borderline-sexual obsession with firearms, but still…
Where are these people coming from? How do they find this site? Why don’t some of them weigh in on one of the threads about sexy dangdut singer scandals or small-town Indonesian jilbab-propogation policies? It would be fun if they did.
Just as a random example of how spectacularly ignorant these people are, a little while back someone called jay wrote:
I’m sitting in Pakistan right now. I have four used Pakistani visas in my passport; I ain’t no Muslim, and though I ain’t no American neither there’s one sitting right opposite me (a US Airforce veteran to boot) and he’s travelling on a US passport and he ain’t no Muslim (though we’re both dressed kind of like Talibans – silly, self-indulgent little boys that we are…) Americans, non-Muslims, with American passports, have been visiting Pakistan since the days of the Hippie Trail and before. You people are nutters…