Atheist Threat
Oct 10th, 2008, in News, by Patung
Young atheists on the internet, and eradicating atheism and communism in Indonesia.
Governor of North Sumatra, Syamsul Arifin, said on 8th October at an occasion marking Pancasila Day that all elements of the nation must continually fight against and eradicate atheist beliefs among the people.
Atheism, which seeks to erase Pancasila and which once threatened the nation in the guise of the Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI), and still does, has to be guarded against, particularly because it still finds support among sections of the poor.
Syamsul said children should be taught from primary school through to university to hate atheism, so that the creed could as far as possible be obliterated.
A 4th ‘T’ – Rakyat tidak ateis.
The butchery of the atheist-PKI backed murderers of the September 30 Movement of 1965 (G30S PKI) could not be allowed to happen again, he said, hence the need to struggle against atheism. beritasore
Young Internet Atheists
On the internet at least some Indonesians seem happy to declare themselves as unbelievers.
Running an “affiliation” search on the social network site Friendster.com for “atheist” brings up about 144 matches friendster.com, while “ateis” produces 185 odd results friendster.com, although more than a few seem to be claiming to be atheist as some kind of joke.
On the same site, created on January 23rd, 2007 is the “Atheist Indonesia” group friendster.com, with 76 members and a fairly active message board, and some of its members seem to be active in an Indonesian language Atheist Wikipedia. ateisindonesia.wikidot.com
1,311 Comments on “Atheist Threat”
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stevo says:
This story is also the source of justifying the racism towards and enslavement of African-Americans. Many nutters believed African-Americans were descendants of the Canaanites and slave holders from the Deep South used this to counter the growing abolitionist movement.
So how did the black africans “justify” their slave trading, before the evil white man turned up? They traded their fellow men before any european set foot on the continent and continue to do so today.
Most major cultures have practised slavery at some point. The concept that this may somehow be wrong is relatively new, in historical terms. This radical notion was made popular by europeans NOT black africans. Looks like you dont need a bible to be a racist Lairedion.
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I have taken on board Lairedions comments about the white man using the bible to justify slavery .
I though it may be instructive to be informed on the views held by non-white, non-christians. Surely they must be shinning lights of racial tolerance, unlike the evil white devils and their disgusting racist views.
This from one of the (lefts) human rights heros:
GANDHI ON BLACKS AND RACE RELATIONS (Zulus and Kaffirs were African tribes in South Africa)
• “A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.” (Reference: The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, Government of India (CWMG), Vol I, p. 150)
• Regarding forcible registration with the state of blacks: “One can understand the necessity for registration of Kaffirs who will not work.” (Reference: CWMG, Vol I, p. 105)
• “Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian Location should be chosen for dumping down all the Kaffirs of the town passes my comprehension…the Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location.” (Reference: CWMG, Vol I, pp. 244-245)
• His description of black inmates: “Only a degree removed from the animal.” Also, “Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized – the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals.” – Mar. 7, 1908 (Reference: CWMG, Vol VIII, pp. 135-136)
• The Durban Post Office: One of Gandhi’s major “achievements” in South Africa was to promote racial segregation by refusing to share a post office door with the black natives.
• Sergeant Major Gandhi: Learn how Gandhi became a Sgt. Major in the British Army and eagerly participated in the 1906 British war against the black Zulus.
• Gandhi and South African Blacks: Gandhi wrote extensively about his experiences with the blacks of South Africa. He always termed them “Kaffirs” and his writings reveal a deep-seated disdain for these African nativesGandhi’s Support for “Purity of Race”
In response to the rise of white nationalist politics, which stressed racial separation, Gandhi wrote in his Indian Opinion of September 24, 1903:[19]
“We believe as much in the purity of race as we think they do, only we believe that they would best serve these interests, which are as dear to us as to them, by advocating the purity of all races, and not one alone. We believe also that the white race of South Africa should be the predominating race.”
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Lairedion says:
stevo,
Before you label me as a racist, I was referring to the Curse of Ham story as a source of justifying slavery and racism within Christianity. This is a theological issue and debate and there are some books written about this.
Noah’s Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery
I’m very much aware that slavery in general is not exclusively a “white” thing and is a worldwide practice.
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Ah come on Patrick, it’s no fun when you just plain ignore the inconsistencies in your own position. We expect more otherwise you are just another fundamentalist ranter and whilst amusing from a distance they are simply just disturbed and disconnected from reality. Hehe,,Christianity brought about the fall of slavery…mmm..so does that mean I can expect an update to the unchanging morality of the Bible on how to take and treat slaves.
By the way, I note the shops here open tomorrow and not observing the Sabbath, so it’s ok for me to stone them myself or do I need to apply to raise a righteous religious mob?
Lastly, I further note that according to most folks here regard Christ as just your run of the mill kind of guy..certianly not the son of god..where does that leave them?
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Stevo, I said earlier
I’m very much aware that slavery in general is not exclusively a “white” thing and is a worldwide practice
Needless to say but I’m just saying that the same can be said of racism…
Diego, the confusion is all yours. It’s quite obvious for the rest of us we are talking, to use your words, semitic mumbo-jumbo…
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Patrick, here’s another one for you, showing Jesus was an animal abuser and was disregarding the property of others.
Mark 5:11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 5:12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 5:13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. 5:14 And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done. 5:15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. 5:16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine. 5:17 And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.
Jesus forces 2000 pigs to jump of a cliff into the sea. These pigs were the property of herders who were obviously upset and wanted Jesus to leave.
Not a nice move by the lovable gentle Jesus…
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Point taken Lairedion. I was “doing an Oigal” and taking a fragment of your posting out of context. All this agreeing with you two is starting to feel a bit creepy, so I got to thinking…
Often conservatives are seen as being more closely aligned to the Christian faith and (so called) liberals not so much so.
I will offer an alternative view. I see them both (religion and socialism) as being ideological followings based largely on faith. In both cases their adherents maintain their beliefs, regardless of real world outcomes for real people. This is particularly so for the green movement.1. Both have a view that people are essentially bad and need a higher authority to impose morals on them. They believe that people are unable to define their own morals. In one case its god and in the other its central government they appeal to. They both believe that people will do terrible things, if they are not punished severely for non-approved actions and thoughts.
2. Both portray non-believers (in their way of thinking) as lost souls shrouded in ignorance.
3. Both tell us that the world will end if we do not renounce our evil lifestyle. We are advised by the left that unless we dismantle capitalism (and the hated USA) we will be smote from the earth by terrible storms, floods, famine, and pestilence. The only way to save ourselves is to repent and become a global village of socialist vegan organic farmers. (Pol Pott actually tried this out)
4. Both have used mass murder and torture to purge society of non-believers.
5. Both have launched wars of aggression to impose their beliefs on the non-believers.I could go on, but you get the picture. I believe that heart of the problem is not any particular religion or following, it is ideology being pursued in the absence of evidence. Some folk are unable to tell the difference between what they would like (ideals) and what actually is (reality). I am rather pragmatic and if god worked, I would follow. The lefts doctrine is an appealing idea and what a wonderful world it would be, if it actually worked.
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bonni says:
I am Indonesian and I am an atheist… Too bad that Indonesia only acknowlegdes some religions… And communism is not really related to atheist… I mean… Religions sometimes indeed is the trouble maker, terrorism, etc…
Thanks, Lairedion for letting me know that,
Jesus was an animal abuser and was disregarding the property of others.Lol
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diego says:
why do atheists think theyre morally and intellectually superior to theists? ive seen lots of douchebags and jerk atheists, especially among snobby gaga-induced gays.
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stevo,
I understand what you’re trying to say but I’m not impressed with tying together socialism with liberalism and the Green movement with Pol Pot. It reads like some sort of Tea Party manifesto.
Go ahead and google for the commonly accepted (except in the GOP) definitions of socialism and liberalism and everyone can see they’re almost diametrically opposed to one another.
As for the Green Movement, they’re sometimes a silly bunch of intolerant evangelists. With regard to Pol Pot, he may have tried to establish an agrarian socialist utopia but I don’t think he had in mind a particular concern for the welfare of flora and fauna in Cambodia’s tropical rain forests.
For me it all depends on looking for balance and practice pragmatism. Without identifying myself with any ideology I believe such an approach is best guaranteed in a secular liberal democracy with a Nordic economy model.
bonni,
Sami2. And indeed true. Atheism itself doesn’t motivate people to kill, belief systems and ideologies do.
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As for the Green Movement, they’re sometimes a silly bunch of intolerant evangelists. With regard to Pol Pot, he may have tried to establish an agrarian socialist utopia but I don’t think he had in mind a particular concern for the welfare of flora and fauna in Cambodia’s tropical rain forests.
I agree that Pol Pot did not care about the welfare of flora and fauna (or the Cambodian people). Thats another thing he has in common with many of the architects of the green movement.
This is a quote from the co-founder of Greenpeace, Patrick Moore:
The collapse of world communism and the fall of the Berlin Wall during the 1980s added to the trend toward extremism. The Cold War was over and the peace movement was largely disbanded. The peace movement had been mainly Western-based and anti-American in its leanings. Many of its members moved into the environmental movement, bringing with them their neo-Marxist, far-left agendas. To a considerable extent the environmental movement was hijacked by political and social activists who learned to use green language to cloak agendas that had more to do with anti-capitalism and anti-globalization than with science or ecology. I remember visiting our Toronto office in 1985 and being surprised at how many of the new recruits were sporting army fatigues and red berets in support of the Sandinistas.
For sure, many grass roots supporters mean well, but globally the green movement has been hijacked by people with other agendas. I could draw another parallel with religion in that direction also, but I think you see what I am saying.
It reads like some sort of Tea Party manifesto.
Do you mean this Tea Party?:
PRINCETON, NJ — Tea Party supporters skew right politically; but demographically, they are generally representative of the public at large. That’s the finding of a USA Today/Gallup poll conducted March 26-28, in which 28% of U.S. adults call themselves supporters of the Tea Party movement.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/Tea-Partiers-Fairly-Mainstream-Demographics.aspx
So a representitive demographic is what I keep hearing you and Oigal bang on about ? These are the people responsible for all Americas wrongs? I don’t think so. You may want to look at who is running the country now and see whats happening now.
Your faith in the messiah Obama has blinded you to the facts.
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@diego
Your question is: Why do atheists think theyre morally and intellectually superior to theists?
The answer is: No, atheists don’t think that they are morally and intelectually superior to theists, jewish do! Lol
;p
If I’m not mistaken, communism in Indonesia was also caused by some hidden agenda of our former government… The video of the “PKI event” in Indonesia was even not the original one, so many things there had been censored… And the things Indonesian kids learn from school about it were already sabotaged… The thing is, communism sometimes seen as some movement to attack capitalism…
Anyway, I am blinded by the messiah Obama too because apparently he likes satay and bakso… How cool is that… (@.@)
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Patrick says:
Lairidion says “Atheism itself doesn’t motivate people to kill…”
Interesting question but we should not ignore the fact that atheists are, more and more, attempting to organize themselves and therefore present themselves as an alternate belief system. They are trying to take the same misguided path that homosexuals are using to become recognized in societies as a legitimate alternative life styles. Therein lies the danger as they will systematically attempt to erode long held views of God until He becomes a distant memory. Once the compass (God) is gone, the atheists will be emboldened to present their own versions of morality which we already see in many Western societies. Yes, I would say athesits are organized to kill God and God based belief systems.
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Wow, thanks for coming back Patrick, it was getting boring! Atheists and homosexuals are tripping down the same path on a mission to kill God and God belief systems? A big call, I thought she was eternal and forever? So essentially you are living in fear of a super being homosexual atheist ( wearing a cape?) killing your God?
Oh well, lets move onto which of those belief systems are acceptable in your world. I assume its not the Christ Killers as your own belief system condemns them to wander the earth eternal. How do the Muslims hold up? Buddhists? Hindus? They all seem. To have some pretty core differences so it only seems fair that it you are going to mandate a belie system then you need to specific and just a little honest.
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Lairidion says “Atheism itself doesn’t motivate people to kill…”
Interesting question but we should not ignore the fact that atheists are, more and more, attempting to organize themselves and therefore present themselves as an alternate belief system.It is not a question Lairedion. There is no question about it.
You are also mistaken to think that atheists are a belief system. In fact atheists are the total opposite of a belief system. Most atheists try and shape their ideas based upon evidence, rather than belief. That is a fundamental difference between how I arrive at my views and you arrive at yours. Your opinions are faith based and mine evidence based (at least that is what I strive for).
You only have to look at some other threads, here on IM, to see that I often hold very different views to Lairedion & Oigal. Hardly evidence of us belonging to some single belief system.
What you also fail to acknowledge is that atheism is our natural state. We are born atheists and are taught to be theists. There is no conspiracy between “believers” in atheisim, its really redundant to even attempt one.
Can you also explain, for me, what the problem is with homos? How exactly to these mixed and varied folk impact your life?
I am curious about this. Do you think they are all extreme left wing social reformers or something? Or is it the fact they tend to dress well …
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Ah, for no apparent reason gays are being introduced.
Old trick, just add another scapegoat (Christians have many of them) in a poor attempt to divert the debate away so you don’t feel the need to answer uneasy comments you’re confronted with.
Pretty lame.
By the way this is interesting:
Vatican rejects cover-up claims over Cloyne report
The Vatican acknowledges sexual abuses have taken place so they must be aware who did this. Furthermore the Vatican denies deliberately frustrating inquiries. If that’s true then any law-abiding institution would report these thugs to the police. But we have yet to see any pedo priest being delivered to an Irish police station.
Who’s lying here? The Vatican or the local diocese? Either way it’s a Catholic but you already knew that. 😉
Moral compass? Yeah, right.
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Lairedion, thanks for the link: Vatican rejects cover-up claims over Cloyne report.
Vatican has been politicised like forever…
Found out, as well as homos, priests are human too…
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bonni, the Vatican has nothing to do with religion. It’s a sovereign state and it behaves like a crime family. Men of honour as they would say in Sicily…
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Has anyone else been following Tim Tebow, quarterback, for the Denver Broncos? He has become a rallying point for God believers in the USA with his on field heroics. He proudly gives all credit to God and even kneels down to honor God at the end of his games. As usual the atheists and the Liberal USA press have done there best to dispel that God has anything to do with Tebow or the outcome of his games even as he continues to confound the experts. He is hardly the prototype quarterback. The Tebow phenomenen has captured the public eye both in Denver and across America. High School kids have imitated his kneeling down to God and some have even been suspended from school as if this was some sort of harmful activity. But yet the wild frenzy continues on about Tebow and what is amazing is how humble he is about his performances. Before last weeks game he made sure to visit a young girl dying from cancer. Later, after Denver upset the Steelers he was asked what was the highlight of his day and he responded that it was his vist to that girl in the hospital. This is a young man with his priorities in order.
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He sounds like a nice guy Patrick and good on him.
Of course I could give examples of atheists doing good works. Many show great compassion and altruism to their fellow man.Are you suggesting that Mr Tebow did these things because of his faith, or simply because he is a good man?
To put it another way Patrick; was he motivated by compassion or the threat of burning in hell for eternity? If he did it because of his innate goodness, then we don’t need to credit his belief in god for his good works. If he did it under threat of eternal torture, the story loses some of its appeal.
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ET says:
Patrick
As usual the atheists and the Liberal USA press have done there best to dispel that God has anything to do with Tebow or the outcome of his games even as he continues to confound the experts.
It is more complicated than this. Don’t confuse atheists with the Liberal USA press and their double standards.
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BrotherMouzone says:
@ ET
I think you got the captions the wrong way around.
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I think you got the captions the wrong way around.
I don’t think so.
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OK, can’t be bothered to go through the entire tedious debate on double standards in tolerance again so instead, Ima gonna post a LOLcat for y’all.
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agan says:
Its not that complicated, professional sport such as Football is the real American religion and as far as the caption, depending on where you are in Good Ol’ USA either caption can be used (also depend on which side you want to provoke) but in general I agree with Pak Brother why bother, btw Pak ET you are such a cool cat!
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@BR. Mouzane & Agan – you both said “why bother”? Right there you put your finger on the problem. Yes why bother as long as it doesnt have any affect on you and yours! It correctly explains how a county that proclaims constitutionally basic freedoms to all its citizens suddenly has amnesia when it comes to freedom to worship. “Why bother” when these citizens are hunted down, beaten and killed because they belong to a sect that has different beliefs than the majority. “Why bother” when the highest court in your land sides with a Christian Church but no one is willing to enforce this ruling. “Why bother” when Papuans are suffering at the hands of exploiters because they are seen as less than other citizens and are as a majority, Christian. “Why bother” when Christians children are murdered by grown men with axes. “Why bother”. Do you think the Germans said “why bother” when their Jewish neighbors were being rounded up and being sent to the death camps?
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@ Stevo, who says..”To put it another way Patrick; was he motivated by compassion or the threat of burning in hell for eternity? If he did it because of his innate goodness, then we don’t need to credit his belief in god for his good works. If he did it under threat of eternal torture, the story loses some of its appeal.”
This is definitely a very loaded question as that was likely your intention. As you are probably aware St. Augustine, one of the great doctors of the Church, would have disagreed with you as he would have said that good is not mankind’s inate nature but rather it is evil. This is the basis of original sin that is passed down from generation to generation to all human beings since the time of Adam and Eve. Jesus Christ Incarnation, as both God and man, is the focal point of the entire Universe as without Him reconcilliation (man) with God would be impossible. Therefore as a Christian, I would say that Mr. Tebow is imitating Christ as the perfect example of goodness in humanity. As you may be aware, Christ taught man to love all and that includes you Mr. Stevo 🙂
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Double standards are one thing, what’s behind them is another.
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Read an interesting article in the Jakarta Globe web site today and about the growing number of atheist in Indonesia. Apparently, there are 677 members. Very impressive number considering the poulation of Indonesians is well over 200 million people. Think that comes out to .000003385% of the total population.Do you think the Globe will be highlighting Muslims (85% of the population) and Christians about 10% and interviewing young successful people who believe in God and actually still live in Indonesia? Sheesh! 🙂
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Apparently there’s a confusion about which god we’re talking about. Is it biblical god? is it galactic god? Biblical god, from what i gathered from bible excerpt above, is not really the kind of god we need to be a “nice person”.