Atheist Threat
Oct 10th, 2008, in News, by Patung
Young atheists on the internet, and eradicating atheism and communism in Indonesia.
Governor of North Sumatra, Syamsul Arifin, said on 8th October at an occasion marking Pancasila Day that all elements of the nation must continually fight against and eradicate atheist beliefs among the people.
Atheism, which seeks to erase Pancasila and which once threatened the nation in the guise of the Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI), and still does, has to be guarded against, particularly because it still finds support among sections of the poor.
Syamsul said children should be taught from primary school through to university to hate atheism, so that the creed could as far as possible be obliterated.
A 4th ‘T’ – Rakyat tidak ateis.
The butchery of the atheist-PKI backed murderers of the September 30 Movement of 1965 (G30S PKI) could not be allowed to happen again, he said, hence the need to struggle against atheism. beritasore
Young Internet Atheists
On the internet at least some Indonesians seem happy to declare themselves as unbelievers.
Running an “affiliation” search on the social network site Friendster.com for “atheist” brings up about 144 matches friendster.com, while “ateis” produces 185 odd results friendster.com, although more than a few seem to be claiming to be atheist as some kind of joke.
On the same site, created on January 23rd, 2007 is the “Atheist Indonesia” group friendster.com, with 76 members and a fairly active message board, and some of its members seem to be active in an Indonesian language Atheist Wikipedia. ateisindonesia.wikidot.com
1,311 Comments on “Atheist Threat”
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Oigal says:
Thanks guys for exposing yourselves for what you are..my work here is done..
Your pretence of morality and yet your dismissal of human suffering and things just working themselves out says more about you than I ever could
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Patrick says:
@Oigal – Well old gal as usual your spinning like an out of control top and as far as your work? You cannot mean your actually proud of yourself?
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barry prima says:
Subjective?
Actually my argument against Wicca/witchcraft is very much an objective analysis, using a kind of simple rationalist analogy, even you could if not understand, at least see as being objective.
On the other hand all your post have been purely subjective, and unrelated to any principle that is universal, scientific or spiritual. All they are in essence are the emotional outpourings of a fragmented mind and soul.Your pretence of morality and yet your dismissal of human suffering and things just working themselves out.
Whether you want to use religious analogy or Science/history, it is still cause and effect. Religion explains the nature of this cause and effect in moral terms which are contained within metaphysics.
Your pretence of morality
How can you know what humanity or morality is, when you don’t know or have any objective criteria other than your own feelings for establishing what a human being is(ontology)? You overate your own goodness and ignorance.
my work here is done..
If you arguments were merely wrapped a paper dragon you created in origami evening class, so that it could easily be cast aside by the strong wind of religious truth (The breath of Allah or Kun in Chinese) then you’re job here really is one that was well done.
In over 11 long pages there is not one atheist argument that has made me or Patrick question ourselves. I’m sure there is at least a seemingly intelligent Atheism somewhere, as god by necessity has to allow it, but certainly not on IM.It’s all just words?
In case you haven’t noticed this is IM a forum where the only weapon of choice is words! The sudden crack of a zen masters whip would have been more useful in shaking you into an awareness of reality, Even for me as I never did figure out the meaning of the zen koan “what is the sound of one hand clapping.”
Janma
Why don’t you let me worry about getting of easily
So behind the world weary “seen it all” cynicism and the hard as hails posturing, all we have left is the Impudence of a child when faced with a real challenge to your “opinions”!!
Janma I very much understand why women in contemporary society have to adopt such a protective demeanour, but is it really doing justice to your true self, your kata hati? As the I ching says when yin becomes yang it becomes evil. Your feminity is your greatest gift; the softest thing in the world overcomes the hardest as tao te ching tell us!
In our relationship to the universe we all have to be feminine, that’s why god is projected as a he in scripture, as he is manifesting his relationship to us as commander of souls as a law giver and fatherly
Figure who is trying to curb the errant ways of child looking for the way home.
Behind the angry god on the throne of the Old Testament there is a kind and merciful god of the New Testament, The Quran does not say anything in vain, the virgin marry is mentioned 23 times in al-quran, much more than any figure. Muhammad in comparison is mentioned just twice!I have been told separation from god is hell Patrick
I have yet to find a better definition of hell, or actually I have never seen it described as other than that in esoteric religion. Even in Buddhism you have rarefied levels of reality (heaven) and denser levels of reality (Hells, which are much more terrible than this world).Only Nirvana is permanent.
I cant believe in a god who sends people to hell forever
In Islam only god is eternal so hell, by that very definition can only be ephemeral.
There is seemingly a strong impression in the scriptures of the eternity of hell, the divine being allows this because of its psychological shock value in restoring a sense of immediacy of the moment a bit like the zen masters sudden crack of the whip.
To traditional societies this idea of eternal hell made sense but to contemporary man it doesn’t,that is because modern man is too clever in his sense of thinking, but too deficient in his sense of being. Being is rooted in the absolute and thus eternity, where the immediateness of the now condition is still accessible. Thinking is rooted in separation and time and thus cannot comprehend eternity in a moment. That is why traditional man of ages past was much more capable of cruelty as well as goodness.
William Blake
To see a world in a Grain of Sand,
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.I can’t speak for the bible as I can’t access the sources in their original form nor can I read them in their original source language (but I’m sure they will when read carefully give the same impression) but in the al quran, if you understand the semantic field of the words relating to hell and eternity you will realise that an eternal hell is impossible.
The word ABaDa to represent Hell is used 3 times in the Quran to qualify the duration of hell for certain type of human being. 6 times it is used to express a duration of something not heaven or hell related. A closer look reveals that abada in all the context used in the quran can only mean the eternity of that period in which that particular situation exist. The word eternal is more accurately translated as Azal, but the Quran never uses that term to refer to Hell. Hell is not eternal; it cannot be according to the Quran itself, so no one can go to hell forever, apart from god, if he could sin! Even in hell at its deepest level, the mercy of god exist, indeed in Hell the wicked and proud know finally that god is real and remember him and nothing is sweeter than the remembrance of god!
Heaven on the other hand is representation of grades of closeness to god, and therefore the final heaven (al firdaus) or Nirvana is by necessity eternal.OIgal I need to ask you at the expense of intellectual ridicule and coming across as preacher who wants to save you soul…do you believe in goodness, beauty and truth? Do you want to be liberated from all this madness? Do you acknowledge that the universe is so vast and you are so small? Have you ever felt the ephemeral and illusionary nature of things and captured a moment of transcendence?
As chuang tzu said, one day he dreamed he was butterfly, when he woke up he wondered was it the butterfly now dreaming he was Chuang tzu?
If you believe in all those things, which I’m sure you do, as only one who last his humanity would feel otherwise, then all you have to do is be brave enough to have faith.
Maybe you cannot have faith in the religions as they appear to you, but god’s rahma is still present outside of them. In this world of cold hearts and their cold hard facts it takes real man to be brave enough put his stake in the deepest part of himself. It is a very difficult thing to do,for such seismic shift in your consciousness, will lead to a complete destruction of the world you already live, but not only is it worth it, it is in the long run unavoidable as you have been created only to become an angel in the flesh. Are you brave enough to take that plunge, or are you going to continue running?
Fath is about standing still and unlearning. That is where god is, in the stillness of your heart, in a deep groove, where the clang of worldliness is replaced instead by the harmonious swing of creation. -
Hey Patrick..back so soon from healing stones at the heathens and adulterers..ho di go… I know I know…a zealots work is never done, perhaps you could sub contract out this way..no end of groups trotting around demanding the right to tell other people how to live.
I know its probably a fervent desire to assume that you arouse such passion in other men (I thought we covered that, you really have some issues there) but seriously spinning out of control..nagh..Nagh..You provide some harmless amusement at the slapstick level is all although hardly challenging. Closest comparision… Think of yourself as human (?) Slinky..Utlimately not much practical use, but you can’t help but smile when you see one fall down the stairs.
In answer to your last. yup
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janma says:
Did I miss the stoning?
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Barry,
Thanks for the concern about my soul and as for “intellectual ridicule” I dont think I have ever done that unless questioning your assertions qualifies..Patrick on the other hand, well if you lead with your chin..
do you believe in goodness, beauty and truth
Of course, but then you had been paying attention you would know that is what the this whole discussion is about..the inability of some and the sheer arrogance that assumes they can be (or are) the only holders of goodness, truth and beauty.
Do you want to be liberated from all this madness
You are talking freedom from the zealots here are you? Sure, but unlikely humans seem to have deep seated need for the super natural and myth best we can hope for is incremental advances in reason.
Do you acknowledge that the universe is so vast and you are so small?
Yup, no issues there, therefore it would seem on the basis of probablity the answer to life, the universe and everything was to be found 2000 years ago on one piddling planet would be remote.
Have you ever felt the ephemeral and illusionary nature of things and captured a moment of transcendence
No tend to aviod the happy weed, although granted “illusionary” could be applied to several aspects of that have been discussed here. The moment you start thinking this life is illusionary then you open the gate to all sorts of inhumanity in the name of some future reward and demean the very life and exsistance you have right now.
then all you have to do is be brave enough to have faith
Hey I am sure you mean well and believe this but I will pass, all too often the term “have faith” is religious code for “suspend thought”
Again, although I find some of your assertions abhorant in their inhumanity, this discussion has never been about me convincing you, your beliefs are wrong, pointless exercise!..
All the excercise was ever about (Besides proding the intolerant) was to challenge sheer inability of the zealots of this world to accept that as much as they may need to believe that God/s or their belief system provides them with the only acceptable morals in the universe..it just aint so. More importantly, all too often Islam is painted as the home of the intolerant and the extreme and Patrick has able proven this to be oh so false..Thanks Pat.Are you brave enough to take that plunge, or are you going to continue running?
You mean stop thinking formyself and hand over to the self appointed keepers of the truth?..again thanks but nagh.
In over 11 long pages there is not one atheist argument that has made me or Patrick question ourselves. I’m sure there is at least a seemingly intelligent Atheism somewhere, as god by necessity has to allow it, but certainly not on IM.
And therein is the rub..No one ever expected you to question yourselves (well ok, Patrick should question himself on any number of things, but thats more to do with his personal charactor than religion). In 11 long pages all that was ever proposed was the ability to accept that others don’t buy into your dusty tomes of myths and mythology and to accept the fact that other people may be just as good and moral as you are (in some, if not most better). This was a concept that seems way beyond understanding for some. Although I do grant you at least, allowed a concession (albiet hardly willingly). Unfortunately, your lack of compassion in other areas hidden under the cloak of religion highlights excatly why a secular world is the preferred option.
by the strong wind of religious truth
I will give you that one.. “religious truth” can there be a a scarier phrase in the language of man..
Actually my argument against Wicca/witchcraft is very much an objective analysis, using a kind of simple rationalist analogy, even you could if not understand, at least see as being objective
Oh please..lets not kid oursleves..
Impudence of a child when faced with a real challenge to your “opinions”!!
Again probably not the best choice to make your point..with ol Pat huffin and a puffin in the background, not to mention your own little childish outbursts from time to time.
How can you know what humanity or morality is, when you don’t know or have any objective criteria other than your own feelings for establishing what a human being is(ontology)?
Finally back to the subject..and you know moral value by virtue of the good book..trouble is none of you have been able to point out which good book, which version, which tribe, which subset..so as there is in definative book or grand master perhaps best to dump the lot and go with what your humanity inside tells you.
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I got tired of the argument and didn’t read all the posts….. I missed the stoning and everything! Yes…. I’m being whimsical once again… tis true, though only out of apathy for the argument. I’m not being an impudent child Barry Prima, nor, if given the time and the inspiration, would I be unable to present you and Patrick with a well reasoned and intelligent argument to every one of your points that I find questionable or spurious.
But, unlike you two, I do not have the (benefit)? of dogma or even belief to cause me to want to convince you of my opinions, they’re, after all ‘my opinions’… I have said on many occasions…. I simply do not know if there is a ‘being’ such as you describe, known as God. This means that I have no reason to try and make you believe what I believe, because I don’t know what I believe and I do not find it necessary to have my opinions validated by others, simply so that they will seem to have more weight. I do get upset however when people such as myself are presented by Patrick, yourself and others of that ilk, as being immoral, evil or somehow not as good as your lot.
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Oigal! You just saved me so much typing! Thanks!
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@ Janma – I also missed the stoning? But by the looks of Oigal’s spinning dangerously out of control twisted over the top logic he (Oigal) must be stoned! I will leave it up to really intellectual types to ponder my use of the term Oigal must be stonedand it’s true meaning? Good luck Lairedion! LOL!
Jamna I have no qualms what so ever that you using the personal freedom that God gave you known as Free Will that you choose to be atheist or agnostic. That is your right! That right has to be respected as God has given you free will. However, when that right comes into conflict with my right to choose and we have been down that road so you definitely know what I mean then I and other people of faith have the right to stand up and defend our faith from things which are clearly identified as evil and madam Janma I make no apologies to you or anyone else for that matter on IM or anywhere else. That is my exersise of Free Will and in accordance with scriptures that are the very meaning of Wisdom. Your very right Janma your arguments so far have left allot to be desired (But compared to Oigal’s bitter nonsense at least they were some what serious attempts at argument) as they are poorly formed to date so I challenge you to make argument that makes sense and will perhaps defy the good reasoning of Barry Prima ( who by the way just wrote a really terrificly inspired post) and me. We are waiting patiently and remember you said you likely can do it!
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Patrick Top of the Morning to ya…(boy you certainly get fixated on things don’t you..must be an cause and effect of tunnel vision)…Stoned..another threat or invite to a party..too subtle for me Pat..next you will be going all meta physical on me..laugh..
Bitter..I would have thought acidic in a larconic sort of way..
defend our faith from things which are clearly identified as evil
Interesting..where does that stop and what does “defending” really mean?
That would be by your definations me and I presume Janna then Patrick?
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But by the looks of Oigal’s spinning dangerously out of control twisted over the top logic he (Oigal) must be stoned! I will leave it up to really intellectual types to ponder my use of the term Oigal must be stonedand it’s true meaning?
Actually Patrick, I think Oigal made perfect sense in his post…
However, when that right comes into conflict with my right to choose and we have been down that road so you definitely know what I mean then I and other people of faith have the right to stand up and defend our faith from things which are clearly identified as evil and madam Janma I make no apologies to you or anyone else for that matter on IM or anywhere else.
You see, you don’t make any sense….
#1. My right to not believe in god has at no point come into conflict with your right to choose….. and I do not ‘definitely know what you mean”…
#2 In what way, or against whose yard stick have I been judged and ‘clearly identified as evil’ ?????? -
Sorry oigal, but do you think your point for point avoiding of the issue in the guise of a response is actually fooling anyone less yourself? Your argument started in the abc world and it is still there, when I am talking about a world in which full sentences are necessary, where things are connected with other things and create a universe that makes sense.
Blame the ignorance of other people to justify your own ignorance…that is all I am seeing…run bule run (did you say that Patrick in the dating Indonesian girls section?)….
By the way…why do you call yourself oi gal?
Is it oi (for skinhead) and gal for girl..are you a skinhead girl…haha?
You know one of my earliest memories of Indonesia was seeing a gang of skinhead girls with purple fringes and bomber jackets/dr martens…..after I saw that I knew this country is where I would find the true Islam!I do not have the (benefit)? of dogma
Nothing I have said can be remotely called dogma, it is the very opposite of dogma…..it just another label you throw around to get out of a real debate, and to elevate yourself in contrast to the degradation of to others, and in effect making yourself one of them… …all that you have said is actually dogma, disguised under the illusionary veil of free thinking. The biggest dogma is to think that you actually are a free thinker or that you are free.
so as there is in definative book or grand master perhaps best to dump the lot and go with what your humanity inside tells you.
What is humanity, what is it to be human…you have avoided that question all along…because you simply have no idea,and seemingly don’t want to have an idea, and that is the sad part…
If you did actually understand any of my post you would know that precisely there is no definitive book or grandmaster that was kind of like my point…Subtlety, imagination and objectivity are not your strong points…No one ever expected you to question yourselves
So what exactly was the point of posting anything and wasting your precious time,was it to get one over on the fundies as you said,which me and patrick evidently aren’t.? You Janma and all you ilk can’t even be honest about your feelings of superiority over people who have faith…then have the cheek to use that as an argument against us!!!!
My purpose is very much to get you to question yourself..and to question myself too, in that respect Patrick and fanglong,as well as you and janma have been useful to me..
In this forum it is not the people of faith who are the moralisers it is the atheist…Apart from timdog, almost every bule on this forum is consistently on some kind of anti islamist rant…By insulting my faith you are insulting me. Their seems to be this prevailing idea that no one with any intelligence could actually believe something so utterly ridiculous as Islam.
My reason for posting here is very much to make you question that assumption and hopefully to perhaps help you realise that the simple Javanese Muslim (even though he might not realise it himself) is much smarter and blessed than you think and in many ways a lot smarter than you!!Unfortunately, your lack of compassion in other areas hidden under the cloak of religion
Accepting the reality of the world is much more compassionate and lead to much more humane behaviour to self and others than to hide behind the cloak of sentimentalism and denial. How can you help others when you don’t know who they are and how they need help, if you are ignorant about how a machine works and try to fix it, you just create more problems in the end and the whole thing breaks down! Hence the cliché about the road to hell….
Contrasting yourself to the degradation of others is not humane. Why are you so obsessed about what weak religious people do, why don’t you obsesses about the Muslim friend you mentioned who is the most humane person you have ever met! In fact i would say you are very lucky to meet someone like him in this day and age, you should try your best to know what his secret is! Gods signs are everywhere, in fact he is Properly gods biggest ayat(sign) to you, yet you are still blind to it!
Reminds me of a story of man who went to India to look for a great teacher and never found him…then realised too late, the real teacher was a lowly chef in the guest house he was staying in.To deny the reality of the human being in his majesty, both good and evil…is the most inhumane thing imaginable. Not accepting your own faults and a need to redeem them is an injustice to your own soul and the glory which god gave to it alone in the whole universe! Not to believe in your own potential for evil,is to give it license to take over you…notice how the most sane and sensible of people become monsters in wars and other situations of difficulty!
but I will pass, all too often the term “have faith” is religious code for “suspend thought”
Yes Oigal suspend your thought, because thought just creates more thoughts, which lead to nowhere as they create a false sense of self control, which is just a bubble waiting to be burst!
Stop thinking of yourself and you and your own goodness…you can think yourself to death and still die ignorant, actually more ignorant than the day you were born….embrace emptiness and become whole…surrender to something other than your own mind, which is just a monkey jumping from one banana tree to another tree without any dignity or self respect..I only meant to have faith that there is some meaning to your existence, that you have the potential to be god like, to rise above the pettiness an smallness that characterize an unrealised human being (myself included)……that is all i meant…..just that acknowledgment, not any faith that is tied to one religion (although i recognise that they are so important!)
I appreciate people find it difficult to take religion seriously because so many people make mess of it…but in any path worth pursuing, we have to take the risk of failure, or that the path is replete with danger, uncertainty loss. That many have seemingly failed before us…..Man is the most precious thing in the universe
It takes a brave man to abandon, the false security of his mind, for the pursuit of his soul…Actually Patrick, I think Oigal made perfect sense in his post…
Says everything that….avoiding the issue in the face of a real challenge does make a certain sense if you want to hold on to constricting ideas/beliefs and prejudices.
Janma: Like Patrick, I await eagerly your well reasoned and intelligent argument to every one of our points that you find questionable or spurious. You might have dug your own grave with some really foolish words there!
Until then, I think this post is well and truly over for as a debate it never really got started.
Ps:Patirck I’m a bit embarrassed, never thought somebody would actually congratulate me for anything I say on Indonesia matters. God bless you too. -
Realist says:
Hey y’alls.
To all you on this forum, you need to get a bigger problem than debating some fool across the country about his or her rights and your own “radical” beliefs. You’re a bunch of classless liberals.
I propose trying marijuana or even experimenting with psychadelic drugs. Then you’ll see what I’m talking about.
Peace. -
dragonwall says:
Religion only gives you a peace of mind. Something to look forward to like make more friends and share opinion.
In general religion does not incite hatred or wrong doings. But under wrong circumstances it could led to something like the FPI for instance.
So whether it is going to be nice or not is entirely up to each individual.
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Real-ist
You’re a bunch of classless liberals.
Smoking marijuana and psychedelics’?…so passé…you’re, grandma, local police officer and school teacher are all at it now..
Why don’t you stop being such a classless liberal cliché and be really radical and becoming a crack smoking, paedophile convert to Islam.
Until then save your bob Marley wannabe radicalism for the backpackers on Khaosam Road.Peace.
Says it all? Anyone who uses peace as their outro is really behind the times…
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Aghori says:
Hmmm..
Another clever political statement of a Governor…(with a wink to certain parties)
instead of teaching children about humanity and respect for other ppl he prefers to spread hate.
My country has alot of this little Goebels and Hitlers. Short ppl with short minds (Randy Newman).has no reason to live..
I’m afraid that generation after generation of indonesian will be poluted by this kind of people.
In conversations these pejabat2 (penjahat2) always talk about nationalism, about how proud they are to be an Indonesian. How prospoures the country is…bla..bla….
What a shame…..what a shame…. -
Says it all? Anyone who uses peace as their outro is really behind the times…
Laugh..says a person who’s terms of reference for life are dusty tomes of slavery, murder, incest, and oppression.
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Hey Barry Prima,
You know, all these terms. “passe,” “Islam,” “Marley wannabe,” and “Khaosm Road.”
These are terms that you had no creation of. They are terms that don’t matter to you. Indonesia Matters? Islam? Some guy hundreds of years ago, in a place on the other side of the world may or may not have had some experience in a cave and now you are a follower of his religion. Get your own trip, not someone else’s.
The only thing that matters is you and your lover. Without either of these, a man is nothing. If you are getting your twelve hugs a day and your loving from your partner, you need little more than food or shelter. You seem to forget about all things else. Focus locally, it’s all that counts.And as for saying “peace,” It’s dialect.
… Is there a war right now? -
Get your own trip, not someone else’s.
Islam is the new counter culture, get hip to the beat cat….the only real trip is one where you are not tripping but god is tripping through you…you dig?
And as for saying “peace,” It’s dialect
Man I was just messing, I just don’t like drug cliches, that’s the kind of talk in the 60’s that lead us to the mess were in now and drugs are not funny, I’ve seen some of my friends totally ruined by drugs, even soft ones and I wasn’t joking everyone does drugs these days, all those people I mentioned, it’s just so tired, I don’t know how anyone could still say stuff like that for real.
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ET says:
Barry Prima
In over 11 long pages there is not one atheist argument that has made me or Patrick question ourselves. I’m sure there is at least a seemingly intelligent Atheism somewhere, as god by necessity has to allow it, but certainly not on IM.
Then what are you doing here all the time? Looking for adversaries but trying to convince yourself?*
Who was it who said: ‘Words, words, words…’?
*Psychologists term this as ‘positive reinforcement’.
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Odinius says:
People need to spend less time worrying about what other people choose to believe, and more time understanding how their own chosen path can lead them to a better life.
I’m going to quote three of the most sensible religious statements I’ve ever come across:
“Judge not, lest you be judged yourself”
“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
“There is no compulsion in religion”
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Eva says:
Dear Andy,
To enhance your writing on this issue, please check out the organization I belong to: http://www.aynrand.org (Ayn Rand Institute).
Eva
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Lanang says:
Victory in defeat,
And defeat in victory,
My mind’s own deceit,
Perpetuating this misery.Defined by numbers,
As I watch the frail egos collapse,
Defined by numbers,
Watching their neurosis relapse!Have I really achieved triumphant glory,
Or have I really just come out empty,
Unable to save those that really needed to be saved in this story,
Now the shadows of deceit hunt me as their quarry!Fuckin’ blog smogs of my own mind,
Machinations of the archetypical devil’s design,
I always command ’em to f*ck off to the abode of their kind,
But that really just means the core of my own twisted mind!It was time for tings to be changed,
Switching around those ancient tables,
The cerebral game rearranged,
A new dynamic but within the same fables!Yes, welcome aboard – come to me my dears,
You’ve taught me a great lesson,
Stalking and then drowning me in your ocean of crimson tears!By occupying my vessel time and time again!
Probing the sentimental voids as my hindering bane!
Leaving me deluded in the vain!So now I welcome thee back into my void!
Only this time, I’ve consumed you for my bidding!
Now I’m the designated stalker deployed!Once I was yours, and now you are mine!
A role reversing dynamic of the slave master paradigm!I may’ve suffered defeat in victory!
But now the mistress of darkness is my trophy!
So have I gotten victory out of defeat?
None but I shall caress the underlying truth to that riddle, for now it’s my game of deceit!Defeat in victory,
Victory in defeat,
I am the f*cking sadist, now in firm possession of his misery!
Triumphing and concealing my morale’s defeat with tantalising deceit!Fuck this sincerity and contemplation; my smoking mirrors will dispel all mortal despair!
Venturing through smog murk and overwhelming temperature to get home to my nightmare!
The very nightmare, that either haunts me, or daunts my enemies; whatever, baby, I couldn’t care!
Eighth and final circle of hell, you wonder? Hah! My throne lies far beyond the devil’s lair!Ha!
Ha! Ha!
Ha! Ha! Ha!
HAH! HAH!
Later, f*ckers!
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P Smith says:
Equating atheism and communism is like equating islam and terrorism. People don’t bomb buildings in the name of nothing.
The worst part about the rabidly religious and their anti-atheist hate speech is that they, the rabidly religious, are acting exactly the same way that communists do. Mandating that there be a state religion is no different than mandating the state have no religion.
In fact, Indonesia ought to take a look at their two communist neighbors, Laos and Vietnam, which have total religious freedom. That’s better than Indonesia can manage, especially considering the violence practiced by christians (some of it) and muslims (most of it) against each other, against the ethnic Chinese, and against foreigners visiting Indonesia.
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schmerly says:
janma, they should definitely have stoning in Indonesia, it’s a nice day out for the kiddies!
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Below is an excerpt from a recent article that appeared in the Washington Times.The 3rd paragraph gives a glimpse of how brutal an atheist government was to it’s citizens who openly practiced their faith. The first 2 paragraphs reaffirm that true faith is difficult to eliminate and when given a chance to flourish it will.
“…To tens of millions of Russian believers, the Orthodox Church is first of all a sacred institution, a pillar of the country’s 1,000-year-old identity and culture.
The death of Patriarch Alexy II in December caused an outpouring of heartfelt grief, with crowds of people lining up to view his remains. On Feb. 1, top clerics enthroned Alexy’s successor, Kirill a towering figure with a gray-flecked beard and sonorous voice _ in a cathedral filled with celebrities and political leaders. The first person to receive communion from Patriarch Kirill was President Dmitry Medvedev’s wife, Svetlana.
These events would have been unimaginable in the Soviet era, when the officially atheist Communist government treated the devout like moral lepers and criminals, defrocking and imprisoning tens of thousands of clerics of all creeds. Now the church “has become a serious power in society,” former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev told The Associated Press in early March.”
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I read this recently – http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/The-lingering-stench–airing-Stalin-s-archives-4028, nothing much to do with atheism explicitly but it bears repeating just how thoroughly evil communist Russia was
There were prisoners in the Gulag, Vishinsky explained, who had “deteriorated to the point of losing any resemblance to human beings.” An interrogator during the doctors’ plot wrote that, after one torture session, the elderly Dr. Vasilenko “lost his entire human aspect.”
Stalin said
Even if he was an old Bolshevik, we will destroy all his kin, his family. We will mercilessly destroy anyone who, by his deeds or his thoughts—yes, his thoughts—threatens the unity of the socialist state. To the complete destruction of all enemies, themselves and their kin!
Pure evil….
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Lairedion says:
Well, there’s nothing new about it.
In history many people were murdered and will be murdered, driven by all kinds of ideologies, be it centered around a belief in God or not.
In the Soviet Union atheism itself was not the ideology, communism in a totalitarian concept was. The point here is that atheism is not an ideology in the sense of a doctrine or myth, guiding an individual or group or something else. It’s purely the position of denial of the existence of God or deities. And yes, many communists were outright hostile to religion but there are many atheists who aren’t…
Believers often argue atheists are lacking a base of moral authority or values to differentiate between good and evil. That’s utter rubbish. Atheists may also follow ethical philosophies with a strong emphasis on doing good and right action, not necessarily supported with religious texts.
Comment on “Atheist Threat”.
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@Barry Prima – Thanks for the explanation about the “God Squad” stuff as it was appreciated. Also, I was fascinated about your reference to the “compass always pointing North” as that is exactly what popped into my head about a few days and I am glad that you wrote about it on IM. It seems the way Oigal is spinning around like an angry top that she could use a compass to get herself straight!
Barry, you have something to say so keep on saying it even over the objections of our loud detractors because you never know who else may be reading and will be grateful for the wisdom shared. God bless you!