Single Indonesian Women
May 19th, 2008, in Opinion, Society, by Guest Writer
Therry says overseas educated Indonesian women are faced with prejudice back at home and poor choices on the men front.
SOB’s, Single Overseas Bachelorettes
For single Indonesian women who
- are graduates of overseas universities
- or have spent some time overseas
- and/or are deeply influenced by the western-ways of thinking
while we’re women who are fortunate enough to have earned an overseas degree and are able to speak in another language, people often assume we are outrageously rich and likely to be snobs, and we are left with the dilemma of finding the right kind of man.
Men
In a country like Indonesia, where everyone seems to get into a state of frenzy if they aren’t a part of a “couple”, it has become almost a sin to be walking around without your so-called other half. No matter how emancipated women have become, they still feel it’s imperative that they are to be wedded off – soon, hopefully, no later than the age of 26. As soon as they hit 30, sirens start to blare off from their ears, forbidding them to enter places like cinemas or cafes with dimmed lights – as if these places have invisible placards on top of the entrances blazing “No singles allowed” blinking on and off in garish purple neons.
At times like these, it is possible lose our belief that it is okay to be single – no it’s definitely fine spending Saturday evenings in front of the telly watching repeats of soap operas, munching on crackers and glugging wine down to the very last drop – but when it comes to the topic of “boyfriend”, we often get into a desperate state where we’d ask each other if there’s any guy – anyone? anyone at all?
But to our despair we have come to a realisation that we know – yes, we know – that it is a tough battle to find the man who could really come anywhere near our expectations – even though we don’t expect that much. Well, so long as he’s presentable, not like someone that even your dog would recoil from, and comes with a decent form of transportation and doesn’t scab money from us – won’t it be alright?
Even so, the choices aren’t great:
- Typical Indonesian guy, whose ways of thinking repel us so much we shudder at the very thought of him. The mind games, the play-hard-to-get, the sleazy attitude, not to mention the somehow twisted attitude that they think females are only good for cooking, cleaning, bearing children, acting feminine, and being plain submissive – need we explain more?
- Overseas-veteran bachelors with over-indulgent parents who give them with BMW’s and Mercedes Benzes and do many of the other destructive things that filthy rich people do to their kids, thus unknowingly making these potentially fine young men turn into selfish ignorant brats who suffer from what we like to call “The Little Emperor Syndrome”. Although, because they live in western countries, they are very much influenced by Western ways, they are still very much Asian – unfortunately left with the bad parts.
- Foreign men, expats – forget it. Most of them are fat and balding with burnt red skin. Anyway, these guys go for the authentic Indonesian looks so there’s no way they’d be interested in women like me who don’t look that way.
So the question – plus the quest itself – remains the same: How on earth are we going to find the man who doesn’t have all those dreadful characteristics? The time left is getting shorter by the day and the numbers of eligible men are definitely getting smaller. I am simply clueless as to think whether we are simply left with no hope or should remain optimistic.
To hell with it. I’m just going to purchase another dog and be done with it.
Employment
Being the naive girl that I was, upon returning from my study overseas, I thought getting a job would be an easy task, because an overseas degree must have been more appealing than a local degree, right?
Wrong. It was difficult for me in finding a job. I sent out resumes after resumes only to usually receive zero response, and even if I did manage to score some interviews, they never led anywhere.
I had thought that my resume and the abundant amount of work experience I had was something that would have floored them – but it seems a lot of work experience probably meant I was not loyal enough (even though they were all mostly part-time jobs that I did during college) and carrying the title of an overseas graduate scared most people off because they probably thought I was going to ask for a huge starting salary which was equal to the salary of a person who had worked for ten years.
It was when I was almost totally fed up with all the useless interviews that I finally, finally, got a job. Unfortunately, before I even started working, someone had leaked the fact that I was (gasp!) an overseas graduate, and before I even knew it, I had my very own persona labelled onto me; the snob girl who must have had a very grand life and very loaded parents at that.
That wasn’t the first time it had happened to me. In the brief period of me working as an English teacher in a small institution in Thamrin, I had received the same treatment – the other employees were not keen to be friendly with me, and I couldn’t immediately start chit-chatting away with them for fear of being too friendly aka SKSD (Sok Kenal Sok Deket) and scared them even more; besides, the Indonesian Art of Basa-basi was not one I had mastered yet.
Which was why it was funny that when we finally got to know each other, they were surprised that I wasn’t at all what they thought. As a matter of fact, I was just like everybody else.
I went to work using public transport, instead of a hand-me-down BMW and a personal chauffeur.
I bought my clothes at places like Matahari and sometimes Mangga Dua, not from Guess or Mango. Although if I had a lot of money I probably would gone to the expensive stores, but clothes have never been an important thing for me – I’d rather spend my money on books, to be completely honest.
I cut my hair at the local Johnny Andrean and experienced bad hair days because it was the wrong style, instead of colouring and rebonding it at LuVaze – I’m not freaking Agnes Monica, for God’s sake. I wasn’t at all as glamorous and snobbish as others assumed by default.
Perhaps it is common to label supposedly rich people as snobs – because they are wealthy, then they are assumed to be arrogant. So it must be weird to see a rich person not being smug about their richness, because many of them are like that.
I remember what this other colleague said about this Javanese girl in the R&D department who drove to work using a Suzuki Katana and just recently changed her car to a Toyota Soluna, (bear in mind we’re talking about Japanese cars as opposed to European);
“Even though she’s rich, she’s a very friendly person.”
Wow. That “even though” bit really got me. As if being wealthy – or living an abundant and sufficient life – was a weakness, something to condemn to, and an excuse to make sense of their judgement.
Which is why whenever I met new people, I dread the very question of,
“Where did you graduate from?”
I’d contemplate lying, but I have never been a very good liar, and if I do lie, it will all just get out of hand in which they probably go,
“Oh, you went to so-and-so university! What year did you graduate? Perhaps you know my friend Budi, he was the manager of the student lounge?”
See? Not a very good idea. So now you would have understood my dilemma – if I’m being honest, I’m definitely going to be judged as a snob as to what has happened before, and if I do lie, I’ll just get myself into more trouble. And all because I spent a few years of my life being overseas.
Hardly a big deal – but not to some people.
145 Comments on “Single Indonesian Women”
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Matt F says:
Coming from a western country (Australia) that is so close geographically to Indonesia its amazing that there is such a vast difference in cultures. When it comes to comparing the singles and dating scene between the two countries there are huge differences in what is and is not acceptable. Religion plays a big part. To think that two countries living directly side by side have so many different rules is an interesting pont of discussion.
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Purba Negoro says:
Excellent point Matt- you must be an Indophile.
I let you in on a secret- Indonesian ladies have complete mastery of their “feminine” muscles. Some can blow you kisses
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bagofcontradictions says:
Whoaaaaa……….
very interesting debate going on here. Am not usually into commenting and rather enjoy to be watching from the ringside, but let me just give you my two cents:
Everything actually hinges on yourself. I spent most of my younger days abroad, had a difficult time reajusting to Indonesian as a young adult, but when I look back I can see that what you get is what you actually give out.
Look at people the way you would want people to look at you, and although I cannot vouch for a 100 percent success rate, it has been really helpful for me.
Once you start into stereotyping, don’t complain if others do that too.
Easylaaaahhhh. -
People’s perceptions on inter-racial relationships are what they are! You will never convince everybody of your sincerity or love or anything else. The beauty of IM is that you get to see the extremes of the stereotypes that exist. Those with an axe to grind and those that naively try and explain from their own personal circumstances why the stereotypes are wrong.
Ultimately, it comes down to you! Who you are? How you value your relationship (married or otherwise)?
In general, my take is that anyone involved in an inter-racial relationship will do just fine here and have few if any problems. That said there are idiots in any country who feel the need to comment on something that they have no personal experience with or no way of understanding — take that sort of stuff with a grain of salt!
Life is too short to be worried about what others think of your choice in life partner!
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Neal says:
I love how you hate being generalized for being an ‘overseas graduate’ but you do the exact same thing to male ‘overseas graduates’… plus expats arn’t all old, sunburnt and here looking for the typical indonesian girl, i’m a 23 year old expat whos been living here for 1 year and am single.
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eden says:
@Therry, thanks for the interesting article.
I’m an Indonesian female who have been living overseas for 9 years, went to university and got a degree in education, along with a graduate diploma in secondary teaching from an overseas university. (Not daddy’s money – I had 4 part time jobs when I was at university, and of course with help from the student loan scheme)
When I graduated in 2007, I decided to go back to Jakarta and work there for a while. It was very easy for me to get a job back then, maybe partly because of the booming of international and national plus schools in Jakarta, and having a relevant overseas degree certainly helped too. Getting a job wasn’t the hard part.
However I found living in Jakarta had pretty much lost its novelty to me – without meaning to sound whitewashed, I was used to crossing the road when the pedestrian lights are green, or on zebra crossings; during my first two weeks in Jakarta I couldn’t even cross the road because I was so scared of crazy motorists who see zebra crossings as nothing more than some kind of road decoration. I was used to safe public transports, buses that have schedules, eating places that display food hygiene certificates on their walls, waiting in queues, motorists who had to actually sit some tests and went through 3 stages of driver licencing before they are able to obtain their full drivers licence, etc.
I got in touch with old friends from high school, arranged a meeting, and all of them agreed to meet at… the mall. And when we did meet up at said mall, I found that the conversations were utterly boring, consisted mostly of gossips (did you know that so-and-so’s boyfriend got her pregnant and then f*cked off?), mindless consumerist crap (omg there’s a new j-co in town, it’s at this mall! omg there’s a sale in zara, 50% off!) and random crap (you’ve been overseas, you must know a lot of bule men no? please please please introduce us and tell them to join friendster and add us as friends!!). I stopped going to such “reunions”.
Being a smoker, I also got many disapproving looks and comments from fellow Indonesians (omg she smokes cigarettes, she must be a slut!)Now on to work. During my brief stay in Jakarta, I worked at a national plus school as a high school English teacher, and received a generous salary (for Indonesian standard) of 4 million rupiah a month, plus free accommodation. Which sounded great at first, until I found out what the other English teachers at that school were getting. It was something like this:
Me: Indonesian, fluent in spoken and written English, have a degree and a graduate diploma in teaching from overseas university, Rp. 4 million a month.
Teacher A: British, has a TESOL certificate that she did over the internet for 6 months, used to be a nanny back in England, Rp. 13 million a month.
Teacher B: Dutch, has a TESOL certificate (it was a 6 months course he said), used to be a makeup artist back in the Netherlands, Rp. 10 million a month.
Teacher C: British, has an internet TESOL certificate, used to be a bartender at a pub in England, Rp. 10 million a month.
I wasn’t impressed.Regarding men, I met an Indonesian man over the internet, who then suggested we meet at.. the mall!!! What is it with Indonesians and malls??? When I eventually met up with him, he obviously wasn’t impressed by my cigarette smoking and occassional swearing, and above all, the fact that I’m an atheist.
I was only back in Jakarta for about 4 months, and those were really, really shitty months. These days I’m teaching English at a local intermediate (junior high) school, still enjoying my packs of Holiday Menthol and the occassional joints, still a millitant atheist, and happily seeing a bule who enjoys mary jane, great premarital sex and video gaming as much as I do.
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Doug Stoltz says:
Hey Eden,
If you’re not making double or triple that salary, and if you’re willing to move a short distance from Jakarta, I’ld like to talk to you.
Doug -
Mbak Sri says:
hey eden,
hahaha post was amusing to say the least, most indo males would quickly label u tainted and extremely westernized and sigh astagfirullah and quickly suggest comunity prayers to ask god’s mercy on you. You should be so lucky 😉
But all that aside, you seem like a swell swell gal, smoker and all. Oh, by the way, Mall is Jakartan’s (not Indo) holy shrine, its where we go to get inspired. Branded labels are our God. We are indeed a special bunch 🙂Oh hey, occasional joint got my attention, care to share some doobies while talkin abt god? should be interestin.
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schmerly says:
@ eden.. great post good on yer gal! I love militant atheists.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Only 9 years overseas and lost touch with your base. My younger siblings each spent at least a decade in the States and Europe, 2 are now in China; and they are as Javanese as ever. Guess it has alot to do with how a person was brought up.
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@AAB.. “Guess it has alot to do with how a person was brought up” and how were you brought up, or was it dragged up in your sisters clothes?
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@PN.. “Indonesian ladies have complete mastery of their “feminine” muscles. Some can blow you kisses” How crude you are to post that remark, there are women that read IM.
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@Doug: Many thanks for the offer, but I’m no longer in Indonesia.
@Mbak Sri: Yes they probably would do that, sigh astagfirullah and all. and the christian ones would probably drag me to church and then pour holy oil on me so i can be saved =D
I would love to have a sesh and talk about god with you, unfortunately i’m not in jakarta anymore.@Schmerly: Thanks. Yeah militant atheists in general are awesome and ballsy bunch of people.
@Aluang Anak Bayang: Yes, fortunately I was brought up by my non-statist and non-ethnocentrist parents, who taught me that just because I happen to be born in Indonesia, doesn’t make Indonesia the best country in the world (and its culture and values the most superior one).
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Hi to all,
Well this is Ronggo Sani. I’m mixed race Asian. Means Half Indonesian and Half Pakistani……….. And right now m running my own Canadian Based Telcom Organization in Pakistan, UAE and Canada and planning to open in Indonesia soon.
I’m Single guy…. and willing to do marry with an Indonesian Girl……………. if there is any volunteer then do contact me…………. So rest of informations will be provided later after correspondences!!!!
So till now, tc and regards
Ronggo Sani
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Farah says:
@ ronggo sani
if there is any volunteer then do contact me………….
errrhh you do sound little bit desperate there…
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Mr. Right says:
hallo.
I don’t know, what is wrong with indonesian men!!! why they aren’t strong Men?? why they act like Gay??? are the indonesian men Gay??? or slaves?
the indonesian is now more like thailand. people from west and Arab countries use it just for sex.
why indonesian men can’t stop all the this??
Americans , European and Muslim Arabs visiting this country for sex. and indonesian men respect them for what they are doing there. they even call them sir and boss in the street.
some people think that indonesian are muslims! I don’t know. the muslims never allow other to f*ck the girls or take them to UAE and saudi Arabia for sex work.
shame on all indonesian men that can’t control their daughters and can’t give them the sex. -
Odinius says:
It’s a shame that “the Indonesian men” can’t give “the sex” to “their daughters?!”
😯
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deta says:
the indonesian is now more like thailand. people from west and Arab countries use it just for sex.
Right, Mr. Right. Very sad, really. Sex industry is apparently experiencing a rapid growth in this country. It is proven to be not influenced by economic crisis and can guarantee a long term stable (ever increasing) income for the people in it.
why they aren’t strong Men??
We have Ade Ray, actually. He just doesn’t care about it.
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shawty says:
I’m myself believe that attitude is in the end the biggest factor after all,
It was hurt me to hear that some employer disappointed with overseas graduated employee and I told them that they shouldn’t generalize and check carefully each cases
for example uni ranking and the motivation they took higher education abroad..
all these factors pretty much determined as well..to sum up, I can say I’m pretty lucky to get decent salary with my overseas degree without any help from anyone not even from my past networking link (ex colleagues).
I basically didn’t tell anyone except my family that I returned Indonesia as I get so bored and sick when they started asking “why I returned to Indonesia” after I answered most these ‘so Indonesian’ still asking with another question as if western countries always better. -
SR83 says:
Hi Therry, this is brilliant. I’ve been living overseas since I was 17th. I’m chinese-indo married to a caucasian man. Just want to share my view. I found it pretty irritating when I had to face some of my close relatives in relation to career and building families. I’ve been married for nearly 5 years and its really funny the way people question things like ‘when you going to have kids?’ or ‘hey, you’ve been married for nearly 5 years why you haven’t had kids yet?’ or ‘Do you have problem with infertility?’ and so forth. I had to respond and explained how ‘I’m currently focusing on my career. We’ll have kids probably when I hit 30’. My parents or even my Indonesian friends in Jakarta would say comments like ‘So and so have kids when they were 23 or so and so have 2 kids etc’ And I’m like ‘well, my colleague here only had her first child when she was 32 and some of my colleagues haven’t even thought about it yet though they were 30’s and I had to explain that its very common here.
I may also add, it was very frustrating too when I went for holiday a couple of times. It is very awkward as ppl would constantly looked at us. I’m not particularly happy going back to Jakarta even for a holiday just becoz the different atmosphere over there. We are treated differently. My husband is not an old man and he’s not bald. He’s very educated young man and so do I. We share our domestics and expenses equally. We both focused in our career. We both work for a government. I work in Finance and husband work in correctional centre.
In terms of East and West mind, it is true that you’ll be more likely adjusting yourself with ppl surround you esp if you live overseas for a number of years. Simple things like ‘basa basi’ just not working. I don’t like it when ppl beat around the bushes and certainly prefer a man with an open mind, straight to the point and honest too 🙂 Besides, I’m not a typical housewife woman, I’m more career goal oriented and some of my indonesian friends here also have likely mind set. 🙂
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spacegoat says:
What the atheist, militant aggressive females (=Westernized) do not understand is that in the natural order, there must be a leader in any group, and predominantly, in a couple it must be the man in order for peace to reign. That is simply to say that the man will have the last word on important decisions. However, the WOMAN subtly MAKES THOSE DECISIONS through gentle and loving manipulation of the man. A man is a very simple creature if his needs for physical contact are satisfied., and this a true woman understands and uses to maintain the integrity of the family. Yes, I am saying that women are more intelligent creatures;
A westernized woman cannot satisfy a masculine man which is why the non-marriage, divorce rate and single parentage rates are so high in the West.
Premarital sex and video games are both short term distractions and the person approving of them in this thread obviously does not know the meaning of human or divine love.
You are truly welcome to your westernized woman, for I too would prefer animals for company instead of them.
Womens education and economic progress do not have to bring westernization to Indonesia. These two things are also the key to applying pressure on the Indonesian man to grow up and stop thinking with his “little” brain.
Indonesian feminine women (the majority) are the worlds greatest treasure. I married an educated, independently financially stable one. I thank God every day for this gift.
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aussie sunshine says:
hi beautiful people… I would just like to add that I thinik most of you are missing ‘the main point’…Westernisation is totally absolutely about brutal HONESTY.. be you man or woman,this is the gift we give ourselves..and supposedly,hopefully to others. It is not about playing games of dominance or submissiveness to gain what we ‘think we need’..and sadly,this is hard on our males. Girls,if you state that you want to be ‘free,strong,your own independent and values selves,as a person,then stop play fem fatale games and stand strong’. You Asian girls have a learned way,we think comes from your upbringing,this is how to act appealing,helpless,needy to men..eeeekkk!!! Come on girls,you really are just getting back what you are putting out there to men. Western women are challenged&confronted by our males today,not because we are un feminine,or feminists,,as they would like to blame on us,but simply because we choose to be true to ourselves,our truth,our own individual strengths..but you Asian gals are still letting women down in general with your little girl acts,hiding beneath your eyelashes..yes we know all your tactics to woo the general male,and yes males are dumb and will still fall for this bullshit…;You Asian girls are far far from weak or needy,you just hide and lie and pretend much better than us Western chicks..If yas are gonna keep playing this pathetic needy girl game,then stop complaining..Godbless
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Oh..yes..and just so the ‘ugly feminist’ comments dont start flying bak at me..heres some things i’d like to share about me.. I am soft,loving,warm,gentle,intelligent and educated,I am a size eight,long blonde hair and sing and dance and cook like ‘the Madonna’.. im nicknamed Smiley becos im always laughing..;I Love Men…I like to make love six times a day if they can keep up with me..I play in the ocean daily,I adore and work with children,I love and keep animals,I am an environmentalist and one of my hobbies is bush running/hiking ten kms per day… I volunteer for State Emergency Services and a local Youth Club, I am deeply spiritual and aware… just so as you all dont try and pre judge me as a dumb non sensical feminist num nut…Im not… I am fully female,sensuous,beautiful woman,and I know,without doubt,that I am very entitled to be ‘the full truth of me’…No Asian gals,,I am Not a Weakling,or broken,sad or needy…these are ‘attributes’..and I will NOT EVER PLAY or pretend or act otherwise,as you Asian ladies seem to do,to get and deceive and try to keep a Man..; tis wrong and deceitful I think..;hmmm….but what does Linda really know? xxoo
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ET says:
aussie shunsine
Your 2 posts combined count exactly 446 words to advertise yourself and cover up the fact that deep down you’re jealous because you have become aware that you are no match for an Asian girl. But like so many Western women, especially the Anglo-Saxon variety, you were mistakenly taught that independence equals a bloated ego and over-inflated self-esteem. One might say that self-confidence is shooting out of your ass and you sound as if you see yourself as god’s gift to god.
Today, in the era of the bloated female ego, the mark of a quality woman is a humble woman, something millions of Asian women are still blessed with. Humility is the jewel in the crown of beauty. There is nothing hotter than an attractive woman who’s unaware of just how stunning she is. Unfortunately in the West they have become as rare as unicorn excrement. But such a woman is well worth the pursuit.
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Aussie Sunshine…Perhaps you are aware of another aussie saying then “FIG JAM” 🙂
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And keep your Fingers in the Butter.
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lol I studied & lived with groups of ‘modern asian ladies’ for six years,if only you mere foreign males really knew how they see you,as dupes and so easily played and name you all big fat hairy apes, they are also very very aware of our weaker mens needs to have their egos constantly stroked gentlemen and shake their heads at the Western womens ‘honesty’ .. hmmm,im not sure where your ‘standards of humility’ come from,but ive no fear or shame of my self awareness and I am not here to try and lessen your own insecurities. Its sweet but wierd you took time to count my words hon,but the day I feel jealous of the lil Asians gals is the day I dye my hair black,wear black contact lenses,starve myself till I look like a little ‘boy child’,bow my head,hide my true thoughts and feelings beneath my subservient ‘acts’,look exactly the same as everyone else in my country and pretend ive no voice or brain … hmmmm.. and this keeps you males attracted? wow…; kinda sad and pathetic isnt it .. na wee men,I prefer my Sth African man who is proud and unintimidated to have a loyal womans strength and intellect beside him… gdluk with your supremacy delusions 🙂 .. ciao ciao
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Sunshine, only women with low self esteem would open a debate on why some women can get more men than the others… but, well…
I studied & lived with groups of ‘modern asian ladies’ for six years,if only you mere foreign males really knew how they see you,as dupes and so easily played and name you all big fat hairy apes
In case you’re not aware, this so called ‘modern asian ladies’ are actually no more than a group of misled, white washed females who struggle to be exactly like you, modernized western women, and has long dropped their attachment to the real Asian culture. You might as well be proud of it. 🙂
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Nia,
It was good to read your thoughts and I share the same anxieties that you do as I am due to move back to Jakarta next year with my partner from England (he is a London boy), having been away for 15yrs
I found this website hoping to get some insight on how things are in Jakarta with regards to inter-racial relationships but some of threads I have read have left me bemused!!!
Do let me know how it goes, as you will be heading back before me & hopefully you can give me a few pointers lol!!