May 1998 Jakarta Riots
May 16th, 2008, in History, by Guest WriterSpew looks back on the May 1998 riots and the issues of mass rapes, anti-Chinese sentiment, and how the rioters came to be judged.
It has been a decade since Reformasi (reform) movement took place in Indonesia that succeeded in forcing Suharto to step down. Every year after the movement, media and political and social analysts reflect on what has happened and has been happening since Suharto was ousted. Since reform is the grand theme, these reflections therefore highlight the progress of reform in Indonesia. Although many topics can be written regarding reformasi in Indonesia only democracy and political reforms are arguably having much more attention than other issues.
Having said this, I would like to shift the focus away from political reforms and democracy and reflect on the riots that took place in Indonesia. The riots shocked the international community and may have changed their views on the Indonesian people. To some extent, the riots may have confirmed the wide representation of Indonesian people as having an amok culture. The friendly, hospitable, and inclusive attitude can suddenly turn into vicious, violent, and barbaric acts. When one of the Bali Bombing perpetrators Amrozi had his picture taken in foreign media, people bewildered with his smile: how can he smile after killing innocent people? There seems no other alternative to explain this perplexing phenomenon but put it into a cultural category box called amok.
Not long after the riots which took place in Solo, Medan, Jakarta, and Surabaya, Indonesians were shocked to know that many people were burnt to death in malls and shopping centres. The government, however, labelled them looters. Quoting the government, media outlets played an important role in perpetuating the representation of people who were burnt to death in malls. In their headlines, looters emerged as a product of discourse on representation of poor people in Indonesia. Labelling them looters instead of victims will impact on how big was the state’s responsibility for the dead people. Looters can be equated with criminals and with their deaths, the state should not be responsible for dealing with criminals.
Labelling them looters also denies the history of well-being of the poor in Indonesia. These “looters” are victims of structural violence stemming from unfair economic development. According to a report released by Jakarta based non-governmental organisation, Volunteer Team for Humanity, the total death toll was about 1200 people Tim Gabungan Pencari Fakta Kerusuhan 13-15 Mei 1998 (TGPF), Laporan Akhir Kerusuhan 13-15 Mei 1998, Jakarta, 23 Oktober 1998. available from: http://semanggipeduli.com/tgpf/bab4.html,
[Accessed at 8 May 2008]. The majority of the dead were those who were trapped in the burning shopping centres.
What made the riot gaining more attention, however, was the rape of the Indonesian Chinese. The stories of rapes appeared publicly not long after the news of more than a thousand deaths in malls emerged. It was Jakarta based NGO, Volunteer Team for Humanity (Tim Relawan untuk Kemanusiaan-TRuK) that brought up the issue about the rapes. According to their report, hundreds of Chinese women were gangraped. Human Rights Watch, Indonesia: The Damaging Debate on Rapes of Ethnic Chinese Women, 1 September 1999, available from: http://www.hrw.org/reports98/indonesia3/rapes.htm, [Accessed at 10
May 2008]. Yet, this appalling news did not immediately receive sympathetic gestures. In fact, doubts were voiced publicly as to whether the rapes indeed had taken place.
In response to the rapes issue, the Indonesian Minister of Women’s Affair Tutty Alawiyah, for instance, contested the data provided by TRuK and asked for concrete proof regarding the mass rape. Karen Strassler, “Gendered Visibilities and the Dream of Transparency: The Chinese-Indonesian Rape Debate in Post-Suharto Indonesia”, Gender & History, Vol.16 No.3 November 2004, pp. 689–725. Similarly, Roesmanhadi the Chief of the Indonesian Police contended that the failure of providing “concrete data” meant that NGOs could be charged with disseminating lies. Ibid.
Responding to the furore over mass rapes as well as international pressure to deal with these rapes the Indonesian government formed a joint fact finding commission (Tim Gabungan Pencari Fakta Kerusuhan Mei 13-15) in which government and NGO were expected to work together to solve this puzzle. Although working within a strict time constraint, this commission finally completed its report and suggested that the riot was a result of political tension at elite level and worsening economic condition. The report, however, did not draw a conclusion that mass rapes were systematic violence but only confirmed that such acts happened simultaneously with the riot and that among those rapes were some that were carried out with particular purposes. TGPF, ‘Laporan Akhir’. For more discussion on TGPF, Jemma Purdey provides an excellent account on the dynamic within the fact finding commission. See, Jemma Purdey, ‘Problematizing the Place of Victims in Reformasi Indonesia: A Contested Truth about The May 1998 Violence’, Asian Survey, Vol. 42, No. 4, The Legacy of Violence in Indonesia, (Jul-Aug, 2002), pp. 605-622.
The raging debate over the mass rapes seemed to impact on the representation of the riots. Once the stories of rapes unfolded, discourse on rapes submerged the other gloomy stories such as those who were burnt to death in the shopping centres. During that time, “anti-Chinese” became a lexicon that is often used to understand the riots.
Indeed, anti-Chinese sentiment was played up at that time. But one should bear in mind that political marginalisation towards Chinese people throughout Indonesian history may have contributed to Indonesian peoples’ understanding of their identities. Anti-Chinese sentiments, in this respect were constructed in order to lay foundation of what constituted Indonesia or pribumi. When the riots took place, the anti-Chinese sentiments were played up in order to represent the violence as something natural which stemmed from the tension between pribumi and non-pribumi.
In other words, these urban poor were dead when they would like to loot things from Chinese stores. And the rapes were merely manifestation of frustration derived from imbalance economic status between Chinese and non-Chinese.
As one crucial element to understand violence are the victims, the existence of victims who died in shopping malls and Chinese victims could help us to deconstruct the representations of May 1998 violence. Yet, in doing so we should not be differentiating them based on racial lines as this will only perpetuate the New Order logic. What we should look at regarding the May violence is that race can be a powerful discourse in producing the knowledge of that violence. Only radical understanding of victims of May Riots which weighs much on the interrogation of dominant discourse may lead to a better comprehension on what happened in those three days of atrocities.
137 Comments on “May 1998 Jakarta Riots”
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Oigal says:
Go back home to the Mainland Said Papuan to the Javanese…
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Enigmatic says:
Purba Negoro Says:
August 14th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
“…excuses the lazy, vicious envy (combined with subconscious shame for being undearachievers by comparison) which so many pribumi use as an excuse…”Typical Chinese racism as per their “one white covers a thousand blemishes”
Hokkien are infamous for their lies and illegal activity.
My Shanghai friend had this to say:
Hue lao an jian. Hue ren
“Hokkien di ren Zhongguo Ren: muo ming chi miau, hey shou dang, tao fei, bang pai fern tz, du ker, tou ji jer, puo hai jer,
shan dong jer, tzao yao jer, tzou syr ker, baw jun”Easy solution- Chinese don’t like Indonesian culture, obeying Indonesian Laws, rules and Social Norms?
Go back home to the Mainland- see how the Han people treat Hokkien traitors.
OK now PN some things to clarify.
The ‘Han’ group is the most dominant ethnic group and just 1 out of 56 groups in China. ‘Hokkien’ is a language dialect. Most Hokkiens are of Han origin.
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Purba Negoro says:
“Irian Jaya” is populated with Madurese and East Javanese whose local name I just now forget. Same as in Kalimantan.
Yo wes- Wong Madura aja deh, ya?Get your facts right, Ms Agitator.
Should you change your name to “OinkGal” to reflect Australia’s gold medal as world’s most obese nation?
Did you know obesity is directly related to poor socio-economic status and low education?
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dragonwall says:
One thing PN that I notice is that in all your comments you seemed to put yourself as a person discrimiatie towards Chinese and yet you say you have a Shanghai friend!.
Do you know when they call “Shang Hai Ren” meaning to harm people. And one thing for sure is that you know nuts about people from Fujian or Hokkian like you say. Amongst the Chinese, people from the Fujian Proince, like Fuzhou, Fuqing, Xinghua, Xiamen, they are known to be people that is the most hardworking of them all. Go anywhere in the world Australia, Europe and US, Canada. Most restaurant owners are from Fujian Proince or Guangzhou or HK. How ancient you are.
So if you know nuts please just concentrate more on Indonesian politics. Like once I read through that you said you have been at the cow ranch with Soeharto? Have you proven something?And one thing I am quite sure you must be closely related to Prabowo or perhaps someone from the TNI otherwise you would not be using his photo.
How do you translate your name, when you start translating
Hue lao an jian. Hue ren
“Hokkien di ren Zhongguo Ren: muo ming chi miau, hey shou dang, tao fei, bang pai fern tz, du ker, tou ji jer, puo hai jer,
shan dong jer, tzao yao jer, tzou syr ker, baw junAnd what does that mean? And does that happened in Indonesia? Like what you are doing now?
I see you are more like “tao fei, bang pai fern tz, puo hai jer, shan dong jer, tzao yao jer, baw jun” etc!
Tell your Shanghai friend to teach you more before placing such comments.
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Let me also tell you this.
Your acquisition of such pinyin Chinese were sheer words taken and place to agitate without understanding what they really are, and was that applicable in Indonesia political arena.
tao fei
Meaning thief = Can you tell me how often does that happened in all part of Indonesia.
bang pai fern tz
Meaning Members of Political Party = I suppose Indonesia has one of the most politcal parties in the world. So which one do you belong to?
puo hai jer, shan dong jer, tzao yao jer
Meaning Person who cause destruction, people who instigate and people who propagate.
How much destruction was caused? How many of them took part in instigating people to rob, rape, kill and burn? And tell me honestly how many of you always post such propaganda (which is normally your own personal opinion) in agitating others?Come on lets be honest. How much Chinese have you learn when you started professing be saying what was quoted? Can we go on to say the same to you?
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Sorry
NO woman was ever rapedThat’s a proven outright Chinese lie.
The LIE was started by:
“National Committee on Human Rights”- a completely Chinese funded and Chinese staffed NGO now closed just prior to news of SBY Government audits of all NGO’s- to eliminate real NGO’s from the filthy name of political activists and agent provocateurs starThe Women’s Minister started two hotlines, female specialist rape investigators and female rape-victim support staff.
The police investigated 20 Jakarta hospitals- not none case of rape out of 630 inpatients.
Police appealed for any and all evidence, however circumstantial to start investigations.
NOTHING yet offered
Policewoman, First Lieutenant Yenni Setyo Winindyati, stated in an interview with a major Jakarta daily on August 2 that she had tried to work with members of the Volunteer Team and the National Commission of Human Rights in good faith but got no cooperation and now she did not believe that any rapes took place.
NOT ONE telephone call, not one statement, not one complain.
NOT ONE scrap of evidence.
NOT ONE statement or even anonymous audio statement has yet been offered.Another Chinese- Eddy Noor- stated in all major newspapers he felt the rapes were total fabrication to damage Indonesia’s image.
Proof again of typical Chinese Glodok lies to worm their way into a refuge visa.
Even Human Rights Watch International concedes this truth.
A long time ago, A Chinese business partner close to Eddy Tanzil told me never trust a Chinese- they’re full of boast and BS.
And what happened to Eddy? Ran away with millions of dollars in stolen State money?
Actions do speak louder than words, hm?
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Purba Negoro Says:
September 22nd, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Sorry
NO woman was ever rapedThat’s a proven outright Chinese lie.
The LIE was started by:
“National Committee on Human Rights”- a completely Chinese funded and Chinese staffed NGO now closed just prior to news of SBY Government audits of all NGO’s- to eliminate real NGO’s from the filthy name of political activists and agent provocateurs starThe Women’s Minister started two hotlines, female specialist rape investigators and female rape-victim support staff.
The police investigated 20 Jakarta hospitals- not none case of rape out of 630 inpatients.
Police appealed for any and all evidence, however circumstantial to start investigations.
NOTHING yet offered
Policewoman, First Lieutenant Yenni Setyo Winindyati, stated in an interview with a major Jakarta daily on August 2 that she had tried to work with members of the Volunteer Team and the National Commission of Human Rights in good faith but got no cooperation and now she did not believe that any rapes took place.
NOT ONE telephone call, not one statement, not one complain.
NOT ONE scrap of evidence.
NOT ONE statement or even anonymous audio statement has yet been offered.Another Chinese- Eddy Noor- stated in all major newspapers he felt the rapes were total fabrication to damage Indonesia’s image.
Proof again of typical Chinese Glodok lies to worm their way into a refuge visa.
Even Human Rights Watch International concedes this truth.
A long time ago, A Chinese business partner close to Eddy Tanzil told me never trust a Chinese- they’re full of boast and BS.
And what happened to Eddy? Ran away with millions of dollars in stolen State money?
Actions do speak louder than words, hm?
Chances are, the rape victims have escaped Indonesia and probably would never go back to redress their grievances. There’s little chance that they will be addressed, if ever, and that some people are just living in self-denial anyway. But PN, and those who thought there were no rapes whatsoever, you may want to go online and search for the victim’s accounts of the pogroms. Oh and there are photos too. personally I was only 8 when the riots occured but when I read one account just months ago I was disgusted.
And like australia, it’s gonna take a leader with kevin rudd’s calibre to apologise to the victims for what had happened.
Also, given your display picture, which suggests that you were/are in the TNI, there’s little surprise that you would deny that there were any rapes. after all, you are/were part of the TNI and thus would defend them given that their role in the riots were dubious.
In fact for all I know YOU were involved in the riots yourself!
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PN…
I am reading this book Kerusuhan Mei 1998: Fakta, Data, dan Analisa. This book list in somewhat extensive detail the rapes and violence recorded during the period of May 1998.
I am guessing you will write this off as some Indonesian Chinese conspiracy funded by Western frilly panty wearing, bed-wetting, onanist, arm chair revolutionary wanna bes. Yet, my question is have you read it, and if so I wonder whether so many people can be involved in a lie and still be able to maintain that lie after 10 years?
I posted something about the book on my blog. Not all that comprehensive but I am still ploughing through it myself for a second time.
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DXP says:
enough said & comment on & on, with no solutions without prosecution of those culprit.
With or without raping, the black burnt shop-houses in Glodok are there until today, the owners never return back to the uncivilize Indonesia. Chinese’ cars, houses, shop are burnt, chinse man are tortured & burnt – no evidence ? blind eyes, my sore eyes can’t wait to challenge … please create another bigger riots in 31 provinces of Indonesia.Indonesian chinese is the weakest chinese race in the world.
You (Indonesian chinese) are part of losers too,
1. You shall learn mandarin be proficient and get your ash out from Indonesia forever and never return, you will be successful outside the uncivilize country
2. If you chose to stay put, you better embrace the way of live as a muslim, blend with the uncivilize terrorist and praise your God 5 times a day, accept syariah law, wear tudung for amoy, beard for man, don’t eat pork, don’t gamble, don’t pray to your anchestor tumbs, … and you will be fine living there foreverYou Indon chinese hv only 2 above options
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DXP
I very much like your line of thought. I should say hello next time I’m in China.I’m guessing Shenzen, Beijing, Ha Lei or Ning Bo?
Enigmatic:
They are lies. Not a single piece of proof ever submitted to even the UN.They were given every opportunity to give even the tiniest piece of rumour to the authorities- female rape specialists- anonymous phone line- yet they refused.
The riots happened indeed- but who led them?
Chinese gangsters like Anton Medan as caught on video and as he himself boasted to the Indonesian Human Rights Hearings.
Prabowo was ahrdly to blame- he was out of Java.
Why not chase up Habibie and Wiranto and their little coup d’etat?Rob- anyone can publish a book- even some epty vessels here on IM self-publish.
It costs $50,000 USd to run a series of 25,000 from Gramedia- petty cash to vested interest Chinese tycoons- ignoring the fact Tempo and Jak Post was shut down by Suharto for its’ blatant lies in 1996 and Jak Post group and Gramedia are owned by Chinese.Incidentally Jakarta Post group- is the main culprit for tabloid pornography- and one of the key reasons for the necessity of Porno Aksi= ttoal contempt for Idnoensian Common Law for Profits.
Anyone can make up a detailed lie- look at the US “Intelligence” about Iraqi WMD’s as the Toldtoy of such fabrication.
Hardly the first time nor the last
Oh- some more Glodok Cheenatown gossip:
“…prominent in the cheaper tabloids such as Oposisi and Bangkit, which appeared respectively in August and October 1998.
Bangkit, entering the market at only Rp1000, became an immediate hit with its prominent white on black background headlines announcing such things as: ‘WATCH OUT – THE NEXT 40 DAYS RIOTS EVERYWHERE’ (‘AWAS 40 HARI INI RUSUH DI MANA-MANA’), or ‘RAPED… and for heaven’s sake… their livers EATEN RAW’ (‘DIPERKOSA dan astaga… hati mereka DIMAKAN MENTAH-MENTAH’). Bangkit is part of the Kompas media group. Through its regional newspaper network, the Kompas group has also established several regional political tabloids including Kontras (Aceh), Demo (Palembang), Bebas (Banjarmasin), and Vokal (Yogyakarta). The latter is aimed largely at students and takes a more educated approach.Oposisi, from the rival Jawa Pos group, appears to be more conscious of its mission (‘critical and on the side of truth’ is its slogan) rather than just chasing sensation for the sake of it. Judging from its circulation figures, which are always sensitive to price rises, Oposisi is probably the most popular political tabloid at the moment.
Bangkit and Oposisi have not been averse to including fortune telling (ramalan) and mystical stories, especially if a political connection can be found. Posmo (also Jawa Pos) combines politics, alternative medicine, and mysticism. Selling at the rather high price of Rp1500 it remains the most popular of the politically related tabloids in Yogyakarta. No one seems concerned whether the predictions of future bloodletting come true or not (most don’t). The main factor in their popularity is their entertainment value.
The Jawa Pos group also produces Gugat, which focuses on politics and sex-related crime. It will soon give birth to another more ‘specific’ tabloid provisionally named Karmasutra. SkandaL, another new tabloid more distantly related to the Jawa Pos group, has the slogan ‘sex, money, power’.
from:
http://insideindonesia.org/content/view/635/29/Proven lies- as printed by Chinese in Chinese papers.
Sorry Rob- only a fool takes Chinese gossip at face value.
Be a little less stereotypically naive, and plug that bleeding Sacre Coeur -
PN many have said many were seen with many untold stories.
(If you continue to post comment like those in these blogs then I can say you are most probably smeone from the TNI),
Have you , please be honest, take the time when the riot happens to walk in to RS Pluit? And see what happened? I am sure you did not.
Have you ever walk into the building near Gedong Panjang and see what was the aftermath. I am sure you did not.
You said they were lies.
Just FYI, What I am referring are our clienteles who medical records and prove was shown by a preponderance of evidence.
I have a client whose sister happens to be one of the victims and who became mentally disturbed and later died.
I have a client who father was also a victim and suffered extensive injuries and two months ago his father died in hospital. The hospital did not remarked he died of old age but by some other reason during post mortem.
I have a client who was badly beatened in a police station at Grogol with his internal injuries and being treated by doctors at RS Pluit FOC. The doctors even pledge that if he wants to take action by suing the Indonesian Government, they will provide the necessary assistance. He choose not to because his family members are still in Indonesia. Get that.
You can continue to argue what you like because you choose to say what you like to hear.
The American Government and all other Government Body at the Un had accepted it as a fact, and yet you still think that it is your right to think what you like.
The only one type of person who can continue to think in such a manner is that they are not humans. So what would you like to choose to be?
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Chinese gangsters like Anton Medan as caught on video and as he himself boasted to the Indonesian Human Rights Hearings.
Oh yes Anton Medan is a gangster who hides himself under the guise of the Islamic religion because when he tried to kill someone and was foiled he ran for his life. The only thing to try and prove that he is that staunch with Islam is to be prominent so that he guise will not be seen as a make up on his dirty linen.
Prabowo was ahrdly to blame- he was out of Java.
Why not chase up Habibie and Wiranto and their little coup d’etat?That was why I said most likely you are someone from the TNI!
Asked the Navy commander from Cilandak that was dismissed by Wiranto or asked Wiranto himself.
I suppose at that time Wiranto was in Malang for a so call meeting but the only person left in Jakarta was Syfried Syamsuddin and Prabowo.
Chinese tycoons- ignoring the fact Tempo and Jak Post was shut down by Suharto for its’ blatant lies in 1996 and Jak Post group and Gramedia are owned by Chinese
Have you heard of media blackout! This is one way to ensure no one else gets the truth.
Blatant lies! How ignorant.
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Dragonwall-
You cannot provide anything aside from proven Glodok Tabloid gossip to substantiate your outrageous claims.
Lies, lies lies and proven Glodok-Grogol-Pluit-Slipi-Karawaci-Kota Kelapa Gading Tabloid myth.
No one outside North Jakarta or even Mangga Dua believes you.
How can we believe your lies about your “clients” when so many Chinese are themselves criminals or completely untrustworthy anyway?The UN does not accept these allegations as fact.
Only PARTS OF the Clinton Administration claimed these allegations as fact.
Chinese Mochtar Riady had been a financier of Clinton since the early 1980’s- funding Clinton’s Gubernatorial election to Arkansas- Chinese dirty money and Clinton became infamously known later as Lippo-gate.Other Senators includes Jews like Feingold and Blum- obviously no interest there to subvert Indonesian money headed to Hamas or Hezbolah.
RS Pluit- it explains it all.
RS Pluit was on the list of hospitals investigated by the police- not one rape victim in any inpatient or outpatient.WATCH OUT – THE NEXT 40 DAYS RIOTS EVERYWHERE’ (’AWAS 40 HARI INI RUSUH DI MANA-MANA’), or ‘RAPED… and for heaven’s sake… their livers EATEN RAW’ (’DIPERKOSA dan astaga… hati mereka DIMAKAN MENTAH-MENTAH’).
Chinese Tabloid newspaper: Bangkit.
Proven Lies- just like yoursYou Chinese always cry wolf- but there aren’t even any sheep.
No Dragonwall- you and other Chinese can never understand us Pribumi:
First I am forever a loyal Indonesian Nationalist who will gladly kill or die for my nation, without remorse, pity, guilt or shame.
Then I am a retired loyal officer of the glorious heroic ABRI.
Then I am a human. -
Now we see it all don’t you get it. I can break the ice by pinpointing you to the dot what you are. This is probably the case of some TNI deserter trying to make good being place into the media crowd to gather information and try to silence the lamb.
I worked in a law firm and the most important thing in life is prove.. It was proven. Does others needs to prove to you by showing what had happened to them and be expose to such risk like in the case of Munir. Is Munir a liar? WHO THE F**K ARE YOU ANYWAY! You can do better than that. Law firm does not PROVDE. OFFER OR DISCLOSE any CLIENTELE information except when challenge in court.
No one outside North Jakarta or even Mangga Dua believes you.
How can we believe your lies about your “clients” when so many Chinese are themselves criminals or completely untrustworthy anyway?I don’t need you to believe, no one needs you to belief because morons like you are faggots (more likely maggots) in the making. When we were in Indonesia, we have extensive business connections including retails. A close friends shop that sells watch in Mangga Dua had his shop looted empty and burnt to ashes. He is not interested in rebuilding his business there any longer. Not for fear, but is that worth the f**k**g while. So don’t pretend nothing happened.
Why not you just bring a big brush and start painting the whole scenario white as though nothing had happened.
The very night I was in a cafe lounge in Hayam Wuruk and left Jakarta the following morning. The very next day after it was burnt to ashes.
One of our clients whose office happens to be several house away were mostly all trapped in their building and had to resort to jumping off the windows to avoid the burning spread. As to whether the Chinese are criminals or not I think you are the better judge because people who serve the force, be it police or army, they were usually caught for totting a gun in robberies.
I am quite sure, unless it is like Hollywood who is shooting a scene, no one is capable of putting up video clips on Your Tube to show in general public what had actually happened at that time with people from force (noticeably by the cepak cut) inciting the looting. I am aware of army tactic because this is a redirection of attention pro an contras with the force. Besides their main intention was to create such a scene but unfortunately that scene had just went out of control.The UN does not accept these allegations as fact.
Only PARTS OF the Clinton Administration claimed these allegations as fact.
Chinese Mochtar Riady had been a financier of Clinton since the early 1980’s- funding Clinton’s Gubernatorial election to Arkansas- Chinese dirty money and Clinton became infamously known later as Lippo-gate.I can see in frequent momentum that most of your comments were always redirected to something else instead of to the right topic that I suppose is meant to be misleading the literate thinking of some Indonesian Pribumis browsing the web into believing that others is at fault and you are not to be blame for being someone who tried to show something dirty and keep things clean.
Guys from the CIA and the US military advisers were in Jakarta just before the riot were. Medelline Albright made comments on Burma and other human rights issue except Indonesia’s situation, why. JUST TO LET INDONESIA ROT.RS Pluit was on the list of hospitals investigated by the police- not one rape victim in any inpatient or outpatient
I think you have learn enough from your Shanghainese friends and this just come in handy. The words you used “Fan” “Hua Na” were those that you said right.
During the prelim investigation there was nothing because no one really cares. Later when there were those volunteer humanity group started the investigation they made some progress. Now nothing had happened?
You know the interpretation I previously made, was that “overturn” and “twist aznd turn” right.WATCH OUT – THE NEXT 40 DAYS RIOTS EVERYWHERE’ (’AWAS 40 HARI INI RUSUH DI MANA-MANA’), or ‘RAPED… and for heaven’s sake… their livers EATEN RAW’ (’DIPERKOSA dan astaga… hati mereka DIMAKAN MENTAH-MENTAH’</blockquote
Ther is no heaven for people like you except with methamphetamine, heroin and coke. And that is your heaven
You mean the next 40 days! Well lets see and make sure to your face showed some prominence instead of using someone’s face (I also suppose you had this feeling, (DIMANA MAU TARUH MUKA GUA KAN..kind of nice feeling) so that guys in the IM could better see who you are. I HONESTLY THINK YOU DON’T HAVE THE BALLS. So lets see come 4th November 2008.First I am forever a loyal Indonesian Nationalist who will gladly kill or die for my nation, without remorse, pity, guilt or shame.
An Indonesian Nationalist don’t behave this way except fanatics obssessed with the mind of hoping one day you could the KASAD, or President. No wonder you did’t come close after retirement.
Then I am a retired loyal officer of the glorious heroic ABRI.
If there is any heroes then they are those that die during the G 30 S PKI era. Those that had go against the roder of Safrie Syamsuddin and Wiranto. Not even now the coward Prabowo. There is no ABRI heroes at all now but officially dressed military villians. Don’t forget during the Soeharto rule the military were heavily subsidized by business people whom you call criminals and stealing from the country.
Then I am a human
Then we have all proven to you that you are not in any way HUMAN but a VILLIAN.
You can go on checking the Wikipedia and post them tirelessly throughout the night just to make yourself happy.
ANYWAY WHO CARES.
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Oh, one more thing I forgot.
Don’t political parties in Indonesia go around or asked for “Sumbangan”? For what ! So that you could succeed, right!
I know Mochtar Riady myself during the time when he was with Bank Duta and BCA. Can you teach us, how a banker could be criminal? Like stealing from depositiors account? Perhaps!
So since Bill Clinton and James Riady were close friends, can’t they contribute for their success? After all it was only US$250,000 right! It’s peanuts. I make many many times more than that a year and I don’t have to be like a criminal like what you implied the Chinese were.
Obama also asked for campaign contribution. The only thing is that James got unlucky when someone with dirty politic got informations and made a public splash.DON’T FORGET 4TH NOVEMBER 2008 and make your wish come true.
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Dragonwall…
I don’t need you to believe, no one needs you to belief because morons like you are faggots (more likely maggots) in the making.
Here you are teeing off on PN for his insensitivity, perpetuating stereotypes, and refusing to accept your version of events, and you then go and use a word like faggot within the context of morons and maggots.
Just wondering what your definition of a faggot is?
Nah, you close your most recent post with “anyway who cares” and in capital letters no less. It is obvious that you care.
PN is a serial baiter and master at selective memory of events. You should have realized by now that anything he says needs to be taken with a grain of salt. For the most part it should be water of a duck’s back. He has no interest in any truth but his own and you will not convince him of anything else.
The idea that only parts of the Clinton Administration accepted the allegations as fact because the Riady’s paid them to is taking an unrelated fact of James Riady’s involvement in dodgy business practices in the US with regards to campaign finance (and for which he was fined and the fine remains the biggest issued with respect to campaign finance, if I am not mistaken) and linking it to acknowledgment of the crimes committed is a misrepresentation.
The Inside Indonesia link is also a misrepresentation and I am sure that PN hopes no one clicks on it and actually reads the article in full. It is an article about the rise in the number of licenses issued to publish magazines, tabloids, broadsheets, newspapers, and the like. The article is focusing on the need to sensationalize to boost circulation. It uses the examples that PN has cut and pasted. It is worth noting that the article does not make any specific mention of whether or not what transpired in May 1998 is verifiable or not. This is all part of the selectiveness that invades a PN post.
This is why the personal histories of those who suffered during the riots are so critically important to the writing of the history of that time. For example, I can appreciate a Chinese trader not wanting to re-establish a business in Glodok or Mangga Dua, but this is a different issue to the idea of recording the past in order to understand the history. Without these personal histories of suffering, then the PNs of this world will be able to espouse the kind of vitriol that they do now.
Swearing at the man and vilifying others is hardly a way to convince people of your arguments.
I just want to add that I am in no way supportive of any of PN’s arguments. You will see that my previous posts have been labelled as naive and that I have been charmed by Chinese lies. If you let PN get under your skin then he wins.
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PN…
Bleeding Sacred Heart…nice that you think so highly of my heart.
Nah, let’s say, hypothetically of course, that of the hundreds of alleged incidents that I am reading about in this book are true and provably so, would you modify your opinion and accept the truth of the rape and pillage that occurred in May 1998?
More to the point what would be sufficient proof for you? A C-SPAN style testimony? Or would a local hospital releasing a full account of medical records (sans names — the victims deserve some additional protection from further persecution) suffice?
Just wondering…
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The reason I say
You can go on checking the Wikipedia and post them tirelessly throughout the night just to make yourself happy.
ANYWAY WHO CARES
did you get the connection..
And that does not mean that I don’t care. If I don’t then I won’t be defending the Chinese and make any comments here. Simple reason being that my children were born in Indonesia and they are Chinese, so their well being and welfare is of utmost importance to me. Such malicious remarks post over the blog could possible create an impression to those under educated Indonesia what was wrong is right thus the 1998 riot. He even went to the extent ot saying that a bigger riot will happen in 40 days come 4th November 2008. I am taking his challenge.
The last time when Amin Rais says he will lead a million people march to the Istana I took the challenge by returning to Jakarta to see what happened on 19th May 1998, at that time I was away on a business meeting from11th May 1998. I started seeing chaos over the media on 12th, 13th 14th and 15th. I was not able to make a flight for my family out of Indonesia because my children they were still young. I only was able to make my booking and flew back to Jakarta on the 19th when everyone was leaving. The same day I flew them out of Jakarta together with them on several flights that lasted till 3 am in the morning when our last flight arrive. By then the riot was over. I even flew the family of my cook out of Jakarta. Imagine the cost all first class.
Faggots
you know the meaning which mean I am calling him a gay because as you know people like him only wants to say what he likes to hear and wanted others to accept what he says to be a fact which is not the case.Maggots well you know are those worms like him lynching on carcass as though everyone on this blog are dead so he could write and say what he likes.
The Inside Indonesia link is also a misrepresentation and I am sure that PN hopes no one clicks on it and actually reads the article in full
this is actually what happens, so
Swearing at the man and vilifying others is hardly a way to convince people of your arguments
Does that tantamount to swearing?
He can give his very best to see if he could put me under his skin. Our law office did not lose a single case defending the rights of Indonesian Chinese.
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Rob..keep wondering..
You seriously were asking someone from the hospital to give a extensive reports on what happened to each and every of those victims of the riot?
LET ME TELL YOU THIS.. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED TO MUNIR…..
Well I think it is about time you replace Munir for a change, what say you!
+ R.I.P
And yet you profess that
the victims deserve some additional protection from further persecution) suffice
@!@ Dumb
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I think a new approach is necessary with people like you and Liaredion or perhaps PN.
I think I had found a new way to tick you guys off.
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Sylvester says:
I always say to you guys. Just ignore the bigot moron PN. At least just give a short comment = crazy. Make him just like a plankton screaming in the ocean. With this, he will never win. Because there are few people that no matter how hard you try to convince, it is useless.
To wish that Indonesian government would admit this rape tragedy is difficult. For many Javanese (not all I am sure), honesty is less important than maintaining their dignity.
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Sure, they all who claims nothing happened on 12 – 15 May 1998. They have no dignity, not even the least.
People rummaging through houses, carrying away every furnitures, belonging to those victims. What dignity are we talking about, and yet people got the balls to say nothing happened.
He may even say all of you guys commenting on these blogs are smearing the Indonesian ABRI, Police and the government..
Yeah Jusuf Kalah says nothing happened.
Habibie says nothing happened.
Wiranto, Prabowo saya nothing happeneds.I am out of words how to foul mouth them.
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Dragonwall….
Gee son, you got me by the short and curlies on this one. The one who has less of an idea here is you.
Yes, the hospital could release generic statistics for the days in question without having to release the names of the victims.
The assassination of Munir is probably not relevant to the May 1998 riots. If I am not mistaken he was working on something else that would implicate the armed forces in a different matter. Either way, the risks are great for all those seeking the truth with respect to the events of May 1998.
My original post was directed to PN and questioned what it would require to prove to him that rape and pillage occurred. I, for one, believe that it did. Unfortunately, you are to tied up in your own self-importance and anger to read and understand what I have said. No problem.
Are you a lawyer? Because if you are that is interesting. So am I. I have never had to revert to swearing in order to make my case or to name calling. But. to each their own.
Sylvester…
Your argument works both ways. You will never convince the extremes of either side of the argument to consider the alternative view. It may be useless but sometimes it has to be tried.
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timdog says:
Dragonwall said:
I am out of words
alhamdulillah…
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Hold your horses, pull your brain backward and take a deep breath to understand and counter reevaluate the question in particular and understand that as a whole. I try to put both of your questions and his answer in one and say what I think of him and you.
Yes I know, I understand absolutely what you are implying by questioning PN. Didn’t you get what he had said earlier that during the investigation nothing was revealed in any manner that says victims of the riot were raped. Which you state “Or would a local hospital releasing a full account of medical records suffice?
”
Now you get it, to him, to everyone in the law enforcements, the justice department, there were no rape, torture or even a riot as he claimed. So even if you have the record that shows it did, does that make any difference to him? Worst still if the hospital were to come up with something concrete, then there might be another Munir enroute to Den Haag and got killed on the way. He/She might not even make to the airport.I wonder if you have read the volunteer group that were investigating the rapes where one girl was met a rude awakening when her lunatic neighbor suddenly did something to her and suddenly the whole issue had to side step for a while.
Who is Munir and what was he doing?
You mean Munir is only working strictly on the case of ABRI involvement in the petrus killings and the so called missing dissidents? Because they were being held at perhaps ad hoc location by BIA or BIN. What does that imply? The involvement of ABRI but he insisted that there were no involvement of the ABRI of any sorts in thr riot let alone the MUNIR case. Everywhere they were trying to do a cover up so that no one gets indicted.
So you had witness how they silence a lamb.
What I am driving through to you is that you have been questioning and or putting forward a question of a blogger whom you felt compel that the person making a statement had to be himself and not incognito.
How much money you have in your bank? How much are you worth?
My point is that, be careful you could have your account wipe out in a libel or defamation suit. Dig!
I think you are still on cloud nine.
I have a MSc and a JD so? I am aware that a person need not have to foul mouth, nothing of any sort that says I swear, but I find it more fun to foulf mouth these loud mouth say all talk all nonsense kind of guy, ok.
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Dragonwall…
Hold my horses and pull my brain back and take a deep breath, wow! Perhaps you should practice what you preach and do some reevaluating of your own.
My point really is that in many ways you adopt the same methods as PN except he uses classic put downs that really do not rely on swearing to work and you cannot keep up. Sad but true!
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Ha.ha.ha…..I hope to continue what I like to practice the style I write. Certainly I will do some evalutaion perhaps to make everyone happy! I should use a wikipedia next time.
So the only difference between how he put words in comparison and that of mine constitute swearing..hmmmm..
AS used to, AAB, PN writes in sychronous similarity on words, I suppose they called it amusing. I said they used the dictionary, they said it is jealousy.
What will they think of next
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“Synchronous similarity on words”
Please use English, not Singlish- a sign in Changi Airport mens’ toilets.
Dragonwall- your obfuscation and confusion tactics are superficial, if you are serious.
If not- I admire your comedic style. Very authentically “garing” like a Cheenaman -
Lairedion says:
Rob said:
My point really is that in many ways you adopt the same methods as PN except he uses classic put downs that really do not rely on swearing to work and you cannot keep up. Sad but true!
Well said. Dragonwall understands the skill to get involved in a beef with virtually everybody here. It’s safer to bet on that then to predict the sun will rise tomorrow morning.
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“…excuses the lazy, vicious envy (combined with subconscious shame for being undearachievers by comparison) which so many pribumi use as an excuse…”
Typical Chinese racism as per their “one white covers a thousand blemishes”
Hokkien are infamous for their lies and illegal activity.
My Shanghai friend had this to say:
Hue lao an jian. Hue ren
“Hokkien di ren Zhongguo Ren: muo ming chi miau, hey shou dang, tao fei, bang pai fern tz, du ker, tou ji jer, puo hai jer,
shan dong jer, tzao yao jer, tzou syr ker, baw jun”
Easy solution- Chinese don’t like Indonesian culture, obeying Indonesian Laws, rules and Social Norms?
Go back home to the Mainland- see how the Han people treat Hokkien traitors.