Amrozi Execution
May 12th, 2008, in News, by Patung
Bali bomber Amrozi finds love in prison, and marries today, while his execution seems to be nearing.
Love
On May 12th condemned terrorist will re-marry his ex-wife Siti Rohmah/Rahma, who he divorced in 2000.
Amrozi’s lawyer from Muslim Legal Team (Tim Pengacara Muslim (TPM)), Mahendardatta, says the love between Amrozi and Rahma had been rekindled of late, because Rahma was a regular visitor to the Nusa Kambangan prison, Cilacap, Central Java, where Amrozi spends his days.
Once Amrozi is gone Mahendardatta says: inilah
That Rahma will carry on the jihad struggle, that is certain. But not as a terrorist, those who call Amrozi a terrorist, well, that’s you people [journalists].
Execution
Meanwhile it seems that the execution of Amrozi, and fellow prisoners Imam Samudra and Muklas aka Ali Ghufron, will take place not in Bali but in Cilacap, and the time is drawing near. Says Abdul Hakim Ritonga of the Attorney General’s Office: inilah
The preparations are almost complete.
The final decision to go ahead with the execution rests with the minister for Law.
Method
Mahendradatta of the TPM had requested clarification from the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI) on whether death by firing squad was a legitimate method of capital punishment within Islam. detik
After a person has been shot they don’t die for 5 minutes, so it’s torture, but if firing squads are deemed within the bounds of Islamic law [by the MUI], well then that’s it.
Impatient
Another TPM lawyer, Achmad Midhan, says he can’t understand what is happening with the plans for the execution and why the TPM’s third request for a judicial review of the case is being ignored. kompas
If they’re brave enough just do it now! It’s strange, there are over 90 death penalty cases where the legal processes are complete but the executions haven’t been carried out. The Attorney General’s office should respect our client’s efforts to have their cases reviewed.
Update. Amrozi wasn’t allowed to have the marriage go ahead in the prison, so the ceremony took place in Lamongan, his home village, and he was represented by his younger brother Ali Fauzi. kompas
192 Comments on “Amrozi Execution”
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Nour says:
Thank you Geordie for your reply,
These two statements that I made do not conflict, as you say. Please let me explain.
Consider the following verses from the Noble Quran:
“And say: “The truth is from your Lord, so let whomsoever will, believe and whomsoever will, reject (God). We have prepared for the Zaalimun (the unjust wrongdoers) a fire which will encircle them all around, like a tent. And when they implore releif (ask for water), we shall give them molten brass which will scald their faces. What a terrible drink and what an evil couch to recline upon” This verse is in chapter 18 (Surat Al-Kahf). This paints the terrible picture of those who are unjust, like tyrants, oppressors etc. And making partners with Allah is the greatest injustice.
Immediately following this verse is the beautiful end of those who believe and do good deeds.
“Verily, for those who believe and do righteous good deeds, we shall not cause to be lost the rewards for those who do good. For them will be gardens beneath which rivers flow. They will wear beautiful green, silk garments adorned with heavy brocade. They will recline therein on golden thrones (of dignity). What a graceful place and beautiful couch to recline upon.”
So now that this knowledge has been given to you, Geordie, you are left with a choice.
Our Merciful Creator invites us to a beautiful home of eternity. With all the delights and comforts that you can ever imagine. Beautiful gardens, rivers of pure water, rivers of milk, rivers of honey and rivers of wine (see Surat 47, Muhammad). Beautiful spouses better than the best models in this life. Mansions made with bricks of gold, saphire, emerald, gems etc. And the best reward for those who believe and do good deeds is to see our beautiful creator! What excellence!
The messengers and prophets were sent to deliver the clear message. After that, the people made their own choice and will either suffer the consequences or enjoy the reward.
But ultimately, all the events that have taken place in the past, all the events that are happening now, and all the events that will take place in the future were all planned and written by our Merciful Lord even before He made this world.
It’s called destiny.
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To NAD,
I just want you to know that I always look forward to hearing from you because you have a bubbly character and awesome personality (with knowledge to match).
I appreciate all your concerns and feel sad that you are leaving.
We want you to stay
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To Geordie, I have been looking forward to your posts since I met you (only recently) so thank you,
Yes, you are 100% right. Submission is nothing if it is forced upon someone. It’s coersion as you said. And this is even in the Noble Quran:
“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clearly from error. So whoever rejects Taghut (anything worshipped besides Allah) and believes in Allah, has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing.” The Noble Quran 2:256
So what you said coincides with the Quran, that force should not be used to make people believe. So, as I said, when people realise the truth of Islam, they are more inclined to accept it, inshallah. But it can only happen if Allah allows it. The point being is that we should ask Him for guidance, and be persistant, because no-one can force Allah to do something that He doesn’t want to do.
Yes, the Quran encourages us to “search” for the truth and choose to submit or not. Exactly. But this all occurs according to pre-determined destiny.
And Geordie, I seek refuge in Allah from ever saying about Him what is not true and I also seek refuge with Allah from ever making innovation. These acts carry a heavy penalty indeed. So I apologize if it seemed that way.
Yes, the Quran is full and sufficient for Muslims of all times.
I only made that analogy to give you a rough idea: namely that, if we humans do not make movies unless we have a script, how can you say that Allah, who is infinitely much wiser and knowledgable, hasn’t planned this world or knows the outcome?. To say that we are smarter than God doesn;t make sense. I never said that the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said that analogy (of the movie makers).
Again, I apologize for any misunderstanding.
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Geordie says:
Nour, no need to apologize I was simply using a debating device, unkindly as it turns out because I can see that you’re sincere and ascribing to you innovation was a low blow. In that regard, please accept my apologies.
In your first response above, I do indeed understand the rewards that await the faithful and the torture that await those who fail to adhere to God’s teaching. Got that but these are, necessarily, functions of true submission or the failure to truely submit, is that not so? Assuming I’ve correctly understood then, I can accept that God knows whether my submission is valid or not and equally that he can predict whether I will or will not submit but I contend that knowing what I will do and causing me to do it are two different things.
The Christian Brothers knocked into us the catechism which, theologically speaking, is about the same sort of thing though a heluva lot longer that the Islamic profession of faith. God does indeed know what’s going to happen but seeing as we’ve also been given free will He can’t influence our decision. Equally, I accept for those who he knows are going to be successful, He might make their submission easy, fullfilling and unshakeable. That would seem sensible, laudable even, because in this day and age when it’s fashionable to be cynical and religion is viewed as an anchronism, the faithful need all the breaks they can get.
I think where you and I fail to agree is in the matter of destiny; my view is that destiny infers an agency outside my control ordaining the path which I shall follow thus rendering free will obsolete and submission redundant. God, as I understand it, ordained that every other living thing along with supernatural beings would be natural Muslims; in other words by their very nature they could be no possibility that in so ‘being’ as they are, they could do no other than be as God intended, love Him above all else and fulfill their purpose as He wills. However, for the best of his creations, which he loved the most, it was decided that requited love would only suffice which gave rise to the ’cause’ of free will.
If, however, by destiny you mean that God simply knows the choice I will make without any interference on His part then, whilst I think that deffinition is inaccurate, I accept it works for you and is appropriate in the context employed. In that I’m damned/saved, was always damned/saved and always will be damned/saved and that that is of my own free will and volition.
For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not Christian, Muslim, Bhuddist, Atheist or any other religion for that matter.
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Hi Geordie, thank you for your response,
All forgiven.
You said:
Got that but these are, necessarily, functions of true submission or the failure to truely submit, is that not so?
It must be made clear that there are levels in both belief and unbelief.
As for belief, there are Muslims, Mu’mins and Muhsins. Muslims are those who believe in Allah and His messenger but generally still commit major sins. The next level up is Mu’min (believer) who avoids major sins but still makes mistakes. A Muhsin is the highest level, a state where he/she worships Allah as though they see Him, and although they cannot see Him, they realise that He sees them. ANd they live with this awareness.
In disbelief, there are those who act out of ignorance (without knowledge). Then there is the severe case of those who know the truth but work against Allah. This is clearly stated in the Noble Quran:
“Allah is the friend and protector of those who believe. From darkness, He will lead them into the light. ANd those who disblieve, their friends are Taghut (evil), which will drag them from the light into the darkness. They will find themselves in Hellfire, where they will abide.” The Noble Quran 2:257
So it comes down to choice, my friend Geordie, but our Loving Lord knows what we will choose.
Let me give you another example which may help illustrate this point (although I’m not the best at giving examples as you’ve figured).
Suppose you have a young child, about 6-7 years old. You offer him two things and ask him to choose. The first is stale, rotten bread with maggots coming out. The second is sweet, colourful candy. You, undoubtidly, know which he will choose although you did not take away his choice. He is free to choose yet you can easily know which one he will take.
Similarily, Allah has placed before us a choice: Heaven or Hell. Now, this is your choice. It is obvious which one a person with sense will choose. And, let me make a note, that everyone, by their actions, chooses one or the other, knowingly or unknowingly. This is a fact. Because let me share with you a beautiful fact that our noble prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, told us.
That Allah will not admit anyone to Hellfire until He has convinced them that they are worthy of it. He will look at all your sayings and actions, in this worldly life, which are kept in a clear record, and He wil even show you it. That way, your own record is proof against you or for you. And He is a Just and Merciful Judge, He will not wrong any.
A glimmer of hope is this. Anyone who says La ilaha ill Allah (there is no god but God) will be saved from the Hellfire, if he were to go there. This simple statement outweighs all deeds.
Speak to you soon inshallah.
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Nour, I do believe that we’re in violent agreement, moreover, I admire your faith and sincerity.
Religion for me is a pleasant mind game, a platform for an engaging philisophical debate in which I get to test my opinions and, where necessary, re-examine them. One can do this because all religions and denominations within those relgions differ so wildly and each convinced that it alone possesses the ‘one, true and only way’ to get to heaven. It’s so easy to take a contrary view and argue convincingly, from a theological persepective, on matters of religious observance that it’s hard to resist.
Faith is, of course, an entirely different matter and I will not question, doubt or seek to alter another’s faith in what they believe.
And on that note, I do believe that we can bring our debate to a close. Thank you Nour, I’ve enjoyed the exchange.
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To Geordie,
I understand that you want to bring our conversation to a close but there is one final thing I must say.
I realise now that I made a very unwise move to begin with, and for that I apologize. Let me explain.
There are 6 pillars of Iman (faith)
1. Belief in God
2. Belief in His angels
3. Belief in His prophets
4. Belief in His Books
5. Belief in The Day of Judgement
6. Belief in Destiny
Somehow we got stuck on the 6th pillar without giving number 1 it’s due rights, because without an understanding of number 1, the others don’t make much sense. So I am sorry for jumping to the most difficult to understand instead of explain the fundamentals, which are simple. What just happened was like trying to explain Algebra to someone who doesn’t know how to count between 1 to 10. Or trying to build a building without laying the concrete foundations. It doesn’t make sense.
We need to lay the foundations.
Sorry, my bad.
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Nour, again no need to apologize and I do get the point you’re making it’s just our definitions of destiny that differ. And it’s not necessarily that I want to close the conversation, it’s just that we don’t appear to disagree anymore so I’m not sure what we’d be debating.
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To Geordie,
Who says we have to debate? Can’t we have a fruitful discussion? I enjoy those 🙂
You say that:
Religion for me is a pleasant mind game, a platform for an engaging philisophical debate in which I get to test my opinions and, where necessary, re-examine them.
Well, religion talks about reality, it’s not really a mind game.
take for example these verses:
“In the name of Allah, Most Gracious Most Merciful.
When the sky is rent asunder.
When the stars are scattered abroad.
When the ocean is made to explode.
When what’s in the graves is turned upside down (comes out)
Then, every soul will know what it has sent forth and what it has left behind.”
The noble Quran 82:1-5
These tremendous events signifying the last Day are reality. These short, but powerful verses shake the hearts and detaches them from this worldly life and enables us to put our trust in Him who Sees, Hears and Knows all.
If there is one thing you can take away from this is that seeking knowledge is encumbant on all believers. Seek the truth.
Knock, and the door will be opened, seek and you will find.
Our Lord has many beautiful qualities.
He is the Eternal, Self-subsisting. He doesn’t have a birth or death. he is The First and The Last.
He does not need to eat or drink or sleep or rest, yet He maintains this whole universe with ease.
He has power to resurrect the dead, as He will do to all of us on the Great Day of Judgement.
He can see, hear and know everything you are doing even though there may seem to be no-one around. His angels write down in our records all our sayings and actions. We will get our records on the Day of Judgement.
Allah is more merciful than a mother is to her child. He cares about us and loves us and wants the best for us. So it is important to keep our relationship with Him very healthy. All else will perish except His beautiful Face.
He has created us for a reason: namely, to worship Him. Worship means anything that pleases Him, whether its praying, fasting, charity, reading the revelation, gaining knowledge, being good to parents, siblings, relatives, neighbours, friends, poor people, homeless etc. Even smiling is an act of charity. Even removing an obstacle from the path is charity and will be rewarded.
But the best deed is to declare La ilaha ill Allah (there is no god but God).
I advise you because I care about you, Geordie, and everyone here.
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sal_eyeless says:
I do believe, we are human, have no rights to put off “anyone soul”, only God can and should take it from us, as the time as coming.
The judgment for physical crimes goes to physical punishment. So, the judgment for soul crimes is the God Authority.It’s okay, if we compare that by the “punishment” over a hundred peoples who killed by Amrozi’s cs.
There are the same death passed by victims or Amrozi cs, but significant different of the situation of going to die.Victims never really know when they are going to die, but the executed man exactly knows when it’s time to die. There is no charity and love of human being.
SO, ERASE THE DEATH PENALTY ON THE EARTH.
The One and the same God we were praying to, send us rain to bad & good people, and rise the sun for every people-good or not good.
Please, love & care each other unconditionally-this is the one & only one way, to get the terrorism out off this world. -
navid says:
You mean you are a muslim, How can you pray? you are just a dirty minded bastard without any belief ;besure you go directly to the dippest Firing holes in hell,the big fire is waiting for you there with a nice smile like yours.
Let ‘s see, Islam brought peace and freedom for those slave and womans and also coloured skin people in Saudiarabia. Islam wanted people to live in peace and tranquility and gives no one the right to even “swear” at any one else. Where you have found in Ghoran to kill other people, A book that says you have not the right to kill even An ” ANT”.
There is no difference between you and Hitler- so mean you are.wish you Eternal “””Pain””” in the dippest and most terrifying places in Hell
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Nad said
No, no, no… Ahmadiyyah is.