The world’s billionaires, and which Indonesians are among them.
Indonesian citizens who made it onto the Forbes’ “The World’s Billionaires” list, out of a total of 1125 people worldwide: forbes
Sukanto Tanoto.
Sukanto Tanoto (Chinese name – Chen Jianghe), originally from Medan in North Sumatra, and owner of the holding company PT Raja Garuda Mas International (RGM International), leads the Indonesian rankings, as almost always:
Aburizal Bakrie, who only three months ago was named by Forbes Asia as Indonesia’s richest man, inexplicably didn’t make the cut for this list, and nor did Eka Tjipta Widjaja (Sinar Mas Group), and Putera Sampoerna (Sampoerna Strategic), both of whom were listed as being richer than Martua Sitorus on that previous list.
Well, I don’t want to make any comment on your “discussion”.
I only want to share my experience:
Few years ago I work in a company under Lippo Group, a big Chinese-owned company in Indonesia.
I have 5 local (=pribumi) friends, all well-experienced & university graduated, and 1 Indonesian Chinese, still in college. They work in the same division and the Chinese one became the supervisor of the team.
One day, the Chinese one complained about his income. He told me about his cheap salary, allowances, etc. A bit surprised when I calculated. The monthly amount he receive is more 40% than my pribumi friends who only receive salary without plus this plus that.
I don’t know if all Chinese-owned companies in Indonesia using this salary scheme: pay the basic salary to all employees, but give more allowances to the Chinese ones.
I inform you this fact, only for your consideration. Most of Indonesian don’t hate Chinese. But, when we got different salary due to our races, can we say it as racism?
Perhaps people in the world think that we rape and kill Chinese. If it is true, why now there are still many Chinese live (some in wealthy life) in Indonesia?
If we talk about the riot situation when Suharto resigned, not only Chinese were raped and killed, but also Indonesians (even more). But we know it happened because of political reason that controlled by ‘untouchable power’, not because of our basic nation character.
Otherwise, I have a Chinese brother-in-law and many good Chinese friends. Some of them even become my ‘very special’ friends..
I will give u a cold hard fact that you will live by for the rest of your life:
@Purba Negoro
3.5% of chinese indonesian controls 55%(old myth says up to 70%) of indonesia’s economy. If there should be an exodus of chinese just as jews in hitler’s times, your country will degrade to a state so low that ………………. in short, another african ghetto like Zimbabwe.
“For simple people, it is easy to blame the Chinese retail store owner next door when they suddenly can’t afford to buy their children’s milk.”
one more thing:
@caprigamus
I’ve had my share of being called “cina/cino” as an adolescent in a major city in Jawa and as an adult in Jakarta. Don’t give me that bullshit – you can’t imagine how many ppl(almost everybody) i know that hides/fled to safe havens for months during the 97-98 riots.
“hy now there are still many Chinese live (some in wealthy life) in Indonesia?”
-because we’ve established our livelihood(business empires for some) in indonesia. Haven’t u noticed that “our” best minds are grazing greener pastures in australia, states and even europe?
my hubby’s family sometimes call me ‘cino’ too, diego 😀 But it’s okay, they just teasing me. People here also refer me either as a chinese or a philipino. When I meet chineses, they start talking in mandarin language with me. When I meet philipinos, they also start talking in tagalog. Almost no one ever recognize me as indonesian/javanese until i explain to them.
@Odinius: what the hell are u talking about??
@diego: im not an idiot, i can distinguish racial slur from casual nicks or even habitual shoutouts. clearly u have never been in a position as i do, being treated like jews in nazi times. Called cina for bargaining house repairs, seeking sanctuary in remote safe houses during 97-98 riots, having to stick quran quotes on our front door to disguise ourselves as “one of them”. Let me tell u the list of casualties just from my side, IDIOT:
a) uncle’s house burnt down
b) father’s factory pillaged and burned
c) uncle, aunt and cousins escaped to singapore for a few months
d) uncle and aunt cease all business activities for 2 months
e) a distant relative in aceh bought ration cards in camps, which’s supposed to be free
f) bedridden grandmother, uncle and aunt has to move to safe-houses hiring mercenaries(in addition to permanent security guards) to guard the vicinity.
etc) o yeah and my cousin’s childhood friend got raped. since it’s not my side of the family, it falls under etc. U happy now??
Am i racist or are u just blind?? I suggest u stfu on things u have no idea about.
“For simple people, it is easy to blame the Chinese retail store owner next door when they suddenly can’t afford to buy their children’s milk.”
one more thing, diego, chinese have been suppressed for centuries – our mother tongue declared illegal for used, our literature burnt, our contributions being put down in the media, our distinct religions(buddhism & konghucu) not acknowledged …. in short, our way of life repressed. Although things has improved and laws has been setup to even out the discrimination after Gus Dur’s shortlived presidency, things are still pretty much the same in smaller cities.
Anyone apologized? Any university students gather themselves in groups and creating banners highlighting our plight? Does anyone give us sympathy even after Liputan6 showed a mob executing street justice on a biker just because he’s of a different color(yes, the narrator did point out racial targeting) ? No! No ! No !
For racist is defined as:
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
So how could i be called a racist if it’s true??
@caprigamus: let me add something that i missed on my last post, which might be crucial to understanding how the potential appraisal might work:
“They work in the same division and the Chinese one became the supervisor of the team.”
Does the Chinese guy actually know how to speak chinese?? Do u know that mastering the mandarin language gives u a huge plus in your resume when applying for management-leading positions(not jobs like clerks or other grunt work)?
then explain why Gus Dur is so desperate to curry indonesian-chinese favors during troubled times and even goes as far as claiming he’s a descendant of one. Hell he even condoned Christian as a religion, very contrary to the beliefs of his religious pedestal.
And why’s Chinese treated as patzzis in the last 2 economic crisis. Surely a great nation such as Indonesia could discern fact from fiction.
oo please ….. myth and half-truth. So why are these “myth and half truth” so believed by the unruly mob who targeted Chinese specifically blaming them for indonesia’s current plight. The Bataks are generally more well-off and refined than most ethnics as well, why not them(they even eat pork too)? Look at posts written by retards like Purba Negoro, it spells nothing but social jealousy. If ur too blind to see it, that’s fine by me. It takes one to know one and ignoring past crimes doesn’t mean the crimes never happened.
Why did the Germans eradicate the Jews during the early 20th century? Ah ethnic cleansing ….. sounds silly that more than 1/3 of the country(votes on the nazi party) felt bitter living with people of the same color(hell they’ve difficulty telling aryans and jews apart aside from circumcised privates). Social jealousy much?
Nobody would buy a false myth so willingly. All the tell-tale signs are there – singapore, elite housing, huge business loans, percentage of entrepreneurs, luxury goods consumers … etc. i wont discuss everything at length because obviously ur too blind to see.
The myth is there because it’s true. There are a few televised interviews from politicians testifying for this myth that would, at least, shed some light on the matter. One name i can pull out of my head atm is Prabowo, a former vice-presidential candidate. Surely he has done his homework to reproduce such statements, one’s intelligence which you are more than welcome to insult 😀
“For simple people, it is easy to blame the Chinese retail store owner next door when they suddenly can’t afford to buy their children’s milk.”
“Rumor, Albert, has a long history with regards to violence. Prabowo, I might add, has a long history with regards to violence too. ”
Rumor has its base on truth when coupled with a lack of motive, especially when racial targeting exists only in major cities.
“What was it Josef Goebbels, Hitler’s PR man, said?
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. ”
which proves my point further when this statement is taken into context – social jealousy. It has been documented well in the history books that the primary cause of resentment on Jews is their relative wealth compared to most germans, complemented by the fact that the German brain drain during the nazi era had its roots with the exodus of notable jews one of them notably being Albert Einstein. Both “rumors” have been proven as facts and studied as a phenomenon amongst historians/scholars over the years with books being published after many research.
@diego:
lemme recount a few things again: fpi is still there so there are people who are obviously happy having them around, i still get shit the last time i renew my passport & driver’s license, my friend still need to bribe for a marriage certificate from the head of community(RW), a few months ago there was another racial-targetting mob and none of them get shot or even beaten, my uncle still had to “pay” people to leave a piece of land he legally owned because that “people(babi)” had built a semi-permanent shelter there and managed to gather local support …. bottomline it’s 2.40 am and you need to open your eyes.
@odinius:
odinius, you don’t understand my point either.
Point 1) People don’t get jealous of others in a worse state. Indigenous don’t rob chinese stores by rumor. Rumor is intangible and assets is tangible; mixing both in a bowl breeds nothing but contradiction.
Point 2) I’ve pasted this phrase more than a few times, please stop repeating all these bull crap. “For simple people, it is easy to blame the Chinese retail store owner next door when they suddenly can’t afford to buy their children’s milk.”
Point 3) Chinese are like Jews in earlier stages of discrimination. It started with a rumor, followed by sporadic skirmishes, and finally escalate to full chaos. History have repeated itself in indonesia and, trust me, it WILL repeat itself in the next economic crisis.
Point 4) Our parents sang the exact same “rumor” to explain why they’ve to abandon their own houses during the 98 riots. In science, 2 positives make a positive.
Point 5) There’s a ‘myth’ that indonesian maids are petty thieves. Does it struck you as a surprise that 3 other countries picked up the same myth too? Personally the ‘myth’ is accurate to 60% but 2 of those from Philippines which i encountered served with a clean sheet. Funny how 2 countries equally impoverished could birth such disparity of morals.
Action speaks louder than words and the fat lady has sung her final sonata.
I don’t care if you are a native or not. The big problum in Indo is the people let the goverment take advantage of them. As soon as a goverment employee takes office he is out to line his own pockets. The corruption in Indo is holding it back and Indo is falling behind the whole world. Indo people know about the problem but they will not stand up and really face it. It is to bad because the Indo people are so wounderful and I love living here ( I’m a expat from the US) but I can’t picture Indo ever moving ahead untill it deals with the corruption. In the mean time Indo people need to stop putting the blame on one another think of the future.
Purba Negoro, i back your pardon, are you sure you were graduated from Monash U? come on PN. had you completed your study… Were you major in History? What AND FROM WHERE the info you get ,are those the history of propaganda… and not the truth history.. No doubt, Chinese were uninvited ,but most of them are not IMPORTED by the colonials as what you get it from you INFO… Most of them came because of the disasters occurred in the mainland of China, lack of the crops harvesting,the warlords system-killing happened every day, the pressure of life in China, and some even because of survival in need., PN they came with EMPTY HANDED, they didn’t bring 100 kg of gold. to south east Asia.They didnt know Indonesia Culture.communication broke-down.. and YET they can survive and now they are rich and wealth because of their hard work and thrifty . They created their wealthy by themselves. PN…. fact is fact… don’t xerox 100% from the European Writers…. You ,who considered as Truly Patriot, dont get only European writers points of Views. Perhaps you can get some points of views from the Chinese old generations why they came to SEA?? Ask the person who had wounded with knife stabbed , not the person who are health and unhurt hows the pain feels…. irrelevant , ridiculous . PN do not blame, do not accuse.. may be one day you will get a Daughter in law or son in law in your future under taking.– hahahaha
Congratulations . A Buddhist Saying goes ” DONT BLAME WHO PUT THE GLASS ON THE TABLE, BLAME YOURSELF WHY YOU TRIPPED DOWN THE GLASS” THANK YOU PN. THIS IS A NICE AND PROFESSIONAL ARGUMENT.
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Purba Negoro, get a life… I really feel sorry for you, honestly.
however, they are rich because they are smart, and hardworker.
at least more than you, I’m sure 🙂