Ahmadiyya
Jan 16th, 2008, in News, by PatungAhmadiyah makes changes to its beliefs and avoids being banned by the government.
Continued from Religious Intolerance and Banning Islamic Sects.
No Ban
Pakem (Pengawas Aliran Kepercayaan Masyarakat, Overseers of the Peoples’ Beliefs), made up of representatives of the Attorney General’s Office, police, the State Intelligence Agency and the Religious Affairs Ministry, decided on 15th January not to ban Ahmadiyya, despite a fatwa by the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) that had declared Ahmadiyya an heretical Islamic sect. antara
Teacher not Prophet
The decision not to ban the group was made after Ahmadiyya leaders caved into pressure and issued a 12-point statement saying they acknowledged Muhammad as the last prophet, and that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was simply a teacher.
Pakem however said it may change its decision if Ahmadiyya failed to fully implement the changes to its formal belief structure, and gave the group 3 months to do so. detik
Wisnu Subroto, the deputy attorney general of intelligence, said:
We will keep watching and evaluating their activities over the next three months. If Ahmadiyya fails to follow through on their declaration, we will discuss later what to do about it.
Jemaat Ahmadiyah Indonesia (JAI) leader Ahmad Basit said his group had the same beliefs as mainstream Islam.
Like other Muslims, Ahmadiyya followers also recite syahadat (the two sentences of faith), acknowledging Muhammad as the last prophet. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is only our teacher.
Ahmadiyya also said they would not try to convert other Muslims to their way of thinking, but said they would instead strengthen relations with mainstream Muslims.
Wisnu asked the public to respect Ahmadiyya’s goodwill and willingness to change, and accept Pakem’s decision.
Still not happy
However about 1,000 Muslims staged a protest in Bandung, West Java to demand the government disband Ahmadiyya. Hedi Muhammad from the West Java Alliance of Muslims said:
The Ahmadiyah organization is as heretical as Al-Qiyadah al-Islamiyah.
And the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI) leader Ma’ruf Amin said Ahmadiyya’s decision to acknowledge Muhammad as the final prophet was not enough to lift the fatwa from the group. Saying that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was simply a teacher could be interpreted in various ways, worried Maruf. republika
This article in Indonesian – Ahmadiyyah.
196 Comments on “Ahmadiyya”
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Mrs Salim says:
you are taking yur official line, i.e anyone who does not believe Mirza qadiani and has not taken his oath of allegiance ( bais) is KAFIR and outside islam.
Well, thats what all sects in Islam say, either they are Sunni, Shia, Wahabi, or anyone else. So what make US different?
Its mentioned on your official website too. Mirza ghulam and his son your Musleh Moud Mirza Basheerudin Mahmood DECLARED EVERYONE KAFIR even those who have not heard name of Mirza qadiani
Thats what your Sect say too, don’t they? I think it’s a good idea to read books by your wn writers too, whilst comparing.
Or let me help you, you might not know them.:) If you can Read Alislam.org then I am sure you can read these too.
1: Khutbaat-e-Tayyab by Qari Muhammad Tayyab Sahib <uhtimim Darul Aloom Dayoband. And for your more information he was also known as Hakeem-ul-Islam….
2: Taleemat-e-Islam and Massiehi AqwamYour false prophet interfered with everyone’s faith 100 years ago….:):)
Here let me clear you one thing Miss Basheeruddin.
Read Bukhari Kitab-ul tafseer Sura Al Jumma: you will know what Holy Prophet SAW said about advent of Imam Mehdi AS.Kitab-ul Reqaq chapter Sawaab,HazalUmmat:
Holy Prophet SAW said, “ My nation is like a rain about which I don’t know first part is the best or the last.”First is the time of Holy Prophet SAW, and last is the time of Imam Mehdi as. ….Means you are in none of them,..Baharal Anwar Book 13 page 17
Holy Prophet SAW announced acceptance of Maud, his accecptance and rejection will be his rejection….so I guess you are in second category.HijajulKarama page 351- witten by Nawab Muhammad Siddique Hasan Khan mutba shah jahan bhopaal
Holy Prophet SAW said, “who rejected Imam Mehdi as has commeted a Kufr.” So what are doing??? Insted of calling Ahmadies Kafir???? First look in your own collar.
Hadhrat Muhammad Ibn-e-Sereen RA writes about Imam Mehdi AS.”There will be one Khalifa in this Umma who will be better than Hadhrat Abbu Bakar and Umar. He said, its close that he might be higher in rank from some Prophets.” Only Prophet can be better than a Propet, not any ordinary man.Hadhrat Imam Baqir AS writes. “When Imam mehdi will come, he will announced, O people, if anyone among you wants to see Ibrahim (as) and Ismail (as) then listen I am Ibrahim and Ismail.And if anyone among you wants to see Mosa and Yosha then listen I am Mosa and Yosha. If anyone wants to see Isaa and Shamoon then listen I am Isaa and Shamoon. If anyone among you want to see Hadhra Mohammad Mustafa SAW and Ameer-ul-momeneen (Hadhra Ali) then listen I am Muhamad Mustafa (SAW) and Ameer-ulMomeneen.”
Hadhrat Imam Abrul Razzak Qashani RA writes, “ In later days which Iamam Mehdi will come will be under Shariah of Hadhrat Muhammad SAW and in knowledge and reality he all Prophets and Aaoliyaa will be under his command except Hadhrat Muhammad SAW.”.
What Islam are you following dear? Do you any history of Islam? I would advise you to start visiting library. About your comment in British Gov. I will guide you later as I think it’s already too much for you.
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So Sad to know that you guys cant follow even ONE QURAN!!!! Here you are arguing about few verses of the Holy Quran… Why is that? Is it different? REALLY….WHY? I THOUGHT QURAN IS THE BOOK, WHICH WILL NEVER CHANGE… WHY IS DIFFERENT IN YOUR SECT?!!!
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Shloka says:
@ Djoko,
Phew, long post indeed.I can’t read Indonesian at all. I am pretty good technologically so I can translate it(probably). Geert Wilders film is a bogus rant and has nothing useful to spread except hate and possible violence. In fact he’s probably looking out for Muslims to create violence\terrorism post his film so that he can indeed prove Islam is violent. Believe me, if I was Dutch Prime Minister or someone with similar power I would ban it. But you know the West has many such critics of Christianity making rants on Christianity as well. I suggest you read Sam Harris, ” The End of Faith” and “Letters to a Christian Nation” or Richard Dawkins, ” The God Delusion.” As for satires, the West has made a “Monty Python, Search for the Holy Grail” a ridiculous and rib tickling satire on Christianity long before it made cartoons on Mohammed. Indeed Sam Harris has a popular website, appears freely in public and received not a single death threat. So you see, the West, long before attacking or making fun of Islam, has criticized and laughed at Christianity. But when a Theo Van Gogh from Wilders country gets murdered for attacking Islam, when the West terribly enjoys a ” The Da Vinci Code” but a Salman Rushdie gets death threats for writing “Satanic Verses” the same West is perplexed, and then concludes that Islam must be a uniquely intolerant faith. It looks for reasons for that intolerance and finds these war like verses. Since you mentioned reading Indo, I did translate the “Insiden Monas…” thread on IM and found quite a few comments of “destroy polytheism.” As a polytheist, I sure found those comments disturbing. Have you read those comments on “Insiden Monas…”?
BTW, I think that Muslims have shown remarkable restraint in the case of Wilders film. Now, if only Indos( one of the most tolerant Muslim nations) hadn’t semi banned Ahmadiyya, if a bomb hadn’t hit Pakistan’s Danish Embassy and if Muslim terrorists hadn’t bombed Jaipur( India’s most popular tourist site which has never hurt Muslims and which isn’t a war zone) all recently I might change my mind about Muslims. Regarding abrogation “None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?” (Qur’an 2:106).
Another still-influential Qur’an commentator, Ibn Kathir (1301-1372) quotes an earlier authority, Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim, to establish that the Verse of the Sword, sura 9:5 (“slay the unbelievers wherever you find them”) “abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolater, every treaty, and every term.” He adds from another authority: “No idolater had any more treaty or promise of safety ever since Surah Bara’ah was revealed.” And yet another early commentator, Ibn Juzayy (d. 1340) agrees that one of this verse’s functions is “abrogating every peace treaty in the Qur’an.”
The Pakistani Brigadier S. K. Malik’s 1979 book The Qur’anic Concept of War (a book that made its way to the American mujahedin Jeffrey Leon Battle and October Martinique Lewis, and which carried a glowing endorsement from Pakistan’s then-future President Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, who said that it explained “the ONLY pattern of war” that a Muslim country could legitimately wage) delineates the same stages in the Qur’anic teaching about jihad: “The Muslim migration to Medina brought in its wake events and decisions of far-reaching significance and consequence for them. While in Mecca, they had neither been proclaimed an Ummah [community] nor were they granted the permission to take up arms against their oppressors. In Medina, a divine revelation proclaimed them an ‘Ummah’ and granted them the permission to take up arms against their oppressors. The permission was soon afterwards converted into a divine command making war a religious obligation for the faithful.”
So you see, the idea of abrogation is definitely there among some muslim ustadz. Of course, since Islam doesn’t have a Pope, one can interpret it anyway one likes. That’s good.However Confucianism, Buddhism, Christian sects like Baptists don’t have a Pope either. A disproportionate amount of women oppressing, death penalty for apostates type theocracies, international terrorists etc seem to believe Islam justifies their actions.
I don’t have a determination to hate Islam or Prophet Mohammed(PBUH). If Prophet Mohammed’s followers are tolerant, I’ll believe what the sites you’ve posted on your threads say about him. If they are violent, they blemish his reputation far more than Danish cartoons did. I’ll believe Ali Sina and his Faith Freedom then.
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@ Miss Rufo Bashiruddin,
I know this thread is about Ahmadiyya, you attacked Ahmadiyya and I defended them. You slandered them, I tried to show that those things which you say against them can be said against Islam as well. You asked me about my faith, does it matter? What if I tell you I was a Qadiani and have now switched to worshipping Santa Claus. No kidding, I have found my true God in Santa and his reindeers. I have bought a beautiful soft toy of Santa and now worship before it. I have realised that Koran, Ahmadiyya sects all have violence. The Muslims following Koran cause terrorism and kill non believers. The Qadianis disown those who forsake or marry outside the Ahmadiyya sect. But parents give gifts to children if they believe in Santa. If children stop believing in Santa, they don’t get gifts for Christmas any more. So Santa is not as cruel as Islam or Ahmadiyya . Just a little. The verses of the Koran you quoted tell me 47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom… and as you yourself said, if an Ahmadiyya leaves the jamaat she\he will be boycotted. But if one child stops believing in Santa others will still be friendly with him. I have not lost peace, I’ve finally found peace.
You call me a foul mouth, a devilish character, but just re read the verses you quoted. Non believers in Hell, fight kill and destroy them… they are far more violent than anything I ever said. So a person will be killed\burn in Hell for simply disbelieving not for any crimes like stealing, killing, raping etc and I have to worship such a cruel God? Accept Santa Claus before its too late, he’ll come in a chariot drawn by reindeers from the North Pole to give you presents! You’ll be saved from cruel Allah who burns unbelievers in Hell! Allah is such a jealous God, can’t tolerate people not accepting him!
@ Mrs. Saleem
So whats’ so good about smashing idols. People had great faith in idols, like you have faith in Koran and the mosques. Smashing the Meccans idols for them is equivalent to tearing the pages of the Koran, or destroying mosques for you. Holy Prophet SAW allowed all people to worship inside Kaaba regardless of culture but only after accepting Islam. How would you feel if Christians smashed Kaaba, erected a cross in its place, and allowed all Muslims regardless of cultures to worship there if they converted to Christianity?Otherwise, they’d be attacked and killed. You’d be outraged, and want revenge on Christians, won’t you? I imagine the idolaters of Mecca felt exactly the same, but were too powerless to do anything, as Holy Prophet and his army from Medina were too powerful.The people who worshipped idols were afraid of living in Mecca during the Prophet’s time,just as the Ahmadiyyas are afraid now!As for slaves being protected, slavery is a bad thing too. Did you know, King Cyrus the Great of Iran, 1000 years before Mohammed(PBUH) banned slavery in his Kingdom. Muslim countries were the last to ban slavery, Saudi arabia banned it in 1962, 100 years after U.S.A. Niger, Mauritania banned it in 1990’s.
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Lairedion says:
To all Muslims eschewing idolatry. What are you praying too 5 times a day? A moonstone in Mecca! Sounds like idolatry to me…
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@ Shluka
No people from all relegion were allowed to pray in Kaba’a. But Idol means, man made and how can a man made thing can give you sunshine, rain, day, night, sea, earth, etc.
Man made thing cant change seasons. In Islam Idols are haram, even if you love someone too much comes in this category. If Christians have Cross and Idols of Hadhrat Maryam and Hadhrat Issa as, they were never existed during thier lives…or did Hadhrat Isaa as asked his followers to start preeching Idols? Hindus, it is again the same case, Hadhrat Kishna as never allowed anyone to bow infront of an Idol. It is the same in all.
Slavery was banned during the period of Hadhrat Muhammad saw. Muslims used to free slaves with their ability. One of the Khalifa used to free one slave every month. If people started again, you cant blame this on Islam. Things happening in Europe or USA started now but any matter of life you name it was banned during the time of Holy Prophet SAW. again righteous people followd it and disbelivers made mess of the relegion, such like others. take an example of the Holy Bible, people read it but it is not origional. So how can one believe in it? People were never afraid to live in Medina or Mecca. and Ahmadies, who said this to you are afraid??? Let me asure you this, there is not a single Ahmadi afraid from anyone EXCEPT Allah.@Lairedion
In Islam, yes we are suppose to pray five times a day. But let me tell you one thing, No one prays directly towards Kaba’a, it is in a slight angle, and it was always like this, to avoid Idolatry. :> Have you ever heard what exectly we read in our prayers? If not, have a read through it and you will understand. It is a direct relationship of one person to his/her God. -
Mrs Simsalabim said:
In Islam, yes we are suppose to pray five times a day. But let me tell you one thing, No one prays directly towards Kaba’a, it is in a slight angle, and it was always like this, to avoid Idolatry
LOL, brilliant stuff! And how many degrees would this angle be? I’m dying to know so I can tell my wife’s granny…
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@ Mrs. Salim,
Hadrat Isa and Hadrat Krishna never destroyed anyone’s idols. Hadrat Isa lived in the Roman Empire, and the Romans worshipped many idols. While Jesus preached his message, he never forced the Romans or Jews to accept it by destroying their idols. The Buddha lived in India at a time when Indians worshipped many idols. He was a Prince, he could have assembled an army with greater ease than Mohammed to destroy idols, but he chose not to do so. He simply preached his message, it was upto people to accept or reject it. And you say an idol cannot give you sunshine, rain etc as it is man made. But how can you prove that Allah, who requires people to pray at a slight angle to Kaaba 5 times a day, isn’t man made as well?Why would the Creator of the Universe give out such precise instructions of five times\ angles etc? Surely any heartfelt prayer, however its made facing or reach Hin and he would answer it? Why would an all powerful God be so jealous of mere man made idols that he would require them to be destroyed? After all, prayer before non existant Gods is like adultery with a non existent partner. While monotheism has existed for merely 3000 years, idols of pregnant Mother Goddesses found in caves 25000 years old. The Ancient Egyptians who built the beautiful Pyramids, the Ancient Mesopotemians, Greeks were all idolaters. And these polytheistic faiths were more tolerant too, they didn’t kill non believers or persecute other religions. Nobody has seen Allah, similarly nobody has seen whether Gods resembling these idols exist in Heaven or not. Similarly superstitions are not reduced in monotheism, only concentrated in one God. Idols in heaven seem like superstition to you, similarly, an angel coming to illiterate Mohammed in a cave and preaching him laws about inheritance, marriage, divorce etc sound equally absurd and illogical to me. At least the Greek epics of Illiad and Oddyssey are more interesting.And finally if Allah had existed it would be enough for Him\Her to write a few letters in fire across the sky so that all 7 billion people on Earth would have no more doubts of his existence. Or he could appear in the Stadium during Football World Cup. Surely he’s powerful enough to do that rather than appearing to messengers like Mohamed or Ghulam Mirza whom most people in the world don’t accept.
Who said Ahmadis are afraid?You wrote in a previous post to the President,”YOUR PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF LIVING IN YOUR COUNTRY, PLEASE GIVE THEM SECURITY”
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@ Mr whatever your name is, this show your level of morality to Call people with funny names. I think you stick this to yourself!!! So for further conversation I would not like to talk to you!!!!
about prayer, I already asked you, if you dont know the prayer then listen it first then talk to me, but ignorance is still there.
Let me tell you one thing, Every single person in this mankind DO believe in the existance of One Powerful bing, and even if they dont say in thier everyday life but see them when they are having trouble.
All Prophets you have mentioned were for one tribe or few tribes, but Prophet Muhammad SAW was sent for ALL. That is the difference.
Man created football so they should sort it out, YOU CAN MAKE FUN OF GOD VERY NICELY.
When you are living in the place majority animals then you go and seek help from the high authorities. One dont start asking animals to become human, because they are already like that. That comment was a reaction of feeling the situation of Ahmadies living in Indonesia.
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Mrs Salim,
I’m not interested in your prayers, nor am I interested in the question if God exists. I don’t know and I don’t care. I put no stock in religion. What I consider “holy” or “divine” is striving for righteousness, goodness and protecting the ones who cannot protect themselves, be it animals, humans or flora. This is an ongoing process and I’ll be the first to admit I’m struggling, after all I’m human hence not perfect. The decisions I make every day will determine if I’m a good man or not. I’m not a coward like all those believers pointing to the Big Man in the Sky all the time and walking away from their own responsibility while prostrating themselves in all kinds of useless rituals.
A hard fact to swallow for those who base their lives on the notion “I’m right and the others are wrong”.
So what’s the angle?
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@ Mrs. Salim,
I think you wanted to address both Lairedion and me. You say Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) is for all tribes, but the Christians who are far greater in number than Muslims say Prophet Jesus is for all mankind and Mohammed is an imposter. And who says I don’t believe in God? I told you, I believe in Santa Claus.
PROOFS FOR ALLAH VS. PROOFS FOR SANTA CLAUS
1>One billion people believe in Allah. All the children of the world believe in Santa Claus . They are more than one billion.
2>The believers in Allah don’t have pure hearts. Many of them are terrorists. The believers in Santa have pure hearts.
3>The believers in Allah give more importance to faith than to reason. ditto
4>The religion of Allah makes people angry terrorists, causes death and makes many mourn. The religion of Santa gives everyone presents and makes everyone happy.
5>Allah testified to his own truth in his revealed book sent to his messenger. I have received a book of revelation from Santa Claus who testified to his own truth also and he said there is no doubt in it.
6>If you don’t believe in Allah he will send you to his hell where you will be burned. Allah is very cruel. If you don’t believe in Santa Claus, you won’t get any presents for Christmas. Santa Claus is not as cruel as Allah. Just a little.
7> Allah discriminates between boys and girls. He says women will get half the inheritance of her brother. Santa gives nice presents to both boys and girls.
8> Allah wants his followers to destroy others idols and temples. He’s very jealous. Santa’s followers also believe in others like Superman, Spiderman, Little Mermaid etc. Santa is not jealous.
9> Allah is obsessed with virgins. He says male martyrs will get 72 virgins in Heaven. Santa doesn’t care about virgins. He probably doesn’t even know what virgins are.SEE MY SANTA IS BETTER THAN ALLAH!
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Assamualaikum Mrs Salim,
Be strong. I am with you. Don’t let these infidels change your mind about Allah SWT. Whether they like Muslims or not, they are breathing in Allah’s air this very seconds.
Wasalam.
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Miss Rufo Bashiruddeen says:
Mrs. salim and Lairidion
We don’t worship Kaaba, we face towards Kaaba, I wonder what is the source of Mrs. salim’s comment…. may be her profit ghulam qadiani gave that reason ( a slight angle). Can she give us a refernce or source of that revealation…
Lairidion, don’t draw any conclusions, qadianis ahave nothing to with Islam. Just to help you with direction of Kaaba ( how Muslims face that), please have a look at the given link. -
Lairdion
I donno why that link did not work. Let me try again..
http://www.paktubevideos.com/index.php?playvideo=uZAlLtbGSdM
I hope it works this time.
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Mrs. Salim
1: Khutbaat-e-Tayyab by Qari Muhammad Tayyab Sahib <uhtimim Darul Aloom Hadhra …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………of Hadhrat Muhammad SAW and in knowledge and reality he all Prophets and Aaoliyaa will be under his command except Hadhrat Muhammad SAW.”.
Above is your quote from your post dated 12 June.
This shows how volnerable your logic is. It also shows that you deliberately and dishonestly avoided the AHADITh abouit second coming of Essa Ibn Maryam. The reason is simple, it will expose the false foundation your cult is based on.
First of all, all the quotes that you gave are not an authority for Muslims, These are neither from Quran nor from Ahadith. So Muslims are not boungd by those…
Secondly, even if they are authority or credible, how can you just imply that Imam Mehdi that is spoken of in those narrations is Mirza Ghulam qadiani…. His charactor is below an ordinary decent human being…What is your evidence that Mirza is that Imam Mahdi…. And if the faith of all Muslims is relying on Imam Mahdi, why is he not foretold in Quran ??
Now let me show yopu a glimpse of Mirza qadiani’s charactor.
1- “God named me Mary in the third volume of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. I was nurtured for two years as Mary and was raised in a womanly seclusion. Then, the spirit of Jesus was breathed into me just as was done with Mary. Hence, I was considered to be pregnant in a metaphorical manner. After a period of several months, not exceeding ten, I was made Jesus out of Mary by the revelation embodied in the last part of the fourth volume of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya; and thus, I became Jesus, son of Mary. But, God did not inform me of this secret at that time.”
(Kashti-i-Nuh, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 50; Kashti-i-Nuh, P. 46-47)
So Mirza mama got pragnent, but wait a minute, he gave birth to himself??? where does Imam Mahdi fit in?2- ” Remember that intensity that a man gets during Salat and remembrance of god that gives rise to inspiration and enjoyment or one feels pleasure. This is not evidence that this man has a real connection with merciful God, similarly if semen enters vagina and gives pleasure too; this will not be taken as the semen has been connected with uterus (conceived), rather there are separate signs and symptoms for that. So, intently remembering God which in other words can be called intensity is similar to the condition of semen that is dropped in the vagina.”
Baraheen Ahmediya, vol. 5 p. 192 in RK vol. 21 page 192
3- ” Man is compelled by many reasons to have more than one wife. For example if a man’s wife, due to age or disease becomes ugly, man’s sexual powers on which woman depends on, becomes dysfunctional or suspended. But if a man is ugly then it does not cause any harm to woman because the man has the key of action and it is in hand of man to satisfy his woman. But if man has faulty or less sexual power then according to Quranic command, woman can get divorce and IF MAN IS CAPABLE OF SATISFYING HER FULLY then woman cannot object that why you brought another wife. Because woman cannot be responsible and satisfy man’s daily needs, therefore man’s right to get a second wife remains intact. ”
RK v 5, ain kam islam page 282- Pdf 284 – 663
This is just the tip of the iceberg. The Mirza books are full of such hocus pocus. And you call him a NABI / Marry, Promised Messiah, Krishnan etc etc….
And I HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU ALL THE REAL OBJECTIVE BEHIND HIS ATTEPT TO DECLARE JIHAD AS ABROGATED. GO TO PAGE 5 OF THIS FORUM AND READ MY POST WITH REFERNCES AND TRANSLATIONS OF MIRZA’S OWN BOOKS.
FOR MORE,
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@ Miss Rufo Basheeruddin,
So whats’ so great in facing towards Kaaba? The All Compassionate All Merciful Allah should be able to hear your prayers whichever direction you face, shouldn’t He? Or does the Kaaba act as a kind of telephone, and your prayers reach Allah through it?
You say Mirza Ghulam’s character is below an ordinary human being, I say the same about Mohammed. Marrying 9 year olds, raping women like Raihana Bint Amr right after killing her husband and father, terrorizing people into accepting his faith, he himself said,”Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I HAVE BEEN MADE VICTORIOUS WITH TERROR (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.” Abu Huraira added: Allah’s Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).
As for polygamy, Mohammed allowed his followers four wives too. And he also allowed his followers ” women their right hand possesses” that war booty in addition to four wives.
Jesus claimed that he was the Son of God, but Mohammed made up that he was never crucified and Mohammed is the last Prophet.
I think Ahmadiyya should not be banned, because even though Mirza Ghulam’s claims maybe absurd and illogical, Mohammed’s claims are much worse. At least, Mirza Ghulam never raped anyone, marry his daughter in law, or loot other tribes.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
@ Shloka
You remind me of Dolores Ibárruri Gómez, la Pasionaria, from the Spanish Civil War, not because of her political convictions, but for her style and ardour.
This is meant as a compliment. Just in case. -
Miss Rufo Basheeruddin said:
Lairidion, don’t draw any conclusions, qadianis ahave nothing to with Islam. Just to help you with direction of Kaaba ( how Muslims face that), please have a look at the given link.
LOL, such is the mind of the True Muslim…
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Sibte Hussain says:
If Ahmadiyya are liars there is no need to do anything as liars do not get success. If they are getting suscess they must have truth. Moreover you must check if they are better people then you for mankind then they have the truth.
In the past Kaffirs used to fight against the truth if you are true Muslims you do not need to fight against anyone, if you have truth it will spread specially if you follow it and show example to the world.
In the past truth was always dangerous for Kaffirs and most Kaffirs tried to extinguish the truth by using violence.
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If Ahmadiyya is not truth then then what ie the truth> Ahmadiyya s are most peaceful and loving peope and 100% educated . Most organised. Spread in 190 countries, Have 100 time more success then Christian and Muslims combined in conversion. Of course 1.3 billion Muslims and 2.5 billion christians day and night trying to supress their teaching and truth that Jesus did not fly to the sky in human body and there is no proof and actually he died in Kashmir and his grave is there. Go to Internet site “Tombofjesus.com” to see his grave. All religions are trying to supress truth and fighting against them and still failing on every front. Why because it is Gods plan against Satanic ideas. How can they win against Ahmadiyya as Ahmadiyya is working for humanity, truth and peace and Muslims are using Violence and killing Ahmadiyya that shows their weakness. They have resorted to Violence. They dont know Islam is peace so God is with Ahmadiyya not with extremist and dangerous Muslims.
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Moslems are lowest people on earth and most uneducated. There beliefs are violance against all religions. I looked carefully Ahmadiyya sect of Islam is the most peaceful Islam rest are extremist, stupid and brainless
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Rambutan says:
Very educated post, Mr Snider.
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Qazi says:
The mullah-philes of Indonesia need to get their scum-guzzling faces out of the business of other people’s religious beliefs in the country. Every time they take to the streets to ‘protest’, all they end up doing is telling the world what a bunch of hate-mongering imbeciles they are. The blood and of all the members of the Islamic Defence Front Scum combined isn’t worth half of that of an Ahmadiyya.
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Ahmadiyya sect is ofcource nothing to do with todays Muslims or so called their Islam as todays frustrated Muslims are mostly killing murdering suicide bombing, burning mosque forcing others to convertn and persecution which has nothing to do with Islam or Ahmadiyya.
No Ahmadiyya claims to be Muslim like them and Ahmadiyya has never done single crime like that. Ahmadiyya is following original Islam
The Muslims are persecuting Ahmadiyya to become like them and start all above crimes or stop there religion. God forbid this is not Islam which means peace. It is just opposite Islam suppose to be peaceful not what general Muslims are displaying to the world.
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yasir ali says:
I believe that these Ahmediyyas have nothing to do with islam. Mirza ghulam Ahmed qadyani was an agent of British Goverment. And because of him…muslim faced lots of problems and difficulties. Just because of him Non Muslims used bad words about our Last nabi Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa sal al laho ali he wassalum. They are enemies of Islam and they should b treated like them. May Allah Keep us muslim always.
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Hey Yasir,
Again you are starting from the basics. You would be shocked if you know who were the secret british agents. First you read atleast one book of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian. Then you would know who he is. Don’t copy from others who have never read any of his books. They just copy what others did. Read one of his books.
Salams
Abu Khurshid -
Elijah says:
Although reason isn’t self-sufficient to arrive at conclusions about life and death,a rational faith must fulfil one requirement: it must not contradict reason.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in his book Aarya Dharam p21 gives a statement that a pregnant
woman can become pregnant with another child during pregnancy which is unscientific enough to imply that he was not inspired by God. -
Munawar Ahmed Kanday says:
To Elijah:
Spiritual facts are interpreted spiritually, and not physically. Read the whole book please to understand the entire contents therein. -
Oigal says:
It is a direct relationship of one person to his/her God.
Oh if only that were true, then you wouldn’t have FPI, buck toothed evil little mean preaching hate and destruction on others, MUI and other morons dictating who, what and how other should believe (or not).
Sorry, while the direct relationship..personal relationship statement is probably one of the most common uttered by the believers it is also the most throughly compromised by (one would hope) the minority thugs and bullies under the guise of the religion.
I guess the question is where are the true believers who are willing to stand up to those who render such statements as the above to meaningless drivel?
Comment on “Ahmadiyya”.
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@ Shloka
If you can read Indonesian, I highly suggest you download a copy of Quraish Shihab’s book ‘Ayat-Ayat Fitna’, as I recognise some of the verses you quoted there as being ones which Geert Wilders used in his video about the Qur’an as well. Plucking verses out of thin air doesn’t really say much as you need to consider the rest of the verses both before and after, the particular context said verse was revealed in (most of the time verses were revealed in response to specific historic events), as well as the context of the verse with regards to broader Islamic teachings.
Some brief rundowns of what Quraish Shihab says about some of the verses you posted
8:60 (the one about striking terror and so on)
– revealed in response to a group breaking its treaty with the Muslim community. Essentially telling the Muslim community that if someone breaks a treaty with you to prepare for the possibility of war. The way Quraish Shihab has interpreted it as well is that the ‘terror’ referred to here is intended as a deterrent effect, by amassing a show of arms such that the party which has broken its treaty will not go ahead with plans to attack. To put it in perspective its like the US, which in itself is not a warlike or belligerent nation, but nonetheless has developed a large and strong fighting force such that no country would dare think of attacking it.
47:4 (actually in the Wilders version it was even more graphic, being translated as ‘a bloodbath’ rather than ‘cutting off the head’)
– Once again revealed in response to events in the conflict between the Muslim community and the pagans in Mecca. The essence of the verse here is to disable an enemy so they can’t fight any more. Atskhantumuhum (the term here) is derived from the word atskhana which is used to describe something which is heavy, dense such that it is difficult to move or be moved. Thus the idea here is to completely disable an opposing force, to make it unable to ‘move’ or fight in this case. Of course one way of doing this is by annihilating another army, but as modern warfare has shown, cutting off an army’s supply lines and communications can force them in to mass surrender, achieving the same result. As Rufo pointed out, much like Wilders, you cut off other verses there which actually further explain the situation, as the first verse there refers to the Meccans who were not allowing Muslims to practice their faith. Here, the ‘unbelievers’ being referred to are not in a general sense, but very much those Pagan Meccans who were preventing Muslims from practicing their faith (its just a shame that the Muslim community nowadays doesn’t reflect more deeply on its history in this regard).
8:39
This was one of the verses giving Muslims the green light to defend themselves, after having being kicked around the ground for going on thirteen years (according to Shihab). Rather than saying this verse abrogates all other verses to do with non-Muslims, he actually goes to great length to understand it through several other verses, in particular saying that the idea is to fight until order and respect for ‘God’s laws’ is established (rather than converting to Islam as such). As God’s laws also include commandments for religion to not be forced on others, as well as that Muslims should respect followers or other religions (lakum dinukum waliyadin – to you your religion, to me mine), this hardly means that Islam has to rule over the world. As this verse is also related to the Muslim community’s conflict with the Pagans in Mecca, it is seen in the light of resisting an oppressive force which had been chasing and harrassing them even after they fled from Mecca (the Hijriyah). Fighting to ‘restore obedience to God’s law’ then is to return the right of Muslims to practice their religion in peace, not necessarily to bring about Islamic supremacy throughout the entire world (God only knows, Muhammad mightn’t have been too sure if he was even going to be able to return to Mecca by that stage!).
The above are more or less my paraphrasing of some of the arguments put forth by Quraish Shihab. I enjoyed reading the book, you can download it at lentera hati for free, though I think some people have uploaded copies of it as well around the place.
You just mentioned the abrogation thing there and I know it gets a run from time to time when it comes to verses about war and so on, but when you take the text as its meant to be – as a whole – where there is no canceling going on, as Shihab has done, you get a better picture of what Islam really does have to say on a particular topic.
Sorry for the long post, I just get a bit worried when people throw up supposedly self-contained verses and more or less end with a Q.E.D. Its a whole lot more complex than that.