Bahasa Indonesia
Nov 19th, 2007, in News, by PatungAustralians don’t want to learn Indonesian.
Australian ambassador to Indonesia Bill Farmer said in Surabaya on 16th November that in recent years the demand for studying bahasa Indonesia in Australian schools had continued to fall.
When Indonesia was ruled by Suharto learning Indonesian in both Australian elementary and high schools became somewhat popular but in the last 10 years languages such as Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Hindi had pushed Indonesian into the background.
Bill Farmer.
Farmer said this was because more and more immigrants were coming to Australia from China, Korea, Japan, and India, at least according to the report. suarasurabaya
Ever the diplomat, he said the decline in interest for learning Indonesian had nothing to do with Indonesia’s reputation in Australia worsening or otherwise, but was simply based on immigration trends.
According to a March 2007 report only 15% of Australian final year high school students study a foreign language, and of those only a little over 1% study Indonesian. abc
158 Comments on “Bahasa Indonesia”
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Wati says:
Bas,
We have a brain, sure we wouldn’t adapt into the mediocrity & stupidity. I mean is not bad to learn Indonesian language. You ask me what I have done to my country. I work here to help those Indonesian who want to apply a new passport. I help Indonesian workers who has a problem with the employer. I will not cry when I heard “Indonesia Raya”song, I would cry when I heard Indonesian maid being abused by employer. I would cry if Indonesian workers don’t get the wages they deserve. We also paid the tax to our government. I dare to ask the employer to send the workers back if they keep complaining. I am glad if you are ready to die for my country.
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Bas,
Kalau saya berotak udang, tentu saya tidak akan mendapatkan pekerjaan seperti sekarang ini, coz my brain eaten already by people like you.
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Janma says:
Awww… I don’t like the expat definition!
How come all the immigrants in australia we must view as australians? And in america, there are irish americans, african americans, italian americans… they are still americans. So I lived in indonesia since I was 22 years old, two of my children are born here, my husband is indonesian and even if I have a green passport I’m still an expat? Maybe the connotations to the word is what makes me dislike it.
I lived in my house longer than half the young people in my village have even been alive…. some newcomer from singaraja comes to live in our area and he calls ME ‘tamu’. I don’t really love it!
I feel like it’s hard to live here too sometimes, because I will never be more than a tamu. sometimes some of my ‘bule’ friends are really disappointed in indonesia because they lived here for so long, their husbands and children are indonesian, but they can’t work, they can’t own property (although they pay for it!) and they can’t even buy a car in their own name. but we all pay tax, we follow the laws and what happens here affects our lives as much as it does an indonesians!
Two of my friends who were married to indonesians lost their husbands. they both died young and then my two friends had to leave with their children because they had no longer the right to stay here without their husbands. Even the children who are indonesian are then forced into exile. their land had to be put under the names of their husbands relatives because their children were still too young.
So they left and went back to their country, they lost just about everything, because nothing was in their names. Their original country which they hadn’t lived in for 20 years, is just like a new country to them, so that’s a bit of a shock. the kids, who had just lost their fathers had to lose their country too. Needless to say it was very traumatic for all.
Yes I like it here because i’m out of the box, I don’t have to conform because I’m not indonesian, people expect me to be strange, so I don’t have the same constrictions on me that maybe someone who lives here in their own society would have. I like it because it’s never boring, people smile in traffic jams and it never gets cold. But it’s more than just that. Indonesia is my home! I wouldn’t know where to go if something made it impossible for me to live here.
Funnily, indonesians can move to australia, work, get the dole even! I know one tatoo guy from java who moved to australia got beat up by the bikies and now collects benefits from the government because he is ‘unfit for work’. He’ll probably never have to work again! He’s not called an expat though. he’s called an immigrant? So why can’t I be an immigrant? Why am i an expat? -
Aditya says:
Well Janma, there is a great deal of truth in what you say, and as much as I dislike some on Indonesia’s immigration policies, if you compare the uncontrolled immigration that has taken place in the UK for example, you will find Indonesia’s stance a good deal more acceptable.
I have to be honest and say that I find my treatment as a “tamu” to be rather acceptable – I get rather nice treatment where ever I go , and very little “Hello Misses”, but then not living in Jakarta and attempting to speak the language does help a bit.
Some of this discussion is very cyclic , expats complain about being treated differently only because expats in many of the bigger towns insist on behaving differently. -
Not many people immigrate to Indonesia, Janma…they just want to be a tourist, or just live here for a while during their career. Indonesia is not America or UK or Australia. So far we only have Chinese-Indonesian, Indian-Indonesian, maybe Arab-Indonesian and that is because their ancestors have been living here for years and years and years. I do have friends from Italy, Australia, Belgia, who married an Indonesian, lives here for 10 years but I don’t think they let go of their passport.
Which comes back to to the topic: Indonesian language is not that important to learn unless you have plans to do business with the government here. And you can pick it up quickly if it is only for day to day use.
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Parvita – Indonesian IS important and that is a bare minimum – ideally a working knowledge of “boso daerah” too.
How many times do you get the lovely smile and nodding agreement went the listener has not the faintest clue what you are talking about – before turning to his buddy and saying “embuh karo” ?
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Achmad Sudarsono says:
Woah, Parvita, you’ve got a few nasty attitudes tucked away back there.
See below:
Sorry to insult you, but this statement only translates to you don’t take enough shower after jumping from one metro mini to another and you are poor, doesn’t make you more Indonesian than real Indonesians. And masturbation counts as having sex. Sex with the person you love the most. Which kind of fits with your profile.
A couple of themes constant in your postings: it’s cool to have a lot of money. Having a lot of money comes from competence. People who have less money than you should shut up and listen.
I’m willing to go out on a limb here and make a bet: I’m betting you are the anak of a high-ranking Pejabat, probably at Pertamina. The combination of attitudes would fit perfectly. I’m also betting you grew up in your household resenting the drillers, mid-level ex-pat management, (mostly bules), but wanted recognition from the higher-level appointees at the big multinational oil and gas companies…
I think if we scrape away at your postings we’ll find a pure New Order bully. Yes, there’s a layer of feminism, yes a layer of nationalism and professionalism, but peel away and you’ll find an unabashed pribumi elitist. Now let’s go and read 19th century Indonesian history and find out who really sold out the country.
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P.S. not to mention who stole the most money in the 1970s – ie Pertamina employees…
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@Parvita: My German uncle had to wait for 30 years to get his Indonesian citizenship, he just got it last year. Imagine that for the past 30 years, every 6 months he had to leave the country to arrange his KITAS. No wonder lah not many people want to be Indonesian citizen, the process takes so long. It doesn’t matter that my uncle has spent more than half of his life here, married to an Indonesian, speaks Indonesian fluently, has been running several business and invested a lot of money, time, and energy in small city outside Java. Question: is he still an expat?
@Aditya, agree. Especially in Jakarta, expats tend to hang out in certain places and don’t mix with others. No wonder most of them don’t speak Indonesia.
@Janma, true our immigration rules suck. It seems like our government is more than glad to release their responsibilities once their citizen is married to a foreigner. So as an Indonesian passport holder, I’ve already lost some of my rights including owning a property. Lucky that now the law allows the children to have dual citizenship until they’re 18 years old. Who could blame that we feel our own government doesn’t love us?
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Parvita says that there are only “expats” in Indonesia – could this be because there is no immigration allowed to Indonesia ?
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Anita: Based on the definition, I guess he is. All the Chinese that came here at the first place are also expats. But then their decendants are not, because Indonesia has become their home. Based on the definition, refugees are also expats. Immigrants, people on exile, that too. Surprising, eh? I was surprised, too. I guess the meaning of expat then has shifted than the original meaning.
Achmad: Hi Achmad. 🙂
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Aditya: I couldn’t agree more. Knowing a little Sundanese was helpful when I lived in Bandung; just the commonly spoken level. But I don’t dare speak Javanese because I am afraid I use the wrong phrase, I don’t know which one is the polite form and which one is the common form! I would politely just say, “mboten ngertos, Bu” when I did my fieldtrip in Central Java and they smile. 😀
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Smooth sidestep, Parvita, I would have done the same.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
Interesting discussion here.
Besides bureaucratic paraphernalia like visa, what gives a foreign person the right to claim a living and be treated respectfully in a certain country (Indonesia in this case) and no longer be considered an expat (which seems to beget a rather negative connotation in this thread)?
– Being born in this place?
– Being of the same ethnic group as the majority?
– Blending with the local culture and speak the language?
– Contributing to the local community?
– Living with an indigenous spouse?
Shall we give karma points to each item?@Achmad. I’m impressed with your psychological insight.
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Parvita – use kromo inggil , you can’t go far wrong with that .
Interesting discussion here.
Besides bureaucratic paraphernalia like visa, what gives a foreign person the right to claim a living and be treated respectfully in a certain country (Indonesia in this case) and no longer be considered an expat (which seems to beget a rather negative connotation in this thread)?
– Being born in this place? Nah, means nothing
– Being of the same ethnic group as the majority? Nah, means nothing
– Blending with the local culture and speak the language? Helps certainly
– Contributing to the local community?Without a doubt
– Living with an indigenous spouse?You mean pribumi ? well I’m a pribule,does that count?
Shall we give karma points to each item?Gets a bit complicated@Achmad. I’m impressed with your psychological insight.
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wongcilik says:
Farmer said the truth. To me, the real answer on why other countries willing to learn Bahasa Indonesia (applicable not only to Australian but also to other citizens world-wide) when Indonesian’ purchasing power is increasingly high. Either as high as during Soeharto’ era or higher than in our past economically golden era. Pls do not debate me on the Soeharto’s political system but we focus on the economic purchasing power situation. When our spending power is high, we automatically became an attractive country to be a partner with in many aspects either business or tourism.
For example, Chinese Mandarin are widely adopted as a tourism second language, from the top of Alpen Mount Titlis or Jungfrau beside of the Swiss German/French/Italy you can find the Asian language translation only in Japan & Chinese Mandarin. Or when u come onboard for Rhine cruising on Paris & Frankfurt main river, you will find Japan & Chinese but not bahasa Indonesia. Only a very few wealthy Indonesian have the purchasing power and the size is too small to create economic impact world-wide.
Foreigners who want to learn Bahasa without his interest on our purchasing power capacity when he/she married with our locals or at least having Indonesian boy/girl friends, thus statistically it is very rare and this impact is negligible to motivate foreigners for learning Bahasa in AsiaPacific region or globaly.It is a sad matter to learn that we are the largest muslim country in the world but our Bahasa is exclusively adopted locally without regional & global impact. A wake up call for us to work harder in many aspect !
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@Anita: Let alone your uncle that immigrated here, think about the Chinese Indonesians during the Suharto time. Indonesia is their home. They have been here for ages, even during the colonial time. Some haven’t even been to China. Yet they have to change their names, have a certain certificate telling that they are Warga Negara Indonesia to get a job, school, etc. Ridiculous. Their KTP have certain remarks. Ivanna Lie, a badminton athelete, who won everywhere and made Indonesians proud (one thing we were proud of during those years), did not even have Indonesian citizenship! I’m glad that is over (is it?), although they still get some discrimination here and there.
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iamisaid says:
From what is reported in the article, what exactly is the Australian Ambassador trying to say?
It would be as good as declaring that the Nepalese do not want to learn Tok Pisin (the lingua franca of Papua New Guinea) or any other similar comparison that one may create.
What does the lessened interest in learning Bahasa Indonesia over in Australia got to do with the changing pattern of immigration in that land?
It is a given, as the Ambassador mentioned, that Australia is receiving more immigrants from China, Korea, Japan and India.
To acquire Bahasa Indonesia would be a last in the immigrant’s priority. That would leave the Bahasa Indonesia matter largely an issue amongst the Australians per se. Therefore, how is it connected to a change with Australia’s immigrant scenario?
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Bas said
The rudeness of the people, the discrimination, how they laugh at you, how they always try to get money from you, how they always think you are in search for prostitutes or blue movies”¦ bah”¦
This must be the reason why the Dutch in VOC times always carried a stick 😉
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One wonders what Bas is doing here – he obviously has issues that he cannot resolve.
dewaratugedeanom – you refer to the tongkat londo which in actual fact is nowhere near as efficient in dealing unruly natives as the tongkat madura.
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tomaculum says:
Australians don’t want to learn Indonesian language.
Why? Simple question, simple answer: because Indonesian language is very, very difficult.
The proof? Most of the over 200 Mio. Indonesians can’t even speak Indonesian properly.
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Moment Tom – that is really quite a weak argument – most indonesians speak a local dialect (whatever it may be) before they learn Indonesia .Let’s face it , to use your argument would be like saying it is impossible to learn English because most Australians can’t speak it –
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TheWrathOfGrapes says:
The value of a language is mainly its economic value. Much of the world trade, Internet and Sciences are done in the English language. Hence, the importance of English. Now, China is beginning to exert its economic prowess – hence the growing importance of Chinese (Mandarin).
Where is Indonesia economically? Besides, is Bahasa Indonesia adequate to deal with the modern world? I am not familiar with Bahasa Indonesia, but if it is anywhere similar to Bahasa Malaysia, then I think one should just give up on the language. If Malaysia has to resort to words like confrontasi, provocasi, instigasi, talipon, polis, etc – why bother?
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Aditya
dewaratugedeanom – you refer to the tongkat londo which in actual fact is nowhere near as efficient in dealing unruly natives as the tongkat madura.
I want one for dealing with unruly Australians.
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TheWrathOfGrapes Says:
The value of a language is mainly its economic value. Much of the world trade, Internet and Sciences are done in the English language. Hence, the importance of English. Now, China is beginning to exert its economic prowess – hence the growing importance of Chinese (Mandarin).
Where is Indonesia economically? Besides, is Bahasa Indonesia adequate to deal with the modern world? I am not familiar with Bahasa Indonesia, but if it is anywhere similar to Bahasa Malaysia, then I think one should just give up on the language. If Malaysia has to resort to words like confrontasi, provocasi, instigasi, talipon, polis, etc – why bother?
Your not familiar with the language so how can you comment? You don’t even seem to be aware of the connexions between the two languages !
There are people (plenty) who make a very nice living in Indo, some speak Indonesian , some do not – unless you are in any way involved then “why bother”?
I agree that mandarin has some value and intend to indulge a little – but the Chinese tiger will stop roaring and start coughing as soon as the west gets wise and makes the playing field a bit more level.
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Your not familiar with the language so how can you comment? You don’t even seem to be aware of the connexions between the two languages !
Aditya, I am not a mechanic, but when I see a car backfiring, I know there is something wrong with the car. Can I comment on the smoky exhaust? Anyway, I am familiar with Bahasa Malaysia and I believe they are quite similar – that is, they are both equally not geared to the modern economy with technological and scientific terms “borrowed” liberally from the English language.
There are people (plenty) who make a very nice living in Indo, some speak Indonesian , some do not – unless you are in any way involved then “why bother”?
Boy, you are parochial, aren’t you? I am talking about the global economy. Sure, there are people making good living in Indo. Sure, they are expat in Ethopia too. They are even expats learning Swahili and Urdu, but we are talking about learning a commercially useful language. Which is why the Aussies are now learning Chinese and not Bahasa Indo.
I agree that mandarin has some value and intend to indulge a little – but the Chinese tiger will stop roaring and start coughing as soon as the west gets wise and makes the playing field a bit more level.
Not so soon. You ain’t seen nothin’ yet of the Chinese economy. Even if the Chinese economy were to grind to a halt today, it will still be a huge economy compared to Indonesia’s. It will still have US$1.3 trillion in reserve and it will still be a market of 1.3 billion consumers. The tiger will stop roaring, only because it will be transformed into a soaring dragon. The coughing you have observed is the start of fire coming out of its mouth. Exactly, the west should get wise. And how do you think they are getting wise and getting to know the Chinese and Chinese way of doing things? By learning the Chinese language, of course!
Am I allowed to comment? Or do you decide who can have their say in this public forum?
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Ronald says:
i’m indonesian, i love my country and i don’t care if sometime in the future bahasa indonesia will extinct. I only care about how Indonesia becomes a developed country no matter what language my country use.
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Dragonwall says:
How about Hindi..u no.. pahe makan jahe..ha.ha.ha..
But seriously I think more likely the Indonesian National language would be turned into Jawi in view of that much educated clerics..like Sunskrit and turned towards Nepal.. So start taking up Jawi or Sunskrit.
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Bruce says:
As an Australian living in Singapore who has made a determined effort to learn both Malay and Indonesian, I was disappointed to read that my fellow countrymen are no longer interested in learning the language.
As Australians, we should be making an effort to learn the language of one of our nearest northern neighbours.
After years of persistence, I can now read Indonesian and Malay newspapers, and follow Indonesian TV programmes, soaps, movies etc. Unfortunately, many of the latter can be boring (actually, Malay programmes are worse), so I can understand how other people might give up. But to learn, you really need to mix with (non-English speaking) Indonesians, and that is not always easy for foreigners. But once you become fluent, the rewards are very great indeed.
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Sorry, should’ve been: So, who am I supposed to hang out more with again?