Bahasa Indonesia
Nov 19th, 2007, in News, by PatungAustralians don’t want to learn Indonesian.
Australian ambassador to Indonesia Bill Farmer said in Surabaya on 16th November that in recent years the demand for studying bahasa Indonesia in Australian schools had continued to fall.
When Indonesia was ruled by Suharto learning Indonesian in both Australian elementary and high schools became somewhat popular but in the last 10 years languages such as Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Hindi had pushed Indonesian into the background.
Bill Farmer.
Farmer said this was because more and more immigrants were coming to Australia from China, Korea, Japan, and India, at least according to the report. suarasurabaya
Ever the diplomat, he said the decline in interest for learning Indonesian had nothing to do with Indonesia’s reputation in Australia worsening or otherwise, but was simply based on immigration trends.
According to a March 2007 report only 15% of Australian final year high school students study a foreign language, and of those only a little over 1% study Indonesian. abc
158 Comments on “Bahasa Indonesia”
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Achmad Sudarsono says:
Parvita,
The real world is one where you embrace the Pancasila and celebrate the values of the UUD, not work for the Bule and help him dominate tanah air. Friend, Article 33 of the constitution says the land and sea resources should be managed for the benefit of the people, not to just go scuba diving and buy makeup and dugem all the time. oke friend ?
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Pena Budaya says:
dewaratugedeanom said
we should strive to have our language admitted as an official UN language, because it would undoubtedly promote peace, love and understanding among the nations and cultures of the world.
Thanks for supporting the idea. I have to say that I am bit frustated with UN systems. Official languages in its system are showing how influence the country to the organ could be. It has also influenced its recruitment system as well that person to be hired internationally as ‘policy makers posts’ by UN has two speak at least two official UN languages in which the option would be only Arabic, French, English, Chinese, Spanish and German. There is no representation for SEA´languages at UN.
To be acknowledged as international language it means to have strong political influence in the world not how easy the languages to be learned / Knowing how complicated French and German to be learned was and how powerful these countries in international policies making…
Anyway, just a thought…
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Tammy Ho says:
Achmad,
So you suggest us to work at such places like Bakrie? Or at government which often sell their own soul and dignity for money, bend over a lot so Carrefour can be placed in the middle of the city without having proper access and parking space and at the end kill the toko kelontong/small shops owned by poor people? Or Pemda which charges hundreds of millions so one advertising banner can be put dangerously somewhere in the middle of the road without thinking about its consequences to drivers? Come on…. -
abdulkadir says:
Becomes indonesian i’am very proud! I am able to speaks 5 languange(indonesia, java, sunda, english, bali). Then australian only 2 (english and stup…y),
gday mates! -
Bas says:
“An expat male living in a real world in Indonesia sounds like an oxymoron to me.”
Hmm It seems you should try to mix with non-expat “bule”. Well it difficult to find…
To tell me I am an expat is an insult to me. Just for you information: I ride metromini everyday, I never enter a bar or a discotek in 10 years, have had no sex at all in almost 3 years (and yes I live in Jakarta, and no I am not ugly or old) and I rent a room in a Javanese family with the toilets outside the room. Never a girl came to my place.I also lived for long in Semarang and Jogja and yes I still think people are really very impolite! I think you just don’t know how it is to be a bule (not an golden lifed expat) in Indonesia. The rudeness of the people, the discrimination, how they laugh at you, how they always try to get money from you, how they always think you are in search for prostitutes or blue movies… bah… no need to be a foreigner to see that. Can people here can “tunggu giliran kalau ngantri?” (sorry i don’t know how to say that in english), do the cashier say “hello” and thank you at the supermarket? No, no… 100% impolite, no education, no respect for other people. You may be the only Indonesian not to see it dear 🙂
And I don’t want you to hide behind the famous “But all Indonesia are not like that”… 😉
I know that, but that is not an excuse in any way.
Hmmm you are not talking about language anymore here..
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Teng says:
I never enter a bar or a discotek in 10 years, have had no sex at all in almost 3 years (and yes I live in Jakarta, and no I am not ugly or old) and I rent a room in a Javanese family with the toilets outside the room. Never a girl came to my place.
Sounds like a rather boring life 😉
Bas is right about the discrimination though. You will always be discriminated as a bule in Indonesia… both negative and positive. But no matter how long you live there, no matter how well you speak the language, adapt to Indonesian culture.. marry an Indonesian wife, have children… you’ll always be a bulek.
In Holland people there’s also discrimination… but in general a person with yellow skin or black skin is also considered Dutch. People of Chinese, Indonesian or African heritage are simply considered Dutch. In Indonesia that’s just not the case
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panera says:
Im agree with you BAS, I lived in Indonesia half of my life I didn’t find Indonesian specialy the peoples that I don’t know very well, or just simply stranger.Im not agree if peolpes in Indonesia are sopan santun. most of them are very discriminated againt the city where I come from.And they always meyamaratakan base on the city origin.Very rude and to much basa basi.Most people do not know how to stay on line and take turn when they in the bank or any other place that requare que- que. there was a time that I was waiting in line for good 45 munite or even more, but all of suden this paople just cut in fron of me wa-lah.One time I met Indonesian lady when I talked to her in BI she claim that she is no longer remember how to speak bahasa. meant while I left Indonesia longer than she was. what that tell you people, BI is not language that everybody want to use to comunicate with.
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Yes Teng, very boring life. But seeing expats and ayam just make me sick. What’s more just remembering the traffic jam make makes me fell I am better at home.
Negative discrimination, positive ones too, that’s true (but much more negative ones). Even by people who were not even born when you were already in Indonesia 🙂
I read about an interesting statement about a bule living in Japan. He said when he could spoke a little Japanese the locals were very pleased with it and they always said he spoke good Japanese. But when he happened to really master the language after years in the country, the people not only didn’t praise his Japanese anymore but they seemed unhappy with a bule speaking Japanese like a Japanese. Bule must keep being bules.
Sometimes I feel it a little bit in Indonesia. A bule is interesting as long as he keep being a bule as stereotyped by most of people. People here love bules who can speak bad Indonesian and who don’t really know much about the reality of the country and its ORBAistic culture. When you say you are here for xx years, most of them lost interest for you (especialy girls!). Sure they do, they know YOU KNOW… The chances they can get money from you are very thin.
The better you speak Indonesia the less praises you get. The longer you stay the less interest you got. Does anybody else has the same feeling?
Another thing is people, even well educated ones, who can not refrain using English with you even if they know that you do not speak english and that you speak fluent Indonesia. The concept of an Indonesian speaking bule who cannot speak English is just not understandable for them.
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Tammy,
Exactly, the Carrefour shunts aside the toko-toko kecil. It violates the principle of Marhaenist. Only when we unite to combat the bule will we have justice. Pak Ical is a good Muslim and builds many mosque. Better to have a konglomerat who will one day face Allah than an infidel who is going to the bad place once he or she dies.
Oke Friend ?
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Oigal says:
Look at all the sins of syntax like dangling modifiers, noun-verb disagreement, improper use of apostrophes etc. Oigal is one of the worst offenders because he’s permanently drunk and writes from Blok M,
In fact Ass Mad is about 50% correct there, my english writing is probably fairly poor. Unfortunately, not all of us had mommy and daddy to plant the silver spoon squarely up the rear orifice and a government (tax payer) funded university education. It may as a surprise to some but not all “bule” are born rich but at lot of us have worked our whole lives and self educated along the way as best we could (with varing success). We are therefore not ashamed at being able to have a few drinks and enjoy life as we get older. So as much as I would like to use the “I was drunk” excuse for poor syntax etc, I am afraid I cannot.
So in response ..stick your academic snobbery right next to the spoon and don’t wriggle.
Everyone is in contol of their own destiny so I am always surprised at comments like To tell me I am an expat is an insult to me. Just for you information: I ride metromini everyday, I never enter a bar or a discotek in 10 years,
(not an golden lifed expat)Never sure what is going on there, are they jealous because someone is working and making a good living? Don’t like someone having a drink or a few laughs? or is there some sort on inverse pride about being on the bones of your arse thing going on there.
Hey its just me, but no sex for three years and never going to bar for 10 years doesn’t sound like utopia. I have to say Bas does not sound very happy, perhaps its time for a drink and a few laughs..my shout! (that’s slang for I’ll buy) but ass-mad you are not invited as I prefer not to buy drinks for those with their nose in the tax payer trough (perhaps Ross is not busy?).
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Falcon says:
Australians do not have to learn Bahasa Indonesia nor do all those foreigners who are earning their living in Indonesia. What is the point of learning something that is not functional in our daily life, time otherwise is spent better on something that is more constructive. But i know plenty of Japanese and Koreans who devoted their times learning to speak Indonesians since they have an active conversation with Indonesia workers. Fluent or not conversing in any foreign language is unimportant, it is better one understands something more instead of knowing nothing. The only people who take deep pride in their language in their own country seriously is the French. But knowing Bahasa is good especially if I like to say something that is discomforting to the ears who do not comprehend Bahasa. I am at a advantage.
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Oigal,
Actually, your writing seems fine to me. Elsewhere I praised it as clear. It’s a fair point about people using “correct” notions of English as a tool of snobbery, though. But it’s a fine line; you need to have standards, but also remember they’re just conventions and not hard-and-fast rules.
The only rule is that we Indonesians must unite to evict the Bule. No ?
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P.S. Also, Oigal, anyone who writes well probably had to unlearn what they learned at so-called taxpayer funded education, or any universities at all. Offensive writing is rife in Academia. Pompous, long-winded, confusing, and infuriatingly obscure English seems to be a requirement for professors. So most decent writers are self-taught and self educated as well. It’s not something that just happens by osmosis from a PHD.
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Janma says:
an hour after I wrote that, I don’t understand the Terry McCarthy joke… I got it! was in a meeting with a client and suddenly exclaimed “Terry McCarthy, of course!” LOL
Janma
*As slow as a wet week* -
Cukurungan says:
Achmad Sudarsono said:
The only rule is that we Indonesians must unite to evict the Bule. No ?
ME:
No friend we have to make bit a revision in our mission…please don’t eject all the bule because we still need bule males for scavenger of our kampungan girls and don’t forget bule is a goods watchdog of hygiene and quality for our kitchen and foods.
But you should keep your eyes on “BAS” he could be one of an under cover of France Secret Agents who trying to steal our indigenous UFO technology.
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Cukurungan,
Friend,
I am glad my efforts to educate Indonesia Matters posters are starting to pay off. After informing you about the way of the Bule, I will tell you about alien-government collaboration and the real story about the theft of the statues. Why would anyone want to steal them if they didn’t contain alien technology ? You know, Friend ?
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dewaratugedeanom says:
Pena Budaya said
To be acknowledged as international language it means to have strong political influence in the world not how easy the languages to be learned
I heard that Bahasa Indonesia (or bahasa Melayu) ranks as the 4th most spoken language in the world. If this is the case and the fact that it is not an official UN language gives us a clue about Indonesia’s perception on the global scene, notwithstanding the general recognition of its cultural heritage and natural resources.
Bas’s comments on racist prejudice towards bule sound true and sincere. It must be a saddening experience if one is considered just an oddity or a walking wallet. Even more so when a foreign person commits him/herself to integrate and speak the language. If Indonesia wants to be taken serious internationally, some honest introspection is definitely needed and the quality of many orang Indonesia certainly needs substantial uplifting. Even in other ASEAN nations the average Indonesian is considered a rude and retarded underdog.
I wonder how things would have been at the time of Majapahit.
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Djoko says:
Bas’s comments on racist prejudice towards bule sound true and sincere. It must be a saddening experience if one is considered just an oddity or a walking wallet. Even more so when a foreign person commits him/herself to integrate and speak the language. If Indonesia wants to be taken serious internationally, some honest introspection is definitely needed and the quality of many orang Indonesia certainly needs substantial uplifting.
dewa, except for the walking wallet bit, I could substitute any minority in the world (including in Western countries) for ‘bule’ and the same would hold true. Foreigners and migrants in Western countries also often try and commit themselves to learning the language there and still are often seen as decidedly foreign no matter how fluent they become. You can even be born and raised over there to migrant parents and still be considered foreign. So its hardly an Indonesian-only issue.
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Djoko,
Exactly. The Bule will never admit anyone as equal unless he has skin like an Albino or someone who a vampire has drained all the blood from, just like Belanda drained the blood from Indonesia. You know it’s true, Friend.
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If Indonesia wants to be taken serious internationally, some honest introspection is definitely needed and the quality of many orang Indonesia certainly needs substantial uplifting. Even in other ASEAN nations the average Indonesian is considered a rude and retarded underdog.
We do not need that kind of bul**it if we want to be taken serious internationally here below we go:
1) Withdraw or dismiss from any free trade agreement with any country
2) Develop nuclear Bomb
3) Develop or buy as much as we can the Long Range Rocket at least capable carrying a small atomic bomb.
4) Develop or buy as much as we can submarine ship -
Wati says:
I don’t bother the Australian don’t want to learn Indonesian language. For those bules who says that Indonesian peoples are impolite and penuh basa basi, why you people still want to stay and work in Indonesia. You people can go and find a nicer country to stay. I am Indonesian working in Malaysia, I have to adapt with my new society here (tahu dirilah). I learn Malay language & their tradition also, coz I stay in their country.
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You can even be born and raised over there to migrant parents and still be considered foreign. So its hardly an Indonesian-only issue.
Although this is indeed true is some cases, a chinese person is not constantely called “yellow”, or a brown person a “brownie”. In Indonesia you will always be a bulek till the day you die.
I work with people of Chinese, Indonesian, Turkish, Maroccan and African decent.. yet never have I considered them a “foreigner”… let alone made remarks bout their skincolor
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“I don’t bother the Australian don’t want to learn Indonesian language. For those bules who says that Indonesian peoples are impolite and penuh basa basi, why you people still want to stay and work in Indonesia. You people can go and find a nicer country to stay. I am Indonesian working in Malaysia, I have to adapt with my new society here (tahu dirilah). I learn Malay language & their tradition also, coz I stay in their country.”
Typically the kind of speech you can hear from the people who make Indonesia a bad place to live in: “If you don’t like what you see, just go away”.
Sorry Wati, even if I am totally unhappy here I won’t go away because of people like you. You will have to change. Not me to adapt mediocrity and stupidity. Saya sangat keras kepala 😉 What’s more I fell I deserve much more to live here than you. What did you do for your country? Go to Malaysia? If you could you’d probably flight to the US or Europa. Do you cry when you hear “Indonesia Raya”? For sure you don’t. You fell you know Indonesian culture? You probably know nothing except empty rituals. And your parents probably don’t know more than you. Ask people like me to leave? I have probably invested much more of my time, health and money for Indonesia than you’ll ever do. You really have no shame asking people like me to leave.
If you want me to leave you’ll will have to kill me. And you probably don’t have the courage to do that. And believe me I am totally ready to die for that country, do you?If you were in front of me, never you would dare telling me to leave.
People with no idealism, those who have forgotten the true values of the their ancestral culture will never understand why some westerners who could have wealthy life in the West accept to live near poverty in Indonesia… Kejarlah harta sampai puas di Malaysia. Sekaya apa pun loe akan tetap manusia berotak udang…
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Aditya says:
From Bas the proclaimed master of BI
Saya sangat keras kepala
Well yes – I think you made your point.
If you want me to leave you’ll will have to kill me
I’m sure with that attitude someone will oblige.
If you were in front of me, never you would dare telling me to leave.
Well I think you made then extent of your abilities clear in BI , I assume that English is a second or third language for you?
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parvita says:
Basi,
Typically the kind of speech you can hear from the people who make Indonesia a bad place to live in: “If you don’t like what you see, just go away”.
Wati has a point. Not only Indonesian. Even a South Carolinian told this to a Northwesterner when they complained about how slow things go on in SC. Say, if you are in a party, and everybody there is not pleasant to you, wouldn’t you leave unless you are a waiter? Or because the party is the safest place to hide?
And now it is wrong for Indonesian to be expats? Coming from an expat?
To tell me I am an expat is an insult to me. Just for you information: I ride metromini everyday, I never enter a bar or a discotek in 10 years, have had no sex at all in almost 3 years (and yes I live in Jakarta, and no I am not ugly or old) and I rent a room in a Javanese family with the toilets outside the room. Never a girl came to my place.
Sorry to insult you, but this statement only translates to you don’t take enough shower after jumping from one metro mini to another and you are poor, doesn’t make you more Indonesian than real Indonesians. And masturbation counts as having sex. Sex with the person you love the most. Which kind of fits with your profile.
Aditya, he thinks there is such thing like a non-expat “bule”. which is another oxymoron. And he thinks that he is doing and contributing more to Indonesia than the others.
People with no idealism, those who have forgotten the true values of the their ancestral culture will never understand why some westerners who could have wealthy life in the West accept to live near poverty in Indonesia”¦
Mmmmmh…yeah, difficult to understand unless you are a fugitive or a refugee, or like a guy from the US that refuse to pay tax because he is against the US policy so he choose to be poor. But he still lives in the US.
And believe me I am totally ready to die for that country, do you?
Because you will be dead anyways if caught by the police?
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parvita, who might have been a little upset, said;
he thinks there is such thing like a non-expat “bule”. which is another oxymoron. And he thinks that he is doing and contributing more to Indonesia than the others.
It’s true, Bas’ speech was a little on emotional side, and he has no idea what wati has or hasn’t done for her country, so a bit unfair to go all ballistic on her that way… but as to your comment that you don’t believe there is such a thing as an non-expat bule! That it’s an oxymoron!? Iknow you live in jakarta, and maybe most caucasians there are expats… but please! you are starting to sound like racist australians and southern baptists who think only anglo saxon whites are the true Australians or Americans. There are many people from other countries in indonesia who are here because they love it here. It doesn’t mean they love everything here, but there is definitely a feeling of home here. some ‘bule’ are immigrant, believe it or not. they are here not because they couldn’t make it in their original countries, but because they love it here. Sheesh…
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Ihaknt says:
Parvita, for a person your level of experience, education, knowledge, I did expect wisdom. Yes there are non-expat bules. Expat is when they live in a country temporarily. It cant be that ALL bules in Indonesia are all expats. What about the ones who are married to Indonesians? Male or Female? To actually live there with their partners. Or live in Indo because they love it? Besides not ALL expat are bules, there are Indians, Asians, etc. I live in Sydney, that doesnt make me an expat because I moved here permanently. I think you are being unfair to generalise all bules/expats. Try hang out with non-expat bules. Or probably you cant meet them as you already limit yourself with that perception.
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Janma, please look up what expatriate means. I might be wrong, but the last time I looked it up, it means somebody that gives up their residency in their home country, either for work, exile, temporary or permanent. Based on this, I don’t think it is a racist comment. I’m sure you know what oxymoron means (oh, where is concerned english teacher???). For example, ‘comfortable thongs’ (because I don’t think there is any), or ‘halal pork’ (for moslems). It’s got nothing to do with the word moron. So non-expat bule’ is probably very very few, if not inexistant.
Even if they feel Indonesia is home, lived here for years, love the place, do tremendous things to the country, based on the definition, they are still expats. Bas’ understanding, or probably most of the people that read this thread, on the word “expat” is misleading.
Things get complicated when expats have children and they live in that country for the rest of their lives, never lived outside of that country, even their parents country. Are they expats? Maybe in this case, they are not. What do you call and Indonesian who has a greencard in USA? They are still expats in the US based on the definition. Maybe somebody more competent has better understanding of the word.
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Ihaknt, for my level of experience, education and knowledge (whatever that is), of course I have done my homework and looked it up in the dictionary 🙂
First, I thought similar like you, that if a foreigner decides to be an Indonesian because they married one, and have lived here so long, and have kids and ‘cry when they here Indonesia Raya’, they are not an expat. But guess what, I was surprised myself with my little research. I was also wondering about people like you that gave up residency in Indonesia and moved to Sydney. Are you an expat? Well, guess what, you are, based on this below:
Here is from Cambridge Online Dictionary:
expatriate noun [C] (INFORMAL expat)
someone who does not live in their own country:Here is from Webster:
Expatriate
Noun
1. Voluntarily absent from home or country.Verb
1. Expel from a country.
2. Move away from one’s native country and adopt a new residence abroadDoesn’t say if it is temporary or permanent residency as well.
Therefore, non-bule expat does not exist, except, probably, like what I posted for Janma above. Because bule’ aren’t from Indonesia. And honestly, I haven’t met a bule’ that doesn’t fit the definition above, I haven’t met a bule’ with and Indonesian passport (which still doesn’t make them not an expat). See my argument? But I’ve met non-bule’ expats, a lot of them.
If somebody has another dictionary that says otherwise, it would be good to post here so everybody has the same understanding when they use the word expat because we definetely love any topics that touches expats.
Something new you learn everyday 🙂 So who am I supposed to hang out more again?
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Some western people who learn Indonesian have the feeling that the language is meant primarily for oral expression and that the syntax is more a function of the interlocutor than of the clearness of the meaning itself. They say they feel quite at ease with normal day-to-day interaction but are lost when reading newspapers or taking part in conversations about abstract subjects.
Like Janma, some don’t like the sound of the officially spoken bahasa, because too pompous and syncopated they say, like snapping. They prefer the more melodious, expressive and sometimes funny sound of Javanese or Balinese. Learning to master these bahasa daerah however is a tough job, considering the lack of didactic material.