Bahai
Nov 1st, 2007, in News, by PatungMuslims converting to Bahai.
Thirty-one Muslims in the Donggala area of Central Sulawesi have become apostates and converted to the Bahá’à religion, it is said, inviting the anger of their neighbours who are sticking firm to Islam, and the displeasure of the local bureaucracy.
The head of the Religious Affairs Office in Palolo sub-district said that the Bahai faith, led by one Mulahi, a former marriage counsellor, entered Banpers village in the 1990s, and Mulahi had persuaded 31 local people to convert.
But some Muslims in the village are not taking it lying down:
The homes of the Bahai followers in Banpers are often pelted with stones.
Nor is the local government, which held a meeting between concerned Muslims and the Bahaists in September, 2007, wherein the Bahai adherents were warned to have a think about which religion they wanted to belong to, either Islam, like before, or another religion which was recognised by the government, because Bahai is not. Another meeting will be held soon, to find out whether the Bahaists have had enough thinking time. antara
The Department of Religion (Depag) has also sent down an investigative team, says Muhammad Ramli in Palu, and they will have to decide whether Bahai is a sect within Islam. If so, then the converts, or their leaders, can likely be prosecuted for blasphemy. Depag also wants to find out how Bahai has been spread in the area, because if it is being preached at people who already hold a religion, then that may also constitute a crime, he said. antara
November 8th. Two out of the seven households that converted to Bahai are said to have returned to Islam, after the two heads of the households, Mulahi (70) and Muslimin (40), met with local leaders. Four others refused to change back to Islam, while the seventh did not turn up. antara
395 Comments on “Bahai”
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Odinius says:
People who believe in ________ are so ___________, whereas people who believe in ________ are all ________.
Don’t you agree?
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Frank Johnson says:
Bahais like Layli Miller-Muro give all Bahais a bad name when she takes away American men’s rights to even be able to say hi to a foreign woman via HER Bahai “law” IMBRA. Are all Bahais like her?
She gets millions of American tax dollars a year for her “non-profit” (Ha Ha) Tahirih Justice Center but spends most of it on herself including her million dollar house. Are all Bahais like her?
She lies and fabricates “facts and stats” out of her fat ass in order to get free money. Are all Bahais like her?
Like her Daddy, Bahai elite Larry Miller, Bahai elite Layli Miller-Muro thinks that (Heaven forbid) if the Bahai Now World Order were to happen, then all non-Bahai elite should serve her and Daddy and they should have power, influence and live a life of luxury made possible by the hard work of non-Bahais. Are all Bahais like her?
Many people see Layli Miller-Muro for the fraud that she is and therefore assume that ALL Bahais are like her. Are all Bahais like her?
Is such a corrupt person like Layli Miller-Muro like all Bahais? Are all Bahais like her? Why then does she continue to try to brainwash people, beginning with small children who don’t know better? Are all Bahais like her?
If all Bahais are NOT like her, why does the Bahai Faith not get rid of her as being such a poor example of a Bahai, not to mention she thinks she deserves to be Bahai “royalty”?
If she is such a splendid example of the Bahai Faith, people will catch on and the Bahai Faith will disappear like the thousands of other “religions” in the past. The only thing she contributes to the Bahai Faith is her hatred. Are all Bahais like her?
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Susan says:
Here we go again.
What Frank is objecting to is the work of the Tahirih Justice Center in protecting the rights of women, mostly Asian and African immigrants. Specifically he objects to a bill they helped to pass in Virginia which requires men seeking mail order brides from foreign countries to inform their perspective mates of any criminal background they might have.
I think it is a good law.
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Mr. Johnson obviously has a bizarre obsession.
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Here we go again.
Susan ALWAYS leaves out the inconvenient fact that IMBRA requires this information to be given out BEFORE communication can begin.
Perhaps we should require that ALL Bahais, including Susan of course, give out ALL their personal information, including everywhere she has lived since the age of 18 and her extensive criminal background information BEFORE she can make a post here or to reply to me and get MY written permission BEFORE she can reply to a post of mine. This law should especially be applied to Bahais.
Well, puff puff huff huff, that would be “DISCRIMINATION” wouldn’t it? But what’s good for the goose (innocent law abiding men) should be good for the gander ( Bahais) right?
Perhaps when wealthy Bahais try to get to America for their green cards and welfare (paid for by the US taxpayers – like where Susan gets her money), they should have to be stripsearched and fingerprinted also. Hey, if it is good enough for American men, it should be good enough for Bahais who seek a green card right?
What a scum faux “religion” CULT Bahaism is. Glad more Americans are becoming aware of this sham thanks to Layli Miller-Muro.
I guess IMBRA is typical of the Un-Constitutional, Un-American Iranian Bahai facist laws we can expect if their “New World Order” ever came to be. Thank GOD (the REAL one, not that midget Buliahualiuh) this will NEVER happen.
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Susan ALWAYS leaves out the inconvenient fact that IMBRA requires this information to be given out BEFORE communication can begin
Only if such communication is done through a marriage broker.
Perhaps we should require that ALL Bahais, including Susan of course, give out ALL their personal information, including everywhere she has lived since the age of 18 and her extensive criminal background information BEFORE she can make a post here or to reply to me and get MY written permission BEFORE she can reply to a post of mine.
If the law said anything like what you represent it as saying I would *already* have to do that.
Perhaps when wealthy Bahais try to get to America for their green cards and welfare
Wealthy Baha’is on welfare? You don’t even realize when you are contradicting yourself, do you?
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You mean “Marriage Brokers” like twodoves.com or match.com? They are no different than Cherry Blossoms, except match.com has more foreign women.
Layli Miller-Muro is wealthy also. Of course that is because of all the money she embezzles from her taxpayer funded Tahirih Justice Center. She’ll take as much taxpayer welfare as she can get.
Bahais are a weird cult. You build a $250,000,000 (a quarter of a billion dollars probably mostly U.S. taxdollars) for your cult temple in the middle East while people around it are living in poverty. So much for a “caring religion that benefits mankind.” Bahais only think of themselves and the Bahai elite (of which Susan is not part of) only think of themselves not the other (i.e. peon) Bahais.
You arrogant Bahai fundamentalists really think you are going to control the World? Hey weren’t you supposed to do it by the year 2000? You are no closer now than you were in 2000, thank God!
By the way Susan, has your “mail order groom” husband left you yet for a real woman and also hows your double chin doing?
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You mean “Marriage Brokers” like twodoves.com or match.com? They are no different than Cherry Blossoms, except match.com has more foreign women.
Sounds like you are trying to disprove your own case. It is not an issue of having to reveal your criminal record before you say ‘hi’ to a woman on the internet. TUnlike marriage brokers twodoves or match.com does not charge men exorbitant funds to meet women in person and help arrange marriage visas.
You build a $250,000,000 (a quarter of a billion dollars probably mostly U.S. taxdollars)
Do you always make things up as you go along? The Baha’i religion does not accept donations from anyone who is not a member.
And incidentally, we do not have any temple in the Middle East. I suppose you are confusing it with one of the buildings at the World Centre, but none of them are temples.
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Susan for such an “expert”, you are sure a fat Bahai peon. I don’t think you will ever make it into the “elite” category. However you will still be allowed to clean the toilets of your superiors I’m sure.
The Bahai Faith will take money from ANYONE and EVERYONE from wherever they can get it. Layli Miller-Muro and her fraudulent Tahirih Justice Center begs for and rakes in millions of dollars a year (mainly taxpayer money) from non-Bahais of which plenty is funneled to the Bahai Faith (at least 13 per cent, the usual tithe.)
Cherry Blossoms does not “charge men exorbitant funds to meet women in person and help arrange marriage visas.” There are plenty of Bahai Marriage Brokers and Bahai Mail Order Bride companies that do that. Besides so what if anybody charges fees to meet people in person (like travel agencies) or arranges visas (like lawyers)? Is that against the law or something? I mean if Bahais can do it, shouldn’t other people? Talk about twisting the facts like Bahais usually do.
Yeah, you Bahais don’t have “temples” anywhere. I guess that monstrosity in the Middle East and IL are just mirages, especially when I see brainwashed people praying there cult TEMPLE style.
I’m not sure who you think you’re fooling Susan, but it sure as Hell ain’t me!
Posts like yours and from other deranged Bahais only prove what a lying cult this is and why you should expand more than the few hundred followers you have.
How worthless you and your Bahai CULT are.
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Frank, do you really think you are going to persuade anyone of how innocuous international marriage brokers by demonstrating here how abusive towards women their defenders are? Men who are verbally abusive are likely to be violent as well. Do you think any men watching this exchange would want you anywhere near their daughters?
The Tahirih Justice Center may be inspired by Baha’i ideals and certainly Layli, its founder is a Baha’i, but it is not a Baha’i organization. As such it can solicit funds like any other non-profit organization and accept grants from the government. Those organizations which are organs of the Baha’i Administraion itself do not do so.
Cherry Blossoms does not “charge men exorbitant funds to meet women in person and help arrange marriage visas.
Really? How much do they charge if you go over to meet a woman in person?
There are plenty of Bahai Marriage Brokers and Bahai Mail Order Bride companies that do that.
Uh, no. We don’t have anyone who does that sort of thing. Twodoves.net is a free service which allows Baha’is to meet each other online. Any further contact is entirely up to the couple involved.
Yeah, you Bahais don’t have “temples” anywhere.
Did I say we didn’t have a temple anywhere? I believe I said we didn’t have a temple in the Middle East. It is easy to make someone look like a liar if you misrepresent what they originally said. Fortunately on a forum like this people can go back and check for themselves to see who is lying. Here is the wiki article on the various Baha’i Temples.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahá'í_House_of_Worship
Note: None of the current ones are in the Middle East.
I guess that monstrosity in the Middle East and IL are just mirages
Last I checked Illinois was in the Midwest, not the Middle East.
I’m guessing you are confusing the Shrine of the Bab with a Baha’i Temple. It was built over fifty years ago at the cost of some $750,000 not $250,000,000! See for yourself:
http://news.bahai.org/story/252
Posts like yours and from other deranged Bahais only prove what a lying cult this is
I’m sure people can see for themselves whose lying. You’ve also given them a chance to see what kind of abusive men resort to international marriage brokers.
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Susan, do you really think you are going to convince any Christans to burn their Bibles or Muslims to burn their Korans and convert to the Bahai Faith Cult from what they read on your postings? Like Layli Miller-Muro, you turn people off to the Bahai Faith although not nearly to the degree that Layli Miller-Muro does. She really does your CULT more bad than good. Why don’t you do yourselves a favor and get rid of her? Same for you.
When people see her lying and making up “facts and stats” out of her fat ass, they say to themselves to Hell with this Middle Eastern Radical Religious Cult. What? They get my tax dollars and want to take away my civil rights also? Send them all back to Tehran.
Then if they see your posts (unlikely) they are more apt to say to heck with that! Throw them all in prison where they belong.
Susan your ego is amazing but not surprising. I guess it just must be part of the Bahai Faith ego where they “know what’s best” for us mere mortals. What a screwed up cult. I thought Scientology was bad, but they look like Jesus and his disciples compared to Bahais.
Susan thinks I am “verbally abusive” yet she can’t get enough of my posts, while I find her extremely “visually abusive” and therefore avoid her fat photo at all costs unless I want to remind myself how lucky I am to be married to a REAL woman (not that I ever have to.)
Layli panders and begs for tax dollars, as well as from any other scoure she can tap. The Tahirih Justice Center is VERY much a Bahai Faith FOR-profit organization. You are only kidding yourself when you say otherwise (although I realize your mission as a faithful obedient Bahai servant here is to monitor this site like a hawk to dispel critical posts and hype up the phony Bahai Faith. Like most Bahais, you have an air of arrogance around you and your posts that people pick up on very easily. You are doing more harm than good, which is why I encourage you to continue posting. Every hateful word you post brings the Bahai Faith Fraud closer to its inevitable end.
Layli is a PROVEN liar as well as her Father Larry Miller/Lawrence M Miller. She thinks she is Tahirih but she really is more like Judas the way she sets such a poor example as a Bahai. If you follow what she does, you would think ALL Bahais are premeditated liars, serial fabricators and thieves, She can’t contain her ego or greed let along her lying mouth. With the IRS and government investigating her and the Tahirih Justice Center, she is headed for a well deserved hard fall which will take a lot of other people and possibly a phony fraudulent “faith” down with her.
When that happens a lot of Bahais are going to run for the hills with their Bibles thinking “Maybe Bulaiuhluiah was full of crap after all and this Jesus guy seems to make a lot of sense.”
Now to answer a couple of Susan’s phony “questions” (meaning she knows she is shoveling it when she already knows the truthful answers – but that is her mission here for the CULT. To LIE!)
Susan said:
“Really? How much do they Cherry Blossoms) charge if you go over to meet a woman in person?”
Gee Susan, they don’t send men over. The men who want to meet the ladies they have been corresponding with usually book a flight with a TRAVEL AGENCY or directly with the airlines – but then again you already knew that as that is how you got your Bahai Indian gold digger “mail order groom” to America.
Now to prove to the world what a lying fat pig Susan and other Bahais are, check out her response when I said that the twodoves.net Bahai International Marriage Broker which features Bahai Mail Order Brides is just like Cherry Blossoms (although Cherry Blossoms is an International Friendship Service.) Exact SAME business model.
Susan said “We don’t have anyone who does that sort of thing. Twodoves.net is a FREE service which allows Baha’is to meet each other online. Any further contact is entirely up to the couple involved.”
Now please take a look at twodoves.net PRICE structure FEES below for people to contact each other and shove it up your fat rear Susan. Lost your credibility? I would say so. Bahais are hungry for money. They won’t introduce each for free, dummy.
http://twodoves.net/index.php?page=welcome
It’s free to join and post your profile and search for other profiles. When you want to initiate CONTACT with a member you need to PURCHASE a subscription.
Subscription FEES
A subscription gives you the ability to INITIATE CONTACT with other members on the site. The FEES are as follows:
* 1 month: $20.00
* 3 months: $30.00
* 12 months: $60.00GASP! You mean Susan was full of it as usual? YES! You mean, she LIED? YES!
Then when Susan claims there is no Bahai building in Israel:
“Last I checked Illinois was in the Midwest, not the Middle East. I’m guessing you are confusing the Shrine of the Bab with a Baha’i Temple. It was built over fifty years ago at the cost of some $750,000 not $250,000,000!”
So that quarter of a billion dollar temple, House of Justice, etc. etc. in Haifa, Israel on Mt. Carmel is just a figment of my imagination Susan? Like a fat pig in mud it is fun to watch you sink deeper into your own Bahai lies. This is so much fun!
Here is photographic proof of what I say. Notice how they refer to it as a TEMPLE Susan! Got your fat lyin’ ass again didn’t I?
http://www.karpel.org/Ron/HTMLTrips/20040603_01_BahaiTemple.html
Then, thinking all non-Bahai people are stupid, she says this:
“I’m sure people can see for themselves whose lying. You’ve also given them a chance to see what kind of abusive men resort to international marriage brokers.”
Yes Susan, you are for once right! I’m sure people can see for themselves who is lying (i.e. you and other Bahais.) You’ve also given them a chance to see what kind of brainwashed lying ABUSIVE Bahai women resort to Bahai International Marriage Brokers and Mail Order Bride and Groom Services where you found your green card seeking hubby. I assume he left you by now since he must have gotten his green card, right? Right!
However as a Christian who knows who the TRUE Son of God is (not that lying deranged midget Bulaiuahluah and the people stupid enough to fall for his con job.) Get a Bible Susan. You may learn something and save your soul in the process NOT fatten your purse with stolen money. Also, each time you lie it makes your double chin fatter! It must be dragging on the floor by now along with your fat ass!
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Susan, do you really think you are going to convince any Christans to burn their Bibles or Muslims to burn their Korans and convert to the Bahai Faith Cult from what they read on your postings?
Such a fine demonstration of your ignorance regarding the most basic teachings of the Baha’i Faith. Baha’is are prohibited from burning *any* books, let alone the Bible or the Qur’an.
“The unbelievers and the faithless have set their minds on four things: first, the shedding of blood; second, the burning of books; third, the shunning of the followers of other religions; fourth, the extermination of other communities and groups. Now however, through the strengthening grace and potency of the Word of God these four barriers have been demolished, these clear injunctions have been obliterated from the Tablet and brutal dispositions have been transmuted into spiritual attributes. Exalted is His 92 purpose; glorified is His power; magnified is His dominion!”
(Baha’u’llah, Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 91)
Gee Susan, they don’t send men over. The men who want to meet the ladies they have been corresponding with usually book a flight with a TRAVEL AGENCY or directly with the airlines
I didn’t say they bought their airline tickets, I’m talking about the kinds of “services” mentioned on this website: http://www.international-marriage-broker.com/services.shtml
[I can’t seem to get access to that sort of information from Cherry Blossoms without signing up.]
Now please take a look at twodoves.net PRICE structure FEES below for people to contact each other
Okay, I’d admit I’ve never explored that website enough to notice that page. Looks like their ‘services’ are limited to getting email addresses and that their fees are about a tenth of the broker site I mentioned above. Also, twodoves.net is not really and international broker. Although people can post there from all over the world, most of the contacts are between people living in the United States.
shove it up your fat rear Susan.
Thank you once more for your shinning example of the kind of abusive men that the International Brokers Marriage Act was designed to protect women against.
Then when Susan claims there is no Bahai building in Israel:
No, once again you completely distorted and misrepresented what I said. I said there were no Baha’i Temples in the Middle East. I said nothing about there being no Baha’i buildings in the Middle East. You do understand the difference between a building and a temple?
Like a fat pig in mud it is fun to watch you sink deeper into your own Bahai lies. This is so much fun!
Anyone who finds being abusive ‘fun’ should not be allowed anywhere near someone’s daughter.
Here is photographic proof of what I say. Notice how they refer to it as a TEMPLE Susan!
http://www.karpel.org/Ron/HTMLTrips/20040603_01_BahaiTemple.html
I’m afraid they don’t know what they are talking about. The building pictured there is the shrine where the Bab is buried, not a temple. And as I indicated earlier, Baha’is paid $750,000 more than fifty years ago to build that shrine, not a quarter of a billion dollars.
So that quarter of a billion dollar temple, House of Justice, etc. etc. in Haifa, Israel on Mt. Carmel is just a figment of my imagination Susan?
So now we are talking etc., etc. instead of a temple being built at that cost. I suspect if you put all the Baha’i properties in the Akka/Haifa area together they might come to something close to that amount.
Bahai women resort to Bahai International Marriage Brokers and Mail Order Bride and Groom Services where you found your green card seeking hubby.
I married a man while I was living in India, and I didn’t need to use a broker.
However as a Christian who knows who the TRUE Son of God is (not that lying deranged midget Bulaiuahluah and the people stupid enough to fall for his con job.) Get a Bible Susan.
I have about six or seven of them. What would Jesus think about the way you are behaving here?
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Susan says that Bahais don’t burn Bibles, yet after they become Bahai Cult members they are not allowed to even think of another religion or open a Bible. Typical of Bahai fascist brainwashing which is why Susan is so screwed up.
“The way is closed, and seeking is forbidden.”(Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 146)
Sieg Heil Herr Baha!
Of course, being ignorant, Susan burned her copy of The Bahai Writings Say……., thinking she knows it all already. Yet she knows NOTHING, especially about American men, foreign women and Penpal Services. Her Hubby probably ran off with a hot slim blond after he got his green card for marrying her. Hot slim blondes are the dream of ALL Indian guys.
The Susan claims (as “fact” of course) that on the twodoves.net Bahai International Marriage Broker Mail Order Bride site “the contacts are between people living in the United States.”
Yet their site (http://twodoves.net/” says: “Members from more than 100 countries! You can search for people in your country or AROUND THE WORLD! Let your vision be WORLD embracing and see who might be out there for you.”
Hey fools, better change your wording because Susan is an “expert” (not at losing weight however) and she knows more about your business than you do! Of course as an expert, she “knows” all about American based International Friendship Services and just about everything else too! (except how to keep a husband it seems.)
Of course, just a quick glance at their member show on the first 2 pages for Bahai Mail Order Brides out of 42 Mail Order Brides featured only 13 of them are from the USA (or as Susan implies that the overwhelming majority are in the USA.)
For men, I only had to look at the first page of Bahai male Green card seekers where out of 21 men only 3 (!) were in the USA (or as Susan implies almost all are Americans.
Also for the women in the USA, I notice that most of them are divorced and originally from Iran. No surprise there!
Susan is so full of it, it is incredible. However the entire Bahai Cult is a sham, full of people like Susan who will lie, fabricate, distort facts, avoid the truth, make up “facts and stats” to suit their purpose, propagandize, brainwash in order to achieve their fascist New World (dis)ORDER. Layli Miller-Muro and her Father Larry Miller/Lawrence M Miller are prime examples of this. Do you think your Cult is actually going to rule the World with such deception by its followers?
The small inconveniences a couple of Bahais rarely go through in Iran is a drop in the bucket compared to the carnage, premeditated torture, serial abuse and killings that will happen constantly Worldwide if the Bahai Cult New World Order ever came to be. Thank GOD (the real one) this will NEVER happen!
Thank you once more Susan for your shinning example of the kind of abusive lying Bahai that the upcoming Bahai Regulation Act is designed to protect mankind against.
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Susan says that Bahais don’t burn Bibles, yet after they become Bahai Cult members they are not allowed to even think of another religion or open a Bible.
Once again Frank, you don’t know what you are talking about. I’ll test my knowledge of the Bible against yours any day of the week, but it doesn’t make much sense to do that on a Muslim forum. Shall we meet on say, say CARM?
“The way is closed, and seeking is forbidden.”(Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 146)
LOL. That passage has nothing to do with reading the Bible. ‘Abdu’l-Baha is quoting Sufi mystics in regards to knowing God in His Essence (as opposed to through His revelation.) If you had actually bothered to read Some Answered Questions as opposed to simply seeing a passage quoted out of context you would know that this text is full of Bible commentary. Baha’u’llah also quotes the Bible extensively, something which is not popular to do because most Muslims think the Bible has been tampered with. Baha’u’llah has this to say about that notion:
“We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence! How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also? What would be left to that people to cling to from the setting of the day-star of Jesus until the rise of the sun of the Muhammadan Dispensation? What law could be their stay and guide? . . . . Above all, how could the flow of the grace of the All-Bountiful be stayed? How could the ocean of His tender mercies be stilled? We take refuge with God, from that which His creatures have fancied about Him! Exalted is He above their comprehension!
(Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 89)
The Susan claims (as “fact” of course) that on the twodoves.net Bahai International Marriage Broker Mail Order Bride site “the contacts are between people living in the United States.”
I said they were *mostly* within the United States. Would you please learn to read?
Of course, just a quick glance at their member show on the first 2 pages for Bahai Mail Order Brides out of 42 Mail Order Brides featured only 13 of them are from the USA
There are no ‘first 2 pages.’ You have to put in search criteria. When I put in search criteria for roughly my own age category 24 out of 42 are from the USA and another half a dozen are from Canada. For males, about half were from North America. As for the numbers that are of Iranian background, this is a function of culture. Arranged marriages are more acceptable to them than they are to most Americans.
The small inconveniences a couple of Bahais rarely go through in Iran
Small inconveniences? You call being banned from higher education for the last thirty years an ‘inconvenience’? Now they are starting to expel Baha’i children from elementary school as well. Baha’i homes have been burnt, people arrested in the middle of the night. The Baha’i leadership in Iran has been imprisoned for over a year without being allowed to see their lawyers. Trial dates in Revolutionary [Kangaroo] Courts keep being set and then postponed a day or two before the trial.
This video created by the Muslim Network for Baha’i Human Rights amply demonstrates what they are going through:
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Lairedion says:
Susan
I’ll test my knowledge of the Bible against yours any day of the week, but it doesn’t make much sense to do that on a Muslim forum. Shall we meet on say, say CARM?
IM a Muslim forum? That’s a newbie…
Yes a good idea, the both of you move to another blog or forum…. your discussion is boring, especially Frank for being so insecure towards an insignificant group…
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IM a Muslim forum? That’s a newbie…
LOL. Well, the topic of this thread was supposed to be the treatment of Baha’i villagers in Indonesia where Islam is the state religion.
Yes a good idea, the both of you move to another blog or forum…. your discussion is boring, especially Frank for being so insecure towards an insignificant group…
It is certainly off-topic, I agree.
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Susan,
Islam is not “the state religion” in Indonesia. The official belief system of Indonesia is monotheism, but the state recognizes and supports a number of (arguably) monotheistic faiths: Islam, Protestant Christianity, Catholic Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism. All Indonesians are expected to at least nominally associate with one of these religions. Theoretically, these faiths and their adherents are all to be treated equally under the law, though in practical terms this does not always happen. Minorities in local areas often find strong barriers against the free expression of religion. The state also takes a mostly hands-off approach to certain animistic or syncretic faith systems, such as those in Kalimantan (mixing Christianity with animism) and Java (mixing Islam with animism).
The Bahai faith is not recognized by the state, but there are Bahais in Indonesia
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Yes a good idea, the both of you move to another blog or forum…. your discussion is boring, especially Frank for being so insecure towards an insignificant group
So maybe just don’t read it?
Frank does seem unduly obsessed with a fairly minor issue although I tend to agree with him overall, I don’t see why the government should try to interfere in how people communicate with each other cross-border.
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Odinius,
I realize that the Indonesian Constitution states “every person shall be free to choose and to practice the religion of his/her choice” and “guarantees all persons the freedom of worship, each according to his/her own religion or belief” however if Baha’is of Muslim background are being persecuted for changing their religion what possible reason can there be but Islamic fanaticism influencing government policy?
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Patung,
The purpose of the International Marriage Broker Act is to prevent the violence, abuse and sometimes virtual enslavement of foreign women by US citizens. For that reason, before a marriage broker can sell a US citizen contact information on a foreign woman until they have done a criminal background check to insure that the person is not a registered sex offender nor has any history of domestic violence.
There is nothing to prevent two people from communicating with one other on the internet in general.
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Susan just can’t stop the propaganda. BEFORE IMBRA this personal information was ALWAYS (and still is) presented and checked by the US government during the visa process giving the woman ample time to bow out of the marriage if her fiancee had a speeding ticket or giving the man ample time to change his mind if his fiancee has a violent History including numerous drug arrests.
There is NO need to present this information to a complete stranger BEFORE you are allowed to say hi to them online.
IMBRA assumes you are guilty unless you prove yourself innocent. It failed to pass on it’s own when it was presented several times previously because it is so un-Constitutional. Politicians wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole. This is why it had to be SNEAKED into law by attaching it to the renewal of another law conveniently with NO evidence, NO proof, NO representation of foreign women or American men and NO representation of International Friendship Services (the label of “International Marriage Broker” was made up by Bahai Layli Miller-Muro to make these innocent services sound evil.) It was also sneaked in just before politicians were leaving for their Christmas break giving them no time to learn about it or read it. Indeed the majority of politicians are unaware they even signed it into law and still are unaware of it.
The services are NO different than the International Friendships Service offered by Indonesia Matters except that American feminists (Bahai or otherwise) “don’t like” American men happy by marrying nice foreign women who are not feminist. They view the foreign women as competition (jealousy) and a threat to all their feminist “accomplishments.”
It has nothing to do with “protecting foreign women” from vicious drooling muderous “premeditated torturers, serial rapists and pedophiles” (Layli Miller-Muro’s description of ALL American men.) It has EVERYTHING to do with stopping foreign women from marrying American men and “protecting feminists.”
In BAHAI Layli Miller-Muro’s case, she via her Bahai FOR-profit Tahirih Justice Center get a lot of unaccounted for taxpayer dollars (millions and millions) which ends up in Layli’s bank accounts and to the Bahai Faith and for her to fly around the country to give Bahai propaganda speeches.
IMBRA was built upon Layli’s LIES, DISTORTIONS and “FACT FABRICATIONS. She could give a damn about foreign women unless they are Bahai. Being too lazy to actually work for a living (like most feminists) this is a very convenient way for her to embezzle a lot of money for herself and her Bahai Faith World takeover (aka New World Order or Agenda 21.)
IMBRA is a Bahai law. If they ever get their New World Order I can only imagine how Draconian their upcoming laws will be.
Remember in the New World Order, the Bahai Faith Cult will be the ONLY religion allowed along with a World government controlled by Bahais, laws made by Bahais and enforced by a Bahai Police State.
Susan will, of course, deny and downplay all this but that it the reason she is here. She was commanded to. She has proven over and over and over again on this forum that she doesn’t speak the truth. She wants this Bahai World takeover also. She wants you all to be forced to become Bahai Cult members. Don’t think for a second I’m kidding because I’m not.
IMBRA was to stop foreign women from marrying American men and to make easy money for Layli Miller-Muro and the Bahai Faith. Rest assured if their Bahai takeover happens as planned the Indonesia Matters International Friendship Service will be just one of many targets.
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Also, IMBRA calls for a limit of TWO visas PER LIFETIME! So if you are an American man and your foreign fiancee changes her mind and then a couple of years later your new fiancee dies from Cancer before she joins you – TOO BAD! NO MORE FOREIGN WOMEN for you! So much for freedom and the right of choice. Talk about Big Brother government getting involved in people’s personal lives! Perhaps the US government should put a limit of 2 marriages on ALL it’s citizens as well as a limit of two abortions per lifetime for American women.
Also Susan (again) conveniently leaves out the fact that IMBRA also requires a list of ALL places a man has lived since the age of 18, complete information of children from previous marriages, complete details of any divorces, etc. etc. which the International Friendship Service (like Indonesia Matters Friendship Site) has to translate into the lady’s native dialect (forget the fact that the women who want to meet American men all speak and write English – in fact The Philippines is the THIRD LARGEST ENGLISH SPEAKING country in the World but American feminists hate Philippine women because they are (gasp!) traditional and believe in marriage and a family (unlike American feminists.)
The the Friendship Service has to mail the man’s information to a complete stranger (remember the lady doesn’t know the American man is even interested in her from her profile SHE put up in the hopes that American men would be contacting her directly – you know, as if she can actually think and decide for herself instead of American feminists deciding for her!)
So then she has this man’s information (not even a photo allowed so she doesn’t even know what he looks like) which is deliberately designed by Bahai Layli Miller-Muro to try to scare off the woman. “Well he looks like he hasn’t commited any murders YET! He was run through the local and Federal Sex Offender Registries and here is a list of all his arrests (even if he was falsely arrested and the charges were dropped). Of course there may be crimes he did that were overlooked, but hey don’t you think you should change your mind about wanting to meet an American man? Look, they are so bad they have to have police background checks just to be able to say hi to you. Stay in your country and don’t come to the USA unless you marry a Bahai man.
Then after reviewing this propaganda designed to scare her off, the lady (if she is brave enough) will send the Friendship Service her written permission for the man to contact her and ONLY THEN after receiving this written permission can the man finally be able to say “Hi. I’m a single honest American man, Reverend Smith of our local church. Since you already know all about me, could you tell me something about yourself?”
Now apply this to Indonesia Matters Friendship Service and all other services like that (Layli says they are ALL “Marriage Brokers”) and you get the picture.
Wait, not all of these services have to obey this Bahai law. That’s right, twodoves.net and the many other Bahai International Marriage Brokers and their Bahai Mail Order Brides are exempt because they are “religious” (that’s a good one!)
But wait? Aren’t most American men and foreign women religious? Christians, Catholics, Muslims, etc? Yes, but they are Bahais and Bahai Layli Miller-Muro put in this exemption so Bahai women like Susan can pursue another Bahai husband wanting his American green card.
Get ready for more Bahai laws like IMBRA.
Remember that the Bahais believe the image of God as a man is sexist and the PROPER image of God is an Iranian woman. Oh yes, they don’t believe in Heaven or Hell either and after their Bahai New World Order takeover, you better not either if you know whats good for you!
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BEFORE IMBRA this personal information was ALWAYS (and still is) presented and checked by the US government during the visa process giving the woman ample time to bow out of the marriage if her fiancee had a speeding ticket or giving the man ample time to change his mind if his fiancee has a violent History including numerous drug arrests.
No. They checked the background of the person coming into the country, not the person who is already here.
There is NO need to present this information to a complete stranger BEFORE you are allowed to say hi to them online.
Sure there is. By the time visas are applied for a lot of money has already changed hands.
(the label of “International Marriage Broker” was made up by Bahai Layli Miller-Muro to make these innocent services sound evil.)
Really? Did she make up this cheesy website as well?
http://www.international-marriage-broker.com/In BAHAI Layli Miller-Muro’s case, she via her Bahai FOR-profit Tahirih Justice Center get a lot of unaccounted for taxpayer dollars (millions and millions)
I would really be careful about making libelous statements on the internet. Layli is a lawyer after all, comments such as these are actionable. The Tahirih Justice Center must account for every dollar of government aid it receives just like any other non-profit organization.
Remember in the New World Order, the Bahai Faith Cult will be the ONLY religion allowed
Nonsense. This is the Baha’i attitude towards other religions:
“Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.” Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished.”
(Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 94)
If you make up lies about things like this which can readily be proven false, no one is going to believe what you say about technical legal matters such as the IMBRA either.
Susan will, of course, deny and downplay all this but that it the reason she is here. She was commanded to.
LOL. I’m here because I got a google alert on this thread.
Also, IMBRA calls for a limit of TWO visas PER LIFETIME! So if you are an American man and your foreign fiancee changes her mind and then a couple of years later your new fiancee dies from Cancer before she joins you – TOO BAD! NO MORE FOREIGN WOMEN for you! So much for freedom and the right of choice. Talk about Big Brother government getting involved in people’s personal lives! Perhaps the US government should put a limit of 2 marriages on ALL it’s citizens as well as a limit of two abortions per lifetime for American women.
Sorry, Frank but obtaining visas for foreign women is not a right. This sort of law limits the amount of green card marriages and enslavement which might occur under the rubric of marriage.
There is no exemption for Baha’is mentioned in the IMBRA laws. Our name is not even mentioned there.
But I think all your anti-feminist rhetoric may well indicate what men resorting to International Marriage Brokers are looking for, women they can dominate. It is no surprise then that the amount of abuse resulting from these marriages is so high.
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Hi Susan,
I realize that the Indonesian Constitution states “every person shall be free to choose and to practice the religion of his/her choice” and “guarantees all persons the freedom of worship, each according to his/her own religion or belief” however if Baha’is of Muslim background are being persecuted for changing their religion what possible reason can there be but Islamic fanaticism influencing government policy?
There’s a major gulf separating government policy and state constitution. You said that Islam was “the state religion” of Indonesia, which is patently false. The US has no state religion either, but that doesn’t stop US government policy from, at times, being unduly influenced by the Christian Right. These are two phenomena, and are quite different.
Now, unlike the US, Indonesia’s legal statutes guaranteeing the freedom of religion are confined to the private sphere. In order to exist as a public organization, though, religious groups have to conform to Departmen Agama’s statutes governing the organization of religion in Indonesia. Unless you are one of the six recognized faiths, your ability to build houses of worship or evangelize are highly circumscribed. If the office of one of the six recognized religions views a given organization as heretical, then it’s going to get in some trouble, like the Ahmadiya. There are also severe anti-blasphemy laws, which Catholics as well as Muslims have used. Of course, they apply only to the recognized religions. On a more mundane but quite invidious level, members of unrecognized religious groups often find it difficult to get married, register births, deaths, etc.
Plenty of abuses happen, and the Indonesian government can be quite spineless when it comes to these things, but the real picture is far, far more ambiguous than how you see it.
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Thank you yet again Susan for proving all my points and for showing the World how easily you can lie, distort the truth and downplay the facts. If Susan were alive during WWII she would be saying “Mr. Hitler is a really nice guy. He loves you Jews so don’t you want to take a shower to refresh yourselves?” As she turns the gas on…..
Google “Bahai New World Order religion” to verify that indeed the Bahais plan on being the ONLY allowed religion if they ever get their fascist “New World Order.” Here is but one of MANY sites that confirm this.
Don’t believe a word Susan says. She is a liar on a mission and failing badly.
http://merahza.wordpress.com/2009/04/10/bahai-the-new-world-religion-of-the-nwo/
The Bahá’í Faith is as much a political force in the New World Order as it is a spiritual one. The term “new world order”, as you will soon see, was coined by Bahá’u’lláh himself in the late 1860s
The organization, and its holy scriptures, advocates the following:
• A World Super-State (controlled by Bahais)
• A World Legislator (controlled by Bahais)
• A World Parliament (controlled by Bahais)
• A World Police Force (controlled by Bahais)
• A Supreme Tribunal (controlled by Bahais)
• Election of leaders through merit alone without nominations or the democratic process (the Administrative Order) (controlled by Bahais)
• A single Universal Language (Farsi)
• A permanent single currency
• An international uniform tax (payable to Bahai Faith)
• The implementation of Agenda 21 and the Earth Charter
• The unity of all the world’s religions under the umbrella of the BAHAI FAITH (Bahaism controlled by Bahais)Now let me repeat that last one again in case you didn’t grasp it:
The unity of all the world’s religions under the umbrella of the BAHAI FAITH (Bahaism controlled by Bahais)
That is what it is all about folks and why the Bahais must NEVER be allowed this fascist “New World Order.”
The ONLY ones to benefit from this NOW will be the Bahai elite who will be frolicking in meadows with doves flying above while the rest of mankind toils endlessly to serve them. Since Susan is NOT a Bahai elite, she will join other non-Bahai elite in serving her masters which will include Layli Miller-Muro. However Susan will enjoy serving Layli as she already does, including cleaning Layli’s toilets.
Susan is a liar as she has proven over and over and over here.
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Thank you yet again Susan for proving all my points and for showing the World how easily you can lie, distort the truth and downplay the facts. If Susan were alive during WWII she would be saying “Mr. Hitler is a really nice guy. He loves you Jews so don’t you want to take a shower to refresh yourselves?” As she turns the gas on…..
Google “Bahai New World Order religion” to verify that indeed the Bahais plan on being the ONLY allowed religion if they ever get their fascist “New World Order.”
Funny you would present me as a Hitler supporter and then give people directions to a blog which is as anti-semitic as it is anti-Baha’i. Here is what it says:
Generally, the ‘initiators‘ behind the NWO are primarily and irrefutably, prominent Jews comprising of Jewish politicians, corporate figures, and the infamous Wall Street Banksters.
If you believe this garbage *you* would have been right up there with the Hitler supporters, not me!
Yes, Baha’is believe in the establishment of a world government, but that government will likely be established long before the majority of people in the world are Baha’is and until we are in the majority we obviously won’t control it. If we ever did come to be in control it would be through the democratic process and nothing else. Yes, our elections are somewhat different from what is found elsewhere in that we do not have nominations and we don’t campaign. People are elected on the basis of a plurality of votes. Yes, we believe in the establishment of universal secondary language, but that is for the nations of the world to decide and not the Baha’is. It almost certainly won’t be Persian. English or Arabic are more likely choices. The Baha’i Teachings say nothing about a uniform tax system, Agenda 21 or the Earth Charter, but none of them sound like such a bad idea to me.
Now let me repeat that last one again in case you didn’t grasp it:
The unity of all the world’s religions under the umbrella of the BAHAI FAITH (Bahaism controlled by Bahais)
You can repeat it as much as you like, but it is not what we are saying.
Now if you are done with your nutty conspiracy theories, can we get back to the topic of this thread?
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Downplay, downplay, downplay, lie, make up facts, change the topic, distort the truth, change the subject because Bahai sentinel Susan is here on watch to see that a real discussion about the Bahai Cult Agenda takeover of Indonesia does not take place. Brainwashed Bahais like Susan spend all their time trolling the internet on the lookout for unkind words about the Bahai Cult in order to prepare people for the Bahai Cult New World Order takeover with as little bloodshed as possible. After all, a dead slave is of no use. A dead slave cannot serve Bahai masters.
There is so much stuff out there on the internet about the fraudulent Bahai Cult and its plans for World domination and control via their New World Order despite Susan shrugging it off as “conspiracy theories.”
Susan is right. All Bahais are right. Everyone else is wrong. Typical arrogant Bahai attitude. DON”T believe anything a Bahai says! They have an agenda and are out to brainwash you! Just read what Susan posts as proof.
Susan said “Yes, Baha’is believe in the establishment of a world government” and then tries to downplay it after that. Kid yourself not friends, the Bahais ABSOLUTELY believe in and are working hard for “the establishment of a world government” CONTROLLED BY AND OPERATED BY THE BAHAIS WITH BAHAISM AS THE ONLY WORLD RELIGION!
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Baha%27i_Faith
“the spiritual as well as social and political unity of mankind, when the Baha’i World Commonwealth (New World Order), operating in strict accordance with the laws and ordinances of the Most Holy Book of the Baha’i Revelation, will have been established through the efforts of the Baha’is.”
“Bahá’ís will provide the spiritual, moral and ethical underpinnings for the successful translation of AGENDA 21 into practical action in all parts of the world and at all levels of human society.”
“The Haifan Baha’i organization also explicitly refers to the these principles as elements of an approaching “New World Order”, which is understood as a system of beliefs and teachings based upon the life and writings of their prophet founder, Bahá’u’lláh, and comprises a set of political, spiritual and social principles which Baha’is believe define the correct structure for the unification of mankind.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_world_order_%28Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD%29
Principles outlined in the New World Order include universal peace; the UNITY OF RELIGION; the setting up a world government which could enact laws required to satisfy the needs of all people; an elected world parliament; a binding world tribunal; a
world police force;; the setting up of an auxiliary universal language.Meet the NWO Religion – The Baha’i Faith information about the new world order religion, allegedly created to eventually replace ISLAM, Christian, and Jew alike.
“Change the subject quick!” screams Susan hysterically, “Nothing to see here! Don’t read Frank’s posts if you know what’s good for you! You Indonesians will thank me after you have given up your foolish Islamic religion and embraced the Bahai Cult and will obey our Bahai New World Order – or else!”
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Frank,
This is not a Baha’i website, but most of what is there is not inaccurate, just the way you presented it.
I never suggested that Baha’is weren’t working to establish a new world order. This vision is as old as the Abrahamic religions themselves. Even as a Christian I was taught to pray “Thy kingdom come Thy will be done, on *earth* as it is in heaven.” What is false is the notion that we would force anyone to join our religion or that there will be any element of compulsion in this process. Baha’u’llah has prohibited jihad so there is no way we can compel our will on others.
I notice however, that Frank just pulled a fast one. He quotes the following:
“Bahá’ís will provide the spiritual, moral and ethical underpinnings for the successful translation of AGENDA 21 into practical action in all parts of the world and at all levels of human society.”
This is what the website actually said:
“Primary among the spiritual principles which must guide the systematic implementation of Agenda 21 is the oneness of humanity. It is this cardinal principle that Bahá’ís believe will provide the spiritual, moral and ethical underpinnings for the successful translation of Agenda 21 into practical action in all parts of the world and at all levels of human society.”
Care to explain that deliberate misrepresentation of the text, Frank? You are talking to Muslims here and in Islam changing a text is a very serious sin.
This statement was made by a Baha’i representative of the Non-governmental agency of the United Nations. He is not saying that *Baha’is* will provide the underpinnings of Agenda 21, he is saying that spiritual principles such as the oneness of humanity must provide the moral underpinning for any successful program of environmental sustainability (which is what Agenda 21 is about.)
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So, do either of you have anything to say about Indonesia? Or the situation concerning Bahais in Indonesia?
Comment on “Bahai”.
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How true, but how difficult for people to accept this simple fact!
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