Sharia Application
Aug 22nd, 2007, in News, by PatungSharia can be applied without making Indonesia an Islamic state.
Fuad Amsyari of the Crescent Star Party, Partai Bulan Bintang (PBB), said in Jakarta on 21st August that the basic form of the state, Pancasila, did not need to be changed in order that sharia be applied. Instead, every law that was made could incorporate Islamic law.
It was a mistake to think that sharia application depended on an Islamic state, he said, and there was nothing in Pancasila that prevented sharia law from being applied in Indonesia. Every government policy and law could employ sharia, he said, and no discrimination against non-Muslims would occur.
There will be no discrimination because in Islam there can be no discrimination.
Another PBB leader, Sahar L. Hassan, agreed that sharia could be adopted without altering the constitution, and hoped that it could be applied at the level of the state, however, someone convicted of theft in an area for which the state was responsible would not suffer hand amputation, but in ordinary theft cases hand amputation would occur.
Meanwhile, in the interests of the further application of sharia law, the PBB is inviting clerics from throughout the country and well-known figures such as Muhammadiyah leader Din Syamsuddin, NU leader Hasyim Muzadi, Majelis Ulama Indonesia leader Ma’ruf Amin, Siddiq Amin of Persatuan Islam (Persis), and representatives of Dewan Dakwah, Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia, Dewan Masjid Indonesia, Ikatan Wanita Muslimat Indonesia, and the Badan Komunikasi Pemuda Remaja Masjid Indonesia (BKPRMI), to attend a meeting in Bogor, 24-26th August.
During this meeting it is hoped that ways to apply sharia in all aspects of life can be discussed, as well as the means of bringing this about, and specific proposals that can be put to the government and parliament. republika
246 Comments on “Sharia Application”
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Sylvester says:
Thanks Julita,
To put it simple, quran is anti-Bible, Mohamed is anti Christ. It is mentioned in the book of Revelation that there will be many fake prophets after Jesus. They and their follower will be crushed into hell.
While moslem think it is OK to kill infidels (non-moslem), Jesus says no to murdering.
So, faith is the most. -
Cukurungan says:
Pieter: No if you want to be correct these deals were between Arab & Israelis, hence Muslims sates and the Jewish State. Are these wars not to liberate the so called occupied Muslim land and holy places? Aren’t we speaking of the very same land the Crusader came etc.?
And if you are guys are not Arabs so why not keeping your own culture and practicing you own bread of Islam. No need to adopt Arab culture along with the religion they imposed on you in the past. Unlike the Spanish in the Philippine, my (Dutch) ancestors were not into converting the populations in the colonies. I wonder if that would not have been a good dead, sadly enough they did not!Pieter: No if you want to be correct these deals were between Arab & Israelis, hence Muslims sates and the Jewish State. Are these wars not to liberate the so called occupied Muslim land and holy places? Aren’t we speaking of the very same land the Crusader came etc.?
And if you are guys are not Arabs so why not keeping your own culture and practicing you own bread of Islam. No need to adopt Arab culture along with the religion they imposed on you in the past. Unlike the Spanish in the Philippine, my (Dutch) ancestors were not into converting the populations in the colonies. I wonder if that would not have been a good dead, sadly enough they did not!The Islam Holy Land is Mecca and Medina whereas Jerusalem is only third holy land for Muslim and there was no specific God order to secure Jerusalem for ourselves because that land is belonging for All Abraham descendant religion.
Islam is our chosen culture by our own desire and Arab armed force never landed in our land. Didn’t you know during Dutch Time that some kyai NU endorsed fatwa “Dasi is Haram” this is kind of fatwa is tactic to protect our society from “war of mind and idea” against the Dutch and we managed to survive and Islam still dominant even more than 300 years under Dutch rule. Yes there is some of our brother Javanese and Sundanese embrace Christianity but most of them came from the poor family and trash society.
I tell you, once Islam is embraced there is no way to return back to other religion even Spanish failed to convert Muslim Philippine and they only succeeded to convert Philippine Animism while the Muslim Philippine will never surrender forever at whatever cost to infidels Government.
Pieter: And who may that spokesman be? I have heard all kind of Bullsh*t on Al qaida but this one is new indeed.
Here link
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Yahiye_Gadahn
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Pieter says:
Tomaculum says:
Pieter, that is the problem with some of our moslem brothers. There are killings between moslems caused of hate, but they would excuse that as their fight for their unity.
And once again: don’t take the words of some guys here too earnestly, they just trying to parody. But they remain (poor) copies of the famoust, sometimes annoying but original A. Sudarsono. Its just like every Tom, Dick and Harry trying to copy Beethoven or Mozart, the result is only a jingle in x-dur in mol.No worries mate; I am sure that some guys here are just having fun like I have and that they just want to provoke reactions with some claims. Actually I am on a business trip with some time spare and this is better than TV or sitting in the hotels bar with the drinking “infidels”. For a Bule / Atheist, I do not drink, well only The Botol or its equivalent! You will not see me here on this forum when I return home as I will have better to do. My (Indonesian) wife did send me the link and since that moment I keep busy promoting “infidelism”!
Pieter
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Tomaculum says:
“The Quran also corrected major errors in the bible. Example is Jesus did not die on the cross, and no such thing as ‘trinity’. More proof?”
Are you serious? I still don’t see any proof. Where is the audio recording of Gods words? Or do you one of them believing on the basic of “I heard from someone that have heard from someone that ….”? 🙂
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Cukurungan says:
The Islam Holy Land is Mecca and Medina whereas Jerusalem is only third holy land for Muslim and there was no specific God order to secure Jerusalem for ourselves because that land is belonging for All Abraham descendant religion.
Well thank you to grant so much to us the Jews. But in the wider Muslim world they may think differently. Mohammed was allegedly taken to heaven by Al Bouraq a winged horse sent by God. This on his journey from Mecca to Jerusalem and his Ascension to seventh heavens. This happened not far from where Jesus allegedly was rescued by angels and raised to heaven.
Since you mentioned Abraham;
Isaac (the rightful son of Abraham by Sarah, his wife) was in God’s chosen lineage. He is the descendent of the Judeo-Christian line of beliefs.
Ishmael (the “bastard” son of Abraham, by Hagar, Sarah’s maid / pembantu) is run out of Dodge and is said to be a donkey of a man, whose descendants would always be at war with Isaac’s descendants. He is the one the Muslims claim that Abraham almost killed before God stepped in, and thus, he is on the “loosing” side, as he is NOT the chosen lineage of God (yet, he is the descendant of most Arab people and the Muslims in general).
Granted, this is a “simplified” version of events, yet we see that even now, the descendants of Ishmael are still warring against those of Isaac!
Of course as an Atheist that does not believe in God, I do not endorse the above. Within a proper historical context we could study the above events and claims and put them at their just value. Of course now days a person claiming to be going to heaven on a white horse with wings would be considered for the psychiatric institute! However, since I need to get into the thinking process of the “true” believers I can only follow the logic and I can only conclude that the descendants of Isaac, the rightful son of Abraham, are not hit by any inferiority complexes as so many descendants of Ishmael, the “bastard” seem to suffer of now days.
No need to comment on this as I was only following the history you religious fanatics so believe in!
Chalom Pieter
PS, I know who I descent from and need nothing more than to keep my believes for my self.
Tomaculum,
I think that the “true” believers mix up the Bible and the New Testament.
In deed the Bible, holy book to the Jews and many Catholics, does not mention Jesus as it was written 3,000 or so years before Jesus was even born. The New Testament, holy book to the Christians, takes on from The Bible to take is own way within the believes of Jesus.I am not a religious person, well on the contrary”¦, but would books and believes with 5000 and 2000 years of experience, amendments and many interpretations not be experience than some faiths strictly holding on to archaic believes without adaptation to the modern world?
Pieter
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Cukurungan saya:
I tell you, once Islam is embraced there is no way to return back to other religion even Spanish failed to convert Muslim Philippine and they only succeeded to convert Philippine Animism while the Muslim Philippine will never surrender forever at whatever cost to infidels Government.Pieter:
Correct, once Islam is embraced there is no way back. In some places that is. Well in Malaysia there is a lot of talk going on converts out of Islam having major legal problem with the religious courts even overruling the civil courts after clerks refuse to make the changes in the KTP. It is a shame that religion is mentioned in the ID carts any way. In no European countries do we mention such private matters. In some countries your profession will not even be mentioned. Luckily in Indonesia we are not yet there. With my in laws the issue is very colorful; we have Muslims, Protestants and Catholics. With me one Jew added to the collection, so all the monotheistic faiths are represented. And we never had a word of disagreement about it.
The Spanish failed to covert Muslim Philippine and succeeded only to convert the Philippine Animism. Correct, and who did the Arabs convert in Indonesia and Malaysia, if not similar type of Animism that had their own faith and believes? Well, no one had to convert any one in the first place. Not the Arabs and not the Spanish! The Dutch had other things to do than to convert and within the freedom of religion let most of the population alone with their faith. But sadly in the area where my wife came from most non-Muslim places of worship (Hindu and Buddhists mainly) disappeared over time. In the West we add places of worship for Muslims without canceling the existing faithor forcing by social pressure to have people jump board.
Pieter
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Julita says:
Aluang: In Islam, woman has a high status which no past nation ever achieved. For instance in Christianity the women were regarded as someone who did not even have a soul. Islam does justice to both men and women.
Jlta: I have already posted in regard the “high status?” of woman in Islam. The following is quoted from the ‘Instructions in the Catholic Faith: Even though human being is similar to the other things that God has created, they are different. Like a rock, human has height, size and weight; like a tree, human grows and takes nourishment; like a horse he/she feels and moves about. But the thing that makes human different is the souls, the spiritual part. The soul cannot die. You cannot strangle it, ‘Machine gun’ it, cut it up, smothers or burn it. When your soul leaves your body, in death __ your soul appears immediately before God.
Well, I am still waiting for Aluang’s reference.
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Some very important women in the Holy Bible/Christianity/Catholic:Genesis 3.15 To the snake (the devil) God said: “I will make you and the woman hate each other, her off spring and yours will be enemies. Her offspring will crush your head, and you will bite their heel”
Old Testament.
Judith 15. 8 The High Priest Joakim and the Council of Israel came from Jerusalem to see for themselves what great things the Lord had done for his people and to meet Judith and congratulate her. You are Jerusalem’s crowning glory, the heroine of Israel, the price and joy of our people!1 Esdras 4.14 – 20 “Gentlemen, he began, “the emporer is certainly powerful, men are numerous, and wine is strong, but who rules and controls them all? It is women!
Women gave birth to the emperor and all the men who rule over land and sea. Women brought them into the world. Women brought them up the men who planted the vineyards from which wine comes. Women make the clothes that men wear; women bring honor to men; in fact, without women, men couldn’t live.A man will leave his own father, who brought him up, and leave the own country to get married. He will forget his father, his mother, and his country to spend the rest of his life with his wife. So you must recognize that women are your masters.
A man loves his wife more than his parents. Some are driven out of their minds on account of a woman, and others become slaves for the sake of a woman.______________________
Jlta: Friends, the above is just to proof for Aluang’s insensitive, untrue remarks (Christians considered women have no souls) is. Up to now, he could not put his reference, because it is a fabricated, and I think it is O.K. for him. _______________________New Testament:
Virgin MaryLuke 1.27. Mt 1.18
The angel came to her and said, “Peace be with you! The Lord is with you and has greatly blessed you!” 29 “Don’t be afraid, Mary; God has been gracious to you. “¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦you will name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High God. “¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦His kingdom will never end!” “the Holy Spirit will come on you, and God’s power will rest upon you. For this reason the holy child will be called the SON OF GOD. 27 “You are the MOST BLESSED OF ALL WOMEN, and blessed is the child you will bear!The Wedding in Cana
John 2 .3 When the wine had given out, Jesus’ mother said to him., “They are out of wine.” What would you have me do? ‘Jesus replied. “My time has not yet come.” Jesus’s mother then told the servants, “Do whatever He tells you.” At Mary’s request, Jesus worked His first miracle.
______________________Jlta: Jesus even when it was not yet time for Him His to do miracles, upon His Mother’s request, He changed water into wine. In the above Maria, without anybody asking her, she went out of her way to ask her Son. What the more if they had asked her. It was only wine, what more important matters in our daily life, pain, suffering, hunger, sickness would she not ask her Son for us, especially if we ask her? This is in all our daily life see what she would do if we ask her with humility and love. She is Mother to us all, all humanity so try to approach her and just see for yourself what happens. She is the most loving mother. Say just:” Mother Maria, I love you!’ Just as you say ‘I love you to your own mother.”
Jesus gave the best of wine, through our life, that is what Jesus wanted to give us, always remember, the BEST..
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Jlta: The angel respected Mary . God trusted her to bring up His Son. Isn’t she special? For an earthly queen we genuflect before her. Does not the Virgin Mary, the Queen of Heaven, our Heavenly Mother deserves more?
Many girls are named Mary, Maria or added to the name they already have. Priest put Maria besides other names they choose. For example: Jose Maria Escriva.
St. Veronica was the woman who came up to Jesus when he was carrying the cross up to Golgotha to wipe His bloody face. St. Elizabeth, St. Bridgit. St. Terese etc. etc all are important women in the Catholic Faith.The above shows, women not only have SOULS in Christianity/Catholic but beautiful holy souls whose life is good to be admired or be imitated.
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Aluang: Alhumdullilah mbak Julita, I gave Quranic verses and you can always refer and validate, yet you accused me of little white lie. Mbak, the most honest contributors in this forum are Sheikh Cuk and me. We would not do anything to risk our chance of sipping wine with hooris and watching unbelievers burn in hell.
(Qur’an 4:156) Judas, not Jesus, was crucified on the cross, in a case of mistaken identity. Christians were evil (sorry no offence) because they worshipped an evil man stapled on some wooden cross.Jlta: I went to check Qur’an 4:156, very sorry to say there is no mentioning of Judas.
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Aluang: I welcome you to the truth. To be a certified Muslimah, you have to say the shahada in presence of another Muslim.Jlta: Thanks, but NO thanks especially after reading your postings, the more and more I am convinced, I am on the right path and how precious, beautiful rich my Faith is.
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Daniel Khaleel says:
Julita… that is a nice post that you just made. You are so right to lift up the status of women. They should never be pushed down or silenced or forced to “submit”. Men and women are co-partners in this life. We see the beauty of God in his entire creation. Both men and women were beautifully crafted by God.
However, I do disagree about the emphasis placed on Mary by some. I would say that (a) she was blessed by God for her virtue, and (b) provides a good model of what it means to be a virtuous Christian woman, and (c) she was called to a very holy task. But I would not be inclined to utter any words of prayer from my mouth to her because she was a human vessel (like you and I) who submitted to Gods will.
Our God is with us. He hears us. There is one intercessor between God and man – Jesus Christ. So, for that reason, I would not offer prayers to another.
Your brother in Christ,
Daniel.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Dear Julita, be patience in re to ‘women with no soul’. I don’t bookmark everything I’ve read. You seem to be overwhelming with victory just because I have not come up with reference yet. I will find and post it just for your sake. Islam teaches me to be patience.
What happened? You were about to convert to Islam. I told you not to read too much of those anti-Islamic’s postings by morons hell bent on destroying Islam. Truth always persist.
Salam.
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Janma says:
Aluang said to julita,
” I told you not to read too much of those anti-Islamic’s postings by morons hell bent on destroying Islam.”
Hon, don’t be too hard on yourself, you’re not really a moron, just lost in your search for parody. And don’t worry, we are no longer reading your anti islamic posts. -
Best regards for Julita ^_^.
Think deeply, Islam itself is not totally bad. Depends on how people interpret it. During middle age, islamic civilizations were at the highest. Science, technology, art, culture flourished. It is also tolerance to other religions. But the way that radical islam want by forcing sharia is totally different. Look at taliban and some part of africa. Only disaster! -
O I forgot, mbak Janma, which of my postings are anti-Islamic? Or you mean pro-Islamic?
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Jokoboyo says:
Why there are more readers in this forum opposed the sharia law implementation in Indonesia ?
It maybe because of,
1. The readers in IM are the infidels
2. The Indonesian Muslim 99% do not have the internet access beside of Indonesia with 245 milion population consist of 90% MuslimsIf the minority do not like sharia law, I am very sure Indonesia wide territories will have some places like Bali, Sulawesi, Pontianak, Timor, ambon, Irian which can be of your living choice for those non Muslim. Your KTP are equally accepted in those areas, then why are you so bother with sharia law ? let it be naturally becoming the choice of the Muslim brother’s life style, in anyway the Muslim is the majority here.
I do not see any problem, why not sharia ?
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If you don’t see any problem mr jayabaya, maybe you should open your eyes.
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Colson says:
@jayabaya: Your question: if the majority wants “sharia-laws”, why not? The answer: because a theocracy is contrary to the constitutional state of RI.
As you may well know: theocracies are over a millennium overdue, while constitutional states are the standard of modern countries which are member of the United Nations.
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Robert says:
@Jokoboyo
If the minority do not like sharia law, I am very sure Indonesia wide territories will have some places like Bali, Sulawesi, Pontianak, Timor, ambon, Irian which can be of your living choice for those non Muslim.
This has Apartheid written all over it. In the past, the South-African government tried to create special territories for black people, so called homelands or bantustans. The purpose was to concentrate the people of certain ethnic groups (read: black people). What you propose here are homelands for non-Muslims, so they wouldn’t be bothered by sharia-law.
It is better to ask why non-Muslims should be bothered in the first place with sharia-law. When Muslims want to live according Islamic rules, that should be possible without bothering non-Muslim, shouldn’t it?
Your ideas would put the axe in the roots of Indonesia being a Pancasila state and would threaten the unitarian state and cause the falling apart of Indonesia. When you want to separate people you might end up with Indonesia being separated itself.
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Assalamualaikum mbak Janma, re,
If you don’t see any problem mr jayabaya, maybe you should open your eyes.
You are one big hodgepodge. First you said you are disgusted by halal underage sex which is openly practised in every Islamic countries. Then you and Sylvester think it is all dandy because Islam once had golden age. Now you tell Jokoboyo there is problem with Islamic’s Shariah Law. Tell me where you stand.
You may have known or talked to a few Indonesian Muslims about Islam, but try talking to Pakistani or Arab Muslims. Indonesian Muslims are regarded as heretics or pseudo-Muslims by their Middle-Eastern co-religionists because we are the ONLY group that do not conform to mainstream Islam. In Indonesia, Javanese beliefs are still predominant in Islam. When you talk with them, you get very confused thinking Islam is just like Christianity or Buddhism.
You seen and heard it yourself from Pakistani Sohail. Sohail said pedophilly is repulsive, but when I pointed out that prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) did just that, he said it is an HONOR to have your underage children be deflowered by a prophet. In another word, it is Allah-certified. Somewhere in the bible I am sure there is a passage that says children queuing up for a bonking session with prophet Esa (Jesus).
Now I tell you I am advocating ME Islam and their shariah application. You are either with me or not.
Salam.
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Ihaknt says:
Sylvester, dont forget parts of Indonesia…and of course parts of the mid east itself – now war torn.
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Dear mbak Julita, here it is,
Women had no soul – The Book of Exodus
If you want a shortcut, scroll down to {p. 69}. Bear this in mind: Women can only be truly liberated under the Shariah.
Allah knows best. Salam.
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Mbak Julita, also check out,
Women do not have soul: Bible & Church
15) On page 143: Three quotes from Women, Church, and State by Matilda Joslyn Gage “Let woman first prove that she has a soul, both the Bible and the Church deny it.” – An opposing speaker at the Woman’s Suffrage Convention of 1854, page 471
Next time, google search yourself. It is only a click away. I can’t babysit you all the time.
Salam.
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Is that really true that the majority in Indonesia wants sharia law? I never heard such pooling acquire all of Indonesian?
Besides … I think Indonesia is a democracy (ha, ha). In a democracy, the voice of the minority will always be respected. In Indonesia? If the minority says something then they are “infidels”. Respect? Democracy? Ha, ha, ha!!! -
Aluang, sometime I think you disgraced islam itself like Janma said.
Do you mean your mom had no soul? So, it is OK then to kill baby girl then.
I believe GOD gave my mom and any other women a pure soul when they’re born, just like every man.
False phropets had been foretold. These include radical islam with their sharia. They have to be eliminated at any cost. -
I think you blowed some weeds last night. You better refreshen up yourself and reread my post.
Bear this in mind: Women can only be truly liberated under the Shariah.
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Sylvester, I have a very good judgement of Bules’s character from my many years dealing and working inside their establishments. I know your kind. Outwardly you despise Islam (whether it be pseudo, moderate ot radical) but try hard not to show it. Inwardly, you are indulging in Islamo fantasies over Allah’s certified polygamy, incest and pedophilly. In your case I suspect it is pedophilly you are drooling. The one thing that stop you from embracing Islam fully to live up to your fantasia was your government banned it, and is hunting down Bule pedophiles in my country.
Surprise how I crack your code? It is because you are well-versed, you knew those suras and quranic verses in regard to underage sex are authentic, and that Muslims, radical or moderate (minus Indonesian pseudo-Muslims), practised it openly. You tried to dismiss me in this forum as being ‘radical’, but in favour of moderate Muslims, indirectly supporting pedophilly. Shame on you. Either you embrace ‘moderate’ Islam or stay out of it. Allah knows best.
Salam.
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To Sylvester again, pedophilly is a very ugly word in ALL non-Islamic countries but a virtuous tradition in ALL Islamic countries. Shariah supports that view because according to authentic hadidthes, Islamic prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) practised pedophilly, and being a role model for all mankind to come according to the quran. Indonesia Muslims being the only exception because our pseudo-Muslims population are either non-religious Muslim-by-birth or Kejawen or Abangan. Thighing and penetration of underage girls are strongly detested and can’t even be imagined in Javanese society.
Sylvester, if you are from a Bule country, chances are that you met more ME, Paki or Bangladeshi Muslims than Indonesian Muslims You knew very well how shariah viewed pedophilly favourably. Take your perceived ‘most moderate’ age 20+ to 70+ non-Indonesian Muslim and ask him about sex with a 5 years old, none of them see any problem with it. Moderate and radical Muslims embraced pedophilly. Only difference is that moderate don’t go out blowing themselves up. With the advent of internet and unlimited resources in regard to Islamic tradition, your attack on me proved that you have pedophillac intent, AND is not dismissing Islam JUST IN CASE ONE DAY YOU MAY BE A MUSLIM. Michael Jackson did just that and is now guilt-free. Embrace Islam, say it out loud with pride of your coverted intent and you will be relieved of that guilt.
Salam.
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Hassan says:
Ahh, been away a while, but it feels good to be back. I sensed a very strange development nowadays, as our very own Mr. Aluang Anak Bawang or whatever his name is had ‘drastically’ changed his stance. I didn’t mean from anti-Islam to pro-Islam, as he’s always anti-Islam all the way. Nay, I was trying to point out the change in his approach from the all out Islam bashing Kejawen style into this obvious lame Borat-ish (or Ahmad Sudarsono-ish, for those who knew him) imitation rantings.
If Ahmad Sudarsono tried to imitate Borat, Aluang is definitely trying to imitate Ahmad. What’s the matter Aluang, you felt that your traditional bashing didn’t work, you have to resort to sarcasms and parodies now? Tsk..tsk..
For those who had the wrong ideas about Mas Aluang, he is definitely not a stoic vanguard defender of Islamic faith as he seemed to suggest in his posts, he’s a staunch follower of the kejawen ‘religion’, yes the one and the same with that pagan descent faith.
Obviously, Mas Aluang was just trying to rile some of us. Let’s just retrace Aluang’s track record and credentials, take some time to search his older posts, and we will see who he really is, his true face. Even old ‘patrons’ like ihaknt, dimp, or Janma can vouch for that.
OK Aluang, if you’re such a pious Islam defender you’re trying to portray, then let me ask you, did you ever perform the shalat, zakat, or fasting? Now don’t say things you never actually do Aluang, as that is hypocrisy.
About the topic ‘pedophilia’ you were so eloquently trying to associate with Islam, let’s consult the very same source you had quoted before : http://www.answering-Christianity.com/ac12.htm#links. Don’t tell me you haven’t opened that one, you’re not cherry picking your sources, are you?
Lastly, ‘cleric’ Aluang, Islam is not all about pedophilia, wife beating, or infidel killing as you’re trying to imply. It never was. If you insisted on believing such things, than that is the Islam based on your interpretations, not the true one.
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Surprise how I crack your code? It is because you are well-versed, you knew those suras and quranic verses in regard to underage sex are authentic, and that Muslims, radical or moderate (minus Indonesian pseudo-Muslims), practised it openly.
You tried to dismiss me in this forum as being ‘radical’, but in favour of moderate Muslims, indirectly supporting pedophilly.
This is a very stupid statement. Of course, I am anti pedophily. And anyone that what to force islamic country or sharia obviously a radical islam, a kind of virus.
I think Hassan is more rationale. I do not believe pedophily is common in any country.
I think aluang himself has to more consistent about his statements. -
Hassan, the topless and bottomless bar – if that doesn’t strike a cord, you need to follow up a little before posting.
Sylvester, would a wolf in sheep skin claim to be one. The Intl’ Child Protection Agency is watching you.
Salam.
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Pieter quoted (and seemed to acknowledge the truth to the matter) these things :
Isaac (the rightful son of Abraham by Sarah, his wife) was in God’s chosen lineage. He is the descendent of the Judeo-Christian line of beliefs.Ishmael (the “bastard” son of Abraham, by Hagar, Sarah’s maid / pembantu) is run out of Dodge and is said to be a donkey of a man, whose descendants would always be at war with Isaac’s descendants. He is the one the Muslims claim that Abraham almost killed before God stepped in, and thus, he is on the “loosing” side, as he is NOT the chosen lineage of God (yet, he is the descendant of most Arab people and the Muslims in general).
First of all Pieter, Ishmael was after all Abraham’s first born son and he shared Abraham’s DNA and heritage. In the societies of old, wasn’t it usually the first born son who would ‘inherit’ a person’s lineage? Secondly, none of us were present on Abraham’s death bed when he decreed who shall be his chosen lineage successor, you can quote any Talmudic, Torah, or even Biblical reference all you want, but Muslims can also quote Quranic sources, so it’s only going to be your words against ours. That’s a useless argument in itself.
Alarmingly, you attributed the word “bastard” onto Abraham’s first born son, Ishmael. That sir, implies that you’re accusing Abraham of adultery with his maid/pembantu. That’s quite outrageous, isn’t it? Calling one of the great prophet of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as having an adulterous affair with his maid, no less. Indeed, I have heard worst things from some of the Jews on other forums, as some of them called Ishmael as a product of inbreeding, slandering Abraham yet again, asserting that he had an affair with his own sister! Hence the donkey look thing right?
Alas, I can only say such is life. The ancient Jews were never shy of resorting to slander in order to achieve what they want. Aren’t they the very same people who slandered Jesus’ (aka Isa a.s) mother, disbelieving her virgin pregnancy and accused her of adultery as well? Denied Jesus’ (Isa a.s) messianic mission, then oppressed him and his followers?
Lastly, Ishmael and his descendants are on the “loosing” side? Well maybe lately it seemed that way. But I reckon it wasn’t his descendants who were forced into exiles after exiles, diaspora after diaspora, and countless persecutions (until recently) throughout the ages? How about those 6 million who perished during WW II? “Winners” and chosen lineage indeed. 🙂
Cheers.
Aluang, No OOT and discrediting tactics, please – that should strike a cord. 🙂
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Assalamualaikum mas Hassan, re,
If Ahmad Sudarsono tried to imitate Borat, Aluang is definitely trying to imitate Ahmad. ……
It will be an honor to be in Achmad’s league, I would not mind, but I was actually coming to the aid of Sheikh Cuk as he needed props badly. Let me rephrase your sentence and see if there is any parallel.
If Ahmadinejad tried to imitate Mohammad Bin Abdullah, Hassan is definitely trying to imitate Ahmadinejad. …..
Have you locate the ‘topless’ and ‘bottomless’ bar postings? I will have worded testimony in these site very soon. Anyway while you were ‘away’, I trapped some forum contributors with pedo-intent trying to follow in the footstep of our great prophet (peace be upon him), but not wanting to convert.
Salam.
Comment on “Sharia Application”.
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toma, the Quran speaks of ‘Big Bang’ 1400 years ago – that is enough proof that it is from Allah Subhana Wata’ala.
The Quran also corrected major errors in the bible. Example is Jesus did not die on the cross, and no such thing as ‘trinity’. More proof?
Re mbak Julita’s
I welcome you to the truth. To be a certified Muslimah, you have to say the shahada in presence of another Muslim.
To be a Muslim is to pledge the covenant with Allah, the Creator of the heavens and earth, the Ruler of all that exists, the Lord of Majesty and Highness, stating La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad -ur-Rasool-Allah, but first one must understand what this means.
(None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah)
Salam.