Heretic Outreach
Jul 3rd, 2007, in News, by PatungThe government reaches out to heretics.
The head of the Bengkulu office of the Department of Religion (Depag), Mukhtaridi Baidjuri, has invited any members of non-orthodox Islamic groups to give up their strange beliefs and return to the fold of government approved Islam.
We are inviting them to return to the correct teachings, ie., those based on the Quran and hadiths of Muhammad.
He said there were many followers of heretical groups such as Ahmadiyah in Bengkulu and they often tried to spread their beliefs to others. In one village alone of North Bengkulu, called Sungai Hitam, there were 150 Ahmadiyah members, he worried. The Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI) had already ruled that Ahmadiyah was unacceptable, he said, because Ahmadiyah recognised a prophet after Muhammad, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Pakistan, whereas in true Islam God had no more need of prophets after Muhammad bin Abdullah.
The call had already been sent out:
We have already invited them to return to true Islam, but the problem is that whether they choose to listen to us or not is up to them.
He said no force could be used to sway them, only urging and asking. However if they insisted on keeping to their false beliefs they must not attempt to proselytize to others, because this could lead to things happening that no-one wanted, he said.
168 Comments on “Heretic Outreach”
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Odinius says:
So what you have is two articles, one from britain and one from pakistan, and you say this means it’s “common in islam?”
If you think that “proves” your point, you have a thing to learn about what constitutes proof.
Let me give you an example, hmm, ok, here’s one, “paedophilia is common in Christianity.”
Proof?
evangelist-denies-he-abused-young-girls.
money-cant-buy-absolution-for-clerics-sins.
So does that mean that there is paedophilia in Christianity, the religion? No. It means there are Christian paedophiles, and there are Muslim male rapists, and, gasp, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, aetheist, Jewish, pagan male rapists and paedophiles too.
Unless you can furnish some statistics demonstrating that male rape is more common in Muslim countries AND okayed by islamic authorities, then you’re statement is just as vapid and unsupported as it was before.
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Cukurungan says:
dewaratugedeanom Said:
ISLAM AND PREDESTINATION
Reading Cukurungan’s statement teaches us one thing: If all men and women are predestined to heaven or hell, then faith doesn’t matter. Good works are no more valuable than bad ones. Rituals are ridiculous. Martyrdom is madness. Eat, drink, and fornicate, for a backrub sealed our fate.Cukurungan :
The beauty of our live is no one exactly know which is our final destination even it is already pre-destined (Taqdir) and Taqdir information is only belonging to GOD only and no one else.
The example wrong statement about Taqdir is “God will taqdir me become Rich after I get retirement”. This is wrong because it don’t happen yet.
The example correct statement about Taqdir is “God was already taqdir me born in Solo”. This is correct because it did happened.
Taqdir is only applicable for a past tense.I will give you very simple lessons about Taqdir. When you walk cross of heavy traffic streets. What you are going to do?
First option, you just run across the streets without vigilance to the traffic because you believe taqdir will determine your fate.
Second option, you will take special pre- caution and make careful walk to avoid being hit by Car.
According the Islamic tenets, we have to chose the second option because there is a strong obligations that we have to make a strong effort first before we put everything on Taqdir. For a moslem, Taqdir is only merely an understanding or awareness that anything happened on us is in God knowledge but it doesn’t mean defuse or deny or even eliminate our obligations to make a strong effort and a detail planning to be succeded.
Taqdir is only applicable for a past tense.Taqdir is only an understanding that God knowing of everything both in the past and in the future and I won’t worship to God that He doesn’t know the future because this kind of God better learn first to a shaman before he announced himself as God.
The super scenario of the universe has been written by God Himself that details of everything include our fate . However even the fate of every people already pre-destined, in the final judgement day, God won’t say ” you will be burned in hell because I already determined so” instead of God will say “you’re sinner because you killed Cukurungan without solid justification and you will be burned in hell because of your sins committed by your own hand and blame yourself”. God Court is very justice because God never give punishment without evidence and witness . Earth, our hand, foot and skins will be able to speak and becomes witness of our deeds during our prosecution in God court.
I believe my explanation is clear enough but if you still confuse don’t hesitate to ask again and I have to say Islam is only suitable for a person who keen to thinking and reasoning.
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Odinius :
unless you can furnish some statistics demonstrating that male rape is more common in Muslim countries AND okayed by islamic authorities, then you’re statement is just as vapid and unsupported as it was before.
Cukurungan :
I am just curious how much hi hi hi al-qaida paid you.
Anyway this is selected of a top rank statistics of horrible crimes by country
Crime Statistics > Statistics > Rapes (per capita) (Latest available) by country
Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people
#2 Seychelles: 0.788294 per 1,000 people
#3 Australia: 0.777999 per 1,000 people
#4 Montserrat: 0.749384 per 1,000 people
#5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people
#6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people
#7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people
#8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people
#9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people
#10 Iceland: 0.246009 per 1,000 people
#11 Papua New Guinea: 0.233544 per 1,000 peopleCrime Statistics > Statistics > Murders (per capita) (Latest available) by country
Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
#2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
#3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
#4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
#5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
#6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 people
#7 Estonia: 0.107277 per 1,000 people
#8 Latvia: 0.10393 per 1,000 people
#9 Lithuania: 0.102863 per 1,000 people
#10 Belarus: 0.0983495 per 1,000 people
#11 Ukraine: 0.094006 per 1,000 people
#12 Papua New Guinea: 0.0838593 per 1,000 peopleCrime Statistics > Statistics > Kidnappings (per capita) (Latest available) by country
Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 Colombia: 120.617 kidnappings per 1 millio
#2 Mexico: 11.9488 kidnappings per 1 millio
#3 Philippines: 5.60001 kidnappings per 1 millio
#4 Ecuador: 4.93864 kidnappings per 1 millio
#5 Venezuela: 4.29557 kidnappings per 1 millio
#6 Brazil: 2.76714 kidnappings per 1 millio
#7 Nigeria: 0.264045 kidnappings per 1 millio
#8 South Africa: 0.248061 kidnappings per 1 millio
#9 India: 0.0703532 kidnappings per 1 millioBy having those data all mankind should thanks to God who already spread to earth the most peace lovers people of the moslem like me.
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Shiva says:
Odinius Says:
so does that mean that there is paedophilia in Christianity, the religion? no. it means there are Christian paedophiles. and there are Muslim male rapists. and”¦gasp”¦Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, aetheist, Jewish, pagan male rapists and paedophiles too.
I can say that I am fully aware of homosexuality and pedophilia in the Catholic clergy, and I am not in denial of the fact.
How is it possible that the Vatican remains silent regarding homosexuality and pedophilia in the Catholic clergy? In the United States it is common to link the impunity of these priests to the cover-up of the Bishops.
podex maximus / holy arseholes.
There is very little on the net concerning male on male sex, and no islamic site wishes to approach the subject, in fact they are all in denial.
So what information that can be found are on non-islamic sites, and should I start quoting from them, you will claim that it is anti islamic propaganda.
So.
The distinction between pederasty (sex with boys) and sodomy (penetration of “males”) was commonly, albeit not universally maintained throughout the ancient world, and indeed survived throughout most of the history of Islam until at least the nineteenth century (in spite of the futile objections of some medieval scholars). Apparently, boy-love was considered okay by many people because, like “natural eunuchs,” underage boys also lacked the “defining skill of males” (sexual potency with women). The Qur’an itself gives support to pederasts in its glimpses of paradise:
52:17-29 And they shall have boys [ghilmaan] circulating among them as if they were hidden pearls.
56:22-23 and dark-eyed ones [hoorun ‘eenun], the like of hidden pearls76:19 And immortal boys [wildaanun mukhalladoona] will circulate among them, when you see them you will count them as scattered pearls.
2:25 And they shall have immaculate partners [azwaajun mutahharatun] in [the gardens] “¦
4:57 And they shall have immaculate partners [azwaajun mutahharatun] in them “¦
One of the great male Sufi contemporaries of Rabi’a al-‘Adawiyya provided a divine justification for a pederastic relationship, which was repeated without a hint of disapproval in a 10th century book about great Sufi women:
One day Rabi’a saw Rabah [al-Qaysi] kissing a young boy [“huwa yuqabbil sabiyyan”]. ‘Do you love him?’ she asked. ‘Yes,’ he said. To which she replied, ‘I did not imagine that there was room in your heart to love anything other than God, the Glorious and Mighty!’ Rabah was overcome at this and fainted. When he awoke, he said, ‘On the contrary, this is a mercy that God Most High has put into the hearts of his slaves.’
(Quoted from as-Sulami, Early Sufi Women = Dhikr an-niswa al-muta ‘abbidat as sufiyyat, translated by Rkia E. Cornell, Louisville, KY: Fons Vitae, 1999, pp. 78-79.)
Besides boys, straight Muslim men were occasionally interested in grown adults as well, provided they were not “male.” There is a hadith in which the Prophet’s companions asked whether they were allowed to use men (presumably prisoners of war) as “eunuchs” to fulfill their sexual urges, since they were far from their wives.Bukhari LXII 6:9 [Narrated by ibn Mas’ud:] “We used to fight [in battle] together with the Prophet, peace be upon him. There were no women with us. We said: O Messenger, may we treat some as eunuchs [a laa nastakhsii]? He forbade us to do so.”
The version in Bukhari LXII 8:13 says that rather than let the companions “treat [some] as eunuchs” in the absence of their wives, the Prophet “allowed them to marry corrupted women” [rakhasa lana an nankih al-maraa bil-shaub] from the vicinity, and he recited to them from the Qur’an: “O ye who believe! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression.”The fact that Muhammad forbade the companions from designating men as eunuchs is not the point here. Of course, using a straight male as a eunuch was wrong “” that was essentially the sin of the people of Lut. But what about using a eunuch (i.e. one who permanently lacks arousal with women) as a eunuch? Given that ibn Mas’ud made reference to the use of eunuchs for sexual gratification, and given that the Prophet understood what he meant, that indicates that the use of eunuchs for sexual gratification was known in Arabic society, and was considered a use that was appropriate to eunuchs. Since eunuchs were not considered male, there was no prohibition against it, not even in the Qur’an.
Chucky
Anyway this is selected of a top rank statistics of horrible crimes by country
And what do these endless lists you keep posting prove?
It proves that you are unwilling to accept the fact that there are many faults within Islam.
What Islam has done to India, the Catholic church has done to south America.
The difference is, Catholics do not have holy scriptures that sanctions their crimes.
Once you take a closer look there is not much difference between Catholicism and Islam, like Catholics the most respected woman in Islam is Mary, Catholics honour Fatima (mohammeds daughter).They both condemn birth control strongely, priests much like Muslims have a liking for “pearls”.
So chucky how about some debating instead of endless spam.
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Shiva:
And what do these endless lists you keep posting prove?
Cukurungan :
To always remind you that God is so gracious and He already spread the moslem around the globe to show the live example of the most peace lovers people on earth.
Our Jihadist Brother Says:
“Convert, to be killed or pay taxes”The out come:
800 years spanish ruled by Islam and today moslem existence in there is almost none
1000 years India ruled by Islam and today moslem is only 20% of the total india population.
It is very clear evidence when Islam is in power, we never forced anyone becomes Islam.
in the contrary
Crussader Say:
“Love your enemies as you love yourself”but the outcome :
400 years latter after Christian ruled America, population of natives america was jumped -up from almost 100 millions to only hundred thousand remain today.
Because, Crusader was hiding their complete word “Love your enemies ‘when they were buried’ as you are love yourself”
Shiva :
It proves that you are unwilling to accept the fact that there are many faults within Islam.
Cukurungan :
I tell you that Islam is already 700 years in the archipelago and we already chosen it to becomes our solution but if it becomes your problems then none is our business and please sorts it out by yourself.
Shiva:
So chucky how about some debating instead of endless spam.Cukurunga:
Please don’t exaggerate the matters this is only nice virtual discussion and it won’t harm anyone.
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CHUCK
Please don’t exaggerate the matters this is only nice virtual discussion and it won’t harm anyone.
Tell that to:
Tell that to
Theresia Morangke, Alfita Poliwo, Yarni Sambue, and Noviana Malewa.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
PREDESTINATION
Cukurungan said:
I will give you very simple lessons about Taqdir. When you walk cross of heavy traffic streets. What you are going to do?
First option, you just run across the streets without vigilance to the traffic because you believe taqdir will determine your fate.
Second option, you will take special pre- caution and make careful walk to avoid being hit by Car.
According the Islamic tenets, we have to chose the second option because there is a strong obligations that we have to make a strong effort first before we put everything on Taqdir. For a moslem, Taqdir is only merely an understanding or awareness that anything happened on us is in God knowledge but it doesn’t mean defuse or deny or even eliminate our obligations to make a strong effort and a detail planning to be succeded.
Taqdir is only applicable for a past tense.And Allah just watches and enjoys the show and doesn’t give a f*ck. What if I chose the second option and still got hit by a car driven by a Jinn? If Allah would have known and didn’t warn me that would make Allah an accomplice of Satan who wants to lead us astray, isn’t it.
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Odinius said:
if Christianity was as monolithic and literal as the islam you seem to think is the only one, then all Christians would own slaves, just as long as they are non-believers but circumcised by their owner. and, of course, it’s best if they’re captured in war
I have a question to Cukurungan, Sputjam, Odinius and all you ‘Defenders of the Faith’.
Why are there hundreds of thousands even millions of Pakistani Muslims in England, Turkish Muslims in Germany and Holland, Algerian Muslims in France, Moroccan Muslims in Belgium etc. etc.? Did they come to live there hoping for a better future than the one their respective Muslim home countries could provide, or where they forced to move there to become slaves of the imperialistic masters of the decadent West like the slaves of the caliphs in Muhammad’s wake?
Or did they come just to wage Jihad, like dogs biting the hand that feeds? -
CHUCK
800 years spanish ruled by Islam and today moslem existence in there is almost none
1000 years India ruled by Islam and today moslem is only 20% of the total india population.
Good proof that Islam is not wanted.
And the more awake people are about the true nature of Islam, the more people will oppose Islam.
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Shiva :
Good proof that Islam is not wanted
And the more awake people are about the true nature of Islam, the more people will oppose Islam.Cukurungan :
You are cordially invited to entertain yourself and I fully guarantee that my FPI and FBR brother won’t take raid on the rooms where you masturbate and cry in internet take place.
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Chucky
You are cordially invited to entertain yourself and I fully guarantee that my FPI and FBR brother won’t take raid on the rooms where you masturbate and cry in internet take place.
You and your brothers.
You people are pathetic, you are a load of camel piss fed cowards who are only brave when you are part of a brainless mob.
I have no problems with masturbating, it good for a healthy mind, and it harms no-one.
Not like you low life who for sexual pleasure must take young under-age girls, or hairless boys.
The fatwa of Mufkhaza
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/013341.php#c277594
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dewaratugedeanom Says:
and Allah just watches and enjoys the show and doesn’t give a f*ck. What if I chose the second option and still got hit by a car driven by a Jinn? If Allah would have known and didn’t warn me that would make Allah an accomplice of Satan who wants to lead us astray, isn’t it.
Cukurungan :
Tell me when God promised to you that He will give you happiness, a good life, a goods health and free from accident in this world’s.
Tell me what is your contributions to make you have two hand, two foot, two eyes and a mouth you use it to complaint and curse God.
God has full rights to decide when those borrowed your bodies part be taken one by one (by accident or sickness) or taken it at once when you death.
I tell to you that you are the one will be questioned by God for everything has been borrowed to you and not HIM.
dewaratugedeanom Says:
Why are there hundreds of thousands even millions of Pakistani Muslims in England, Turkish Muslims in Germany and Holland, Algerian Muslims in France, Moroccan Muslims in Belgium etc. etc.? Did they come to live there hoping for a better future than the one their respective Muslim home countries.
Cukurungan :
All of them are a reciprocal visitors of the results a nice visit from the western country during their colonialitations to Asia and Africa since 14 to 20 Century.
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Tomaculum says:
Cukurungan,
the turkey was never a colony of Germany. Some of the moslems (and their ulamas) worked hand in hand with the Nazi Germany. There are nowadays millions of Turkish Muslims in Germany simply because they were recruited as foreign workers and they stay there (and took/take their families) because they can live better up there. -
Sputjam says:
koran is a guide for those who believe in one God, not for atheist.
Despite what was mentioned, there is no contradictory statement in the koran, and it should be consistent.
4.82 Why do the not study the koran carefully?If it were from other than God, they would have found many contradictions thereinand
39.23 God sent down the best message, a scripture that is consistent.
orthodox Arabs created the hadith and sunnahs and made rules to the koran by mistranslating certain words intended to mislead and make mankind worship their idol in mecca.
Only those with good intentions will ultimately understand the true revelations as follows :-
God most gracious, the one who teaches the koran. The One who created the human being.(55:2-3)
and
Once We recite it, you shall follow this koran. then it is We who will explain it.(75:16-18)
Despite what was mentioned earlier, the koran encourages mankind to use their common sense and observe everything on the earth and in the heaven.some people discuss about God without knowledge :-
Indeed these revelations are clear in the chest of those who posses knowledge. Only the wicked disregard our revelations(29.49)
and
some people argue about God without knowledge, without guidance and without an enlightening scripture(22.56)have you notice those who claim for themselves to be pure?God is the only One who purifies whomever He wills without injustice.(4:49)
God encourages us to think for ourselves-
Do you not see that God sends down water from the sky to produce fruits of various colours?The mountains snow white and red streaks of different shades and shining black, also the people, the animals and the livestock of different colours? That is why the servants of God who reverance Himare the knowledgeable. God is almighty and forgiving.(35:27-28)“And no one could be in fidelity, except by the grace of the God and (He) would place filth on those who do not think” (Q.10:100)
and
Had we but listened and used our common sense, we should not be among the companions of the blazing fire(67:10)These are the simple injunctions Muslims should follow :-
2:221 And do not marry the pagan women until they believe. And do not marry the underage girls. Believing women are better from the pagan women although they allure you. And do not marry the idol worshipers (men/women) (musyrikeen) until they believe – and the slaves (men/women) who believe are better from the idol worshipers – although they might allure you. It is they who call you to the Fire. And God calls you to the garden and forgiveness with His permission. And He explains His signs to them so that they can remember.
You are forbidden to marry your own mother, your daughters, your sisters, your father’s sisters, your mother’s sisters, your brother’s daughters, your sister’s daughters, your foster mother who nursed you, girls nursed by the same woman as you, your mother-in-laws, your step daughters, and women who were previously married to your sons.(4.23)
You are forbidden to associate God with anything, you are forbidden to kill your infants from fear of poverty, you are forbidden to commit gross sins, obvious or hidden, you are forbidden to kill another man except for just causes, you are forbidden to approach the orphan’s money, you are forbidden from profiteering(riba), you are forbidden to be a false witness for the benefit of yourself or your own relatives (6:151-152)
you are forbidden from doing evil deeds-obvious or hidden sins-or go against the truth, or to associate God with idols and to attribute lies to Him.(7:33)
Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.(5:3)
The believer do not ask any money from mankind ;-
34:47 Say: “I have not asked you for any wage; you can keep it. My wage is from God, and He is witness over all things.”
Follow those who do not ask for any wage, they are guided.(36:21)
Therefore there is no such thing as a zakat fitrah.
there is no such thing as five dail prayers.
there is no haj, as haj is idol worship.
no such thing as fasting.abraham never did the haj, fast, five daily prayers. instead :-
“Abraham was a nation, humble to GOD, a monotheist; he was not of those who set-up partners. Thankful to what provisions he was provided; He selected him, and guided him to a Straight Path. And We have given him good in this world, and in the hereafter he is one of the upright. Then We inspired you: ‘follow the creed of Abraham, monotheism; he was not from those who set-up partners.” (16:120-123)
the orthodox Arabs never did embrace the koran during the period of Mohamed.
9:97 The Arabs are the worst in rejection and hypocrisy, and more likely not to know the limits of what God has sent down upon His messenger. God is Knower, Wise
9:101 And from the Arabs around you are hypocrites, as well as from the city people, they persist in hypocrisy. You do not know them, but We know them. We will punish them twice, then they will be returned to a great punishment.If you follow their invented hadith and sunnah and mistranslation of the koran, you will definitely die a pagan.
25:43 Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?
25:44 Or do you think that most of them hear or understand? They are just like cattle. No, they are worse off.Use your thinking caps. if god had ordained you worship Him 5 times a day, it would have been clearly written in the koran.
as for those who do not beleieve in God, it does not really matter.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
We have a new sect – Sputjamdiyah.
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I am not part of a new sect.
I am merely unravelling the faith i was born into.
“The only religion approved by GOD is “Submission.” Ironically, those who have received the scripture are the ones who dispute this fact, despite the knowledge they have received, due to jealousy. For such rejecters of GOD’s revelations, GOD is most strict in reckoning.” (Quran 3:19)Are they seeking other than GOD’s religion, when everything in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly and unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned?” (Quran 3:83)
It is not a ‘religion’ that GOD has given us which is made up of strange components and rituals”¦But rather it is the PERFECT SYSTEM which He has been decreeing through all his prophets:
“He decreed for you the same SYSTEM decreed for Noah, and what we inspired to you, and what we decreed for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: “You shall uphold this one SYSTEM, and do not divide it.” (Quran 42:13)
You see: GOD is our Maker. He did not construct our minds, bodies, life, souls, the universe, gave us access to the spirit, etc. Just so we could stumble and be lost in this world.
We are on Earth with ‘free-choice’. We are free to choose whatever paths we desire”¦
We are free to come-up with as many systems as we like”¦
However, He is giving us a great mercy by telling us that His system is the PERFECT system:
“He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the system of truth, to make it EXPOSE all other systems, in spite of the idol worshipers.” (Quran 9:33)
It is only now that we understand what this ‘religion’ is, that we can understand how it will EXPOSE all other ‘religions’.
The perfect system of GOD, when put into use, will show the weaknesses and fallacies of all other systems invented by man”¦
The system of GOD is the only one that not only caters to the ‘physical’ needs of the human being, but it also recognizes his ‘spiritual’ part and addresses those needs as well.
The human that follows the system of GOD by ‘submitting’ to it, is not only a self-sufficient person, but is also a happy person with strong family ties, intellectual endeavors, philosophical views, community awareness, and, above all, a realist.
What else can we say?.
“Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission/Islam as the SYSTEM for you”¦” (Quran 5:3)
———————–
In today’s version of Islam, we hear that the religion has been built upon 5-Pillars which, if upheld, grant the person a very high chance of his/her succeeding in this worldly life and entering paradise…
The 5-Pillars are described as follows:
Witnessing there is no god but GOD, and that Mohammed is His messenger;
The daily Prayer/Salat – 5-times per day;
The obligatory charity (zakat) amounting to 2.5% per annum;
Fasting the month of Ramadhan;
Pilgrimage to Mecca at least once.
Although the above has now been taught to over 1-billion people worldwide as being ‘Islam’…What perhaps may become obvious to readers of this site is that GOD Has provided mankind with a SYSTEM (click for ‘What is Religion?’) and not a set of rituals…
The ‘true’ pillars of Islam
“Abraham was a nation, humble to GOD, a monotheist; he was not of those who set-up partners. Thankful to what provisions he was provided; He selected him, and guided him to a Straight Path. And We have given him good in this world, and in the hereafter he is one of the upright. Then We inspired you: ‘follow the creed of Abraham, monotheism; he was not from those who set-up partners.” (16:120-123)
Monotheism (the path of the One GOD) is directly related to the ‘Straight Path’:
“Say: ‘my Lord has guided me to a Straight Path, an upright religion, the creed of Abraham, monotheism; he was not from those who set-up partners’. ” (6:161)
The Straight Path
Here now is the LAW which all Submitters are to uphold and honor:
“Say: ‘come let me recite to you what your Lord Has forbade for you:
that you should not set-up anything with Him.
And be kind to your parents;
and do not kill your unborn children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them;
and do not come near evil, what is openly of it, or secretly;
and do not kill the soul which GOD Has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend’.
‘And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reached his maturity;
and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except by what it can bear.
And if you speak then be just even if against a relative;
and with pledges made to GOD you shall observe. This He Has enjoined you that you may remember’.
And this is *My path, a Straight One, so you shall follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous.” (6:151-153)
the main message in the koran has always been consistent. believe in the One God and do good and righteous deeds. That is all.
Those who follow the guide in the koran will be considered righteous. those who transgressed are considered wicked.
No rituals are found written in the koran. if you still insist on worship rituals, you are merely wasting your time, or even worse, your rituals maybe considered as idol worship.
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Sputjam
2:221 And do not marry the pagan women until they believe. And do not marry the underage girls.
Every thing you clip a paste is irrelevant until you can provide a link to the above translation of verse 2:221
Your version of 2:221 does not make any sense, and “do not marry under age girls is totally out of context as the verse deals with the Prohibition of a Muslim Woman’s Marrying a Non-Muslim Man
It is haram for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim man, regardless of whether he of the People of the Book or not. We have already mentioned the saying of Allah Ta’ala, …And do not marry (your girls) to idolaters until they believe….(2:221)
Thus, while a Muslim man is permitted to marry a Christian or Jewish woman, a Muslim woman is not allowed to marry a Christian or Jewish man.
The person who wrote the false 2:221 verse is not the first nor will be the last brave warrior who will use the powerful message of the Quran Alone against tradition to justify esoteric and absurd claims.
In an over populated world any absurd idea will find some followers.
The author of the false verse is another dishonest and greedy creature, known as Muslim intellectual!
Simply, an enemy of human race!
Mohammad sleeps with captive women and allows his followers to rape them.
When current followers of Mohammad rape captive women, dishonest intellectuals decry, oh! these people have been misinformed they are not Muslims blah blah blah
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Arema says:
Shiva and all atheists out there,
I’m not trying to defend Islam or any religion, but just prompting you to think one more time.
After all your studies, you came into a conclusion that God does not exist. This is a sad conclusion but I can understand that. No one in this world can prove that God exists. Not even by showing how wonderful this world is, how magnificent is the universe, how complex is a human being, etc. Even if that is the creation of God, you don’t actually see God created them, and thus can’t prove anything. Even the so-called “miracles”, you call them “sheer luck” or “pure coincidence that won’t be repeated in 1000 years’ time”. Btw, not all miracles are from God, but that’s another story.
But on the other hand, you also can’t prove that God does not exist. Simply by not witnessing God does not mean He’s not there. I read your “theory” posted earlier, saying that if we don’t see God / sign from God means either He does not exist, He does not want to be seen / give the signal, or He cannot do that. I believe it’s the second answer (He don’t want to). He is the sovereign God, not you, not me, so by default we can’t order Him around. And trust me, you DON’T want to see God. If He shows up, it will be our worst fear ever… unimaginable… worse than facing a 100-meter tall Godzilla barehanded, because you should not fear those that can only kill your body… fear those who can kill your soul! So in this area, I guess theists and atheists are “evenly matched” as both can’t prove anything.
I am also aware of the massive amount of hypocrisy you witnessed by all those who called themselves “the follower of God” from any religion. You became disgusted, and so do I. You must think “why on earth these “holy people” commit such despicable acts while those who had no religion are much better persons?” I also thought like that, and I am ashamed, for I am no better or even worse than my atheist friends. But you must also have noticed that most of the time, it is the people who abuse the religion or position or situation they are in, to commit such despicable acts. In Christianity for example, there is no teaching encouraging the disgusting “crimes” committed by the Catholic priest(s) you wrote on your article. The people are the culprit most of the time, and not the teachings. I’m with you regarding Islam though…
It is true that if you want peace, order, and prosperity in this world, you don’t need religion. Religion is unnecessary to achieve such things. We only need RULES. Yes… enforceable rules that people will follow, a rule that does not discriminate, a rule that is fair / objective for everyone, and most importantly a rule that benefit everyone. If each individual respect and help each other, this world will be a much better place. Religion will encourage people to do this willingly, rather than “forced by” the rules / peers, but the end result is more or less the same. So, religion may or may not have a role in achieving the so-called “ideal world”. I agree on this. You must be smiling now, then ask “good, then what is good about religion?”
Let me share you my personal experience first. Long time ago, my maid was possessed by a devil. A female with soft voice, she magically turned into an unconscious girl with a heavy male voice demanding stuffs we don’t understand. We invited a priest to so-called “exorcise” the devil by the name of Jesus, our Lord. The devil was shaken and finally left the girl. When my maid woke up, she does not remember a single thing, although she’s been unconscious for 3 full days. I witness this from start to end, and it was an eye-opener. It taught me that the spiritual world DOES exist. Whether you want to believe me or not, it’s up to you. I thank God for giving me privilege to see such thing, because most people may never witness something like this in their whole life.
The unseen spiritual world is something that science can’t explain, and I doubt it will ever able to explain this. Something that can’t be seen does not mean it does not exist. It prompted me to think whether God exists or not. I think He does exist, because I feel His presence and guidance in my life. Well, you can also say that I’m too easily attributing something “so normal” to God”¦ well, I can’t argue with that. Each person thinks differently and great things to me may be a normal thing to you.
Each person should have thought about God / the existence of the creator at least once in their lifetime. That’s why most civilizations have one form of deity or another to worship. I bet your heart too still wondering every now and then whether God exist or not, but you keep on suppressing that feeling. Remember that denying the existence of something does not make that thing cease to exist.
Religion is not really about how to behave in this world. The essence is how to appreciate your Creator by living in this world according to His will and purpose of creating you (and one of them is of course to love your neighbors, but this is a consequence and not the essence). Religion is about relationship with God, and how to prepare yourself for the judgment day, where God will hold you responsible for how you spend your life, and is that in line with His purpose of creating you. We prepare ourselves for the next life by doing our best in this life for Him, according to His will, not ours, because He is our Creator. I personally think this is the essence of having a religion.
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Arema, Islam means Peace. It is submission to Allah’s will. Tell me if your Bible says it is written by God, or any other holy scriptures for that matter. If it is not, then you should come to the fold of Islam. Imagine if the whole world submit to Allah’s will and we all bow toward Mecca, we will have technological and scientific advances. No more tsunami or earthquake for disbelievers and non-believers. Infact, Islam and Christianity have so much in common. Prophet Isa did not die on the cross, the true story was revealed in the quran. Allah saved him. Allah is oft-forgiving, oft-merciful, all-knowing.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says
a lot of bullsh*t.
Islam means Peace.
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Arema.
And all Monotheists and Arab Wanna-be’s.
Lack of evidence against God/Allah isn’t a reason to believe there is a God/Allah.
Lack of evidence for a God/Allah is a reason not to believe there is a God/Allah.
Do you see the difference?
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Julita says:
Arema: I’ve read your two long stories about “Christians” converted to Muslim. Well, let me say something about that:
Firstly, I can tell you now that both of them are actually Catholics, who had a weak foundation on Christianity from the start (I know I’m making enemies here, Julita will strike soon, but it has to be said)
Jlta: Thanks for your posting , it gives me the chance to share my Faith and the truth with others
I just return from my vacation so I did not/have not the chance to read the above postings but I won’t sweat to look for it. I graciously accept that it could definitely be true. It is no wonder to us all that with God’s given free will, people do change in anything, and yes, even religion. No, I am not at all surprised and do not bother me a bit. I have also something to share with you that we have many pastors, people from other denominations returning to the true Faith. They are far, far stronger. Precious members, many who have studied the bible from cover to cover and see the TRUTH, welcome home to all, among them: For those who want to know more about this, click on EWTN “Journey Home” I think it is at least once a week when they have talks among the many returning faithful, the following is a real bonus.
Dr. Scott Hahn, formerly a Presbyterian minister, is a world known Catholic Apologist and Director of the Institute of Applied Biblical Studies at Franciscan University of Steubenville, Ohio.
Scott Hahn wrote some very good books do read if you have a chance and are interested in religion: “Journey’s Home” “Rome Sweet Home’ ‘The Healing Power of Confession”:
Jlta: “It has to be said” definitely but make sure you understand what you are talking about and it’s correctness, is important. For instance, if I lie on this blog, even to defend my own Faith, you know the consequences; I won’t be in God’s favor.
Arema: One of the main disagreements between Protestants and Catholics is that Catholics believe that all religions are actually pointing to the same God and therefore should just respect each other and live in peace.
Jlta: Respect, love and live in peace, with each other is correct.
As about the main difference, without much ado, anybody would immediately say that the Catholic Church has a leader, the Holy Father in Rome. Jesus Christ Himself started/built the Catholic Church. Jesus is the Head of the church, starting with Peter, the Holy Father; Pope Benedict XVI is His vicar on earth that is to everyone the main different. TWO HUNDRED SIXTY SIX Popes starting from St. Peter to the present Holy Father Pope Benedict XVIArema: Catholics believe that all religions are actually pointing to the same God
Jlta: Hm, you are trying to discuss the Catholic teaching. Sorry, the above is simply a big lie, so much of your ‘but have to be said’.
The following is the Catholic Creed, said at Mass and in many daily prayers. Note also we pray more than five times a day, it is anytime we can pray.
I believe in one God (not gods), the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, Our Lord, ect, etc”¦.”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church (no other Christian churches included) the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. AmenAgain Jesus is the One who established the Catholic Church. The book ‘Proud to be a Catholic’ stated that the Catholic Church has all what other world religions have in total and much, much more. Catholics are given gifts to help them in this worldly journey. All the sacraments, commandments to follow. One excellent, holy, intelligent leader the Holy Father. Hundreds and hundreds of messages, physical, spiritual and emotional healing from our Heavenly Mother who as a real mother is looking after her children all over the world. Vatican strictly scrutinizes all before giving the O.K. Some of them are the world famous Fatima, Lourdes and Guadalupe. Millions and millions of people, all over the years come to the Catholic Church just by her intercession..
Arema: Protestants have no problem to respect others from different religions and live peacefully with them, but we ………………..
Jlta: To tell you the truth, I don’t know what the thousands of churches (Protestants) believe anymore. They cannot agree in their own discussion, doctrines, principles, they have no leader for all. Teaching depends very much on what the pastor in that location teaches or one of his or her own main office. The one well known I know is Billy Graham but head is the leader of his own group. No, I don’t even want to start discussing impossible.
Arema: Original Sin: Another wrong concept by the Catholics by saying that we all inherit the sin from Adam,
Jlta: Wrong we do not inherit the sin of Adam as you perceive it. Original sins in us is the state of soul in which we come into this world; namely without those graces and gifts which would have been our inheritance if Adam had not lost them.
The following are more explanation:
The original state of Adam and Eve was one of innocence and holiness, and they were blessed with great gifts. “With wisdom and knowledge He fill them”¦.His majestic glory their eyes beheld, his glorious voice their ears heard” (Sir.17, 6.11)
In Original sin: Adam and Eve lost their right to heaven, they forfeited God’s friendship and grace, they were exiled from paradise and they were doomed to suffering on earth.
“Cursed be the ground because of you”¦In the sweat of your brow you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, since out of it you were taken; for dust you are and unto dust you shall return? (Gen. 3,7.19)
Thus Adam’s descendents are deprived of those blessings and gifts of soul and body which they would otherwise have inherited. Therefore as through one man sin entered into the world and through sin death, and thus death has passed unto all men because all have sinned”(Rom. 5, 12)
Dr. Scott Hahn: Original sin not as a stain, but an absence of supernatural grace. Through Baptism comes this gift of grace.
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Ihaknt says:
Aluang is a two face. If you notice, his previous posts were in some ways exploiting the bad and ugly in Islam. And now all of a sudden he is all 100% pro-Islam. He is either a two face or just being sarcastic or just a wuss with no self-esteem or a sheep who just follows the crowd.
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God says that religion is irrelevant.
Do good works and be righteous for you will be judged by your deeds alone.
This message that was transmitted to Mohamed, was the same that was given to Jesus and Moses.
Many beleive in God, but observe idol worship, without comprehending what they are doing.
Some provide food for dieties.
Some worship a man called Jesus and built churches.
Some built statues and worship in front of images of a man
And many prey towards a stone in mecca five times daily and do rituals around this stone once in their life time.
All these acts are a waste of time and betray God’s Commandments.
God is omnipresent, omniscient. He is aware of what you are doing physically, mentally and He is everywhere.
You do not have to go to mosque, churches or temples to communicate to Him.
All you have to do is “call”, wherever you are, in any direction you are facing, 24/7.
He is aware of what you do, and knows how you feel.2:107 Do you not know that – in reality – God, to Him belongs the supreme power in the skies and the earth? There is none for you besides God as of a protector or helper
2:112 Yes indeed – whoever is at peace, his focus is for God – they are most excellent. Surely for them the rewards by their Lord and there shall be no fear over them – and they will not grieve.
2:115 And to God belongs the East and the West – therefore wherever you are – God is right in front of you. Definitely God is omnipresent – all-knowing.
To matters raise by Shiva concerning marriage to pagans, present day Muslims are pagans. So guys like me will definitely avoid getting married to orthodox Arab religionist. ditto Christians and Jews.
But I can marry anyone who does not have any religion, but believes in God and do good works.
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Dimp says:
God says that religion is irrelevant.
Do good works and be righteous for you will be judged by your deeds alone.Totally agreed, who cares who you are, it’s what you do that matters.
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Sputjam Says:
To matters raise by Shiva concerning marriage to pagans, present day Muslims are pagans.
I have not raised matters concerning marriage to pagans.
The matter I have raised is that you have quoted a corrupted verse from the koran.
Now why doesn’t Sputjam give the link to the verse, could he be hiding something
Yes that is it, he is hiding something.
So Sputjam klipped and pasted the verse from the this link.
Sputjam only changed the descriptive heading above the verse.
“Idol worshipping men and women are the hosts in the Fire”
To
“The Koran have a specific passage concerning minors being married as follows”.
See the difference.
Denial of abrogation is very dangerous.
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Dear Mbak Ihaknt, re your unislamic comment. See link and repent. How is it possible that Allah inscription can appear on this jihadi baby? Last week I went to a nudie bar and after a couple round of rum, I see Allah inscription curved down and around a hooter’s 2 bosoms and armpit. This has re-inforced my belief in the One True God. I can tell you Shiva’s blood is halal. http://www.miraclesofislam.com/babyear.shtml
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Sputjam said
But I can marry anyone who does not have any religion, but believes in God and do good works.
If we just do good deeds and skip the belief in a personal God which is only based on ancient speculations or someone’s so-called ‘prophesies’, wouldn’t life be wonderful? Then we all could sit together in peace and try to find out what the universe and life is all about. And with the help of science we, or the next generations, may even find the answers.
Why do monotheists believe there has to be a Creator? What if the Universe simply was and always will be there – possibly in different states or configurations – and what we consider being God or godly is part of the evolutionary process? Who knows in a distant future mankind or his evolutionary successors will fit the ontological description of God.I can already hear some Muslims prancing.
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Ihaknt,
He is either a two face or just being sarcastic or just a wuss with no self-esteem or a sheep who just follows the crowd.
Cukurungan:
Did you forget Mas Aluang is one of my sheep that undergone re-education by me (Super Guru)
Aluang,
This has re-inforced my belief in the One True God. I can tell you Shiva’s blood is halal.
Cukurungan:
Completely wrong because Shiva poses no danger to our existence, His masturbation and crying aren’t a criminal action and please don’t even touch him but Sputjamadiyah is the real threat to our existence because his Denial of abrogation is very dangerous.
dewaratugedeanom Says:
Why do monotheists believe there has to be a Creator? What if the Universe simply was and always will be there – possibly in different states or configurations – and what we consider being God or godly is part of the evolutionary process?
Cukurungan :
I have to admitt that your theory is the most brilliant one I have ever heard until today even bit better than Stephen Hawking theory.
Car is the results of self evolution iron, Pisang goreng is the results of self evolution of banana and sosis is self evolution of a cow.
Comment on “Heretic Outreach”.
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Male on male rape is common in Islam.
RAPIST GANG LEADER GIVEN SIX YEARS’ JAIL FOR ATTACK ON BOY
BY SARAH NORTH
21-year-old man has been jailed for six years for instigating a sex attack that left a schoolboy humiliated and afraid to go out alone.
The 15-year-old was attacked by a group of men on secluded land off Burton Road, Derby, on June 10, last year.
Full Story.
And we have.
Lawyers in Pakistan are investigating a report that up to 30 men tortured and gang-raped a young Christian man for refusing to convert to Islam.
The victim is seriously injured and unable to move, Release International’s partner in Pakistan has reported. However, according to the Centre for Legal Aid Assistance and Settlement (CLAAS) the police are keeping him locked up and have denied him medical treatment.
Full Story.