545 Comments on “Open Thread”
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diego says:
Seriously Lair? Bali is _that_ bad?
I do wonder though, Bali’s (or balineses’) fixation to tourism. With all the money and international connectivity all these years, and they still depend heavily on tourism business? Something is wrong apparently.
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I dunno about the Balinese culture being that bad (let’s skip Kuta as that’s about much Bali as the Alexis hotel in Jakarta).
From what I understand, the smiling Wayan hides a pretty aggressive, noble and at times down right vicious culture …over to you Timdog..
Having said that, I am still looking for the final place to plant roots but Bali, Lombok would be the last place, overpriced, filthy beaches, rabies and isle of the scams. Been looking for awhile and have to admit one of the villages near Surabaya is still top of the pops although beaches still suck. Bandung was great until the toll road went through and the last wali Kota completed the ruination of a fine city.
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Lairedion says:
Personal opinions, diego. I always found Balinese culture not that impressive, a tad artificial.
Back in 1994 the efforts of trying to sell yo-yo’s perhaps still superseded the selling of cewe.
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well…. i still love living in bandung, true, big parts of the city lie in ruins, the traffic jams are beyond crazy even on normal weekdays now, the weekends and holidays are horrible with all those jakartans and their big suv’s coming here, but up here in lembang life is still good although we’re now dealing with an epidemic of restaurant building here and well…. more wealthy jakartans building their crappy palaces all over the place….
here’s my daily view:)
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ET says:
madrotter
and another book, just started, a house in bali by colin mcphee, quiet different from how bali is these days:)
This is actually the book, together with an ancient National Geographic Magazine from the 1920ies, that got the ball rolling and had made me decide to go and live here. He, McPhee, would certainly turn over in his grave if he would see what has become of it now. Others like Covarrubias, who’s book ‘Island of Bali’ helped to put it on the map in the 30ies, already warned that in the end the trappings of tourism would destroy this place and its unique culture. I admit that at the beginning I – just like those writers I mentioned and many others – was mesmerized and almost in love with it and that I also became acquainted here with some of the nicest people I’ve ever met, but seeing it going down more and more like this breaks my heart. What at the beginning I considered only minor annoyances are now becoming a real burden. Luckily for me I didn’t fall in the trap to “buy” property but I’ve seen others being sucked dry and completely ruined.
Time for me to look for new horizons.
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How long you guys been in your respective locales if I may ask guys?
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Oigal
How long you guys been in your respective locales if I may ask guys?
I’ve been here since 2000.
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I’ve been in Bandung since 1996 and like ET i’m also broken hearted when it comes to the place i call home, when I first came here (in 1991) it was such a lovely city, almost no traffic at all, green, just lovely….
And speaking about Bandung, that so called travelers bible the Lying Planet, their new edition, when they get to Bandung and the section about hotels what they say is, when in Bandung it’s better you spend more money on hotels because all the backpacker places are run down and located in a very dark (by which they mean dangerous I guess) area and that’s just not true, the family of my wife runs the Lossmen By Moritz, they renovated the place and it’s better than ever, there’s also still the Arenbee and a lot of other places, the area is not dark, it’s full of life, many restaurants, shops and of course there’s the light district Saritem. I wrote them an email telling them that it’s pure nonsense what they’re writing, that they are hurting quiet a few people with that garbage. Got back a short answer they said they didn’t mean to hurt anybody or their businesses but that they allow their writer the freedom to write how they see it. This writer was in the Moritz, stayed there, was very positive, leaving with the words “that will be another positive review!!!” and than he writes crap like that,recommending overpriced hotels that you wouldn’t wanna stay in, hotels that are always full with noisy weekend-Jakartans, the first one he mentions is in Cihampelas (Jeansstreet) for Christ-sake, who would want to stay in that street???
I just had to say this!!!!
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My few experiences with “lying planet” indicated that your establishment would only get a mention or a positive review if their was something in it for them. Publications in bali such as “the beat” expect a monthly retainer if you want your restaurant to appear in their restaurant guide.
Just the way they operate. -
well they always used to mention all the backpacker places in bandung as they do with every other city, they advertise themselves as a guide for backpackers right?
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My backpacking days are long gone. I thought the backpackers guide was called the “rough gudes” or something like that. The travel book I did enjoy was by carl parks but it was written some 25 years ago. Still have the original somewhere.
To be specific when I owned a cafe I was approached by one the LP writing staff. The offer was explicit…get a favorable review in return for free food. Personally I don’t see much value in a publication that operates on that level. Ditto for publications such as the beat which hold themselves out as an entertainment guide but are in fact merely another form of marketing.
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same with me, i backpacked my way to bandung 15 years ago and never left:) haven’t gone backpacking since….
that’s a pretty disgusting story, blackmail is what it is, but i can tell you, LP is now the biggest travel guide around i would say that nearly all (backpacking) tourists carry that book with them, so when they write in a negative way about your business it will really hurt you, so for them writing that the backpackers area in bandung is rundown, dark and dangerous (which, again, is just not true),advising to avoid it, it will really hurt a lot of people in that area, times have been tough enough in the last years there, things were finally picking up so it’s been quiet devastating for a lot of the folks there and it makes me wonder what type of writers they are using these days…..
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Travel guides like LP have too much power for which they are not accountable. Also because of their influence the places they indicate as worth seeing soon become tourist traps and get infested with touts, hawkers and all kinds of lowlife. My personal experience is that it is better to avoid the obyek wisata they mention and, instead of running the gauntlet, do my own explorations. This way I have been able to discover real gems which I only share with those who are close to me and of who I’m sure they won’t go trumpet about. I’ve seen too many pearls cast before the swine only to get ruined by greed and commercialism.
Because they are free from commercial motives and rely mostly on personal experience, blogs and forums like IM are a much better authority for dependable information than mass publications à la LP. -
Wonder where are our mate “Nobody” has gone.. Just wondering on the whole big happy family thing, living the life of justice and joy under Sharia Law was going?
Seems it will be a pretty long bow to draw after the goings on in the Middle East and the savagery in Saudi.
Oh and can one please tell me when the “freedom riders” from Indonesia will be boarding the boat to Syria, seems their need is a bit more pressing than Palestine at the moment.
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nobody says:
I suppose by savagery you meant the death sentence for Indonesian in SA?
Here are some facts:
There are about 22 more Indonesian facing death penalty in SA.
There are 20 in China.
and… wait for this..
There are 180 in our friendly neighbour Malaysia.
They are all serious cases that must be seriously tackled to save those lifes.But of course, some people will never miss the opportunity to disparage religion and focus on only and blow up the SA cases.
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I suppose by savagery you meant the death sentence for Indonesian in SA?
You have another word for it?
Tell me, how do you blow up a bestial act such as beheading and not even allowing advising family members time to say goodbye? Mind you to be fair, the Indonesian government is far more culpable than SA, no one expects much from SA.
Perhaps it would have been unfair to bring up the school girls who burnt to death in SA because they were prevented from evacuating uncovered, so I didn’t.
There are 180 in our friendly neighbour Malaysia.
Really, don’t need to add much to that then..
As for China, actually have mention them several times before, in the head long rush to protest and demonise the West and in particular the USA in SE Asia, some can only hope they don’t get what they wish for. China isn’t quite so willing to compromise.
I am surprised you turned up though, could have sworn you would be on a boat to Syria.
Point still remains, some heavy lifting to be done in the region and once again barely a peep out of the so called Umma outside of those crying from help.
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The Umma is just fine, thank you Oigal. Never been this good.
We actually had no less than 4 (four) secular dictators toppled recently, with some thanks to USA and France: Iraq, Egypt, Tunisia, and Yemen. Other dictators fill eventually fall in due course.Now, if we look at Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey, the 3 most democratic and economically advanced Muslim nations (Indonesia and Turkey is in G20) , we can see that given with a free vote, a really democratic Muslim country will never turn its face from the religion, and will not turn into a dictatorship. So rest assured that similar governments will take form in the aforementioned 4 (and more to come) countries. May be, if for example Turkey finally got tired of being rebuffed by EU, they will come to their senses and opt to revive their own old union of Muslim nations, and government in other Muslim nations will see the same merit.
Old Ottomans were not unlike EU: a multinational union where Istambul act like Brussels, where every nation were actually represented in the central government, not just Turks: Albanian were made governor of Egypt, for example. It was merit based governance. Some basic and fundamental laws and policies were made in Istambul, but other wise member nations/communities had big enough local autonomy to manage their own business. Everything was nice in the union until other super powers came and incite every sub-nation in the union to demand independence for silly, short sighted reasons.
If the ummah opt for a stronger union like that once again, what business have other nations to comment on it?
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That’s what we call having a dollar each way Nobody. Interesting view of history.
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we can see that given with a free vote, a really democratic Muslim country will never turn its face from the religion, and will not turn into a dictatorship.
Pleased to hear Nobody that you are advocating a free vote for SA and Iran for example, welcome on board. I agree and not before time, my apologies I must have missed your post earlier in the year rallying support for the protesters in Iran. I applaud your optimism and look forward to the first democratically elected President of Iran and SA (although I assume, she won’t be allowed to drive herself to the ceremony).
No sure how you reconcile a really free vote and democratic nation with the plan of being ruled by some central government somewhere else. Sounds much like colonialism to me. Why on earth would Indonesia for instance want to take any direction other than from her own elected leaders?
Or are you saying that Indonesia or Turkey should take the lead because as you say they are light years ahead of the Arab peninsula in combining Democracy and Religion? Wow I am impressed ,that would be better and certainly more defensible than the silly situation we have at the moment (it would nice to see Indonesian culture dispense with the more Arab adat at the expense of their own).
Also I think you are being a bit sneaky trying to sneak religion into what is happening in the Middle East, most analysis actually describes the secular make up of the push for democracy as what makes what is going on so unique. It is one of the reasons the numpties here still wearing the OBL tshirts prove just how far outside of history they are, just mere boils on the arse of progress.
That’s not to say, the extremists and outsiders won’t make a play in the medium term but the fact remains they will always be mere history side notes. In the meantime, we welcome you to the democratic fold and the quest for human rights and dignity. :-).
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Planning on going to Kalimantan today or this week, probably a good time to reschedule. It appears the tribes are going to war again. Pretty major shows of strength and ugly stuff occurring.
Essentially an external push for control of the regional cities, but when strangers show up with flags calling for blood then you know its going to be a bad day.
Of course, the real question is who is funding these no hoper outsiders as they flood the region?? Need two guesses??
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Hey Anyone else see the article in “The Economist” Indonesia got another caning as some poor 22 year old Christian Lass was kidnapped and abused for two weeks by well the inference was the usual suspects. I must have missed this one somehow. After its humiliation by the Saudi’s and the ongoing international perspective of Indonesia, I would suggest the image of Indonesia is a lot less positive than some would like to dream
I recall being taken to task by suggesting that Indonesia was well on the way to becoming a failed state. Seems to me that an ongoing inability (or lack of desire) to protect minorities from gangs of thugs, Politicians having no qualms about being seen and making nice with the reptiles coupled with the every disturbing news by Indonesia Forbes Magazine that Prabowo and Bakrie are the front runners as the next President.
Sadly, the pendulum is tilting to more likely than not. If you cannot protect your citizens at home or abroad then you have failed the most basic element of government.
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Were you too disappointed but not surprised with David Haye’s performance last night, given his overblown pre-match antics?
Quite fitting he wore an England football jersey into the ring….
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timdog says:
Though it has its low points, there are times when I offer prayers of thanks for the glory of Indonesian journalism; this is one of them: Seorang Pria Onani di Depan Umum
(headline-writer gets a slap on the back for that one, too).Now, I have always liked to see the term “onanism” in use – makes it sound darkly mysterious and vaguely pagan. But this – “pelaku melakukan onani sampai mengeluarkan cairan putih”? Now surely that’s Pulitzer material…
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Well that is why we do it isn’t it? As an aside, I gather we have gone off the cow love over that way now then?
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Well, since the ban on Australian cattle imports Balinese beef prices have rocketed, which has presumably resulted in a gross inflation of the egos of all those feminazi heifers to such an extent that they will no longer endure unsatisfactory sex with a human being. The subsequent upsuge in public onanism was inevitable…
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Brilliant stuff but what was ET thinking?….. 🙂
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I had to read that post from timdog several times, to connect the dots…: beef, balinese, ego, feminazi heifers, unsatisfactory sex, and public onanism.
wth?
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Sorry diego; I guess I was being a bit of a pretentious onanist by making in-jokes and references to other threads…
You need to read the linked article on the first post, then to remember the story from Bali a few years back in which a man was caught having sex with a cow, then to know that imports of live cattle from Australia to Indonesia were recently banned, and that prices of Balinese beef really have jumped as a consequence.
Then you need to have been following recent “discussion” (if I can call it that) on the “dating Indonesian girls” thread.
Finally, you need to accept that cows have egos, which provides a neat segue to the greatest joke of all time:A sausage and an egg are sizzling in a frying pan. The sausage says, “It’s bloody hot in here!” to which the egg replies with a startled shout: “F**k me sideways! A talking sausage!”
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Again not related to Indonesia but I just had to post this:
Missing Milly Dowler’s voicemail was hacked by News of the World
If you thought tabloids couldn’t sink any further there you go. not surprisingly News Of The World is owned by scumbag Rupert Murdoch….
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madrotter,
LOL, never understood those bules wanting to live there. Lazy people, bad food and the Balinese culture is a complete farce, only in place to please tourists.
Coincidentally, yesterday on Dutch TV there was this show on a local Dutch celeb designer who felt stressed out and on the brink of a collapse but luckily he found peace of mind and new energy at Tampak Siring. He was there with his wife of 60+ who sported an impressive pair of silicon boobs (Soekarno would have liked that also viewing from above). It was laughable to watch.
Last time I’ve been to Bali (I mean leaving the airport) was in 1994. Back then it was already depressing. Reading comments here it has really turned into hell on earth. No way I will ever go back there.