73 Comments on “Bandung Protests: Ariel & Cloud 9”

1. ET says:

   February 17, 2011 at 9:21 am

   This is pretty much a reaction to no jobs, no hope and no future for the vast majority of Indonesians.

   I disagree. This is a typical western way of looking at it. If it’s about economic injustice then why do they take it out on those who walk in the same sandals? Here it’s all about SARA (Suku, Agama, Ras, Antargolongan). The (small-scale) pogroms that I witnessed in Bali had absolutely nothing to do with jobs, prospects or the lack of it, only with sectarian strife and a – for me unfathomable – habit of trance-like display of violence, not unlike what appeared in the Cikeusik video. In Bali this trance-violence has even become ritualised in the public self-stabbing of performers during the Calonarang play.

2. diego says:

   February 17, 2011 at 10:08 am

   ET,

   Question, this amok thing, do you really think self-stabbing in pengerebongan in Bali is a real thing? I mean, aren’t they trained (like circus / debug performers)?

3. timdog says:

   February 17, 2011 at 11:54 am

   that would make it OK or at least an attenuating circumstance

   ET, again that singular ability not to read the post before responding.
   When did I ever say anything about “OK” or even “attenuating”?

   And Lairedion, what is it exactly that you want people to do on this forum (given that it is a forum, and that it serves no purpose other than “discussion”)?
   Is it supposed to be like this: Poster A responds to whatever piece by saying “Islamist pigs! Wickedevilwicked! Country’s going to the dogs!” after which Posters B through Z are permitted only bleatingly to echo “I agree”, perhaps tossing in “Hang ’em, flog ’em!” for good measure, and should Poster T happens to say, given that this is a forum after all, “how about we examine the contexts and background, and maybe look at how this ties into previous outbursts of unrest” or something like that, he’s to be shouted down as some kind of naive apologist, or something?
   If that’s the case we might as well all log off now and read a book…

   Arie – I do get the point your attempting to make, but surely you must agree that over the course of the decades the level of unrest/violence is not constant? It peaks periodically – and though I’m personally convinced that it has been far, far worse than at present in the past, I do think we are seeing some kind of an upsurge at present.

   And then back to ET again, and actually discussing things….

   Here it’s all about SARA

   I agree, the manifestations almost always are. But what you need to consider is the wider circumstances in which the upsurges occur – 65, 98, and – possibly – the opening of the second decade of the 21st century.

   The amorphous “anger” that stretches from Sabang to Merauke is not typified by religious or tribal rage; it’s just not. It is typified, quite unmistakably, by financial frustration, often as not in the form of petty, bitter jealousy (I swear I’m getting more of the “Hey mister! Give me money!” shouts on the street these days, and I swear the tone of them is more aggressive than it used to be).

   why do they take it out on those who walk in the same sandals?

   And here’s where I disagree slightly with Oigal about the “rubbing of noses in it” etc. The rage is – simply for practicality’s sake – unlikely actually to be targeted at those behind the tinted windows, those inhabiting another world. The object is much more likely to be the guy in the kampung, not so different from you, who somehow had access to the uang muka for the down-payment on the latest piece-of-shit must-have motorbike, because his petty, minuscule “advantage” is palpable, comprehensible.
   And at least one of the reasons for the recent uptick in the nationwide frustrated anger is, I think, the orgiastic levels of banal inanity that Indonesian consumerism is currently striving for, fueled by the mind-numbingly idiotic credit industry.

   You’ve got low-level admin workers on 1 juta a month touting a US$400 phone, bought on a loan, and paying half their remaining income in monthly payments on a four-year credit package for some stupid ersatz piece of garbage that will be broken in 12 months’ time – doubtless featuring “trendy striping”, advertised on TV by Agnes Monica, and called a Honda Waria (or something like that 😉 )…

   The jealousy, the anger, the aggression thinks in terms of a few hundred thousand rupiah bills; not in terms of millionaire mansions and foreign holidays.
   And there’s where those rumours that Christians get money from their churches and that kind of thing come into play…

   Going back to Oigal’s point, then, and giving the conspiracy theorists at least the time of day, it’s by no means inconceivable that there might be those who would prefer the anger to stay directed in this petty fashion – and to stay away from the mansions and the shopping malls. And what more perfect outlet than Amadiyah – numerically of no significance at all; totally outside the loop of any kind of mainstream Indonesian “Muslim culture”, be it “santri” or “abangan”, and no loss to anyone on voting day…
   (please note – no hint whatsoever of “extenuation” in those comments).

4. Patrick says:

   February 17, 2011 at 12:24 pm

   Bandung “the Paris of Asia’ is just living up to the reputation of its namesake in Europe. Remember from history how those lovely romantic French men and woman stormed Bastille, killed indiscriminately in the streets and later for entertainment attended and cheered the beheadings that went on daily for many months and included most of the surviving royal family members. Let’s hope for Ariel’s sake that history does not repeat itself.

5. agan says:

   February 17, 2011 at 12:28 pm

   ^^And in the west having a stressful job or school can also lead to
   “going postal” the tern derives from series of incidents in which US postal workers run amok shot and killed fellow workers when shit hit the fan.
   The tern stuck to the dismay of US Postal Service because it doesn’t matter what line of work it is in, the names remain the same.
   People don’t “go clerical”, or “go educational” they “go postal”!
   Gelap mata.

6. Oigal says:

   February 17, 2011 at 1:58 pm

   Going back to Oigal’s point, then, and giving the conspiracy theorists at least the time of day

   To be fair, as a “White House Plant” (see the BO thread) I am predisposed towards conspiracy theories as it is a task requirement for the job.

   Although, I concur the mobs invariably turn on their own that is of course the nature of any mob (natures dumbest creation) in any country, witness the Bristol riots etc. However I do disagree that the ones behind tinted windows are safe, this local nutcase stuff is small potatoes to what is simmering and it would not take much of a charismatic leader to turn it.

7. realest says:

   February 17, 2011 at 7:24 pm

   Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps muslims love their God more than other theists and it has less to do with poverty or their ‘warped’ sense of culturally-induced morality?
   There was a case sometime back where malaysian muslims fought over the exclusivity of the word ‘Allah’ to denote their God limiting that use against Catholics and Christians. Malaysia has 3x the average income compared to Indonesians(at least according to wiki) and pretty much belong to same Malay gene pool.

8. madrotter says:

   February 17, 2011 at 8:45 pm

   beautifully said tim dog i wish i could write as well as you do:) been hearing the “mister banyak dollar ya?” more and more too lately…. i can see what you’re saying but i think things, if they will happen, will play out different in different areas, in places like jakarta it will be a big run on the malls and shops again, in smaller places i see it going down much in the way you describe. and i think oigal is right, seeing the stuff on tv, how lavish the elites are living only fuels that anger. most of the mansions will be protected by the army and they won’t be running away like the cops always do here, they’ll be shooting

9. ET says:

   February 21, 2011 at 9:33 am

   diego

   Question, this amok thing, do you really think self-stabbing in pengerebongan in Bali is a real thing? I mean, aren’t they trained (like circus / debug performers)?

   Of course it isn’t a real thing, that’s why I said ‘ritualised’. But you should place yourself among the spectators and see the commotion in the crowd and bland look in the eyes of some of them when the onying rush forward and start stabbing themselves, rolling on the ground in a frenzied stupor. The performance may be fake, but the reactions certainly aren’t. Instructive but frightening.

   I’m not talking here about the ‘tourist’ performances but about the real thing in the villages outside the ahem.. ‘civilized‘ circuits.

10. Lairedion says:

    February 21, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    timdog,

    I say A, you say B. I disagree and think you’re naive on Islamism. What’s your problem?

11. timdog says:

    February 21, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    My problem, Lairedion, is that in this instance as in others, any attempt to discuss a wider issue rather than bleating simply about the evils of Islamism receives a hostile response from you.

    Myself and other people here seem to be reporting some kind of wider air of anger and unrest in Indonesia that clearly stretches far beyond “Islamist” issues, that stretches, in fact, far beyond “Muslims”. It seems by no means “naive” to suppose that there might be some kind of link between this broad and amorphous anger and the apparent recent uptick in “religious violence”, and given that one may well be at least one of the contexts of the other, to discuss it seems a fairly obvious thing to do on an internet forum.

    To give you a parallel: to view the anti-Chinese violence of the Krismon period purely in terms of long-running anti-Chinese sentiments in Indonesia and to react almost aggressively to any attempt to examine it in its context of the wider chaos and frustrations of the time would be, well, perhaps you could call it “naive”.

    And at the same time somehow to suggest that someone who does make those wider assessments of the contexts and circumstances of the anti-Chinese violence was attempting to claim that anti-Chinese sentiments didn’t exist, weren’t a problem, and weren’t a pernicious and dangerous aspect of the Indonesian scene would be, well, once again Lairedion, I think it would be pretty bloody naive…
    (Same goes to you ET).

12. Lairedion says:

    February 22, 2011 at 4:11 am

    You can discuss that if you want timdog.

    In the meantime we have seen the following from authorities:

    – The new Kapolri endorsing the FPI.
    – A minister of religious affairs wanting to ban Ahmadiyah with full support from the MUI (a governmental organization).
    – The same MUI issuing fatwa’s against pluralism.
    – Plans to ban Ahmadiyah to uninhabited islands.
    – Local authorities severely limiting the rights of minorities (HKBP Bekasi, GKI Yasmin Bogor).
    – Implementations of many sharia bylaws in various regencies.

    Broad and amorphous anger among citizens?

13. Oigal says:

    February 22, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Well as someone who has been on the anti-Islam loon (and other mind altering cults such as the RCs) so often I have a season gold pass, I would suggest it you think current violence and anger is the sole province of Islam hard liners then you may be missing some very significant under currents.

    There is some serious sectarian anger bubbling in at least two major cities I know of, tinder dry and just waiting a spark. Let’s not forget the whole mid east thing was started by one nothing cop bitch slapping a nobody street vendor…

    Not that would ever happen in Indonesia, we all know the care and concern shown to the masses by the parasitic elite and the organs ( no pun intended) of state. Personally whilst repugant, ignorant cowards the FPI and their inbred supporters are dangerous they are nothing compared to the storm clouds on the horizon.