Visa on Arrival, Fiscal Tax
Jan 24th, 2007, in Travel, by PatungOn visas and fiscal tax.
Comments on these two interesting topics are split off from the Dating Indonesian Girls page to prevent it going wildly off-topic.
The nationals of many countries have, since 2004, been required to pay a small fee to obtain a tourist visa to enter Indonesia, called Visa On Arrival.
Meanwhile Indonesian citizens and foreigners employed in Indonesia are required to pay a fee of one million rupiah (about $110) each time they leave the country. The fee, called Fiscal Tax, is meant to be an advance payment on that person’s income tax for the next year. Technically citizens who have paid it can claim it back on their tax return, but this is rarely done as many claim that doing so invites the attention of tax auditors.
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February 16th 2007.
Vice President Jusuf Kalla announced that shortly tourist visas will have a duration of four months, in order to attract more foreign tourists. Visitors have complained that 30 days is far too short a time to take in the vast archipelago. antara
159 Comments on “Visa on Arrival, Fiscal Tax”
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timdog says:
PN – that’s as reasoned and decent as I’ve seen you in a long time (standard posturing final paragraph notwithstanding)…
Well done, little brown boy, well done…
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Purba Negoro says:
Andy,
is it truly illegal?What a cheek. Governments will do anything to get their greedy paws on whatever pennies they can, won’t they.
Timdog,
I can please the Master in this way?Strange world isn’t it- Exxon Cornflakes Coppers. Madness.
Reality is indeed surreal. -
Achmad Sudarsono says:
Purba,
Nice post on the pajak.
@ all — gotta admit, this is pretty funny…
Mamm-eh! Oh Lawdy Whitey dun told me I has a attitude. I so sorry Massa. Please don whip meh.
Where’s I get me some watty melons? -
PN…
On the fiskal. I was responding to your statement that it would be defeated in the DPR and would not be a reality. The method to the madness is certainly to “encourage” those without a NPWP to get one in order to take advantage of the removal of the fiskal charge.
The idea is that if people sign up for a NPWP then the “losses” sustained on the fiskal will be picked up in better tax collection (greater revenue)…this is a sort of what you lose on the merry-go-round you pick up on the swing philosophy of State revenue.
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ET says:
PN
The few pennies you give back are nothing to the trillions every Anglosphere nation stole.
Where’s your cafe activism outrage on that?1. It’s not about the pennies, it’s about the lies and the kesewenang-wenangan.
2. I”m not from the Anglosphere, so I fail to see the relevance.Pajak Fiskal is a huge contribution – if it is replaced or phased out- another would surely take its place.
About the pajak fiskal: a couple of years ago there was a report in the Bali Post that in some places (I forgot which ones cause I didn’t archive it) actually zero – I repeat ZERO – of the revenues went to the treasury but every rupiah disappeared into the pockets of the oh so diligent Indonesian pejabat.
So that it will be replaced you can bet your life on it.
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dragonwall says:
But I thought the Indonesian had announced the abolishing of fiscal! I suppose it is talk and nothing happened because the need to feed the greedy.
Fiscal had done the country more harm than good.
Another way to milk the cow.
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ET:
I cannot comment per anecdote- but I am certain there is a very real justification for your friend VISA issue- perhaps you are not open enough to realise fault on your or friend part.The airport official is actually very professional- and very strict regarding contraband.
What you consider as “lies” are merely a somewhat offensive epithet for a system you are either unwilling or unable to adapt, comprehend or cope with.Do not delude yourself a non-white in the Western world is treated equally to a white or a domicile.
So- as outsider wherever one may be, one simply must “suck it up”, “take it like a man” and develop thicker skin.Regarding your news.
You may not be aware that
Journalism in Indonesia is nowhere near as professional or unbiased as the West.
For example- my friend is a Golkar DPRI-DKI legislator- he routinely pays journalist Rp 100,000 each + travel and food money for coming to his office for favourable interview.
He can easily get ten journalist per session- usually he has to turn the smaller paper away because his office not so large.Their salary is low and their publisher is very much vested interest group.
Exactly like Rupert Murdoch.Now- Bali Post is owned by wealthy Chinese pushing their own agenda.
Bali Post and Jakarta Post are owned by the same group Kompas-Gramedia who own Bali Post, Batam Post, Indonesia Post, Indo Pos (Jakarta), Jakarta Post, Jawa Pos Daily News (Surabaya), Poskota, Tabloid Mahasiswa Boulevard, Tempo Interactive, Tribun Batam, Kaltim (Kalimantan Timur), Tribun Timur (South Sulawesi) and Waspada Daily (Medan North Sumatra)
and such ethnic Chinese masturbation material as “Millionaire” and “Prestige”, and “Indonesian Tattler”.They also own the very lowest drawer sensationalist tabloids- BangKit annd Skandal- these are the same that claimed Chinese were being killed for their livers to be eaten and vampires and pocong used by politicians.
This group has been banned for publishing several times for their libel.
This Chinese publisher is the worst offender bar none for slander and lies.Likely Tempo will be banned and sued again for its very serious scandalous factitious allegations. Although I am not particularly fond of Bakrie, as I know of his ways quite well though shared friends- it should be stressed Bakrie comments were not at all true and have cost millions- and this is comment from Forbes.
There are other ethnic Chinese owned media groups who seem to conduct business in a decent manner- but somehow these louse of Kompas group seem to think the law or even truth does not apply to them.
They think if they make allegation as sensational as possible- with typical infamous “unnamed source” or “serior official figure” it will be believed- not only that- if libel or damages sought by offended party- it add (apardocially) credence to their lies.
So always read such ethnic Chinese drivel with plenty of salt. They have a vested interest in defamation especially pandering to whitey.
Amusingly Kompas group also make toilet tissue under wholly owned subsidiary PT Graha Kerindo Utama- which they recycle from their news content.
Yes, the irony is that thick.
Better you follow Antara or learn Indonesian and read the two best ones: Republika and Suara Merdeka.
Both are excellent- their Indonesian language is very good (unlike almost all Chinese owned publications which have shocking quality Indonesian language- a function of hiring cheapest possible reporters- least possible outlay highest possible margins (Chinese business ethic)) routinely win award for investigative journalistic excellence and are often quite scathing of corruption. -
Oigal says:
The Indonesian government is to institute to a new regulation where all paying for Fiskal can get a Tax Return only IF they quote their individual private tax number.
Sounds fair enough to me (although I wonder where the facilitation fee will fit in?)
But the bulk of taxation for nay nation is company tax.
Forbes states that 80% of all US taxation revenue is derived from its top 100 companies.Possibly (and probably true) but misses the point, in the US and most other functioning nations, the citizens are required to pay at least some form of personal income tax (or least fill out an exemption). I can’t help but think that is why so few Indonesians seem not to demand a bare minimum standard from their government. The snide remark about someones tax dollars and police is the verything that demands standards..if people think they are paying for something then they demand standards…perhaps thats what is missing here..costs me nothing so why should I give a ….
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PN
I am certain there is a very real justification for your friend VISA issue
The only real issue is they (Imigrasi and probably many other members of official bodies like Polri) don’t want to admit and correct their mistakes because they are afraid of losing face, especially in front of a bule, the epitome of the detestable colonial overlord. Lies and even intimidation then become an easy way out. This is a sad and deplorable attitude because when it comes to asking for bribes or uang rokok they suddenly seem to become a lot less self-conscious.
But don’t worry, after living in Indonesia for many many years one sucks it up and lives with it. However this doesn’t mean that it may not be brought into the open. Information should be shared, that’s what blogs are for.Better you follow Antara or learn Indonesian and read the two best ones: Republika and Suara Merdeka.
FYI, i consider my Indonesian to be better than my English, because apart from this blog, my daily contacts are 99 % in bahasa, talking, writing and reading.
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Et,
you seem to be quite the detestable smugly (my new portmanteau- smug +ugly) superior colonial yourself.
Where are you from exactly anyway?
And is your woman a Chinese- because it would explain your ignorant defence of the unwanted colonial legacy agit prop.I took your anecdotes somewhat at face value- but now I see the naive error of doing so as you have no concept of Indonesia or our soceity at all.
Losing face is a Chinese and North East Asian concept- it does not correlate to Malaysian, Phillipino nor Indonesian culture.
Respect for authority here is a rule- not a quaint attitude to sneeringly mock over your glass of fair-trade African lesbian tribal village commune sourced Merlot with your fellow bleeding hearts friends.Cari muka is not “face” its’ implied extended noun is “muka” as in present a permukaan- veneer/facade.
We have no save face, hide face, buy face, increase face- they’re all Chinese concepts- which is rather telling of the sordid company you seem to keep.
Mian zi and lian are the Mandarin names for this.
Gengsi- argued by some to derive from guangxi or “peko-peko” what the Japanese called the Chinese keenly indulged aptitude for bowing and scraping.And telling a blustering idiot foreigner who has no knowledge whatsoever of the law or due procedure that they are not in the wrong is the height of insult- no matter the nation- but triply so if it’s a white- the unapologetic superiority complex ingrate.
Quite frankly- if you don’t like it here- go away.
Otherwise- stop your anonymous and uncorroborated slandering and libel or
provide full correct name and address, your witnesses and a sworn statement.
But that would open yourself to legal or fiscal investigation too, and likely such investigations are thorough enough to find many things amiss.Oigal,
amusing the snide “functioning”.
Actually we in the world who live on real money not credit are functioning- and the only places where your non-bankrupt and I imagine non Jewish (who’ve since fled to non indictable Israel) will be investing as we emerging markets will be the only growth markets for several years to come.I actually meant the police comment as a joke- not a snide remark- I am attempting to change for the new leaf.
The point I am making is the Westerner is wrong when they think that governments should are accountable to them- when the fact is they are accountable to their greatest source of revenue foremost.For example- why are Western newspapers filled with intentionally distracting trivia about external non-national issues?
Surely among say 20 million in Australia- there is enough local news to fill The Age- there are plenty of Jakarta only newspapers and the pop is about the same.
Answer- to distract the populace from real and pressing issues at home papers are keen to have swept under mat.I have often thought about your point however.
I feel the West has become to much of a welfare state society where the increasingly lazy masses believe the responsibility and indeed the unspoken expectation government sorted out life for them.Actually- having lived and experienced the Anglophone West I think Indonesia is a far healthier society…wait for it…don’t knee-jerk react yet… and opening can of the worms…
and bearing in ind we’re comparing chalk to cheese…
in that the individual is fully burdened with the responsibilities that should truly be theirs.Here- no unemployment benefit, no medical insurance except for the truly very poor (“Kartu Kesehatan Orang Miskin”.
You no work- you no eat. Simple. No wastage of government money on the fast-breeding multiparented career welfare lazy classes or the newly arrived economic refugee.I prefer to earn my money tax minimised here and spend MY money t as I see fit on whatever charitable issues I choose.
It struck me as grossly unfair in the UK and Austrlia- newly arrived idiots barely able to gabble some passable English flop off the canoo and get a pay check within months. And then in the UK houses for non British native? Polsih cleaning hotls- when plenty of willing but unemployed (unattractive legal salaries) British? Public money for being healthy and unemployed?
What’s the point of everyone being middling?
The West has gone mad! You’re subsidising the very element that is rotting your society from the very root tip.This is why precisely USA remains vibrant entrepreneurial society- more individual freedoms- less lazy socialist mentality- more take home money to spend in consumer economy- snowball effect- government earns trillions in company tax. And USA is greatest contributor to non gov/direct aid charity in G8.
Where’s the incentive to work or provide for oneself and family in the scarily increasingly European Commune (sic perjorative) West?
Why is an allegedly individualist society financially burdened with the responsibility of individuals- this seems to be a good working definition for a socialist nation- not a democracy.
Keep that up and you’ll end up almost as degenerate, apathetic and intellectually lax as most modern Dutch or worse yet the vegie people: Swedes. -
Quite frankly- if you don’t like it here- go away.
Quite frankly, I still like it here, notwithstanding some blabbering tribalistic braggarts and immigration officials who cannot count till 30.
So I might well stay for a while.
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Ok skipping the rants and it seems genetic inability to post without insulting various groups..
I feel the West has become to much of a welfare state society where the increasingly lazy masses believe the responsibility and indeed the unspoken expectation government sorted out life for them.
You won’t get much debate from me on that point..although again not relevent to the point I was making. With less than 4% of people paying income tax is it any wonder, there is no feeling of ownership or responsibility to the nations infrastructure and institutions.
Surely, if you can get credit for a motor cycle, or car then you can least be required to file for a tax number.
Here- no unemployment benefit, no medical insurance except for the truly very poor (”Kartu Kesehatan Orang Miskin”.
You no work- you no eat. Simple. No wastage of government money on the fast-breeding multiparented career welfare lazy classes or the newly arrived economic refugee.This is just plain silly.. don’t you mean the rich, the connected, the corrupt have access to all those things while the average guy in the street has none…The west has its fair share of parasites, but at least they are embarrassed about it when caught…
Whats the latest thiefs name..yukale..yusle doolse..I forget..has his own blog tho
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kanda says:
i saw on the YOUTUBE how can a man get VOA in cengkareng and ngurah rai..
in ngurah rai you just passing two counters.. payment and imigration.. but what i saw in the cengkareng you must passing 3 counters.. payment, VOA service counter and than imigration.. wonder what you do in VOA service counter? -
Et
then enjoy our nation you are most welcome here.
Perhaps your tribe can come up with a child-proof counting chart for our tribe.I suggest:
1 as in one nude Inul, 2 as in two Inul boobies.
3 as in number of seats Inul butt require, etcTrust me- it will sink in very rapidly.
Oigal-
actually no.
The majority- poor- do receive many subsidy- for basics- housing, food, school, transport, medical etc despite IMF demanding they be cut.
Even busway is subsidised- it is actually costing more money than it earns- it was designed to be cost neutral.
The buses of horror- mikrolets, Koantas and Metromini are all subsidised and government corporation.
Rail is subsidised for economy fare.
Gas- subsidised
Petrol- no. Very lucrative tax item.
Desiel- ?
Two Stroke Mixture- I think subsidy just now removed.
Electricity- partial subsidy.
Income tax exemptions exist for low middle and downwards wages- actually more generous inclusive of price parity to the WestSo income and appearance/lifestyle alone will prevent anyone being able to scam those.
Then consider much infrastructure is private- as in toll roads.
Mains water was trialled here via Thames- but there are major very expensive issues with not only technical engineering problem- imagine the maintenance for upkeep for geologically active pipes- but break even pricing remain beyond most incomes.Hospitalisation is subsidy for the poor.
Otherwise medication and consultation remains below cost of Western nation price parity inclusiveOne benefit of non socialised healh is this. My wife have some breast lump thankfully benign. In Indonesia- I can see oncolgist within one week, Singapore same (full fee).
Yet I know in Australia from consulting with oncologist there it require 3 months minimum wait to see specialist.
I ask why- I organise ahead of trip and am paying in ful? Nol everybody must obey the queue- I argue I cannot come back in 3 months- is inconveneient and costly. Luckily I manage to arrange 20 minute consult due to last min cancellation.In Singapore- even worse they have part contribution/aprt government insurance system.
Unless breast oncologist specifically authorise paperwork requesting breast imaging even by cheap ultrasound- government will not pay. At least 4 month wait.
Biopsy for peace of mind- government refuse
Only allowed $400 Sing Dol imaging per year from your own part payment health insurance.And thus Singapore has thriving health tourism iundustry_ I have met so many antionalities there- Russians, Americans, British, Australians and most are not what one consider welathy- but actually heavily burdened- but healthcare quicker in Singapore- and timely care is very important.
This is one of so many stories- and I try to make it short so not consume all the space- but summarily- in my opinion the user pay health system is far more efficient, hospitals much cleaner and fare more patient oriented.
In 1998 and prior- we had a major growth in middle-class targeted health insurance industry in Indonesia- now not. Probably in future again we will have.
There are also many outlays one cannot escape from- the bribery issue is generally to minimise- not avoid payment.
You probably already know this but we have annual car tax, luxury goods tax, consumptions taxations, annual license tax, employer tax, corporations tax, property tax, building and construction tax- and many indirect.The taxation regime in Indonesia is biased toward consumption.
This correlate with many nations outside socialist North Western Europe-
Many economist convincingly argue tax on income is disincentive for work and unfair as highest strata has means and motive to evade.Consumption tax is impossible to evade- and higher taxation very popular for politican to impose on luxury goods- including passenger vehicle, SUV, light truck (which some Range Rover etc can be classed), engine capacity greater than 1998 cc, imported goods above certain cost purchase price, etc.
Thus, I argue on closer inspection the wealthy of Indonesia- providing they purchase/consume within Indonesia (and not spend thousands in Singapore shopping spree) are in fact actually fairly paying their burden.
Personally- I truthfully pay my full burden- as not only I want my nation to succeed- but I can easily be brought in front of Corruption (KPK ) Commission to either testify or interrogation due to nature of my company. If every letter t not crossed- some nasty person will use this against us.
But the full taxation is very complex and beyond my very basic knowledge, we as public listed comany must be world best practice audited so use KPMG and not once in entire company life ever had a positive return.
If we have- KPMG has screwed up- this is the warning sign!
Couple times we must pay extra.I just heard from my friend- apparently KPK and CIA-FBI are now in partnership- no foreign bank aside from Singapore and Swiss is safe- so really is very very strict- although not for good motive- but for political motivation for hurting political competitors.
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Oigal, sorry just read your question. I don’t know the percentage is as small as 4% but looking at the Indonesians who actually, officially, legally work, I won’t be surprised.
Most multinational companies demand us to have NPWP though, so before I left Indonesia I was taxed progressively according to the rule.
But how do you tax “tukang parkir” or “kaki lima” food stall (where they steal electricity and God knows where they get water supply)?
People like me won’t have the capacity of cheating on tax report, we simply too stupid and don’t have resources to help us. But the riches, well, is another story.
Back to my question about whether expat workers in Indonesia don’t pay tax, I know this from British expats, actually. Some friends admit that they don’t get a rise (although lots of allowances) when transferred to Indonesia but they don’t mind since they could have 40% increase anyway since the UK government don’t cut their payment. Interesting to find out that this is not actually true, according to Oigal and Rob…
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fullmoonflower says:
@ Jeng Finally Woken
is it true that expats don’t pay tax at all in Indonesia?
No. It’s impossible. Their Income Tax art. 21 must be withdrawn from their salaries.
I know for some cases, at least my British friends don’t pay tax in their country AND in Indonesia.
Well, perhaps their company use “Gross-Up Calculation” Method to calculate their salary expense. They can find it when they got Form 1721-A1 from the company.
By this method, the employee will get netted take-home-pay, company will pay their tax to the Kas Negara, their “withdrawn tax income” will be recorded as Tax Allowance, and the allowance will be admitted as expense.Example :
Mr A, an expat, married with 2 kids, living in Indonesia for over 1 year. When he signed his contract, he noticed that he would get netted salary Rp. 100.000.000 per month.
On January, he gets form 1721-A1 from the company, for supporting his Tax Annual Report.
Because the company uses “Gross-Up Calculation” Method, so the calculation will be like this :
+/+ Salary (for 1 year) = Rp. 1.200.000.000
+/+ Tax Allowance = Rp. 571.563.450
=> Gross Income = Rp. 1.771.563.450
-/- Occupational Support = Rp. 1.296.000
-/- JHT by Jamsostek = Rp. 24.000.000
=> Netted Income = Rp. 1.746.267.450
-/- Non Taxable Income (Married with 2 kids) = Rp. 16.800.000
=> Taxable Income (Rounded) = Rp. 1.729.467.000
=> Tax Payable = (((Rp. 1.729.467.000-200.000.000)x35%)+36.250.000)
Rp. 571.563.450So, it means that actually Mr. A’s Gross Income is Rp. 1.771.563.450 per year, but as contract he will get Netted Take-Home-Pay Rp. 1.200.000.000 per year.
In bookeeping, the company will records this payment : Rp. 1.200.000.000 as Salary Expense, and Rp. 571.563.450 as Tax Allowance.Hope it’s clear enough… 🙂
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Mbak Fullmoonflower,
It sounds about right. What I know is, if their salary is Rp 100,000,000 per month, their take home pay would be 40% less if they live in their home country. When they live in Indonesia, they receive Rp 100,000,000, nett. -
Jeng Finally Woken,
I think it’s all about risk for the company. Every company has their own plan in taxation. So, giving tax allowance or not to the employees are depend on their tax planning. -
PN
Perhaps your tribe can come up with a child-proof counting chart for our tribe.
I suggest:
1 as in one nude Inul, 2 as in two Inul boobies.
3 as in number of seats Inul butt require, etc
Trust me- it will sink in very rapidly.Aha, now I understand why Indonesian immigration officers cannot count till 30. They think Inul’s butt is too big.
However they should know better being confronted daily with sheilas applying for a visa.
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fullmoonflower
Because the company uses “Gross-Up Calculation” Method, so the calculation will be like this :
+/+ Salary (for 1 year) = Rp. 1.200.000.000
+/+ Tax Allowance = Rp. 571.563.450
=> Gross Income = Rp. 1.771.563.450
-/- Occupational Support = Rp. 1.296.000
-/- JHT by Jamsostek = Rp. 24.000.000
=> Netted Income = Rp. 1.746.267.450
-/- Non Taxable Income (Married with 2 kids) = Rp. 16.800.000
=> Taxable Income (Rounded) = Rp. 1.729.467.000
=> Tax Payable = (((Rp. 1.729.467.000-200.000.000)x35%)+36.250.000)
Rp. 571.563.450Astagfirullah. I’m shocked and offended by the obscene vulgarity of your comment.
Repent
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Come on ET…. that’s the formula….
Everyone have to know how to calculate their tax…Why are you offended? 🙄
hmmmm.. is it because of “Married with 2 kids”?
*(whereas you want to hide your real marital status to me… :-P)
hahahaha 😆
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fullmoonflower
Why are you offended?
hmmmm.. is it because of “Married with 2 kids”?
No, no, no… But I am considering to convert and become a Muslim so I have to practise being offended by everything that lies beyond my horizon.
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But I am considering to convert and become a Muslim
😯
wow!!
nice to know that… 🙂*tapi apa hubungannya ya sama pajak? 🙄
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Pakmantri says:
*tapi apa hubungannya ya sama pajak?
Nothing ……………… or that’s what I’d like to know too if there is one. @#$%%^&*??!! (confused).
Peace.
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Lairedion says:
Pakmantri, kang,
Kapan mampir ke rumahku? So we can enjoy Sundanese food under the Mediterranean sun. You’re always welcome.
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Si akang geus balik deui euy, kumaha damang sedaya?
I’ve said hi in the other thread. Anyway, I am across the pond right now enduring the Arctic cold.
It would be a dream enjoying the Mediterranean sun and away from this dreaded snow.Tararengkyu for the invitation, back to you if you ever get tired of the sun and longing for the snow. 😀
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fullmoonflower
*tapi apa hubungannya ya sama pajak?
Pajak matters are difficult to an obscene degree and everything obscene is haram for a good muslim, I thought.
But you, a tax manager, could also marry me and make it become halal.
Capice? 😉
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Damang kang. Hatur nuhun.
I can enjoy snow if I want. The Sierra Nevada is nearby. Isn’t that amazing about southern Spain? Snowboarding in the mountains in the morning and swimming in the sea in the afternoon.
At this moment I’m in Holland, finalizing matters like selling my house etc.. I will move to Spain March 2009 and will stay there for 3-4 years to engage in an IT project. After that I’m planning to move to Manado for good but let’s see first what the situation looks like in 3-4 years.
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@ ET
hmmm…. haven’t think about marriage yet. I’m enjoying my life together with my daughter… 😀
but it will be more interesting for me to be your Tax Consultant than being your wife..
hehehe…
Comment on “Visa on Arrival, Fiscal Tax”.
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PN-I have a Greek friend in Melbourne (Australia) whose retired parents live 6 months in lovely Crete, 6 months in Melbourne and pay no tax either place.
Nice life for some!
Still illegal. I lived before in Indonesia and was still required to lodge a tax return in Australia as I have investment properties with an income. Of course living and working in Indonesia I was required to pay tax there too but it was simplified as the companies do it on the employess behalf. So this Greek guy is cooking the books somewhat.