Miserable People

Sep 11th, 2008, in News, by

UnhappyWhether westerners and expats in Indonesia are viewed as miserable and unfriendly people.

American teacher of English in Yogyakarta, Michelle Ahmad, tells that her Indonesian friends regard as her as being atypical for a foreigner in Indonesia – whereas most expats look grumpy and unfriendly much of the time, Michelle smiles a lot, her friends say.

On reflection however Michelle believes she isn’t much different from other expats, especially when on the street:

when I am alone and walking around town, I look at the ground, avoid eye contact, and rarely smile. I ignore hellos in English altogether or respond in Indonesian, seeing even simple greetings as subtle harassment because I am foreign, I am a bule.

Michelle avoids eye contact and speaking to strangers partly because she doesn’t want to invite amorous male attention, particularly when out alone at night.

However lately she has resolved to be less fretful about safety and more open to people, she says. michelleahmad.blogspot.com

Another blogger and foreign resident in Indonesia, this time male, Brandon, says he was accosted at the gym recently by an Indonesian woman who complained:

Why don’t you ever talk to anyone at the gym? You always wear headphones, so no one can talk to you. And when you workout you don’t smile.

Brandon says he is not very sociable at the gym because

  • he is there to work out not socialise
  • he doesn’t want to be seen as “hitting on” women

But to an Indonesian:

…we may come across as being unfriendly or perhaps even a bit stuck-up

He recommends that Indonesians just ignore the apparent unfriendliness of bules, and just approach them if they feel like it. javajive.com


93 Comments on “Miserable People”

  1. Michael Bryant says:

    Jeames…Here, here !! American bules are never satisfied with anything and are world reknown “bitchers”. It must be the result of the over feminization of American culture and men. Let the bules go back to New York where they will have to fight to get any attention from anyone !!

  2. janma says:

    One of the highlights of going to the gym in Indonesia is having something hot and female to look at while you’re working out. If you’re a guy of course!

    exactly the reason I work out at home…

  3. Rob says:

    Jeames…

    A most constructive comment!

    I think the flattery here is not with how hot Michelle is but rather the flattery is with your own self and the idea that your comment had anything worthwhile or constructive to add to the debate.

    Take a look around next time your in the gym (assuming you go) there are those who go to the gym for a perve and there are those that go for a work out. There are plenty of Indonesians working out, wearing headphones, and generally not wanting to be bothered with small talk and conversation with others.

    Is Brandon gay? Don’t know the fella other than through his website. This leads me to believe that he is not gay (check it out for yourself). Maybe Brandon has some respect for women and considers them to be much more than objects to practice corny pick up lines on. You perpetuate the stereotype to which Brandon refers, the one where a white bloke talking to an attractive Indonesian women is considered in a negative light in some circles.

    Jeames, it is not a question of balls! You seem to focus a lot on gays and balls in your post. Is this some kind of Freudian projection thing?

  4. Purba Negoro says:

    Rob,

    Maybe Brandon has some respect for women and considers them to be much more than objects to practice corny pick up lines on.

    Take the frilly pink undies off please- most unflattering. They may feel nice- but far too much rumput showing.

    That’s it, let them descend again- allow the blood to circulate- unless wifey has already attacked you with “arit” (sickle)

  5. janma says:

    Rob, I think PN just insulted your manhood….. you’re not just going to let him are you?

  6. Rob says:

    PN…

    A couple of points. Most of your comments are striking me as Freudian projections. You know the ones, they are the ones where you label others with the things that most reflect or resemble yourself.

    I do not own any pink undies and definitely no frills. Far too much rumput showing? A little presumptuous, don’t you think? How do you know that I am not one of those bule men that keep their lawns neat, tidy, and trimmed? There is something to be said for good grooming as there is for class! Your comments of late have been lacking in class.

    What has my wife got to do with whether or not Brandon is gay? More to the point what has gayness in the homosxual sense got to do with miserable people and specifically miserable bules? Jeames’ comments were a cheap shot from a person with not logical or rational argument.

    Your problem is not really with my wife or Brandon but rather with your inability to make and sustain an argument Without resorting to insults involving frilly knickers, bed-wetting, or a little onanism.

    On the insults front, I think this is because you have spent to much time polishing your knob and now it is so shiny that while you sit naked in front of your computer and continue on your merry little polishing way that you are blinded to the realities that surround you as the light reflects back into your eyes and causes no end of confusion to your thought processes (how did I do? on the insults that is).

    In terms of the arit! This was done when I was little. But it was a little less crude than in some places in the world where it is performed. Most people know it as circumcision. So, there is no need for the wife to re-perform the operation. It is nice to know that you understand that my wife could lop off half and that I would still have plenty to spare. You would still be the fella that is too embarrassed to stand at the urinal, you know the type, the fella that goes into the cubicle to stand and take a piss.

    With regards to letting them descend. At least when I do they are between my legs and not on my chin! (how’s that? have I learned anything with regards to the insult game?)

    Enjoy the rest of your Saturday PN.

  7. Rob says:

    Janma…

    How did I do?

  8. janma says:

    You did good rob…. the best bit was where you said “enjoy the rest of your Saturday”. I think we all know what you really meant…. 😉

  9. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Rob,

    Methinks you could do better.

    On the insults front, I think this is because you have spent to much time polishing your knob and now it is so shiny that while you sit naked in front of your computer and continue on your merry little polishing way that you are blinded to the realities that surround you as the light reflects back into your eyes and causes no end of confusion to your thought processes (how did I do? on the insults that is).

    Should be lifted to top the caption & edit.

  10. Jeames says:

    I agree; Americans; in particular, do seem to have a hard time adjusting to any country outside of their own. But then their government doesn’t exactly encourage the world to welcome its citizens with open arms. But they deserve some credit for at least making the effort to come here.

    Janma;

    One of the highlights of going to the gym in Indonesia is having something hot and female to look at while you’re working out. If you’re a guy of course!

    Exactly the reason I work out at home…

    You’re assuming that you are something worth looking at; like Michelle did. Are you a sight to behold on the treadmill? Could one balance a glass on your ass for example? I said something “hot”…others’ll be the judge of that honey!

    Rob;

    You keep on repeating your “Freudian projection” theory; twice no less. Well done! You’ve got a bit of an education that does put you one above the average bule in Indonesia. Perhaps in the category of a guy who at home was a salesman or something and when he comes out to Indonesia; he gets an article published in the Jakarta post, teaches English in some local university and proof reads the English of reports for an international company and low and behold; this guy is now an international journalist, university lecturer and business consultant no less!

    However; your silly schoolboy insults about peeing in toilets and “knobs” aside; this post is about why so many bule in Indonesia; particularly those that blog, appear to be so damn miserable, whiny and seem hate the country that they have chosen to live in.

  11. Rob says:

    Achmad…

    It seems that Jeames agrees but seems to think that my insults are schoolboy-ish at best and silly. I guess practice makes perfect. Besides it was directed at PN so I will be much more devastated if PN is not slightly impressed at my attempt.

    Jeames…

    Glad the projection theory worked for you. No not really any more education than the average bule. Nope, never been bothered to write for or seek to be published in the Jakarta Post. I do teach in a local university (several in fact and local being throughout Indonesia). Nope, I actually write the reports. Yes, I am a journalist, Nope, not a business consultant (although I could do that pretty well, if you’re hiring of course).

    I wonder if blogging, describing your experiences, some (perhaps many) of those experiences are negative, you hope that people read so that you can see whether there are similar experiences out there, are you really professing a hate for the country in which you live? Jeames you seem no different from most others (stereotyping you as you seem to work best in stereotypes) in that you think criticism or the relaying of a negative experience means that the poor old bule is hating living here. Most of the bules I know have had experiences that are negative, have written about them, but are happy to be here.

    Long term resident bules have strong local and family ties to Indonesia and in that sense are no different from Indonesian residents who criticize their own country for its failings and deficiencies.

    Perhaps a better thread would be examining why so many Indonesians pop up in this thread who are twisted and bitter about the bule that choose to live here, why Indonesians care so much that bules appear to be so damn miserable, and what they do for a crust?

    But I would not expect that to matter for you…

    Good luck on the bule bashing…may the force be with you!

  12. perseus says:

    I agree with Brandon. I go to the gym to work out not socialize. There are babes at the gym which I do notice but y’know – gym is gym – I go there to suffer not to get laid.

    Most of the time I am there I am with a trainer who I dare not lust after at all lest she penalize me severely for my hubris!

    My trainer is very cute and sweet but I don’t even think about it…

  13. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Perseus,

    Sorry to be a chauvinist, but very skeptical about how much women know about training guys. They’re usually into this high-rep bullsh*t for “toning”. Men have much more testosterone (except for Oigal), than women, even lesbians, so how much do they know about putting those hormones to good use ?

  14. perseus says:

    Well, I am happy with the results my two female trainers have given me this past 11 months. I have gone from blobby to beefy and dropped 3 sizes in jeans from 42 down to 36.

    I have told my current trainer that I want to look like Ahnuld by Christmas 🙂 so we are doing pretty heavy drop sets now.

    Doubt I will quite make it but I am happy enough with how I am travelling.

    Have been trying to reinvent her as a dominatrix but she is really too nice and sweet and I suspect just a bit too PC to embark on this path 🙂 but it makes for jovial gym banter.

  15. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Seksi Mr. Perseus,

    Congratulations !

    It sounds like you are on the way to becoming

    Very Seksi .

  16. janma says:

    You’re assuming that you are something worth looking at; like Michelle did. Are you a sight to behold on the treadmill? Could one balance a glass on your ass for example? I said something “hot”…others’ll be the judge of that honey!

    Jeames love…… sweetheart! I’m sure you are God’s gift to women blossom…. but since you are only one man and your (somewhat steroid induced) opinions are hardly representative of what all men find ‘hot’ in women, I don’t think I’ll worry too much about whether or not you think I’m hot on a treadmill…. The whole point sweetums, is that it’s a gym and women are not just merchandize for you to size up and check off on your holy hot chart.

  17. Ahmad says:

    Janma:
    Are you seriously trying to convince us that some or even most women do not go to the gym to check out “hot” men or at least try to size up who may be a good catch ? We both know that women are not above looking at men as merchandize. So, you can cease trying to be coy………..you’re not fooling anyone.

  18. janma says:

    So, you can cease trying to be coy………..you’re not fooling anyone.

    coy….. yep that’s me…l LOL!

  19. sita says:

    I’m an Indonesian, and I always did that. Avoid eye-contact when I’m alone thing. But I guess this is my home after all, so they don’t pay any attention. ;D

  20. I suppose it’s time for me to chime in on this one. It would have been appreciated if one of you had notified me of my involvement in either this post, the comments, or the subsequent slandering – I had no idea I was being falsely dragged into the ditches, and certainly don’t appreciate being mentioned in a post entitled, “Miserable People”. I believe those of you that know me, realize that I’ve spent a tremendous amount of my personal free time photographing the Indonesian people, culture, and landscapes – almost always striving to show things in a positive light.

    To those who have a burning desire to know “if Brandon is gay”. The clear cut answer is no. If you’re going to bring me into the conversation of this post, I’d appreciate if you had first checked out some of my own postings for some relevancy. I’m quite open on my blog about Novita: an Indonesian woman I’ve been with since 2002.

    I’d like to also comment on a few of these offerings:

    If you are miserable than go home.I think Indonesians and Indonesia are a wonderful country and people.Most foreigners are badly brought up with no manners and no asian values! Balik -lah!

    – Again, please don’t make assumptions based upon words taken out of context on my blog. Please read the post in its entirety, and then read through a few other posts to see if that’s a true representation of what I’m about.

    And Is Brandon gay? Most guys go the the gym to check out the chicks. Why doesn’t he doesn’t want to be seen as “hitting on” women. One of the highlights of going to the gym in Indonesia is having something hot and female to look at while you’re working out. If you’re a guy of course!

    Of course I appreciate the beauty of Asian women. However, as I explained in my post, there appear to be two type of people to visit the gym – those who are interested in a serious workout and those who are there to socialize. I’m in the first category. I socialize plenty outside of the gym. Why don’t I want to be seen as “hitting on women”? Perhaps because Novita is quite beautiful in my opinion, and I’ve been ‘taken’ for the past 6 years. I respect her and our relationship. I’m all business in the gym.


    Cheer up bule expats in Indonesia! Enjoy the gracious hospitality that you receive or go home…if you have the balls! It’s always there for you if Indonesia is so bad.

    I truly hope that wasn’t directed at me. There are plenty of others in the online expat circle that know me offline as well and wouldn’t support that claim. Save that kind of crap for the expats that may indeed be appropriately labeled as miserable or unappreciative. They’re out there, and I’m not one of them.

    Jeames…Here, here !! American bules are never satisfied with anything and are world reknown “bitchers”. It must be the result of the over feminization of American culture and men. Let the bules go back to New York where they will have to fight to get any attention from anyone !!

    Once again, I hope this wasn’t aimed at me. I am not one of the expats who constantly bitch about Indonesia. I’m more often found bitching about my own culture.

    I have nothing to hide; I display my full name on my blog, and am always up for meeting the Indonesians and expats who may wish to follow up any discussion face to face.

    Overall, I find this post and the comments disappointing. It’s quite obvious that despite having been writing a blog since 2002, and attempting to capture the better side of Indonesian culture, through my writing and photographs, that perhaps I’ve not been meeting the goals that I set out to accomplish.

    Best to all of you.

  21. Oigal says:

    Men have much more testosterone (except for Oigal),

    Aww Assmad even when I am away for awhile you still miss me..shucks..What’s wrong no challenges..

  22. timdog says:

    @Brandon – I don’t think I was one of those who made personal jibes at you, but in any case, I’m sorry that you felt so upset and offended.
    Perhaps you ought to look on the positive side: this thread has probably generated some more traffic for your blog anyway, and it has been an interesting – an by Indonesia Matters standards, relatively tame – discussion…
    In any case, i was aware of who you were, have seen your photography, in print and online, and had scanned your blog a few times. You certainly don’t strike me as a miserable person; rather more very earnest, very enthusiastic, the archytypal “right kind of American” in a foreign land (not an insult… honestly…)
    I like your photography too by the way, though some of it’s a little too “digital” for my liking – but that’s my problem not yours. I’m a luddite who was, incidentally, forced grumpily, grudging, purely for practicality’s sake, to “go digital” because of the fact that there are no labs that can handle colour transparencies well in Indonesia (and none at all outside Jakarta)… But I still think good slide photography pisses all over most digital any day… that’s a different matter though; don’t let it make you miserable 😉

  23. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Brandon,

    Hey, man. Cheer up, great photos, great blog. Don’t get all miserable on us. 🙂 Just kidding. Wouldn’t take it to heart.

    There’s a silent majority out there that doesn’t comment. You can’t take the comments of nutcases like me, PN, AAB, & especially Oigal to heart.

    Otherwise, dig the pics. 🙂

    Oigs, good to see you again.

    x o.

  24. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Halo Ibu Janma Yth !

    Halo Seksi Friends !

    Janma, just noticed this.

    yes, I learned sanskrit, but only for kicks really, I like to learn languages…. it’s pretty easy for me. Also I shared a house with a brahman couple from south india and learnt loads of interesting things from them…. they had no kids and I was only 17 or something, so they sort of adopted me….

    That’s interesting. What sense did you get about caste politics from them ? I mean, it’s a bit abhorrent to Australian values, or seems to be from the outside.

    Also, did you actually speak Sanskrit with them ? Can you read ancient temple inscriptions ? Buddhist texts ?

    Seksi Friends, we might have a Lara Croft here !

  25. Farah says:

    Hmmm….. sometimes if i don’t want to communicate with others, i will put my earphone on and don’t even listen music, just put it on my ears.

    Its not only expat doing this i think some of indonesia also have this attitude too….

    Same like smiling, or i think theres also some times i even don’t feel like i want to greet my expat boss with “selamat pagi” or “good morning” (bad mood “on”), just sit on my desk and do my job and completely ignore him. And he sometimes (maybe) wake up on the wrong side of the bed and just put straight face and didn’t say good morning to me too… its just… normal i think…………

    its every body right.. say hi.. being friendly, smile or not smile.. expat or locals.

    ofcourse world would be a better place if everybody smiling (like in thailand ???) when you step on someone foot they will still smiling at you (just happening to me..ehhh?)

  26. janma says:

    Achmad,
    no speaking of sanskrit I’m afraid…. it’s mainly used for scriptures and ceremonies…. hymns, mantra’s, that sort of thing…. the alphabet is basically the same as Hindi…. i can barely remember it now…. I haven’t clapped eyes on a sanskrit sentence for the past 20 years.
    About the caste system… it is political… tho I’m sure sloka knows far more about it… it’s a bit depressing sometimes, I remember once some low caste boy fell in love with a high caste girl, so they strung him up from a tree…. Rajiv had to come say sorry to the boys mother. I also remember in jaganatha puri, no low caste people are allowed into the temple… apa lagi a mlecha (dog eater…. a euphemism for whiteys…) like me…. it’s a huge and ancient temple with many doors and thousands of worshippers… once on a dark moon night when there was a festival on I decided to try and get inside…. I covered myself in boot polish, donned my sari, practiced walking like my feet were too heavy to lift and snuck in one of the dark unguarded doors….
    I made it to the top of the temple steps before I realized the futility…. the main door was guarded by 5 huge warok type guards with very big sticks, called lathi’s. I about faced and headed back for the steps to re-think. There were crowds and crowds of people and it was very dark… I sat on the steps for a while, my saree pulled close so tha no one could see me…. looking up to my side I Realized I had just sat down next to two guards on their break… they took one look at me and let out huge bellows, I of course scarpered, as quick as my suddenly light feet could take me… I did sustain one blow to the head for my trouble though.

    aah….. those were the days…. I was absolutely barking mad of course…. but we had fun.

  27. AchmadSudarsono says:

    Janma,

    GREAT story.

    Any chance of getting you put it down for Mr. Patoengs ?

    In terms of “making it relevant” to Indonesia, perhaps you could spin it in terms of current clash of religious identity, Balinese hindu identity.

    Maybe talking about your own story reflecting on Indonesia’s bigger story.

    I’m curious to know,

    * Looking back — why did you do it ? Youthful enthusiasm ? Adventurousness ? How’d you end up in India ?

    * Caste being political — that’s a pretty telling point. They present it as religiously-sanctioned. Are there any brahmins you know who don’t like it ?

    You should tell these stories. I think your fishing post for IM was a pretty piece of writing. Shame it didn’t get more comments, but people here seem to be more into controversy.

  28. timdog says:

    janma – fabulous stuff 🙂
    I’ve snuck into a few off-limits mosques by way of a scruffy beard and a silly hat, but you win hands down in the Victorian adventurer stakes…

  29. Purba Negoro says:

    Yes Rob.
    Not too bad.
    Being the product of a British education I find your constant cultural references to willies , knobs and knockers and other toilet humour incredibly amusing.

    Good effort- but have you taken off the frillies yet?

  30. Brett says:

    Overall, I find this post and the comments disappointing.

    Here, here Brandon! My advice: read the posts, avoid the comments. Inanity reigns supreme here.

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