Bad Impressions & Mumbai
Dec 2nd, 2008, in News, by Patung
The Mumbai terror attacks heighten resolve in Indonesia to fight terrorism, and dealing with wrong impressions about religion.
The head of the Islam section of the Department of Religion, Prof Dr Nasaruddin Umar, said recently, before the Mumbai terror attacks, that there was something wrong with the Muslim community these days, what with antara
- a great amount of fragmentation,
- the rise of hardline groups,
- increasing occurrence of terrorism
He put the problems down to the global capitalist system, which forced people to see things in rational, pragmatic, profit & loss terms, and then they lost the spiritual essence of religion, with only rituals remaining.
Khalifatul Muslimin
One such possible hardline group, Khalifatul Muslimin, recently had to defend itself against accusations that it was carrying out para-military training at Bumi Perkemahan, Ragunan, South Jakarta.
Panji Sudiro from Khalifatul Muslimin said the group was only holding martial arts training in preparation for cadets to advance to the next level, and that Khalifatul Muslimin, although it believed in Islamic leadership (khilafah), had no political goals and no connection to the Majelis Mujahidin Indonesia (MMI) (see Mujahidin Council Unwelcome).
The organisation was founded by Abdul Qodir Hasan Baraja in Lampung in 2004, and has around 5,000 members. tempo
Terrorism – Mumbai
Meanwhile, on the issue of terrorism, Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS) figure Mutammimul Ula said he was very concerned that the terrorist attacks in Bombay/Mumbai, India would have a negative effect on the image of Islam.
The people who are claiming responsibility call themselves “Deccan Mujahideen”, their name has an Islamic sound to it.
He worried that the public would develop the impression that Islam was synonymous with terrorism.
Mutammimul Ula
India had recently been the target of many extremist and separatist attacks, he said, and on behalf of the PKS he expressed condolences to the people there. kompas
The president of India, Pratibha Devisighn Patil, is in Indonesia and visited the parliament in Jakarta today, and met its chairman Hidayat Nur Wahid of PKS. Hidayat said to her: detik
We are united [India & Indonesia] in rejecting terrorism and working together to deal with it. The religions of the world do not teach violence, religion is actually a victim of terrorism.
72 Comments on “Bad Impressions & Mumbai”
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Alf Janszoon says:
I have a great “Financial” Scheme for Indonesia to use to help combat the economic crisis.
The jolly season of Hajj is here once again. It would help when many Indonesians did not sell their livelihoods in order to finance their trip to Makkah. Those ruthless Saudi’s have their coffers full to the brim with petrodollars. They do not need the money of mostly dirtpoor orang Indonesia. many of which will have no income when they com back.
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Cukurungan says:
Surely you jest. The Indians have the advantage of a priceless legacy; fluency in the English language and rule of law. This allows the average Indian access to jobs in this age. They sky is the limit.
The India Limit is not sky but their own people beside India fast growing economy, it only can give the middle class of around 100 million live affluently, while others 800 million-plus are still miserable and massive 440 million people languish at the bottom of the economic pyramid in India and they have to life with less than $1 a days and about 500,000 children are born deformed each year due to vitamin/mineral deficiencies
I suggest you should exchange your nationality to become a glorry of India while I am waiting here enjoy sinkong goreng and bandrek.
Kita? Bahasa Indonesia terus, korupsi dan pesantren. Until we accept the fact that reciting the Al Koran is not an economic advantage, we are not going to be plugged into the 21st Century.
Who are we? And no one is claiming that reciting Al Koran has an economic advantage but we recite the Koran to differentiate which sheep need to be breed and which goats need to be slaughtered.
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Odinius says:
Members of every major religion have murdered innocent people. Aetheists have murdered innocent people. Members of every major religion and aetheists have all been murdered while innocent for the supposed crime of adhering to a given faith, or not adhering to any.
This attack was perpetrated by Muslim extremists against innocent non-Muslims. The riots in Gujarat in 2002 were perpetrated by Hindu extremists against innocent non-Hindus. etc. etc. etc.
In every case, we who have morals and ethics must condemn the murderers and, when we can, shelter and aid the victims. No matter what religious faith–or lack–someone has, a crime is a crime and an innocent is an innocent.
Someone who judges the legitimacy of violence against civilians based on what “team” the actors belong to is part of the problem, no matter which way he prays or what books he deems holy (Dawkins included 😉 ).
The Mumbai attacks are sickening, despicable, and the perpetrators must be found and brought to justice.
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indian says:
I am an Indian born in India. I am not a Muslim. I would like to add my input into this discussion, if I may be allowed. I would like to say this
1. There was never a nation called India, but many nations within Indian subcontinent
2. There is no Indian race, but many cultures and races within India. The Aryans in the North, the Dravidians in the South, Middle eastern, Semetic, Central Asian, Greek and Turkish, Persian, and also Mongloid (similiar to Indonesians) living in the North eastern side of the Country.3. When the British came, they unified the entire kingdoms they conquered for administrative reasons, as one big dominon called British India.
4. When the time for the British to depart had come, they hastily departed without addressing the need for different ethnic groups to have their own respective nations, they left by just dividing the subcontinent on religious grounds as India and Pakistan (which itself was divided later as Bangladesh and Pakistan).
5. The mongoloid north east, predominantly Nagaland, Mizoram and other areas were originally never “Indian”. The population there is predominantly similiar to Ethnic Malay, and Chinese blooded Tribal groups, Predominantly being Christian and Animist, they were brutally oppressed by India for over 60 years.
6. Kashmir, where the people are predominantly central Asian blooded, being majority Muslims never had a say in which political dominion they wanted to be part of.
7. The Indian army moved in to these provinces, people were treated like animals, women raped, both in Kashmir, and in North eastern Christian provinces as well, where both Islamic and Christian insurgencies erupted for independence (Nagaland conflict, 200,000 killed )
8. Punjab, where the predominant Sikh religious groups live (Turbaned people), they also had a separatist war with Hindus
9. Maoist and other insurgency groups fighting against upper caste Hindus
10. Assam in north east, with several Mongloid tribes (Similiar to Indonesia), also waged war to separate
Total, there are more than 20 to 30 separatist and armed conflict raging within India.
The tamils (Dravidian in the south), also were against the langauge of Hindi, and several Hindi movies were banned)
Maharashtra( Marathi ethnic group of which Mumbai is the capital), recently saw several North Indians (hindi speakers), getting killed as they wanted them out of their provinces.
India in a nutshell, is a disturbed land. The Military is what keeps the country together as it is called (union of Indian states), contrary to what Most Indonesians think that India is a race and one country, it isn’t.
The root of this extremism and conflict is the brutal treatment of Muslims and Christians by Hindus , Rapes of their women in their provinces, unresolved political and ethnic issues, Racist treatment of the Mongoloid people (Indians abuse the chinese, and East asians as being small eyed etc), attacks on the people who visit other provinces of India.
The General Hindu culture which divides people into caste lines, superstitions, mistreatment of women, high incidences of rapes, killings, gang violence in the Nation all contributes to this violence you find there.
We don’t even know if Muslims are the ones who did this Mumbai attack, As recently several Hindu extremist groups were arrested for a series of attacks throughout the country which they blamed it on Muslims. even Army officers were arrested , some of them who had links to Hindu extremist groups.
3 of the Top policemen in Mumbai who were investigating these Hindu groups were gunned down within 1 hour of Mumbai siege (how strange, as if they were lured out and executed).
Who gets to benefit from all this ? Elections are nearing, and Hindu nationalists are winning sympathy. Their goal is to declare India as a theocratic Hindu state, to destroy pluralism, to destroy Muslims and Christians (Recently several hundred Christians were slaughtered in Orissa)
There is still no hard evidence, that this was done by Muslims, and Arab “culture” has nothing to do with this, Much of India’s conflicts are due to Hindus mistreatment of their minorities, and on linguistic and racial conflicts.
I would like to conclude by putting this video, this is what recently happened in the southern province of Tamil nadu, where the Tamil hindus, fought each other, upper caste hindus vs lower caste hindus at a LAW COLLEGE.
even Hindus are divided and fight each other, and the Police did nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAm72oikOsQ&feature=related
India’s conflicts has nothing to do with Arab culture or middle east. Try to understand the nation’s history, the nation’s different cultures, conflicts, injustices to figure local sentiments. Blaming all violence on Arab cultures or others, is just a sign of insecurity and the inability to come to terms, that one’s own house needs to be cleaned and several bad apples among our own people have to be plucked out as they were making the whole tree sick. Introspection is the need of the hour.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Stupid Indian, aren’t they related culturally and genetically? The Melayus are not Javanese, the Batak are not Javanese, the Minangs are not Javanese; but they are closely related to us than the Chinese or the Indians. Bules (especially the Brits and the Dutch) were here to divide, not unite us. They only unite those that are easily controlled.
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@Aluang: Of course there was no “Indonesia” before the Dutch East Indies, so it looks like they did unite you…or more accurately, your parents or grandparents and their peers, unless you were born before 1945. Of course, they united your parents or grandparents under Dutch authority, much like the British united Indian’s parents or grandparents under British authority.
@India: I know where you are coming from, but it’s a mistake to guess “who did it” based on “who benefits,” since those who benefit are often ones who take advantage of a given situation, rather than those who create it.
The evidence points squarely at LeT, just as the 2002 Gujarat riot points to the Shiv Sena, RSS, Modi, etc.
Extremists on opposing sides often act to the benefit of each other, as both have a vested interest in discrediting accommodation and cooperation.
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@ Odinius
History shows the modus operandi of Bule conquerors were to divide and create animosity among the various ethnics on lands they sought to parasitically feed on. We (the Pribumis) were united against a common foe, if that is what you mean ‘united’ after 1945. The untrustworthy Chinese swapped side.
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Indian says:
@AAB, I am sure that your culture is far superior than the racist abuse you bark out at me, Genetically, all of mankind are related to each other in some way, do not try to measure genes here.
Half of the language you speak, a large percentage of your culture itself has origins from the Indian subcontinent.
You also talk about Javanese not being related, in fact if you check the migratory patterns of ancient javanese and those from Sumatra, they migrated down from north eastern India via Thailand and the Malaysian peninsula. Even today in North eastern India, you will find several cultures and tribes that have starkling resemblance both in physical appearance and in cultural front as well to Javanese.
Eg: The Manipuris of the province of Manipur. Feel free to research it.
@ Odinius, what evidence ? We only believe what the officials tell us, a bunch of uneducated Pakistanis crossing in via sea, where the sea border is under close surveillance already by Indian spy satellites, able to speak fluent English, able to use advanced technology, able to figure out Jewish houses and other areas in the map, the bodies never shown to the media, there are lot of missing links here. Even Hindu elements within the Intelligence could have pulled this off, just to win sympathy from Israel and other western nations, and to also throw off the investigations into Melagon attacks that were done by Hindu extremists with the help of some Indian army officers.
The three top investigating police officers, who already recieved death threats from Hindu fundamentalists, all the three died at once in Mumbai. That to many of us, is very suspicious.
Gujarat’s case is different, Hindu mobs went in public and burnt alive Muslims in full view of the Media. People were able to see who were doing this, in this case, much of it remained hidden and out of view, other than cameras and media personnel running around the scene, what else was shown ?
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Why I call you stupid? Let’s go through your first few paragraphs.
1. There was never a nation called India, but many nations within Indian subcontinent
I believe the ‘many nations within the Indian subcontinent’ shared almost similar tradition, culture, cuisine, etc. Sooner or later, they will be united.
We have Javanese, Balinese, Bugis, etc in the nusantara (the Malay Archipelago), sooner or later we will be united.
2. There is no Indian race, but many cultures and races within India. The Aryans in the North, the Dravidians in the South, Middle eastern, Semetic, Central Asian, Greek and Turkish, Persian, and also Mongloid (similiar to Indonesians) living in the North eastern side of the Country.
These groups do not originally belong to the Indian subcontinent. They are migrants and in the minority. They are suppose to blend in with the majority.
Similarly, we have the Arabs, Persians, and the Chinese. If they want to live in the nusantara (the Malay archipelago), they better blend in.
3. When the British came, they unified the entire kingdoms they conquered for administrative reasons, as one big dominon called British India.
Here is where the similarity ends. We do not need outsiders to unite us. When the Dutch came, they tried hard to create tension among the various ethnic groups. The Javanese being descendant of empire builders united our Asian brothers against the Bule. The Chinese, though being themselves despised by the Bule, opted out and sided with the evil conqueror.
4. When the time for the British to depart had come, they hastily departed without addressing the need for different ethnic groups to have their own respective nations, they left by just dividing the subcontinent on religious grounds as India and Pakistan (which itself was divided later as Bangladesh and Pakistan).
Why should the minorities have nations within nation? Aren’t they supposed to blend in with the people of the land? And Javanese do not break up on religious ground, nor murder their own people on religious issue. That is why I called Indian stupid.
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@ Odinius, what evidence ? We only believe what the officials tell us, a bunch of uneducated Pakistanis crossing in via sea, where the sea border is under close surveillance already by Indian spy satellites, able to speak fluent English, able to use advanced technology, able to figure out Jewish houses and other areas in the map, the bodies never shown to the media, there are lot of missing links here. Even Hindu elements within the Intelligence could have pulled this off, just to win sympathy from Israel and other western nations, and to also throw off the investigations into Melagon attacks that were done by Hindu extremists with the help of some Indian army officers.
The three top investigating police officers, who already recieved death threats from Hindu fundamentalists, all the three died at once in Mumbai. That to many of us, is very suspicious.
Gujarat’s case is different, Hindu mobs went in public and burnt alive Muslims in full view of the Media. People were able to see who were doing this, in this case, much of it remained hidden and out of view, other than cameras and media personnel running around the scene, what else was shown ?
You say you are skeptical of the evidence, but what you are presenting is an even sketchier conspiracy theory. Also, why would it be so odd that a small group of Pakistanis speak English when it is taught in schools in Pakistan and widely spoken across Pakistan? Or that they might know several landmarks and places of interest in the city? Mumbai is a well known place, and English a widely spoken language, particularly in Pakistan.
As for targeting the state counter-terrorism officials, don’t you think that these people would be offensive to BOTH radical hindus and muslims?
People don’t spend enough time thinking about how extremists on different sides can act to each others’ benefit. India has a long history of this. But the classic case would be the death of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. Hamas and Islamic Jihad benefitted greatly from Jewish radical Yigal Amir assassinating Yitzak Rabin, as it killed one of the main proponents of peace. Jewish radicals benefitted greatly from Hamas’ and Islamic Jihad’s suicide bombing campaign, as it killed mainstream Israeli support for peace.
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@@AAB IF i am stupid, you are an ignorant beyond words, I know the country I come from, my Island friend
In your own words
1.I believe the ‘many nations within the Indian subcontinent’ shared almost similar tradition, culture, cuisine, etc. Sooner or later, they will be united.Answer : No. They do not share the same tradition, culture or cuisine, you are wrong, take a plane ticket if you can afford one and travel from province to province, Traditions, and culture and cuisine are MILES APART , even within the same province’s north and south end. Kerala’s cusine and culture is very different from that of Maharashtra, and that is a total polar opposite of Assam, there is NOTHING similiar. Only thing that most people share is Hinduism. Just as Indonesians share Islam with Arabs, so it means you should unite with arabs? If India wanted to unify as one, it would have happened more than 1000 years ago. Perhaps India’s army generals can decide to unify Indonesia forcibly with India then what are you going to do? Get your anthropological facts straight.
2.These groups do not originally belong to the Indian subcontinent. They are migrants and in the minority. They are suppose to blend in with the majority.
Similarly, we have the Arabs, Persians, and the Chinese. If they want to live in the nusantara (the Malay archipelago), they better blend in.Answer : Again, you are way off the course mate, NOTHING belongs originally to the Indian subcontinent, the only group original is the Tamils. and the adivasis, (indgenious tribes) which are Austronesian speaking, known the Vedda people, and Gond tribes. Remaining predominant races that came to that country are Aryans, Scythians, Turkish, Persian, Arab, Mediterranean, Greek, Indo Parthians.
Read the history of India, you will be able to see what it is, secondly there is no Minority or Majority groups, each PROVINCE has its own ethnic group and races living in it. Its called the “UNION OF INDIAN STATES” , the name of the nation not one India where all are expected to assimiliate. Don’t look like a nutjack trying to teach me my own country. I invite you to visit India and see yourself if you don’t believe it.
3. Here is where the similarity ends. We do not need outsiders to unite us. When the Dutch came, they tried hard to create tension among the various ethnic groups. The Javanese being descendant of empire builders united our Asian brothers against the Bule. The Chinese, though being themselves despised by the Bule, opted out and sided with the evil conqueror.Answer my my, such hate to the Chinese, you are someone that calls others “Asian brothers”, and yet call Indians stupid, Chinese untrustworthy , etc etc the list is endless, with guys like you, I fail to see why would any one even want to remain your “Asian brother”, Indonesia ‘s only unifying factor was Majapahit, beyond that it was nothing more than a bunch of tribals living in Islands, having a pathetic copycat of civilizations from India. You were nothing more than an extension of India in its outer bounds. If India wants, India has the military power , capacity and capability to sieze Indonesia and make it forcibly part of what “the Original Hindu glory was”, I do not advocate that however, as I believe that each ethnic group should decide their own destiny. Papuans were never part of your union to begin with.
4. Why should the minorities have nations within nation? Aren’t they supposed to blend in with the people of the land? And Javanese do not break up on religious ground, nor murder their own people on religious issue. That is why I called Indian stupid.
ANSWER : Who is a minority ? Each state has their own respective culture, langauge, and ethnic group. What do you exactly mean by “people of the land”, as there is nothing called people of the land, but other provinces each having their own distinct culture, race, and langauge, they all just are politically united as the UNION OF INDIAN STATES, why should someone “Blend in” and destroy their way of life and values and bastardize their genes ?
Javanese do not break up on religious grounds or murder their own people ? = What about the massacres of the 1960s, when you dragged out communists and leftists and slaughtered them like animals ? What about Ambon’s religious violence? what about Aceh’s seperatist violence ? What about Sulawesi’s religious and seperatist tensions ? What about East timor and the bloodbath there ? (you even lost it HEHEHEH),
What about Mollucas religious violence ? What about the FAMOUS AND JUSTIFIED PAPUAN SEPERATIST MOVEMENT ?your entire country is a MESS, you teach Indians what democracy is ? I have been to Indonesia, and I respect most Javanese people and love them, but you are one pathetic STUPEFIED IGNORANT gaAAnd ki auladh as we call in Hindi . Get an education, travel out, you ethnic centric dud. Before calling Indians stupid.
Atleast, I am bluntly honest about the country I come from, and willing to see its mistake, you bury your mistakes like a dog burying its p00. That’s pathetic. Everyone knows whats happening in Indonesia.
India’s ethnic groups have enough numbers , almost 100+ million or so each , to form their own nations and remain federated like a European Union. Not everyone wants the concept of India or Indonesia sh0ved up their a$$ , like Papuans or Timorese had to take in.
Guys like you won’t even last a day among a group of educated Indians. So get some basic education, and start counting the number of human beings your country slaughtered to keep the “concept and idea ” of Indonesia (INDON-ESOS = INDIAN ISLANDS LOL). Why even name your archipelago after India ? Just curious. may be it does belong to India, and perhaps the Hindu nationalists are right after all, to unify BALI with Hindu India.
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@Odinius It shows your lack of travel to that region, a Pakistani militant coming from an uneducated family who studied till 4th grade in a URDU MEDIUM SCHOOl in a VILLAGE, a Drop out, who went to do manual labor, and did criminal activities and later joined the LET, can speak university standard english fluently and then was captured alive by Indian forces ? = GIVE A BREAK
It shows you have NO CLUE of how the culture or the local regions are, English may be used as “prima lingua franca” in all the official documents of pakistan, but even most pakistanis grapple with the fact of speaking english fluently. So imagine a village man with just 4th grade Urdu education speaking English. Sorry, but your explanation isn’t enough to convince many people.
Secondly, within 1 hour of landing in the City, they went to all the major landmarks so smoothly ? Went to a Jewish house packed full of Jews ? People who never even stepped foot into Indian soil before and came via the Sea ?
So if they came in day time = people may have noticed them easily , including the coast gaurd , Mumbai being near pakistan has a HEAVILY GUARDED MARITIME FRONTIER , any FOOL knows that, with Spy Satellites MONITERING every movement of that area for the past 8 years, (not to forget Mumbai has had other attacks before).
If the attackers came at night , how come the Jewish centre was packed with festivities on night time when all are busy going home and sleeping ?
The three top police officers, Ashok kamte, hemant karkare and another guy who was investigating Hindu fundamentalists, all the 3 DIE ?????????? at once ? Something’s fishy.
Perhaps, Indonesians pulled this one off ? That sounds more sane than Pakis doing this dirty work. After all gunning a few jews down, can mean Hindu extrimists can get lots and lots of cash from Israel, and America along with a christmas bag full of latest ammos and weapons.
and I ain’t even a Muslim to make that assessment.
More evidence, then perhaps lot of us can believe that. Its OUR COUNTRYMEN that died, not yours, and perhaps punishing the real guilty matters. Not simply pointing fingers at pakistanis, as we did after the Samjhautha express explosions, and then finally we find out that Hindus did it.
Lord bless us all.
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I am personally not advocating Indonesia’s disintegration, if it is to happen it will happen, if that is the Lord’s will it will happen, and no standing army can stop that. Same goes with India. Nations have risen and fallen throughout history, empires have come and empires have gone. Therefore, let us see where all this will last in a 100 years time.
When it comes to India, I will advocate voice for all ethnic groups to decide and also give opinions on the ethnic conflicts and root of many issues in that country. Javanese cannot decide what Kashmiri Muslims, Asamese Hindus or Naga Christians should think or do in India. Let them speak for themselves, and decide for themselves as a people what their future and destiny is. Forcing one’s values on others leads to all sorts of wars and conflicts. Wether it is Islamic or Hindu fundamentalists or wether it is ethno-centric Nationalists. Practice your culture in peace, and let others practice theirs in peace.
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ET says:
@ Indian
with guys like you, I fail to see why would any one even want to remain your “Asian brother”, Indonesia ’s only unifying factor was Majapahit, beyond that it was nothing more than a bunch of tribals living in Islands, having a pathetic copycat of civilizations from India.
Don’t waste your time trying to explain to Javanese ethno-imperialists that Indonesia, just like India, is in fact a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural federation. They hijacked the Pancasila doctrine of their founding fathers to become a scam which hides their true motive i.e. replace Dutch colonialism with a Javanese one.
Why even name your archipelago after India ? Just curious. may be it does belong to India, and perhaps the Hindu nationalists are right after all, to unify BALI with Hindu India.
Any more of those idiotic pornography laws and more than a few Balinese might become interested in the idea.
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@ET – The more I read this site, the more I read and follow the news of Indonesia, your words seem very true. I hope the other Ethnic groups of Indonesia do well, and can assert themselves globally.
As for those people who did not believe me, regarding the Mumbai conspiracy, here is the latest news, A Union minister himself now is now suspicious of who killed the 3 police officers.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/17antulay-karkare-malegaon-mumbai.htm
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Whoa, hold your horse, Indian. Don’t need to be on the defensive. I am only calling you ‘stupid’ which is evident from your stupid statements. It could be worse.
You are trying to confuse the readers that the Indian subcontinents is made up of many unrelated group.
In the Indian subcontinent:
Any group or sub group with dark brown hairy skin, pong of curry, bobble their head when starting to speak, wear sari are Indians. You would have a valid point if any of the unrelated Indian group you are trying hard to convince the readers, have blond hair, blue eyes, or even yellow skin and slit eyes. Be they Singharis, tamils, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis and Nepalis; they are all f**king strong>INDIANS. No need to lecture me on differences in cuisine and culture.
In the Nusantara:
Any group or sub group with brown skin, big eyes, lazy, wear peci and carry kris are Malays. Whether they are Achehnese, Javanese, Bugis, Ambonese, Batak, etc; We all belong to the MALAY race.
Now why should there be independent Acheh state, Bugis state or a Batak state? I know several Achehnese who speak different dialects and each had their own unique custom. Why should they be different people because of minor difference in custom?
No. They do not share the same tradition, culture or cuisine, you are wrong, take a plane ticket if you can afford one and travel from province to province, Traditions, and culture and cuisine are MILES APART , even within the same province’s north and south end.
Thanks for the invitation. I used to be a frequent visitor to the Mumbai peninsular (then Bombay) and stayed many times at the very hotel that was terrorised. I travelled around the country and can’t tell the ethnic group from one another. Like I said before, they all bobble their heads and stank of coconut oil; so they must be Indians. It is only dumb Indians like yourself that want to segregated these people because of minor differences. You better go back to your Call Center desk and start bombarding Australians with calls to switch their phone service from Optus to Telstra; or the other way round. Do what you do best, let your patriotic Indian brothers decide on the unity of your country.
my my, such hate to the Chinese, you are someone that calls others “Asian brothers”, and yet call Indians stupid, Chinese untrustworthy , etc etc the list is endless, with guys like you, I fail to see why would any one even want to remain your “Asian brother”,
The Indians and the Chinese were welcomed as Asian Brothers. In time of struggle, the Chinese opted out. Won’t go into detail.
Indonesia ’s only unifying factor was Majapahit, beyond that it was nothing more than a bunch of tribals living in Islands, having a pathetic copycat of civilizations from India.
What civilisation and achievement have the Indians got? Taj Mahal? It was built by the persian conqueror who sighed at the Indians for their lack of advance technology.
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oopsey .. pressed submit button .. haven’t finish yet … 😛
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diego says:
Hands down to AAB. He’s the master of race-bashing. I can’t get even to 5% of his ability. I tried it with the slanted-eyed chinq bitter dragonwall, but I guess it was not insulting enough. Will try harder.
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@ Indian
The more I read this site, the more I read and follow the news of Indonesia, your words seem very true.
So you may have also found out that their obvious strategy is to constantly defame and demonize white people – bule as they call them – in order to divert the attention and keep the memory of a common historical enemy alive so that their own agenda remains unnoticed.
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dragonwall says:
but I guess it was not insulting enough. Will try harder.
So what have you got in mind. typical coward knows of throwing stone with hands behind their back.
Let see what you have for us. Or haven’t you got the ctick out yet and walk like a banci.
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@ Indian
If India wants, India has the military power , capacity and capability to sieze Indonesia and make it forcibly part of what “the Original Hindu glory was”, I do not advocate that however, as I believe that each ethnic group should decide their own destiny.
Whoa whoa .. looks who’s is bobbling his head and talking. You make a very good stand up comedian. I’ll take you down memory lane.
1960s Border Dispute between ‘Geedy’ and ‘Smelly’
India was the aggressor and your prime minister (forgot the name) anxious to curry flavour with the US decided to teach China a lesson once and for all. It only took China less than 2 weeks to wipe out your entire gurkhas platoon, and your prime minister begging for peace. Smelly can’t even beat Greedy when he was at the weakest, and you expect to overwhelm us militarily.
Papuans were never part of your union to begin with.
The Papuans prefer to be under the Javanese than White men. Papuans remember what Ockers did to the abos.
Once again, my advice and let your able curry brothers run your country the way Great Indian empire should be. Of all the migrant groups, the Javanese had a very good relationship with the Indians which was why we have adopted alot of your culture, not that Indian is a superior race, but they have been loyal friends. The Indian migrants here had also proved their eligibility to stay by not siding with the Bule during our time of struggle. We thank you for your curry recipe.
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dragonwall, why are you so upset all the time? is it because of your slanted-eyes? did you know there’s a special surgery to widen eyes? hope that news will cheer you up a bit.
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I suppose you should reflect yourself in the mirror with all your disgusting sarcastic remarks that made you a diego..understand the meaning die before you go. Not even the surgery you understand will help.
You should try another blog set up by yourself and gather those friends of yours and start exchanging sarcasm on the misfortune of others.
Then it will make you happy all the time without others rebutting your butts.
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dragonwail, the squealing worm,
you deserve all the disgusting remarks because you yourself started it. you jump right on every chance to bash indonesians, without whom you would be nothing. now keep that whines for yourself, i guess people are tired of your squeaking sound.
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you deserve all the disgusting remarks because you yourself started it.
Sin when?
you jump right on every chance to bash indonesians,
Which Indonesians? Try and mentioned some of whom that do not deserve, especially with people like you. I suppose you can’t get 5% of AAB stick and you wanted mine?
without whom you would be nothing.
I don’t need that! All I need to know is what I had achieve that is far fetch for you. Perpahs when you try harder you also may. But definitely not right now.
now keep that whines for yourself, i guess people are tired of your squeaking sound.
I do not whine like sacarstic bastards. Since when you made any sense beginning from Maid Abuse and lets see how far that goes.
MF like you only knows how to throw a stone and ran away like cowards. Besides that what are you? So just die–and–go. -
@AAB, if you define Malay as all those you just barked like a dog, then you should include north eastern Indians as Malay too, as they carry your similar features and cultures.
Now, let me move on, talking about “curry”, it shows, how limited your knowledge about the cuisines of that country is, not everyone eats it. As far as you abusing me, come straight face to face and say it if you have the guts to say it , my Javanese friend. Perhaps you just want to increase the number of enemies Javanese have, one Island vs several nations. All it would take is one Nuke from India or China to leave that Island as a desolate wasteland for the next 10,000 years. I do not advocate that, my God does not preach me hate against others, or destroy others.
Hating a people group, that were made in the image of the Lord, itself is murder. You have every inch of a murderer and a genocidal maniac in you. But I promise you this, if men like you harm Indians , Arabs , Europeans or Chinese or kill them, the retaliations will be 100 times fold throughout the world against Javanese. Don’t even go that path. It will only end up destroying your Java permanently.
You been to mumbai ? Is that all ? pity. Have you been to Kashmir ? Have you been to Nagaland, Have you been to Sikkim ? to Manipur ? To Mizoram ? Yes ? No ? Then go and come. You can find a bit of your own Indonesia there, are you willing to call those people who look similar to Javanese, have similar customs, and food bad words ? Lets see.
I gave my whole life to help Javanese in areas that you won’t even begin to comprehend under the spirit of hate that infests you, So i won’t abuse them or insult them. You don’t even know what INDIAN IS, I assure you that, of the 2000 ethnic groups of that nation, only 2-3 are in Indonesia. Trust me, you have no Idea. So quit your barking.
As far as calling racist abuses, and racial stereotypes, you are more than welcome to come face to face and say it at Indians and Arabs. Or are you scared?
Your bitterness, and hate towards Europeans seem evident here. I am not a big fan of European culture, their people killed millions of mine over the last 300 years. Several ethnic groups from India suffered and died under Europeans. I don’t need to learn from you the history of what Indians have gone through, or recently what the minorities go through under the hands of Nationalists.
Ethnoc centric nationalists like you are what gave people like Hitler the reason to rise, and kill Jews. Ethno-Centric nationalists like you are what slaughtered thousands in your own country, destroyed families, destroyed homes.
You feed your own people first, you find medicines to cure diseases, you improve their daily life, help them pay bills, help them get education and empowerment, that ultimately matters, instead of increasing the list of enemies you are busy making.
You may have traveled to a limited area and carry this hate, I am sorry I cannot agree with your narrow and petty minded hate. I have also traveled to many nations of the earth, to every major continent, not as part of any “IT” group, but the U.N itself. So take your garbage assessments elsewhere and clean up the mess in your own country.
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To AAB
Have you done google on Nagaland? Mizoram and Manipur ? Please do that and tell me what you found. They don’t wear saris, or dots. They wear sarongs, and have small eyes like yours, and eat similiar food . The Bamboo dance , Hornbill bird , and a simple way of life is their trademark. Similar to Borneo Tribes.
Have a look here, at the Government websites of Nagaland, Mizroam, Manipur. This shows your ignorance is award winning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagaland
http://mizoram.nic.in/about/ppl.htm (SEE THEM and does it ring a bell to you ? )
http://www.shubhyatra.com/manipur/
http://manipurassembly.nic.in/ministers.htm
http://www.eastarmy.nic.in/images/ARMY%20CDR%20DECORATING%20MANIPUR%20POLICE%20COMMANDO.JPG
http://manipur.nic.in/mosaic.htm
There are also dances in southern part of India that is similiar to Papuan dances, called “Theyyam” by Dravidian tribes.
India is beyond your “curry, IT” or whatever garbage you sniff out daily.
Indian is not a race AAB, it is a Nationality. It is a region. From Kashmir, to Tamil nadu, from Gujarat to Nagaland, there are 2000 diverse ethnic groups and tribes. Each distinct from the other. Some look similar, some don’t. Don’t therefore bother lecturing me on how the country I was born in is. If you can’t even accept India’s diversity and deny it, then how much more would the other diverse groups within Indonesia suffer at your hands? You don’t even accept other groups of Indonesia as equal to Javanese.
@AAB, To add in, the Prime minister of India, during the Sino-Indian war, his name was Nehru. A close friend of Sukarno, and a strong supporter and a friend of Indonesian people, a man who openly supported Indonesia’s independence movement, a man who was a close friend of Sukarno, Indonesia’s first president, a man whom you just belittled and insulted.
Speaks to me volumes about Javanese “Friendship”. I am not a Nationalist nut, going to spend my 1 God Given life over a stupid flag or a political national anthem, I rather use it for the betterment of all mankind and God, for me every ethnic group or linguistic group on the ground can decide their own political future. They don’t need Bapak AAB to decide for them.
The great “Nusantara”, is now Malaysia, Indonesia, East Timor and Brunei. If they are so similar then why 4 instead of 1 ?
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janma says:
If India wanted to unify as one, it would have happened more than 1000 years ago.
umm…. what was ‘Bharat’ then?
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Bharat was a name given to a large region of Bharata’s kingdom, the younger brother of Rama, the hero of the Ramayana Epic. It is a mythological name, and later used in The mahabharata (Mighty Bharata Varsha), Bharata ruled over ayodhya. Later the Hindus began to refer to their land as Bharata, predominantly Northern India. It is similiar to a name given to large area of land or continent, such as “Asia”, or “Africa”, the words “Asia” are used in the bible, in other scriptural books, does not mean one country, but a region.
Indonesia was referred in the Hindu scriptures as “swarana Dwipa (Borneo) , Bali dwipa”. These are ancient name
The word “India” was first given to by the Greeks, to refer to any land “east of the river Indus”, more of a Geographical name. Later when the British came, they siezed the lands east of the river “indus”, and named all the lands there as India or refered to as India.
Arabs refered the subcontinent as “Hind”, east of the River Sindhu (Sindh). Its just a landmass name, nothing more. Just as you say “middle earth”, in the Lord of the rings books.
If you look at the historical maps of the Indian subcontinent , it had “Pandya kingdoms, Chera Kingdoms, Chola kingdoms” etc. They had other names.
Ashoka was the first man to unify all his kingdoms as one big empire that actually gave birth to the concept of India just as Majapahit or Nusantara gave birth to the concept of Indonesia. These are concepts based on former Empires that were expanded by blood bath, not by what the people on the ground wanted.
IF you look that way, British India had Myannmar, Sri lanka etc all included in it. they are not part of India now.
The original name for India is “UNION OF INDIAN STATES”, officially at the moment. Its a”UNION” . Not one country. Goa, Sikkim etc became Union Territories, Andaman and Nicobar Islands have tribes that live near Sumatra Islands , they are of Austronesian Malay origin, those Islands are called “Union Territory”.
Names by itself have historically existed, but they were no where similiar to the political entities that you see right now created by the colonial powers when they left in a hasty.
Manipur, Mizoram, and Nagaland where the people are predominantly of Malay blood and other East asian tribes were never part of this ancient “Ashoka’s kingdom”.
Later, Ashoka’s kingdom passed into the hands of other emperors, and then that was invaded by the turks and persians, Mongols, Mughals and moves on the British. Ashoka was the only Hindu king more or less to unify many kingdoms BY FORCE. (which he later repented if you read his life biography and converted to Buddhism and helped spread Buddhism to Indonesia)
Putting a Gun on someone’s head and saying they should be forced to become part of some garbage historical kingdom, or a political entity only leads to eventual resentment and conflicts. We will see where concepts such as Indonesia or India remains after 100 years. Yugoslavia, and U.S.S.R are super examples of what happens to such countries if they don’t get their priorities straight.
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oh .. didn’t see your comment until now.
Culturally for all races, there are weak points. It depends on how bad and obscene the weaknesses are.
It is an Eskimo’s cultural belief and practises that he should offer his wife and daughter to sleep with guests. If the guest refused, it is insulting. This is bad culture.
For Arabs, they believe in blood-for-blood revenge, honour killing, beating women and sex with preteen kids are condoned. This is bad culture.
Ocker rapes and kills those weaker than them. This is bad.
The Javanese only weakness is ‘relaxed and easy going with everyone’. Not a bad weakness, nonetheless it does not prepare us against greedy chinese migrants. Culturally the chinese are very good except for their greediness.