Fitna by Geert Wilders
Mar 7th, 2008, in Opinion, by LairedionLairedion on the gathering storm over Geert Wilders’ upcoming anti-Islam film “Fitna”.
Tensions are rising as Dutch controversial MP Geert Wilders is about to reveal his anti-Quran movie Fitna. How will Indonesian Muslims respond to the next “insult” on Islam, shortly after the second Danish cartoon controversy?
Since his emergence in Dutch politics Geert Wilders has gained much attention and support for his fierce anti-Islam and anti-immigration stances. In line with contemporary right-wing politicians his message seems simple yet appealing and his voice is loud. Deport criminal and illegal foreigners, stop the Islamization of Dutch society (prohibit construction of new mosques, refusing all Muslims from moving to and living in Holland), sell the Dutch Antilles to the highest offer on a Dutch auction website and much of the problems are solved.
So far his party PVV (Freedom Party) managed to win 9 seats in the last elections but opinion polls show they can count on 15 seats at least or even more if elections are hold right now. But his “crusade” comes with a price. Like so many critics of Islam he is constantly under the threat of being murdered and needs to be guarded 24/7 and lives on a secret location.
Geert Wilders.
Geert Wilders, who has some Indonesian blood running through his veins, wants to show the world Al-Quran is a fascist and violent book, in line with Hitler’s Mein Kampf, and must be banned. It will be interesting to see how Wilders can dismiss a book, considered holy by 1.3 billion people, as fascist in a movie of 15 minutes, while ulama’s and clerics have been studying Al-Quran for centuries and up until now are having trouble to come to an unified explanation and interpretation.
But what’s all the fuss about? So far it has only been speculation and the movie hasn’t been broadcasted yet.
Anyway the Netherlands is pretty much in a state of alert. The Dutch government is preparing for the worst-case scenario (retaliation, violence and damage towards Dutch citizens, economic interests and enterprises, terrorist attacks). On the other side many people are criticizing the Dutch government for exaggerating any potential dangers and impacts caused by this movie. An interesting sign is that Dutch Muslims seem to grow mature and sensible in their reactions towards insults to Islam. The last Danish cartoon controversy didn’t spark any violence or significant protest in Holland and this movie will be just the next insult, meant to provoke reactions and violence so that Wilders can prove his points and not worthy paying any attention.
The worldwide reaction probably will be different. Recovering from the latest Danish cartoon controversy, Muslims worldwide are preparing for the next Western “assault” on Islam. Politicians in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran are urging the Dutch government to prohibit the broadcast and last week some 200 Indonesian Muslims staged a protest outside the Dutch Embassy in Jakarta.
Where does the freedom of speech crosses the line and turns into discrimination thus violating article 1 of the Dutch Constitution where discrimination of people on their gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, political view or any other ground is prohibited? This is the same article Wilders is referring to by branding Al-Quran as fascist.
It is not known yet when the movie will go online. So far Wilders has stated the move is finished and he is negotiating a broadcast with Dutch TV stations but this is likely to fail as none of them want to burn their fingers. 28 March 2008 could be a possible date. For anyone interested bookmark www.fitnathemovie.com in your favorites.
415 Comments on “Fitna by Geert Wilders”
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J Generic says:
Ha.
Muslimbound talks about how his mentor declares how other groups of people will never be pleased with muslims. Well, how can anyone be pleased with a group whose most zealous members believe it is their RIGHT and DUTY to kill PEOPLE who don’t believe as they do.?
But it’s not just muslims killing non-muslims. Oh no. Not by a long shot
You hypocrites kill and torture each other by the scores all in the name of your wretched religion. You use power drills, hammers, and other blunt instruments to kill and maim so-called “collaborators” and “traitors”. If you didn’t have the banner of Jihad, your ilk would be nothing but criminals.
And that is how you appear to the world. You oppress women, music, art, and free thought.
Your religion is violence incarnate.
Geert Wilders is right and the rest of the world knows it.
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John says:
muslimbound,
Let me make it clear what I believe. I believe there is no God, there is no Heaven, there is no Hell. I believe all religions are wrong and many are evil.
There is no evidence that God exists so why believe in her. You will say that the evidence for her existence is the Quran, Christians would point to the bible, the Jews have their holy books. The problem for you is that these books were not written by God but by many different men, written hundreds of years after the events they describe, and their philosophy reflects the society of their day. So why believe these books?
Most religions have changed their thinking to reflect scientific discoveries, increased knowledge and a more civilised society. These religions still argue that there is a God, but have made many changes to their beliefs, teachings and practices. For example, most religions now accept that the idea that God created the universe in seven days is absolute nonsense. There are still some people however, and George Bush is one, who still believe this nonsense.
The problem with Islam is that it refuses to recognise these facts and refuses to change. The problem with the Quran is that it was written by so many people in so many different writing styles that it is full of conflicting ideas. A peaceful, caring Muslim, and I think you are one, can find many passages in the Quran to support the idea that Islam preaches peace and goodwill. But there are just as many passages that preach hatred and violence. These are the messages that Imams and terrorists quote to support jihad and murder. The Quran orders good Muslims to strike down non-believers. The Quran is used to justify the beheading or stoning to death of Muslim women who are thought to have been in the company of a non-family male. If you want to study the Quran in detail and find both the messages of peace and the messages of hatred, I can send you details of a Muslim website where you can find the Quran in English and Arabic. It makes very interesting reading!!!!
These are the aspects of your religion that are unacceptable to others and will change eventually when enlightenment reaches Muslim countries. Now I won’t ask you why you believe what you believe. It is none of my business. Anyway, you could not offer any evidence because a belief in God is simply an act of faith.
All we ask is that Muslims leave others alone and do not try to force this nonsense on people who know better. If God could speak, I am sure she would agree.
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Cukurungan says:
Your religion is violence incarnate.
Geert Wilders is right and the rest of the world knows it.Geert Wilders could be right but in now days, the Muslim followers are already too many to be killed. Therefore, I can sleep well with smiling face because the rest of the world knows about us but they can do nothing against us.
These are the aspects of your religion that are unacceptable to others and will change eventually when enlightenment reaches Muslim countries
However God told to us in the Quran as below:
[025:052] Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Quran).Now I won’t ask you why you believe what you believe. It is none of my business. Anyway, you could not offer any evidence because a belief in God is simply an act of faith.
Can you give us evidence otherwise that God does not exist and everything in this world is self existence or to begin with an accident.
You might start to prove from a simple matter, please show to us how a donut cake could self existence and no one ever plan and make it.All we ask is that Muslims leave others alone and do not try to force this nonsense on people who know better. If God could speak, I am sure she would agree.
Why you do not us your infidel brother to do the same thing, leave Muslim alone and keep your democracy at your home and leave Afghanistan/Iraq and return back any land you have been stolen by forced to the native land owner.
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Janma says:
Can you give us evidence otherwise that God does not exist and everything in this world is self existence or to begin with an accident.
You might start to prove from a simple matter, please show to us how a donut cake could self existence and no one ever plan and make it.hey cuk, it’s odd how according to your ‘donut’ logic ‘someone’ had to have created the world, that it could not have happened by accident. Therefore, in true logical fashion you have surmised there must have been a creator, or God. You are not able find a logical argument for the existence of the universe without there being a God, but you are willing to believe in God, who also wasn’t created and could not have existed ‘just by accident’ without someone creating him or her?????
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hey cuk, it’s odd how according to your ‘donut’ logic ‘someone’ had to have created the world, that it could not have happened by accident. Therefore, in true logical fashion you have surmised there must have been a creator, or God. You are not able find a logical argument for the existence of the universe without there being a God, but you are willing to believe in God, who also wasn’t created and could not have existed ‘just by accident’ without someone creating him or her?????
There is no logical unless there is an assumption, let us test again what so called the true logical fashion with another case who is the first appear in this world chicken or egg? No one can prove either chicken or egg that firstly appear by accident but in order to begin theory of the chicken from egg or vice versa it must be an ASSUMPTION that there is some one who created either egg or chicken in the first place in order to begin the egg and chicken theory. And the some one who created either egg or chicken we called a Creator or God.
The logical of Creator is no one created Him otherwise He shall not deserve to be called as a Creator and so far I know God or Creator has restricted our brain to think about His creation and to belief about His existence and not vice versa.
The above assumption is the closest approach we can begin to understand of the world rather we assume that everything begin by itself while no scientific prove as well to support this theory.
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Lairedion says:
No one can prove either chicken or egg that firstly appear by accident but in order to begin theory of the chicken from egg or vice versa it must be an ASSUMPTION that there is some one who created either egg or chicken in the first place in order to begin the egg and chicken theory
Sound like Buddhism to me. There is a cause for everything.
so far I know God or Creator has restricted our brain to think about His creation and to belief about His existence and not vice versa
So far I know your “God” has restricted your brain to believe in Middle Eastern fairy tales and not to think further because the “Absolute Truth” was revealed in the Arabian peninsula 1429 years ago.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
@muslimbound
and I think to insult anybody is kinda your habbit too
I have no intent whatsoever to insult you because you are Muslim. But after reading your posts I sincerely advise you to try to think outside the box your environment has put you in. There’s more to life than Qur’an vs. Bible you know. It reminds me of a cricket fight where they put the opponents in a bamboo tube with no other way out than winning or retreat. No wonder the poor creatures get tunnel vision.
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Cukurungan,
In an attempt to justify your religious beliefs, you are asking me to prove that God does not exists!!! Surely an intelligent, thinking man would first look for proof of the existence of God before signing up to a religion that completely rules every aspect of your life, including your relationship with family and the state. Did you not first do this, or did you accept without critical thought everything that a religious teacher taught you?
If the answer is that you did not give it critical thought then this confirms what most non-religious people like me despise most about religions, especially Islam. You are confirming that you were brain-washed and passively allowed Islam to wash over you. Shame on you.
If you did first give it critical thought I would be interested to know what proof persuaded you that God exists. Don’t quote the hogwash that the Quran or the teaching of a dead prophet gave you the proof or I will fall off my chair with laughter.
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cuk….
you don’t know how the universe came into being.
you assume it must be God, but you don’t know how God got to be there either.
-either the universe IS God or you should take the time to learn more about science before stating it as an unsatisfactory solution to the appearance of the universe. -
Sound like Buddhism to me. There is a cause for everyt
Do not you know that I am a mutant Buddha on earth, everything in the universe follow the cause and effect law but the cause and effect law only can begin after a Super Creator created the cause.
So far I know your “God” has restricted your brain to believe in Middle Eastern fairy tales and not to think further because the “Absolute Truth” was revealed in the Arabian peninsula 1429 years ago.
It does not matter as long as I can life happily with this restriction however if you could offer me something better than our fairly tales I will throw it away.
Cukurungan,
In an attempt to justify your religious beliefs, you are asking me to prove that God does not exists!!! Surely an intelligent, thinking man would first look for proof of the existence of God before signing up to a religion that completely rules every aspect of your life, including your relationship with family and the state. Did you not first do this, or did you accept without critical thought everything that a religious teacher taught you?I do admit that you are intelligent man while myself have nothing except a religious teacher taught to me so I have nothing to prove however you claimed that your self is the intelligent and thinking man so prove it to us how everything in this world could appear by itself no one ever made it. Please do not waste your time in talking b**it just prove it then I will convert to Atheism otherwise you are no more and no less just like me the other brain washed bigot but only with a different label”¦the bigot atheism.
If the answer is that you did not give it critical thought then this confirms what most non-religious people like me despise most about religions, especially Islam. You are confirming that you were brain-washed and passively allowed Islam to wash over you. Shame on you.
Why I have to bother with your hate and feeling toward our belief that is your own business I tell you that even all the human on earth do not like us that will not change anything in our belief.
What is purpose a critical think that give nothing except a deep frustration, confusion and anxiety otherwise people who live in the non-religious countries such as Russia, Japan, Slovenia, Latvia, Belgium and many other non-religious countries would life happily without staggering suicide case.If you did first give it critical thought I would be interested to know what proof persuaded you that God exists. Don’t quote the hogwash that the Quran or the teaching of a dead prophet gave you the proof or I will fall off my chair with laughter.
You are always talking a Critical thought but you have nothing to show your critical thought and scientific evidence to support your disbelieve. At the moment our score is not much different I belief in God as George Washington did and you do not belief in God as Polpot did full stop and no explanation.
you should take the time to learn more about science before stating it as an unsatisfactory solution to the appearance of the universe.
That is God told to us: He say never try to think about ME but learn and think about MY CREATION otherwise you will become KAFIR and at the moment science could not yet revealed all of HIS CREATION then how come the blind and deaf people using a science to explain ABOUT HIM (SUPER CREATOR)
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however if you could offer me something better than our fairly tales I will throw it away.
Nope. I reckon your religion is perfect for your little brains. 🙂
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Andy says:
It seems interesting that in the more educated, enlightened countries religion seems like a non event and only followed passionately by a small percentage of the population.
Most people I know have no idea or clue how to explain the existence of God but still continue to do so regardless.
Considering the amount of people who killed or are killed in muslim countries, I wonder if it is simply out of fear alone that they continue on this aimless path. -
I wonder if it is simply out of fear alone that they continue on this aimless path.
Fear is a prerequisite for religion…without fear there would be no religion.
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Joe says:
It is not because of fear that there is a religion or people follows a religion out of fear. Thats not true. Every single individual has some kind of fear in him. If this was so then the fear would make him/her bow down to things he feared and that would be his/her religion or even call that thing God. But we human beings have been granted with intelligence and knowledge and we are superior to other ceatures on this earth and that is why our common sense guide us, that for example if we fear a spider we can kill it, and all the fear is over. This fear does not make us pray a spider or other creatures. The fear which really makes us follow the right path whether it be a religion or the laws of a country is the fear of punishment. This in inherent in huiman beings and this has lead to certain code of conduct which is acceptable and certain not. That is the boundaries of a society. Societies, civilisations or human beings have followed the path of evolution from a state of ‘animals’ to a state of what we are suppose to be called human beings. This code of conduct has allow us to embarked on that evolution and has with time curtailed a framework where we can live freely.But the question is how these values on which this framework is based came into practice. Human being by nature is an animal and therfore behaves like an animal. Therefore it is logical that this state of mind was not inherent to human beings but have to be inculcated. The law of a country which we know is the type of law which deals only with fact and evidence, there is no moral intervention or values in it. From where human beings have acquired these moral values. It from religions from those person which are called Prophets where their teachings come from God. A religion is suppose to be here not as just a platform for meeting people or where as if you have a professional life, a social life or then also a religious life, that is not the objective. The objective of a religion is to ensure that the society is evolving well into a peaceful society where everybody is free and has the right to live.Islamic teachings is such that it promotes this type of societies. There are many people in this platform who are talking about Islam but does not even has a hint of what its teachings are. This is true that there are many Imams that are distorting this religion and preaching baseless and unfounded things and then attribute those teachings to Islam. But there are other Imams who in the other hand are condemning those acts of crimes by the muslim extremists as this is not the Islamic teachings. you have to take that into consideration also. And one of the Islamic teaching is to respect the individual and his belief, on this platform there are many muslim people who are addressing non muslim as Kafir or infidels, I think that we should respect the individuals and use this platform constructively and not destructively to promote further hate and preach useless things. Moses(peace be upon him) preached ‘an eye for an eye’ that one end of the spectrum and Jesus (peace be upon him) preached that ‘when someone slap you then you should present the other cheek to him’ thats the other end of the spectrum but when Muhammad(peace and blessing be upon him) came he preached the middle line that is moderation. People are now also on this platform citing the verses of the Quran without even explaining or I think that they themselves do not understand it how will they preach to others and thats false interpretation. Please if you do not know the meaning please do not use it is misguiding people.
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A small story about the existence of God.
There was a barber who was shaving a man and the barber asked that man how do you know that God exists give me a proof. That man tried to explain to that barber that you know that there is God. Just look a the orderly way of the nature works and how can anythings come into being without nothing. You have to ponder about that and asked help from God himself that if you really want me to believe in You then help me to do that by showing me some proof. But that barber insisted that if God existed where is he and why do we not see him. That was the greatest logic for that barber of not seeing God as everything else points towards the existence of a Creator. The poor man could not argue on this matter and he was leaving the when he saw a man standing oustside with very very long hair and beard. He called the barber and said to him that barbers does not exist. That barber laugh and said what barber does not exist who am I and you just left from here. That man again said that barber does not exist as look at this man here he has very very long hair and beard.How come if a barber exist he would be in this state? The barber replied and said what nonsense he is standing in front of me and if does not want to come to me for a shave how can I force him to do so he has his choice. If he wanted to be more beautiful then he can come to me. On that the man replied that in exactly the same way you cannot say that God does not exist if you do not want to ask him for help or anything else. People ask for proof about God existence and the only proof that people usually have is that we have not seen God and where is he but apart from this what proof do those people present that God does not exists.But you are right to say that we must not believe blindly even if a prophet tells us. We have to investigate his claim or saying and then believe an dthe very first step of course is Does God exist or not??? Try to search before saying yes but try to search before sayong no also.It is very easy to say no.
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Science does not explain everything. How does science explain the coming of the universe into being. What was there that initiated this process out of nothingness. Its is the same question as who came first the egg or the chicken. Science cannot prove that. It is the same as cloning for example I think that they use the embryo for the start of the process but can they create the embryo out of nothing. That is our limit and the limit of science. Please explain the any rational scientific explanation of creating the embryo out of nothing then we can say that yes we can doubt the existence of a Creator.
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Considering the amount of people who killed or are killed in muslim countries, I wonder if it is simply out of fear alone that they continue on this aimless path.
Do not watch too much Fox News and before you talked please open your eyes otherwise you only embarrass your self check below:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
The amount of people who killed or are killed beyond “WAR ZONE” in Muslim countries is far less than in the non-Muslim countries.
Nope. I reckon your religion is perfect for your little brains.
Many thank for your compliment, at least my little brains concept about God & Universe is in line with many other little brain people of some well known scientists as below:
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/schaefer/docs/bigbang.html -
Joe said
Science does not explain everything. How does science explain the coming of the universe into being. What was there that initiated this process out of nothingness.
Try to use your imagination and think outside the box. There are other possible scenario’s. Why does there have to be a creator and a ‘creation out of nothingness’? What is the definition of nothingness? Nothingness is a contradiction in terms because it implicates ‘non-being’. Non-being cannot exist, otherwise it would exist and prove by itself that it is a fallacy.
Is it so difficult to imagine that there is only one Reality of which the universe and the laws that govern it are an intrinsic part? In other words that we are a part of this ‘evolving’ Reality – call it God if you like – which is eternal by Itself.
In this revolving Wheel goes the roaming swan
As the human soul in unending flight
Through the cycle of life and death
Until man recognizes himself, his own Self,
As God, the timeless and undivided Oneness,
Then he finds peace and quiet in His immortality.
(Shvetâshvatara Upanishad) -
Great Dewa….. you saved me typing!
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Cuk:
Many thank for your compliment,
No thanks, Mas. I’m never short of giving compliments, not even to my adversaries 😉
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You are right by saying that nothingness implicates non-being and non-being cannot exist.In fact non being cannot exits. This proves that there should be a being where all this started.But there should be a starting point for everything. I said out of nothingness to say that there should be that one Reality there which is pulling the strings and that is the start of everything which came from that one Reality which exist by Itself. You are also right in saying that the universe and the laws governing it are an intrinsic part of that Reality. I call that Reality God.
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Can you please give me all the possible scenarios which you mentioned there were that portrays how science explains creation out of ‘nothingness’. That Reality is eternal as it were and will always be.He is not evolving. He is the same in all His attributes. If He was evolving then He would not be perfect in all His attributes as you mentioned in the quote:
As God, the timeless and undivided Oneness
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Can you please give me all the possible scenarios which you mentioned there were that portrays how science explains creation out of ‘nothingness’. That Reality is eternal as it were and will always be.He is not evolving. He is the same in all His attributes. If He was evolving then He would not be perfect in all His attributes as you mentioned in the quote:
As God, the timeless and undivided Oneness
Darling you want to take a course in evolutionary science, this site is not the place to do it…. for something as complicated as the origins of our universe, it would hardly suffice to try to explain it in simple sentences, though I laud you your attempt! “God did it”… simplistic, but apparently believable….
About God evolving and what the status of his perfection is, well I’d like you to explain in a few words how you know this? -
Mach Jabber says:
Suddenly turned to be yet another theist-atheist battleground.
I don’t say that God does not exist, but its existence is unnecessary— at least Hawking, no less, said so (and he’s not of Jewish ancestry, for you cospiracy theorists).
The assumption that God exists because everything must have a creator is self-contradictory, because the conclusion (that God exists) negates the first premise. For God is self-created.
And this is OOT.
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Joe said
But there should be a starting point for everything.
Absolute Being, what you call God, has no starting point. Because non-being cannot exist we have to be an intrinsic part of this Absolute Being and share Its eternity. Eternity means beyond time and space. Time and space are not absolute but merely the coordinates with which we describe our evolving environment, what Hindu’s call maya, the powerful force that creates the cosmic illusion that the phenomenal world is real. Maya is thus that cosmic force that presents the infinite brahman (Absolute Being) as the finite phenomenal world. Maya is reflected on the individual level by human ignorance (ajnana) of the real nature of the self, which man has mistaken for the empirical ego but which is in reality identical with brahman (Absolute Being).
Can you please give me all the possible scenarios which you mentioned there were that portrays how science explains creation out of ‘nothingness’. That Reality is eternal as it were and will always be.He is not evolving. He is the same in all His attributes. If He was evolving then He would not be perfect in all His attributes as you mentioned in the quote:
Janma is right. This site is not the place to give a course in evolutionary science. But if you are interested I advise you to have a look at ‘process philosophy’ or ‘process theology’, a 20th-century school of Western thought that emphasizes the elements of becoming, change, and novelty in experienced reality. Foremost among the many modern thinkers who have contributed to process philosophy have been
– Henri Bergson (Nobel Prize for Literature in 1927) : Creative Evolution
– Alfred North Whitehead : Process and Reality
– Charles Heartshorne : The Divine RelativityWith regard to Hindu philosophy and metaphysics look for samkhya and the more extreme advaita vedanta.
For a fascinating view into the convergence of modern physics and oriental philosophies I recommend ‘The Tao of Physics’ by physicist Fritjof Capra, although the physics part of it already requires some advanced knowledge.
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– Charles Heartshorne : The Divine Relativity
Correction: should be Hartshorne.
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rupert says:
well here we go again the hamas chief cleric finally show us who is the real “Crusaders”
The fiery sermon, delivered by Yunis al-Astal and aired on Hamas’ Al-Aqsa TV, predicted that Rome would become “an advanced post for the Islamic conquests, which will spread though Europe in its entirety, and then will turn to the two Americas, even Eastern Europe.”
he said it not me the true goal of Islam is to conqure the world , like Hitler, like Alexander , and all the other Dictators that have come before so when you say CRUSADERS you must be refering to the islamists and not the Christians we Christians are a peaceful people by nature but when provoked we will fight as we did before this type of Islamic prevocation has to stop !! -
Tony says:
Fitna has taken news that is true and put it into a film that people are calling lies. That is bullsh*t. All he did was paste a bunch of real events from television and newspaper and now muslims are complaining. If the muslims dont like it then do something about it–stop encouraging animals like Abu Bakar Bashir to do the things they do.
I support freedom of speech and freedom of religion. But hey, lets stop forcing our imaginary friends onto everyone else–some of us dont believe in God and that is okay too. However, from what I see, it is okay if muslims burn churches, kill children and force others from their place of worship but if someone makes a film ( composed of TRUE events I might add) then the muslims want to declare jihad and threaten everyone with bloodshed.
Stop blaming Wilders and start blaming the idiot in the mirror and maybe we wont have a world where isalm is synonymous with terrorism. It is one thing to say or show something that people dont like–it is quite another to blow up innocent people to prove a point for a god no one, and I mean no one, can prove even exists.
Enough is enough.
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rupert said
The fiery sermon, delivered by Yunis al-Astal and aired on Hamas’ Al-Aqsa TV, predicted that Rome would become “an advanced post for the Islamic conquests, which will spread though Europe in its entirety, and then will turn to the two Americas, even Eastern Europe.”
These clowns are becoming more and more grotesque. And the world looks on in awe and silence, and isn’t allowed to retaliate.
I concur with Tony
Enough is enough.
Comment on “Fitna by Geert Wilders”.
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bismillahirrahmanirrahiim.
Teng did I say that? I don’t think I did, what I said, jew, christian never willing to let us
to take islam unless we become one of them, doesn’t have to convert to christian, jew as long as we think like them, and act like them we’ll be accepted 🙂
and I don’t act as a victim, never be and never let myself as one, sorry if you got the wrong impression. and teng I did write most of you, not all of you and yes I do read 🙂
John, like I said before that is what you see and what you want it to believe and it happen
I don’t blame you, I got videos here about ambon, palestine, afghanistan, Poso most of them not even shown in al jazeera or CNN, BBC so… you will tell me that those videos are lying? or can I have the same right as you to say those news on CNN, BBC are lying too… we’re getting nowhere 🙂
the fact your letter kinda justifying what Geert do … it’s hurt and you won’t accept any thruth coz you have your own truth and thats okay, but I have my own truth too and I hope that’s okay with you, and now you even blame Quran 🙂
and the rest of the world is that the Quran and Muslim preachers preach hatred.
and I think those quote is the basic foundation on how the way you think, make sense for me that we can’t discuss anymore, if your statement all driven by Quran then basically you think all Muslim are wrong 🙂 thank you for the opportunity to see your real skin 🙂 if you said “muslim preacher” well I do admit maybe, because we have bad muslims here nothing’s strange don’t ya christians and jews have bad followers too? nope? oh well i’ll let you to answer that. BUT you said Quran… one thing is clear now, as I write in my 1st letter you never willing to let us take our religion peacefully until we follow you 😉 if you blame Quran then you blame All Muslims. in other word you push us to change our holy book, in other word you will never rest until we do 🙂
How Rude! 🙂 are you familiar to Qur’an? Do you want me to discuss bible in here coz Iam very familiar with it but it will be long long discussion and I can’t see the where it end and let keep focus on the topic “fitna” by geert wilder :), I do have christian Friends in here but if they ask me something I don’t wanna explain to them according to Quran, but from bible. the question is have you read Quran carefully john?
I am from Batak Ethnic, most of us are christian almost 90% even my father was a christian, I am muslim since the day I was born coz my late father convert his religion when he was at the university, even at the beginning my father was very surprised when he was in the christian school all they have taught him as a preacher is to destroy islam in faith not by war or battle but in mind war, when he converted to islam he found out none of his ustadz told him to do the same 🙂
I’m not obedient kid, even once I’ve been accepted to enter Berkeley music school, and my father told me … he’s worried what would I become hehehe and Thanks for Allah I didn’t join that school, so anyway sorry to tell you little bit of my story you can put it on “ignore”, what I want to say is my late father never forbid us to learn holy bible we’re very familiar with it, he said if Allah let us to find the truth Allah will lead us no matter how, my siblings … most of them are secular, but days to come now some of them are trying to learn even more 🙂 hope Allah lead them too
now john back on your “quote” have you read quran carefully?
and I never want to explain about bible until my friends ask me… even my relative
coz most of them are christian, coz to explain bible to them when they didn’t ask me might hurt them, and I don’t wanna do that, but see now you accused Quran and I don’t wanna do the same coz it will lead us nowhere, you’ve built your own opinion your own believe.
from my side if someone tell bad things about holy bible I don’t wanna encourage them or support them and tell them that they are “heroes”, I will say to one who got hurt by their action. “well we can discuss it page per page from bible to find out and we will discuss from their holy books, “islam, jew” page per page too to find out.
But I guess it’s an efforthless conduct to you … oh well you’ve found your truth, and world spinning around you as central of the truth, there is no other thruth other than your truth right john?
anyway I apologize if I’ve offended most of you, I guess it’s time for me to stop here
don’t wanna make statement anymore. Coz I know it will getting nowhere. I don’t mind to be blamed and foolish, maybe I am not smart as most of you, then why bother and get upset with this foolish guy have said … if you’re as smart and as well educated as you think. 🙂
laa ilaaha illallahu