Fitna by Geert Wilders
Mar 7th, 2008, in Opinion, by LairedionLairedion on the gathering storm over Geert Wilders’ upcoming anti-Islam film “Fitna”.
Tensions are rising as Dutch controversial MP Geert Wilders is about to reveal his anti-Quran movie Fitna. How will Indonesian Muslims respond to the next “insult” on Islam, shortly after the second Danish cartoon controversy?
Since his emergence in Dutch politics Geert Wilders has gained much attention and support for his fierce anti-Islam and anti-immigration stances. In line with contemporary right-wing politicians his message seems simple yet appealing and his voice is loud. Deport criminal and illegal foreigners, stop the Islamization of Dutch society (prohibit construction of new mosques, refusing all Muslims from moving to and living in Holland), sell the Dutch Antilles to the highest offer on a Dutch auction website and much of the problems are solved.
So far his party PVV (Freedom Party) managed to win 9 seats in the last elections but opinion polls show they can count on 15 seats at least or even more if elections are hold right now. But his “crusade” comes with a price. Like so many critics of Islam he is constantly under the threat of being murdered and needs to be guarded 24/7 and lives on a secret location.
Geert Wilders.
Geert Wilders, who has some Indonesian blood running through his veins, wants to show the world Al-Quran is a fascist and violent book, in line with Hitler’s Mein Kampf, and must be banned. It will be interesting to see how Wilders can dismiss a book, considered holy by 1.3 billion people, as fascist in a movie of 15 minutes, while ulama’s and clerics have been studying Al-Quran for centuries and up until now are having trouble to come to an unified explanation and interpretation.
But what’s all the fuss about? So far it has only been speculation and the movie hasn’t been broadcasted yet.
Anyway the Netherlands is pretty much in a state of alert. The Dutch government is preparing for the worst-case scenario (retaliation, violence and damage towards Dutch citizens, economic interests and enterprises, terrorist attacks). On the other side many people are criticizing the Dutch government for exaggerating any potential dangers and impacts caused by this movie. An interesting sign is that Dutch Muslims seem to grow mature and sensible in their reactions towards insults to Islam. The last Danish cartoon controversy didn’t spark any violence or significant protest in Holland and this movie will be just the next insult, meant to provoke reactions and violence so that Wilders can prove his points and not worthy paying any attention.
The worldwide reaction probably will be different. Recovering from the latest Danish cartoon controversy, Muslims worldwide are preparing for the next Western “assault” on Islam. Politicians in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran are urging the Dutch government to prohibit the broadcast and last week some 200 Indonesian Muslims staged a protest outside the Dutch Embassy in Jakarta.
Where does the freedom of speech crosses the line and turns into discrimination thus violating article 1 of the Dutch Constitution where discrimination of people on their gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, political view or any other ground is prohibited? This is the same article Wilders is referring to by branding Al-Quran as fascist.
It is not known yet when the movie will go online. So far Wilders has stated the move is finished and he is negotiating a broadcast with Dutch TV stations but this is likely to fail as none of them want to burn their fingers. 28 March 2008 could be a possible date. For anyone interested bookmark www.fitnathemovie.com in your favorites.
415 Comments on “Fitna by Geert Wilders”
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
@ Deng Xiao Phing
… NON-HALAL ZONE BECAUSE THEY EAT THE VERY DELICIOUS PORK SAUSAGE WHICH I ALSO LIKE IT ! hm “¦ very delicious “¦ hm frankfurt pork sausage “¦ bring them here more “¦ I want to eat them all
Was that meant to insult?
Just like Female Genital Multilation; foreigners think we have a problem because of FGM in Islamic countries. In Indonesia, FGM was rarely carried out; Just bay leaf and doa to symbolise the ritual, no cutting. The same goes with pork. I don’t see how we can be offended. Pork is haram to Overseas Muslims does not mean it is haram to us; majority don’t mind eating them. They are delicious especially the Babi guling by the Balinese and Char siow by the Tiong Hua. If you are not familiar with Indonesian Islam despite claiming to speak Javanese, I suggest you stay intelligent by acting dumb.
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Sylvester says:
You eat pork Aluang?
That surprises me.
At this time I have to salute you. Being a good Moslem or Christian is not about halal haram but is about how to be a good human being inside. -
Robert says:
@Cukurungan
It is goods ideas if the Dutch want to deport and expel all muslim from there
Which Dutch are you referring to? Government? Politicians?
Most muslims in the Netherlands have Dutch nationality, so expelling is not possible. The roots of the majority of the Dutch Muslims are in Turkey and Morocco so there is no link with Indonesia.Dutch also should not forget to return back the multi billion $ had been stolen from here and paid compensation to hundred thousands our countrymen had been killed by them during 350years of the Christian Dutch criminal time in here
Fully agree. The Dutch behaved in appaling manner, so compensation should be paid.
I am trying to figure out the amount of money to be be paid. The problem is to establish the going rate for compensation. Maybe I can use the rate that is being is used in Indonesia. Cukurungan, can you tell me how much money the Indonesian Government paid to the people in Aceh, West-Papua and East-Timor to compensate for the killings there?
Also I am trying to calculate the amount of money the former VOC sould pay back for the natural resources they took with them. Do you happen to know how much compensation money is being paid by companies like Newmont Mining Co. and Freeport-McMoran for robbing Indonesia? Can you shed a light on this? Thanks. I will contact Tommy Suharto about the rates concerning the spices stolen.
Cukurungan, those criminal Dutch Christians will have to pay one day, bloody infidels! -
Agusto says:
Dear Syvester,
Being a good Moslem or Christian is not about halal haram but is about how to be a good human being inside.
You got it all wrong, being a good muslim is someone who emulates good ol pedomoh to the very detail. And being a good christian is some one who is willing to turn the other cheek when smacked by muslims, and then pay the jizyah.
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Lairedion says:
Cuk, Robert,
There’s another thread running on IM dealing with Dutch Compensation
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rupert says:
Why you don’t make the same recommendations to your infidels brother to leave all muslim teritory and don’t make business with any muslim and let us riding back Camel and horse.. Why ? or is it because all the infidels born as cheater and liar.
I tell you that our countries was a beautiful countries until the infidels christian came to our land and killing our people and stealing our wealth don’t talked too big with us because in every bricks and crown in the infidels kingdom, there was always the wealth stolen from our countries and there’s also blood stained of our brother.
It is goods ideas if the Dutch want to deport and expell all muslim from there but Dutch also should not forget to return back the multi billion $ had been stolen from here and paid compensation to hundred thousands our countrymen had been killed by them during 350 years of the Christian Dutch criminal time in here.
cuk
It is that type of thinking that made you a victim in the first place , You guys are all the same you are all victims of society ohh as for the part about doing business remember all you islamic countries have is oil that is only by chance you have no other industries or anything else to offer the world but strife. I can hardly wait to hear what you have to say when we march on Iran in a couple of months maybe they will put up more of a fight than Iraq did !! so my friend maybe youtoo will have your chance at martadom
take care
rupertIs that clear Sir?
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@Aluang Anak Bayang
Pork is haram to Overseas Muslims does not mean it is haram to us; majority don’t mind eating them
Can you tell me what kind of Qu’ran you read? Is there a special Indonesian version/translation of the Qu’ran? My Muslim friends (“Overseas” Muslims) showed me why they cannot eat pork, it was stated quite clear in the Qu’ran.
Qu’ran 2: 173 (Yusuf Ali translation):
He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful.I don’t read Arabic bit I have checked other translations as well, swine flesh is a no-no.
majority don’t mind eating them
Didn’t Allah mind eating pork? Otherwise he wouldn’t have put it in the Qu’ran, wouldn’t he? Personally I don’t mind Muslims eating pork, it’s just surprising you take this issue so lightly while “Overseas” Muslims take this issue quite serious. My Muslim friends don’t dare questioning the Qu’ran.
Aluang, what about alcohol? Halal or Haram? What do drink with your babi guling?When I read the Qu’ran I never see notes that some verses don’t apply to Indonesians. But as said earlier I am only familiar with non-Indonesian Muslims , and they take the Qu’ran quite literally, so pork = haram.
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@ rupert
… all you islamic countries have is oil that is only by chance…
LOL
I can hardly wait to hear what you have to say when we march on Iran in a couple of months
Declaring war on peaceful Muslims, ehh?
@ Robert
Qu’ran 2: 173 clearly states that pork is halal if you eat them when forced by necessity in this case when one is hungry.
Of course alcohol is haram, but if one repent after consuming it, Allah is oft-forgiving Most Merciful.
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Bob says:
400 years ago the Dutch started to move away from the crippling and debilitating influence of the Roman Catholic Church. Book printing and literacy made it possible for each individual to form opinions and not just copy those preached by the Church. Society made sure that everybody, no matter how simple, was able to express their opinions with no repercussion other than maybe ridicule. Fast forward to the 21st century and enter 1 million Muslims, that either haven’t learned to form opinions or are too afraid to express them.
The Dutch would like to know who they are sharing the table with every day, but they are only getting statements from officials, not the majority of individual Muslims. In an attempt to at last provoke a reaction this simplistic and generalizing movie was made. Please tell us: WHO ARE YOU? WHAT DO YOU THINK? WHERE ARE YOU AT? Are you with a 1400 year old book, enticing violence against non-Muslims and promoting to ignore individual rights of non-male Muslims within your own community or what? We want to hear YOUR opinion not what your Imam tells you to say or think.
No matter how crude or simplistic this video is (I’m afraid a lot of people won’t be able to get past), it is posing a valid and fundamental question that will hopefully contribute to a rise in human consciousness not only in the Netherlands.
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Bob said:
400 years ago the Dutch started to move away from the crippling and debilitating influence of the Roman Catholic Church. Book printing and literacy made it possible for each individual to form opinions and not just copy those preached by the Church. Society made sure that everybody, no matter how simple, was able to express their opinions with no repercussion other than maybe ridicule. Fast forward to the 21st century and enter 1 million Muslims, that either haven’t learned to form opinions or are too afraid to express them.
400 years ago the Dutch started to move away from the crippling and debilitating influence of the Roman Catholic Church and based on strict Protestantism they practised colonialization and slave trading for decades to come. Not so fast to the 21st century.
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Qu’ran 2: 173 clearly states that pork is halal if you eat them when forced by necessity in this case when one is hungry.
Of course alcohol is haram, but if one repent after consuming it, Allah is oft-forgiving Most Merciful.
how convient i guess killing works the same way
right Aluang Anak Bayang
god Iam happy I live in the USA where wrong is wrong not just convient -
Olaf says:
Where is the Islamic world outrage to the countless beheadings and mutilations over the years? Where is the condemnation to all of the world atrocities being committed in the name of Islam? Where is the Islamic world outrage to human suffering? Where is it?
Islamic voices are conspicuously silent. Why? Because Geert Wilders is 100% right.
I am sick of cowering to Islamic Evil – There is no other way to discribe such a world wide cancer. Islam is Evil. We who bow down to it are cowards.Who are we? Who are we? Are we free men, or cowards? Wake up people – Islam, together with our weakness, equals death.
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Cukurungan says:
cuk
It is that type of thinking that made you a victim in the first place , You guys are all the same you are all victims of society ohh as for the part about doing business remember all you islamic countries have is oil that is only by chance you have no other industries or anything else to offer the world but strife.I am not victim of anything I just want to teach you how to see something from the wider picture because the problem is not only the Muslim who make living in the infidel countries but there is also the infidels who seek benefit from the dumbness of the Muslim countries.
Speaking about the oil business, I feel jealousy on your tone we asked to God to give us a business that allow us more time to pray, song Qasidah and practice martial arts just in case. But it is your own dumbness to depend on our oil so blame your self not us.
I can hardly wait to hear what you have to say when we march on Iran in a couple of months maybe they will put up more of a fight than Iraq did !! so my friend maybe youtoo will have your chance at martadom
take careHa..ha..ha the infidels would only dare to attack a bankrupt and very weak countries like Iraq, Somalia and Afghanistan and the infidels army only capable to defeat the stone age warrior like the red Indian and Aboriginal warrior but they can do nothing to eliminate a few hundred al-Qaeda fighter even the infidels has been using more than hundred thousand modern army equipped with the multi billion dollar weaponry .. sad”¦ sad.
As I said before that your nuke and weaponry might be working to frighten Japanese Samurai and Nazi German”¦.but..not for our warrior like Mas Aluang Anak Bayang and Bli Dewagederatuanom.
Now, I can sleep well because Mas Aluang and Bli Dewa will take care the front line against the infidels while my self just get ready behind the front line to take care their widow in case those two gentlemen are death in the battle field.
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Ha..ha..ha the infidels would only dare to attack a bankrupt and very weak countries like Iraq, Somalia and Afghanistan and the infidels army only capable to defeat the stone age warrior like the red Indian and Aboriginal warrior but they can do nothing to eliminate a few hundred al-Qaeda fighter even the infidels has been using more than hundred thousand modern army equipped with the multi billion dollar weaponry .. sad”¦ sad.
As I said before that your nuke and weaponry might be working to frighten Japanese Samurai and Nazi German”¦.but..not for our warrior like Mas Aluang Anak Bayang and Bli Dewagederatuanom.
Now, I can sleep well because Mas Aluang and Bli Dewa will take care the front line against the infidels while my self just get ready behind the front line to take care their widow in case those two gentlemen are death in the battle field.
CUK
hey thanks man i needed a good laugh to day when we went to afghanistan the taliban ran like rats to hide in caves. Your great hero Osama was hiding with them also and is still running like a rat , coward that he is as for Iraq you should get your facts straight Iraq HAD the 3rd largest army in the world it took us the infidels 2 weeks to destroy it . Cuk we have faced evil in the past and we won all the conflicts Islam is not evil just the fanatics that want blood are the one that preech Jihad are. as for Alqueda they are cowards they hide behind women and children . If they werent they would put on a soldiers uniform and meet us like men on the battlefield. but of course that would take the hearth of a warrior cowards dont have that in them what a shame for arabs around the world to have there religion governed by cowards
good luck Cuk god bless -
@ Sheikh Cuk
Now, I can sleep well because Mas Aluang and Bli Dewa will take care the front line against the infidels while my self just get ready behind the front line to take care their widow in case those two gentlemen are death in the battle field.
I am surprised you decided to join our rank? What happened? Darn, so you are not leaving your wife to us while you seek Jihad matyrdom. This is very unIslamic, brother. I suggest you rethink your position. Planning and directing had always been for smart Javanese Muslims like me.
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J Generic says:
Everything that was presented in Fitna actually happened. So I contened it’s the truth in this documentary that has caused such an “uproar”. I for one am glad to be an “infidel”. I want no part of this blatant intolerance. There’s no room on this planet in this day and age for a group that believes they have the right and duty to kill others based solely on their religious beliefs.
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Mohamed F says:
2 weeks ago on a protestmarch against Wilders in Amsterdam 1 guy was arested for discrimination.
He was carrying sings with quotes of Wilders, but has replaced the word “Muslims” with “jews“………………………….. -
Teng says:
2 weeks ago on a protestmarch against Wilders in Amsterdam 1 guy was arested for discrimination.
He was carrying sings with quotes of Wilders, but has replaced the word “Muslims” with “jews””¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦..Yeah, that was absolutely ridiculous. I don’t think he actually got charged though… but still.
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Well, SBY officially banned the movie and Wilders is barred from access to Indonesia.
From Metro TV Online:
Metrotvnews.com, Jakarta: Presiden Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono secara resmi melarang penayangan film Fitna di Indonesia. Presiden juga memerintahkan Kementerian Hukum dan Hak Asasi Manusia untuk mencekal Geert Wilders, politisi Belanda yang juga pembuat film tersebut apabila berkunjung ke Indonesia. Demikian disampaikan Presiden Yudhoyono di Kantor Kepresidenan, Jakarta, Senin (31/3).Meski demikian, kepada masyarakat Indonesia, Presiden Yudhoyono meminta tidak melakukan cara-cara kekerasan dan aksi-aksi sweeping terhadap warga Belanda di Indonesia. Fitna adalah sebuah film yang berisi pandangan negatif terhadap kitab suci Al-Qur’an.
Sementara itu Wakil Jaksa Agung Mochtar Arifin menyatakan pemerintah dan aparat penegak hukum akan mengambil langlah-langkah untuk mencegah masuknya film Fitna. Hal itu dilakukan dengan membatasi peredaran film itu di dalam negeri melalui jaringan internet.(BEY)
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Andrew says:
Presiden juga memerintahkan Kementerian Hukum dan Hak Asasi Manusia untuk mencekal Geert Wilders, politisi Belanda yang juga pembuat film tersebut apabila berkunjung ke Indonesia
Poor Geert Wilders, now he can’t visit the beautiful and peaceful country of Indonesia. He will regret it for the rest of his life. LOL.
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Tommy Ray says:
“400 years ago the Dutch started to move away from the crippling and debilitating influence of the Roman Catholic Church and based on strict Protestantism they practised colonialization and slave trading for decades to come. Not so fast to the 21st century.”
There was slavery across the world. European people were the first to stop its practice.
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Dear Rupert,
Rats are much better than the infidels who shooting un-armed a backward people such as a Red Indian and aboriginal just for fun and take over their land.
And my hero is not Osama Bin Laden but Aluang Anak Bayang, you can see by your self on his gravatar even only his moustache could make the infidels self orgasm.Iraq at that time was only bankrupt country with very low quality army after 10 years embargo and even during the Iraq Golden Time (I meant when Saddam was still under payroll CIA), their army could not defeat the bankrupt Iran after revolution where you get the Iraq the third largest army. You may too much watching Rambo Movie.
No one believe your fabrication story that the infidels army hesitate to kill children and women anyone can see in Hadittha case and numerous case that involved the infidels
deliberately kill and f**k boy and woman for fun. The bottom line is your trillion dollar army is worth nothing against few hundred gangsters.Btw, I would like to inform you that Al-qaeda and Ahmadinejad was very grateful with American People who already spent trillion dollars and sacrificing life of the poor American people to give Al-qaeda the best breeding center and give the Iraq Oil to the Iran control for free.
Regard,
Your Beloved Friend
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Andy says:
If muslims want the world to be sympathetic towards them they have to see things from both points of view. For example how many of those outraged Indonesian muslims felt anything negative towards Abu Bakar Bashir when he delivered a hate speech to young muslims in East Java and incited violence recently. It seems they want things all their way.
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susan says:
This is a good chance for all Muslims to prove that they are not as bad as Wilders understands, that Islam is a peaceful religion, that mostly Muslims are mature in their faith.
Violently protesting and anarchically judging or attacking whoever and whatever christian alike will only prove Wilders gets his point. -
@Aluang Anak Bayang:
Qu’ran 2: 173 clearly states that pork is halal if you eat them when forced by necessity in this case when one is hungry.
Of course alcohol is haram, but if one repent after consuming it, Allah is oft-forgiving Most MercifulWhat a coincidence that whenever you are hungry, only pork is available, this must be tough for you. If you don’t drink alcohol in the first place you don’t need to repent at all, according to my Muslim friends. But as I mentioned earlier they take their religion very serious and don’t fool around with it.
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The Information ministry is planning to block YouTube unless they take down Fitna, within two days (from April 1st)
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/04/01/asia/AS-GEN-Indonesia-Quran-Film.php. -
@Andrew,
Poor Geert Wilders, now he can’t visit the beautiful and peaceful country of Indonesia. He will regret it for the rest of his life. LOL.
Indeed Sir! Death threats don’t bother Geert Wilders anymore, but being persona non grata in Indonesia will absolutely devastate him. Probably he will have pulled all the hairs from his head, when he heard the news he can’t enter his beloved Indonesia anymore. So this this years holiday will probably be in Morocco or Turkey where he will receive a warm welcome. LOL.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
Lairedion
Well, SBY officially banned the movie and Wilders is barred from access to Indonesia.
Patung
The Information ministry is planning to block YouTube unless they take down Fitna, within two days (from April 1st)
Spasms of an expiring breed. After the Reconquista of the Great Empire of Majapahit Geert Wilders will be appointed as Minister of Information. He will be addressed officially by his vassal SBY and the entire DPR as Paduka Yang Mulia.
For those less familiar with Indonesian etiquette paduka means shoe, mulia means noble, sublime, lofty. I leave the rest for your imagination.Bangunlah Indonesia. Majapahit will rule again. Merdeka!
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John says:
Halal Jihad is quite right. This film is not fiction, it represents the modern face of militant Islam, full of hatred and threats. I agree that this sort of perverted hatred is dished up in Mosques and Madrassahs all around the world, wherever Muslims congregate. This stuff has not been invented by Wilders. He is simply holding a torch to illuminate some of the evils being carried out in the name of God.
Isn’t it interesting that Muhammad preached that “all men were equal in the sight of God”. He also called Jews and Christians, as well as Muslims, “al-e-kitab”.
The disease of militant Islam is threatening to spread through Europe. It will be defeated, of course, as was Fascism, Communism and Irish Republicanism. The onward progress of secularism cannot be halted. I predict within the next two generations, much of the world will be rid of the suffocating blanket of religion, thanks to the advance of education, liberal thinking and television, and the defeat of ignorance and repression. Witchcraft, superstition and the belief in the supernatural will be banished. Everyone will benefit but particularly Muslims because of all the religions, this is the one that suffocates its followers the most and causes most misery and suffering.
Wilders is merely a foot soldier in this process but deserves our thanks.
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