Fitna by Geert Wilders
Mar 7th, 2008, in Opinion, by LairedionLairedion on the gathering storm over Geert Wilders’ upcoming anti-Islam film “Fitna”.
Tensions are rising as Dutch controversial MP Geert Wilders is about to reveal his anti-Quran movie Fitna. How will Indonesian Muslims respond to the next “insult” on Islam, shortly after the second Danish cartoon controversy?
Since his emergence in Dutch politics Geert Wilders has gained much attention and support for his fierce anti-Islam and anti-immigration stances. In line with contemporary right-wing politicians his message seems simple yet appealing and his voice is loud. Deport criminal and illegal foreigners, stop the Islamization of Dutch society (prohibit construction of new mosques, refusing all Muslims from moving to and living in Holland), sell the Dutch Antilles to the highest offer on a Dutch auction website and much of the problems are solved.
So far his party PVV (Freedom Party) managed to win 9 seats in the last elections but opinion polls show they can count on 15 seats at least or even more if elections are hold right now. But his “crusade” comes with a price. Like so many critics of Islam he is constantly under the threat of being murdered and needs to be guarded 24/7 and lives on a secret location.
Geert Wilders.
Geert Wilders, who has some Indonesian blood running through his veins, wants to show the world Al-Quran is a fascist and violent book, in line with Hitler’s Mein Kampf, and must be banned. It will be interesting to see how Wilders can dismiss a book, considered holy by 1.3 billion people, as fascist in a movie of 15 minutes, while ulama’s and clerics have been studying Al-Quran for centuries and up until now are having trouble to come to an unified explanation and interpretation.
But what’s all the fuss about? So far it has only been speculation and the movie hasn’t been broadcasted yet.
Anyway the Netherlands is pretty much in a state of alert. The Dutch government is preparing for the worst-case scenario (retaliation, violence and damage towards Dutch citizens, economic interests and enterprises, terrorist attacks). On the other side many people are criticizing the Dutch government for exaggerating any potential dangers and impacts caused by this movie. An interesting sign is that Dutch Muslims seem to grow mature and sensible in their reactions towards insults to Islam. The last Danish cartoon controversy didn’t spark any violence or significant protest in Holland and this movie will be just the next insult, meant to provoke reactions and violence so that Wilders can prove his points and not worthy paying any attention.
The worldwide reaction probably will be different. Recovering from the latest Danish cartoon controversy, Muslims worldwide are preparing for the next Western “assault” on Islam. Politicians in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran are urging the Dutch government to prohibit the broadcast and last week some 200 Indonesian Muslims staged a protest outside the Dutch Embassy in Jakarta.
Where does the freedom of speech crosses the line and turns into discrimination thus violating article 1 of the Dutch Constitution where discrimination of people on their gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, political view or any other ground is prohibited? This is the same article Wilders is referring to by branding Al-Quran as fascist.
It is not known yet when the movie will go online. So far Wilders has stated the move is finished and he is negotiating a broadcast with Dutch TV stations but this is likely to fail as none of them want to burn their fingers. 28 March 2008 could be a possible date. For anyone interested bookmark www.fitnathemovie.com in your favorites.
415 Comments on “Fitna by Geert Wilders”
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Cukurungan says:
My friends the solution is simple for all our muslim brothers in Europe and north America. You would be more comfortable living in a muslim country. You would be more comfortable living in a muslim country. there are many around world egypt , syria , sauadi Arabia , Yemen far to many for me to name here. So my muslim brother go and knock on your fellow muslim countries doors. I am sure the will welcome you with open arms and minds go live in peace. Don’t bother to live with the infedels they have too much pork in all their foods anyway leave europe it’s not worth it living with dogs ( infedels) north America is filled with whores and jews. So again I plead for the sake of your happyness the Middleast my brother is the answer bagdad or bust my brothers.
go in peace yes please go!!!To make the solution working even better, all the infidels should also leave all muslim countries and So my infidels brother go and knock on your fellow infidels countries doors.You would be more comfortable living in a infidels country. I am sure the will welcome you with open arms and minds go live in peace.
Don’t bother to live and make business with the Muslim they are all terrorist and ready to kill you anytime soon and they have too much hatred and violence anyway leave Muslim Countries it’s not worth it living with the terrorist and north America is also belonging to the indigenous Red Indian Tribes so leave there also the white infidels should go back to their original nest in Europe. go in peace yes please go!!!!
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mark says:
It is interesting and yet disturbing to see that the word ‘infidel’ is yet again used… Indoctrination in its purest form… a true demonstration of the scary face of religion. And still some are surprised by the words by Wilders??? It is however good to see that some have the courage and strength to look inside themselves, and truely judge by means of their own convictions, and not by the guidance of religion. I myself am dutch and live in the netherlands, and do not truely oppose nor abide by the words by Wilders. I do however think that merely by the reaction towards the assumption of an anticipated movie, Wilders has made a stronger point than any true airing of a movie could ever make. Frankly, in my eyes a true demonstration of faith would be not to care so much about what others say and think about your religion. It almost comes across as insecurity about one’s faith when every instance of critique must be grasped to retaliate in extreme measures and ways. When faith would be purely individual as I believe it should be, one would not be thrown off so easily by what others think.
If only people would mind themselves a bit more.
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Rupert says:
To make the solution working even better, all the infidels should also leave all muslim countries and So my infidels brother go and knock on your fellow infidels countries doors.You would be more comfortable living in a infidels country. I am sure the will welcome you with open arms and minds go live in peace.
Don’t bother to live and make business with the Muslim they are all terrorist and ready to kill you anytime soon and they have too much hatred and violence anyway leave Muslim Countries it’s not worth it living with the terrorist and north America is also belonging to the indigenous Red Indian Tribes so leave there also the white infidels should go back to their original nest in Europe. go in peace yes please go!!!!
Cukurungan
I am sure that the American Indians are all to happy to have you as there advocate. But I think the american indians are very contented living in the good ol US of A. Indians don’t wage Jihad, they don’t blow them selves up and kill innocent people, you never heard of them flying planes into buildings with innocent people loosing their lives. We do know in fact that American indians we ther to defend their country in all the past conflicks so please don’t try to compare these proud people with the Islamic Terrorist .
Wait till we find an alternative to oil then what will you sell sand maybe! The sand market is way down!
Go in peace my muslim brother. -
Mohamed f says:
Well said Mark
Helemaal mee eens. -
Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Well said Cukurangan.
@ Rupert
Wait till we find an alternative to oil …
You are barking at the wrong tree. Sheikh Cuk is not Arab, he is Allah’s slave.
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I do however think that merely by the reaction towards the assumption of an anticipated movie, Wilders has made a stronger point than any true airing of a movie could ever make. Frankly, in my eyes a true demonstration of faith would be not to care so much about what others say and think about your religion.It almost comes across as insecurity about one’s faith when every instance of critique must be grasped to retaliate in extreme measures and ways.
You are wrong brother this is not about insecurity but about this is about our dignity…ok …let me make it simple…we Muslim will not care about Wilder movie if he launch the movie along with picture of naked death body of his own parent”¦hence”¦he will be free from our punishment”¦because in our belief the sick people shall not be subjected to any rule and law.
Cukurungan
I am sure that the American Indians are all to happy to have you as there advocate. But I think the american indians are very contented living in the good ol US of A.Yes agree that the American Indian are happly living under protection by the white infidels in the restricted area like exotic animal while sniffing methaphine until death.
Indians don’t wage Jihad, they don’t blow them selves up and kill innocent people, you never heard of them flying planes into buildings with innocent people loosing their lives. We do know in fact that American indians we ther to defend their country in all the past conflicks so please don’t try to compare these proud people with the Islamic Terrorist .
That was the reason why the white infidels can easily crush the american indian because the red indian does not have a workable strategy againts the fire power of the white infidels but when time come and there is enough Red Indian embrace in Islam we will transfer the Jihad Way to them hence you will be in big trouble.
Do not talk b***s**t about the killing innocent because the number babies and boys and women killed by the islam terorist is still a nano size compared to number of babies and boys and women killed by the white infidels in the indiscriminate bombing of Hirosima, Nagasaki, Hanoi and Baghdad while the clock is still ticking.
Wait till we find an alternative to oil then what will you sell sand maybe! The sand market is way down!
Go in peace my muslim brotherI let you know that the alternative for oil is still being negotitated between Mr Dick Cheney and King Saudi but the outcome would be the same that the white infidels is destined to wash the arab foot to get an alternative for the oil.
Go for oil my infidel brother. -
Luciano the One says:
Why all the fuss.. lets all make peace and love together..
just check “Benny Lava” on youtube 🙂
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@ Luciano the One
Why all the fuss .. lets all make peace and love together..
You are the most disgusting and immoral infidels. Those who do not contribute to Jihad are doomed for hell fire. Allah swt had clearly stated that there won’t be peace until the whole world become Darul-Islam.
Q2:10
“As for those who deny Islam…they shall be the faggots for the Fire of Hell.”Q8:39
“Fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam”Q61:4
“Surely Allah loves those who fight in His cause.”There are dozens more similar verses. I wonder which part of the verses you do not understand. Luciano, it is still not too late for you to join the Mujaheddin (Army of Allah) and be a Martyr. A small contribution but huge eternal rewards, that is a promise.
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Robert says:
@Cukurungan
north America is also belonging to the indigenous Red Indian Tribes so leave there also the white infidels should go back to their original nest in Europe,
Does this only apply to Red Indian tribes or also to other native tribes? If so, the Americans and Indonesians should also leave West-Papua and return to their original nest and leave West-Papua to the Papuans then.
Do not talk b***s**t about the killing innocent because the number babies and boys and women killed by the islam terorist is still a nano size compared to number of babies and boys and women killed by the white infidels in the indiscriminate bombing of Hirosima, Nagasaki, Hanoi and Baghdad while the clock is still ticking.
Why refer to Vietnam and Japan? Hasn’t there been plenty of bloodshed on Indonesian soil? 1965-66 mass killing, conflicts in Aceh, East-Timur, West-Papua and sectarian violence in Maluku, Sulawesi.
If you are so concerned with white infidel behaviour why do Indonesian Muslims behave like them? Or do you consider all these killings also nano-size? -
dewaratugedeanom says:
Cukurungan said
“¦north America is also belonging to the indigenous Red Indian Tribes”¦
Interesting statement.
What gives people the right to claim a territory as their own, considering the fact that the history of mankind on this planet has been one of constant migration? And how and to what extent does one define territory? Does it include everything beneath the surface and if so to what depth? Does it include the space above it as well as the clouds floating by? Does it include all wildlife, sedentary as well as trekking?Is the right to claim a territory based on
“¢ the mere fact of being born in a particular place?
“¢ having cultivated the place to provide shelter, livelihood and culture and to what extent?
“¢ the ability to secure and defend the place against transgressors?
“¢ historical claims because forefathers have been dwelling there?
“¢ any other criteria? -
Riyoz says:
“Cukurungan
I am sure that the American Indians are all to happy to have you as there advocate. But I think the american indians are very contented living in the good ol US of A. Indians don’t wage Jihad, they don’t blow them selves up and kill innocent people, you never heard of them flying planes into buildings with innocent people loosing their lives. We do know in fact that American indians we ther to defend their country in all the past conflicks so please don’t try to compare these proud people with the Islamic Terrorist .
Wait till we find an alternative to oil then what will you sell sand maybe! The sand market is way down!
Go in peace my muslim brother.”hmmm…they didn’t do those things coz’ your colonilalists ancestors and their ‘manifet destiny’ type of logic, have broken them hundreds of years ago….when they butchered the native americans, grab their ancestral lands and throw them into reservations…
This is an example….
The Sand Creek Massacre National Historic site, 160 miles southeast of Denver on Big Sandy Creek in Kiowa County, pays tribute to those killed in the November 29, 1864, attack, CNN reported.
Seeking revenge for the killings of several settlers by Indians, 700 militia members slaughtered nearly everyone in the village. Most were women or children.
Descendants of some of the victims were among several hundred people at Saturday’s dedication on the rolling hills of the southeastern Colorado plains. A mock village of a dozen tepees was set up in a grove of cottonwood trees along the creek that historians believe marks the site of the killings.
“It’s a site of shame, but it’s finally being memorialized properly,” said David Halaas, a former state historian.
Eyewitness accounts of the attack include a letter from Lieutenant Joseph Cranmer who wrote “A squaw ripped open and a child taken from her. Little children shot while begging for their lives.”
“If there were any savages that day, it was not the Indian people,” said former Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell, a Republican from Colorado who is a member of the Northern Cheyenne tribe, reflecting on the massacre.
and yet another…
Take the example of George Washington thinking of and referring to Indians as “savages” and “beasts.” In 1783, Washington wrote that, “the gradual extension of our settlements will as certainly cause the savage, as the wolf, to retire.” By retire he meant, move away or be killed. Both “the savage” and “the wolf” were described by Washington as, “beasts of prey, tho’ they differ in shape.” This is an example of Washington using the imaginative power of thought in a dehumanizing, and, arguably, pathological manner.
Cognitive theory posits that how we conceive (think) of something predetermines how we will behave toward that thing. Thus, the imaginative American conception of Indians as “beasts of prey” led to very specific kinds of pathological behavior consistent with that mental image (thought, or idea).
For example, American troops “” at Washington’s instruction “” carried out a scorched earth policy against the Seneca Nation by destroying entire towns and vast food supplies. In some cases, American troops skinned the bodies of the Seneca people who had been killed. The troops would skin the bodies “from the hips downward to make boot tops or leggings.” Since the Seneca killed were imagined or conceived of as “beasts,” they could, without any twinge of American conscience, be skinned like wild beasts.
Greed was a powerful motive for this kind of thought and behavior towards the Seneca and other Native nations: Millions of acres of land and all the material wealth those lands represented. Genocide can be good for business.
If a child kills cats and blows up frogs with firecrackers, is this the sign of a balanced and well-adjusted human being? Or is such behavior indicative of deep emotional and perhaps mental pathology? Serial killers often start out with these “small killings” and eventually begin killing other human beings. The pathology that the future serial killer exhibits in childhood becomes fully manifested in heinous acts of murder in adulthood.
By way of analogy, during its “infancy” and “youth” the United States started out killing off Indians, while compulsively stealing massive amounts of lands and resources from Native nations. Over the course of its entire lifespan the United States has continued to exhibit compulsive pathological behavior toward Native peoples.
Because the people of the United States understandably desire to view their country in a positive light, they tend to conveniently overlook or deny the U.S.’s reprehensible thought and behavior towards Native nations. The subject of U.S. genocide against American Indians is conveniently swept under the rug, so to speak, and in mainstream media we never see a discussion of the possibility of an American pathology towards Native nations and peoples. Being able to avoid this uncomfortable subject makes it a lot easier on those wishing to extol the virtues of the United States without contradiction.
When one thinks about it, it would seem that the American empire’s mental and behavioral pathology toward Native nations has passed through different phases.
One phase was the outright killing of Indians from the Ohio Valley to the gold fields of California, and everywhere in between. Another phase was the U.S.’s never-ending kleptomaniacal compulsion to steal Indian lands and resources. (Recent passage of the Western Shoshone bill is evidence that this phase is still ongoing). Yet another phase was the U.S.’s efforts to destroy the economic and political independence of Native nations, to destroy Native languages, cultures, and to destroy our ability to live our respective spiritual traditions in our sacred places. Is this compulsively destructive mentality and behavior toward Native peoples evidence that the U.S. society has a deep and underlying illness (pathology)? Or is it just “the American way,” along with apple pie and the American flag?
America’s pathological mentality and behavior toward Native nations has old cognitive roots that can be traced back many centuries. Take for example one of Cristobal Colon’s favorite passages from the Bible: “O clap your hands, all ye nations: shout unto God with the voice of joy, for the Lord is high, terrible: a great king over all the earth. He hath subdued the people under us: and the nations under our feet & God shall reign over the nations.”
From a Native perspective, one could say that applying the above way of thinking to indigenous peoples is pathological because it led to a brutal and hierarchical structuring of the physical and social world. Core metaphorical concepts in the above passage include the concept of “the Lord” being “high and terrible.” Those who subscribed to this viewpoint, felt justified in conducting themselves as European “lords” who were “high and terrible.” This attitude is exemplified by the Spaniards’ use of vicious dogs to hunt down Indians and tear them apart, or conquistadors cutting off an Indian’s hand for not “handing” the Spaniards an imposed quota of gold.
The metaphors in the above passage resulted in thinking of indigenous peoples as destined to be “subdued” because “the Lord “¦ hath subdued” them. Once they were viewed as destined to be “subdued,” the indigenous peoples were then also viewed as destined to exist forever “under” the representatives of “the Lord.” The Christian Europeans then viewed the indigenous peoples as existing “under” their “feet,” meaning, subject to Christian European authority. Many similar conceptual patterns form the basis of America’s present day pathological mentality and behavior towards Native nations and peoples. A “reality” constructed on the basis of such cognitive patterns is a “reality” of domination.
America’s mental and behavioral patterns of pathology toward Native nations generally remain at an unconscious level of awareness in society. This means that although these patterns do exist, the average person is usually oblivious to this fact. It is up to us to identify these cognitive and behavioral patterns of domination, and suggest what ought to be done about them.
http://www.bluecorncomics.com/destiny.htm
I’m sorry that I’ve to brought this all up..but my point is…Colonial Imperialism then and know…begets bloodsheds and miseries…Native americans, australian aboriginese people, palestinians, you name it…like what ward churchill say “Zionism, Manifest Destiny, and Nazi Lebensraumpolitik: Three Variations on a Common Theme”
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You are the most disgusting and immoral infidels. Those who do not contribute to Jihad are doomed for hell fire. Allah swt had clearly stated that there won’t be peace until the whole world become Darul-Islam.
Q2:10
“As for those who deny Islam”¦they shall be the faggots for the Fire of Hell.”Q8:39
“Fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam”Q61:4
“Surely Allah loves those who fight in His cause.”There are dozens more similar verses. I wonder which part of the verses you do not understand. Luciano, it is still not too late for you to join the Mujaheddin (Army of Allah) and be a Martyr. A small contribution but huge eternal rewards, that is a promise.
Why would you want to force someone to believe in Allah , do you really want false believers in your religion seems wrong to me . Anyways these frases sound satanic , nothing to be proud of, God (allah) creats life you have no right to kill only the devil wants you to destroy your fellow man . Read the bible my muslim brother it will enlighten you, you are also welcome to believe or not . Yes in the past we christians misguided as we were also tried to make people believe but it did not work, many died !!
correct me if iam wrong but i think it was your profit that said ” you can bring a camel to water but you cant make him drink it ” ponder this a while you will be enlightened
this is about sharing this planet with your fellow man in peace . Golda mahire said also “we will have peace with the arabs when the arabs start loving their children as much as we love ours ” how true
god bless -
“Why would you want to force someone to believe in Allah”
well as a matter of fact, Allah swt in surah Al Baqarah 2 : 256 stated “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.” Yap, it’s in the manual book :), we muslims are merely messengers and warners….and that we shouldn’t and mustn’t force people to believe in God !
Golda mahire ? Do you mean Golda Meir ? well, she has ‘other’ quotes you know ?…like
“There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist.”
so in her logic, the native palestinian villagers whose vilages were razed to the ground, massacred and expelled by the Zionists forces since 1948, simply does not exists !!
and…
“Any one who speaks in favor of bringing the Arab refugees back must also say how he expects to take the responsibility for it, if he is interested in the state of Israel. It is better that things are stated clearly and plainly: We shall not let this happen.”
that means, the natives of palestine are ban from returning to their homeland !! coz’ the zionist israelis won’t let them….
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Asif says:
Quran is the word of God and He has protected it for over 1400 years and we should leave it to Him to protect it further. Lets ignore this or any other form of hate display towards Islam. We should not forget that Quran does not allow us to hurt anyone or cause problems. We have the most civilized religion however due to the reactions by some ignorant muslims we get a bad reputation. Remember that “dogs bark as carvan passees “. Let them bark and we should pass this or any other such event very gracefully. We should only use civilized methods of making formal complaints to ban such material and do our best to inform the public about Islam and our Holy Book. We must answer back in thier format rather than showing any irrational though. This all may seem very ideal but that is the religion we aspire to so lets show them how real Islam and Quran responds to situations like these.
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Mansoor says:
Please stop this useless disscussion;
to Muslims; Hold faith, follow & work hrad, fatah is near InshaAllah,
yes Allah we hold his court in near future & decide each issue on merit, so please wait
& let them(non-muslims) do what they want. it will all be decided soon. -
Lairedion says:
Wilders’ website has been taken offline by its provider.
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Dr Alem says:
I spent years to become a qualified psychiatrist. (I am from a Muslim background though do not practice Islam).
I can confirm that lots of my patients see visions and hear voices of God like Mohammed did. I analysed the Koran psychoanalytically and dispassionately. Firm conclusions:
Mohammed had both psychosis and a paranoid personality.
The Koran was recorded by Arab poets who gave it a literary refinement.
Mohammed orders killing and raping of those who do not submit to Islam (kill non-believers; women captives of wars are your slaves), though orders peace among Muslims.
The hypocrisy is that he uses high moral percepts of ‘fairness’ and ‘Justice’ in order to justify massacres of ‘non-believers’, attacking caravans, mugging, rampaging and stealing calling what he stole as ‘booty’ offered by God.
He orders men to beat their wives if they do not submit to them.
The intolerance inherent in the Koran is linked directly to Mohammed’s psychosis and his unshakable delusion that his voices and visions meant he was a prophet.
It is a shame that Christians conducted the reformation and renaissance of christianity centuries ago, and even now them, not Muslim scholars, are risking their lives to promote he reformation of Islam. It’s time for Muslims to wake up and join the reformation.
The fact that the majority of Muslim are not terrorists does not mean the ideology is safe as, at some point in future, it could be used by thugs and psychopaths to destroy civilization. It is a fascist ideology as what motivated Mohammed deeply is the same as what motivated Hitler and the issues of God, religion or race are all pretexts in the service of power.
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I think Geert Wilders is one of the last real men in Europe. He’s speaking about the elephant in the room and that is the widespread violence that erupts from Muslim communities around the world. Consider the 50+ teachers in Thailand killed by Muslims, the problems in the Philipines, and then there is Europe and the murders there.
Why is it that Muslims appear not to be able to get along with anyone else. Or even with themselves. Perhaps it is because there is something deeply toxic with the Islamic narrative?
This question must be explored. Islam is a huge religion so this is not about some poor minorities, but rather whether what Geert Wilder’s says is true. If it is true, then non-Muslims around the world must unite in exposing the violence that is Islam and help non-practicing Muslims to have the freedom to leave the faith.
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Lairedion
Wilders’ website has been taken offline by its provider.
Which doesn’t mean the story has come to an end. This could be oil on the fire, and the clock keeps ticking.
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HItam TApi CIna says:
Asif Says:
Let them bark and we should pass this or any other such event very gracefully. We should only use civilized methods of making formal complaints to ban such material and do our best to inform the public about Islam and our Holy Book.If only more moslems think the way you think Asif.
Unfortunately many of them don’t share your moderate and intelligent view. Why not fight words with words, and movie with movie and show the world moslem’s true color.For those who choose to forge violence in response to the Wilders movie FITNA, shame on you. You are just as barbaric as any uncivilized prehistoric man, if you can still call yourself human. Try put yourself in others shoes. How would you feel if your father, brother, mother or sister is killed by some else?
Mansoor Says:
Please stop this useless disscussion;
to Muslims; Hold faith, follow & work hrad, fatah is near InshaAllah,
yes Allah we hold his court in near future & decide each issue on merit, so please wait
& let them(non-muslims) do what they want. it will all be decided soon.Agee, continuing this discussion is pointless.
This discussion only show that many of us do not respect human life. Justifying death to others based on difference in thought, idea, religion, race, not only classify you as absolutely inhuman but also deny you the right to use any religion as a cause for your horrifying action or thought.
Let us all reflect on ourselves on our own value. No matter what, killing will only create problems.
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dewaratugedeanom,
Of course this is not the end… Nor will it be one big April Fools Day joke.
Dr. Alem,
Great observation. Couldn’t agree with you more. Wilders published an article in a Dutch daily last Saturday. It’s too large to translate it and publish it completely because it deals with some local Dutch discussions and persons not relevant to Indonesia but there are some parts I will put down here and they confirm your view (and also mine) on Islam:
Indeed Islam has some religious characteristics (a supreme God, an afterlife) but the targets of Islam are here on Earth: implementation of sharia, world dominance, jihad, dhimmitude, apartheid against women and oppression and killing of non-Muslims. Islam is comprehensive from inheritance law to criminal law. That’s why it’s more a political ideology than a religion. It is important to set Islam apart from Muslims. Our problem lies with the ideology, not with the people.
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@Dr. Alem
“¦The fact that the majority of Muslim are not terrorists does not mean the ideology is safe as, at some point in future, it could be used by thugs and psychopaths to destroy civilization. It is a fascist ideology as what motivated Mohammed deeply is the same as what motivated Hitler and the issues of God, religion or race are all pretexts in the service of power.
Thank you for this clear, concise and dispassionate diagnosis.
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Dr Alem said:
I spent years to become a qualified psychiatrist. (I am from a Muslim background though do not practice Islam). I can confirm that lots of my patients see visions and hear voices of God like Mohammed did. I analysed the Koran psychoanalytically and dispassionately. Firm conclusions:
me :
There’s a million of people like your patient who claims himself can see or talk with God but it is only a few of them could transform their experience into a faith or religion in which could attract a billion followers.
Therefore your patient must be Abraham, Noah, Moses, Budha Gautama and Jesus.
If you need years to becomes a fake Dr I just need 2 second to prove that you are a mad man. I tell you that genius and freak are almost the same because both of them always think beyond a normal people but the genius can prove what he said whereas the mad man never proved anything just like you.
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Cuk said:
Therefore your patient must be Abraham, Noah, Moses, Budha Gautama and Jesus.
If you had paid attention while exploring other religions you would have noticed that in the teachings of Gautama Buddha a supreme God as the Creator of Heaven and Earths is absent and irrelevant, we called this non-theism.
I will issue a fatwa condemning you for putting Abraham, Noah, Moses and Jesus on the same level as Gautama Buddha. They’re not that good. 🙂
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“If you had paid attention while exploring other religions you would have noticed that in the teachings of Gautama Buddha a supreme God as the Creator of Heaven and Earths is absent and irrelevant, we called this non-theism.
I will issue a fatwa condemning you for putting Abraham, Noah, Moses and Jesus on the same level as Gautama Buddha. They’re not that good. :-)”
hmmm….if God’s absent and irrelevant, then who created this universe according to ‘Buddha’? Please, enlighten me.
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If you had paid attention while exploring other religions you would have noticed that in the teachings of Gautama Buddha a supreme God as the Creator of Heaven and Earths is absent and irrelevant, we called this non-theism.
I will issue a fatwa condemning you for putting Abraham, Noah, Moses and Jesus on the same level as Gautama Buddha. They’re not that good.
Brother please fly higher so you can see a wider scene, when God sent Buddha to earth God did not see any problem with human knowledge about His Existence but in other hand there was a big humanity issue. Therefore God decided to focus His teaching to Buddha about the humanity and live in harmony with nature while the issue of His existence will be conveyed to other messengers when so required.
In Quran God say:
[005:048] To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; -
Janma says:
The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
Is that right? Well, He hasn’t done that so far, And if and when he shows the truth how is anyone to know it’s the truth?
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hmmm”¦.if God’s absent and irrelevant, then who created this universe according to ‘Buddha’? Please, enlighten me.
Buddhism starts with the Four Noble Truths and not with God, the Creator of All. So there’s no answer to your question because your question is irrelevant.
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Brother please fly higher so you can see a wider scene, when God sent Buddha to earth God did not see any problem with human knowledge about His Existence but in other hand there was a big humanity issue. Therefore God decided to focus His teaching to Buddha about the humanity and live in harmony with nature while the issue of His existence will be conveyed to other messengers when so required.
Of course, people living in Buddha’s era already understood the concept of monotheism and already submitted to Allah en masse but had trouble how to live in harmony with nature.
Your statements are fun to read though. Keep on talking…. 🙂
Comment on “Fitna by Geert Wilders”.
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There are already signs of the damaging impacts of Fitna before it has been released yet.
Today Dutch media have published news articles on Will Boll, a Dutch film maker. In cooperation with an Indonesian production company Boll was in the process of making a DVD and a TV charity program by order of an Indonesian organization for blind people.
The production company has withdrawn because it fears backlashes and impacts as consequences. It is likely Boll will face severe financial damages (€ 130,000) and has hired well-known Dutch lawyer Gerard Spong to sue Wilders.