Fitna by Geert Wilders
Mar 7th, 2008, in Opinion, by LairedionLairedion on the gathering storm over Geert Wilders’ upcoming anti-Islam film “Fitna”.
Tensions are rising as Dutch controversial MP Geert Wilders is about to reveal his anti-Quran movie Fitna. How will Indonesian Muslims respond to the next “insult” on Islam, shortly after the second Danish cartoon controversy?
Since his emergence in Dutch politics Geert Wilders has gained much attention and support for his fierce anti-Islam and anti-immigration stances. In line with contemporary right-wing politicians his message seems simple yet appealing and his voice is loud. Deport criminal and illegal foreigners, stop the Islamization of Dutch society (prohibit construction of new mosques, refusing all Muslims from moving to and living in Holland), sell the Dutch Antilles to the highest offer on a Dutch auction website and much of the problems are solved.
So far his party PVV (Freedom Party) managed to win 9 seats in the last elections but opinion polls show they can count on 15 seats at least or even more if elections are hold right now. But his “crusade” comes with a price. Like so many critics of Islam he is constantly under the threat of being murdered and needs to be guarded 24/7 and lives on a secret location.
Geert Wilders.
Geert Wilders, who has some Indonesian blood running through his veins, wants to show the world Al-Quran is a fascist and violent book, in line with Hitler’s Mein Kampf, and must be banned. It will be interesting to see how Wilders can dismiss a book, considered holy by 1.3 billion people, as fascist in a movie of 15 minutes, while ulama’s and clerics have been studying Al-Quran for centuries and up until now are having trouble to come to an unified explanation and interpretation.
But what’s all the fuss about? So far it has only been speculation and the movie hasn’t been broadcasted yet.
Anyway the Netherlands is pretty much in a state of alert. The Dutch government is preparing for the worst-case scenario (retaliation, violence and damage towards Dutch citizens, economic interests and enterprises, terrorist attacks). On the other side many people are criticizing the Dutch government for exaggerating any potential dangers and impacts caused by this movie. An interesting sign is that Dutch Muslims seem to grow mature and sensible in their reactions towards insults to Islam. The last Danish cartoon controversy didn’t spark any violence or significant protest in Holland and this movie will be just the next insult, meant to provoke reactions and violence so that Wilders can prove his points and not worthy paying any attention.
The worldwide reaction probably will be different. Recovering from the latest Danish cartoon controversy, Muslims worldwide are preparing for the next Western “assault” on Islam. Politicians in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran are urging the Dutch government to prohibit the broadcast and last week some 200 Indonesian Muslims staged a protest outside the Dutch Embassy in Jakarta.
Where does the freedom of speech crosses the line and turns into discrimination thus violating article 1 of the Dutch Constitution where discrimination of people on their gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, political view or any other ground is prohibited? This is the same article Wilders is referring to by branding Al-Quran as fascist.
It is not known yet when the movie will go online. So far Wilders has stated the move is finished and he is negotiating a broadcast with Dutch TV stations but this is likely to fail as none of them want to burn their fingers. 28 March 2008 could be a possible date. For anyone interested bookmark www.fitnathemovie.com in your favorites.
415 Comments on “Fitna by Geert Wilders”
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Erlem says:
So in short, Oigal and Riyoz, there are too many arguments for this and that. We know too little about what happened, and about what happens. So many people lie and twist, the whole subject is a mess. History is very valuable but not for its facts.
Whatever happened is no excuse for what happens. And what happens we simply don’t know. Maybe something to worry about. Sometime later, when i run out of beer.
I don’t understand all these quests for money and power anyway. People say they want a swimming pool in their backyard, i say i have a swimming pool in the city for the price of a ticket, and it even includes fun people.I don’t understand any of the ruckus this movie causes either. It has very little to do with people outside Holland, a minuscule country. There were even some people burning the Dutch flag in Jalalabad. And where on earth is Jalalabad? I don’t even know anyone there. While i appreciate their efforts to help the flag industry prosper i can’t help but wonder whether the Blue-helmets will say “hey no need to thank for trying to help You out, we had a fun time but if You start burning our flag we’ll go have a drink with Erlem instead.”
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
@ Erlem
What argument? Islam is the One True Religion for all Mankind. Allah swt confirmed it in his Al-Quran. All other religions are hocus pocus. As God fearing people, we have to protect what Allah swt from insults; and Jihad is the way.
Peace.
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Aluang said:
we have to protect what Allah swt from insults; and Jihad is the way.
If allah is God, he should be “insults proof” and he will need nobody to protect him. You make your allah looks so “POWERLESS”. Have a peaceful day!
Shalom & Blessings
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Teng says:
The most disturbing for muslims in holland is that he is supported by almost 1 milion voters.
A bit over 500.000 to be exact (9 seats of 150), although that number could grow during next elections. However you also see a larger group getting rather sick and tired of him, so it also could be less than the current amount of votes for him.
I think the outcome will really depend on the way the muslim community reacts to his stupid movie. If they react calmly…. he will most certainly lose votes. If the riots start and people get killed (I don’t think in Holland but maybe other nations) then the support will increase a lot, because then he has proven his “point”
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Ah Aluang Anak Bayang,
that is very interesting.
Nobody can ‘disprove’ a religion. In that regard, there is nothing to be said. No argument. Not by me, not by the movie. In that regard, there is nothing to fear either.
What many people do dislike and want to change, and I hope You can understand this as well, is all the bloodshed and pain dealt in the name of truth, or a religion.Now I read no books (I am unable to read books) I only hear say.
And in all honesty what caught my attention is religious books, be they true or not, have had all kinds of explanations and interpretations from different people.
That’s why I’m being very careful here, i don’t want people to get the wrong impression from my words.It makes me wonder, and I’ll ask You:
Are You certain, are You sure that we are meant to rid us of insults through bloodshed and punishment? Or are there other possibilities?
The Jihad, I hear a lot about it, but all kinds of things that contradict.
So I ask, is it true Jihad stands for the physical holy war, or is it also a possibility Jihad stands for another kind of holy struggle? A war of reasoning, of pure belief instead of bodies?I’m asking in all respect because I simply don’t understand how bloodshed and pain are the best ways of convincing people how to live their life. That is all.
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Prove Jihad is by bloodshed and pain. Here are 2 examples. I can provide you hundreds but I have meeting in a short time
Our beloved Prophet Mohammad pbuh ordered the beheading of all Jew from Bani Quraiza. The verse Q33:26 confirms that Muhammad did slew some of the Bani Quraiza.
Our beloved had Kinana the filthy Jew tortured to death for not revealing his hidden treasure. Then our merciful Propher pbuh consumed the marriage with Kinana’s beautiful wife on that same day. Here is the authentic hadith.
“Kinana al-Rabi, who had the custody of the treasure of Banu Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says “was brought”), to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, “Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?” He said “Yes”. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr Al-Awwam, “Torture him until you extract what he has.” So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud.”
Allah swt had make it clear that the only way to make stubborn non-believers behave is through pain and suffering. Tell me why do Allah sent in tsunamis, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. For the comfort of his slaves.
Peace.
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Allah swt had make it clear that the only way to make stubborn non-believers behave is through pain and suffering. Tell me why do Allah sent in tsunamis, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. For the comfort of his slaves?
Peace.
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Cukurungan says:
What argument? Islam is the One True Religion for all Mankind. Allah swt confirmed it in his Al-Quran. All other religions are hocus pocus. As God fearing people, we have to protect what Allah swt from insults; and Jihad is the way.
Mas Aluang,
Are you serious? If so when you already decided to go on your Jihad War, do not forget to inform me so if you death in those war I can take care your widow ASAP.
salam,
Your Brown Brother -
Ross says:
Of course it would be outrageous to suppress Wilders’ film. If it incorrectly quotes from the Koran, then there is plenty of oil money about to make a movie rebutting the misrepresentations.
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Jacob says:
In my opinion Wilders is implicitly focussing on extremist people who want to repress others and expressing this by focussing on the Quran. The bible as well makes statements which no one in his right state of mind would take literally by today’s standards.
Let’s see what he wants to show us first.Meanwhile, I recommend listening to what Pat Condell has to say: google video
He is following a lot of Wilders’s lines, but puts them in perspective later in his speech. -
Riyoz says:
“Man o Man”¦They got you bad, where do you get your information from..again not waiting to drawn into your little world where everyone who questions your dubious version of facts is automatically a zionist (what is that anyway?) supporter”¦
“982 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.” really how many of those we killed by the various Palestinian (your word) factions, bombers and loons or is that another list that doesn’t get published in your world
Hamas vs “¦vs”¦vs”¦. and we have not even got to Israel yet//
1,031 Israelis and at least 4,528 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.
as above
During Fiscal Year 2007, the U.S. gave more than $6.8 million per day to Israel and $0.3 million per day to the Palestinians Really”¦mmm based on ..never mind not important ..and their caring Arab brothers gave (you know the ones with the $26000USD a night hotel rooms)?
The Israeli unemployment rate is 9%, while the Palestinian unemployment is estimated at 40%.
How can this be?..their Arab Muslim brothers are earning suillions every day and importing foreign labout by the boat load both skilled and unskilled”¦picking a trend here yet?
Ok lets just play fantasy world for a second.. tomorrow Israel is magically moved to ..someplace else.. and in 20 years there is peace, milk and honey in the Middle East..yea right!
Peace would only come with a degree of maturity that does not even exist”¦besides the Palestinians serve a purpose for the rest of the Arab world and the nutters just they way they are and there is no intention in the Arab/Muslim world to change that”
Naah…you’re not a humanist, I was wrong to think that you are one…naah, I think you are just another skeptic….and possibly an “anti-semite”….hehehehe 🙂
“Religion counter works rationality?
So I as a faithful person who can divide between spiritual believe
and factual based thinking have no religious quality?No religion can be bad – it is only the person who abuses it.
And there are many who simply cannot use their brain cells and think
for their own.What did Marx say: Religion is the opium for the mass. Sadly this is
sometimes very true.”I agree, sir”¦.it’s all about balance”¦.regarding Marx’s statement, perhaps it’s true considering the history of the European dark ages”¦.
“Do you hope Muslims are smart enough or are you worried Wilders may have some valid points?”
Smart enough of course”¦.perhaps some will upload a rebbutal if needed”¦:)
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Hello Aluang Anak Bayang,
thank You for replying.
As I do not seek a discussion on here I say beforehand this will be my last reply, though I will read whatever is written afterwards. So You can have the last word.You say there is much evidence to the Jihad involving bloodshed and pain.
I have but two final questions.
Do You mean the method of Jihad is bloodshed and pain exclusively? So, that there is no other way?
And is it possible this method of Jihad changes: that bloodshed and pain may have been the way to deal with ignorant people in the past, but that it has changed for the present, or will change in the future?
Again only out of interest since so many lives are at stake. I’m not looking for discussion or for insulting any mans beliefs or way of living.Bye byes.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
Mr/Mrs. Riyoz seems to have a penchant for statistics.
Here’s another statistic.
In 5 of his/her posts in this thread alone, which bears no reference to the Palestinian conflict, Mr/Mrs. Riyoz used 15 times the term ‘Zionist’.Seems more like an obsession or an attempt to use a popular blog as a platform for his/her personal agenda.
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Robert says:
@ Aluang Anak Bayang
You said:
As God fearing people, we have to protect what Allah swt from insults; and Jihad is the way.
Tell me why do Allah sent in tsunamis, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.
If Allah is so powerful he can send in tsunamis and earthquakes why would he need protection from Wilders insults? If Allah is so displeased with Wilders movie I expect that Allah will deal with Wilders soon. At a short notice we will hear about Wilders being swallowed by a tidal wave or being struck by lightning. Allah will teach this infidel a lesson!
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Murphy says:
Robert and Erlem, sorry to douse your fun, but I bet Aluang is laughing his ass off seeing you treat the cartoonish character that he presented (or pretended) so seriously.
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Johan says:
A bit of recent history:
In about 1966 I worked for this tomato farmer in Holland. His business was booming and he couldn’t find people to do his work. We used to work under glass in 45 degree heat. So he went to Turkey one day and came back with 16 healthy young Turks. He put these 16 people in a small house with 4 bunk beds to a small bedroom. And he gave them all a bicycle to go to work. It was about 10 Km from home to work. Non of these people had ever been on a bike. One almost drowned on the way to work when he ended up in a canal.
And these people were paid extremely low wages and had to work long hours. I remember the first Ramadan they were there. The boss knew nothing about Ramadan and fasting. They had to start work at 5 AM and finish at 9 PM. The Turks tried to fast but had to give up. And when the first one broke his fast, the others started fighting with him.
When these people became a bit established they brought their families over from Turkey.
So the so called “Islamisation” of Holland was brought on by (as always) economics.
I knew illegal Moroccan workers who were held in bondage (like slaves) by farmers for 10 dollars per week. They could not leave the farm for the fear of being arrested and repatriated.
In later years the problem was aggravated because the second and following generations of these people were never really accepted in Holland. They spoke Dutch and were Dutch but no, they were always Moroccans or Turks. And they didn’t belong in their father’s country any more either. Who can blame these people for seeking comfort in their own community ?
There is no doubt that this army of “guest workers” made an enormous contribution to the Dutch welfare state.
And now we have this aspiring fascist who plays on the stupidity of the general public in Holland with the aim of propelling himself into an even more lucrative political career.
It saddens me to see my friends of North African and Turkish decent suffer again.
It also saddens me to see insult hurled at good religious people who deserve so much better.
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Robert said:
If Allah is so powerful he can send in tsunamis and earthquakes why would he need protection from Wilders insults?me :
It doesn’t mean literally Allah need to be protected but as the God fearing people Mas Aluang has to prove and show to the world’s that he is a jihad lovers so let wait and see that someday records of 9/11 would be broken by Mas Aluang strikes in the infidels land.
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Lairedion says:
Just watched a TV program from a Dutch Islamic broadcaster (NIO) who had a topic on the forthcoming movie. There was also an interview with a spokesman from the Indonesian Embassy, Siswo Pramono. He said the following:
1. Indonesia is satisfied with the efforts of the Dutch government to distance itself from Wilder’s movie.
2. He does expect protests once the movie has been shown but he believes the protests will be peaceful, based on experiences with Indonesian protests against the Danish cartoons.
3. It certainly won’t harm the relation between Indonesia and the Netherlands. Dutch tourists and trade are very important to Indonesia. Indonesia will do whatever it takes to protect Dutch nationals and interests in Indonesia.
4. He already checked the website as he’s eager to watch the movie. Before that no judgment can me made. If the movie is violating Dutch law Indonesia is confident Wilders will be dealt with according to Dutch law.
Being a diplomat his statements are, of course, diplomatic. His mood was very relaxed and friendly and he seemed not to be worried at all by the movie and the subsequent possible impacts.
I particularly like his statement that nobody can judge the content of the movie if it hasn’t been shown yet.
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@ Cukurungan
Are you serious? If so when you already decided to go on your Jihad War, do not forget to inform me so if you death in those war I can take care your widow ASAP.
The widow will be from your side as I am the planner and you are the foot soldier. History had shown that Javanese always lead. Brother, you have a choice – you want me to take care of your widow, Javanese or Arab way?
@ Erlem
Are You certain, are You sure that we are meant to rid us of insults through bloodshed and punishment? Or are there other possibilities?
The Jihad, I hear a lot about it, but all kinds of things that contradict.
So I ask, is it true Jihad stands for the physical holy war, or is it also a possibility Jihad stands for another kind of holy struggle? A war of reasoning, of pure belief instead of bodies?What do you mean by YOU? You are pointing your finger at ME! It is the duty of ALL muslims to partake in jihad. Jihad another kind of holy struggle? The freaking Jews and the unholy infidels must be feeding you nonsense. Study the quran first before asking silly questions.
Our beloved Prophet raided merchant caravans, killed dirty Jews and kept their women with the blessing of Allah swt. Having sex with captured non-believer woman are halal. As long as anyone believe in hocus pocus, they are fair game.
@ Robert
If Allah is so powerful he can send in tsunamis and earthquakes why would he need protection from Wilders insults? If Allah is so displeased with Wilders movie I expect that Allah will deal with Wilders soon. At a short notice we will hear about Wilders being swallowed by a tidal wave or being struck by lightning. Allah will teach this infidel a lesson!
Allah swt had sent in tsunamis and earthquakes, didn’t you read the news? Of course Allah swt can turn Wilders into ape or swine by uttering “kun!”, but why should He do that? The more insults to Islam, the fastest it grows. It is 1.8 billion strong and expanding.
@ Murphy
Robert and Erlem, sorry to douse your fun, but I bet Aluang is laughing his ass off seeing you treat the cartoonish character that he presented (or pretended) so seriously.
You low life can only insult in the face of logic. Is that the best you can come up with?
@ Lairedion
There was also an interview with a spokesman from the Indonesian Embassy, Siswo Pramono. He said the following:
…Have you noticed the name, Siswo Pramono. A Javanese – another intelligent being. We are cultured people. I told you so. 🙂
Salam.
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@Aluang Anak Bayang
Have you noticed the name, Siswo Pramono. A Javanese – another intelligent being. We are cultured people. I told you so.
I knew you would respond this way. 😉
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Sylvester says:
You guys really have a long discussion here.
Making me more interested to see this movie. -
The widow will be from your side as I am the planner and you are the foot soldier. History had shown that Javanese always lead. Brother, you have a choice – you want me to take care of your widow, Javanese or Arab way?
Brother the deal is not like that, I am only an ordinary man with strong muscle in my bottom side and I could not fight even with a little boy but I can handle more than one wife. Therefore, please go Jihad and do not worry about your wife because someone with the strong muscle would take care her.
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Johan said
They had to start work at 5 AM and finish at 9 PM. The Turks tried to fast but had to give up. And when the first one broke his fast, the others started fighting with him.
No wonder Wilders became islamophobe.
In later years the problem was aggravated because the second and following generations of these people were never really accepted in Holland. They spoke Dutch and were Dutch but no, they were always Moroccans or Turks. And they didn’t belong in their father’s country any more either. Who can blame these people for seeking comfort in their own community ?
There is no doubt that this army of “guest workers” made an enormous contribution to the Dutch welfare state.Sounds like the Chinese here in Indonesia, although they didn’t succeed in making Indonesia a welfare state.
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On Sunday 23rd March 2008, we can all “enjoy” the official UK English release of the Wilders’ film Fitna.
Why Easter anyone ?
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On Sunday 23rd March 2008, we can all “enjoy” the official UK English release of the Wilders’ film Fitna.
Either you are the first to know when the film is shown, or you are victim of a hoax. There is no date set yet when the movie is gonna be played. I think someone bought that co.uk domain and copied Wilders site and added the date… however if not you have a scoop…. and you really should post this everywhere 😉
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PS: Especially considering the domain http://www.fitnathemovie.com was registered by “Geert Wilders” and http://www.fitnathemovie.co.uk was registered to “Los Bol” which roughly translates to “Wild/crazy dude”
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“On Sunday 23rd March 2008, we can all “enjoy” the official UK English release of the Wilders’ film Fitna.
Why Easter anyone ?”
Why indeed….pure coincidence perhaps ?
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“Mr/Mrs. Riyoz seems to have a penchant for statistics.
Here’s another statistic.
In 5 of his/her posts in this thread alone, which bears no reference to the Palestinian conflict, Mr/Mrs. Riyoz used 15 times the term ‘Zionist’.Seems more like an obsession or an attempt to use a popular blog as a platform for his/her personal agenda.”
aren’t you all ? :)….
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Rupert says:
My friends the solution is simple for all our muslim brothers in Europe and north America. You would be more comfortable living in a muslim country. there are many around world egypt , syria , sauadi Arabia , Yemen far to many for me to name here. So my muslim brother go and knock on your fellow muslim countries doors. I am sure the will welcome you with open arms and minds go live in peace. Don’t bother to live with the infedels they have too much pork in all their foods anyway leave europe it’s not worth it living with dogs ( infedels) north America is filled with whores and jews. So again I plead for the sake of your happyness the Middleast my brother is the answer bagdad or bust my brothers.
go in peace yes please go!!!God bless and keep you on your journey.
Comment on “Fitna by Geert Wilders”.
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Wilders is an extremist.
The most disturbing for muslims in holland is that he is supported by almost 1 milion voters.
His oneliners are simple for many dutch people and the dutch press loves it. All he wants to do is provoce to, like in the wild west they used to challenge the other guy with insults until he drew his gun.
I have now already waisted my time on him .
Just ignore him, for he’s waiting for an excuse to shoot.