Fitna by Geert Wilders
Mar 7th, 2008, in Opinion, by LairedionLairedion on the gathering storm over Geert Wilders’ upcoming anti-Islam film “Fitna”.
Tensions are rising as Dutch controversial MP Geert Wilders is about to reveal his anti-Quran movie Fitna. How will Indonesian Muslims respond to the next “insult” on Islam, shortly after the second Danish cartoon controversy?
Since his emergence in Dutch politics Geert Wilders has gained much attention and support for his fierce anti-Islam and anti-immigration stances. In line with contemporary right-wing politicians his message seems simple yet appealing and his voice is loud. Deport criminal and illegal foreigners, stop the Islamization of Dutch society (prohibit construction of new mosques, refusing all Muslims from moving to and living in Holland), sell the Dutch Antilles to the highest offer on a Dutch auction website and much of the problems are solved.
So far his party PVV (Freedom Party) managed to win 9 seats in the last elections but opinion polls show they can count on 15 seats at least or even more if elections are hold right now. But his “crusade” comes with a price. Like so many critics of Islam he is constantly under the threat of being murdered and needs to be guarded 24/7 and lives on a secret location.
Geert Wilders.
Geert Wilders, who has some Indonesian blood running through his veins, wants to show the world Al-Quran is a fascist and violent book, in line with Hitler’s Mein Kampf, and must be banned. It will be interesting to see how Wilders can dismiss a book, considered holy by 1.3 billion people, as fascist in a movie of 15 minutes, while ulama’s and clerics have been studying Al-Quran for centuries and up until now are having trouble to come to an unified explanation and interpretation.
But what’s all the fuss about? So far it has only been speculation and the movie hasn’t been broadcasted yet.
Anyway the Netherlands is pretty much in a state of alert. The Dutch government is preparing for the worst-case scenario (retaliation, violence and damage towards Dutch citizens, economic interests and enterprises, terrorist attacks). On the other side many people are criticizing the Dutch government for exaggerating any potential dangers and impacts caused by this movie. An interesting sign is that Dutch Muslims seem to grow mature and sensible in their reactions towards insults to Islam. The last Danish cartoon controversy didn’t spark any violence or significant protest in Holland and this movie will be just the next insult, meant to provoke reactions and violence so that Wilders can prove his points and not worthy paying any attention.
The worldwide reaction probably will be different. Recovering from the latest Danish cartoon controversy, Muslims worldwide are preparing for the next Western “assault” on Islam. Politicians in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran are urging the Dutch government to prohibit the broadcast and last week some 200 Indonesian Muslims staged a protest outside the Dutch Embassy in Jakarta.
Where does the freedom of speech crosses the line and turns into discrimination thus violating article 1 of the Dutch Constitution where discrimination of people on their gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, political view or any other ground is prohibited? This is the same article Wilders is referring to by branding Al-Quran as fascist.
It is not known yet when the movie will go online. So far Wilders has stated the move is finished and he is negotiating a broadcast with Dutch TV stations but this is likely to fail as none of them want to burn their fingers. 28 March 2008 could be a possible date. For anyone interested bookmark www.fitnathemovie.com in your favorites.
415 Comments on “Fitna by Geert Wilders”
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Cukurungan says:
Cukurungan
My advice to you is not to believe the prophecies of Mr. Bush. I doubt that he can even spell the word Islam let alone express an opinion.Anyway Mr Bush is still President of US while you are just nothing
You ask for evidence of the hatred and vengeance contained in the Quran. You must read the book and you will find evidence in nearly every chapter. It is the document that is quoted by Islamists and Jihadists to justify their atrocities. If you do not have a copy of the Quran I can send you the address of a website with the Quran in English and Arabic, in a searchable format. It really is X certificate stuff. Don’t read it last thing at night!
I read Quran at least 17 times each day and I never find any single word in Quran which teach us to become the hatred and vengeance monger person. My understanding, Islam does not preach peace unconditionally but the Islam teaches us to love justice more than we love peace.
However, please be noted that I fully respect your opinion toward the Quran because your opinion is yours and my opinion is mine and no one get hurtEurope is free from book-censorship. The Quran is freely available. You can even obtain copies of “Mein Kampf “if you want to explore Hitler’s twisted mind. There is also freedom to practice whatever religion you wish, unlike most Islamic countries. Although there is a large minority in Britain who practice Islam, not many unbelievers convert. There are some Moslems who wish to leave the religion but these people are physically and verbally attacked by fellow Moslems and they receive death threats.l
Your word is a typical bigot word who has no shame to judge their self is good whereas the other is bad without evidence but you can not hide fact that Britain Civilizations was built upon starved to dead of 10 million the Hindu and Muslim India farmer and moreover I do hope that Diamond in Crown of UK is not diamond stolen from the someone else.
You are mistaken if you believe the two World Wars were religious wars. There are libraries full of books that will explain to you the historical context of these wars.
I never said that two World Wars were religious wars but you could not deny that those conflicts were mostly involving the people who claim their self as the Jesus follower.
By the way, what do you mean by a “Jesus Follower”. Do you mean a Christian? Do you prefer to call Moslems “Mohammed Followers”?
Sorry my mistake, the proper word for them should the Paul Follower because Jesus is Muslim who worship and submit to God while Christian is mysterious word for me because how can people who believe in divinity of Jesus and people who do not believe it claim their self is under the same umbrella of Christianity.
I would suggest that there is no honour in killing any innocent person, whether for fun or for hatred. What puzzles me is that your religion came from the same roots as the Jewish religion and Christianity. Why then all the hatred and bigotry? To an atheist like me, it is all just nonsense.
Friend, there is no single word in Quran verses that told the Muslim to hate the other belief yes I admit that annually we kill and slaughter more than millions of sheep not because we hate sheep but we need meat to fulfill our need and it is the same occasionally we kill the other but not because we hate them because we want to take back our land or wealth stolen by the other. Remember, we love peace but we love justice more than we love peace and for us War is more preferable than peace if there is no justice.
One final point: how can you know the whereabouts of your God, and whether She is up amongst the clouds watching you or what Her motives are? Does She give you daily bulletins? I think we should be told
Remember until now there is no man made equipment can see the limits of the universe while God is much bigger than Universe. Since 1400 year ago God told us that He will stay above the universe and watching from there that His Nature of Law is running according to His Plan because God already prescribed everything 50 thousand years before He created the universe.
Beyond the universe, God also created what we called as Heaven and Hell and at the moment both place is still empty and someday it will be loaded with billions human who ever live on earth and they will be qualified based on their respective deed alone as their final resting place.
The after life human is not the same again as we are now because God will re-create every human brain and body to the maximum capacity so the new human will be able to feel either the ultimate torment or happiness depend on their deeds alone.
Friend, the time is still on your side … please go and find Mosque and you know what to do. I tell you if I am wrong … there is no after life I will loss nothing except I miss enjoyment to f***k my wive friend and get drunk as you have… but if the after life is real you will be in big trouble not only during 90 years but forever. -
John Green says:
Cukurungan
I have to say that I found it very difficult to understand any of the points you were trying to make.
I recognise that I will never be able to change any of your beliefs and I certainly do not wish to. Likewise you will never convince me of the need to believe in a God or visit a Mosque.
My point is that there is no evidence for the belief in supernatural beings and it seems to me to be a ridiculous waste of time and energy to build a complex religion, that controls every aspect of one’s life, around the writings of an ancient prophet who claims to have had conversations with the Almighty.
There are many prophets alive today, many locked safely away in mental institutions. There are dozens in the USA, many of them leading religious cults with thousands of followers, often making predictions about the “coming of the Lord” or “the end of life on earth“.
I think we should accept the right of people to follow the teachings of these prophets, as long as these people do not interfere with others. I believe you have the right to follow the teachings of your prophet. The reason why your religion is criticised so much is the extend to which it tries to interfere with the lives of non-believers.
Do not worry yourself about my fate after death. I know that on my death I will no longer exist. That, I am sorry to tell you, will be your fate as well. There is no afterlife, no heaven, no 76 vestal virgins waiting for your arrival. Make the most of your life on earth; this is all there is.
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Cukurungan
I have just reread your last message and I’ve had an idea. Just in case you are wrong about the afterlife, why don’t you carryout your plan and f*ck your wife’s boy friend and then get drunk. You can always apologise to God afterwards and ask Her forgiveness. You know She is very forgiving and not at all vengeful!
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I have to say that I found it very difficult to understand any of the points you were trying to make.
I recognise that I will never be able to change any of your beliefs and I certainly do not wish to. Likewise you will never convince me of the need to believe in a God or visit a Mosque.I never try to convince and expect anything from you or anybody else because I fully believe that all human has free choice to act and to belief as they wish but it is nothing wrong to explain what is my belief and I have no intention or whatever to force anyone to belief what I belief even to my kid. And your case is not extraordinary one because more than 80% of 6 billions people on earth also do not believe in Islam.
My point is that there is no evidence for the belief in supernatural beings and it seems to me to be a ridiculous waste of time and energy to build a complex religion, that controls every aspect of one’s life, around the writings of an ancient prophet who claims to have had conversations with the Almighty.
I will not ask you Big thing such as Supernatural Being or God instead of I will ask you simple thing can you show me scientific evidence how either chicken or egg can exist by itself in the universe if you can show that then I may consider to change my belief and follow your pad to become an atheist.
If it is too difficult, I will ask you much simple thing to do, just find some blind people or idiot people and ask them to play Rubik’s Cube Puzzle, can you tell me how long or how many move required by those blind people can change Rubik’s Cube Puzzle from the tilted state to the solved state.
If it is proven that those blind/idiot people could solve Rubik’s Cube Puzzle with their random move, I will strongly consider to join in your rank ASAP, otherwise the theory of the universe can occurred by evolution or material self random action is likely baseless because the number of time and the number of the random move never cause anything to occur itself.There are many prophets alive today, many locked safely away in mental institutions. There are dozens in the USA, many of them leading religious cults with thousands of followers, often making predictions about the “coming of the Lord” or “the end of life on earth“.
They might be prophet for you but not for me because my prophet brought the wisdom and truth had been proven to change a few barbaric Arabic to become the world ruler more than 700 years and their legacy still survive until today while your prophet even could not escape from the US jail then how can you compare both of them.
The same wisdom also brought our ancestor to survive passing 350 years hardship under the infidel oppression and even our ancestor can kick the infidels back to their nest in the Holland. We believe it because we enjoy sweetness the fruition of our belief and the western people hate it because they feel sourness of the fruition of our belief.I think we should accept the right of people to follow the teachings of these prophets, as long as these people do not interfere with others. I believe you have the right to follow the teachings of your prophet. The reason why your religion is criticised so much is the extend to which it tries to interfere with the lives of non-believers.
If you want to believe 100% of the western media advertisement is up to you we do not care but there is clear fact that today no Islamic Armed Force occupied any single land belonging to the western world and Islam has no power to interfere other, the reason why Islam is criticized so much, it is not like what you said because at the moment, Islam is the only remaining religion dare challenge openly the western belief and culture system, and We very pride to declare that the Islam value totally does not match with the western world value because the Islamic value is based on the truth, justice and honesty while the western value based on double standard, cheating and liar.
Do not worry yourself about my fate after death. I know that on my death I will no longer exist. That, I am sorry to tell you, will be your fate as well. There is no afterlife, no heaven, no 76 vestal virgins waiting for your arrival. Make the most of your life on earth; this is all there is.
You also do not need to worry with my life because my life is so nice and so smooth, almost everything run as I wish and my belief does not give burden on my life. I have to confess that actually I am Master in seducing a woman no matter the kind of woman young, middle old woman, single lady or mid wife I can easily got I want from her and to be honest I also love f***king woman very much, therefore without my belief , it would be too many husband get hurt however with my belief, I have to expose my desire in proper manner and fortunately my belief still give me proper way out to cope with my issue and I work hard looking for big money so I can marry more than one woman legally without being charge in criminal case while in after life I hope that God will give me 76 vestal virgins. Therefore sorry at the moment I have no good reason to convert to atheist.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
Cukurungan said
The same wisdom also brought our ancestor to survive passing 350 years hardship under the infidel oppression and even our ancestor can kick the infidels back to their nest in the Holland.
Let me remind you that it were the Japanese who initially kicked the infidels out of Indonesia. After WW2 it was thanks to the UN who created the GOC (Good Offices Committee) and after the 2nd police action in 1948 it was under pressure of the Americans that the Dutch finally withdrew and transferred sovereignty over their colony (with the exception of western New Guinea) to an independent United States of Indonesia.
Imagine, Cukurungan, RI thanks its very existence to the support of those devilish white American infidels who slaughtered hundreds of millions natives. Now that you know there is nothing you can do except change your nationality or join the Reconquista of the great empire of Majapahit.
Hiduplah Nusantara. Majapahit will rule again. Merde! Merde! Merdeka!
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Dear My Little Brother,
Sorry for my late response, it seemed that Patung deliberately sabotage my post by making his website can not be accessed with my obsolete PDA phone, in the meantime I am still searching a beautiful rich widow who willing give me money to up-grade my PDA, as you may aware that Dewi Persik is not my taste while Bu Maia Achmad has not divorced yet with Pak Achmad Dhani.
Brother, please remember that we are not belonging to any nationality because our true nation is Justice and Truth while New Majapahit will be only small portion of this world where the justice and truth can be revealed.
It is also quite clear that you are still contaminated with the infidel mindset but no problem you may need longer time than the other convert to reset your mind. Fortunately, your big brother will help you slowly and patiently to reset your mind and transform it to new rebound mindset, let me begin a long journey to free your mind as below:Should we thanks to cows who provide us milk or should we thank to chicken who give us egg or should we thank to sheep who give us source of meat…of course nothing wrong if you want to thank to those Animals but as a Muslim we have a mandatory obligations to thank to God the creator of anything and not those animals because those animals has no intention to give us anything but God was given us privilege to use His other creature to perform our duties in spreading justice and truth around the Globe.
It is the same when “God Plan” create “Indonesia State” from above universe God ensure whatever the infidels plan it will be end-up with “Indonesia State”. It was began with God created a Scottish infidel his name is Mr. James Richardson Logan, He was the first person introducing “Indunesia” to this world for the cluster of Island in which before 1800 has so many name such as Swarna Bumi, Dwipantara, Chryse Chore or Gugusan Pulau Surgawi
The name established by Logan then further refined by other Germany infidel to become “Indonesia” as we know today and in the end those name inspired youth who live at those island to create a New Nation while existence Japan, US and UN in our history is part of God Big Scenario to create Indonesia and we do not need to thank upon them because what they were doing to this country is for their own cause not for our cause, Japanese kicked –out Dutch from here is not to liberate us but to protect their own interest while UN is created to preserve domination WWII winner countries and not for the cause of the third world people and GOC is created to save the Dutch infidels from embarrassment being defeated by the bamboo armies and not to save us therefore we do no need to thank to anybody except to GOD and anyone who help us based on genuine friendship and brotherhood.
Imagine, if our guerilla leader was not General Sudirman or Bung Tomo but King Buleleng / Klungkung or Gusti Ngurah Rai of Puputan War Commander and there is no question of braveness those Balinese Hero but they were all lack the wisdom and doctrine war against the infidels and due to their desperation in facing the advance machinery of the Dutch army those brave gentlemen was exposing him self and his Balinese warrior became shooting target the Dutch and finally they were easily wiped-out by from the earth.
Fortunately our ancestor was men who hold the wisdom and truth which teach each us submit to GOD only and not the infidels will therefore General Sudirman even He was so ill but he managed to keep his fighter survive and keep on fighting as long as He can and not exposing himself to become shooting target like our brother Buleleng/Klungkung Warrior.
Brother, I would like to remind you again and again that we are the muslim and Indonesian have no moral obligation or to thank to anybody except GOD ONLY while our ancestor have not leaving us the criminal legacy as the westerner has therefore be proud of your self.
Regards,
Your Beloved Brother -
rupert says:
CUK!
YOU HAVE A LOT TO SAY , thats a good thing so Cuk you complained that the name of your country was given by a european Cuk did you relize that your Religion was imported also , seems Foreigners have a lot of influience over Indoneisions Is that a good thing, I dont know! best think for yourselves
good luck Cuk
Rupert -
gigi says:
@ John Green:
My point is that there is no evidence for the belief in supernatural beings
Then can you prove or give any evidence that God didn’t exist? Here’s some simple analogies: Can you give any evidence about the human soul? Does it exists? Do you have a soul? If someone slap you in the face and you fill the pain, can you proof the existence of this feeling of pain to other people? Does ‘pain’ exist?
You see, things like that cannot explain those kind of things with material proofs. You can only feel it, you can feel the existence of God if your heart in ‘sensitive’ and humble enough. Billions of religious people on earth can feel His presence without ever seeing God, have you asked yourself why you couldn’t?
and it seems to me to be a ridiculous waste of time and energy to build a complex religion
Why indeed, why would those people go out of their way for such selfless pursuit? Have you ever considered that perhaps some Greater Power ordained them to do such things? I mean this is not a small project, most of them devoted almost all of their lives to upheld God’s religion, the way of life that God have prescribed for His creations.
@ rupert:
did you relize that your Religion was imported also
If you realize that religion is a gift from God for all humanity, I can’t see why would it be called as “imported”. In the case of Islam, it was a religion for all humanity to begin with. And since Allah SWT can’t just drop the Qur’an from the skies then He had to deliver it through a prophet, which in this case He chose a prophet from Arabia to deliver His message. His message knows no boundary.
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CUK!
YOU HAVE A LOT TO SAY , thats a good thing so Cuk you complained that the name of your country was given by a european Cuk did you relize that your Religion was imported also , seems Foreigners have a lot of influience over Indoneisions Is that a good thing, I dont know! best think for yourselves
good luck Cuk
RupertFriend we are not only import the religion but we are also import Automobile, Electronic Stuff, Vegetable sometime Women as well, but we prefer to import women from the region with less influence of the evil feminism such Shanghai, Uzbekistan and Russia and we do not need to import the women from Australia and US where feminism is on rising because those women is very eager to come here in order to enjoy as they wish to be enjoyed and to satisfy as they wish to be satisfied while in their home countries many of their husband are too busy on dreaming the sexual desire of their mother in law.
Friend come here and you can see by your own eye, how we run our country.
FYI, Indonesia is huge and diverse and not less complicated than US however even this country is still relatively young especially if it is compared with more 500 years old of US but we have been able to manage this country to become peaceful place for anyone even more peaceful than US see below: http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/rankings.php -
Shloka says:
gigi,
As for your example that God exists because the human soul exists, sure many people deny the existence of the “soul” too. As far as feeling pain is concerned, sure if someone slaps me, my nerves send a signal to my brain. Thus I know about the existence of pain as not only do I and every other animal on earth feels it but also,anatomists ad scientists have studied the brain and nervous system. I know how the brain gets a message from the nervous system not because of ” belief” but hardcore scientific evidence. Don’t get me wrong, I am a religious person too though I do not belong to your religion, its just that its unfair to judge people based on their belief or disbelief in God, either in this life or in the Hereafter.
While billions of people do indeed believe in God, there is a rising number of people who do not. A significant % of the Western World and Japan doesn’t. And most of the non believers are honest, good people. A majority of Nobel Prize winners including Steven Weinberg and Linus Pauling are unbelievers. They are good people, who have contributed to making life on Earth better, instead of focussing on the Hereafter. Is God going to judge them simply for disbelieving when He’s given them no proofs of His existence? Scientists after all, rely on proof. And if God indeed judges them harshly, not for any sins committed by them but simply for disbelief, why do we call him ” The All Compassionate, The All Merciful?”
Also while you as a Muslim and one fifth of the Earth’s population as Muslims belief in Mohammed(PBUH), one third of the earth’s population which is Christian believe Jesus is the Son of God. The Bahai’s believe their own Bahaullah is god’s last Prophet, not Mohammed. The Jews accepted neither Jesus nor Mohammed(PBUH). All the scientists of the world believe in the same Laws of Gravitation, while all the religions contradict each other. If God indeed judges humans based on their belief, don’t you think you might end up in Hell by following the wrong Faith? -
Is God going to judge them simply for disbelieving when He’s given them no proofs of His existence? Scientists after all, rely on proof.
Here below God unbroken challenge since 1400 years ago toward human/ atheist Scientists:
[022:073] O men! Here is a parable set forth! listen to it! Those on whom, besides God, ye call, cannot create (even) a fly, if they all met together for the purpose! and if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. Feeble are those who petition and those whom they petition!
It is very simple challenge just only create a fly so call all best scientists in the word to bust this God word and believe me billion of Muslim will convert to atheist if the scientist could break those challenge.
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@ Cuk,
Don’t be so sure just yet, scientists around the world are woring to create artificial life. Here’s what one says:“It’s going to be a big deal and everybody’s going to know about it,” said Mark Bedau, chief operating officer of ProtoLife of Venice, Italy, one of those in the race. “We’re talking about a technology that could change our world in pretty fundamental ways—in fact, in ways that are impossible to predict.”
That first cell of synthetic life—made from the basic chemicals in DNA—may not seem like much to non-scientists. For one thing, you’ll have to look in a microscope to see it.
“Creating protocells has the potential to shed new light on our place in the universe,” Bedau said. “This will remove one of the few fundamental mysteries about creation in the universe and our role.”
And what about the contradictory beliefs of Christians\Buddhists\Muslims\Bahais? Is the right religion based on the number of adherents, contribution to the world\longevity? -
Janma says:
so Cuk, why don’t you prove that God created the fly, since nobody saw him do it…… maybe I’ll just say… I DID IT! Worship ME! I am the great fly maker! bow down to me or I shall turn you to stools and you shall be but a cradle for my new flies……
I wonder how flies manage to avert all one thousand eyes when God addresses them??….
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so Cuk, why don’t you prove that God created the fly, since nobody saw him do it…… maybe I’ll just say… I DID IT! Worship ME! I am the great fly maker! bow down to me or I shall turn you to stools and you shall be but a cradle for my new flies……
Thank, it is a fair enough but before I worship you I need further prove that you are real God because my GOD is ([112:003] He begetteth not, nor is He begotten) so let us sleep together if within a month after that you do not get pregnant, I would strongly consider your offering.
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Cuk…… so you mean…. God is woman on birth control pills?
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While billions of people do indeed believe in God, there is a rising number of people who do not. A significant % of the Western World and Japan doesn’t.
make sense because Majority Religion (beyond Islam) in the Western World and Japan teach a concept of God that contradict with common sense
And most of the non believers are honest, good people. A majority of Nobel Prize winners including Steven Weinberg and Linus Pauling are unbelievers. They are good people, who have contributed to making life on Earth better, instead of focussing on the Hereafter.
A majority of Nobel Prize winners never make life on earth better instead of make live on earth getting worst. After the extensive application of the technology invention by the Nobel Prize winners, the human has been consuming the natural resources at the rate beyond the capability of the nature to replenish by them self. This means that the planet’s living stocks are being depleted faster than nature can regenerate them and causing the environment destruction everywhere.
Please also be noticed that most scientists are not Saints, they work to the other who can pay more not because of the humanity concern. Therefore, most scientific discovery mainly gives a tool for a few wealthy people to exploit the other less wealthy people, of course in their advertisement, it is wrapped nicely in the name humanity and it seemed working well at least on you but not us.
FYI, as we speak, there are many scientist in the western Laboratory are working hard to solve mystery of the avian flue vaccine …guess for what …Are those scientist so concern with well being of Indonesian, China, or Vietnam? … I believe you know the answer better than me. Therefore your statement that the noble prize winner is making life on earth better is not quite true.
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@ Cuk,
I am neither Western nor Christian, but the Western World are doing so much better than Muslim countries, and better than my country which is not majority Muslim. Japan and many Western nations have infant mortality rates of 3 per 1000 live births, WAY better than most Muslim countries. The Western World and Japan has much higher longevity, full or nearly full literacy and far less terrorism except terrorism by Muslim extremists. So seems like lack of belief in God hasn’t hurt them much. By the way Cuk, if scientists are such bad people, why use the Net? It was invented by a British Christian Tim Berners Lee, who left Christianity because he refused to believe in ” all sorts of unbelievable things”. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate religion or Islam, its just that, I don’t think its right to discriminate against non believers. -
@ Cuk,
I am neither Western nor Christian, but the Western World are doing so much better than Muslim countries, and better than my country which is not majority Muslim. Japan and many Western nations have infant mortality rates of 3 per 1000 live births, WAY better than most Muslim countries. The Western World and Japan has much higher longevity, full or nearly full literacy and far less terrorism except terrorism by Muslim extremistsDo not be so sure check below:
http://www.happyplanetindex.org/list.htmThe most Muslim countries is much better than the western world and Japan because we can life and consume from what our own territory can provide without put burden to the other people territory while the most western countries and Japan have to consume and exploit the resources from other people territory to fulfill their demand of natural resources, this is the main reason why US attacked IRAQ just to secure Oil not to save Iraqi People. In other word, the happiness in the western world is not without cost my girl, it is at cost misery of billion native people around the globe.
Muslim extremists in the western world just like a fly…it is very insignificant because the number of death caused by the terrorist bombing in the western word is very small compare to death people caused by obesity and suicide….the western should thank to terrorist at least, it was help them to make their suicide data look better.So seems like lack of belief in God hasn’t hurt them much. By the way Cuk, if scientists are such bad people, why use the Net? It was invented by a British Christian Tim Berners Lee, who left Christianity because he refused to believe in ” all sorts of unbelievable things”. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate religion or Islam, its just that, I don’t think its right to discriminate against non believers.
Our country already subsidized the western world more than 350 years, therefore, it is our full right to take and use anything what we want from them.
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@Cukurangan,
Sure, the U.S. attack of Iraq was unjust but how can you condoning terrorist bombings even if it is ” just like a fly?” The people who chose to become obese or commit suicide at least made a poor choice, its their fault they lost their lives,most of those who died in Muslim terrorist attacks did nothing to deserve that fate. Many were very young at the prime of their lives full of hopes and dreams for the future. Their lives were tragically cut short by some people who believed that they were actions as per Allah’s wishes. And okay America bombed Iraq and Afghanistan, what did people travelling on that train in Madrid do to deserve death? What did foreign tourists in Bali do? -
In other word, the happiness in the western world is not without cost my girl, it is at cost misery of billion native people around the globe.
So ‘Native’ governments are self sufficient and never use/take something from other countries? And why you call some people ‘native’ and the others not? western people are ‘native’ in their countries too you know… which by the way are full of natives of other countries.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
gigi Says:
May 9th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
I’m no rocket scientist, but it seems that this Aluang Anak Bayang character is an Islam hater guising himself as a Muslim and uttering sarcasms along the way. Another coward in the likes of the proverb “lempar batu sembunyi tangan”.A labia-less woman being a rocket scientist? That must be world first. LOL
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Andy says:
Wonder what the islamists who protested about this think of the latest FPI scandal? Feel free guys to post on that forum on this site.
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You know…. Fitna could almost be an educational video for Al Qaeda operatives…. it’s just context really. If you watch it and you think a kafir put it out it seems to criticize the Al Quran, because it’s clear Kafir do not go for terrorism. But if Al Qaeda put it out it would seem to be proof of righteousness of their activities.
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Thing is nothing in this movie is false. They have had chances to condemn terrorism but most have blown it since 9/11 and Bali. Time for muslims to stand up and say they support or condemn terrorism in all it’s forms.
Isn’t hard really.
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Serge Rochon says:
I live in the us. Where can this movie be seen? is it on a website? can it be ordered? One should watch it to make his own mind.
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Don says:
Do you hope Muslims are smart enough or are you worried Wilders may have some valid points?
interesting
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Thing is nothing in this movie is false. They have had chances to condemn terrorism but most have blown it since 9/11 and Bali. Time for muslims to stand up and say they support or condemn terrorism in all it’s forms.
Isn’t hard really.
It is not hard but unnecessary because how come we should condemn a tiny terrorism committed by an amateur terrorist while a mega terrorism run by some states can continue with impunity.
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Odinius says:
I mostly feel bad for the millions of Muslims, in Indonesia, Europe and elsewhere, who do not subscribe the the version of Islam that both Muslim and non-Muslim bigots claim is the only game in town. They are stuck between two groups of small-minded jerks who pile it on them, either for being the “wrong” kind of Muslim, or sharing a vast and diverse faith with people whose views are far more extreme.
These millions and millions of people are caught in the middle. The Islamic extremists and extremist Islam-bashers should get a room already! 😉
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barry prima says:
They have had chances to condemn terrorism but most have blown it since 9/11 and Bali. Time for muslims to stand up and say they support or condemn terrorism in all it’s forms.
Who is they?Muslims are not homogenous entity,much as youd like us to be.Millons of muslims everyday speak out against terrorism,the quran explicitly forbids it.What more do u want?
Actually we know what you want,wether you admit it or not.You want the muslims to give up their stupid religion.Not gonna happen,better get use to it.Indians don’t wage Jihad, they don’t blow them selves up and kill innocent people, you never heard of them flying planes into buildings with innocent people loosing their lives.
They waged many jihads,and raped much white ass.Every once in a while (usually under the influence of the white mans liquor)they went went on pale face killing frenzies too,But because they were often too busy fighting themselves and began worshiping idols,the power or wakan tanka was not with them
The muslims however, are not going to be such a pushover.Its a shame they didnt have flying planes,the would have nuked uncle sams army without a seconds thought.Suicidal missions into enemy territory,was a most noble thing in the eyes of the red man!
I dont know of muslims flying planes into buildings either,i thought it was the fbi who does those kind of things as a pretext for starting a new world order.As for those who deny Islam”¦they shall be the faggots for the Fire of Hell.”
The word Islam what does it mean?It means Submission to the will of god.So the closer literal meaning is he who denies that deliverance comes only thorugh grace of god,only achievable by submission will be a fagoot of hell.Interesting use of the word faggot .Does that mean he is going to be gang raped by prison inmates in hell,ala the mexiacan mafia or the aryan brotherhood?
Englsih transalations,of isolated verses,without an apprecaiation of the nature of the quran leads to absurdities,which rupert bears all over the world take much delight in
What or who is god?What is heaven and hell?What does it mean to deny?What is the will of god and how does one submit?Whats is the nature of self,as this has to be know before one can submit?
There is a whole semantic field around this one line ,that has preoccupied muslim mystics and theologans for centruries, and you my dear friend think a casual look in an english transalation has found the true meaning?
Get over your self.I spent years to become a qualified psychiatrist.
So you have nice little box to put the prophet inside and can now file him away under crackpot.Nice and convenient .Case closed.Except the case isnt closed for a billion people and they count alot more than your theories which only appeal to eggheads who think the same as you.Your insignificant and so are your findings.
I analysed the Koran psychoanalytically and dispassionately.
Its like saying you made love without passion and didnt get an orgasm,what do u expect?I bet your lousy in Bed too.
You wasted your time.Read it with humility and with heart,from a part of your being that you pschoanalytical maps cannot chart.It will reveal itself to you only then.even if only a little.
The quran is like Beautiful woman,hidden behind a veil,she may often repel you on purpose,because she knows you are not worthy of her or you have bad intentions towards her from the start..If you try to force yourself on her she will never give you her heart,although outwardly you might posses her body..
However,if you approach her with humility,kindness and excercise patience with her,little by little she will show herself to you.Why is it that Muslims appear not to be able to get along with anyone else.
Because idiots like you make comments like this about them.Muslims fight with each other and amongst themselves in no greater degree than others.The mongols almost destroyed the islamic world,but in the end they became muslims Their is no hatred of Mongols in the muslim world,in fact their is a grudging admiration.
In indonesia,the muslims integrated with the indigenous culture on its own terms.The absurdity is that many of the pioneer muslimns in Indonesia were Chinese.Why were they integrated and not the contemporary chinese.?
Muslims can get along with others as much as others get on with them,it works both ways.Right now, the muslim world feels a need to assert itself as it is being persecuted.In fact it has been persecuted and disenfranchised since the wider expansion of western imperialism 4 hundered years ago.Somone as historically uneducated as you would properly have said something like this 20 years ago `why cant the russians or the chinese get on with anyone else’?
in the teachings of Gautama Buddha a supreme God as the Creator of Heaven and Earths is absent and irrelevant, we called this non-theism.
Why is is then that every Buddhist i know who is Asian ,including monks belives in god.So does the Dalai Lama.Only Western Buddhist take great pains to emphaise this no god principle.
Non theistic,does not mean aetheistic.Buddhist concepts reflect the impersonal absolute,as opposed to the personal absolute.Buddhism emphsises something other than grace as the vehicle to enlightenment,thats why its harder than the other religions.Even then the way of grace via shingon/pure land/kwan im is present in Buddhism.
The Islamic view of the supreme ,is the meeting point between the anthropomorphic god of relgions like christianity and the impersonal aboslute void found in Taoism,some sects of Buddhism and Hinduism.God is both impersonal and personal,he has a form but not a form that can be contained with the structure of forms that are comprehensible by the mind.He is far,but closer to you than your jugular vein.In Islam Allahis manifest through his 99 attributes,which include both feminine (merciful,loving,patient,) but also masculine (wrathful,avenger,humiliator, avenger etc.)The view attributed generally to Buddhism only reflects one dimension of perciving reality (of course if you go deeper into buddhism it becomes complicated and theirs lots of gods and godesses).The islamic concept explaines the creator in his totality.
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Gigi
You miss my point. There is no evidence at all for the belief in God. God does not exist. Only blind faith can create the fantasy world that you describe. In the absence of any evidence for God’s existence, my question to you is: why do you believe? Does God whisper in your ear. Does She explain to you her motives and her rules for life that you describe? I think we need to know. What is the basis for your belief? Is it simply wishful thinking? Think about it.
The purpose of life is simple and clear. It is to survive and to procreate. No more, no less. This is the driving force behind all forms of life, from the primitive mono-cellular creatures that formed in the primordial soup to the most complicated animal of all, homo sapiens. This is what drives evolution. This is responsible for the world as we know it.
Sorry, gigi, it has got nothing to do with God, Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy.