Corporal Punishment
Dec 3rd, 2007, in News, Opinion, by RossRoss worries that western do-gooders are trying to have spanking and caning outlawed.
Another remarkable sign of how Third World countries are being coerced and cajoled into accepting decadent drivel from the West appeared in the Jakarta Post 20/11. The frontpage article began with an exhortation to parents not to pinch or slap their children and to report any other parent whom they saw committing these heinous sins.
At a time when even the Brown “Nanny State” regime in the UK has thrown out calls for a ban on parental “smacking”, why on earth should Indonesian mums and dads be told not to give their kids a good slap when they step out of line? Children, and indeed adults, seldom get through life successfully on the basis of self-discipline alone. You only need to watch Jakarta’s traffic to see how quickly the mask of civilisation would slip if no penalties awaited transgressors.
And getting a neighbour nabbed by cops because she smacks an unruly child is true totalitarian stuff – surely unwelcome on top of the cretinous “raids” by official snooper-goons on hotels to catch unwed couples?
This ‘no pinching’ command apparently came from the oddly-titled Minister for Women’s Empowerment, (a title surely taken straight from one of the Gender Studies pseudo-disciplines currently proliferating in Anglo-Saxon universities). Ms. Meutia Hatta Swasono may reflect Jakarta Post-type opinion but many Indonesian women must have raised their eye-brows at such an Orwellian attitude. (I say Orwellian not because George Orwell held such views- he may have done but was generally a sensible sort of socialist – but because of the Big Brother mentality the lady displays). It echoes a similar report about six months ago – or was it the same report, dredged up again by the permissivists of the UN and their local hangers-on?
Teachers too got some stick. Surely, faced with rowdy or obnoxious pupils, a teacher should not have to fear some snooper reporting him or her if the miscreant gets a whack with a cane or a belt, as happened in England and Scotland respectively until John Major’s government u-turned on the issue of corporal punishment in schools, under duress from the clowns on the European Court. (Major himself had voted only a year or so previously to keep the cane but did a jelly-fish act when his Euro-Lords issued their proclamation.) British schools are now chaotic, teachers up against it (though it’s hard to pity them too much, since their left-led unions egged on the permissive policies which led to teacher disarmament).
In September last year, Charles Gray, the Labour bigwig who master-minded Strathclyde’s abolition of corporal punishment in the schools of Scotland’s largest region, admitted that the upsurge of indiscipline which followed was a result of this folly. But because of the British establishment’s obsequious obeisance to “Europe”, there is no political will to reverse the disastrous process.
And the horrors of many inner-city USA schools are all too well known. There too, for a long time now, “reading and writing and ‘rithmetic, all to the tune of the hickory stick” has been a song all but forgotten. But the report contained much that was even more shocking -appalling, might be a better word.
Okay, so the West is going down the tube, but now we have this UNICEF character laying down the law to Indonesia. Gianfranco Rotiglianoa is all worked up because 80% of teachers here “have practiced physical punishment or conducted verbal abuse against children”. Absurdly, these comments are served up in an article that includes matters of genuine concern such as bullying and “sexual abuse, forced marriage and violent treatment by care-takers”, as if there were any moral equivalence between such outrages and wise parental discipline or “verbal abuse”, i.e. teachers calling a stupid young lout just that, a stupid young lout.
Sexual abuse of children is in fact something for which physical punishment should be formally prescribed. I abhor the sharia brutes in Aceh who administer “hukum cambuk” on working men who play cards for a few rupiah or on teens who enjoy a cuddle behind closed doors, yet it is not the nature of the punishment that is offensive but the offences for which it is meted out.
Birching or flogging are entirely appropriate responses to the frequent cases of child sexploitation, incestuous rape or sodomy reported on tv’s crime programmes. Some might say whippings are not harsh enough. A death sentence for the foreign perv who got only ten years after his conviction a year or so ago would have been salutary. But then the European Union would have been as vociferous to save his skin as they are to safeguard the lives of vermin like Amrozi, or as Amnesty International has been to stop the welcome execution of drug-dealers. The West in its present decadent deformation has nothing to teach Indonesia.
Equally, the shameful bullying uncovered in the state institute (IPDN) should in no way be compared with short sharp shocks administered by conscientious parents and/or teachers. If anything, the behaviour of the louts who killed young Cliff Muntu is testimony to the failure of their parents to instil forcefully into them a modicum of common decency, much as the young scumbag who got a pitiful five years for shooting dead a harmless waiter in the Jakarta Hilton might not have been such a moral vacuum had his parents given him the occasional sound thrashing. It is tempting to speculate that even Tommy might have emerged as a decent human being had old Pak Harto laid into him now and then.
Too many Indonesian urchins bawl and yell and ill-use their housekeepers, mannerless clods before they reach high school. The last thing needed is some damn-fool busy-body like Rotigliano seeking to persecute parents who might tumble to the fact that they are rearing slobs and take belated action to curb their brats’ anti-social tendencies. (Alas, there are also delinquent parents, like that high-level hoodlum who ran amok at JIS’ sports event a few years back. Did JIS fight to have him prosecuted for his thuggery? It all went quiet on that case, but one hopes that such a respected institution took all steps it could to have the man dealt with severely.)
However, there are undoubtedly many Indonesian parents who do want their young to be well-behaved and who understand that “to spare the rod is to spoil the child”. To be told that “pinching and slapping your children is not acceptable – and it’s your responsibility to report others who do” is not just illegitimate interference in parental rights, it is a recipe for a next generation of unbridled irresponsibility.
38 Comments on “Corporal Punishment”
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Achmad Sudarsono says:
Rossy-Poo,
* On pedophelia. Well, Ross, it’s just not really that controversial. 99.9 % (hopefully more) of people I know think it’s so nasty and twisted that the word “pedophilia” is a byword for mental illness and perversion. Saying “pedophilia’s bad,” is a bit like saying, “hitting grannies is bad,” or “stealing money from five-year olds,” is bad. So, ok, Ross: pedophelia’s bad. Happy ?
* On your writing, only onebook quoted and one article.
Article: “Politics and the English Language” by George Orwell.
Book: “Fowlers Guide to English Usage” by Fowler.
Please read them. Please.
Another couple of tips:
Supercilious: Ross, Ross, sunshine. Have you learned nothing ? Supercilious is a wanky, academic word, you’ve thrown in there to sound smarter. Ross, Ross, old boy, it’s the substance of an argument, not its window-dressing, that makes it compelling.
Nefarious crimes.: This is like “heinous sins.” Just say crimes, Ross. Don’t clutter up the sentence.
Happy to “debate” more once you’ve got on top of the few of the basics of communications.
Achmad.
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P.S. Ross, just as Martin Luther King said some White men couldn’t take a Black man telling them how to be civilized, I don’t think you can take the truth – or language tips – from me, a Brown Man.
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Ross says:
Not quite- just find Indonesians polite, and can discuss without obscenities like w***y and w****er, nor do they make a habit of ignorant allegations about antagonists and decline to apologise when corrected.
You are glib, probably good enough to sell used cars, but hardly literate or educated enough to tell anyone how to communicate. I would be embarrassed if my posts were on the pedantic, nit-picking level that most of yours seem to be, though to be fair I see why that’s easier than rational argument.
Name-dropping, Orwell or Arendt, is not a substitute for debate, and besides I suspect most people have read more books, (in my case, all of Orwell’s, because they are fun to read) than you, judging from the shallowness of your input. Pick up some history or philosophy to read over the holidays.
Nefarious, by the way, like heinous, indicates a degree of seriousness in the crimes referred to, eg. a fine for double parking may be an offence, but it is neither heinous nor nefarious, whereas defamation of character, such as you delight in, is more heinous, indeed nefarious. Buy a dictionary; I’m sure you can afford it. -
Ross,
What’s there to debate ? You worked yourself up into a frenzy over the right to spank children. It’s not as if there is a shortage of other problems to worry about in Indonesia. Um, let’s think, the problems of a young democracy that’s trying to revive its economy, for start. There’s that little meeting in Bali this week, of course.
Here’s the debate: Some people think it’s ok to spank children. Some people don’t. Most people agree it’s not a good idea, if you do issue a light smack now and then, not to do it too hard. It’s hardly a case of “decadent” western practices being forced upon the Third World. There are just bigger things going on the world, Rossy.
Mastering intermediate English will help you opine on the issues.
Worlds like nefarious and heinous aren’t wrong. They’re just bad usage, bad taste, like that stained and tattered Batik shirt you wear to every social function, embarrassing the locals with pidgeon Bahasa Indonesia,while you elbow your way to the last dregs of free Bir Bintang.
In these posts, I’m actually giving you, Ross, a spanking by taking your stuffy conservatism and sticking it in the place were you usually sit.
The advice doesn’t come from me, Achmad Sudarsono. It comes from the acknowledged greats of English usage.
A bit more help for you.
Ross’s version:I would be embarrassed if my posts were on the pedantic, nit-picking level that most of yours seem to be, though to be fair I see why that’s easier than rational argument.
Name-dropping, Orwell or Arendt, is not a substitute for debate, and besides I suspect most people have read more books, (in my case, all of Orwell’s, because they are fun to read) than you, judging from the shallowness of your input.Achmad’s version:
I would be embarrassed if my posts were on the pedantic, nit-picking level of most of yours. To be fair, though, I can see why it’s easier than rational argument.
(I’d actually say crappy rhetoric’s easier than reason).
Name-dropping, Orwell or Arendt, is not a substtitute for debate. I suspect most people have read more books, given the shallowness of your input. (I’ve read all of Orwells, because they are fun).
As you can see, Ross, my versions are snappier, clearer, and have better usage than your verbose and cluttered rantings. This exchange is a bit like Mozart and Salieri in the film Amadeus, where Mozart composes a variation on a tune by the plodder Salieri. Enjoy.
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Oigal says:
Ogle favours us with his vengeful feelings for being punished at school, though is silent as to why he got whacked.
Does it matter, perhaps I was not as smart to pick things up as fast as should have, perhaps I was plain naughty. I certainly make no bones that some teachers really make a positive difference on my learning, others (too many) were just life’s little failures.
Doesn’t really matter, a bully is a bully. As I said the point was proven some years later, Funny part was he cried as an adult, I never did as a child. As I said before, if some arse belts my child then he had better be prepared to stand and deliver with someone his own size (or in my case probably bigger).
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‘my versions are snappier, clearer…’ hey, Big-head and Non-Indonesian -no way would any local show such insufferable arrogance. Take stock of yourself. You are reduced to to insults about my shirts, which you have seen none of, since we do not mix in the same circles. Some of us work, for a start, which means we don’t have more than a few short breaks per week to reply to your almost daily, and increasingly hysterical, postings.
re batik- I have about six, none of them stained, and a social function that lets the likes of you past the door would have little attraction for normal folk. When you grow up sufficiently to argue like a civilised person, submit something coherent so it can be debated. -
Ann says:
Mr.Ross, I have to disagree.
I’m an 18 year old living in Jakarta, and have had my fair share of ‘corporal punishment’ from my parents. Since as long as I can remember, I’ve been slapped, forced to eat sambal (chilli sauce), whipped by belts (some were already chipping, which hurts even worse), canes, feather dusters, cloth hangers, ‘sapu lidi’, locked in dark rooms, locked out of the house, pinched and have my hair pulled. Sometimes they would punish me for misdemeanors, but mostly only out of bad mood, unfounded suspicion, or even my smaller siblings’ mistakes since I’m the eldest. Mr. Ross, I did not have a happy childhood.
Recently I had a newborn sibling. He just turned 1, and I love him as if he’s my own. Because my parents deem themselves ‘too old’ to take care of a baby, most of the nursing goes to me. Of course there are times when I’m just so frustrated, but I know better than to be violent at him. I love him, and he’s just so small compared to me that I just can’t imagine that someone would have the heart to beat up a child. Now, note here that most of the nursing falls in my hand.
Sometimes, when my mom is annoyed at him for crying or for refusing to just sit down (he’s a rather active child), she would hit him. He would cry so loud and so desperately that it’s just heartbreaking. I’m just so horrified. She was so huge compared to the little baby in her arms, crying and yet still reaching out his hands for her soothing embrace. My childhood flashed before my eyes, and I saw my parents in a new light. How could they beat him up? How could they beat ME up? Couldn’t they see how huge they are compared to the little child? Are they even humans? Remembering back to my ‘misdemeanors’, they were so minor and most were not even my fault at all. How could they do it? Children are just so small…
If people say that the children are just too ‘naughty’ or anything of that nature, then don’t have children! You all brought a child into this world where they would be harmed by others, so you should protect them as best as you can, not be a part of the problem! If you want to have a child, be prepared for all the hardship that comes with it.
The ‘their parents beat me up so I beat my children up. It’s ingrained in me’ defense? Bullshit. I never hit my baby brother, even when I’m at my most frustrated, and would never beat my children in the future. I would rather not have children at all than turning into the monster who beat them up.
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Reductio ad absurdum is not a valid argument. Of course nobody advocates beating kids to death.
I posted a reasonable opinion piece, with serious examples of mayhem after corporal punishment was abolished in one region, and some cases of spoilt brats here who grew up to be vicious.
When I was a kid, on the farm, I used to be mean to the ants in their ant-hill outside our house, just poking it with sticks till they all erupted, scurrying to and fro, no doubt growling and snarling in inaudible ant-voices.
Most posters here react in similar vein, and by chance those ants were red ones too.
Ogle favours us with his vengeful feelings for being punished at school, though is silent as to why he got whacked. But he’s right when he says ‘it just never ends with this guy.’ I shall continue to input non-left posts just to break up your monopoly.
Snobby Achmad, unwilling to argue with somebody he’s never laid eyes on but accuses of lurking in ‘filthy dives,’ lacking ‘personal hygiene’ and ‘using a rusty type-writer,’ all inaccurate, offers unreadable supercilious crap about how to write, which he is scarcely qualified to give. Then he makes light of pedophilia, and indeed tries to say that those of us who object to the promotion of an evil practice are themselves the deviants! By the same token,we anti-communists are presumably pushing a sneaky marxist agenda and our demands for real punishment for thugs is a cover for our own nefarious crimes.
Illogical, stuck-up, a person for whom no respect is due, hunkered down in his posh residence, looking down on all noraml folk outside his pampared sphere. Sad, really is poor Achmad, and his name-dropping of books he’s read, maybe, so erudite, and yet a foul-mouth.Can’t really believe he is Indonesian.