Bahasa Indonesia
Nov 19th, 2007, in News, by PatungAustralians don’t want to learn Indonesian.
Australian ambassador to Indonesia Bill Farmer said in Surabaya on 16th November that in recent years the demand for studying bahasa Indonesia in Australian schools had continued to fall.
When Indonesia was ruled by Suharto learning Indonesian in both Australian elementary and high schools became somewhat popular but in the last 10 years languages such as Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Hindi had pushed Indonesian into the background.
Bill Farmer.
Farmer said this was because more and more immigrants were coming to Australia from China, Korea, Japan, and India, at least according to the report. suarasurabaya
Ever the diplomat, he said the decline in interest for learning Indonesian had nothing to do with Indonesia’s reputation in Australia worsening or otherwise, but was simply based on immigration trends.
According to a March 2007 report only 15% of Australian final year high school students study a foreign language, and of those only a little over 1% study Indonesian. abc
158 Comments on “Bahasa Indonesia”
-
Ojolali says:
“In terms of tribal dialects, please note that there are some of us born and raised in melting pot cities, Jakarta as the best example for it, whereas it would be socially impolite for us to speak in our own dialect in public. It’s not like it’s legally wrong or anything, it’s just considered impolite.”
And rightly so – jakartanese or whatever you want to call it is the worst form of kampungan rubbish – a bit like being proud to speak the rubbish now spoken in London –
If you can write it and show me a dictionary then call it a language, until then it is a series of moo’s, farts and belches that sound like somone hawking up a hallibut. -
Lo tulis aja sendiri nyet.
There you go, Ojolali. Want more? đ
Anyhow, there’s no such thing as Jakartanese language. It’s still bahasa Indonesia, just more casual, slang version of it.
If you hate the way it sound, well it isn’t exactly my problem, isn’t it? -
Typo.
… it will never wash off
… it will never be washed off
If you hate the way it sound, …
If you hate the way it sounds, …
… my problem, isn’t it?
… my problem, innit?
-
Some people think that talking like that is somehow trendy – oh well, there you go.
“ÂŚ my problem, innit?
>Are you from Bradford? I believe that “innit” is supposed to be quite trendy if you are unfortunate enough to come from Bradford.
-
Teng says:
If you can write it and show me a dictionary then call it a language, until then it is a series of moo’s, farts and belches that sound like somone hawking up a hallibut.
First of all it’s a dialect, not a language
Second: You can write Jakartan, like Marisa already has shown, and while there might not be a dictionary there are numerous articles and books written about it.
-
nenek sihir says:
Jakartan is a non-standard variety of Indonesian, which perfectly illustrates the diglossic nature of this language. It exists (and not just in Jakarta!), and therefore is perfectly legitimate so no amount of prescriptive diatribe will get rid of it! Don’t know about Jakartan dictionaries, but there are several Prokem ones around…
-
Dragonwall says:
Is there Jakartan language? I thought they only have “chiao sheng” like betawi to benteng. Wonder if Martians will be introduced……???
-
NR Watson says:
I have sitting on my shelves a well-used copy of ‘Kamus Dialek Jakarta’ disusun oleh Abdul Chaer, who was a teacher of mine briefly. Abdul was a prolific writer on Dialek Jakarta and other language issues,
Regards to all.
-
As Bas said.
I’m from New Zealand, I believe our exposure to foreign languages is just as bad as in Australia. I would love to see the Indonesian language brought into these countries.
Cheers,
Tristan Leon -
Ignorant Aussie says:
I’m a dumb Aussie considering learning BI, not for economic reasons, but because Indonesia is our closest neighbour. After reading this thread (and others on this site), I have been convinced not to bother.
Perhaps that is why Aussie’s don’t want to learn BI… you’re damned if you do, and you’re damned if you don’t.
-
I think, well my wife says so, that Jakarta’s slang is basically the Betawi dialect or largely based on the Betawi dialect. If I am wrong, please feel free to correct me.
Thanks,
Paul -
jaka says:
Jakartans use a “modernized” form of Betawi language. The latter itself is a creole form of Malay language which used by the communities of low class workers during colonial era and their descendants (orang Betawi). More and more the old form of Betawi language (there are at least 3 geographical ‘dialects’ of it, Kebayoran dialect is one of them) disappear since the modernized form is used by more educated younger people. They tend to mix it with BI taught in the school and becomes a mainstream due its presence in media. And, so it becomes, a colloquial variety of BI. If you long enough live among an old Betawi society (like in Pondoklabu or Pasarminggu), you will clearly notice the difference: words (encing, encang, babe vs om, kakek, bapak/papa), tone, phrasing, and so on, between “old version” and “modernized version”. But what kept retain is its openness to new inventions (even from english words). To my observation (I grew up in Jakarta and lived among the Betawis) the Jakarta variety of Indonesian somehow have a social function: it binds people from different social strata. My brother for instance used to speak formal Indonesian in his office, but use the Jakarta variety when speak with ‘abang warung’. The social class difference disappears immediately.
-
I think learning a second language should be compulsory in schools all throughout the world. It is a shame for Australia and Australians that more of us do not speak second or third languages. Yet, for most there will be no cause or need for a second language.
I have always found it fascinating that the children of Indonesian friends and acquaintances who are resident overseas and have been since birth tend to speak English and Bahasa Ibu (the language of their mothers), such as English and Batak or Javanese or Sundanese but little or no Indonesian.
Those of you that have copies of language dictionaries like Bahasa Jakarta (?) or other prokem or gaul dictionaries you should post where you bought them or how other readers might be able to acquire them…
The language diversity in Indonesia fits in well with the ideology of “Unity in Diversity”. Indonesia is a diverse place and this is most evident in its diverse languages. Anyone contemplating learning Indonesian should go for it! It is a worthwhile experience and being a little fluent in the language opens up so many new doors to your Indonesian experience, there is so much more of the culture you can enjoy!
-
dewaratugedeanom says:
Rob said
I think learning a second language should be compulsory in schools all throughout the world.
This is a knife that cuts both ways. Of course mastering one or more foreign languages has enormous advantages. It opens up entire new worlds. On the other hand it takes a lot of time and effort (and even money) before one may consider himself a polyglot.
However there is a also a downside. The time and effort spent on learning foreign languages could be spent on more scientific or lucrative pursuits instead of making life easy for those interlocutors who aren’t able or willing to do the same effort. The more so in high profile situations where the ‘power’ element comes into play – like big business deals – where those who are able to impose the use of their mother tongue are in a more comfortable position and can use their natural fluency to their own advantage.
This is a situation that is prevalent especially with English. Even here in IM the commentators – with a few exceptions – who are native English speakers or have had their education abroad, are more likely to have the edge because of their natural fluency and vocabulary richness.It’s all the fault of those bloody Iraqis. If the Babylonians wouldn’t have been so sombong to build the Tower of Babel up into the heavens, God wouldn’t have punished mankind by creating diverse human languages and the subsequent language confusion đ
-
BayuMenjawab says:
Who cares?!..if you want to learn the language just learn, if don’t?..fine by us..we already known (the) english, so, there is no problem with us if your people do not willing to learn our language. Gitu aja koq repot..
-
Bahasa Indonesia is greatly influenced by Bahasa Jovo, whereas Bahasa Brunei by Tagalog.
wow never heard of that thing. i don’t think the Katagalugan of the Philippines have something to do with the Sultanate of Brunei Darusalam.
-
Anne says:
As an Australian who has taught Indonesian for 10 years, I feel that the tragic events of October 12th 2002 in Bali have made the teaching of Indonesian more difficult. Part of studying a language is having the opportunity to visit the country, either on a student exchange program or on a study tour. In terms of learning the language in primary or secondary school, those tragic events have had a negative impact, as students can’t really travel there as easily.
Also following the KRISMON in the 90’s, less students from Indonesian were sent to Australia to study at Secondary Schools, I understand. That has also impacted negatively, as you could understand.
-
Anne…
Perhaps they have. The events were undoubtedly tragic. I understand that Australia has had travel warnings in place for some time however Indonesia I do not see how it has made travelling more difficult for those that really want to come here and immerse themselves in the language and culture for a short or an extended period of time.
The numbers of Australian toursits visiting Indonesia, particularly Bali, has rebounded pretty well. So, some are ignoring the travel warnings.
I guess it depends on how badly you want to learn the language.
I have been living here a good while now and, to be honest, I do not feel any more or less safe than I would in Australia.
-
Andy says:
Bali was one factor for sure but the overall negativity and xenophobia towards westerners hasn’t helped their cause either. We have seen many cases on this website alone. Indonesians for the most part are their own worst enemies. Purba and AAB alone have probably contributed to a dip in tourism, economic activity and Bahasa learning thoughout the world.
Mainly though, as other bloggers have stated, is that Indonesia hasn’t pulled themselves up after the asian economic crisis and is not an important country in the world. Only their geographic position (near the Melacca Strait) with Australia and India surrounding it keeps it at all in the world news. China, Japan, India are important countries in the region, huge economies as well and so naturally will remain the languages which Australians wish to learn. -
timdog says:
Indonesia hasnât pulled themselves up after the asian economic crisis and is not an important country in the world
Andy, much as you’d love it to be otherwise, Indonesia is:
a) the largest ecconomy in Southeast Asia
b) a democracy of sorts, and almost certainly the most “democratically mature” country in ASEAN (it just is; the competition isn’t great, but that doesn’t change the fact of it).
c) despite what you may think, one of – if not the most – politically stable nations in the region
d) looking all the better simply by comparison to the social and political unravelling of Thailand, formerly the other “big beast” of ASEAN
d) quietly attractive to investors for all of the above reasons.None of that means that Indonesia is not also riven with all sorts of enormous, huge, vast problems but to dismiss it as “not important” is ridiculous, especially coming from someone from the miniscule speck on the world radar that is Australia…
Lack of interest in learning Indonesian would seem to me to be Australia’s problem, not Indonesia’s. It probably has to do with a number of factors, one certainly being post-krismon, post-Balibomb drop-off in tourism, though as others have metioned, Australian arrivals in Bali are still pretty good, and overall Bali’s tourist industry is currently in a very healthy state.
Australia’s own tendency to lean away from Southeast Asia politically probably also plays a part (you lot seem to have decided that it’s easier to be the playground thug amongst the tiny minnows of the Pacific, or to play long-distance with the well-behaved head-dippers up in NE Asia than to try to assert yourself amongs the big, consequential, but rather messy and unruly forces of SE Asia who seem to dislike being bossed about).
Like I said, Australia’s problem, not Indonesia’s…
Incidentally, on the subject of “dips in tourism”, were you aware that your own “lucky country” is currently in the midst of its own fairly severe tourism slump? An ongoing thing that predates the current “credit crunch”?
Apparently you’re hoping Nicole Kidman can help win back the British backpackers and coWhat’s causing that dip? “Negativity and xenophobia towards foreigners”? Could possibly be, speaking as a f*cken pommie…
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_countries_by_GDP
timdog, please click on the above link. You described Indonesia as an important large ASEAN economy and Australia as a miniscule speck on the world radar. Wrong my boy!!! Australia’s 21 million people generate more GDP than Indonesia’s 235,000,000. Crazy isn’t it….And Singapore’s 4 million generate about a third. That’s with about 70 times less the population and no natural resources. Go figure.
Let’s get back to the thread here rather than give me your fantasy scenarios. This thread wouldn’t be here in the first place if it wasn’t important for Indonesia that we learn Bahasa. Now as a bahasa speaker myself, betul timdog!!! saya bisa bicara bahasa indonesia!, I would love my people to speak the lingo. But alas they would prefer to speak Mandarin or Japanese. It is because, wait for it, they are important countries in the region, more so than Indonesia. Indonesia’s importance has waned since the Suharto years. As much as he was a ruthless thug he ran a sound ship worthy of us investing our hard earned money in it.
As for us losing tourists, I would think our stronger dollar was the contributing factor. But now it is under 70 cents again we may start looking more attractive to overseas visitors. But that cuts both ways. It may mean less Aussies going to Bali and more staying home and surfing in Coffs or Surfers instead. But I guess as a f…en pommie you prefer Indonesia’s racial tolerance yourself am I right?
-
Don’t know about that last statement..Think it has more to do with the dollar’s strength. Now that it’s back below .70USD maybe folks will return. See when people travel they usually look for bang for the buck. Reason i’d rather go to Indonesia than the UK.
Also why do you say Indonesia is a hugely important economy and Australia is a miniscule speck. Please read the link below….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
-
Who said anything about “hugely important ecconomy”?
I said Indonesia is the largest ecconomy in Southeast Asia, which it is, and which clearly makes it rather important in the region.From everywhere else in the world, apart from maybe Tuvalu or Kiribati, Australia is a distant speck on the significance charts (I am not talking about ecconomy here; I’m talking about everything)… hell, for all Howard’s leg-humping poodlery you didn’t even get a billing in the opening credits of the War on Terror, which ranks you somewhere down there with Eritrea and the Marshall Islands…
-
Who said anything about âhugely important ecconomyâ?
I said Indonesia is the largest ecconomy in Southeast Asia, which it is, and which clearly makes it rather important in the region.From everywhere else in the world, apart from maybe Tuvalu or Kiribati, Australia is a distant speck on the significance charts (I am not talking about ecconomy here; Iâm talking about everything)⌠hell, for all Howardâs leg-humping poodlery you didnât even get a billing in the opening credits of the War on Terror, which ranks you somewhere down there with Eritrea and the Marshall IslandsâŚ
Scale of economies are usually how countries are judged, not by mere assumptions and pub talk. Isn’t it surprising timdog after you talked up Indonesia’s credentials that their 235 million cannot produce as much as Australia’s 21 million. And at the risk of sounding like a nationalist …., let’s look at another in Taiwan. Their small island produces about the same as Indonesia which is blessed with vast resources and foreign aid and investment.
No we are bigger than Tuvalu, 15,000 Indonesians study in Australian universities while only 150 odd Aussies go to Indonesia to do the same. Come on give credit where it is due. Howard’s humping (and i’m not a fan of his at all) of China and Rudd’s now has opened a few doors in China. And that my friend is the important economy to us in the region. Indonesia is merely a shipping lane in which to get out iron ore over to there. And a nice place to fly over on the way to Europe or Phuket.
The thread is about Indonesia’s (and their lingo) importance to Australia, not the other way round.
-
Purba Negoro says:
Andy,
why bother with figures you do not comprehend- you’ll only allow yourself to be once again proven to be an uneducated vacuous idiot.Andy provides figures for 2006- 2 years out of date, thankfully not the 20 which Andy is- clinging to a best-forgotten era fried dim-sum, skintight acid-washed jeans and mullet hairstyles.
The 2007 figures of GDP PPP: ([[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)]])
“PPP basis is arguably more useful when comparing generalized differences in living standards on the whole between nations because PPP takes into account the relative cost of living and the inflation rates of the countries, rather than using just exchange rates which may distort the real differences in income”- clearly states Indonesia is ranked number 16, Australia underneath at number 17-18.Indonesia is the 4th most populous nation. Gareth Evans, an Australian politicians stated, “by 2020, Indonesia will be the 5th largest economy in the world”.
Indonesia is also the closest neighbour after Timor to Australia- thu it is in Australia’s best interests to learn the knowledge of their future masters.I fully agree Bahaasa Indonesia- and the Meyau subcategory be officially recognised as UN languages. They are as complex, poetic and intelligent as any other language and far easier to access for non North east Asian speakers than the complex languages of Chinese, Korean and Japanese, and well outrank English in structure and the all-important âlearn-abilityâ.
Indonesia (and Indonesians) are considered far inferior to other languages- by both the Chinese and the arrogant smug albeit baseless Anglophone world- but most glaringly the world’s most obese nation of Ostraya.
It is equal to every other language- and far better constructed than English- a hodge-podge mix of colloqiual Germanic languages, Frankish, and French.
The very worst Indonesian is still music to one’s ears to the grating nasal whine of the globally despised Australian accent of the provincials and peasantry, such as Andy (Capp).A major PROBLEM with Indonesian language is poor quality, colloqiual and low-brow casual language is commonly âmis-recognisedâ as representative.
Singaporeans and Malaysians have very poor grasp of Indonesian or even Malaysian.
Being able to loudly mispronounce enough casual market words for some trade does not make one a linguist, nor an expert.
Just as being able to mimic poorly a faux British accent does not make a Singaporean a white nor a Briton- two most dearly desired dreams of becoming.In fact- in Indonesia, Chinese commonly have utter contempt for Indonesian language aside from basic commands to be shouted at maids. Mean Chinese scores in Indonesian language as part of National Curriculula are the nations’ lowest bar none.
Medan is a prime example of a large, isolationist, contemptuously arrogant, hostile community of squatting uninvited aliens- where Chinese language and schools bloomed in contempt of National Law- and resulted in the self-destructive product of Medan Chinese being totally unable and unwilling to communicate in the language of the nation who so graciously hosted their illegal presence.Salim Said’s university recommended text âShadows on a Silver Screenâ details the problems Chinese mass-media has created in undermining Indonesian language.
Chinese also are the major producers of low-cost, solely economically motivated profit-geared mass-consumption film and television media- hence shoddy Indonesian has been promulgated through mass-consumption TV and cinema as well.
If one compares a typically Chinese trite deriavative film such as Quicky Express to the work of Javanese such as “Opera Jawa” the massive divergence in the quality of language is glaringly obvious.
Gramedia, a Chinese publisher one of the largest in Indonesia has also contributed to the cheapening of Indonesian through poorly edited and referenced texts such as dictionaries and other reference texts (money being the sole key motivator for not utilising expert reference and input).
Quantity and lowest-costs for greatest profit margin again being typical motivators for quick economic gain being prime drivers of these Chinese publishers.Chinese patois and poor grasp of Indonesian- is still very evident today, a large portion of printed material is in substandard Indonesian with cheesy and incorrect English usage and misappropriations which are rapidly promulgated. Whatever hideous gabble and gossip emanating from Chinese (sounding like a non-ending blur of undulating âbillibble-bilobbleâ) and the youth who socialise with them is not at all indicative of Indonesian- it’s just more crap best ignored.
The highest calibre language of Indonesia is indeed Javanese- which Indonesian and Malaysian borrow much from. Formal Javanese is based heavily on the Hindu Dewa Negari and Sanskrit with some pre-existing native content.
The PROBLEM with Javanese is the colloquial ângokoâ: very informal and conversational spoken form is mistaken as being representative. The spoken language skill of many Javanese has dropped too- so that many erroneously mix different strata Javanese- which should never be combined.
Until 1938-ish, Dutch Gulden was printed with legal text in four languages: Javanese, Arabic, Dutch and Chinese. In this time, a Javanese published character (aksara jawa) language politically charged newspaper with a massive readership was very popular- but ultimately banned by the Dutch.Indonesian is a compromise language rendered in Latin rpecisely to Internationalise the nation. Indonesian is actually formed by expert linguists in committee meeting regularly with loan words from many regions and regional languages- to consolidate the concept of geographic Indonesia into one language.
The regional languages should also be correctly labelled as LANGUAGES not DIALECTS.
A dialect is a Although they are related from one root, they are all separate and often not mutually intelligible exactly like the Romance languages of French Italian and Spanish. The same such logic should follow.The Australian prime mincer John Howard was the sole reason for demonising Indonesia on the advice of the twits of ASIO and the Australian Feral Police.
In Sep of 2005, Howard slashed the budget of Indeonrsian language in all schols.
This was part of the psy-ops dehumansation of Indonesia and Indonesians necessary for Australia’s marginally legal invasion and territorial aggression in East Timor- for the grab at North West Shelf gas resources- the 5th largest known deposits of hydrocarbons in the world.Chip Henriss-Anderssen, Major (Austrlian Army retd) who served with the International Force for East Timor stated:
“We went to East Timor to help those people, and now we are slapping them in the face and stealing their oil. We thought we were doing something decent. Now we have to ask the very real question of whether or not we went to East Timor to secure oil assets that aren’t ours.”
[[http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Asia/Australia_OilGrab_ETimor.html]]
see
[[http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2006/012006/scheiner.html]]and
[[http://www.greenleft.org.au/2000/431/22221]]as Australian natural gas consumption ( a “green” energy which combust with high efficiency and minimal resultant carbon- important considering Australia is one the top 5 largest per capita carbon oxides polluters with massive reliance on low-calorific coal energy)
I quote:”Australian Gas Association (AGA) are lobbying the federal and state governments to increase the use of natural gas in power generation, arguing that it is a cheap and environmentally friendly alternative to coal. The AGA wants state governments to adopt a model similar to the Queensland government’s Cleaner Energy Strategy, which proposes that by 2005, 13% of the state’s electricity be produced from natural gas.
The expected increase in demand for natural gas means that the two main gas fields in the Timor Gap, the Bayu-Undan and the Greater Sunrise fields, will be highly lucrative investments for Phillips Petroleum, Santos, Inpex, Petroz and Kerr-McGee, and British Borneo, which are involved in the Bayu-Undan field, and Shell, Woodside and Osaka Gas, which control the Northern Australian Gas Venture (NAGV), in Greater Sunrise. ”
Skah mat again yobboland.
Enjoy your new mortgage based poverty- we Javanese will be buying your strategic industries shortly- to strip them bare for our Japanese friends. -
Lairedion says:
Nice rant, PN but French is a Romance language, not Germanic.
The most beautiful language I ever heard is Maori, a fellow Austronesian language.
-
Israel says:
I just wanna say that Im from mexico and I LOVE Bahasa Indonesia. I speak English, Spanish, French, and Bahasa Indonesia, and Indonesian is the coolest language I’ve ever learnt. Go Indonesia!!!
-
Sook says:
Australia’s loss. They have a political hotspot just to the north, and the Aussies don’t feel like having friendly dealings with their neighbors? More fool them.
I’m an American of Indonesian descent, raised in Southern California. I learned Spanish in high school (and while I’m rusty as hell, I can get by) because I figured with the enormous amount of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans in Los Angeles (where I go to school) knowing Spanish would mean I could land more jobs and get higher pay. And it does.
If Australia doesn’t see the economic benefit of learning Bahasa Indonesia, then they’re silly.
Also, Australia is opposed to terrorism and for security in Southeast Asia (they’d be insane not to be, after all.) Training diplomats, soldiers, businesspeople, journalists, and government employees to speak a neighbor’s language is common sense, especially when that neighbor happens to be a “a major front in the global war on terror,” as some might put it.
If Indonesia is stable, the area is happy. If Aussies learn Indonesian, they can help. If they’re not concerned about regional or national security, who am I to argue with them? I’m just some dumb American living 6,000 miles away, after all.
-
Zendavesta says:
I just feel confident when I speak my own country’s language, that is, Bahasa Indonesia…
It makes me feel proud, a bit charismatic especially when encountering those foreigner who know not about the language.
I’m a Javanese, so beside speaking Indonesian I also speak Javanese daily.
Indonesian Language, for me, has a clear, un”cheating” pronounciaton, unlike some popular latin-based languages like English, you say “car” c, a, r, as “Ka:”. In Bahasa Indonesia, when you say “merdeka” it should sound like “MeR deh kah” instead of mee de kae or whatever else english-men would say.Anyway, this forum is getting like Aussie vs. Indonesia war, that’s a human allright, humph
Comment on “Bahasa Indonesia”.
Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-2025
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact
Doesn’t matter. Bahasa Indonesia will never be extinct, language is the colour of our skin in a way–it will never wash off. It isn’t necessarily about the language, it’s about the message, the perseverence of culture implied somewhere in the context.
English is english, it’s universal, it’s basically a compulsory language to learn. I personally never take pride for being able to communicate in English, everyone can and will anyways. But if non-natives or expatriates encouraged themselves to use Bahasa Indonesia, now that’s what amazes us, even if we natives don’t show it much.
In terms of tribal dialects, please note that there are some of us born and raised in melting pot cities, Jakarta as the best example for it, whereas it would be socially impolite for us to speak in our own dialect in public. It’s not like it’s legally wrong or anything, it’s just considered impolite. Hence most of us are more accustomed in using Indonesia; English, only if possible and necessary.
Yeah well. Believe it or not, we natives living in our own motherland, can also encounter some sort of language barriers too amongst ourselves, but more of how a language might represent something else. A stigma or something.
Thanks for sharing, learned a lot from the comments.