Bahai
Nov 1st, 2007, in News, by PatungMuslims converting to Bahai.
Thirty-one Muslims in the Donggala area of Central Sulawesi have become apostates and converted to the Bahá’à religion, it is said, inviting the anger of their neighbours who are sticking firm to Islam, and the displeasure of the local bureaucracy.
The head of the Religious Affairs Office in Palolo sub-district said that the Bahai faith, led by one Mulahi, a former marriage counsellor, entered Banpers village in the 1990s, and Mulahi had persuaded 31 local people to convert.
But some Muslims in the village are not taking it lying down:
The homes of the Bahai followers in Banpers are often pelted with stones.
Nor is the local government, which held a meeting between concerned Muslims and the Bahaists in September, 2007, wherein the Bahai adherents were warned to have a think about which religion they wanted to belong to, either Islam, like before, or another religion which was recognised by the government, because Bahai is not. Another meeting will be held soon, to find out whether the Bahaists have had enough thinking time. antara
The Department of Religion (Depag) has also sent down an investigative team, says Muhammad Ramli in Palu, and they will have to decide whether Bahai is a sect within Islam. If so, then the converts, or their leaders, can likely be prosecuted for blasphemy. Depag also wants to find out how Bahai has been spread in the area, because if it is being preached at people who already hold a religion, then that may also constitute a crime, he said. antara
November 8th. Two out of the seven households that converted to Bahai are said to have returned to Islam, after the two heads of the households, Mulahi (70) and Muslimin (40), met with local leaders. Four others refused to change back to Islam, while the seventh did not turn up. antara
395 Comments on “Bahai”
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Janma says:
Wa LÄ«aÄ¥kum ‘Ahlu Al-‘InjÄ«li BimÄ ‘Anzala AllÄhu FÄ«hi Wa Man Lam YaÄ¥kum BimÄ ‘Anzala AllÄhu Fa’Å«lÄ’ika Humu Al-FÄsiqÅ«na
There is not ahluinjili in Quran! I wish you can read that.
Yeah…. I really really don’t get this guy!? He writes proof of the word al-injili in the quran and then says it’s not there and why don’y you get it????? did I miss an episode?
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Stefan says:
@Ade Wanto: Adultery is still a sin in christianity. Rest the ending of the quoted verses again: Go now and leave your life of sin.
@Mohammed Khafi: I think AAB’s post was irony.
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Cukurungan says:
Khafi,
You said:
Firstly it is not my translation into indonesian, the translation is widely available on the internet and in print, and simply proves the point that people like yourself do not check its authenticity when using it, I used it to illustrate the point that the word Injeel is used in the verse, this fact I checked with the arabic original and with other indonesian and english translations.
If, and I quote “God was telling to the prophet that whoever reject the revelation given to him is an infidels “¦.” Why would God give us the following verse:
Walyahkum ahlu al-injeeli bima anzala Allahu feehi waman lam yahkum bima anzala Allahu faola-ika humu alfasiqoona 5:47
And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors. 5:47
It quite clearly states that “the followers of Injeel should judge by what Allah revealed in it”
This doesn’t necessarily mean the scriptures as they stand today, but Allah also makes this clear by stating that they should follow what Allah revealed in it
Al Quran is not a replacement for the previous scriptures it is a confirmation of what Allah revealed in them:
Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah’s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,- 2:97
Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper. 2:3-5
Even Nabi Isa, before hand was told to tell the Jews that what he brought was only a confirmation of what they already had:
And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.” But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, “this is evident sorcery!” 61:6Me :
There is no question that the followers of Injeel, Torah or even Confusius should be judge by their respective God revealed to them because prior God send down the quran , there was not any single revelation that applicable for all mankind because at that time, those mentioned book revelation was only applicable to a specific time and specific people but after God send down the quran that confirming those existence of previous book and purifying the corrupted verses all of the previous books are not valid anymore and superseded by quran.You said :
Read the verses again:
Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. 2:62
Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve. 5:69
Do you see the use of the word AND, it is clear from these verses that anybody who believes in God, and the Day of Judgement and does good deeds is included in going to heaven. The only qualifier is ‘belief in God, and the Day of Judgement and doing good deeds” it doesn’t say only those who believe in The message of Prophet Mohammed.
It is quite clear that those people of book who believes in God, and the Day of Judgement and does good deeds is included in going to heaven.Me:
But you were trying to play a trick by disregarding other Quran verse that it was clearly determine what is “good deeds” and what is “belief in God” after God send down the Quran as below:
[002:136] Say ye: “We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them:
[002:137] So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism; but God will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.“given to US” in this verses is Muhammad SAW.
So it is quite clear after God send down the Quran whoever rejects revelation given to Him is not in the right path anymore. Of course for people who life before God send down the Quran, they will be judge according to their respective revelation given to them not by revelation given to Muhammad SAW. As I believe all death people are still on “Alam Kubur” and the judgment day for them has not been started yet and what I believe that heaven and hell still have no occupant yet. Jew, Christian and Sabian who life before Muhammad Saw time would be included into this Category:
Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. 2:62
But after God send down the perfect and complete version of Quran, the only applicable revelation for all mankind is the Quran only and nothing else. Otherwise God make double standard.
The simple analogy would be “Peraturan Perusahaan” in certain company, every time the company owner issue new revised “Perauran Perusahaan” it will automatically superseded the previous peraturan as simple as that but “Great Khafi” still could not get it..You said:
There are are some contradictions in this statement, you say that Islam is the only one from Nabi Adam to Nabi Mohammed, but then you go on to say that there are other religions and gods? The whole point of Islam is that there are no other religions Cuk, there are no other religions and no other gods, they are all Islam, and there is only one God. There may be followers who have been misguided and have deviated from the true path, but they all started with messengers from Allah.Me:
It is not contradiction but I was talking about from my point of belief, of course other people could have different statement than me that is OK. In my point those Christian and Jew follower are misguided and me is misguided in their view “¦so what”¦ even we discuss with them until 50000 years there will be no conclusive agreement “¦.what the best we can hope and do just agree in this disagreement because most people just tend to believe what they want to believeYou said:
What is clear to me Cuk, is that you have been misguided, one of the moral traits recommended in the Qur’an is forgiveness:
“Hold to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the ignorant.” 7: 199
ssomeone pardons and puts things right, his reward is with Allah”¦” 42:40
“”¦. But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” 64: 14
It has also been revealed in the Qur’an that forgiveness is a superior moral trait:
“But if someone is steadfast and forgives, that is the most resolute course to follow.” 42:43Me :
Verse you quoted is applicable for the pious muslim for me I am only the lower part of muslim and I would prefer to use the easy verses for me like Teeth by teeth and death by death
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Mohammed Khafi says:
Cuk said:
There is no question that the followers of Injeel, Torah or even Confusius should be judge by their respective God revealed to them because prior God send down the quran , there was not any single revelation that applicable for all mankind because at that time, those mentioned book revelation was only applicable to a specific time and specific people but after God send down the quran that confirming those existence of previous book and purifying the corrupted verses all of the previous books are not valid anymore and superseded by quran.
So why do you quote later in your posting the following verse:
Say ye: “We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them:2:136Read the verse, it states quite clearly that we have to believe in the previous revelations and that we should make no difference between them and Al Quran, it doesnt say that we should disregard them because they are superseded.
By saying that Torah and Injeel are to be discarded because they are superseded means that you are not following the instructions of Allah, you are denying His BooksThe second verse you quoted:So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism; but God will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.2:137
This verse clearly is dependent on the conditions of the previous verse being fulfilled, that is, the belief in all of Allah’s revelations being accepted. If you do not accept the previous scriptures, and you have clearly stated this fact you are like the Jews and the Christians who have rejected Al Quran, and are one of those who turn back “it is they who are in schism; but God will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing”
It is the same in this verse:
O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray. 4:136For sure, in this verse, Allah is asking the Jews and the Christians to believe in Al Quran because they deny it as one of His revelations, but are you actually any better than them when you deny His previous revelations which He explicitly tells you to accept?
As I have tried to explain to you before, Al Quran is not replacing the previous scriptures it is a confirmation of them, this is repeated many many times in Al Quran.
This Qur’an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book – wherein there is no doubt – from the Lord of the worlds. 10:37
See no mention of being a replacement, it is a confirmation and a fuller explanation.
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; 5:48
Once more Allah says a confirmation of what came before, but this time also tells us that Al Quran is guarding the previous scripture, what does He mean by this? He means that we can use Al Quran to distinguish what is Allah’s revelation in the existing scripture and what is not!
Cuk said:
But after God send down the perfect and complete version of Quran, the only applicable revelation for all mankind is the Quran only and nothing else. Otherwise God make double standard.
The simple analogy would be “Peraturan Perusahaan” in certain company, every time the company owner issue new revised “Perauran Perusahaan” it will automatically superseded the previous peraturan as simple as that but “Great Khafi” still could not get it..Are you sure God made a double standard, the verses above clearly tell us to accept all his messengers and all his messages!
Perhaps it is the “Lower Part of Muslim, Cukurungan, who cannot get it?
Peace
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Quran is supposed to be easy to understand. Stop the brawling and let us unite against IM crusaders. We will start with Judas on the cross, and trinity. Anyone for it?
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Ade Wanto says:
Teng Says:
@ Ade Wanto.. its “funny” how you think adultery and free sex are the same as “incest, bestiality etc”.
FYI, those ARE illegal in Christian countries. It’s really an example of your total black-white extreme thinking. Your train of thoughts seem to go like this: If you don’t punish adulterers”¦THEN you agree with incest and bestiality.Stefan Says:
@Ade Wanto: Adultery is still a sin in christianity. Rest the ending of the quoted verses again: Go now and leave your life of sin.Yes, of course, even you say adultery is a sin, then after you commit it you can easily go to your priests and make an confession. Thus, your sin, WHATSOEVER your sin are, with your priest magic spell, abrakadabra, all your sin wipe out. That’s the causa prima why in many countries and communities which Christians dominate in numbers all kind of free sex (even, as you say, adultery is a sin) soars.
In Islamic way of life, adulteries is really sin then adulterers must be punished. For what? To make sure those are adulterer don’t make it again. In what way the Bible punish adulteries? Or, there is no punishment for adulteries in Bible? Unfortunately, it because daily exposure of free sex life via many modern medium (tv, film, internet, print media, etc) many youngster from Moslem’s countries and/or communities get negative way of life and indeed nowadays they face problems such as young pregnancy, non marital relationship, even they get HIV/AIDS.
Is it true adulteries are illegal in Christians countries? In Mass, USA, they already have a law to allow homosexual marriage. Is it in USA a Christians (dominate by numbers) country or where? And, in all countries in Europe, homosexual and prostitutions are legal. In many states of USA also have a law that allow prostitutions. Which country do you mean that dominate by Christians in numbers is prohibit adulteries, prostitutions, non marital relationship, swinger, free sex life style?
Btw, for us, in Indonesia, which Muslim dominate by numbers, we will produce a law that allow a man commit to polygamy, but surely we reject adulteries and surely will be punish it. However, what is Christians stand for adulteries, it is their rule. I don’t wanna judge other believe. I just show that adulteries will jeopardy community.
Cukurungan Says: No”¦most of them just a typical english teacher who very famous with their reputation of “Shagger Underage Girls”
Ha ha ha. Again you get the whole point, brother. Eventually, I see crystal clear here someone is using muslim’s dress to make us dance. I remind you guys, “Beware of those who say that the sacred texts speak for themselves.”
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Halo Uda Aluang Anak Bayang,
I find an interesting phenomenon in Bible recently. In 1970, I recall there is no word Allah in Bible (bahasa Indonesia edition). But, in Bible (bahasa Indonesia edition) published by LAI in year of 2006, there is a word Allah appear in it. I wonder what is word Allah in Bible stand for? Is it same as Allah have stated in Quran for thousands years ago or what? I also wonder how in Bible such as in English edition, is there a word Allah too? Allah is an Arabic word that only use by Muslim to make a difference to another gods.
If a word Allah appear in Bible (bahasa Indonesia edition) thus it means Christians in Indonesia worship Allah too as same as Muslim do, or what? I also wonder what is going on the faith of Trinity in Christianinty (esp in Indonesia) after a word Allah appear in Bible (bahasa Indonesia edition)? Is it Trinity’s faith in Christianity become Quartet now (Allah, Father in Heaven, Jesus the son, and Holy Spirit) or what?
Is it true there is a IM crusader here? Gotcha. You obviously can separate “sheep” from “goat” but this is still internet, Uda. Even he says, “Oh, I’m sorry for my bad English I should write this (sh*t).” Whoops.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
Aluang Anak Bayang
Mas Khafi, you are a lost soul. No true believer rejects Hadith and Sunnah.
Mohammed Khafi seems a devout, wise and upright man, quoting from the wrong Book.
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Mas Wanto, it is easy to separate the real moslems from the fake ones. You need to stay around IM long enough to label them. Here are a list:
Sheikh Cuk, Ayatollah Hassan, Mullah Tuan, recent convert dewaratugedeanom and I are right on the money. We are as sunni moslem as the Bali bombers; and we are here to protect the namesake of Islam.
Mas Sudarsono is a sufi moslem for his liking of poetries.
Mas Khafi is a buddhist moslem who messes up Tipitaka quotes for quranic verses.
Nabi Sputjam thinks he is a prophet with his habit of creating his own quranic verses.
There is no need to argue who had the correct interpretation. The proof is already there. Some foreign agent had put the word Allah inside 2006 bibles to further break up the true religion.
Indonesia is tanah tumpah darah kami, and we pribumis together with pin-up white boy dewa should show a united front. Otherwise Indonesia will be another Iraq.
Salam.
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ade wanto said:
Is it true there is a IM crusader here? Gotcha. You obviously can separate “sheep” from “goat” but this is still internet,
me :
yes once upon time but after I launched barrage re-education and special entertainment programs for them, most of them either already took a cyanide pills or converted like AAB and soon dewaratu also will follow AAB paths
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Sputjam says:
A day will come, when mankind realise that all God was trying to do, was to warn mankind from falling victims to those who had created and promoted religion.
All religion perform idol worship, in one way or another. Muslims say they do not idol worship in Mecca, but used the kaabah as some form of monument to remind them of God. This Haj season, look again on TV. Only muslims are blind enough not to see their idol worshipping ways. You may witness some people rushing in to kiss a black meteorite. Ask yourself, why this is done. Other circumvate the black stone which is embedded in the kaabah, nine time, similar to the tibetans budhist circumvate their monument in Lhasa.
Mohamed was against idol worship. So what actually happened was that present day muslims are embracing an ancient arab religion, which overturned whatever was relayed by Mohamed.Most muslims have been brainwashed since childhood, so I am not surprise that many do not see things the way I do.
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
Quran is supposed to be easy to understand.
And this is correct. If it is not easily understood, then beware. It could be mistranslated, or added in. Only God knows. And those Whom he Guides, they will refrain from performing any idol worship rituals. Only then will freedom of faith become clear to the individual.
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Ade, once again you display how sorely lacking in knowledge of both Islam and apparently Bahasa Indonesia you truely are by saying:
Allah is an Arabic word that only use by Muslim to make a difference to another gods.
Arabic loan words have been a part of Indonesian languages for generations.
Allah simply means The God, if you think it isn’t properly used by Christians and they are somehow using it to mislead people, perhaps you had better refer to the many Arab Christians, living in The Middle East, Africa and other parts of Asia. In fact you can also refer to the Arabic speaking Jews, who use the same word, even the pre Islamic Arabic Pagans used the word.
And just in case you have already forgotten:
Know, therefore, that there is no god but Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe: for Allah knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes.47:19
There is no god but He: That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise.3:18Peace
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Ade,
Perhaps you need reminding of this verse as well:
And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).” 29:46Peace
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Uda Aluang Anak Bayang,
Let me quote this verse first:
The blind and the seeing are not equal, nor are the darkness and the light. The shade and the heat are not equal, nor are the living and the dead. Allah can cause whom Allah will to hear Allah, but you cannot make those who are in their graves hear you. (Quran 35:18-19)
I’ve tagged on this blogs just recently. I don’t know any rather than you. However I really don’t label anyone here. I just convey my knowledge about Islam and moslem esp Indonesian Moslem. And, I don’t mean to enforce and make any compulsory to other to change their believe. And, if s/he even myself make mistake about Islam, you can spit on.
If you agree to someone bomb himself -in what reason- it is yours. I don’t have to do that to defense My Allah and My Prophet. I believe all human race can live together by their diversity as long as they all respect the difference. I also believe we don’t have to save other faith to be a member of God’s Kingdom. And, I believe too, all human race can reach their own god and heaven (WHATSOEVER their god and heaven even they are atheists). So, as I always quote, your god is yours. My Allah is mine. I won’t worship what you worship neither you won’t worship what I worship.
IM is abbreviate for Indonesian Moslem, isn’t it? Or, Impossible Mission. What are Janma, Parvita, Ihankt etc? I see these f*cking moron ladies sometime easily change their religion from one to another topics. I’ve suggested them to go visit Pakmantri -a man who has a role sniffing his dick glue- to check their nose up rather than operate their pussy ASAP. Don’t forget check their brain and ass too, Pakmantri.
Me myself, in daily life, have many expat friends: they are American, European, Australian, etc. We know each other better. My wife and my children too know their families too. I always convey Islam to them exactly as I post here. I tell them too it’s really not easy to convert someone’s faith to other.
Someone who convert his belief to other (WHATSOEVER their believe) need a very very very great struggle. I always say, converting a religion is really like to be a prophet. Unless you just jest and merry. And, indeed, making money for yourself. I think Islam is not like that. Moslem do not count by numbers. True Moslems are not bubbles.
For me, as an individual human being, we are unique. I mean we have differences to each other. But, as I quote above too – a poem from Marin Sorescu- what should I do if I’m gonna have a soap? Shall I dig this earth to avoid meet the others? No, I don’t think so. And, I don’t want to do that. I must face all barricades even I should give my life and all my family member life too.
Uda Aluang Anak Bayang,
For moslems, “My deeds are mine and your deeds are yours. You are not accountable for my actions, nor am I accountable for what you do.” (Quran 10:41) And, god is stated crystal clear as “Allah is One, the Eternal Allah. Allah begot none, nor was Allah begotten. None is equal to Allah.”
That’s the reason I always say each religion has their own god. And, their god are different to each other. However as Alfred Einstein and Stephen Hawking say, this universe is created by one and only Creator. But, why, in fact, do we find all religion has their own god and rules? So, what do have we do? I suggest, we must find the real Creator. Firstly, let you answer these questions:
Is it true Father in heaven was the one and only creator? Is it true Jesus who was create this universe? Is it true Siddharta Gautama create this universe? Is it true Betara Indra create me, Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking? So, who was create this universe? I think as a human (which have brain and faith) we must find the real answer. And, I think we must use our gift (brain and soul) as human being to find the real Creator. I really don’t wanna be a sheep which possibly the most retarded and stupid animals with no free thought (they just follow their shepperd).
As I recall, in early 1980’s, that some my Christians friend spoke to me that Christians has accepted Allah as their god too. At that time I really don’t understand what my Christians friend was said to me like that. I suppose they were just making a joke. For me, the change of Christianity in Indonesia is a prove that they are really hypocrites. They make their own rule by their appetite. But, if you ask me, are you anti-Christians? I quote this answer just for you:
What is it with Christians? They gotta hate everyone, even themselves.
It’s not bad enough you’re the most intolerant religion on earth. You gotta discriminate against the Jews, wage war against Muslims then paint THEM as the war-mongerers (even though we’ve overrun their countries), and even hate atheists. And then, when you finally run out of people to hate, you turn on yourselves. Catholics hate Baptists, Baptists hate Protestants, and everyone hates Mormons. All this – even though you all believe in the same Gods. Gods that don’t even f*cking make sense and Gods that try to teach you love and tolerance. Christians are the most hypocritical species on the planet earth. You twist your own lines so that you can wage war, reward your own greed, and try to repress others. I believe the most selfish people you’ve ever met in your life were all Christians.My fellow Indonesians,
Why do you fear Indonesia will burn like Iraq? I don’t think any country will mongorer Indonesia like Iraq. But, you must close enough to see that it is a matter of time Indonesia will be balkanize. Trust in me on this. What is going on in Papua which demand to be a Christians self-authority province -like Aceh do- for me is a first step to balkanize Indonesia.
And, if you observe carefully what is going on recently that suddenly appear many cults hijack Islam to confusing Moslems those cult are obviously founded by design. I have a friend who voluntary work for Tim Investigasi Aliran Sesat (TIAS), all cult leader finally declare that they receive amount of money from anonymous to build cult that hijack faith of Islam. Fortunately, many Indonesian aware of this wrong things.
We do also beware of those who say that the sacred texts speak for themselves. Like enforce convincing many people to believe that all religion -especially Islam and Christians- have same god. It really obvious that they leverage Islam to accept that Allah is Christians’s god too. And, then after that those who enforce convincing other believer shall declare, “We have same god so we are not different. Of course in some matters we have a difference like in time when we pray god: we go to the church and you go to the mosque btw basically we are the same. So you can be a Christians as good as be a Moslem.
For me, that preposition is contrary to Islam thought about god. And, to persons those that enforce convincing people to leverage Allah and Islam, I should speak out, “No peace!”
The blind and the seeing are not equal, nor are the darkness and the light.
Salaam,
meet me @ http://aviandewanto.multiply.com/
and/or http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=575593280PS:
If one’s quote about people of the book (ahlulkitabi) that written in Quran to convince Moslem about their god as same as Moslem’s god -which crystal clear stated as Allah- it better ask them: Is it their “kitab” as same as ahlulkitaba’s scriptures that Allah reveal to? In the time when Muhammad was conveying Islam, there are existing people who inheritage “kitab.” They are small group of people and scattered in all Africa.
About Ahlulkitaba itself, we, Moslems, believe Quran just remind us that before Islam there are some people who accept Allah as god – and Quran named them as Ahlulkitaba. But, unfortunately, ahlulkitaba in Quran does not mean Christians follower nowadays coz Bibles as Christians follower heed nowadays do not same as “kitab” that mention in Quran.
Is it true Moslems are brainwashed? Please elaborate and show me. And, as you says, “Muslims say they do not idol worship in Mecca, but used the kaabah as some form of monument to remind them of God.”
Who is worship kaabah? Is it true kaabah is to reminding of god? This ritual, Hajj, has been performing since the Prophet Abraham. Islam preserve that tradition to remember Abraham the father of all monotheistic religion in this earth and preserve history of all monotheistic religion. This Hajj ritual -if you read many books of the history of religion – not only perform by Arabs. All nations at that time perform that ritual. Of course, Moslem are not worship anything else except Allah. Kaabah is symbolism House of Abraham as an Allah prophet. Of course, that because kaabah is house of Allah prophet, many people believe kaabah is Allah house too. If we kiss hajjar aswad, it does not mean we worship that stone. Again, it is a symbolism that moslem have trust and love Allah.
What Moslems do are very different from Christians and other religion do. Christians eat a cookie (that give by priests) when sunday pray, symbolism eat body of Jesus. And, drink a wine symbolism blood of Jesus. FYI, Moslem is very different from Christians when conduct a pray. Moslems, I believe, never eat their god’s body and never drink their god’s blood. I wonder you are a good Christians and I feel sorry for your misleading about Islam. Btw, please have some books of what you want to judge and read it first before making any comment. It is wiser otherwise we obviously see your stupidity.
Thus mebbe my name is not from Arabic language btw for sure in Arabic illa means god. Allah is illa name for moslem only. Again, I tell you all, even your name taken from Arabic language, it still does not mean you are the only one in this planet can read Quran. WHATSOEVER many verses of Quran you quote, it is obvious you are dumb and stupid. And, if you think you are the only one have Arabs friend, you’d better see my passport to find out how many times I’ve flew there. And, in this flat world, you can easily just find it through internet.
FYI, if you still do not know, I brief you, each religion has their own god’s name. Christians has Jesus. Jews has Jehova. Buddhist has Siddharta Gautama. Even Hinduism and Confusianism have their own god’s name. Each god is different to each other. And, I believe, their followers have different manner too. Islam strickly forbid free sex life style. However, Christians with their rule make its follower cheat even swinger coz all their followers sin taken for granted will count to Jesus the savior and write off by their priests.
In fact, unfortunately all religions in this planet earth where human being must live with different god in their head. Thus all believers of religion brawl each other and claim “my god is the right god and my faith is the right path.” I have only simply question, on what term you decide you have right god, right faith, and right path? Who do define who is right or wrong? We don’t judge something (and religion for me is sacred thing) base on our appetite, I believe.
I just wonder why do Christians in Indonesia (I ask my American friend, there is no Allah word in American English Bible) become Quartet? What do happen to faith in trinity for Indonesian Christians? I wonder it because one of the Three Tenors has passed away? Or, all the actors of the Three Stooges have died along years ago. Thus, Christians in Indonesia put a word Allah in their Bible.
I do have a question to Indonesian Christians. If god in Christianity become four, then how their share their role and time? When, let say, Jesus act as god, where are the others? Then when, let say, father in heaven plays role as god, where are the others too? I remind to all Indonesian Christian, you make your faith more difficult to understand take Allah in your Bible.
But, oh my mind, I really forget, why Christians don’t accept for NO ANSWER:
Coz they are brainwashed repressed suckers who think that just coz they are gullible enough to think that coz there lives are sh*t then all of a sudden they have a “family” its their right to try and get other like minded gullible fools to join and on their bullsh*t coz you are trash until you admit that you are weak and a dirty sinner and join the cult of Christianity where you will give a 10% tithe to belong and you will become weak and a sheep (which are possibly the most retarded and stupid animals with no free thought).To someone ask me about why I say the world is not round but flat I guess this stupid person read a book written by Thomas Friedman titled “The World is Flat.” But, if you still can’t read it, you can go to Harvard Library and ask Mr. Philip Larkin. I believe you can ask him to tell about one of his poem. Listen it, this:
They f*ck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.But they were f*cked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.Man hands on misery to man.
In deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.This Be The Verse – a poem by Philip Larkin
Ooops.
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This moron says: “In fact you can also refer to the Arabic speaking Jews, who use the same word, even the pre Islamic Arabic Pagans used the word.”
Did this moron learn the history? A word Allah was exactly appearing when Muhammad conveying Islam. If this moron read Quran, there are so many word written in Arabic language still can transliterate by human even by Arabic language experts themselves such as yassin, alif lam mim etc. Those words are some prove that Quran is not human-made. Pagans call their gods illa and you call your gods, “Eli eli lima sabaktani.”
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Subrata says:
Hey Chris Alexandria,
Does pak Dewanto know you are using his account to post comments here?
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Ade Wanto said:
Is it true Moslems are brainwashed?
Ade, I think you already answered that question in your last post, I would also add that you sound deluded and possibly mentally unstable, if your childishly foul language attack on the female posters here is anything to go by.
It is your choice to ignore the plain verses of Al Quran and historical facts, I think you are beyond any help.
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It is your choice to ignore the plain verses of Al Quran and historical facts, I think you are beyond any help.
dewaratugedeanom Says:
Mohammed Khafi seems a devout, wise and upright man, quoting from the wrong Book.Where are the plain verses and historical facts you post? What’s verse? What’s fact?
However, I guess you are the one must find any help. Mebbe your teacher shall do it at least ask them what the meaning of illa before you can claim yourself understand Islam.
Whoops.
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I really don’t know why I am wasting my time with you, but I cannot simply allow you to spread your nonsense!
Ade Wanto said:
Pagans call their gods illa
I have already shown you what the transliterated arabic word ‘Illa’ means in a previous post:
“Illa” means only, but, if not, except.
Why would the pagans call their god, only, but, if not, or except?
I think you mean ILAH which is the pagan word for god, this is also part of Al-ILAH, which contracted forms the arabic word Allah. Al meaning ‘the’ and ilah, meaning god.
In the form Allah it was used by the Arabic pagans to denote the creator god.Ade Wanto said:
A word Allah was exactly appearing when Muhammad conveying Islam.
Well that is very strange, if that truely is the case, how did Prophet Mohammed’s father have the name Abdullah? Which in Arabic has the meaning “Servant of Allah” especially as his father died 6 months before Prophet Mohammed was born.
Keep them coming Ade, the truth will win, every time you post you show how lacking in knowledge and common sense you actually are, what really troubles me the most is that you actually think you are a muslim!
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What is your say its yours. I don’t have any comment on that. Btw, ask yourself, do you a moslem even you put your name from Arabic language? If you think you want become an Arabic Linguist, its yours. I just wonder how much they pay you to convince everybody that Allah is illa for every religion in this universe? Allah is illa for only Moslems. Other religion has their own god’s name (whatsoever their god’s name their already have one).
If you think all religion has only one god and there is Allah, its yours. But, for me, I really don’t think Jesus is Allah. I don’t think Jehova is Allah. I don’t think Betara Wisnu is Allah. I don’t think Siddharta Gautama is Allah. I don’t think Kwan Im the goddes is Allah. I don’t even think that the truth its yours. Allah was the word that to whom Allah tell Muhammad to answer question who is your god, Ahmad? And, Muhammad says, Allah. If you think, Jesus was saying the same thing, please transliterate this quote, ”
Elli, elli, lima sabaktani.
” I wonder to whom Jesus call to? So, ask your English teacher. Ellias Pical? Or, who was Jesus call? Elli, illa, god?
Don’t show off your stupidity. Be ashame please.
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Ade Wanto said:
If you think, Jesus was saying the same thing, please transliterate this quote,”
“Elli, elli, lima sabaktani?”
or perhaps,
“Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?”
or perhaps again,
“Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?”— which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” ( Matthew 27:45-46, NIV)
The phrase is already transliterated Ade, it was transliterated from the original Aramaic/Hebrew into Greek and then transliterated from Greek into English.
Just in case you don’t know what transliteration means: it means ‘to represent (letters or words) in the corresponding characters of another alphabet.’
The words which you are reading are the representative sounds of the Aramaic/Hebrew text/language written in Roman Lettering.
But what did you expect to prove by that point? do you forget that Allah has sent messengers to all peoples in their own tongues:
And We never sent a messenger save with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise. 14:4
As for the Names of Allah, they obviously changed with the peoples to whom the messages were sent.
For the Jews with Torah he used the Hebrew words, Yaweh or Elohim, For the Aramaic speaking Jews to whom he sent Gospels it was Elli, Eli, or Eloi, for the Arabs speakers it was Allah.
Say (O Muhammad SAW): “I am only a man like you. It has been inspired to me that your Ilah (God) is One Ilah (God i.e. Allah). So whoever hopes for the Meeting with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord.”18:110
Allah! La ilahla illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He)! To Him belong the Best Names.20:8
He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best Names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.59:24
And most importantly for you:
And (all) the Most Beautiful Names belong to Allah, so call on Him by them, and leave the company of those who belie or deny (or utter impious speech against) His Names. They will be requited for what they used to do.7:180
Ade Wanto said:
If you think all religion has only one god and there is Allah, its yours. But, for me, I really don’t think Jesus is Allah. I don’t think Jehova is Allah. I don’t think Betara Wisnu is Allah. I don’t think Siddharta Gautama is Allah. I don’t think Kwan Im the goddes is Allah.
I have never said that these other examples you have given are God and it really doesn’t matter who you think is Allah, that decision will only be made by Allah.
All that I have said is that there is only one God, something that is clearly stated over and over again in Al Quran.
What I find most disturbing, is that somebody who has such a limited understanding of the all encompassing nature of Allah should think themselves clever enough to decide who Allah has inspired and who he hasn’t, and also what names Allah has decided to use for himself for other peoples and other races and other languages.
Ade Wanto said:
Allah is illa for only Moslems.
The problem you have here Ade is your narrow view of what it is to be a Muslim, you seem to have decided that there were no Muslims before the Prophet Mohammed when you said:
Allah was the word that to whom Allah tell Muhammad to answer question who is your god, Ahmad? And, Muhammad says, Allah.
But that is not the case:
And strive hard in Allahs Cause as you ought to strive. He has chosen you , and has not laid upon you in religion any hardship, it is the religion of your father Ibrahim. It is He Who has named you Muslims both before and in this, that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you be witnesses over mankind! So perform the Prayer, give Alms and hold fast to Allah. He is your Guardian, what an Excellent Guardian and what an Excellent Helper! 22:78
And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; “Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam.” 2:132
As for your last comment, I will leave it to the readers here to decide to whom this most suitably applies.
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Susan says:
Tuan,
You are not reading this article very carefully. The government is not just ‘investigating’ the situation, it is trying to coerce these people into returning to Islam. Just what do you think telling these people to go home and think about it is supposed to mean? The government is not ‘investigating’ it is intimidating these people. If it were carrying out a legitimate investigation it would be investigating the Muslims who are pelting the homes of these Baha’is.
Contrary to what Phil thinks, Indonesia was not always this way. Traditionally it has been a pluralistic and open society. What happened? In a word, Wahhabism. If you are looking for problematic ‘sect’ of Islam it is these neo-Kharijites.
Regarding rape.
You are quoting from the Old Testament. As has been pointed out its laws are not much different from Islam, but they are not practiced in Christianity. Rape is a crime, and the perpetrator is punished for it rather than arresting the victim as has happened in Iran and Pakistan.
Susan
__________
Jamma wrote:
“I’m going to stop short of accusing Muhammad of plagiarism here, but I mean basically it is a rehash of the old testament hmmm? Hellfire, Brimstone, prophets, unbelievers, idols”¦ nothing new there”¦ “
There is no hellfire and brimstone in the Old Testament. It is all from the New Testament, mostly Jesus’ own words. As for Plagiarism (and I’m not sure how an illiterate man plagiarizes) just because a new Messenger repeats much of what was already there doesn’t make it plagiarism, it may just make it true. The Golden Rule was not not peculiar to Christ. Pharisees already articulated it as a principle, as they had stressing love for God and ones neighbor.
But really, all this discussion is taking us far from the issue, which ought to be,if the the governments persecution of Baha’is and those of other religions is wrong and unIslamic, what are true Muslims going to do about it? Are they going to tell the government what they think and protest this injustice? Because if not, they become a part of it.
Susan
___________
Tuan quoted the following hadith:
“”¦I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listened to me directly.
Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people. ” – Muhammad’s SAW last sermon”
The problem Tuan is that there are different versions of this hadith. According to Shi’ites Muhammad said he left behind two things, “the Qur’an and my family.”
Whose to say whose account is right? That’s the problem with oral traditions. On the other hand, Muhammad Khafi needs to recognize that if you throw out the hadith entirely you have little with which to interpret the Qur’an. There was a guy in Arizona (Rashid Khalifa) who tried to do this and he ended up becoming a cult leader because the hadith and sunna were merely replaced by his own idiosyncratic understandings.
Maybe the Baha’is are right. What we really need is a new religion, one born in the full light of history (which Islam was not.)
_____________________
Tuan wrote:
“Just as how poor and/or uneducated Christians in America will respond if they see a mosque bulit in their small hometown, or if one of their relatives converts to Islam.”
If poor and uneducated Christians pelt the homes of Muslims with rocks the *Christians* will be arrested. The government will not gather the Muslims together and try and pressure them to return to Christianity and ominiously issue threats that they should go home and think about it. The American government would uphold the First Amendment freedom of religion instead of ‘investigating’ whether they can charge these people with blasphemy.
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Bill says:
That which makes the Baha’i Faith anathema to Muslims is that Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah (Arabic: “the Glory of God”) is the Manifestation of God for this age, that He is the One promised in all the religions of the past and is the source of divine revelation just as Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad were. The Baha’i Faith actually has two Messengers: a forerunner to Baha’u’llah who took the title of the Bab (“the Gate”), and Baha’u’llah. To Sunni Islam, they are respectively the Mahdi and the return of Jesus Christ.
The purpose of the Baha’i Faith is to unite all the peoples of the world in one universal cause and one common faith. It teaches that there is one transcendent and supreme God, Who has revealed Himself progressively throughout history through a series of Manifestations (mazhar ilahi). There is therefore only one faith of God, refined and re-energized every millennium or so by one of these Manifestations or Messengers. The great universal/world religions are part of that one religion. Each iteration of this divine religion goes through a process of dynamism, growth, establishment of a civilization, and dissipation of the spiritual impulse, leading to a fresh revelation.
Baha’is accept as authenticated scripture all of the revelations of Baha’u’llah, as well as the Qur’an, and the Bible. The Baha’i Faith explicitly teaches certain principles which some might call progressive, such as the spiritual, social and legal equality of women and men; the need for an international federation and collective security to establish peace; elimination of prejudice and racism; and many more. But most important is the belief in one God, one religion, and one humanity. Baha’is pray, fast, make pilgrimage to holy sites, give to charity and the like, just as all other spiritually aware people do – whether they call themselves Jewish, Christian, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, Hindu, or Muslim.
The threatening of Baha’is in Muslim countries is not a good business. It will not redound to the good name of Islam, whose truth Baha’is in the West defend. If the Baha’i Faith is false, it will not need threats and government force to prevent its spread, because falsehood cannot prevail. If Baha’u’llah is indeed the revealer of God’s Word, then nothing on earth can stop its spread, no matter how righteous a persecutor may feel himself to be.
Dear Muslim brothers and sisters, do not cause a shadow to pass across the luminous face of the Prophet. The Qur’an calls on you not to reject the truth and not to be unjust and persecute others. Did not His Holiness Muhammad forgive His enemies when He made pilgrimage to Mecca, even though the Meccan idolaters had denied Him the right to enter the city the first time He approached it. Yet He did not curse them, persecute them, or cause them harm. If the Prophet could shed His light upon idolaters, surely Muslims, who follow Him, can show good will and compassion to Baha’is who believe in the one true God and the successive the Messengers.
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This moron says: Just in case you don’t know what transliteration means: it means ‘to represent (letters or words) in the corresponding characters of another alphabet.’
And says: But what did you expect to prove by that point? do you forget that Allah has sent messengers to all peoples in their own tongues:
And says: Mohammed’s father have the name Abdullah? Which in Arabic has the meaning “Servant of Allah” especially as his father died 6 months before Prophet Mohammed was born.
Me:
Even your name from Arabic language, it does not make you have more knowledge about Islam. Or, do you wanna be a Snouck Hurgronje?
Laa illa ha illa Allah
It crystal clear illa means god, elli, eloi, tuhan or whatever. As an Arabic Language expert as you claim, please show me, tell me, elaborate what the meaning and function of the word “ha” in between “illa.”
Islam that state in Quran is in Quraish dialect Arabic language. FYI, in Arabs there are hundreds tribes and dialects. And, many years before Muhammad was conveying Islam, so many people was calling their god, “illa” or “illah” (depend on their dialect) however they don’t call their god as Allah.
I believe, those are many names contain illa or illah too. But, for sure, there is no name contain word Allah, such as:
Abdulla, Abdilla, Abdalla, Fadilla, Faradilla, Nasrulla, etc
and in other dialect:
Abdullah, Abdillah, Abdallah, Fadillah, Faradillah, Nasrullah, etc
So please don’t show off your stupidity and be ashame, moron.
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Susan said:
Muhammad Khafi needs to recognize that if you throw out the hadith entirely you have little with which to interpret the Qur’an.
Allah, states that Al Quran is complete, perfect and fully detailed. If that is correct, then it needs no interpretation, if the statements made by Allah are incorrect then Allah has lied, and Islam is a fake and phony manmade religion!
I don’t think Allah lied.
I will stick to my interpretation, using historical fact to place the verses into context, as my interpretation allows for an Islam of Peace, freedom, tolerance, understanding, intelligent reasoning, equality, and no compulsion. And most importantly allows the goodness of Al Quran to be freed from the predjudiced view points of middle ages, male, Islamic so called scholars, who have used Hadith to twist the pure teachings of God into an ugly distorted parody of what was Gods intentions.
Gods scriptures, all of them, were sent to release people from political, economic and physical tyranny, unfortunately they have been twisted by clerics and scholars of all religions to enforce and impose these facets of evil which the scriptures were sent to destroy.
Peace
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again, this moron says,
“what it is to be a Muslim, you seem to have decided that there were no Muslims before the Prophet Mohammed“me:
Hundreds years before Muhammad, there are so many apostles sent forth to particular tribe include prophets: Abraham, David, Moses, and Isa. Quran says that those people to whom follow Abraham, David, Moses, and Isa are the People of the Book (Ahlulkitaba or Ahlulkitabi). It crystal clear they Allah and Quran never call them as Moslem. But, for sure, David followers, Moses followers, and Isa followers as like Muhammad followers, as Quran stated that Abraham is the father of monotheistic religion in this earth that religion which I believe continue by Islam until this end of the world (that’s why Islam commemorate Abraham and his family life in Hajj ritual).
Thus, I believe, if nowadays there are many religions that different to each other, I have a suggestion: As human being which god’s gift as brain and heart, every single human must use their freely thought to find the Real. However if someone think that the Real is Buddhism, it’s ok. Then if other one’s think that the Real is Hinduism, it’s ok too. Also, if one’s think that the Real is Christianity, what should I say, it’s ok too. If I think the Real is Islam and I heed it, it mustn’t make anybody else tell me, “In the name of god, your faith must be save.” As there are may ways to go to Rome, there are too many ways to reach heaven and god (whatsoever your gods and heaven). I do believe, also there are many gates to enter the heaven of Allah. So, why don’t we live by our differences rather than mock each other?
So I quote this moron says:
As for your last comment, I will leave it to the readers here to decide to whom this most suitably applies.
Whoops!About Bahai and other sect or cult in Islam:
I believe as human we have self determination and freedom. But, in Islamic culture, if someone says (something like these:), “I am moslem but I reject Muhammad as Prophet.” and/or “I am moslem but I believe there is another prophet after Muhammad.” and/or “I am moslem therefore I guarantee all of you to reach the heaven for sum of money.” The other moslems have an obligation to warn those people which claim they are moslems but they thought is totally different from Quran abd Hadist. Accordingly, in Islam, those issues are not about freedom. However. if they don’t claim themselves as moslems, I believe, there are no warning from other moslems. If Bahai can live in another country outside Indonesia, I don’t think that Indonesian people or govt matter, its theirs. -
Ade Wanto said:
Laa illa ha illa Allah
It crystal clear illa means god, elli, eloi, tuhan or whatever. As an Arabic Language expert as you claim, please show me, tell me, elaborate what the meaning and function of the word “ha” in between “illa.”
Ade we have already had that lesson, have you forgotten so quickly or did you not pay attention the first time around?
Firstly the phrase is 4 words and not 5, ‘La Ilaha Illa Illah’“La” means no, nothing, negating of what follows.
“Ilaha” means Deity, God, One to be worshipped, One who has power to satisfy your needs and answer your prayer, One who is in control of your affairs, One who can comfort you; provide protection and support for you.
“Illa” means only, but, if not, except.
“Illah” means Allah, Al-lah! ( A contraction of Al-Ilaha, The God)
No God, but The God.
Ade Wanto said:
Hundreds years before Muhammad, there are so many apostles sent forth to particular tribe include prophets: Abraham, David, Moses, and Isa. Quran says that those people to whom follow Abraham, David, Moses, and Isa are the People of the Book (Ahlulkitaba or Ahlulkitabi). It crystal clear they Allah and Quran never call them as Moslem.
But Allah in Al Quran says:
“22:78 وجاهدوا ÙÙŠ الله ØÙ‚ جهاده هو اجتباكم وماجعل عليكم ÙÙŠ الدين من Øرج ملة ابيكم ابراهيم هو سماكم المسلمين من قبل ÙˆÙÙŠ هذا ليكون الرسول شهيدا عليكم وتكونوا شهداء على الناس Ùاقيموا الصلاة واتوا الزكاة واعتصموا بالله هو مولاكم Ùنعم المولى ونعم النصيرAnd strive hard in Allahs Cause as you ought to strive. He has chosen you , and has not laid upon you in religion any hardship, it is the religion of your father Ibrahim. It is He Who has named you Muslims both before and in this , that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you be witnesses over mankind! So perform the Prayer, give Alms and hold fast to Allah. He is your Guardian, what an Excellent Guardian and what an Excellent Helper! 22:78
Ade Wanto said:
Islam that state in Quran is in Quraish dialect Arabic language. FYI, in Arabs there are hundreds tribes and dialects. And, many years before Muhammad was conveying Islam, so many people was calling their god, “illa” or “illah” (depend on their dialect) however they don’t call their god as Allah.
From Colliers Encyclopedia:
Archaeological, linguistic, and non-Arabic data support the view that there were among the Arabs, long before the emergence of Islam, worshipers of a supreme god known as Allah…leaves little doubt that the Meccans, despite their idolatry, recognized that Allah was Creator and Supreme Provider…Allah was recognized as a High God to whom the inhabitants of the desert and the townsfolk turned in all great difficulties. Two pagan bards, Nabighah and Labid, used the name “Allâh” in connection with the Supreme Deity, while the so-called Hanifs, in their search for an acceptable religion, rejected polytheism and sought freedom from sin by appeal to the will of Allah.From ‘Pre Islamic Arabian Thought by Shaikh Inayatullah , M.A Ph.D., Formerly, Professor of Arabic, University of the Panjab, Lahore (Pakistan)’
Judging by the evidence furnished by the pre”‘Islamic poets, polemical pasÂsages in the Qur’an and the later Islamic literature, idolatry based on polyÂtheism prevailed throughout ancient Arabia. Almost every tribe had its own god, which was the centre of its religious life and the immediate object of its devotion. The ancient Arabs, however, at the same time believed in the existence of a Supreme God, whom they called Allah. But this belief was rather vague and their faith in Him was correspondingly weak. They might invoke Allah in time of danger, but as soon as the danger was over they forgot all about Him. They also recognized and worshipped a large number of other subordinate gods along with Him, or at least thought that they would interÂcede for them with Him. Three deities in particular, viz., al”‘`Uzza, al”‘Manat, and al”‘Lat, were accorded special veneration as the daughters of Allah. It was this association of subordinate deities with Allah which is technically known as shirk (association of gods with Allah) and which was condemned by the Prophet as an unpardonable sin. Shirk was held in special abhorrence, as it obscured belief in the oneness of God.
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On 12/23/07, Indonesia Matters wrote:
> There is a new comment on the post “Bahai”.
> https://indonesiamatters.com/1465/bahai/
>
> Author: Mohammed Khafi
> Comment:
> Susan said:
>
>Muhammad Khafi needs to recognize that if you throw out the hadith entirely you have little with which to interpret the Qur’an.
>
> Allah, states that Al Quran is complete, perfect and fully detailed. If that is correct, then it needs no interpretation,Dear M. Khafi,
Then why does the Qur’an say, ‘none knoweth its interpretation safe God”?
if the statements made by Allah are incorrect then Allah has lied,
and Islam is a fake and phony manmade religion!> > I will stick to my interpretation, using historical fact to place the verses into context,
That’s my point. There are no historical accounts of Muhammad’s life
other than those based on hadiths. Otherwise what is the source of
your ‘historical facts;?I well recognize the problems of relying on hadith, but perhaps rather
than throwing out these accounts altogether what is needed is a new
‘science of hadith’ one that uses modern historical methods to
determine the likely authenticity of certain hadiths in order to place
the Qur’an within its proper context.ma salamat,
Susan
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Someone wrote:
“I believe as human we have self determination and freedom. But, in Islamic culture, if someone says (something like these:), “I am moslem but I reject Muhammad as Prophet.” and/or “I am moslem but I believe there is another prophet after Muhammad.” and/or “I am moslem therefore I guarantee all of you to reach the heaven for sum of money.” The other moslems have an obligation to warn those people which claim they are moslems but they thought is totally different from Quran abd Hadist. Accordingly, in Islam, those issues are not about freedom. However. if they don’t claim themselves as moslems, I believe, there are no warning from other moslems. If Bahai can live in another country outside Indonesia, I don’t think that Indonesian people or govt matter, its theirs.”
Baha’is, unlike the Ahmadis, do not claim to be Muslims so this should not be an issue. Besides that, Muslims are entitled to warn others about whomsoever they want to. That is part of freedom of speech, after all. The issue here is about active persecution (by throwing rocks at thier houses) and government harrassment of Baha’is (interrogations, tell them to go home and think about which *legal* religion they want to follow, etc.) Most people do not have a choice as to which country they will live in. It sounds like here that we are talking about humble villagers who have become Baha’i. Are you willing to provide them with the means to immigrate to America so they can practice their religion freely? If so, I’m sure they will have hundreds of thousands of new converts but probably not the most sincere ones. ;-}
warmest, Susan
Comment on “Bahai”.
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Ade Wanto said:
Ade Sura Al Ma’idah Ayat 47 in the quote above clearly contains the Arabic word إنجيل , (Injil also transcribed Injeel)
I don’t know what you hope to achieve by your posts but you are clearly displaying a lack of knowledge and experience. Your frequent outbusts of childishly foul and abusive language would suggest that you are also a little too immature to contribute much to this forum which is really meant for adults only!
Peace