Bahai
Nov 1st, 2007, in News, by PatungMuslims converting to Bahai.
Thirty-one Muslims in the Donggala area of Central Sulawesi have become apostates and converted to the Bahá’à religion, it is said, inviting the anger of their neighbours who are sticking firm to Islam, and the displeasure of the local bureaucracy.
The head of the Religious Affairs Office in Palolo sub-district said that the Bahai faith, led by one Mulahi, a former marriage counsellor, entered Banpers village in the 1990s, and Mulahi had persuaded 31 local people to convert.
But some Muslims in the village are not taking it lying down:
The homes of the Bahai followers in Banpers are often pelted with stones.
Nor is the local government, which held a meeting between concerned Muslims and the Bahaists in September, 2007, wherein the Bahai adherents were warned to have a think about which religion they wanted to belong to, either Islam, like before, or another religion which was recognised by the government, because Bahai is not. Another meeting will be held soon, to find out whether the Bahaists have had enough thinking time. antara
The Department of Religion (Depag) has also sent down an investigative team, says Muhammad Ramli in Palu, and they will have to decide whether Bahai is a sect within Islam. If so, then the converts, or their leaders, can likely be prosecuted for blasphemy. Depag also wants to find out how Bahai has been spread in the area, because if it is being preached at people who already hold a religion, then that may also constitute a crime, he said. antara
November 8th. Two out of the seven households that converted to Bahai are said to have returned to Islam, after the two heads of the households, Mulahi (70) and Muslimin (40), met with local leaders. Four others refused to change back to Islam, while the seventh did not turn up. antara
395 Comments on “Bahai”
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Stefan says:
ade wanto wrote:
However, what do Christians give punishment to adulteries? Please read Luke 6:27-30. Injil crystal clear mention about punishment to adulteries: Your eyes must gouge out if you commit to adulteries and then your hands must be amputate. Though many Christians as they say obey their Lord, they really never heed to their own Book.
That’s wrong. Luke 6:27-30 (NIV) is:
27 But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who ill-treat you. 29 If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.
I don’t see there anything about adulterers. But you can read John 8:1-11. This is about adultery:
1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered round him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say? 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her. 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, Woman, where are they? Has no-one condemned you? 11 No-one, sir, she said. Then neither do I condemn you, Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin. -
Ade Wanto says:
Hello iamisaid,
As a human being, we can live by open minded, can’t we. And, for sure, we have to out the box sometimes. From the first time I have been writing posts in this site (I really honour Patung for this), I believe many things we can discuss. Even we agree to disagree on something, we don’t have to compulsive anybody. As, a moslem, I do believe my Allah don’t wanna make all human being be a moslem. Even, Abu Muthalib, the Uncle of Muhammad (PBUH) himself never force to be a moslem.
I just ask myself why do we make quarrel to each other in reason to defend our differences. Why don’t we make a compromising way to save humanity and life itself? Is it true our task from our God (WHATSOEVER your gods is) to force other to do “our real right path” therefore if don’t we kill each other?
I really don’t believe if you can easily convert your religion to other just like you swallow your gum. For me, someone who truly convert his/her religion to other religion (not just a matter of economically reason or marriage reason or something like that. But the convert is really to be a true believer) need a great effort similarly to be a prophet. It is really a hard way that those climb to someone to convert her/his religion. But, still it’s so easy if you just change your name of religion in your ID card.
Of course, if you ask me about Islam I can answer just for information. It is not to defend nor compulsory it. I believe Islam (read: Allah, the Prophet, and Quran) don’t need my defending. What for? And, however, if anybody ill, humiliate and disgrace my belief, I shall fight back at all cost. No doubt it! If you donno about Islam, its yours. And, if I do have just a little knowledge about other religion, that’s me. But, for me what is your believe is yours. What am I believe, it’s mine. You don’t have to worship what I worship nor I don’t have to worship yours.
iamisaid says, “….man can still be united in diversity.”
Hey, don’t forget to my mother and all my women too, man? Just kidding me.
Yes, we have to enforce ourselves to live in diversities. For many years all our Fathers told us that there is only “one right path way” to reach god and heaven. And, they define by themselves “the right path way” that we must heed if don’t we go to the hell (WHATSOEVER hell is). So peoples claim that they hold “the right path way” if we have different thoughts from them we must to be killed. Thus I’am offering a kind of perspective, that I believe, this world could be safer for our children future shake.
And, it will be better if I quote again this: “Beware of those who say that the sacred texts speak for themselves.”
Let’s Make Safer World!
You can meet me here, man
http://apps.facebook.com/causes/view_cause/1687 -
Mohammed Khafi says:
Ade Wanto said:
Is it true that Quran mention about Injeel? Whoops. As far as I know Quran mention only about the People of the Book and Jesus -son of Mary- to whom Allah sent forth as an apostle to Israelities (Bani Israel). As a world Injeel was introduced by Christians not in Quran. I still can’t find a word Injeel in Quran. Could you show me where is the verse in Quran that contain a word “Injeel”?
I then proceeded to give you a list of the verses, I have printed them below for you.
After being shown the relevant verses which contain the word Injeel Ade Wanto went on to say:
What you say is yours. I don’ give a f*cking damn to what you have read!
If you really capable to read Arabic you simply can read a difference between kitaba and injil. Read again 12 verses that you quote! And, ask all your teachers what its sound: kitaba or injil. I have never heard ahlulinjil. In all my life, all Quran reader that word sound ahlulkitaba. There is no ahlulinjil! The word injil performs in verse 3:3 to describe that Quran has revealed in those Books (Torah and Injil).
I will give you the verses in Arabic, transliterated Arabic and Bahasa Indonesia, I am sure that you can find somebody who can read one of those for you, as you are obviously incapable yourself.
5:46
ÙˆÙŽÙ‚ÙŽÙَّيْنَا عَلَى آثَارÙÙ‡Ùمْ بÙعÙيسَى ابْن٠مَرْيَمَ Ù…ÙصَدّÙقا Ù‹ Ù„Ùمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْه٠مÙÙ†ÙŽ التَّوْرَاة٠وَآتَيْنَاه٠الإÙنجÙيلَ ÙÙيه ÙÙ Ù‡Ùدى Ù‹ ÙˆÙŽÙ†Ùور ÙŒ ÙˆÙŽÙ…ÙصَدّÙقا Ù‹ Ù„Ùمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْه٠مÙÙ†ÙŽ التَّوْرَاة٠وَهÙدى Ù‹ وَمَوْعÙظَة Ù‹ Ù„ÙلْمÙتَّقÙينَ
Wa QaffaynÄ `Alá ‘Ä€thÄrihim Bi`Ä«sá Abni Maryama MuÅŸaddiqÄan LimÄ Bayna Yadayhi Mina At-TawrÄati Wa ‘Ä€taynÄhu Al-‘InjÄ«la FÄ«hi Hudáan Wa NÅ«run Wa MuÅŸaddiqÄan LimÄ Bayna Yadayhi Mina At-TawrÄati Wa Hudáan Wa Maw`ižatan LilmuttaqÄ«na
Dan Kami iringkan jejak mereka (nabi-nabi Bani Israil) dengan Isa putera Maryam, membenarkan Kitab yang sebelumnya, yaitu : Taurat. Dan Kami telah memberikan kepadanya kitab Injil sedang di dalamnya (ada) petunjuk dan cahaya (yang menerangi), dan membenarkan kitab yang sebelumnya, yaitu kitab Taurat. Dan menjadi petunjuk serta pengajaran untuk orang-orang yang bertaqwa.
5:47
وَلْيَØْكÙمْ أَهْل٠الإÙنجÙيل٠بÙمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّه٠ÙÙيه Ù٠وَمَنْ لَمْ ÙŠÙŽØْكÙمْ بÙمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّه٠ÙÙŽØ£ÙوْلَائÙÙƒÙŽ Ù‡Ùم٠الْÙَاسÙÙ‚Ùونَ
Wa LÄ«aÄ¥kum ‘Ahlu Al-‘InjÄ«li BimÄ ‘Anzala AllÄhu FÄ«hi Wa Man Lam YaÄ¥kum BimÄ ‘Anzala AllÄhu Fa’Å«lÄ’ika Humu Al-FÄsiqÅ«na
Dan hendaklah orang-orang pengikut Injil, memutuskan perkara menurut apa yang diturunkan Allah di dalamnya. Barangsiapa tidak memutuskan perkara menurut apa yang diturunkan Allah, maka mereka itu adalah orang-orang yang fasik.
5:66
وَلَوْ أَنَّهÙمْ أَقَامÙوا التَّوْرَاةَ وَالإÙنجÙيلَ وَمَا Ø£ÙنزÙÙ„ÙŽ Ø¥ÙلَيْهÙمْ Ù…Ùنْ رَبّÙÙ‡Ùمْ Ù„ÙŽØ£ÙŽÙƒÙŽÙ„Ùوا Ù…Ùنْ ÙَوْقÙÙ‡Ùمْ ÙˆÙŽÙ…Ùنْ تَØْت٠أَرْجÙÙ„ÙÙ‡Ùمْ Ù…ÙنْهÙمْ Ø£Ùمَّة ÙŒ Ù…ÙقْتَصÙدَة ÙŒ ÙˆÙŽÙƒÙŽØ«Ùير ÙŒ Ù…ÙنْهÙمْ سَاءَ مَا يَعْمَلÙونَ
Wa Law ‘Annahum ‘AqÄmÅ« At-TawrÄata Wa Al-‘InjÄ«la Wa MÄ ‘Unzila ‘Ilayhim Min Rabbihim La’akalÅ« Min Fawqihim Wa Min TaÄ¥ti ‘Arjulihim Minhum ‘Ummatun MuqtaÅŸidatun Wa KathÄ«run Minhum SÄ’a MÄ Ya`malÅ«na
Dan sekiranya mereka sungguh-sungguh menjalankan (hukum) Taurat, Injil dan (Al-Qur’an) yang diturunkan kepada mereka dari Rabbnya, niscaya mereka akan mendapat makanan dari atas mereka dan dari bawah kaki mereka. Diantara mereka ada golongan yang pertengahan. Dan alangkah buruknya apa yang dikerjakan oleh kebanyakan mereka.
5:68
Ù‚Ùلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكÙتَاب٠لَسْتÙمْ عَلَى شَيْء٠Øَتَّى تÙÙ‚ÙيمÙوا التَّوْرَاةَ وَالإÙنجÙيلَ وَمَا Ø£ÙنزÙÙ„ÙŽ Ø¥ÙلَيْكÙمْ Ù…Ùنْ رَبّÙÙƒÙمْ وَلَيَزÙيدَنَّ ÙƒÙŽØ«Ùيرا Ù‹ Ù…ÙنْهÙمْ مَا Ø£ÙنزÙÙ„ÙŽ Ø¥Ùلَيْكَ Ù…Ùنْ رَبّÙÙƒÙŽ Ø·Ùغْيَانا Ù‹ ÙˆÙŽÙƒÙÙْرا Ù‹ Ùَلاَ تَأْسَ عَلَى الْقَوْم٠الْكَاÙÙرÙينَ
Qul YÄ ‘Ahla Al-KitÄbi Lastum `Alá Shay’in Ĥattá TuqÄ«mÅ« At-TawrÄata Wa Al-‘InjÄ«la Wa MÄ ‘Unzila ‘Ilaykum Min Rabbikum Wa LayazÄ«danna KathÄ«rÄan Minhum MÄ ‘Unzila ‘Ilayka Min Rabbika Å¢ughyÄnÄan Wa KufrÄan FalÄ Ta’sa `Alá Al-Qawmi Al-KÄfirÄ«na
Katakanlah: “Hai Ahli Kitab, kamu tidak dipandang beragama sedikitpun hingga kamu menegakkan ajaran-ajaran Taurat, Injil dan Al-Qur’an yang diturunkan kepadamu dari Rabbmu”. Sesungguhnya apa yang diturunkan kepadamu (Muhammad) dari Rabbmu akan menambah kedurhakaan dan kekafiran kepada kebanyakan dari mereka; maka janganlah kamu bersedih hati terhadap orang-orang yang kafir itu.
5:110
Ø¥Ùذْ قَالَ اللَّه٠يَاعÙيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ اذْكÙرْ Ù†ÙعْمَتÙÙŠ عَلَيْكَ وَعَلى وَالÙدَتÙÙƒÙŽ Ø¥Ùذْ أَيَّدتّÙÙƒÙŽ بÙرÙÙˆØ٠الْقÙدÙس٠تÙكَلّÙم٠النَّاسَ ÙÙÙŠ الْمَهْد٠وَكَهْلا Ù‹ ÙˆÙŽØ¥Ùذْ عَلَّمْتÙÙƒÙŽ الْكÙتَابَ وَالْØÙكْمَةَ وَالتَّوْرَاةَ وَالإÙنجÙيلَ ÙˆÙŽØ¥Ùذْ تَخْلÙÙ‚Ù Ù…ÙÙ†ÙŽ الطّÙين٠كَهَيْئَة٠الطَّيْر٠بÙØ¥ÙذْنÙÙŠ ÙَتَنÙÙخ٠ÙÙيهَا ÙَتَكÙون٠طَيْرا Ù‹ بÙØ¥ÙذْنÙÙŠ وَتÙبْرÙئ٠الأَكْمَه ÙŽÙŽ وَالأَبْرَصَ بÙØ¥ÙذْنÙÙŠ ÙˆÙŽØ¥Ùذْ تÙخْرÙج٠الْمَوْتَى بÙØ¥ÙذْنÙÙŠ ÙˆÙŽØ¥Ùذْ ÙƒÙŽÙÙŽÙْت٠بَنÙÙŠ Ø¥ÙسْرَائÙيلَ عَنْكَ Ø¥Ùذْ جÙئْتَهÙمْ بÙالْبَيّÙنَات٠Ùَقَالَ الَّذÙينَ ÙƒÙŽÙَرÙوا Ù…ÙنْهÙمْ Ø¥Ùنْ هَذَا Ø¥Ùلاَّ سÙØْر ÙŒ Ù…ÙبÙين
‘Idh QÄla AllÄhu YÄ `Īsá Abna Maryama Adhkur Ni`matÄ« `Alayka Wa `Alá Wa A-Datika ‘Idh ‘Ayyadttuka BirÅ«Ä¥i Al-Qudusi Tukallimu An-NÄsa FÄ« Al-Mahdi Wa KahlÄan Wa ‘Idh `Allamtuka Al-KitÄba Wa Al-Ĥikmata Wa At-TawrÄata Wa Al-‘InjÄ«la Wa ‘Idh Takhluqu Mina AÅ£-Ţīni Kahay’ati AÅ£-Å¢ayri Bi’idhnÄ« Fatanfukhu FÄ«hÄ FatakÅ«nu Å¢ayrÄan Bi’idhnÄ« Wa Tubri’u Al-‘Akmaha Wa Al-‘AbraÅŸa Bi’idhnÄ« Wa ‘Idh Tukhriju Al-Mawtá Bi’idhnÄ« Wa ‘Idh Kafaftu BanÄ« ‘IsrÄ’Ä«la `Anka ‘Idh Ji’tahum Bil-BayyinÄti FaqÄla Al-LadhÄ«na KafarÅ« Minhum ‘In HÄdhÄ ‘IllÄ SiÄ¥run MubÄ«nun
(Ingatlah), ketika Allah mengatakan: “Hai ‘Isa putera Maryam, ingatlah ni’mat-Ku kepadamu dan kepada Ibumu diwaktu Aku menguatkan kamu dengan ruhul qudus. Kamu dapat berbicara dengan manusia diwaktu masih dalam buaian dan sesudah dewasa; dan (ingatlah) diwaktu Aku mengajar kamu menulis, hikmah, Taurat dan Injil, dan (ingatlah pula) diwaktu kamu membentuk dari tanah (suatu bentuk) yang berupa burung dengan izin-Ku, kemudian kamu meniup padanya, lalu bentuk itu menjadi burung (yang sebenarnya) dengan seizin-Ku, dan (ingatlah) diwaktu Aku menghalangi Bani Israil (dari keinginan mereka membunuh kamu) dikala kamu mengemukakan kepada mereka keterangan-keterangan yang nyata, lalu orang-orang kafir diantara mereka berkata: “Ini tidak lain sihir yang nyata”.
57:27
Ø«Ùمَّ Ù‚ÙŽÙَّيْنَا عَلَى آثَارÙÙ‡Ùمْ بÙرÙسÙÙ„Ùنَا ÙˆÙŽÙ‚ÙŽÙَّيْنَا بÙعÙيسَى ابْن٠مَرْيَمَ وَآتَيْنَاه٠الإÙنجÙيلَ وَجَعَلْنَا ÙÙÙŠ Ù‚ÙÙ„Ùوب٠الَّذÙينَ اتَّبَعÙوه Ù٠رَأْÙÙŽØ© Ù‹ وَرَØْمَة Ù‹ وَرَهْبَانÙيَّة Ù‹ ابْتَدَعÙوهَا مَا كَتَبْنَاهَا عَلَيْهÙمْ Ø¥Ùلاَّ ابْتÙغَاءَ رÙضْوَان٠اللَّه٠Ùَمَا رَعَوْهَا Øَقَّ رÙعَايَتÙهَا Ùَآتَيْنَا الَّذÙينَ آمَنÙوا Ù…ÙنْهÙمْ أَجْرَهÙمْ ÙˆÙŽÙƒÙŽØ«Ùير ÙŒ Ù…ÙنْهÙمْ ÙَاسÙÙ‚Ùونَ
Thumma QaffaynÄ `Alá ‘Ä€thÄrihim BirusulinÄ Wa QaffaynÄ Bi`Ä«sá Abni Maryama Wa ‘Ä€taynÄhu Al-‘InjÄ«la Wa Ja`alnÄ FÄ« QulÅ«bi Al-LadhÄ«na Attaba`Å«hu Ra’fatan Wa RaÄ¥matan Wa RahbÄnÄ«yatan Abtada`Å«hÄ MÄ KatabnÄhÄ `Alayhim ‘IllÄ AbtighÄ’a RiÄ‘wÄni AllÄhi FamÄ Ra`awhÄ Ä¤aqqa Ri`ÄyatihÄ Fa’ÄtaynÄ Al-LadhÄ«na ‘Ä€manÅ« Minhum ‘Ajrahum Wa KathÄ«run Minhum FÄsiqÅ«na
Kemudian Kami iringi di belakang mereka dengan rasul-rasul Kami dan Kami iringi (pula) dengan Isa putera Maryam; dan Kami berikan kepadanya Injil dan Kami jadikan dalam hati orang-orang yang mengikutinya rasa santun dan kasih sayang. Dan mereka mengada-adakan rahbaniyyah padahal kami tidak mewajibkannya kepada mereka tetapi (mereka sendirilah yang mengada-adakannya) untuk mencari keridhaan Allah, lalu mereka tidak memeliharanya dengan pemeliharaan yang semestinya. Maka Kami berikan kepada orang-orang yang beriman di antara mereka pahalanya dan banyak di antara mereka orang-orang yang fasik.
3:3
نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكÙتَابَ بÙالْØَقّ٠مÙصَدّÙقا Ù‹ Ù„Ùمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْه٠وَأَنْزَلَ التَّوْرَاةَ وَالإÙنْجÙيلَ
Nazzala `Alayka Al-KitÄba Bil-Ĥaqqi MuÅŸaddiqÄan LimÄ Bayna Yadayhi Wa ‘Anzala At-TawrÄata Wa Al-‘InjÄ«la
Dia menurunkan Al-Kitab (Al-Qur’an) kepadamu dengan sebenarnya; membenarkan kitab yang telah diturunkan sebelumnya dan menurunkan Taurat dan Injil.
48:29
Ù…ÙØَمَّد ÙŒ رَسÙول٠اللَّه٠وَالَّذÙينَ مَعَهÙ~٠أَشÙدَّاء٠عَلَى الْكÙÙَّار٠رÙØَمَاء٠بَيْنَهÙمْ تَرَاهÙمْ رÙكَّعا Ù‹ سÙجَّدا Ù‹ يَبْتَغÙونَ Ùَضْلا Ù‹ Ù…ÙÙ†ÙŽ اللَّه٠وَرÙضْوَانا Ù‹ سÙيمَاهÙمْ ÙÙÙŠ ÙˆÙجÙوهÙÙ‡Ùمْ Ù…Ùنْ أَثَر٠السّÙجÙود٠ذَلÙÙƒÙŽ Ù…ÙŽØ«ÙŽÙ„ÙÙ‡Ùمْ ÙÙÙŠ التَّوْرَاة٠وَمَثَلÙÙ‡Ùمْ ÙÙÙŠ الإÙنجÙيل٠كَزَرْع٠أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَه ÙÙ Ùَآزَرَه ÙÙ Ùَاسْتَغْلَظَ Ùَاسْتَوَى عَلَى سÙوقÙÙ‡ ÙÙ ÙŠÙعْجÙب٠الزّÙرَّاعَ Ù„ÙيَغÙيظَ بÙÙ‡Ùم٠الْكÙÙَّارَ وَعَدَ اللَّه٠الَّذÙينَ آمَنÙوا وَعَمÙÙ„Ùوا الصَّالÙØَات٠مÙنْهÙمْ مَغْÙÙرَة Ù‹ وَأَجْراً عَظÙيما
MuÄ¥ammadun RasÅ«lu AllÄhi Wa Al-LadhÄ«na Ma`ahu ‘AshiddÄ’u `Alá Al-KuffÄri RuÄ¥amÄ’u Baynahum TarÄhum Rukka`Äan SujjadÄan YabtaghÅ«na FaÄ‘lÄan Mina AllÄhi Wa RiÄ‘wÄnÄan SÄ«mÄhum FÄ« WujÅ«hihim Min ‘Athari As-SujÅ«di DhÄlika Mathaluhum FÄ« At-TawrÄati Wa Mathaluhum FÄ« Al-‘InjÄ«li Kazar`in ‘Akhraja ShaÅ£’ahu Fa’Äzarahu FÄstaghlaža FÄstawá `Alá SÅ«qihi Yu`jibu Az-ZurrÄ`a Liyaghīža Bihimu Al-KuffÄra Wa`ada AllÄhu Al-LadhÄ«na ‘Ä€manÅ« Wa `AmilÅ« AÅŸ-ÅžÄliÄ¥Äti Minhum Maghfiratan Wa ‘AjrÄan `AžīmÄan
Muhammad itu adalah utusan Allah dan orang-orang yang bersama dia adalah keras terhadap orang-orang kafir, tetapi berkasih sayang sesama mereka: kamu lihat mereka ruku’ dan sujud mencari karunia Allah dan keridhaan-Nya, tanda-tanda mereka tampak pada muka mereka dari bekas sujud. Demikianlah sifat-sifat mereka dalam Taurat dan sifat-sifat mereka dalam Injil, yaitu seperti tanaman mengeluarkan tunasnya maka tunas itu menjadikan tanaman itu kuat lalu menjadi besarlah dia dan tegak lurus di atas pokoknya; tanaman itu menyenangkan hati penanam-penanamnya karena Allah hendak menjengkelkan hati orang-orang kafir (dengan kekuatan orang-orang mu’min). Allah menjanjikan kepada orang-orang yang beriman dan mengerjakan amal yang saleh di antara mereka ampunan dan pahala yang besar.
3:48
ÙˆÙŽÙŠÙعَلّÙÙ…Ùه٠الْكÙتَابَ وَالْØÙكْمَةَ وَالتَّوْرَاةَ وَالإÙنجÙيلَ
Wa Yu`allimuhu Al-KitÄba Wa Al-Ĥikmata Wa At-TawrÄata Wa Al-‘InjÄ«la
Dan Allah akan mengajarkan kepadanya Al-Kitab, Hikmah, Taurat, dan Injil.
3:65
يَا أَهْلَ الْكÙتَاب٠لÙÙ…ÙŽ تÙØَاجّÙونَ ÙÙÙŠ Ø¥ÙبْرَاهÙيمَ وَمَا Ø£ÙنْزÙلَت٠التَّوْرَاة٠وَالإÙنجÙيل٠إÙلاَّ Ù…Ùنْ بَعْدÙÙ‡Ù~٠أَÙَلاَ تَعْقÙÙ„Ùونَ
YÄ ‘Ahla Al-KitÄbi Lima TuÄ¥ÄjjÅ«na FÄ« ‘IbrÄhÄ«ma Wa MÄ ‘Unzilati At-TawrÄatu Wa Al-‘InjÄ«lu ‘IllÄ Min Ba`dihi ‘AfalÄ Ta`qilÅ«na
Hai Ahli Kitab, mengapa kamu bantah-membantah tentang hal Ibrahim, padahal Taurat dan Injil tidak diturunkan melainkan sesudah Ibrahim. Apakah kamu tidak berpikir?
7:157
الَّذÙينَ يَتَّبÙعÙونَ الرَّسÙولَ النَّبÙيَّ الأÙمّÙيَّ الَّذÙÙŠ يَجÙدÙونَه Ù٠مَكْتÙوباً عÙنْدَهÙمْ ÙÙÙŠ التَّوْرَاة٠وَالإÙنجÙيل٠يَأْمÙرÙÙ‡Ùمْ بÙالْمَعْرÙÙˆÙ٠وَيَنْهَاهÙمْ عَن٠الْمÙنكَر٠وَيÙØÙلّ٠لَهÙم٠الطَّيّÙبَات٠وَيÙØَرّÙم٠عَلَيْهÙم٠الْخَبَائÙØ«ÙŽ وَيَضَع٠عَنْهÙمْ Ø¥ÙصْرَهÙمْ وَالأَغْلاَلَ الَّتÙÙŠ كَانَتْ عَلَيْهÙمْ ÙَالَّذÙينَ آمَنÙوا بÙÙ‡ Ù٠وَعَزَّرÙوه Ù٠وَنَصَرÙوه Ù٠وَاتَّبَعÙوا النّÙورَ الَّذÙÙŠ Ø£ÙنزÙÙ„ÙŽ مَعَهÙ~٠أÙوْلَائÙÙƒÙŽ Ù‡Ùم٠الْمÙÙْلÙØÙونَ
Al-LadhÄ«na Yattabi`Å«na Ar-RasÅ«la An-NabÄ«ya Al-‘UmmÄ«ya Al-LadhÄ« YajidÅ«nahu MaktÅ«bÄan `Indahum FÄ« At-TawrÄati Wa Al-‘InjÄ«li Ya’muruhum Bil-Ma`rÅ«fi Wa YanhÄhum `Ani Al-Munkari Wa YuÄ¥illu Lahumu AÅ£-Å¢ayyibÄti Wa YuÄ¥arrimu `Alayhimu Al-KhabÄ’itha Wa YaÄ‘a`u `Anhum ‘IÅŸrahum Wa Al-‘AghlÄla AllatÄ« KÄnat `Alayhim Fa-Al-LadhÄ«na ‘Ä€manÅ« Bihi Wa `AzzarÅ«hu Wa NaÅŸarÅ«hu Wa Attaba`Å« An-NÅ«ra Al-LadhÄ« ‘Unzila Ma`ahu ‘ŪlÄ’ika Humu Al-Mufliĥūna
Yaitu) orang-orang yang mengikut Rasul, Nabi yang ummi yang (namanya) mereka dapati tertulis di dalam Taurat dan Injil yang ada di sisi mereka, yang menyuruh mereka mengerjakan yang ma’ruf dan melarang mereka dari mengerjakan yang mungkar dan menghalalkan bagi mereka segala yang baik dan mengharamkan bagi mereka segala yang buruk dan membuang dari mereka beban-beban dan belenggu-belenggu yang ada pada mereka. Maka orang-orang yang beriman kepadanya, memuliakannya, menolongnya dan mengikuti cahaya yang terang yang diturunkan kepadanya (Al-Qur’an), mereka itulah orang-orang yang beruntung.
9:111
Ø¥Ùنَّ اللَّهَ اشْتَرَى Ù…ÙÙ†ÙŽ الْمÙؤْمÙÙ†Ùينَ Ø£ÙŽÙ†ÙÙسَهÙمْ وَأَمْوَالَهÙمْ بÙأَنَّ Ù„ÙŽÙ‡Ùم٠الْجَنَّةَ ÙŠÙقَاتÙÙ„Ùونَ ÙÙÙŠ سَبÙيل٠اللَّه٠ÙَيَقْتÙÙ„Ùونَ ÙˆÙŽÙŠÙقْتَلÙونَ وَعْداً عَلَيْه٠Øَقّا Ù‹ ÙÙÙŠ التَّوْرَاة٠وَالإÙنجÙيل٠وَالْقÙرْآن٠وَمَنْ أَوْÙÙŽÙ‰ بÙعَهْدÙÙ‡ ÙÙ Ù…ÙÙ†ÙŽ اللَّه٠ÙَاسْتَبْشÙرÙوا بÙبَيْعÙÙƒÙم٠الَّذÙÙŠ بَايَعْتÙمْ بÙÙ‡ ÙÙ ÙˆÙŽØ°ÙŽÙ„ÙÙƒÙŽ Ù‡ÙÙˆÙŽ الْÙَوْز٠الْعَظÙيمÙ
‘Inna AllÄha Ashtará Mina Al-Mu’uminÄ«na ‘Anfusahum Wa ‘AmwÄlahum Bi’anna Lahumu Al-Jannata YuqÄtilÅ«na FÄ« SabÄ«li AllÄhi FayaqtulÅ«na Wa YuqtalÅ«na Wa`dÄan `Alayhi ĤaqqÄan FÄ« At-TawrÄati Wa Al-‘InjÄ«li Wa Al-Qur’Äni Wa Man ‘Awfá Bi`ahdihi Mina AllÄhi FÄstabshirÅ« Bibay`ikumu Al-LadhÄ« BÄya`tum Bihi Wa Dhalika Huwa Al-Fawzu Al-`Ažīmu
Sesungguhnya Allah telah membeli dari orang-orang mu’min, diri dan harta mereka dengan memberikan surga untuk mereka. Mereka berperang pada jalan Allah, lalu mereka membunuh atau terbunuh. (Itu telah menjadi) janji yang benar dari Allah di dalam Taurat, Injil dan Al-Qur’an. Dan siapakah yang lebih menepati janjinya (selain) daripada Allah? Maka bergembiralah dengan jual beli yang telah kamu lakukan itu, dan itulah kemenangan yang besar.
Ade Wanto said:
Is it really something wrong here? It seem there is a stupid guy stand for himself. Gotcha.
Indeed I am a moslem (WHATSOEVER you tag me as a Sunni or else). However, I really never meet a stupid guy like yourself in my entire world. If I do meet so I shall say a same thing that you are someone intend to be a dancing queen wanna dance in the dark and judge everybody with a totally dumbblindfoolhead.
In my eyes, a guy like you are really a danger person even for moslem believer. It’s simply coz your stupidity. So I must say:
No Peace!
I think it is time for a little introspection here?
How can you possibly be a Muslim when you are not even familiar with Al Quran , and when its verses are clearly shown to you, in Arabic and Bahasa Indonesia, you still deny the existence of the word Injeel, talk about, and I quote from you here a ‘dancing queen wanna dance in the dark and judge everybody with a totally dumbblindfoolhead’
If you are still unable to find the word Injeel in the verses even with the help of your teachers, It suggests that you and your teachers are non beleivers:
As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur). 2:6-7You my friend are the danger to Islam!
I pray that Allah will guide you away from disbelief and back to His Book, obviously not the version that you are reading though as it seems to be somewhat corrupted.
Peace
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Cukurungan says:
Janma said :
If God created the world to be perfect, then it is perfect, although to our minds it may be full of contradictions and suffering and injustices, it is still the perfect creation of God.
me :
Did you know that once upon times in Islam History there was a big conflict between the muslim who believe Quran is a God creature against other muslim who believe that Quran is a God Words. It seemed so simple conflict but actually it was fighting for a big stakes because if Quran was the God creature, it should be no problems for us to revise it but the winner of those conflict was the latter crowd and therefore we won’t revise any words Quran for whatever the reason.
The explanation for condition in hell and heaven in Quran are only assumption based on the limit of the human knowledge on happiness and torment but the real condition in there is beyond human imagination. Therefore, God explain in Quran like a pristine rivers and a beautiful companions and something like that because that is most of the dessert men want to enjoy.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Janma, for all the contradictions you listed about Allah’s sayings, I am afraid your heart is sealed. You will be swallowing thorns and pusses in hell.
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Janma says:
oh, so it’s both then!? well at least the pus will make the thorns go down easier.
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Janma,
The verses are metaphorical, they are being used to place a mental picture into the minds of Arabs of the time of The Prophet, of the horrors of hell. As such they are not mutually exclusive. The different examples build a stronger picture.
My belief is that the whole concept of heaven and hell are metaphorical, why would our spirit or soul need to live in a physical world, good or bad?
Janma you said:
If God created the world to be perfect, then it is perfect, although to our minds it may be full of contradictions and suffering and injustices, it is still the perfect creation of God. What we see as a contradiction may not mean that it’s not perfect right? That’s just our puny take on something we can barely understand.
The problem I see with this argument, is that God gave higher beings free will, this is evidence by the fact that there is so much crime against humanity and we are slowly destroying this planet due to our own greed and avarice. I cannot believe that greed and avarice are God given attributes nor part of his perfection.
Peace
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Well if God gave us free will…. and we have our nature also from God then it’s all part of God’s plan and God must have a different take on it than we do, if there is a God etc.
Also I agree with you on the hell thing. I don’t believe in hell, I don’t believe you take a physical body with you, so not possible to burn or eat pus etc.
If it’s metaphorical then fine…. means they use scare tactics to make people follow their ideas (Gods or the messengers, I can’t say) That’s what turns me off the whole thing. I’m not some kindy kid or some ignorant desert dweller…. so I can’t buy into the whole thing, neither do I see the beauty in it. -
Sputjam says:
In my personal opinion, all those who believe in religion will end up in hell.
Those who believe in God alone, and do good and righteous deeds may succed in getting to heaven.
Those who refuse to admit there is a God, will follow those with religion.These are the rules set by the Creator.
Anyone with any other ideas?
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You make God sound like a megalomaniac…. believe in ME or go to hell……
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Janma,
You said:
If it’s metaphorical then fine”¦. means they use scare tactics to make people follow their ideas (Gods or the messengers, I can’t say) That’s what turns me off the whole thing.
So can we extend that way of thinking to include disregarding the Law of the Land, by saying they use scare tactics by threatening to incarcerate people of take some of their wealth in the way of fines if they commit crimes?
Have you never said to your children, “If you do well at school, I will buy you a bike.”? or “if you don’t eat you dinner you can’t have any dessert”? or even “if you don’t stop that you will get a smack”.
All of them scare tactics, albeit in milder forms, but we are not talking about disciplining children or individual people, we are talking about Gods attempts in trying to change a whole race of people. We are talking about trying to save peoples souls.
You said earlier in this thread that you were not anti-religion, but all religions use this tactic don’t they?, Even the Buddhist and Hindu religions with Karma, if you do good deeds you will reach a higher state of enlightenment, if you do bad you will regress?
Peace
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Qul YÄ ‘Ahla Al-KitÄbi Lastum `Alá Shay’in Ĥattá TuqÄ«mÅ« At-TawrÄata Wa Al-‘InjÄ«la Wa MÄ ‘Unzila ‘Ilaykum Min Rabbikum Wa LayazÄ«danna KathÄ«rÄan Minhum MÄ ‘Unzila ‘Ilayka Min Rabbika Å¢ughyÄnÄan Wa KufrÄan FalÄ Ta’sa `Alá Al-Qawmi Al-KÄfirÄ«na
Katakanlah: “Hai Ahli Kitab, kamu tidak dipandang beragama sedikitpun hingga kamu menegakkan ajaran-ajaran Taurat, Injil dan Al-Qur’an yang diturunkan kepadamu dari Rabbmu”. Sesungguhnya apa yang diturunkan kepadamu (Muhammad) dari Rabbmu akan menambah kedurhakaan dan kekafiran kepada kebanyakan dari mereka; maka janganlah kamu bersedih hati terhadap orang-orang yang kafir itu.
5:110In now days, are there still any Jews, Christian and Sabean who“menegakkan ajaran-ajaran Taurat, Injil dan Al-Qur’an yang diturunkan kepadamu dari Rabbmu”?
..and it was followed by “Sesungguhnya apa yang diturunkan kepadamu (Muhammad) dari Rabbmu akan menambah kedurhakaan dan kekafiran kepada kebanyakan dari mereka”
..so it is quite clear that God him self said most of them are infidelsAl-LadhÄ«na Yattabi`Å«na Ar-RasÅ«la An-NabÄ«ya Al-‘UmmÄ«ya Al-LadhÄ« YajidÅ«nahu MaktÅ«bÄan `Indahum FÄ« At-TawrÄati Wa Al-‘InjÄ«li Ya’muruhum Bil-Ma`rÅ«fi Wa YanhÄhum `Ani Al-Munkari Wa YuÄ¥illu Lahumu AÅ£-Å¢ayyibÄti Wa YuÄ¥arrimu `Alayhimu Al-KhabÄ’itha Wa YaÄ‘a`u `Anhum ‘IÅŸrahum Wa Al-‘AghlÄla AllatÄ« KÄnat `Alayhim Fa-Al-LadhÄ«na ‘Ä€manÅ« Bihi Wa `AzzarÅ«hu Wa NaÅŸarÅ«hu Wa Attaba`Å« An-NÅ«ra Al-LadhÄ« ‘Unzila Ma`ahu ‘ŪlÄ’ika Humu Al-Mufliĥūna
Yaitu) orang-orang yang mengikut Rasul, Nabi yang ummi yang (namanya) mereka dapati tertulis di dalam Taurat dan Injil yang ada di sisi mereka, yang menyuruh mereka mengerjakan yang ma’ruf dan melarang mereka dari mengerjakan yang mungkar dan menghalalkan bagi mereka segala yang baik dan mengharamkan bagi mereka segala yang buruk dan membuang dari mereka beban-beban dan belenggu-belenggu yang ada pada mereka. Maka orang-orang yang beriman kepadanya, memuliakannya, menolongnya dan mengikuti cahaya yang terang yang diturunkan kepadanya (Al-Qur’an), mereka itulah orang-orang yang beruntung.
9:111So it mean according God in the Quran, the name of Muhammad SAW was written in the original version of Torah and Bible…if so… how can Jew, Christian and Sabean still can be considered as a Muslim when they clearly reject the God message given to Muhammad SAW and even they rejected and revised the God word in Torah and Bible.
Therefore, my understanding after God send down Quran to the earth, the only way go to “heaven of the Islamic Version” is to follow al-Quran without exception.
Of course others belief also will have their own heaven and even they do not need to worry about hell torment because no hell for them everything will be saved by Lord of The Ring.
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Cuk,
First problem is that you have cut and pasted the incorrect verse numbers with your quotes, did you not even check that simple fact first?
Cuk asked in reference to the first verse:
In now days, are there still any Jews, Christian and Sabean who”menegakkan ajaran-ajaran Taurat, Injil dan Al-Qur’an yang diturunkan kepadamu dari Rabbmu”?
The excerpt you quoted in Bahasa Indonesia “menegakkan ajaran-ajaran Taurat, Injil dan Al-Qur’an yang diturunkan kepadamu dari Rabbmu” translates into English as “stand fast by The Law of Torah, Gospel and Al Quran, and all the revelation which has come to you from your Lord”
Just for a moment go back to the Transliterated Arabic it says:
“Qul YÄ ‘Ahla Al-KitÄbi Lastum `Alá Shay’in Ĥattá TuqÄ«mÅ« At-TawrÄata Wa Al-‘InjÄ«la Wa MÄ ‘Unzila ‘Ilaykum Min Rabbikum Wa LayazÄ«danna KathÄ«rÄan Minhum MÄ ‘Unzila ‘Ilayka Min Rabbika Å¢ughyÄnÄan Wa KufrÄan FalÄ Ta’sa `Alá Al-Qawmi Al-KÄfirÄ«na “The correct English translation is “stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.” Absolutely no mention in the verse of Al Quran? How could there be as this verse is directed at the ‘People of the Book’ and Allah is telling The Prophet to tell them that to uphold what has been revealed to them.
You are quite right in your second statement, God is saying that most of them are disbeleivers. But don’t forget the reason why, they are straying from the Word of Allah, just as you apparently are doing by using a translation which has words that do not exist in the original Arabic.
As to the second verse, Cuk stated:
So it mean according God in the Quran, the name of Muhammad SAW was written in the original version of Torah and Bible”¦
The Indonesian you quoted “Nabi yang ummi yang (namanya) mereka dapati tertulis di dalam Taurat dan Injil yang ada di sisi mereka” translates into “Unlettered Prophet (who’s Name) they find written in Torah and Gospel which they have with them”
Again going back to the transliterated Arabic:
An-NabÄ«ya Al-‘UmmÄ«ya Al-LadhÄ« YajidÅ«nahu MaktÅ«bÄan `Indahum FÄ« At-TawrÄati Wa Al-‘InjÄ«liWhich correctly translated into English reads “the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in Torah and the Gospel” Once again, something added into the translation, it simply doesn’t say that he was named, simply mentioned or described.
Cuk asked:
if so”¦ how can Jew, Christian and Sabean still can be considered as a Muslim when they clearly reject the God message given to Muhammad SAW and even they rejected and revised the God word in Torah and Bible.
I would ask, how can you consider yourself a Muslim, when you yourself are reading a book which has additions that are not in Al Quran?
Cuk stated:
Therefore, my understanding after God send down Quran to the earth, the only way go to “heaven of the Islamic Version” is to follow al-Quran without exception.
Good Job Allah repudiates this claim by saying:
Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians and Sabians, whoever believes in “Allah” and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.Cuk also said:
Of course others belief also will have their own heaven and even they do not need to worry about hell torment because no hell for them everything will be saved by Lord of The Ring.
Again Allah refutes this claim by Cuk by clearly saying that all religions are one:
The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah – the which We have sent by inspiration to thee – and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). 42:13Peace
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Cuk said :-
Therefore, my understanding after God send down Quran to the earth, the only way go to “heaven of the Islamic Version” is to follow al-Quran without exception
Good conclusion Cuk. since there is no prayer ritual mentioned in the koran, i suggest you abandon it.
khafi posted the following :-
Good Job Allah repudiates this claim by saying:
Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians and Sabians, whoever believes in “Allah” and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.This above confirmed my earlier statement that you do not need a religion to beleive in God. merely do good deeds of righteousness.
No need for worship. No need for imams. Even prophets are messengers, not imams..
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How can you possibly be a Muslim when you are not even familiar with Al Quran , and when its verses are clearly shown to you, in Arabic and Bahasa Indonesia, you still deny the existence of the word Injeel
وَلْيَØْكÙمْ أَهْل٠الإÙنجÙيل٠بÙمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّه٠ÙÙيه Ù٠وَمَنْ لَمْ ÙŠÙŽØْكÙمْ بÙمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّه٠ÙÙŽØ£ÙوْلَائÙÙƒÙŽ Ù‡Ùم٠الْÙَاسÙÙ‚Ùونَ
Wa LÄ«aÄ¥kum ‘Ahlu Al-‘InjÄ«li BimÄ ‘Anzala AllÄhu FÄ«hi Wa Man Lam YaÄ¥kum BimÄ ‘Anzala AllÄhu Fa’Å«lÄ’ika Humu Al-FÄsiqÅ«na
There is not ahluinjili in Quran! I wish you can read that.
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Khafi said:
Cuk,
First problem is that you have cut and pasted the incorrect verse numbers with your quotes, did you not even check that simple fact first?me:
My apology you’re correct that the number verses is wrong but I was using the cut and wrap methods as yours tactics in interpreting the quran verses to suit your agenda.You said:
The correct English translation is “stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.” Absolutely no mention in the verse of Al Quran?me:
It is sound like dancing with a wolf when you cornered with your own quote you diverted toward the corrupted verses translation, for me it is quite clear that God was telling to the prophet that whoever reject the revelation given to him is an infidels ….if Torah and Injil were enough for mankind why God still send another books and another prophet for mankind”¦simple logic would tell the reason God send another book because the previous book have been corrupted and altered by men.you said:
I would ask, how can you consider yourself a Muslim, when you yourself are reading a book which has additions that are not in Al Quran?me:
Tell me why you call yourself as muslim while you deliberately divert the real meaning of Quran in orders to be honored by infidels as a wise man and a master of peace and tolerance….What make me wonder just to get 1 + karma you were ready to sell God Words at very cheap price.
You said:
Good Job Allah repudiates this claim by saying:
Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians and Sabians, whoever believes in “Allah” and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.me:
No God didn’t repudiate anything, those statement is God confirmation toward fate of Jews and Christians and Sabians before God send down Quran but after their book have been corrupted and God send down another book (Quran) to purify their corrupted book the only way for mankind go to the heaven of Islamic version is to heed Quran without exception. Because, the value and standard of the righteous and good deeds written in original Torah and Bible are not the same as the corrupted version. Therefore after God send down the quran every Jews and Christians and Sabians will no longer be considered as muslim by Islam God unless they believe and heed the Quran.
You said:
Again Allah refutes this claim by Cuk by clearly saying that all religions are one:
The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah – the which We have sent by inspiration to thee – and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). 42:13Me:
The Islam is only one from Prophet Adam to Muhammad SAW but the religion is not one and there are many other religions in this earth with their own God but whether their God is the real Powerful God who create the universe I do not know and I do not care because it is not my business to confirm their God. For muslim we believe that Allah is creator of Universe and we read sahadat every time we pray to Allah as our promise submission that we shall fully follow “Perintah and Larangan Allah” without exception.
In other Quran verses Allah also said that He do not let to happen if only one religion exist in this earth. Therefore Our Position is very clear that there is no compulsion in Islam…..as mentioned by brother Adewanto….we have to share the same earth with other beliefs and other people ….and we can live together in diversity and harmony …. but don’t make mistake …..if they insult us we will insult them”¦if they hurt us I will hurt them “¦if they kill our brother I will kill them”¦Is that Clear Sir.
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Cuk,
You said:
It is sound like dancing with a wolf when you cornered with your own quote you diverted toward the corrupted verses translation, for me it is quite clear that God was telling to the prophet that whoever reject the revelation given to him is an infidels “¦.if Torah and Injil were enough for mankind why God still send another books and another prophet for mankind”¦simple logic would tell the reason God send another book because the previous book have been corrupted and altered by men.
Firstly it is not my translation into indonesian, the translation is widely available on the internet and in print, and simply proves the point that people like yourself do not check its authenticity when using it, I used it to illustrate the point that the word Injeel is used in the verse, this fact I checked with the arabic original and with other indonesian and english translations.
If, and I quote “God was telling to the prophet that whoever reject the revelation given to him is an infidels “¦.” Why would God give us the following verse:
Walyahkum ahlu al-injeeli bima anzala Allahu feehi waman lam yahkum bima anzala Allahu faola-ika humu alfasiqoona 5:47
And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors. 5:47It quite clearly states that “the followers of Injeel should judge by what Allah revealed in it”
This doesn’t necessarily mean the scriptures as they stand today, but Allah also makes this clear by stating that they should follow what Allah revealed in it
Al Quran is not a replacement for the previous scriptures it is a confirmation of what Allah revealed in them:
Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah’s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,- 2:97
Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper. 2:3-5Even Nabi Isa, before hand was told to tell the Jews that what he brought was only a confirmation of what they already had:
And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.” But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, “this is evident sorcery!” 61:6
Cuk asked:
Tell me why you call yourself as muslim while you deliberately divert the real meaning of Quran in orders to be honored by infidels as a wise man and a master of peace and tolerance”¦.What make me wonder just to get 1 + karma you were ready to sell God Words at very cheap price.
I don’t divert the real meaning, I never add words to the translations or try to twist their meanings, I attempt to explain the clear verses to those who have misread them or been mislead. I am not doing it for disbelievers, or for karma, I am doing it for those who do believe in God but who are astray from his clear teachings.
Cuk said:
No God didn’t repudiate anything, those statement is God confirmation toward fate of Jews and Christians and Sabians before God send down Quran but after their book have been corrupted and God send down another book (Quran) to purify their corrupted book the only way for mankind go to the heaven of Islamic version is to heed Quran without exception. Because, the value and standard of the righteous and good deeds written in original Torah and Bible are not the same as the corrupted version. Therefore after God send down the quran every Jews and Christians and Sabians will no longer be considered as muslim by Islam God unless they believe and heed the Quran.
Read the verses again:
Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. 2:62Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good— they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve. 5:69
Do you see the use of the word AND, it is clear from these verses that anybody who believes in God, and the Day of Judgement and does good deeds is included in going to heaven. The only qualifier is ‘belief in God, and the Day of Judgement and doing good deeds” it doesn’t say only those who believe in The message of Prophet Mohammed.
Cuk said:
The Islam is only one from Prophet Adam to Muhammad SAW but the religion is not one and there are many other religions in this earth with their own God but whether their God is the real Powerful God who create the universe I do not know and I do not care because it is not my business to confirm their God. For muslim we believe that Allah is creator of Universe and we read sahadat every time we pray to Allah as our promise submission that we shall fully follow “Perintah and Larangan Allah” without exception.
There are are some contradictions in this statement, you say that Islam is the only one from Nabi Adam to Nabi Mohammed, but then you go on to say that there are other religions and gods? The whole point of Islam is that there are no other religions Cuk, there are no other religions and no other gods, they are all Islam, and there is only one God. There may be followers who have been misguided and have deviated from the true path, but they all started with messengers from Allah.
Cuk said:
but don’t make mistake “¦..if they insult us we will insult them”¦if they hurt us I will hurt them “¦if they kill our brother I will kill them”¦Is that Clear Sir.
What is clear to me Cuk, is that you have been misguided, one of the moral traits recommended in the Qur’an is forgiveness:
“Hold to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the ignorant.” 7: 199
In another verse Allah commands: “”¦ They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” 24:22
Those who do not abide by the moral values of the Qur’an find it very difficult to forgive others. Because, they are easily angered by any error committed. However, Allah has advised the faithful that forgiveness is more proper:
“The repayment of a bad action is one equivalent to it. But if someone pardons and puts things right, his reward is with Allah”¦” 42:40
“”¦. But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” 64: 14
It has also been revealed in the Qur’an that forgiveness is a superior moral trait:
“But if someone is steadfast and forgives, that is the most resolute course to follow.” 42:43
For that reason, believers are forgiving, compassionate and tolerant people who, as revealed in the Qur’an, “control their rage and pardon other people.” 3:134
Peace
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dewaratugedeanom says:
@Stefan.
Kudos for putting this Ade Wanto in his place with your post about adultery in the Bible. But bear in mind that probably his words didn’t come from reading the Bible himself but from being brainwashed by his ulamas, imams and their ilk who are not ashamed to slander and spread lies in order to discredit other religions and conceal their own flaws and weakness. -
cuk said :-
The Islam is only one from Prophet Adam to Muhammad SAW but the religion is not one and there are many other religions in this earth with their own God but whether their God is the real Powerful God who create the universe I do not know and I do not care because it is not my business to confirm their God.
I say “Blasphemy”.
khafi said :-
The whole point of Islam is that there are no other religions Cuk, there are no other religions and no other gods, they are all Islam, and there is only one God.
I say :-
There is only one God. There is no need for religion. Submitting to the one God is islam. Submitting to religion is idol worship.
God if free of all wants. He has no need for our worship ritual or offering. -
Sputjam said:
There is only one God. There is no need for religion. Submitting to the one God is islam. Submitting to religion is idol worship.
God if free of all wants. He has no need for our worship ritual or offering.I am in full agreement with you, but I find religion to be the most easily understood translation for the word Deen, but I understand your point. However It is not quite easy to come up with a satisfactory translation for deen, which encompasses its full meaning.
Peace
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Khafi said –
I am in full agreement with you, but I find religion to be the most easily understood translation for the word Deen, but I understand your point. However It is not quite easy to come up with a satisfactory translation for deen, which encompasses its full meaning.
Then read this –
“The only religion approved by GOD is “Submission.” Ironically, those who have received the scripture are the ones who dispute this fact, despite the knowledge they have received, due to jealousy. For such rejecters of GOD’s revelations, GOD is most strict in reckoning.” (Quran 3:19)
and this
“Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission/Islam as the SYSTEM for you”¦” (Quran 5:3)
and full explannation available at
http://www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/religion.htm
Older ulamaks translate deen as religion, then more modern ulamaks translate deen as way of life. But many translators are in agreement that deen actually meant system. The whole meaning in some text then becomes relevant.
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dewaratugedeanom Says:
@Stefan.
Kudos for putting this Ade Wanto in his place with your post about adultery in the Bible. But bear in mind that probably his words didn’t come from reading the Bible himself but from being brainwashed by his ulamas, imams and their ilk who are not ashamed to slander and spread lies in order to discredit other religions and conceal their own flaws and weakness.Stefan Says:
I don’t see there anything about adulterers. But you can read John 8:1-11. This is about adultery:
1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered round him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say? 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her. 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, Woman, where are they? Has no-one condemned you? 11 No-one, sir, she said. Then neither do I condemn you, Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin.The question is not where is the right verse about adultery in Bible. But, what Bible say about adultery itself. If Bible does not give punishment to someone has committed adultery (which I wrong about it), no wonder in all Christians community, obviously free sex is a way of life that’s sex like regularly eat and drink. That’s really different to Islam way of life. As Moslem we see a sexual relation is a sacred thing. We, Moslems really believe, are not animals. In our sight, adultery is a sin therefore Islam gives severe punishment.
But, as I always say, that’s your religion. I don’t have to heed yours. And, I don’t wanna judge if you do like animal in matter of sex relation (even you always do as swinger relationship), that is yours. If you think it because I has brainwashwed by other, it’s yours. I don’t have to be ashame to everyone else about their opinion about myself. I really don’t give a f*cking sh*t attention to other believe. I remind you even you wanna f*ck all your three sisters, I really don’t wanna join that orgy. Believe me, if you are Christians, you won’t be punish to commit adultery and free sex coz your gods are love you very much and I believe there is no single person in this world has no sin thus you can be punish. Believe me, you just make a confession to your priests, and he spell a magic word abrakadabra, all your sins wipe out.
That’s really modern and mature religion, as Teng Says:
No, we christians sometimes do not heed to our own book. That’s because we are bright enough to put things in perspective and sometimes say: Times change”¦. what is written a thousand year ago might not really apply now in the 21st century.
When a religion matures, it tends to focus on the love-part of the religion. Christianity had its crusades, witch and kafir burnings etc etc. Now its more about forgiving and understanding.It is very nice, isn’t it. In the Bible, there is really no punishment for adulterers. So you can f*ck everyone everytime everywhere (just like an ads slogan from a worldwide cola). Coz, as you say, When a religion matures, it tends to focus on the love-part of the religion. Yes, let you make love to each other however please don’t ask us to join that orgy.
PS: Please don’t tag your sex festive video to the internet, btw. Whoops.
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Assalamu alaikum Mas Ade,
Most of the posters here are either crusaders or unbelievers or CIA-funded provocateurs. Sometime we have to show them our true colour what prophet Mohammad pbuh had taught us. Here it is all you dirty IM kaffirs for questioning Islam.
We demand peace or else ..Please keep the peace. Salam.
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AAB,
Once again you display your lack of knowledge, the uncivilised behaviour on the link you gave is the result of Sharia, inspired by corrupted Hadith and Sunnah, none of which are Islamic. I think you are just as far from Gods path as the supporters of this type of behaviour.
Peace
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Teng says:
@ Ade Wanto.. its “funny” how you think adultery and free sex are the same as “incest, bestiality etc”.
FYI, those ARE illegal in Christian countries. It’s really an example of your total black-white extreme thinking. Your train of thoughts seem to go like this: If you don’t punish adulterers…THEN you agree with incest and bestiality.
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Teng Said:
@ Ade Wanto.. its “funny” how you think adultery and free sex are the same as “incest, bestiality etc”.
FYI, those ARE illegal in Christian countries. It’s really an example of your total black-white extreme thinking. Your train of thoughts seem to go like this: If you don’t punish adulterers”¦THEN you agree with incest and bestiality.me :
Goods defense Sir, anyway don’t worry be happy you can f***k anyone you like we don’t care…fyi cattle,cat and dog also f*ck anyone they want and it is also ok for me.
AAB said:
Most of the posters here are either crusaders or unbelievers or CIA-funded provocateurs.
me :
No…most of them just a typical english teacher who very famous with their reputation of “Shagger Underage Girls”
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Dragonwall says:
Social life much differs to a person’s religion. Hmmm …too much free sex will end a person up as an adulterer. Incest is done at home…
We, Moslems really believe, are not animals. In our sight, adultery is a sin therefore Islam gives severe punishment.
The last time I read from the Aceh there was someone that was caught having sex with a woman after her husband left the house to work! If not mistaken he got away with a light sentence, so how severe could that be?
he spell a magic word abrakadabra, all your sins wipe out.
Same same la…after puasa.. wasn’t that a fact!
Or else what. Unbelievable grossing and whinning. Weren’t you also an IM kaffirs questioning the Christians?
Each one have their right to debate and rebuttal and see who shall emerge as a better commentator. Yet another infantile provocation.
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Mas Khafi, you are a lost soul. No true believer rejects Hadith and Sunnah.
Cuk:
“¦fyi cattle,cat and dog also f*ck anyone they want and it is also ok for me.
I don’t know about f**king cat and dog, but we moslems better the stake by f**king the cattle and selling off the meat to non-believers.
A man can have sex with animals such as sheep¹s, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.
From Khomeini’s book,
“Tahrirolvasyleh”, fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990No”¦most of them just a typical english teacher who very famous with their reputation of “Shagger Underage Girls“
… and little boys
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Khafi: I admire your knowledge on Islam and I am on the same boat as you are regarding hadith. But why are you wasting time explaining things and letting people make fun of you? Don’t you think the teaching from God is wasted here? Yet in the Quran it is told to not sell short the Quran? And it is also told that God choose whomever he wants to be His follower?
Don’t take this personally, Khafi, take this as just a friendly reminder from someone on the same boat.
ps: how can I get your email, I’m sure it is not appropriate to post it here but I do want to have some discussions with you in person. Maybe you can visit my blog and give a comment (I have a posting on Idul Qurban which your insight could be useful), then I know how to contact you 🙂
Comment on “Bahai”.
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khafi,
I was thinking about what you said….
I don’t know if our idea of what is ‘perfect’ is the same as God’s idea of what is perfect.
If God created the world to be perfect, then it is perfect, although to our minds it may be full of contradictions and suffering and injustices, it is still the perfect creation of God. What we see as a contradiction may not mean that it’s not perfect right? That’s just our puny take on something we can barely understand.
I understand your need to believe in this perfectness, but it’s a human perfect. God’s perfect maybe something else altogether.
Plus, explain how there is the contradiction…. just the most simple one, like what sinners eat in hell. is it pus or thorns? Why the contradiction there?