Bahai
Nov 1st, 2007, in News, by PatungMuslims converting to Bahai.
Thirty-one Muslims in the Donggala area of Central Sulawesi have become apostates and converted to the Bahá’à religion, it is said, inviting the anger of their neighbours who are sticking firm to Islam, and the displeasure of the local bureaucracy.
The head of the Religious Affairs Office in Palolo sub-district said that the Bahai faith, led by one Mulahi, a former marriage counsellor, entered Banpers village in the 1990s, and Mulahi had persuaded 31 local people to convert.
But some Muslims in the village are not taking it lying down:
The homes of the Bahai followers in Banpers are often pelted with stones.
Nor is the local government, which held a meeting between concerned Muslims and the Bahaists in September, 2007, wherein the Bahai adherents were warned to have a think about which religion they wanted to belong to, either Islam, like before, or another religion which was recognised by the government, because Bahai is not. Another meeting will be held soon, to find out whether the Bahaists have had enough thinking time. antara
The Department of Religion (Depag) has also sent down an investigative team, says Muhammad Ramli in Palu, and they will have to decide whether Bahai is a sect within Islam. If so, then the converts, or their leaders, can likely be prosecuted for blasphemy. Depag also wants to find out how Bahai has been spread in the area, because if it is being preached at people who already hold a religion, then that may also constitute a crime, he said. antara
November 8th. Two out of the seven households that converted to Bahai are said to have returned to Islam, after the two heads of the households, Mulahi (70) and Muslimin (40), met with local leaders. Four others refused to change back to Islam, while the seventh did not turn up. antara
395 Comments on “Bahai”
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Assalamualaikum Mas Khafi,
Bahai is under the umbrella of Islam, so is NoI and Ahmadiyah. If you are a believer, Allah saw had sent a total of 124,000 prophets; and purportedly the last one was Nabi Mohammad to correct the wrong perception of his second last prophet Isa.
When Allah saw send down Prophet Isa pbuh, He had not predicted that his creatures would worship the traitor Judas skewered on the cross. That was the reason why He had to deploy Prophet Mo pbuh to correct the Christians. See the Christians were stubborn and continued to worship Judas to this day. Prophet Mo pbuh had not done his job properly, so Allah saw had to sent Prophet Bahaullah pbuh. Darn Bahaullah didn’t far any better, so I think Allah saw sent in ‘Prophet’ Gus Dur pbuh. Whether our beloved Gus Dur is a nabi or not, I am not sure, but his emergence in Indonesian political scene was predicted by our own flesh and blood Rajah of Kediri – Prophet Joyoboyo pbuh.
Salam.
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Mohammed Khafi says:
Aluang Anak Bayang,
|-O
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Pakmantri says:
Aluang Anak Bayang,
……………..????? LOL RONTFLMAO 😀
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Tuan says:
Asslamu Alaikum Mohammed Khafi,
You just don’t get it do you, Al Quran does not need any help from manmade sources.
Brother, we are both not here to change each other’s minds or impose our view of Islam on each other. But mainly to understand each others’ point of view. From our discussions I have learned quite a lot from those who are more or less “Quran only” individuals. Which is fine by me and it matters not to me what your stance is with the hadith is in your personal life. Its a free world brother. I am educated young man from the West who is a practicing Muslim like you. I attended one of the top universities in America and finished top of my class and currently working on a masters degree. I am far from some uneducated robot. I can hold my own in my discussions and so far I have been holding my own stance in our discussion about the role of hadiths. I am free to question the opinions of both the liberal movements of islam (Quran-only, liberal Muslims, whatever) and the conservative movements of islam (Wahabis). So as long as I can critically view both sides and devise my own opinion for myself, I am confident in what I believe in and any mistakes that I have made I ask forgiveness from Allah.
Did Allah make Al Quran so difficult to understand that we need 40 volumes of Hadith to explain it? No:
And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54:17
And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54:22
And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54:32
And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54:40I do not know about you brother but my translation of the Quran from Pickthall is slightly different with a commentary (tafseer)*. No where did i find the word “understand”.
And in truth We have made the Quran easy to remember; but is there any remeberanceth of it. 54:17 (22, 32,40)*
*It is a fact that the Koran is marvelously easy for believers to commit to memory. Thousands of people in the East know the whole Book by heart. The translator, who finds great difficulty in remembering well-known English quotations accurately, can remember page after page of Koran in Arabic with perfect accuracy. (Pickthall)
If Allah had wished for all details of our daily lives to be orchestrated as they are by Hadith He would have told us so in Al Quran, however He says:
If all the trees on earth were made into pens, and the ocean supplied the ink, augmented by seven more oceans, the words of GOD would not run out. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise. 31:27
I do not understand how this verse from “Luqman” has anything to do with Hadith or Quran. I fail to see the correlation.
RE:Hadiths on crossing legs.
I do not know why you brought this up. Granted they contradict each other but it makes no difference, as in we are not going to punished if do or do not cross our legs while laying down. I wouldn’t take it seriously.
Hadiths on drinking while standing up
abu huraiah is questionable source..the other hadith is in reference to Zam Zam water which Muslims consider more sacred than any other water source because it is miracle of God (ie. story of Hagar).
You have compiled a list of hadiths that are questionable and indeed they seem to be since they contradict the Quran. Obviously crossing the legs in not a big deal and you won’t go to hell if you don’t cross your legs a certain way and Abu Huriah is a questionable source.However have you tried compiling a list of hadiths that are not questionable and are in line with the teachings of the Quran? Like I said before, there are weak questionable hadiths and there ones that are corroborated by the Quran. I would encourage you to list hadiths that are supported by the Quran. One example that we mentioned is the last sermon. Some others:
“Riches are not from an abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.”
“No man is a true believer unless he desires for his brother that he desires for himself.”
“The proof of a Muslim’s sincerity is that he pays no attention to that which is not his business.”
“”¦yield obedience to my successor, although he may be an Abyssinian slave.”
“Admonish your wives with kindness.”
Try focusing on the ones that aren’t controversial and not let those “spoil the rest of the barrell”. You are free to pick and choose which ones you adhere in the Hadiths and which ones you don’t. A muslim schloar i spoke to here in the US said, it is ok to reject certain hadiths but to reject all of them is a serious matter. Sounds reasonable to me since there are some good hadiths, like the ones I mentioned above.
GOD wants us to uphold only His Hadiths, the Quran.
“Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which HADITH, besides this (Quran) do they believe in?” 7:185Brother, I do understand where you find your translations.
“Have they not considered the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and what things Allah hath created, and that it may be that their own term draweth night? In what fact after this will they believe” 7:185 (Pickthall translation)
No where does it refer to “Which HADITH…”. I am afraid these are TWO Quranic verses that you have mentioned that appear to be suspicious. .Thought I am beginning to wonder if any of the Hadiths you quoted are accurately quoted.
All in all the Quran is above the Hadiths and the Hadiths are more or less supplementary texts, some of which can be supported by the Quran (The others we can take it or leave it) and some of which we need in our daily lives such as prayer and wudu. Granted there are variations of them (even though they are similar), but nonetheless God is Forgiving and for the most part we are practicing what has been taught. In America we have people who pray differently (Malaikis with their hands down, Hanafis and Shafis with their hands to their chest) and no one makes a big deal about it. We may have different interpretations of what is correct or not, but when it comes to prayer we stand side to side and should to shoulder for the Almighty.
~Tuan Indonesian-American Muslim
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Tuan said:
Brother, I do understand where you find your translations.
“Have they not considered the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and what things Allah hath created, and that it may be that their own term draweth night? In what fact after this will they believe” 7:185 (Pickthall translation)
No where does it refer to “Which HADITH”¦”. I am afraid these are TWO Quranic verses that you have mentioned that appear to be suspicious. .Thought I am beginning to wonder if any of the Hadiths you quoted are accurately quoted.
The verse in transliterated Arabic reads:
“Awalam yanthuroo fee malakooti alssamawati waal-ardi wama khalaqa Allahu min shay-in waan AAasa an yakoona qadi iqtaraba ajaluhum fabi-ayyi hadeethin baAAdahu yu/minoona “
Do you see the word Hadith now?
You have to go back to the source, to the Arabic of Al Quran, and you have to use Classical Arabic and not Modern Arabic, be very careful with Modern Arabic as the translations of some words have taken on a different meaning based on the authors understanding of the meaning from Hadith! One example is Aurat, which in Classical Arabic means outer genitals but which in Modern Arabic has a much more encompassing meaning, much to the detriment of our Muslimah.
You said:
I do not know about you brother but my translation of the Quran from Pickthall is slightly different with a commentary (tafseer)*. No where did i find the word “understand”.
And in truth We have made the Quran easy to remember; but is there any remeberanceth of it. 54:17
Yusuf Ali, Sarwar, Khalifa, Hilali/Khan, Malik, QXP, Free Minds, all translate the meaning more correctly to include understand.
The transliteration is:
Walaqad yassarna alqur-ana lilththikri fahal min muddakirin”
The noun dhikr primarily denotes “remembrance”, or the “presence of something in the mind”, this term comprises the twin notions of understanding and remembering, it is something which needs to be taken into the heart, not simply memorised.
You said:
Try focusing on the ones that aren’t controversial and not let those “spoil the rest of the barrell”. You are free to pick and choose which ones you adhere in the Hadiths and which ones you don’t.
Allah has warned against doing exactly this:
What is the matter with you? How judge ye?Or have ye a book through which ye learn- That ye shall have, through it whatever ye choose? 68:36-38
The last sentence transliterated once again, reads:
Inna lakum feehi lama takhayyaroona
Which literally translated says “That for you in it (is) what (E) you prefer choose.”
In more modern English ” What is the matter with you? How do you make your decisions? Or do you have a book from which you can pick and choose what suits you best?”
The point that Allah is trying to make is, why after He has given us a perfect book, do we pick and choose from other sources, rather than using what He has already given us which has no contradictions in it.
Check your Wudhu! Do you do it as Allah tells us in Al Quran, or do you disregard His simple instructions, here is what He says:
“O ye who believe! When ye rise up for prayer, wash you faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and lightly rub your heads and (wash) your feet up to the ankles. And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it. Allah would not place a burden on you, but He would purify you and would perfect His grace upon you, that ye may give thanks.”5:6
If you deviate from these simple instructions you are taking a source of law other than Allah, there is no ritual associated with Wudhu. Would The Prophet have told lies or added to what he had been instructed from Allah? No of course not. Another Hadith ritual to be consigned to the pile of falsehood, lies and deceit.
Peace
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Cukurungan says:
Cuk,
I am certainly not acting like a prophet, I am bringing nothing new, I am just trying to point out to people that what they have been given and what they are following are two different things. I would never dream of forcing anybody to follow what I believe, as one of the principles I follow is that “there is no compulsion in religion”. I would not say that I have no proof though, my proof is in Al Quran.Definitely Yes, You have been acting like a new prophet, your style of posting by judging and blaming other understanding and creating new interpretation of Quran by your own group. If you want to point out your view why you do not just show your view and you do not need to declare other understanding is wrong because you have no prove either and more over you have been engineered Quran translation to suit your agenda, here example:
“”Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which HADITH, besides this (Quran) do they believe in?” 7:185
We are in the same page that Quran is “God Word” but your own translation make it become “Khafi Word” therefore your claim that you are only following “God Word” is in BIG question.
I do discuss these issues with my friends and neighbours, but I am lucky to live in a small kampung, where my views are tolerated by the mainstream. There is no hatred in our community which is the way it should be.
Of course nothing wrong with a discussion as long as you do not become a judge for them and it will become different story if you start to judge their belief. The worst part of your propaganda is you always claim that your elite group is the most tolerance one whereas the mainstream is less tolerance how can you compare a quality of few thousand people mostly well educated people against more than billion people with various level of education and understanding”¦but I can confidently say that 95% of those main stream muslim is just an ordinary muslim in which they more love peace than war and “mereka cuman manusia biasa yg ingin punya agama dan boleh berpesta di dunia tapi tetap bisa masuk surga”.
“In General” is the critical point in this statement, whilst you may be semi tolerant, there are others who would quite happily use violence against me and my family to silence me, what good would that serve? As I have said before I believe it is better to keep a low profile and discuss my beliefs and interpretation in the longer term. This “red line” you talk about, who gets to decide where it is positioned? I certainly don’t set any red line’s, you are free to believe what you wish as long as it doesn’t compell me or others to do the same, it is your choice. That is the difference between what you and I beleive. I have, and give to others, freedom of choice as given to us by Allah in Al Quran. There are those who would dictate what we should believe and how we have to practice our religious faith, that is clearly not following Allah’s teachings.
The red line for us is as long as you do not reject or deny “God Law”, or “perintah and larangan” that clearly stated in the Quran.
Example:
I believe that we both agree that sholat is one of God order clearly stated in Quran but this our personal decision whether we do sholat or not but if someone say there is no more obligation for sholat because of bla..bla..bla that is crossing the red line”¦you deliberately eat pork that is your right but if you say pork is halal because of bla..bla ..bla “¦and you try to spread this kind of understanding whilst you are claim your self as a muslim this kind heresy is definitely crossing the red line.
For us, if you are an infidel just say so we have no problem to live peacefully with anybody.How could I be described as you have stated, when I am only trying to return people of all the monotheistic faiths to the shared core of their beliefs. To suggest ways for us all to live togther in peace and harmony, tolerant of our differences, and striving for a better future?
I believe most people just they believe to what they want to believe and it is only wasting time to change a people belief because it would create disharmony and internal conflict in the family and community life …do not teach dog to meow and do not teach cat to bark just leave them as they are. We do not need “Pahlawan Kesiangan””¦without your great lecturer we have been hundred years live together in peace and harmony with anybody”¦any people and any religion”¦ yes there was riots, run amok and religion conflict but that is not only happened in here and all over the world experienced the same nature because this world’s is not place for a peace only but this is place for peace and war”¦if you afraid war just go to heaven.
I am not manipulating anything, the verses are clearly stated in Al Quran. Allah says he has made our religion simple for us, are there none who will follow?
The verses are clearly stated in the Quran but you made a manipulation on the way you translate and interpret it.
You are quite likely correct that 99% of them would say that their God is a different God, but that is likely because they are just as mislead by their religious establishment as the Mainstream Muslims are by theirs.
I could ask you to question your Mainstream friends about the chances of Jews, Sabeans, and Christians going to heaven, I think you would get the same percentage of responses in the negative. When I have asked this question of my fellow Muslim workers around the globe they all say the same thing, Heaven is for Muslims, Jews and Christians will go to hell.You have no right to become a judge for their religious establishement.
My understanding, what you did in questioning other belief is useless because 99% people will just believe what they want to believe why we should waste our time in those useless question answer session?”¦.I think it is much better if we recommend people to follow what they believe from their own credible source because if every religion follower follow what they teach properly from their proper and credible source likely the violence in the name of the religion would be minimized.
I do have reservations about your second question, what relevance does this have to if they are believers or not? Nabi Ibrahim, is clearly decribed in Al Quran as a Muslim, he was born and died centuries before Prohet Mohammed.
As to Prophet Mohammed being the Last Prophet, I assume that you are basing this on him being described as “The Seal of the Prophets” (khaatam an- nabeyen) in 33:40
A seal has the function of attesting the authenticity of something, this verse seems to me to be saying that Prophet Mohammed is attesting the authenticity of the previous prohets. The idolisers of the Prophet, have twisted the meaning to become “Last of the Prohets” when in fact it appears to mean no such thing.You do not need to have my reservation about my second question because we aware that even majority of this world population do not believe that Muhammad SAW is a prophet otherwise Islam would become the biggest religion in this earth…but who care.
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Ihaknt says:
Under my umbrella, ella, ella, eh, eh.
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Cuk,
I never force anybody to follow what I believe, but it is my obligation as a Muslin to guide others to the straight path.
I am not a member of any group, my beliefs are based purely on my own understanding and study of many, many interpretations, and translations of Al Quran, to me Gods words are very clear without needing any explanation from Hadith. Yes it may be propaganda, if the definition is used correctly “Information that is spead for the purpose of promoting some cause. “ My cause is the return of mankind to Allah’s teachings, not to the religion of the Yahudi, or the Christians or the Mohammedans, a return to the base teachings of God, that is True Islam!
You say that I have engineered translations to suit my own purposes citing 7:185 as an example, but I have already shown you what the original arabic cleary states:
“7:185 اولم ينظروا ÙÙŠ ملكوت السماوات والارض وماخلق الله من شئ وان عسى ان يكون قد اقترب اجلهم Ùباي Øديث بعده يؤمنون
Transliterated: Awalam yanthuroo fee malakooti alssamawati waal-ardi wama khalaqa Allahu min shay-in waan AAasa an yakoona qadi iqtaraba ajaluhum fabi-ayyi hadeethin baAAdahu yu/minoona
Literal meaning:Do they not look/wonder about in the skies’/space’s and the earth’s/Planet Earth’s might and power , and what God created from a thing, and that maybe/perhaps their term/time had neared/approached? So with which information/speech after it (do) they believe?
The information/speech clearly means Hadith, it says so in the original Arabic.
Judging the tolerance of a group of people based on the numbers of those people doesn’t make any sense to me, whilst you can assure me that 95% of your group are, and I quote:
just an ordinary muslim in which they more love peace than war and “mereka cuman manusia biasa yg ingin punya agama dan boleh berpesta di dunia tapi tetap bisa masuk surga”.
That does not in itself make them tolerant, Allah clearly states in Al Quran than Any who believe in him, does good deeds and believes in the Day of Judgement have nothing to fear from him, and he goes on to give Jews, Sabeans, Christians as examples of these peoples, If I was to ask your mainstream muslim friends and probably you included, will there be any Jews, Christians, or Sabeans in heaven? they would in all likely hood say no. What you do not realise is that Allah is telling us in this verse, that there are Jews, Christians, Sabeans and others who he accepts as Muslims, As I have tried to explain to you before Islam is not the preserve of Mainstream Muslims it is Allah’s Universal Guidance for all people. That is what I mean by tolerance.
I am not the one denying Gods Law, it is you and your fellow Mainstream Muslims, who are saying that Allah’s word is not enough on its own.
! have never said that there is no need to pray, I just don’t pray in the ritualistic fashion which you do, As to eating pork, Allah say it is ok if you are forced out of necessity to do it, so why do you deny it? The flesh of swine is clearly prohibited for everyday consumption, but there are circumstance when it is ok. You seem to be making these things up to try and discredit me, it isn’t going to work.
None of this is Heresy, it is using God given intelligence, plain common sense, and understanding, to read and comprehend what Allah has given us. It is denying Allah’s simple commands and instructions, and taking other than him for sources of Law which makes somebody an Infidel.
If I was to stop trying to guide to Allah’s Straight Path just because it caused conflict and disagreement, I would be doing my soul a great injustice, and not following the instructions of My Lord given in Al Quran.
I am not judging anybodys religious establishment, that is Allah work, I am simply commenting on it and trying to highlight that others and not just the Mainstream Muslims, have to by my understanding been mislead.
You said:
My understanding, what you did in questioning other belief is useless because 99% people will just believe what they want to believe why we should waste our time in those useless question answer session?”¦.I think it is much better if we recommend people to follow what they believe from their own credible source because if every religion follower follow what they teach properly from their proper and credible source likely the violence in the name of the religion would be minimized
Are we not told in Al Quran to guide others to the Right Path? Do you believe that if we leave Christian, Jewish, or Muslim extremists to follow what they believe is their own “credible source”, they will stop commiting vile acts in Gods name? Will the mainstream of any of the monotheistic religions following their own “credible sources” ever be in agreement and at peace? We have an obligation to Allah, to try and do something to bring peace, tolerance and understanding to this world, the only way it can happen is if we follow only one “credible source” and that can only be from God.
Peace
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Stefan says:
Tuan wrote:
Which is why we don’t neglect the Quran when studying hadiths. If a hadith contradicts a passage in the Quran, we disregard it. We read the hadiths carefully, we refer to the Quran, we ask the opinions of others and finally we make our own decision on it.
According to the Quran the punishment for adultery is 100 lashes. So why did stoning (which is only mentioned is some weak hadiths) made it into sharia law?
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Cuk,
I never force anybody to follow what I believe, but it is my obligation as a Muslin to guide others to the straight path.I am not a member of any group, my beliefs are based purely on my own understanding and study of many, many interpretations, and translations of Al Quran, to me Gods words are very clear without needing any explanation from Hadith. Yes it may be propaganda, if the definition is used correctly “Information that is spead for the purpose of promoting some cause. ” My cause is the return of mankind to Allah’s teachings, not to the religion of the Yahudi, or the Christians or the Mohammedans, a return to the base teachings of God, that is True Islam!.Sorry I have to say that I failed to see the difference between Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi and You because Zarqawi also said that His Cause is also the return of mankind to Allah Deen only not other Deen or other religion.
You say that I have engineered translations to suit my own purposes citing 7:185 as an example, but I have already shown you what the original arabic cleary states:
“7:185 اولم ينظروا ÙÙŠ ملكوت السماوات والارض وماخلق الله من شئ وان عسى ان يكون قد اقترب اجلهم Ùباي Øديث بعده يؤمنون
Transliterated: Awalam yanthuroo fee malakooti alssamawati waal-ardi wama khalaqa Allahu min shay-in waan AAasa an yakoona qadi iqtaraba ajaluhum fabi-ayyi hadeethin baAAdahu yu/minoona
Literal meaning:Do they not look/wonder about in the skies’/space’s and the earth’s/Planet Earth’s might and power , and what God created from a thing, and that maybe/perhaps their term/time had neared/approached? So with which information/speech after it (do) they believe?
The information/speech clearly means Hadith, it says so in the original Arabic.What is your prove that you are more expert in an Arabic than “Orang Arab”, that is most ridiculous Quran interpretation that I have ever seen even by using the plain common sense it is clearly that the information/speech could be from anywhere not only Hadith, “¦.I am an not expert Tafsir Quran”¦..but I can say that the meaning of those verses is God confirmed the absolute truth of the information in Quran and any information/speech in which do not conform with the Quran, it must be a wrong one. We know that the wrong information could be from anywhere and anytime include a fake hadith or even your twisting Quran interpretation likely also can be categorized as the wrong information
Judging the tolerance of a group of people based on the numbers of those people doesn’t make any sense to me, whilst you can assure me that 95% of your group are, and I quote:just an ordinary muslim in which they more love peace than war and “mereka cuman manusia biasa yg ingin punya agama dan boleh berpesta di dunia tapi tetap bisa masuk surga”.That does not in itself make them tolerant, Allah clearly states in Al Quran than Any who believe in him, does good deeds and believes in the Day of Judgement have nothing to fear from him, and he goes on to give Jews, Sabeans, Christians as examples of these peoples, If I was to ask your mainstream muslim friends and probably you included, will there be any Jews, Christians, or Sabeans in heaven? they would in all likely hood say no. What you do not realise is that Allah is telling us in this verse, that there are Jews, Christians, Sabeans and others who he accepts as Muslims, As I have tried to explain to you before Islam is not the preserve of Mainstream Muslims it is Allah’s Universal Guidance for all people. That is what I mean by tolerance.
You deceived by your own interpretation, do not you think that even Iblis and Syaithon also believe in God and the days of Judgment because Iblis already meet and made conversation directly with God but why they still be threatened by God with Hellfire. Your approach in interpreting Quran is a very dangerous because you pick out a verse then you twists it to the right and the left to suit your agenda while neglecting other Quran verses. My understanding the Quran should be consider as an integral book because there is other verse that explaining what does it mean Believe and Do not Believe in God .
Anyone could not be considered as Believe in God (under Islam category) unless they fully believe in all the books and the prophets have been sent to earth by God.
It is quite clear that in now day Jews, Christians, Sabeans do not believe that Muhammad SAW is a prophet and Quran is God Word otherwise whole world will become muslim then what is our point in sharing God with them while their God is clearly different with the muslim God.
The non-muslim God do not ask anything to mankind if they believe in their Lord everything will be OK and they can do anything as they wanted because their soul will be saved by Lord Of Ring whilst the muslim God has too many and order to mankind like Sholat, Puasa, Zakat and Haji and I do think that there are many non-muslim impressed with your offer in sharing of Islam Heaven and God.I am not the one denying Gods Law, it is you and your fellow Mainstream Muslims, who are saying that Allah’s word is not enough on its own.
You are the one who denying Gods Law and God Truth, you restricted God knowledge and truth in the Quran only while I fully believe GOD truth can be found anywhere, it can be from Kongfuchu teaching, Budha teaching and Hadith or even “kata-2 gembel” and we have Quran, Heart and Brain to check whether the information/speech are true or not.
! have never said that there is no need to pray, I just don’t pray in the ritualistic fashion which you do, As to eating pork, Allah say it is ok if you are forced out of necessity to do it, so why do you deny it? The flesh of swine is clearly prohibited for everyday consumption, but there are circumstance when it is ok. You seem to be making these things up to try and discredit me, it isn’t going to work.
Check again what was the context of my explanation of the red line for the mainstream, I do not deny anything if you want to become infidel is up to you but if you deny in public God “perintah dan larangan” (5 pillar Islam) that clearly stated in Quran while you claim your self as a Muslim that is serious business that we need to deal with.
None of this is Heresy, it is using God given intelligence, plain common sense, and understanding, to read and comprehend what Allah has given us. It is denying Allah’s simple commands and instructions, and taking other than him for sources of Law which makes somebody an Infidel.
You can say anything as long as we have power to deal with “Aliran Sesat” we will send to them very clear message what they will deserve if they want to play with us.
If I was to stop trying to guide to Allah’s Straight Path just because it caused conflict and disagreement, I would be doing my soul a great injustice, and not following the instructions of My Lord given in Al Quran.
If I was to stop trying to return someone to Allah’s Straight Path just because it caused someone labeling on me not tolerance and terrorist, I would be doing my soul a great injustice, and not following the instructions of My Lord given in Al Quran.
I am not judging anybodys religious establishment, that is Allah work, I am simply commenting on it and trying to highlight that others and not just the Mainstream Muslims, have to by my understanding been mislead.
Thank for you enlightenment that highlighting and Bashing are the same
You said:
My understanding, what you did in questioning other belief is useless because 99% people will just believe what they want to believe why we should waste our time in those useless question answer session?”¦.I think it is much better if we recommend people to follow what they believe from their own credible source because if every religion follower follow what they teach properly from their proper and credible source likely the violence in the name of the religion would be minimized
Are we not told in Al Quran to guide others to the Right Path?You are correct that we have obligation to guide other “¦but by What Mean”¦ my understanding that blaming and bashing other understanding and belief is not the wise way to guide the other to the right path just show to them that you are the best example of mankind of your belief by setting example of “How To Walk” rather “How To Talk about Walk” “¦.Oh my God”¦shame on me”¦why I am talking something like this
Do you believe that if we leave Christian, Jewish, or Muslim extremists to follow what they believe is their own “credible source”, they will stop commiting vile acts in Gods name?
Agree those kind of the crowd is more deserved your great lecture than us the ordinary Muslim and non-Muslim who love parties but also love heaven. If you dare to challange those extremist “¦sorry I can help much but my pray will always with you.
Will the mainstream of any of the monotheistic religions following their own “credible sources” ever be in agreement and at peace? We have an obligation to Allah, to try and do something to bring peace, tolerance and understanding to this world, the only way it can happen is if we follow only one “credible source” and that can only be from God.
Hu a hahaha what kind of crap you are offering to us we have no problem live with anybody, any religion and any kind of people”¦I tell you that I work for Company Owned By Infidels”¦and I also running my own small business ..This is also run by an infidel”¦..they are infidel for me whilst me is infidel for them ..so what”¦we do not kill each other “¦.and I believe that the most conflict in this world is not because religion difference but mostly politically and economically motivated.
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Ade Wanto says:
“Brother, we are both not here to change each other’s minds or impose our view of Islam on each other. But mainly to understand each others’ point of view. From our discussions I have learned quite a lot from those who are more or less “Quran only” individuals. Which is fine by me and it matters not to me what your stance is with the hadith is in your personal life. Its a free world brother,” Tuan says.
Assalamualaikum wr wb Brother,
We have to thanks Patung who develop this site. So we can send our point of view to each other.
I really don’t understand where a man like Kahfi learn Islam. In this flat world, we can easily find many sources so we can compare a fake hadith to find a real one.
Maybe our bhrota can find a better understanding about Islam after enroll to
Sharia Academy of America @ http://www.shariaacademy.com/
And, visit http://www.islamic-message.net/English/index.htmLet come and join us
@ http://apps.facebook.com/causes/view_cause/2907?h=pln&recruiter_id=7606375I also thanks to your info:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5960619842161782578&q=hadith+critisim&total=7&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0Peace Brothers.
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Cuk,
You said:Sorry I have to say that I failed to see the difference between Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi and You because Zarqawi also said that His Cause is also the return of mankind to Allah Deen only not other Deen or other religion.
I don’t know what to say, one moment you are comparing me with the prophets and now you are comparing me with terrorists, You seem a little confused?
What is your prove that you are more expert in an Arabic than “Orang Arab”, that is most ridiculous Quran interpretation that I have ever seen even by using the plain common sense it is clearly that the information/speech could be from anywhere not only Hadith, “¦.I am an not expert Tafsir Quran”¦..but I can say that the meaning of those verses is God confirmed the absolute truth of the information in Quran and any information/speech in which do not conform with the Quran, it must be a wrong one. We know that the wrong information could be from anywhere and anytime include a fake hadith or even your twisting Quran interpretation likely also can be categorized as the wrong information
It is not a ridiculous interpretation it is a direct “literal” meaning of the words in the verse. and it clearly asks in which Hadith will you beleive, after being shown Allahs revelations. I have never twisted Al Quran to suit my own desires, I leave that to the followers of Hadith.
You denied the existence of the word hadith in the verse, when it is clearly shown to you you still do not believe it!
It is quite clear that in now day Jews, Christians, Sabeans do not believe that Muhammad SAW is a prophet and Quran is God Word otherwise whole world will become muslim then what is our point in sharing God with them while their God is clearly different with the muslim God.
The non-muslim God do not ask anything to mankind if they believe in their Lord everything will be OK and they can do anything as they wanted because their soul will be saved by Lord Of Ring whilst the muslim God has too many and order to mankind like Sholat, Puasa, Zakat and Haji and I do think that there are many non-muslim impressed with your offer in sharing of Islam Heaven and God.Once again you do not understand the basic principles of Islam, The Jews, Christians and Sabeams do not need to believe in the Prophethood of Nabi Mohammed to be Muslims, I gave you the example of Nabi Ibrahim, who Allah clearly states is a Muslim, he knew nothing of Nabi Mohammed! Allah clearly states that ANY who believe in Him, in the Day of Judgement and does good deeds has nothing to fear!
You say “their God is clearly different with the muslim God.” Do you forget the phrase “La Ilaha Illallah”? There is no God but God?
You are the one who denying Gods Law and God Truth, you restricted God knowledge and truth in the Quran only while I fully believe GOD truth can be found anywhere, it can be from Kongfuchu teaching, Budha teaching and Hadith or even “kata-2 gembel” and we have Quran, Heart and Brain to check whether the information/speech are true or not.
I have never said that Gods knowledge and truth can be found only in Al Quran, I have only said that Gods words can be found there, words which He Himself has promised to protect from corruption, I agree with you that we should use Quran, Heart and Brain to check if things are true or not, and given this fact, and the fact that the people you follow have had 1400 years to check hadith, there are still sahih hadith which denigrate The Prophet, cause untold harm to women, promote religious intolerance and hatred, subdjugate the poor, elevate arab traditions to become religious dogma, and worst of all remove the freedom to question their very nature. Doesn’t this make you think just a little?
but if you deny in public God “perintah dan larangan” (5 pillar Islam) that clearly stated in Quran while you claim your self as a Muslim that is serious business that we need to deal with.
I challenge you to show me in Al Quran where the 5 Pillars of Islam are mentioned. They are another Hadith fabrication my friend.
Lets just take the first pillar as an example, Shahada. Ignoring the fact that the Sunni and Shia have different Sahada, and assuming that you belong to the Sunni Sect.
The Shahadah testimony that is recited by the Sunnis originates from Abu Hurairah and is recorded in the ‘hadith’ – the oral traditions attributed to the prophet Muhammad. The hadith given below is from “Mishkat-ul-Masabih”, translation by Maulana Fazlul Karim, Volume 1, Chapter 1, no.27. (Published by the Book House, Lahore, Pakistan). As there are a many versions of this hadith, the collections of Tirmidzi should also be read.
The hadith regarding the Shahadah says:
One day Abu Hurairah went to the people and told them that the Messenger had authorised him to go and tell them to recite the Shahadah “ash hadu anlaa ilaha illallhu wa ash hadu anna muhammadar-rasulullah”. Another version reads ” muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluhu”. The first person Abu Hurairah came across to give the Shahadah was Saidina Omar (later the second caliph). When Omar heard it he promptly punched Abu Hurairah in the chest and knocked him to the ground. Then Omar put his foot on Abu Hurairah’s neck and asked him how dare he utter such a blasphemy.
Abu Hurairah (who is recorded in the hadith as having received quite u few beatings from Saidina Omar during his lifetime) then cried out and named the Messenger as his authority. When again challenged by Saidina Omar, Abu Hurairah pulled out a pair of leather slippers and showed them to Omar. The slippers, he said, were given to him by the Prophet, as proof for what he was saying. Recognising the prophet’s slippers, Omar simmered down. Everyone then happily started reciting the shahadah. This most incredible story is the background to the Shahadah of Abu Hurairah, which has been adopted by millions of Sunnis.
Contrary to this what does Allah say?:
“72:18 وان المساجد لله Ùلا تدعوا مع الله اØدا——————————————————————————–
Transliteration Waanna almasajida lillahi fala tadAAoo maAAa Allahi ahadan
Literal ‘And that (E) the mosques (are) to God, so do not call anyone with God.’——————————————————————————–
Yusuf Ali “And the places of worship are for Allah (alone): So invoke not any one along with Allah;
Pickthal And the places of worship are only for Allah, so pray not unto anyone along with Allah.
Arberry The places of worship belong to God; so call not, along with God, upon anyone.
Shakir And that the mosques are Allah’s, therefore call not upon any one with Allah:
Sarwar All the parts of the body to be placed on the ground during prostration belong to God. Do not prostrate before anyone other than Him.
Khalifa The places of worship belong to GOD; do not call on anyone else beside GOD.
Hilali/Khan And the mosques are for Allah (Alone), so invoke not anyone along with Allah.
H/K/Saheeh And [He revealed] that the masjids are for Allah, so do not invoke with Allah anyone.
Malik Mosques are built for Allah’s worship; therefore, invoke not anyone along with Allah.[18]
QXP And know that all Masjids are for Allah. (Adoration, prostration, submission is due to Allah alone). Hence, invoke not anyone along with Allah. (9:17). (‘Masjid’ = Mosque = Places of worship = Collective acts of Prostration = Ways of Adoration = Obedience of Divine Commands = Centers of administering the Divine System).
Maulana Ali Say: I only call upon my Lord, and associate naught with Him.
Free Minds And the temples are for God, so do not call on anyone with God.
Qaribullah Mosques belong to Allah, so do not call to anyone else, other than Allah.——————————————————————————–
George Sale Verily the places of worship are set apart unto God: Wherefore invoke not any other therein together with God.
JM Rodwell It is unto God that the temples are set apart: call not then on any other therein with God.——————————————————————————–
Asad And [know] that all worship 14 is due to God [alone]: hence, do not invoke anyone side by side with God!
So once again, by following just the first one of your so called essential 5 pillars of Islam, you are going against Gods clear instructions. You are associating somebody with him in a place which is supposed to devoted to him alone.
You can say anything as long as we have power to deal with “Aliran Sesat” we will send to them very clear message what they will deserve if they want to play with us.
What do you mean “we will send to them very clear message what they will deserve if they want to play with us.”? Do you mean burn them out of their homes, destroy their belongings, throw them in jail? It is very clear that you also don’t understand the meaning of ” There is no compulsion in religion”!
Hu a hahaha what kind of crap you are offering to us we have no problem live with anybody, any religion and any kind of people
That is why you make veiled threats? to show them a very clear message
!”¦I tell you that I work for Company Owned By Infidels”¦and I also running my own small business ..This is also run by an infidel”¦..they are infidel for me whilst me is infidel for them ..so what”¦we do not kill each other “¦.and I believe that the most conflict in this world is not because religion difference but mostly politically and economically motivated.
Whist I agree with your last statement, the difference between us is clearly illustrated in you statments about “Infidels”, the decision about who is an Infidel and who is not should clearly rest with Allah, not Cukurungan.
The way I interpret Islam means that any are free to believe what they want as long as they do not coerce others into following what they believe, your views are obviously somewhat different.
Peace
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Djoko says:
It’s not something I am signing on to, but it is a question I wouldn’t mind putting to Khafi to see what his take on it is.
If we are to follow only God’s information/speech (Hadith, ie the Qur’an), then what do we make of other religious texts such as the Bible? Considering that the Bible itself has undergone a lot of changes (and depending on which Church you are a member of will be different) that must mean it is just as fallible and misleading as Hadith (sayings and actions of Muhammad) in Islam. If that is the case, then when the Qur’an refers to Christians, Jews and Sabeans being on the right path as well, which Christians, Jews and Sabeans would those be? Surely not those who follow a hadith (speech/information) which is as fallible as the hadith of Muhammad?
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Sputjam says:
bahai, islam, christianity and all religion in this world are man created.
When God sent in the scriptures, it warned men about religion, idol worship(any form of worship), preists and clerics, rituals.
The prophets never claimed to be Imams or priests. Their job was to deliever a message from God.
The most important thing for us to remeber is that, in matters pertaining to God, He does not require our worship, for He is free of all wants.
And to those who have faith and believe in God, you are required to abide to His system by doing good and righteous deeds.Those who profess a religion will ignore these messages. They will take their priests as their shepard, and the priest will definitely lead them astray, by making them worship and do other useless rituals.
God is the only reality. If he wants, we can just disappear. But he has made a vow after ADAM disregard his warnings, that for a finite period, we will brought up and be tested in this world, just like ADAM. And if we trangressed, our penalty in the hereafter will be forever.
The more rigid the religious people uphold their religion, the further they stray away from the messages in the scriptures and from doing good deeds. These religious poeple cannot see their deviation, thinking that they are on the straight path (thanks to iblis). That is why we have suicide bombings and such acts all done in the name of religion.
There is no freedom of speech in religion, because they are all full of faults.
Remember, those who inisist on any form of religious worship(idol worship) there is no forgiving.
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In this flat world,
Mmmm, last time I checked the world was round. Did I miss the memo?!
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Djoko,
Al Quran states that it is a confirmation of what came before it. i.e Injil, Torah, Zabur and Suhuf-i-Ibrahim. it is sent as a warning to those who were astray, the Arabs and as a reminder to the peoples of the other books or scriptures.
All through history, God has been trying to give guidance to mankind, in the form of messengers and prophets. They have all been sent with the same message, The most important part of which is to believe in the oneness of God, to understand that there will be a day of judgement and to do good deeds. Unfortunately these simple messages are twisted around by the various religious establishments to suit their own purposes.
The Yahudis were given Torah, but under the instruction of their scribes and priests turned to Talmud, the Christians were given a verbal message through Nabi Isa, Injil, which their religious establishment turned into The Gospels, slowly metamorphosing Nabi Isa from a prophet into a manifestation of God himself, and the Arabs, who were given Al Quran, despite it’s warnings of how the previous holders of Gods Scriptures themselves had ignored the words of God and invented their own versions then went on to do exactly the same thing. Rejecting Al Quran under the influence of their so called scholars by following Sunnah and Hadith.
Once you strip away the extraneous traditions which have attached to faith, you will find that underneath they are all the same, the extraneous matter is added by humans themselves.
As to which of the followers of each faith are on the right path, that is up to God to decide, however if they are one of those who exclude all others of a different faith I don’t think it is too far fetched to suggest that there is a strong possibility that they may not be!
Peace
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The people of certain religion did not realise that the world is round. that is why some faces jerusalem, towrds mecca or even lhasa in tibet when worshipping, thingking that the world is flat.
members of the muslim religion does not believe in the koran being complete and contains no contradiction and the messages therein, that is why they disregard its messages and created new ones in the form of hadith and sunnah.
there is nothing in the koran to dscribe worship rituals simply becasue it is not required.
Jesus cannot be God, because he was created.Humans cannot comprehend that God does not require to be worshipped. All God wants from mankind is good behaviour. During the time of Moses, people worshipped Pharoah, who proclaimed to be God. Nothing was mentioned that Moses did any prayers at all. indeed, if moses neede to communicate with God, he did it at whenever and where ever he likes.
Those who followed moses to escape persecution also cannot understand what moses delivered. they disregarded his messages and worshipped a statue of a heifer(cow). And Moses when he saw what transpired, could not believe his eyes.Similarly, after the death of Mohamed, the meccans and arabs did not comprehend the messages he delivered. They created the hadith and sunnah in order to worship something and also to maintain some of their inherited arab religion of stone worship, by lying that the kaabah was actually built by abraham. Only muslims cannot see that they have been transformed into stone worshippers.
The koran is complete and must not contain any contradiction. If there is a contradiction, then beware. Messages of Moses and jesus have been conrrupted by mankind, What makes you think message relayed by Mohamed survived intact.
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Dragonwall says:
Hi ya… So I see.. But I thought the Muslims is allowed only to have 4 wives? How about suggesting that be changed to 9 or 11.. Lucky numbers..
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bahai, islam, christianity and all religion in this world are man created.
When God sent in the scriptures, it warned men about religion, idol worship(any form of worship), preists and clerics, rituals.
The prophets never claimed to be Imams or priests. Their job was to deliever a message from GodAnd that sounded more like it..
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I don’t have anything to say to you all Brothers except I just keep for myself what Allah says, “For every community, We have ordained a ritual which they observe. Let them not dispute with you concerning this. Let them to the path of your Lord: you are rightly guided. If they argue with you, say: “Allah knows best all that you do. On the Day of Resurrection Allah will judge your differences.” (Quran 22:69)
We have freedom to interpret what Allah says. Indeed, we have an obligation to get as many as possibly all sources to help our understanding about what Allah says. But, there is still no obligation to force someone to do “my right path.”
Are we not told in Al Quran to guide others to the Right Path? The answer is: NO!
“I am not the one denying Gods Law, it is you and your fellow Mainstream Muslims, who are saying that Allah’s word is not enough on its own,” Kahfi says. Indeed, after Quran and Hadiths, Moslems have to ijtihad. Ijtihad does not mean to saying that Allah’s word is not enough on its own. As a Moslem we can freely interpret what Quran say. In Islam tradition, we have a space to be different opinion to each other. We, Moslems, call it, khilafiya.
“I think it is much better if we recommend people to follow what they believe from their own credible source because if every religion follower follow what they teach properly from their proper and credible source likely the violence in the name of the religion would be minimized,” Cukurungan says. You are absolutely right Brother.
If the others say, like this one: Janma says, “in the absence of a qualifying statement I would guess you are just generally asking if the Christians God is the same as the Muslims God. You didn’t ask if they ‘think’ it’s the same God, just if He was the same God. I would say yes to this question, because if He was a different God, then why would it say in the Quran that the other people of the book were all ok and on the right track.”
Does she really know what the meaning of Ahlul Kitab (People of the Book). Does she think the Book that Ahlul Kitab preserve at that time was really different from the Book right now? I think she shall dig it all again the differences between Ahlul Kitab’s Book which stated at Quran and the book at the present time. And, for your knowledge, all the prophets which own the Book sent forth only to his nation -not to all nations. Quran crystal clear mention about the People of the Book. So, as I know, you have read Quran. Check it all, please.
Sputjam Says, “bahai, islam, christianity and all religion in this world are man created.”
I prefer to say all religion are tailored by people thought and their soul faith. Therefore each religion are different. Each religion has their own god(s). Jehova for Jews. Jesus -son of Mary- for Christians. Siddharta Gautama for Buddha. and many god’s name for each religion. Oh, I forgot, Islam has god too, named Allah – the one and only god there is no god beside Allah. If Janma says, “they ‘think’ it’s the same God, just if He was the same God.” Please elaborate your statement.
For us, We believe Allah is one and only god. Therefore, Muslim’s god is different to Christians, and other religion such as Jews, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, and other. Each religion has their god(s), and each religion gods are different. Only Islam has stated crystal clearly there is no god but Allah. I quote this one, Say, “Allah is One, the Eternal Allah. Allah begot none, nor was Allah begotten. None is equal to Allah.”
I don’t want to judge other religion. What their belief is theirs. What we belief is ours. What I belief is mine. What you belief is yours. For us, say, “The other believers, I do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship what I worship. I shall never worship what you worship, nor will you ever worship what I worship. You have your own religion, and I have mine.”
Of course, we have different god. We also have different scriptures – it’s best if we live by heed our own Book. So, we have different way of life. But, we have to sharing space in this tiny world. Of course we have to make some tolerance. But, if you force us to admit that we have a same god and same way of life I must to answer: No, we don’t. Your god is totally different to mine. Your god is yours. Our god is ours. Your way of life is yours. My way is mine. Let’s think how we can live together in this tiny flat world 1) in peace. So, we can break The Glass Wall 2). Live by avoid commit to crime. Live by not jeopardy humanity and diversity.
For many years, some people live by the thought that god is one and the same god has created all religion. Cos there is only one god, there is only one right pathway to god. So, there is only one heaven for the one right pathway to god and human make war to each other to prove their right pathway.
I observe that each religion has their own god. And, each religion has their own heaven. Therefore, all believer of religion shall go to their own god and their own heaven. In this earth, all humankind have a common task: preserve the earth. And, we can live by our different way of life. We can enjoy our diversity in this world. Tolerance means respect differences.
Of course the idea about many different god for many religion won’t accept by some peoples who still believe they must save the other faith. It’s coz, as John Maynard Keynes says, “The difficulties lies, not in the new ideas, but in escaping from the old ones, which ramify; for those brought up as most of us have been, into every corner of our minds.”
Luckily I have free thoughts and deeds. Oh yes there are guidelines in Moslem’s way “¦do unto others as you would want them to do to you”¦ we had it ages before the others did “¦ but we wont complain about them stealing it because we love them and hope they will grow up someday.
Peace Brothers.
1) From Thomas Friedman, author of book “The World is Flat.”
2) From Marin Sorescu “The Glass Wall” – a poemTo make the one world in which we live
most comfortable
with a glass wall we have divided it
into the zonesEvery advance, of course,
has its drawbacks.
If, for instance, one feels
like having a good bath
one now has to cross over
into the other world
to get the soapAll the same,
each one of us can boast
of a two-world apartment
(furnished in different styles,
it goes without saying)
with a communal sun, for the moment
and separate access
to earth. -
Kahfi says, “I challenge you to show me in Al Quran where the 5 Pillars of Islam are mentioned. They are another Hadith fabrication my friend.”
Bro, please check these verses in Quran:
1. 42:11 verses in Quran mention about Shahadah;
2. 4:103 and 107:7-4 verses in Quran mention about Shalat;
3. 98:5 verses in Quran mention about Zakat;
4. 2:183-185 verses in Quran mention mentioned about Sawm in Ramadhan;
5. 3:97 verses in Quran mention about Hajj.Kahfi Says, “You say “their God is clearly different with the muslim God.” Do you forget the phrase “La Ilaha Illallah”? There is no God but God?”
Come on Bro, if you read Quran and Hadiths with your head and your great heart so carefully what is meaning of LaillahaillAllah, you can easily find that phrase means: Allah crystal clearly tells us that there are many gods beside Allah therefore Allah tells us do not worship other god except Allah. Allah tells us there is no god beside Allah. If you think Allah did not mention us that there are not many god beside Allah, please give us just a single reason.
Sputjam Says, “The koran is complete and must not contain any contradiction. If there is a contradiction, then beware. Messages of Moses and jesus have been conrrupted by mankind, What makes you think message relayed by Mohamed survived intact.”
Of course Quran is complete and does not have any contradiction. If you can find any single verse does not complete and have contradiction, please tell and show us.
Why have messages from Moses and Jesus corrupted? Because, those books: Torah of Moses, Psalm of David, the Injil (Gospel) and the Scrolls of Abraham, are not in their original languages (if you have a single verse of those books in their original language, please show us) and those books are distorted and mixed with human words.
Quran was recorded as soon as it was revealed and was memorised by heart by Muslims. Even all printed publication material of Quran book in the whole world burned, the Holy Quran (what Allah’s says delivered to Muhammad by Gabriel) will never change a single world. Since the first verse of Quran delivered, many peoples have been memorising verses of Quran until this day. Can you show us who memorise Bible?
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Cuk, you said:
It is quite clear that in now day Jews, Christians, Sabeans do not believe that Muhammad SAW is a prophet and Quran is God Word otherwise whole world will become muslim then what is our point in sharing God with them while their God is clearly different with the muslim God.
I said:
“The Jews, Christians and Sabeans do not need to believe in the Prophethood of Nabi Mohammed to be Muslims”
Allah says:
And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil).
And the followers of the Injeel should judge by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.Peace
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Khafi,
thank you for all the information, but you’re kind of dancing around the point. I just have been noticing a kind of contradiction in your arguments that on the one hand with Cuk you say that Muslims who take the Hadith of Muhammad as any kind of reference in religion are necessarily transgressing God’s commands, but yet on the other hand you’re saying religions with equally fallible texts such as Christianity and Judaism are just as entitled to the afterlife as Muslims.
Ultimately yes, it is up to God to decide who is right and who is not, and I can understand that you see your role as one of just recommendation – pointing out to people what the right path is and leaving it up to them to decide what to do. However it appears at times you’re being a bit inconsistent about it by on the one hand condemning Muslims who take the Hadith as a guide while not doing the same with regards to people who follow the (modern versions of the) Bible and Talmud.
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Djoko said:
However it appears at times you’re being a bit inconsistent about it by on the one hand condemning Muslims who take the Hadith as a guide while not doing the same with regards to people who follow the (modern versions of the) Bible and Talmud.
me :
If in now days, the people who call them self Jews and Christian follow and obey the law written in the Torah and Injil , It will be no adult males christian and Jew still have complete of two pair hand because most them must be subjected to a hand amputation …because most theirs hand already touched and grabbed the pussy women that not theirs wife’s.
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Djoko,
You need to read more of the articles here on Indonesia Matters, when I am talking about the Jews and Christians, etc, following their scriptures, I am referring to the original messages. In the article titled Vespa Lifestyle, a Christian, Niamh Piperman and I had an exchange on this very subject, discussing the meaning of the word Injeel in Al Quran, and the history of the Christian Gospels.
My belief is that Nabi Isa carried a verbal message, He is after all known by many Christians as ‘The Word’, the Gospels are however not that message, they are infact biographical histories of Nabi Isa. Even Christian biblical scholars agree that they are from a number of different sources and dates. The earliest Gospels, do not say anything about Nabi Isa being the Son of God, whilst the later ones progressively introduce this concept, it was not infact until the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. that the concept as Nabi Isa being the ‘Son of God’ and ‘Trinity’ was accepted as orthodoxy.
Cuk you said:
If in now days, the people who call them self Jews and Christian follow and obey the law written in the Torah and Injil , It will be no adult males christian and Jew still have complete of two pair hand because most them must be subjected to a hand amputation “¦because most theirs hand already touched and grabbed the pussy women that not theirs wife’s.
And amputation of hands for this act is in which Hadith Cuk? Good job it is not applied in Saudi Arabia isn’t it? If it was they would certainly have to increase the number of cars with automatic gearboxes!
Peace
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Teng says:
If in now days, the people who call them self Jews and Christian follow and obey the law written in the Torah and Injil , It will be no adult males christian and Jew still have complete of two pair hand because most them must be subjected to a hand amputation “¦because most theirs hand already touched and grabbed the pussy women that not theirs wife’s.
Ofcourse… because Christians and Jews cheat…. while Muslims are loyal.
Your prejudices keep surprising me.. your ignorance too btw
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Kahfi says, “And the followers of the Injeel should judge by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.”
Is it true that Quran mention about Injeel? Whoops. As far as I know Quran mention only about the People of the Book and Jesus -son of Mary- to whom Allah sent forth as an apostle to Israelities (Bani Israel). As a world Injeel was introduced by Christians not in Quran. I still can’t find a word Injeel in Quran. Could you show me where is the verse in Quran that contain a word “Injeel”?
Kahfi says, “My belief is that Nabi Isa carried a verbal message,”
All the Prophet who have Book carried verbal mesage. Thats why Moslems have been memorising verses of Quran and then for the first time Khalifa Omar collected it in a book. Still, there are many Moslems memoring verses of Quran. So it is not difficult when someone want to print Quran in a book, to check it in original language as same as when Quran revealed to Muhammad. Because it was not many people memorising what Jesus word and David word, many Christians and Jews have been facing difficulty when they intend to collect a real verse about Jesus’s word and David’s word. Until this day, they have not found a single word of Jesus’ or David in its original language yet.
Djoko says, “Ultimately yes, it is up to God to decide who is right and who is not, and I can understand that you see your role as one of just recommendation – pointing out to people what the right path is and leaving it up to them to decide what to do. However it appears at times you’re being a bit inconsistent about it by on the one hand condemning Muslims who take the Hadith as a guide while not doing the same with regards to people who follow the (modern versions of the) Bible and Talmud.”
Each religion has their own god and each religion has their own path to reach their own gods and heaven (WHATSOEVER their gods and heaven). For me, I simply have to respect every difference. So I can live in diversity of people. Still, I don’t have to ill, humiliate and disgrace others except they do first. And, for sure, I don’t have to give my right after they slapt my left.
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taxpayer says:
Here is a whole gammot of contradictions for ya’ all to chew on.
How many angels were talking to Mary?
In Sura 3:42, 45 SEVERAL angels appear to Mary in the annunciation of the birth of Jesus. In Sura 19:17-21 only ONE angel appears to the virgin Mary.
Allah’s day is equal to how many human years?
In Sura 22:47 and 32:5 Allah’s day is equal to 1,000 human years.
In Sura 70:4, Allah’s day is equal to 50,000 human years.How many gardens’ are there in paradise?
In Sura 18:31, 22:23, 25:33, and 78:32 there are many gardens in Paradise.
In Sura 41:30 and 57:21 there is said to be only one garden in Paradise.How many groups will there be at the last judgment?
Sura 56:7 says there will be three distinct groups of people at the Last Judgment.
Sura 90:18-19 and 99:6-8 say there will be two distinct groups at the Last Judgment.Who takes people’s souls at death?
Sura 32:11 The angel of death
Sura 47:27 The angels (plural)
Sura 39:42 “It is Allah that takes the souls at death”How many wings do angels have?
Sura 35:1 Angels have 2, 3, or 4 pairs of wings
The angel Gabriel had 600 wings. (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455)How many days did Allah need to destroy the people of Aad?
Sura 54:19 – One day
Sura 41:16 & 69:6,7 – several daysHow many days did creation take?
Sura 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 all clearly state that God created “the heavens and the earth” in six days.
Sura 41:9-12, the detailed description of the creation procedure, add up to eight days.Which was created first, the heavens or the earth?
Sura 2:29 says the earth was created first and then heaven.
Sura 49:27-30 says the heaven was created first and then the earth was created.Heaven and earth ripped apart or called together?
Sura 41:11 states that in the process of creation heaven and earth were first apart and are called to come together.
Sura 21:30 states that they were originally one piece and then ripped apart.Does Allah forgive shirk?
Sura 4:48, 116 No
Sura 4:153, 25:68-71 YesMoses and the Injil
Sura 7:157 Allah speaks to Moses about what is written in the Injil (the book given to Jesus)
Jesus was born more than 1,000 years after MosesWho brings the revelation from Allah to Muhammad?
Sura 2:97 – The Angel Gabriel
Sura 16:102 – The Holy SpiritSurah 18:89-98 says Alexander the Great was a devout Muslim and lived to a ripe old age. Alexander the Great. Historical records show that Alexander the Great died young at 33 years of age. He believed he was divine and forced others to recognize him as such. In India on the Hyphasis River Alexander erected twelve altars to twelve Olympian gods.
Surah 9:30 says the Jews believe that Ezra is the Son of God – the Messiah Ezra the son of God This has never been a tenet of Judaism.
Surah 20:90-100 says a Samaritan helped the Israelites build the golden calf, and it mooed after coming out of the fire. The Golden Calf Samaritans did not exist as a people until at least 1000 years after the time of Moses and the Israelite exodus from Egypt.
– In Sura 2:249 Muhammad confuses the persons of Saul (Talut) and Gideon. See: Judges 7:4-7
– In Sura 26:54 the Israelites were said to be “a scanty band” (small band); vastly inferior to the Egyptians. But in Exodus 1:7-10 the Egyptian king said to his people that the Israelites had become “more and mightier than we”. Exodus 1:9 speaks of the Hebrews as multitudes.
– The Koran confused the sister of Moses by implication (Miriam) with Mary, the mother of Jesus 3 times. And Muhammad seemed to think that Jesus was Moses’ nephew, the son of Moses’ sister Mariam. Mary, the mother of Jesus, and Miriam the sister of Moses actually lived about 1500 years apart. The entire Chapter 19 is devoted to Mary (Maryam) the mother of Jesus in the Qur’an.
Sura 19:28, “O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!”
Sura 66.12 calls Mary ‘daughter of lmran”. lmran is the Arabic form of the Hebrew Amram mentioned in Numbers 26.59 as the father of “Aaron, Moses and Miriam.” The title “sister of Aaron” is given to Miriam in Exodus 15.20. Sura 3.35-36, The wife of Amram said, “My Lord, I have dedicated (the baby) in my belly to You, totally, so accept from me. You are Hearer, Omniscient.”
– How many angels were talking to Mary? When the Qur’an speaks about the annunciation of the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary, Sura 3:42,45 speaks about angels (plural) while it is only one in Sura 19:17-21. The Christian Bible clearly indicated one angel; “In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth,” Luke 1:26
– Jesus taught people even in his “old age”. (Sura 5:110). Actually Jesus ascended into Heaven while
in His mid 30’s.
– Do you remember the evil Persian Haman who conspired to kill all the Jews during the time of Esther in the Babylonian captivity (about 500 BC). In the Koran, Muhammad incorrectly taught that this wicked man Haman was the prime minister of the Egyptian Pharaoh (Firon) in Moses’ time (1450 BC). See Suras 28:4-6, 28:38, 29:39, 40:23-24,and 40:36-37. Throughout the Qur’an–Nimrod and Abraham, Haman and Moses, Mary and Aaron, the tower of Babel (2500 BC) and Pharaoh were all
pictured as living and working together. Moses and the flood are also incorrectly found together. Muhammad thought these all happened at the same time. Muhammad was always mixing people together in the Qur’an who did not live at the same time. See Suras 21:51-76; and 29:15-16.
– What about Noah’s (Nuh) son? According to Sura 21:76, Noah and his family is saved from the flood, and Suras 29:15 and 37:76-77 confirms that his seed survived. But Sura 11:42-43 reports that Noah’s son drowns.
– Sura 7:59 and 7:136 say Noah’s flood took place in Moses’ day. Did anyone tell Moses that?
– Sura 14:37, says Abraham lived in the valley of Mecca (Muslim Sacred House). The Bible says he lived in Hebron, Israel. (Genesis 13:18, 23:2, 35:27)
– Sura 9:30 mistakenly claims that the Jews believed that Ezra was the Son of God, the Messiah, just as Christians claim for Jesus. No Jews have ever believed this.
– Sura 6:74, says Abraham father’s name was Azar. The Bible says it was Terah (Genesis 11:27).
How can Muhammad claim he verified the Torah which came first as true, yet differ with the facts in the Torah?
– Sura 9:10 says Zakarias was mute for only 3 days. The Bible says Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist, was made mute because of his unbelief concerning Gabriel’s prophecy of John’s birth. He would remain mute until the baby was born (Luke 1:20), which is roughly nine months.
– Islam says it was Ishmael that was nearly sacrificed on the mountain rather than Isaac as both the Torah and Christian Gospels say. Islam says that Hagar was the legitimate wife (and not a concubine) of Abraham, rather than Sarah; so Ishmael was the heir of Abraham. But wait! Muhammad had already attested to the Bible and Torah as being correct. Then why these huge errors? Of note: After Muhammad’s death, the Meccans (Waraquah) changed the name Isaac in Suras 2:125 and 127 for the name Ishmael and invented the story about Abraham taking Ishmael to their black rock in Mecca, so that pilgrims would continue to visit Mecca.– Sura 5:72, The Quran falsely teaches that Jesus is not the Messiah. The Holy Injeel says He is.
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Ade Wanto said:
Is it true that Quran mention about Injeel? Whoops. As far as I know Quran mention only about the People of the Book and Jesus -son of Mary- to whom Allah sent forth as an apostle to Israelities (Bani Israel). As a world Injeel was introduced by Christians not in Quran. I still can’t find a word Injeel in Quran. Could you show me where is the verse in Quran that contain a word “Injeel”?
Waqaffayna AAala atharihim biAAeesa ibni maryama musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi mina alttawrati waataynahu al-injeela feehi hudan wanoorun wamusaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi mina alttawrati wahudan wamawAAithatan lilmuttaqeena 5:46
Walyahkum ahlu al-injeeli bima anzala Allahu feehi waman lam yahkum bima anzala Allahu faola-ika humu alfasiqoona 5:47
Muhammadun rasoolu Allahi waallatheena maAAahu ashiddao AAala alkuffari ruhamao baynahum tarahum rukkaAAan sujjadan yabtaghoona fadlan mina Allahi waridwanan seemahum fee wujoohihim min athari alssujoodi thalika mathaluhum fee alttawrati wamathaluhum fee al-injeeli kazarAAin akhraja shat-ahu faazarahu faistaghlatha faistawa AAala sooqihi yuAAjibu alzzurraAAa liyagheetha bihimu alkuffara waAAada Allahu allatheena amanoo waAAamiloo alssalihati minhum maghfiratan waajran AAatheeman 48:29
And also in 57: 27, 3:3, 3:48, 3:65, 5:66, 5:68 , 5:110, 7:157, and 9:111.
And just for your information it was not I who said “And the followers of the Injeel should judge by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.” it was Allah:Walyahkum ahlu al-injeeli bima anzala Allahu feehi waman lam yahkum bima anzala Allahu faola-ika humu alfasiqoona 5:47
And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors. 5:47Ade Wanto said:
Are we not told in Al Quran to guide others to the Right Path? The answer is: NO!
Well maybe its NO! for you Ade, but Al Quran states:Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way. 16:125
As to the ‘5 pillars of Islam’ My bad English, I should have said “I challenge you to show me in Al Quran where the 5 Pillars of Islam IS mentioned”. I didn’t mean the individual acts, I meant the concept of “5 Pillars” it just doesn’t exist, as I said, a Hadith fabrication from Bukhari and Muslim, who also gave us such classics as women are the majority in hell, the devil urinates in peoples ears if they sleep during prayers, people going to hell if they got urine on their clothes, Setan sleeps in your nose at night, etc, etc……
Ade Wanto said:
Come on Bro, if you read Quran and Hadiths with your head and your great heart so carefully what is meaning of LaillahaillAllah, you can easily find that phrase means: Allah crystal clearly tells us that there are many gods beside Allah therefore Allah tells us do not worship other god except Allah. Allah tells us there is no god beside Allah. If you think Allah did not mention us that there are not many god beside Allah, please give us just a single reason.
“La” means no, nothing, negating of what follows.
“Ilaha” means Deity, God, One to be worshipped, One who has power to satisfy your needs and answer your prayer, One who is in control of your affairs, One who can comfort you; provide protection and support for you.
“Illa” means only, but, if not, except.
“‘llah” means Allah, Al-lah! ( A contraction of Al-Ilaha, The God)
No God, but The God.
I would suggest that your teachers have told you that the phrase means many gods, just so they don’t have to accept the universality that There is only one God and that he has given his message to many peoples over time.
And verily We have raised in every nation a messenger, (proclaiming): Serve Allah and shun false gods. Then some of them (there were) whom Allah guided, and some of them (there were) upon whom error had just hold. Do but travel in the land and see the nature of the consequence for the deniers! 16:36
Ade, you pointed out the corruption of previous scriptures, by reason of translation and addition by mankind. You highlighted the originality and unchanged nature of Al Quran, don’t you think it a great shame that most people don’t even read Al Quran, you yourself didn’t even know that the word Injeel is in Al Quran 12 times. A shame that they have an unchanged source direct from God, but still follow traditions and practices from Hadith And Sunnah, for which Allah has afforded no protection whatsoever, and even tells them not to use in Al Quran.
Peace
Comment on “Bahai”.
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Tuan,
You just don’t get it do you, Al Quran does not need any help from manmade sources.
If Allah had wished for all details of our daily lives to be orchestrated as they are by Hadith He would have told us so in Al Quran, however He says:
If all the trees on earth were made into pens, and the ocean supplied the ink, augmented by seven more oceans, the words of GOD would not run out. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise. 31:27
Did Allah make Al Quran so difficult to understand that we need 40 volumes of Hadith to explain it? No:
And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54:17
And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54:22
And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54:32
And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54:40
Repeated 4 times in one Surah, yet you still don’t accept it!
You will also find that the only Sunnah mentioned in Al Quran is Allah’s Sunnah. See 17:77, 33:62, 48:23.
Also:
Why do they not study the Quran ? Or are there locks on their hearts? 47:24
When they are told, “Follow what GOD has revealed herein,” they
say, “We follow only what we found our parents doing.” What if their parents
did not understand, and were not guided? 2:171
You talk about weak and authentic hadiths, how about some of these Authentic Sahih Hadith:
(1) How many times to wash in Wudu (Ablution), once, twice, three times ….??
Check:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 159:
Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts only once.
__________________
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 160:
Narrated ‘Abdullah bin Zaid:
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts twice.
___________________
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 196:
Narrated ‘Abdullah bin Zaid:
Once Allah’s Apostle came to us and we brought out water for him in a brass pot. He performed ablution thus: He washed his face thrice, and his forearms to the elbows twice, then passed his wet hands lightly over the head from front to rear and brought them to front again and washed his feet (up to the ankles).
(2-a) DO NOT CROSS YOUR LEG;
Gaber Ibn Abdullah said, ” The messenger of God prohibited a man from crossing one leg over the other while lying down on his back ” Moslem
(2) CROSS YOUR LEG;
Ebada Ibn Tameem said , his father said that he saw the messenger of God lying down on his back in the mosque while crossing his legs.” Moslem
(3) DO NOT DRINK STANDING UP;
Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said, “Do not drink while standing up, if someone forgot and did it, he should vomit what he drank.”
Sahih Moslem
(4) DRINK STANDING UP;
Ibn Abbas said, “The messenger of God drank from the water of Zamzam while standing up….” Sahih Moslem.
(5) URINATE IN A STANDING POSITION:
“The Prophet urinated in a standing position” Bukhary
(6) DO NOT URINATE IN A STANDING POSITION;
“The Prophet never urinated in a standing position.” Hanbel.
(7) END OF THE WORLD IN 100 YEARS;
In Bukhary, vol.1
” There will not be on the surface of Earth after one hundred years, one newborn (or created) human being.”
Now after about 1400 years this hadith did not happen. The Prophet Muhammed could not say such a lie, but people who believe in falsehood cannot help but believe in it and put it in a book and call it AUTHENTIC (Sahih).
The corruption of Bukhary is obvious in this hadith. This hadith states that there will be no more NEW human beings 100 years after Muhammed. Despite the fact that this hadith was collected by Bukhary more than 200 hundred years after the death of the Prophet, and is obviously a LIE and a FABRICATION, and the prophet Muhammed could not have said it, Bukhary still included this lie in his SAHIH (Authentic hadiths). Bukhary did not care about what the hadiths say or teach but cared to find good Isnad (Chain of narrators). He failed in his Isnad and in his Sahih, and in his Islam. Bukhary corrupted his own book and Islam by many of these FALSE hadiths that, many deceived Muslims cherish and in doing so commit idol-worship. The Prophet Muhammed will complain to God on the Day of Judgment from him and from all the puppets who followed his footsteps. See 25:30
(8) MAN IN THE IMAGE OF GOD :
Sahih Moslem; (Contradicting the Quran)
Abu Hurayra said that the messenger of God said; ” If one of you fight his brother, do not strike him in the face. And do not say may God make you ugly, because God made Adam in His image.”
Another Lie and Fabrication narrated by Abu Hurayra, and accepted by Moslem. This is the same lie you find in the Bible. Quran is clear on How God looks like. Check it your self, see 6:103, 42:11, and the story of Moses in 7:14
(9) ADAM IS 60 CUBITS LENGTH HIGH AND 7 CUBITS LENGTH WIDE;
Musnad Ahmad;
Abu Hurayra said, the prophet said; ” God created Adam, 60 cubits high and seven cubits wide.”
” Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created Adam in His own image with His Length of sixty cubits…” (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 4, p. 1481, #6809; emphasis added)
It is interesting to know that Imam Malik denied the authenticity of this hadith.
(10) MUHAMMED HAS NO MERCY;
Sahih Bukhary; and Hanbel.
Bukhary, Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234:
“A group of people from the Oreyneh and Oqayelh tribes came to the prophet to embrace Islam, the prophet advised them to drink the urine of the camels. Later on when they killed the prophet’s shepherd, the prophet seized them, gouged out their eyes, cut their hands and legs, and left them thirsty in the desert to die.”
This is the picture that Hadith books depict Muhammed. Compare this picture with the way God describes him in the Quran.
(11) WOMEN, DOGS AND MONKEYS;
Hadiths insult women.
Sahih Bukhary 8/102 and Hanbel 4/86
“If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes infront of a praying person, his prayer is nullified.”
This hadith that was narrated by Abu Hurayra was strongly denied by Aysha, the Prophet’s wife and accused Abu Hurayra of not telling the truth. Despite that this hadiths is still found in the middle of the so called authentic (Sahih) hadiths.
(12)BAD OMEN IN THE WOMAN:
Sahih Bukhary 76/53
“Bad omen is in the woman, the horse and the home.”
Another reflection of the prejudice against women that was a character of those who fabricated hadiths. Islam (Submission in English) gives full respect to the woman and never used such description that makes the woman like the dog, the monkey or any bad omen.
(13) NO DISTINCTION AMONG THE MESSENGERS, CONTRADICTION
Hadiths books are full of stories that make the Prophet Muhammed better than all the other Prophets and human beings. These hadiths are contradicting other hadiths, that I will mention and contradicting the teachings of the Quran. This is the violation of the Quran where God states that we, as believers, should not make any distinction among His messengers, see 2:285. Those who have been claiming to follow the hadiths books have conveniently ignored the repeated hadiths that call on the believers not to make distinction among the messengers. The following Hadiths show the contradiction in the hadiths books themselves regarding this matter.
Sahih Moslem;
“Ibn Abbas said, the prophet said; “No one should say that I am better than Younus (Jonah) Ibn Matta.”
Here the Prophet Muhammed is asking the people NOT to make him better than Younus.
Sahih Moslem;
“Abu Hurayra said, a Muslim man and a Jew got in an argument,
the Muslim said I swear by the One who Chose Muhammed over the whole world. The Jew said , I swear by the One who chose Moses over the whole world. The Muslim man raised his hand and slapped the Jew on his face. The Jew went to the Prophet Muhammed and complained . The messenger of God said, ” Do not make me better than Moses.” The people will fall unconscious (in the Last Day), and I will be the first to wake up, and I will find Moses already there by the “Aarsh” throne of God. I would not know whether he fell unconscious also and wake up before me, or God excluded him from that.”
Sahih Moslem;
Anas Ibn Malik said; a man came to the messenger of God and said, O you, the best of all people, (Khayer Al-Baryeh) The messenger of God said; “this would be Ibrahim (Abraham) peace be upon him.”
Sahih Moslem
Abu Saeed Al-Khudry said, the messenger of God said, “Do NOT make distinction among the prophets.
Do they take heed ?
(14) MUHAMMED AND THE MAGIC SPELL;
Sahih Moslem and Sahih Bukhary had the long hadith that tells of the prophet Muhammed suffering of a magic spell, casted on him by a Jewish man from Bany Zuriq, The prophet (according to this lie), was so affected by the spell that he was not aware of what he says or does. He would think he had intercourse with his wives when he did not. This is one of the biggest insult to the Prophet Muhammed. This lie is repeated in both books of Bukhary and Moslem. This lie is called SAHIH
HADITH. The messenger of God has to know every second what he is doing and what he is saying. This is just another example of the fabrications and lies that they call SAHIH.
(15) INSULT OF GOD;
Sahih Bukhary 97/24, 10/129 and comment on verse 68:42
“On the day of Judgment, God will open His leg and show His thigh to the Prophet.”
“God will show His leg to the believers and they will fall prostrate.”
Remember what God said about Himself in the Quran. in 42:11, and 6:103. Also remember what God told Moses when Moses asked God if he can look at Him (God) .
(16) INSULTING MUHAMMED;
Sahih Bukhary;
Section of Ghusul (washing after intercourse)
Anas Ibn Malik said, The Prophet Muhammed used to go by all his wives and have intercourse with them within one hour, day or night. and they were eleven wives.We asked ; “How can he do it?” He said, we were talking about the prophet given the sexual power of thirty men.
Another Sahih Lie from the Sahih book of Bukhary. Notice that Bukhary accepted that hadith even when the hadtith talks about eleven wives while historically the prophet is known to have only nine wives.
They tried to make Muhammed a superman by giving him the sexual power of thirty men. They invented a lie and put it in a SAHIH book.
Does Muhammed need their lies to be honored ? NO.
Is this what the Quran teaches about our beloved Prophet ? NO.
Is this What the TRUE Muslim care about Muhammed ? NO.
Is it a surprise that Muhammed will complain to God on the Day of Judgment because the Muslims deserted the Quran, for other lies and fabrications, see 25:30 ? NO
(17) INSULTING WOMEN AGAIN, & NON-SENSE;
Sahih Bukhary and Moslem;
Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said; “If it was not for the Jews (Children of Israel),the food would have never deteriorated and the meat would have never turned bad (rot, decay or spoil). & If it was not for EVE, no WOMAN would have ever cheated on her husband.”
Again a blasphemy against God and His prophet. Insulting women and dogs is a characteristic feature of Abu Hurayra’s attitude. The Prophet Muhammed could not have said this NON-SENSE. They still however put it in their Sahih (Authentic) Hadiths Books. This is a direct violation of Quran and known facts. Abu Hurayra did not know then ,that there is living germs that make the food and meat turn bad even before the creation of the Jews. Quran never blamed EVE for the sin that Adam and Eve committed. Blaming all the women in the world for supposedly a sin that Eve committed is against the basic Quranic principles and against the justice of God, the Most Merciful. See 6:164
Should we believe God or believe Abu Hurayra?
(18) WOMEN AND LEADERSHIP;
Sahih Bukhary;
Abu Bakara said the messenger of God said;
“Any community whose leader is a woman will never succeed”
Another lie in the name of the prophet that has no support from the Quran. This hadith actually proves the corruption of Imam Al-Bukhary himself who accepted this hadith from Abu Bakara, a man known to have lied and punished in public by Omar Ibn Al-Khattab. According to the rules of God in the Quran, Abu Bakara ‘s testimony (hadiths) should have never been accepted. See 24:4
From this lie the Muslim scholars put the women down and denied her the right to be in any leading position . This hadith has no support from history or from the Quran. Check the Quran and the story of Queen of Sheba, who became a Muslim (Submittter) ad led a great nation as a woman.
(19) KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN;
Sahih Moslem;
3 Hadiths about attacking the disbelievers.Ibn Abbas said , Al-Saab Ibn Guthama said, we asked the messenger of God about the women and children killed during the attack on the disbelievers, and he said they are from among them (like them) (like their parents).
BLASPHEMY against God, Islam and the prophet. This lie included in the Sahih books are another example of the blasphemy these fabrication carry against the prophet.
It contradicts the well known Muslim history when the prophet specifically told his soldiers not to kill the children and women. No WONDER the messenger of God will complain to God from these Muslims who accepted these SAHIH LIES, see 25:30.
(20) KILL THE DOGS;
Bukhary’s Sahih;
“Ibn Omar said the messenger of God ordered us to kill the DOGS.”
Ibn Hanbal’s collection; The messenger of God said;
” You shall kill all black DOGS, because they are devils.”
Another NON-SENSE and insult to the Islam, the prophet and God. These lies and fabrications are listed in the SAHIH books of Hadiths. Do you wonder why God called His book, the BEST HADITH? It does not have any of this non-sense.
GOD wants us to uphold only His Hadiths, the Quran.
“Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which HADITH, besides this (Quran) do they believe in?” 7:185
These are just a few examples which show how impressive the science of Hadith authentication is and how many people are being led astray by these lies and corruption of men.
Peace