Learning Islam

Aug 7th, 2007, in News, by

Indonesian Muslims still have some way to go in learning Islam.

The minister of religion, Maftuh Basyuni said on 4th August that Islam did not teach violence or radicalism, and radicalism could not be allowed to flourish Indonesia because most people were opposed to it and it had no basis in the Quran. He advised people to not only read the Quran a lot but to learn it and understand it.

Maftuh Basyuni
Maftuh Basyuni, jealous obsession.

Muslims must also give room for people of other religions, he said, because in the Quran it was written: “for you your religion, for me my religion”.

He was speaking in Ciawi, West Java, after laying the foundation stone for a printing press building that will be the first centre of Quran printing production in Indonesia, costing 26 billion rupiah to build and expected to produce about one million copies by the end of 2007.

My obsession is that within two years it will be printing five million copies a year.

He admitted to being jealous that Indonesia was the biggest centre of Bible production in south-east Asia, and hoped that the press could produce cheap, pocked-sized Qurans so that people could learn Islam anywhere. antara

Meanwhile in Jakarta former president Megawati Soekarnoputri, not ordinarily known as an authority on religion, spoke on a similar theme after appointing the first office-bearers of the PDI-P’s new Muslim political wing Baitul Muslimin Indonesia (Bamusi, BMI).

Megawati Soekarnoputri
Megawati Soekarnoputri, there’s more to life than shopping.

She said it was peculiar now that Indonesia had entered an era of democracy and respect of human rights that some people went about committing violence in the name of Islam. The founding fathers in 1945 knew that sectarian conflicts were dangerous because they weakened the country and allowed colonialists a foot in the door. The violence that had occurred in Central Sulawesi, the Moluccas, and West Kalimantan should serve as motivation for Indonesian Muslims to learn what Islam was really about, she said. mediaindo


306 Comments on “Learning Islam”

  1. Mohammed Khafi says:

    “Whatever the Messenger gives you take it, and whatever he forbids you abstain from it.” [Sûrah al-Hashr: 7]

    It may come as some suprise to Dawud, but The Prophet is Dead!

    What Dawud follows is not The Prophet but some strange collection of heresay and fabricated stories, which were collected some 200 years after the Prophet died.

    I repeat…. Torah, Zabur, Injeel, and Al Quran are Divinely Inspired, however, sunnah and hadith are the corrupt works of men who were striving to control the people and place them under their own control.

    Dawud said:

    By trying to change Islamic foundations and history you are challenging the Allaah and the consensus of the Muslims who have come down a long chain of command (i.e. the science of isnad)

    What Dawud does not understand is that it is what he follows which has changed the Islamic Foundations. Sunnah and Hadith have changed the face of Islam from what The Prophet brought which was Al Quran. I have shown him numerous contradictions from what he has quoted from his sunnah and hadith compared to what is in Al Quran, and he hasn’t been able to answer any of them. He is a master of avoidance, because he knows that faced with even simple questions he will fall flat on his face.

    The Science of Isnad? What a joke, how can you have a science of heresay? It wouldn’t be allowed in a court of law as evidence in a criminal case and people like Dawud want to use it as the basis for deciding what The Prophet said and did, so they can gamble their souls on it? Get real Dawud. Divinely inspired, or manmade? Your choice, but don’t try and force you pitiful garbage on the Indonesian people, we don’t need it.

    For an example of how two faced this Dawud is read this:

    alluded that is was suffocating to live in a country that dictates to its sujbects (like PAP does in a monarchist/dictatorial way) how to live and think from cradle to grave. Singapore has long been trying to compete with its perennial rival, Hong Kong, yet lags far behind. Do you know the reason for this?

    From the Bangkok Post Forum

    He complains about dictatorial policies in Singapore yet wants to come here and impose his religious beliefs on us!

    Dawud, get yourself over to Saudi Arabia and sort them out first, they have had The Prophet’s message longer than anybody, but still seem to manage to be corrupt and nepotistic, not to mention lascivious and hypocritical.

    Peace

  2. Lairedion says:

    Dear Janma,

    Hahahahaha. A little more respect for my grandmother please. It was just her little counter attack to the Dutch who were always moaning about how they also helped to develop the then Dutch East Indies civilization when they were criticized for their colonial behaviour. Remember that in the colonial days all colonized people were regarded as stupid and needed to be “developed” or stripped for their own interest. An arrogant display of Eurocentric behaviour and some Dutch/Westerners are still having this “disease”.

    And she had a point. What were the Dutch doing in 700-900 AD? Trying to keep their feet dry.

    Did my beloved grandmother say anything about Greek and Romans? No. Try to read better next time.

  3. Janma says:

    Actually there was no such thing as ‘the dutch’ in 700 -900 ad…..
    and I don’t know how dry indonesians feet were in the same period sweetie….. I mean, someone built borobodur, just like someone built the aquaduct etc….. but the rest of the populace? nuff said.

  4. Lairedion says:

    Mbak Janma,

    You made me blush by calling me a sweetie. For you being a woman I happily accept that!

    that was said by someone who knows nothing about history! and what were the javanese living in in those days? Palaces? or maybe gedeg? maybe sticks”¦ definitely not bricks!

    Why are you so angry? It’s just a funny statement my grandmother made that I’ve kept in remembrance ever since. Like I said before it was a counter attack to arrogant Dutch.

    My grandmother hardly spoke about this matter as she indeed knew little about history. She was a devout Catholic woman, devoted much of her time reading the Bible and was proud of her Javanese ancestry (Banyumas koek). It happened on a night when there were hefty discussions about Dutch achievements in the then Dutch Indies. At some point it turned nasty and somebody made the statement that Western civilization was superior to any other and the Indonesians should be thankful for being colonized and developed by the Dutch. While my grandmother had a lot of respect for the Netherlands and the Dutch she couldn’t just sit there and do nothing against this display of racism. This person was welcomed as a honored guest in our simple brick household (which was lacking architecture btw) and he took this opportunity to offend every Indonesian, Indo-European and other non-whites. So that’s how it happened and the best part is that she said in a very civilized, refined, Javanese way in contrast to the yelling and screaming guest.

    I thought it was great because it ended the discussion immediately and the not so welcome guest, who dared to scrutinize Javanese-Indo-European hospitality, felt really ashamed and headed home to his cold, unfriendly Calvinist household.

  5. iamisaid says:

    Mas Mohammed Khafi,

    You said:

    He complains about dictatorial policies in Singapore yet wants to come here and impose his religious beliefs on us!

    and your reference was this entire text from the link that you provided:

    Date : Feb 22, 2007 11:42 PM
    Author : Dawud Farquhar (dawudfarquhar@walla.com)
    Subject : RE: Unrest South

    To ‘Logic Singaporean’ : I have lived in Singapore for 4 years and I know how tightly the PAP regime controls the city state. In such a climate, it becomes inevitable for all the races to get along for the sake of social harmony that is touted as a success.

    There is discrimination and there is nepotism, but this is not apparent to any vistor to the country because it is very subtle. Freedom of expression is discouraged with severe restrictions on academic and political and social thoughts and movements.

    Muslims are kept in line by dictatorial policies that are implemented through MUIS, which in essence is a PAP instigated tool to try and uniform and homogenise the religion.

    Yes Singapore has a good economic and social cohesion record; But this is achieved at the expense of individual rights and freedoms. It is only when you cross the causeway into Malaysia, where you can breathe a sigh of relief and can engage as a pressure-free human being.

    I say:

    That man speaks with his anus.

    You said:

    Dawud, get yourself over to Saudi Arabia and sort them out first, they have had The Prophet’s message longer than anybody, but still seem to manage to be corrupt and nepotistic, not to mention lascivious and hypocritical.

    I say:

    I told him days ago, to get a life and go f*ck a Komodo Dragon.

    You offered him a better itinerary. A pastry chef who once worked at a 5-star Hotel in Saudi, told me that over in Saudi, the men mount donkeys on a pole and fornicate the beast in the desert outskirts.

  6. Lairedion says:

    Dawud,

    Ignore my latest reply to you. This website is a good resource of kejawen

    Now to get back to the essential again:

    Are you:

    a. Indonesian?
    b. of (mixed) Indonesian descent?
    c. Malaysian (Melayu/Indian/Chinese, other bumiputera)?
    d. Arab?
    e. Pakistani?
    f. Adam Gadahn?
    g. another converted Bule?
    h. a CIA spy?
    i. a Transformer, if yes probably an evil Decepticon?
    j. an alien stuck on Earth?

    Multiple answers may be possible.

    Awaiting your answer.

  7. Pakmantri says:

    I think I can answer some of Lairedion’s question. 🙂

    Name: Dawud Farquhar, Dawud = beloved in arabic; Farquhar = dear-man in Scottish, therefore, his father must be at least part Scotsman.

    But I don’t think he is worthy of that name.
    Here is why: Dawud nobody loves him here and Farquhar he is no dear to anybody here either, therefore, the name is inappropriate for him.

    Since he has been calling others names he deserve a new name too, I think Dumbwood F*ckwad is more appropriate for him. 😀

    By the way, Mr. Dumbwood F*ckwad, http://www.walla.com (dawudfarquhar@walla.com) is own by the Israeli now.

    Lucky for you, you are now not only in the watch list of MI5 but you are also in the Mossad watch list. 🙁

  8. Lairedion says:

    Dear Pakmantri,

    Thank you for your reply. Isn’t Dawud the Arabic form of David?

    And yes Scotland it is! Look what I’ve found.

    http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/dtog/farquha2.html

    We can assume that Dawud Farquhar is probably a Bule convert of Scottish descent.

    What now remains to be revealed. Is he bald headed and late in his fifties?

    But I agree Dumbwood F*ckwad is more appropiate. Hehehehe.

  9. iamisaid says:

    DON’T DUMBWOOD F*CKWAD OR ANY FARWADIST EVER THINK PAK MANTRI IS WRONG IN SPEAKING THUS.

    Name: Dawud Farquhar, Dawud = beloved in arabic; Farquhar = dear-man in Scottish, therefore, his father must be at least part Scotsman.

    But I don’t think he is worthy of that name.
    Here is why: Dawud nobody loves him here and Farquhar he is no dear to anybody here either, therefore, the name is inappropriate for him.

    Since he has been calling others names he deserve a new name too, I think Dumbwood F*ckwad is more appropriate for him.

    By the way, Mr. Dumbwood F*ckwad, http://www.walla.com (dawudfarquhar@walla.com) is own by the Israeli now.

    Lucky for you, you are now not only in the watch list of MI5 but you are also in the Mossad watch list.

    PAK MANTRI IS THE MINISTER OF EDUCATION, REPUBLIC OF KOMODO
    https://indonesiamatters.com/1540/letter-to-president/

  10. Lairedion says:

    Dear iamisaid,

    You have a twisted taste of humor and I love it!

  11. iamisaid says:

    Are you:

    a. Indonesian?
    b. of (mixed) Indonesian descent?
    c. Malaysian (Melayu/Indian/Chinese, other bumiputera)?
    d. Arab?
    e. Pakistani?
    f. Adam Gadahn?
    g. another converted Bule?
    h. a CIA spy?
    i. a Transformer, if yes probably an evil Decepticon?
    j. an alien stuck on Earth?

    Multiple answers may be possible.

    ~~~~ drum roll……….

    And the answers is?

    (he is a mutation, formed inside a test tube that was mummified in the deepest carnal heights of Sodom and Gomorrah. and he is borne by the winds of the Arabian deserts to the four corners of the Earth. It its wildest effort to emulate normal man, it caricatured into its best possible as can be seen at:
    https://indonesiamatters.com/1368/learning-islam/cp-5/#comments
    and he is now infamously known as the FACELESS MAN.
    Mothers all over Indonesia use the threath, “ibu kan memanggil FACELESS MAN datang yah!” whenever they check their child into obedience. Such is the case where it has become, that even the whole generation of Indonesian children have come to hate this person.)

    (the revisionist book of genesis – Dawud Farquhar)

    __________________________

    Hello Lairedion,

    Dear iamisaid,

    You have a twisted taste of humor and I love it!

    and I quote from Farquahrism :

    “GREATER LOVE NO MAN HATH THAN TO LAY DOWN HIS TWISTED TASTE OF HUMOR FOR ME”

    (Book of My Wisdom and Exhortations [I:199] – Dawud Farquhar)

    ________________________

    From out of nowhere, Learning Islam has moved into 6th place at the
    Most Commented All time Rankings.

    At such a rapid pace, it will catch up with “Indonesian Girls”.

    Dawud Farquhar will be entranced, enthralled and entwined by the charms of the Indonesian Girls and hopefully be cured.

    1. Indonesian Girls (366)
    2. Expats (355)
    3. Bahai (305)
    4. Sharia Application (244)
    5. Women in Mosques (215)
    6. Learning Islam (199)
    7. Abdullah Aa Gym Gymnastiar (184)
    8. Indonesian Women (176)
    9. Heretic Outreach (165)
    10. Feminism and Islam (160)

  12. Mohammed Khafi says:

    iamisaid,

    Your list:

    a. Indonesian?
    b. of (mixed) Indonesian descent?
    c. Malaysian (Melayu/Indian/Chinese, other bumiputera)?
    d. Arab?
    e. Pakistani?
    f. Adam Gadahn?
    g. another converted Bule?
    h. a CIA spy?
    i. a Transformer, if yes probably an evil Decepticon?
    j. an alien stuck on Earth?

    Is missing one important element, with our newly found knowledge that he is a part of ‘The Israeli Wallawalla’ maybe Dumbwood F*ckwad is actually a Zionist infiltrator, sent in by his masters to defame and besmirch The Noble Al Quran? Please add ‘Zionist Infiltrator’ to the list.

    Peace

  13. iamisaid says:

    YO! Mas M. Khafi,

    Your list:

    a. Indonesian?
    b. of (mixed) Indonesian descent?
    c. Malaysian (Melayu/Indian/Chinese, other bumiputera)?
    d. Arab?
    e. Pakistani?
    f. Adam Gadahn?
    g. another converted Bule?
    h. a CIA spy?
    i. a Transformer, if yes probably an evil Decepticon?
    j. an alien stuck on Earth

    I must NOT in the manner of all F*ckwadists, steal the thunder from others. Mas Khafi, that list originated from Mas Lairedion.

    e is a part of ‘The Israeli Wallawalla’ maybe Dumbwood F*ckwad is actually a Zionist infiltrator, sent in by his masters to defame and besmirch The Noble Al Quran? Please add ‘Zionist Infiltrator’ to the list.

    In the present absence of Mas Lairedion, the list is being revised as instructed to:

    Revised List

    a. Indonesian?
    b. of (mixed) Indonesian descent?
    c. Malaysian (Melayu/Indian/Chinese, other bumiputera)?
    d. Arab?
    e. Pakistani?
    f. Adam Gadahn?
    g. another converted Bule?
    h. a CIA spy?
    i. a Transformer, if yes probably an evil Decepticon?
    j. an alien stuck on Earth?
    k. Israeli wallawalla
    l. Zionist Infiltrator
    m. Dumbwood F*ckwad (gay descendant of Prof. Albus Dumb-ledore of Harry Potter)
    n. Mutated Test tube being (an offspring of Sodom and Gommorah)

    Oh My F*ckwaddy waddy! he is the most dumbcorated personality of all times!

  14. Lairedion says:

    Dear iamisaid,

    Thank you for representing me while I was out for lunch.

    Dear Mas Khafi, you are free to add some more elements to the revised list. That counts for others as well, except the subject of this particular list.

    LOL Israeli wallawalla, I like that one!

  15. dawud farquhar says:

    Lairedion writes:

    >> Are you saying here that kejawen has 100% nothing to with Islam?

    Not at all, I previously mentioned that were a cultural norm conformed with Islamic teachings, it was not over-ruled when Islam came; rather in many instances those values and beliefs were reinforced.

    The problem that I found in S.E. Asia amongst the Malays for example is that religion has become synonymous with one’s culture and race which is a misnomer and illogic. Things are changing though and the proverb of “Biar mati anak, jangan mati adat” is fast becoming history with the advent of easily accessible knowledge and scholars who are trustworthy.

    Culture is defined as “People’s complete way of life. It consists of all the ideas, objects and ways of doing things created by the group. Culture includes beliefs, customs, language and traditions.” by World Book Encyclopaedia but the word “culture” has many meanings. In Arabic it is called “thaqafah” and is defined as patterns of behavior and thinking that people living in social groups learn, create, and share. Culture distinguishes one human group from others and it also distinguishes humans from other animals. A people’s culture includes their beliefs, rules of behavior, language, rituals, art, technology, styles of dress, ways of producing and cooking food, political and economic systems etc.

    Islam however has a distinct culture. The culture in Islam is not Arabic or Eastern or Middle Eastern. It is also not monolithic and thus has varieties and a rich diversity. There are elements in Islamic culture that are constant and that are universally accepted by all Muslims; but there are also elements in Islamic culture that are diverse and different from country to country and people to people. The universals are based on the Qur’an and Sunnah while the variables are based on local customs (lit. a’raf and ‘adat) of various people. Thus there is an Arab Islamic culture, Indo-Pakistani Islamic culture, African Islamic culture, Chinese Islamic culture and so there can be an American or Western Islamic culture.

    Wherever we live we should develop our distinct Islamic culture and we should collaborate and interact with people of diverse cultures. Our culture is based on the Qur’an and Sunnah as well as on great human experience and learning. We have benefited from the knowledge of all people and we should be open to all knowledge in order to keep our culture strong and dynamic. However, we should always keep in mind some basic features and characteristics of our Islamic culture. Wherever we live we should not forget these features. These features are constant and no Islamic culture can be without these features. Some characteristics of Islamic culture are:

    1. God-centered or theocentric: First of all our culture is God-centered. We uphold strict Tawhid (monotheism). We believe in divine guidance that came to us through God’s many prophets and messengers and finally through the Last Prophet Muhammad – peace be upon them all. We believe in life after death and the Day of Judgment. We emphasize worship and devotion: prayers, fasting, Zakat and Hajj. We also uphold that Allah has allowed us certain things and has forbidden us certain things. We emphasize the Halal and avoid the Haram.

    2. Egalitarian, tolerant and fraternal: Secondly our Islamic culture emphasises that all people are equal. We do not accept any color bias or racialism. We believe in the worth and value of all human beings and all creation of God. We believe in the freedom of religion and accept no compulsion in matters of religion. Our culture is tolerant of people of all faiths, especially the People of the Book. We believe that all Muslims are brothers and sisters. The sense of brotherhood in faith must be very strong among Muslims, regardless of the geographic boundaries or changing political or economic conditions. We also must keep good relations with all human beings, especially our neighbors.

    3. Dignifying and moralistic: Our culture places great emphasis on the dignity of human beings and their morality. We emphasize truthfulness, honesty, modesty (Haya’), cleanliness or Taharah. We are against extravagance, show off, or extremism. Our Islamic culture teaches self-confidence and self-reliance. It emphasizes charity and generosity. Our culture is family-oriented with great emphasis on good spousal relations, good care of children, extended families, love and respect for the elders. We abhor adultery, fornication, homosexuality, gambling, or use of intoxicants. Wherever we live at any time and among any people we must uphold these values. We cannot be true Muslims if our culture compromises on these principles.

    4. Dynamic, progressive, world affirming and not world-denying or ascetic: Our culture emphasises struggle, change, social justice, removal of oppression and evil. Our culture encourages learning, education, seeking of knowledge. Our Islamic culture makes no bifurcation between the religious and secular education. We believe that all knowledge is important. We must emphasise open mindedness and willingness to accept the wisdom from any source. Islamic culture promotes good art, architecture, aesthetics, health, healthy environment and clean entertainment.

    5. Non-exclusivist but Da’wah-oriented and optimistic: Finally our Islamic culture emphasises promoting good things with wisdom and patience and forbidding vice. Ours is not a dominating or colonising culture, but it is also not an exclusivist and isolationist culture. We believe in inviting all people to Islam without coercion. Our culture teaches to listen and dialogue with others. We believe that human nature is good and if people are given chance to know and learn Islam as it is, they will find it satisfying and fulfilling. We strongly believe that the truth will prevail and falsehood will vanish. Our culture emphasizes patience and reminds us that we should keep working in a steadfast manner and put our total trust in our Creator, Allah the Lord and Sustainer of the worlds.

    Whatever features of Islamic culture I have mentioned are based on the authentic and clear sources of our religion. Most of us believe in these features and we should always emphasise these values of our religious culture and wherever we may have shortcomings we should try to remove them.

  16. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Be civilise, man. There is no need for swearing. This creep, Dawud, is an ex-Muslim trying to cause discord among our Indonesian ummah. I have finished reading the first 5 links he provided and they contradicted each other; this conclusively exposed him as an ex-Muslim or a Jew conspirator.

  17. dawud farquhar says:

    khafir writes;

    >> which were collected some 200 years after the Prophet died.

    This is one of the most fantastic claims of anti-hadeeth infidels and these have been thrashed many a times. If you have the sincerity to learn and rid yourself of your self-inflicted ignorance, then this is a very good audio series to start from:

    http://audioislam.com/?subcategory=Hadith

    More to follow on this later, but for now, lets have a look at the Necessity of Referring to Qur’an and Sunnah. It is necessary to refer all matters of disagreement between Muslims to Allah and His Messenger, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam. This is important for the Muslim to know and implement because it indicates the complete submission to Allah without which one would not be a Muslim.

    It is necessary to refer all matters of disagreement between Muslims to Allah and His Messenger, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam. This is important for the Muslim to know and implement because it indicates the complete submission to Allah without which one would not be a Muslim.

    Allah says, “If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end” [4:59] also, He says, “And whatever you disagree upon, its decision is with Allah” [42:10]

    Based on these verses, scholars have agreed that referring to Allah means referring to His Book, and referring to the Messenger (S) means referring to him in person when alive, to his Sunnah after his death.

    The first verse of surah an-Nisaa (surah 4), is also proof that the Shari’ah has been perfected and completed and it covers everything that the believers may disagree upon concerning their religion, from the smallest to the greatest, whether hidden or evident. And if there were not a clear solution to their disagreement in Allah’s Book and His Messenger’s Sunnah, or if they were not enough for that, then He would not have ordered us referral to them.

    Shari’ah is the Judge and is not to be judged: This is its power and its role. This means that the Shari’ah rules and judges whether people’s sayings and doings are correct or not. It judges between them when in conflict and disagreement. It confirms the right and abolishes the falsehood. This fact sometimes is violated through some wrong practices:

    Fanaticism: The fanatics in the different Madhahib, schools of thought, judge the Qur’an and Sunnah by what their Imam say. For example, Abul Hassan al-Karkhy, a prominent Hanafi Imam, said, “Every verse ‘in the Qur’an’ that differs with our Madhhab’s understanding is either wrongly interpreted or abrogated, and the same applies to every hadeeth as well.” Audhubillah.

    Democracy: Today, one of the ugly examples of people taking the Divine Shari’ah into their own hands, is the one related to the so-called democracy by taking people’s opinion, directly or through their parliament, about implementing the Islamic Laws. The essence of this is subjugating the implementation of the Creator’s Shari’ah to the will of His creatures or rendering it to a mere choice like any human-set constitution or laws. This is total and clear disbelief, Kufr.

    In explaining the Islamic Aqeedah, Imam at-Tahawi said, concerning the one who rules with other than Allah’s rule, “If he thought that ruling in accordance with what Allah has descended is not mandatory and that he has a choice in it, or he belittled it, while certain that it is Allah’s judgement, then he has committed Kufr, disbelief.” No one from this Ummah is faultless except the Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam. And so Allah ordered us, when in conflict, to refer to Him and to His Messenger, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, and not to refer to anyone else’s opinion or saying or laws. Hence it is understood that there can be fault in anyone’s sayings except the sayings of Allah and His Messenger, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam. This also indicates that the claim of some sects that their Imams are faultless is baseless.

    Asserting this principle, Imam Malik said, “Any one’s sayings may be corrected except those of the Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam.” And similar statements were quoted from Abu Hanifa, Ahmed, Shafi’ee and others although their exact words may differ a little. Allah says, “Had it been from other than Allah, much discrepancy would have been found.” [4:82]

    The referral to the Qur’an and the Sunnah has to be done by those who qualify for it, the scholars, Allah says, “If you do not know, ask of those who possess the knowledge (of the Message).” [16:43]

    I know this might be a little too heavy for you to grasp, but try. I have not even begun addressing your illogic and straight out lies.

  18. iamisaid says:

    Mas Aluang A. Bayang said:

    Be civilise, man. There is no need for swearing. This creep, Dawud, is an ex-Muslim trying to cause discord among our Indonesian ummah. I have finished reading the first 5 links he provided and they contradicted each other; this conclusively exposed him as an ex-Muslim or a Jew conspirator.

    What you declare confirms what I have summed up several times at this blog. It does not come from me being in any credible position to discuss Islam. I admitted earlier on that I am not qualified to do so.

    I came to a similar conclusion of his duplicity from the manner in which he behaved at this blog as well as after having studied his mindset from a few comments that he posted at other blogs.

  19. dawud farquhar says:

    Aluang kejaweni writes:

    >> This is subjective by narrow minded muslims who only read Islamic history.

    There is no ‘Islamic history’ as such without inter-twined world history and its funny why you take offence and show your intolerance at every word and phrase that you cannot fathom.

    >> once wealthy, powerful and influential status were erased overnight.

    Correct, indeed after they moved away from their proclaimed faith and began to clamour after the luxuries of this life and flung the teachings of Islam behind their backs, they realised the wrath of their Creator. The cause of the weakness of the Muslims is due to their having left the clear and pure religion of Islaam. When you leave it, you leave eveything that gives you success and brings only misery and occupation and destruction.

    “Verily, God does not change men’s condition unless they change their inner selves; and when God wills people to suffer evil in consequence of their own evil deeds, there is none who could avert it for they have none who could protect them from Him.” [trans of 13:11]

    “And when We cause mankind to taste of mercy, they rejoice therein, but when some evil afflicts them because of (evil deeds and sins) that their (own) hands have sent forth, lo! They are in despair!” [trans of 30:36]

    If you really are interested in knowing the reasons and the causes for victory and defeat, you can start here:

    http://www.lightuponlight.com/islam/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=218

    >> You still refuse to unveil your ethnic identity and craftily avoided that question altogether. Why, may I ask.

    Ethnicity or heritage has nothing to do with one’s faith and acceptance of truth or rejection of falsehood. Let’s stick to the topics at hand and not divert from the issues…

    _

    iamisaid, as you and your like-minded bigots continue to throw vile language around and show your true colours, let me return to the topic at hand and explain a little about Islamic manners that a non-Muslim Islamophobe like you might benefit from:

    http://www.isna.net/services/library/khutbahs/MoralsandMannersinIslam.html

    In this section we will cover a few points that will help you find your way in Islam and in mixing with the Muslim community:

    http://www.newmuslimsproject.net/islam/adhab/adhab.html

    p.s. After I embraced Islam, I took the name of Dawud over my former name Peter. Hope this helps :^)

  20. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    @ dawud farquhar

    A True Muslim do not reinterpret the sunnah. Although Javanese Islam is an infusion of local tradition, the quran and authentic hadiths were not re-interpreted. We simply do not follow what we thought were morally unfit for our society. On the other hand, you have done that to intentionally benefit the non-Muslims. You’re further refusing to reveal your ethnic identity confirms what I was suspecting all along; and your Israel email web you inadvertently gave out exposed you are either a Jew or an ex-Muslim imposter.

    As a non-Muslim , you are not fit to question our authority on Islam.

    Wasalam.

  21. Lairedion says:

    This comes as no surprise. Dawud Farquhar is a fraud.

  22. Mohammed Khafi says:

    Deadwood said

    :>> which were collected some 200 years after the Prophet died.

    This is one of the most fantastic claims of anti-hadeeth infidels and these have been thrashed many a times. If you have the sincerity to learn and rid yourself of your self-inflicted ignorance, then this is a very good audio series to start from:

    From History of Hadith:

    It has been documneted in Muslim, Ahmed and other sources of Hadith that Muhammad had prohibited the writing of his hadith. The historical evidence supports this fact, since the words and actions (Hadith & Sunna) attributed to the Prophet did not appear until the second century after his death.

    The Quran has prophesied the fabrication of Hadith and Sunna by the Prophet’s enemies:

    “We have permitted the enemies of every prophet human and jinn devils to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.” 6:112

    The Quran teaches us that it was God’s will to permit the invention of Hadith and Sunna to serve as criteria for exposing those who believe only with their lips, not in their hearts. Those who are attracted to Hadith and Sunna are proven to be false believers:

    “This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions.” 6:113

    Immediately after these Quranic words God commands us to follow the Quran alone, which God describes as “fully detailed” as the ONLY source of law:

    “Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?” 6:114

    HADITH CONTRADICTIONS

    In the first hadith it is reported that the prophet said to his people shortly before his death:

    “I have left you the Quran and my sunna”

    Yet in another hadith the prophet commands his people quite the opposite:

    “Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it” (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171…..also Sahih Moslim )

    For another couple of pages of hadith contradictions look here: Why the prophet Muhammad is innocent of the fabricated hadith that fills the hadith books

    HADITH MYTH

    “Do not accept anything that you have no knowledge of. Surely the hearing, the sight and the mind you are responsible for.” 17:36

    The Hadith Myth

    Deadwood said:

    The referral to the Qur’an and the Sunnah has to be done by those who qualify for it, the scholars, Allah says, “If you do not know, ask of those who possess the knowledge (of the Message).” [16:43]

    The full verse is “We sent not any before thee, except men to whom We revealed: ‘Question the people of the Remembrance, if it should be that you do not know –” 16:43

    This is Allah addressing The Prophet, and the remembrancers that The Prophet is being asked to question about the past messengers, were the People of the Book, Torah and Injeel. This destroys what you said earlier about Al Quran superceding the previous revelations if The messenger is being asked to refer to them for knowledge.

    The next verse continues:

    with the clear signs, and the Psalms; and We have sent down to thee the Remembrance that thou mayest make clear to mankind what was sent down to them; and so haply they will reflect. 16:44

    Clearly Allah is saying that AL Quran is a reminder and a clarification of what he had sent before.

    Talk about illogic and straight out lies! Even with the help of Iblis you will not get the better of Allah and Al Quran.

    As Nabi Isa said in Matthew 4:10 “Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.”

  23. dawud farquhar says:

    iamisaid Says:

    >> GLOBAL POLITICAL DISSIDENT

    Islam does not recognise dissent without an Islamic state nor against Muslim authorities who hold the reigns of power. Since there is no Islamic state and most of the Muslim lands are ineffective and inconsequential, it become even more paramount to unite Muslim ranks and to weed out the extremists and to purify the Islamic propagation programme.

    The khawarij’ite ideogy (of which bin ladin is a proponent of) is equally disasterous to Muslims as the heresies of people and groups like hadeeth-deniers and all those who claim adherence to Islam yet their beliefs and actions prove otherwise.

    Takfeer and khurooj are ideologues that need to be redressed and Muslims made aware of their detrimental affects on our global standing. Wow, iamisaid, you are lucky to be getting this information from me because I never knew you would turn this board into a personal vendetta and a circus with your ignorance and subject hopping.

    p.s. walla is a a freebie email site, just because it is hosted in Israel is a non-issue. In fact it shows you how we measure ordinary Israelis and Zionists distinctly.

  24. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Thank heaps iamisaid,

    It confirm this creep is a Jew posing as Muslim. The links he gave are contradictory.

    All authentic hadiths agreed that Aisha was married at 6 and deflowered at 9.

    Here are a list of his contradictions:

    – Aisha was infact 14; and those authentic hadiths were wrong.
    Fact is that no True Muslim will re-interpret the hadiths.

    – Aisha though 6 years old was happily married to our prophet (pbuh) at 53 years old. The marriage was exceeding happy. No one is complaining. Here he forget about the 1st link saying Aisha was age 14.
    But the question remains “Who is complaining?”

    – The marriage between a 6 years old child and our prophet (pbuh) was blessed by Allah swt. You should not question Allah’s order.
    The question remains “Who is questioning?”

    – The prophet is not a pedophile. The proof was that He (pbuh) married Aisha at 6 and took 3 years to consumate the marriage.
    Dawud’s reasoning intentionally incriminate Islam more.

    – The prophet is not a pedophile. The proof was that He (pbuh) married several mature aged women, and 6 years old Aisha was a one-off. A one-off should not be classified as Pedophile.
    Dawud’s reasoning once again incriminate Islam more.

    – Puberty = Maturity = Marriage. Some girls at age 12 or 13 started puberty, so Aisha was ripe to be married at age 6. No True Muslim is bothered about the young age of Aisha.
    Dawud make it as though Muslims are ashamed of Aisha’s young age.

    – The marriage was to foster tribal tie.
    Here his knowledge of Islam is limited. Aisha’s father belonged to the same tribe as our prophet (pbuh).
    Poor attempt to discredit Islam.

    The marriage of an elderly (senescent) not, of course, an old (senile) man to a quite young girl, is often very successful and harmonious. The bride is immediately introduced and accustomed to moderate sexual intercourse.
    Enough proof that Dawud is belittling Islam.

    Dawud, your heavy handed anti-Islamic attack is not needed here. What exposed your dirty intent was that Javanese Islam accepted the correct hadiths interpretation that Aisha was 6 years old when married to our prophet (pbuh). Some verses although we acknowledge, we don’t follow it through just as Death for Apostasy. Good try but we Javanese Muslims are too smart for you.

  25. Mohammed Khafi says:

    Another gem from the Keyboard of Deadwood:

    There is freedom of religion in Indonesia, however, when someone speaks or acts in the name of Islam, it is the right of every Muslim to judge and punish those who lie and fabricate and slander.

    Do not confuse the freedom to worship with the freedom to disparage Islam (and then claim to be a proponent of it). This will not be tolerated and no Muslim would accept if the established and authentic teachings of Islam are polluted. DAWUD FARQUHAR London

    From Jakarta Post

    Deadwood said:

    Allah says, “If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end” [4:59]

    I repeat, The Prophet is dead. The only divinely inspired and protected record of him is Al Quran, your sunnah and hadith are neither divinely inspired nor protected.

    Just read the next verse after the one you quoted for confirmation of this:

    ART THOU NOT aware of those who claim that they believe in what has been bestowed from on high upon thee, [O Prophet,] as well as in what was bestowed from on high before thee, [and yet] are willing to defer to the rule of the powers of evil – although they were bidden to deny it, seeing that Satan but wants to lead them far astray? 4:60

    _______________________________

    Deadwood on democracy:

    Democracy: Today, one of the ugly examples of people taking the Divine Shari’ah into their own hands, is the one related to the so-called democracy by taking people’s opinion, directly or through their parliament, about implementing the Islamic Laws. The essence of this is subjugating the implementation of the Creator’s Shari’ah to the will of His creatures or rendering it to a mere choice like any human-set constitution or laws. This is total and clear disbelief, Kufr.

    Firstly The Prophet Himself was urged to consult with the people:

    Consult with them upon the conduct of affairs. 3:159

    And whose rule is based upon consultation (Shura) among themselves. 42:38

    This consultation (Shura) is to be totally in the public record and not secret. 58:10

    Quran & Democracy

    You also said Creators’s Shari’ah. Since when has Shari’ah been Divine? It is a manmade fabrication, It is not mentioned anywhere in Al Quran, and in many places is actually contradictory to Allah’s Words in Al Quran.

  26. dawud farquhar says:

    -khafir, your cut and paste nonesense from anti-hadeeth infidel sites is laughable to say the least. With sentational headings like ‘CONTRADICTIONS’ actually prove the opposite what your crusade is set out to achieve. The science of isnad (chain of nattations) is a proven science through which I can easily distinguish weak or fabricated hadeeth with those that can be traced right back to the Prophet.

    Again go back and start from the basics: http://audioislam.com/?subcategory=Hadith – Try better next time. And if you can’t be bothered to read and counter facts with facts and evidence with evidence, then you have a more fundamental issue with impotency that you need to overcome before returning with your regurgitated palaver.

    There really is no point discussing this topic with you because you bring no valid arguments to the contrary. Learn what the usool of hadeeth is and then maybe we can continue. Status of the Sunnah is as clear as a cloudless sky:

    http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=103
    http://www.allaahuakbar.net/mutazalites/index.htm
    forums.almaghrib.org/showthread.php?t=10270

    Waiting patiently for your next set of blunders… p.s. the Sunnah does not die as the person who leaves it. It is forever protected just as the Qur’an is.

    “We have without doubt, send down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).” [trans of 15:9] – This ayah specifies the ‘Messenge’ as dhikr in the original Arabic. Dhikr has been explained to mean every aspect of Islamic teaching is preserved either within the Qur’an or through the actions and sayings of the Messenger. Because you are ignorant of Arabic and because you are not a Muslims, it is therefore not surprising that you are making very simple mistakes in your logic of understanding the Quran or any aspect of Islam.

    ________________________

    Khafir writes:

    >> Firstly The Prophet Himself was urged to consult with the people:

    Really? How do you know when you don’t believe in the Sunnah and hadeeth!? LOL !!

    The truth is that there are many established narrations of the Messenger (S) where he laid thefoundations for future Islamic governments and how the leadership would consult with those group of people from amongst the populas that are pious and wise. The Islamic shurah in fact is grass-root democracy, the likes of which the region had never seen. So when we say that democracy is against Islam, we are talking about the capitalist democracy that the West practises. In Islam is neither necessary nor recommended to have every citizen of an Islamic state to ‘vote’ because there is no 2-party system is Islamic governance. Representatives of regions and localities and tribes are asked to make allegiance and any greviences are looked into individually.

    In the first Islamic state in Madinah, the major Sahabah were automatically recognised as superior that others because of their status in the eyes of Islam and the Messenger and as the consequtive khalifates and then kingdoms evolved, they moved away from shurah and began to practise nepotism and became dictators in the real sense of the world, which exists to this day.

    If you are interested in Islamic governance, then I wouls suggest a starting point to be ‘Al-Ahkam As-Sultaniyyah’ by al Mawardi.

    >> Consult with them upon the conduct of affairs. 3:159

    The reason for the revelation of this ayah has a specific context as does the whole Qur’an. The specific context is based on the time and issues of the people of the era and then (true to the miraculous nature of the Qur’an), it become applicable in the general sense for all people and for all times (no matter how much people like Aluang may want to reinterpret Islam’s message and teachings to confirm with his ways).

    Stop cutting and pasting from submission.org – those nutters have been more than refuted for their perwavisi ideology :^)

    >> Since when has Shari’ah been Divine?

    Well according to your Islamophobes at submission, they take an orwellian stance on the whole issue of what constitutes as legislative sources. They are whitewashed as you.

  27. Lairedion says:

    Peter the Jew is on fire. I hope the storage capacity of IM’s server is enough to save the man’s extensive copy and paste actions.

  28. Dawud Farquhar says:

    Aluang kejaweni writes:

    >> A True Muslim do not reinterpret the sunnah.

    Correct again, they do not ‘reinterpret’ anything because what has come down to us has already been put into its proper context. So-called ‘moderates’ and ‘liberals’ are the ones that are either reinterpreting Islamic sources or rejecting them and sweeping them under the carpet like out khafir here. What you think is that simply by discrediting me personally, you will be able to discredit the facts and evidences that I provide, lol. This is actually a typical Zionist trait that would happily plant misinformation simply because they (like you) are intellectually retarded to do anything about it with substance.

    >> Although Javanese Islam is an infusion of local tradition, the quran and authentic hadiths were not re-interpreted.

    Firstly, kejawen does not explain Islam, it is Islam that explains the validity of kejaweni concepts that are alien to Islam and its Message. Secondly, interpretation of the Qur’an into practicle means

    >> It confirm this creep is a Jew posing as Muslim. The links he gave are contradictory.

    Come one kejaweni, you can do better than this. If you think a non-Muslim Islamophobe like you can wish me away simply because you are too stupid to counter the facts and think your comments will stick only because you say so, you have another thing coming. Your wanton desire to distort that which you do not comprehend on this board is open; That you began as some sort of a do-gooder promoting tolerance, it transpires that you are nothing but a trouble-making weasle.

    The reason why the children of Israel (not necessarily the same thing as modern day Ashkenazai or sephardic Jews) are cursed in surah Fatihah because they had the knowledge and they had the truth, yet they rejected it due to their pride and they rejected the final Messenger because of racism as they were waiting for a Messiah to be from the Jews. They rejected Christ (pbuh) as well since he did not confirm to their warped logic. Very much like how you are rejecting Islam because you have no interest to study it nor any interest to research it.

    ____________________

    Lairedion writes:

    >> Peter the Jew is on fire.

    Come one L, you know you can do better than that. your inability to engage in a civil discussion should not lead you to hold contempt for the Jews (who were ebtw thnically cleansed by your continent). Muslims dislike the Zionists for religious and political reasons, but you should not have any of those concerns should you?

    Please act your age and not your shoe size. If you have run out of steam and want to vent your frustration through immature remarks, then just call it quits and move on. Otherwise, I’ll expect more substance from you in the future.

    >> I hope the storage capacity of IM’s server is enough to save the man’s extensive copy and paste actions.

    If I wanted to, I could gather all my members to visit this god-forsaken site and start posting, but I am neither pathetic nor desperate like iamisaid and he’s numb-skull henchmen to tip toe through heavy-weight subjects and keep jumping around withot seeking closure on what they start.

    Funny how when I defend orthodox Islam and write the standard stuff as you would find amongst the vast majority of Muslims, I am called a jew and yet non-Muslims like you and Aluang and khafir and iamisaid (should actually read ‘i am sad’ lol) want tolerance for their extremist and anti-Islam views? I like this tipsy turvy board where the fring loony minority are given credence over the majority :^) I thought it was only Americans who did not understand irony, seems like the Dutch are following suit”¦

  29. iamisaid says:

    APOLOGIA

    Before I take leave from this forum, I would like to part with this post.

    It has been a protracted discussion. At the outset, I joined with mirthful posts with the hope that the ongoing discussions would ease up. It did not and by now you would know the reasons for it.

    I was more and more convinced of the adversary’s intractability by the contempt that the adversary showed towards Muslims. Contempt towards proffered examples of Muslims whom I know that practise their Faith as well as the contempt that was shown towards others Muslims who were in discussion. I became wary of the intentions of the adversary.

    It was indeed a strange encounter especially gauging from the recent discoveries about the adversary.

    About being abusive. Yes, I did tell the adversary to get a life and go f*ck a Komodo dragon. I am not that daft. I knew that he would jump on that and accuse that it is abusive. Is it not also abusive to be ridiculing the Faith of others?

    Let me put it this way. If you were tell me to do something that is not feasible, how could I consider that to be abusive? I may consider it stupid but certainly not abusive. Now, if someone said to me that my mother is so fat that when she jumps she gets stuck in the ground or as the Chinese here are fond of saying, “I’m going to screw your mother’s pussy”, that is abusive. Schoolgirls even tell each other to go fly kites which is the equivalent of F.O. and they laugh it off. Over at this side of the world, people tell each other to go and screw spiders. I just changed it from spiders to a Komodo dragon. What’s the beef?

    You know as the discussion progressed, almost everything that the adversary posted appeared as a huge black spot on my computer screen. I cannot explain that phenomena. That is how my vision treated 99 percent of whatever the adversary posted.

    Could that be considered that I was not being fair in the discussion? Excuse me, I shall dodge that question as I have ably learned that from the adversary and ask the reader this question instead; do you consider that it is fair when the adversary turns a blind eye repeatedly to what is proffered impartially for discussion and chooses to answer what does not appear as a black spot on his computer screen?

    Fortunately, I was brought up by this kind of doctrine.

    Christian Axiom 1: “Love thy enemies.” (Matthew 5:38)

    That is exactly what I was doing. I gave the adversary all the attention. It could actually make a man’s wife to get jealous.

    Christian Axiom 2: “Do to others what you would have them do to you” (Matthew 7:12)

    Yes, as all witnessed, I enjoyed what the adversary was doing. In turn I helped the adversary along.

    Christian Axiom 3: “Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also” (Luke 6:29)

    True. Do not jump too fast to conclude. It never said that I am forbidden to strike back after offering the second cheek. I have only two cheeks and none more to offer.

    Farewell.

  30. Dragonwall says:

    Hi Iamisaid, sorry to hear that you are leaving so soon. One thing I gather so far from all those that spoke so highly of the religion Islam that many held in high esteem with much hypocracy on the person to the belief.

    Many was said, defended on the religion and also othere were ebing lauded with abuse without remorse.

    Many had throw words like fatwa in their terminology is an order but in harsh words is actually a contract to kill. Many also express their contempt, which in many a time contradict on their own.

    Anyway goodluck to you and good luck to me (because numerous of my postings were deleted so I guess if I am going to pursue what I had intended to I shall go solo)

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