Learning Islam
Aug 7th, 2007, in News, by PatungIndonesian Muslims still have some way to go in learning Islam.
The minister of religion, Maftuh Basyuni said on 4th August that Islam did not teach violence or radicalism, and radicalism could not be allowed to flourish Indonesia because most people were opposed to it and it had no basis in the Quran. He advised people to not only read the Quran a lot but to learn it and understand it.
Maftuh Basyuni, jealous obsession.
Muslims must also give room for people of other religions, he said, because in the Quran it was written: “for you your religion, for me my religion”.
He was speaking in Ciawi, West Java, after laying the foundation stone for a printing press building that will be the first centre of Quran printing production in Indonesia, costing 26 billion rupiah to build and expected to produce about one million copies by the end of 2007.
My obsession is that within two years it will be printing five million copies a year.
He admitted to being jealous that Indonesia was the biggest centre of Bible production in south-east Asia, and hoped that the press could produce cheap, pocked-sized Qurans so that people could learn Islam anywhere. antara
Meanwhile in Jakarta former president Megawati Soekarnoputri, not ordinarily known as an authority on religion, spoke on a similar theme after appointing the first office-bearers of the PDI-P’s new Muslim political wing Baitul Muslimin Indonesia (Bamusi, BMI).
Megawati Soekarnoputri, there’s more to life than shopping.
She said it was peculiar now that Indonesia had entered an era of democracy and respect of human rights that some people went about committing violence in the name of Islam. The founding fathers in 1945 knew that sectarian conflicts were dangerous because they weakened the country and allowed colonialists a foot in the door. The violence that had occurred in Central Sulawesi, the Moluccas, and West Kalimantan should serve as motivation for Indonesian Muslims to learn what Islam was really about, she said. mediaindo
306 Comments on “Learning Islam”
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
@ dawud farquhar
I don’t think you are even married. Probably a red herring to mask your real intention, after I asked you the question below,
Are you a Single White Male Balding in your late 50s, and a recent convert?
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iamisaid says:
In Gratitude to Dawud Farquhar
In the order of the Cosmos, you have the unenviable task to play the role of the devil’s advocate. Your contribution serves to separate the real truth from your falsehood for all mankind. Regrettably, you will go un-rewarded just like how you have to forebear the persecution at IM.
You must believe that your quest has contributed immensely and in mysterious ways for those who are in doubt and who may die in despair to their eternal damnation should the truth fail to reach them before their Day of Judgement. You must continue to spread your falsehood. You have little time with such an onerous responsibility.
Worry not about the ignorant for they are blissful in their state. They will not even know what hit them come their Day of Judgement. In fact they will themselves in heaven by default.
Dale Carnegie knew of your coming and supports you unconditionally when he said,
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain — and most fools do.
Your endurance defies the strength of the gods. In your dedication to your cosmic role, yes, yes, Avante! for if it were not for you, mankind could probably return to the Dark Ages. No, no, don’t you misunderstand that to mean a global energy crunch. You know, Dark Ages.
On those despondent days, you must take comfort in these words from a holy person who said, “Stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn’t misuse it.” Alas! he added a “but” in his saying. which makes the torment endless for you as you go about with your endeavours.
On your good days, you can hurrah yourself the words of Max Ehrmann because he did not include any “but’s” for you.
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.Wait a minute, this same wise man also said,
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others.How you are going to fit all this together or if it ever makes any cosmic sense to you in your next adventure will depend much on your own effort.
Now run like the devil – time’s a-wasting.
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There is only one Islam and it is very much needed in Indonesia to replace their panthiest ideas. Oh yes it is very much needed and there is pretty much nothing you can do to turn the tide of orthodox revivalism. …
There is only one Islam and it is very much needed in China to replace their panthiest ideas. Oh yes it is very much needed and there is pretty much nothing you can do to turn the tide of orthodox revivalism. …
There is only one Islam and it is very much needed in Japan to replace their panthiest ideas. Oh yes it is very much needed and there is pretty much nothing you can do to turn the tide of orthodox revivalism. …
There is only one Islam and it is very much needed in Korea to replace their panthiest ideas. Oh yes it is very much needed and there is pretty much nothing you can do to turn the tide of orthodox revivalism. …
And you do not have the gut to tell us where you come from. Probably you don’t even have a heritage as it was najis and done away with.
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Sputjam says:
Anyone who follows the sunnahs and hadiths, will ultimately end up as a pagan worshipper.
unless it can be proven that hadith and sunnahs is from God, please abandon them.
hadiths and sunnah will lead you astray.This passage posted by Khafi in the koran says it all –
“Believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabeans; whoever believes in God and the last day and does what is right, shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear or regret.” 2:62
There is no need to worship God, for God is free of all wants.
All you have to do is be righteous and do good deeds. this was, in my personal opinion, the messages that was delivered by the prophets.
The prophets did not create the religion of islam, not christianity, nor religions embraced by the jews. these religion came after their demise.you do not require to be in any religion to believe in God and the hereafter.
the messages in the koran is clear. treat your parents honorably, do not kill another soul except for just causes, do not lie and do not cheat, be humble, for God hates the arrogants, do not agress, stay away from lewdness and adultery, even in secret, do not take the orphan’s inheritance, strife for just causes (justice).
Nowhere was there any mention to pray 5 times a day(or even once a day) in the koran.
the fasting ritual and 5 daily prayers cannot be universally applied (for example in space), hence be wary of its practice.
The haj is a pagan ritual, and messages relayed by mohamed was against all form of paganism. So beware.europeans like laredion have long abandoned their religion. And the result is for all of us to see.
God the sustainer, does not need to be worshipped. we need Him,and not the other way around.
So please use your common sense. For religion, any religion, will unltimately drive us away from God, and into the hands of priest and clerics, and turn us into idol worshippers.
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dawud farquhar Says:
iamisaid, instead of using your Khafi ID, be a little more direct :^)
Here, let me help you”¦
The Status of Sunnah in Islam:. A Declaration that it cannot dispense with The Qur’an:
~ clicked on the given link and guess what? It produced this:
Secular Farquharism As Revealed.
Saudi King jeered as controversial visit begins.
King Abdullah II of Saudi Arabia was greeted by jeers and placards as he began his state visit to Britain this afternoon as dozens of demonstrators turned out to protest at his country’s human rights record.
More of this report at:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2771570.eceWe need Saudi oil more than they need us. Sometimes it ‘pays’ to turn a blind eye to facts.
says Dawud Farquhar, London, England
Moral Question:
Can any mother be buried without being desecrated with Secular Farquharism?
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Make no mistake about it, I will be sticking around this board for a long time :^) When Islamophobes and anti-Muslim forces unite, you will see me there as the lone ranger :^) Bring it on kejaweni, lets see some more on your intolerant palaver?
I don’t think he is coming back after his last parting shot.
He reminds me of Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf, the spin doctor who despite Iraq crumbling behind him, still stood defiant. When asked where he had got his information he replied, “authentic sources””many authentic sources”.
Dawud is also confident he had authentic source.
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dawud farquhar says:
On the Necessity of the Sunnah:
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/downloads/quranites3.zip
The Ruling on the Rejecters of the Sunnah Looking at the Rulers of the Scholars of Ahl us- Sunnah:
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/downloads/quranites1.zip
The First Doubt:
Analysing the first of the doubts of the Perweizites and Rejecters, which is that there was no methodology defined by the Prophet (sallAllaahu Ãlayhi wa sallam) for the safeguarding of the Sunnah.
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/downloads/1st.zip
The Second Doubt:
Smashing the second brainless doubt which is that the Messenger (sallAllaahu Ãlayhi wa sallam’s) explanation of the Qur’ân is not required and redundant, since the Qur’ân itself is all comprehensive and has not left anything out.
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/downloads/2nd.zip
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More on the so-called quran only heresy:
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/mutazalites/index.htm
COMPILATION OF AHAADEETH:
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/ahaadeeth/compilation_of_hadeeth.htm
Smashing the Brains of the Perweizite Deceivers (Rejecters of the Sunnah (and thus Islam)):
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/downloads/quranites.zip
On the Necessity of the Sunnah:
http://unitedummah.wordpress.com/2007/12/06/the-necessity-of-referring-to-quran-and-sunnah/
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Mohammed Khafi says:
Brother Dawud,
It is clear that you are capable of linking to others ideological claptrap, but I have a few simple questions for you.
1, Do you believe that Al Quran is the word of Allah?
If Yes,
2, Are you also aware That Allah says in Al Quran, that His Book is Complete, Perfect, Fully Detailed and Easy to Understand?
If Yes,
3, Why do You ignore the words of Allah and search for explanations for something which Your Lord has said is Complete, Perfect, Fully Detailed and also easy to understand?
I know you are not good at answering question, you haven’t answered one so far that has been put to you, but please try and think hard about these ones.
Peace
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For dawud farquhar,
You have no idea what Indonesia had achieved so far. An eye-opener for you:
Brokering peace between Shias and Sunnis. Indonesian brand of Islam with Javanese infusion.
Shia and Sunni respect our brand of Islam. It is time you as a ‘self-proclaimed’ muslim fold back in line. Allah swt is most merciful, oft-forgiving.
Wasalam.
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To: Mohammad Khafi and Aluang A. Bayang,
It would need a psychoanalyst to help explain the behaviour and the mindset of Dawud. I am not attempting to do an analysis as would an expert but these are my observations and therefore my opinions. Hence, for whatever it is worth…..
He distinctly avoids answering questions put to him. There is no doubt about that.
However, he does pick up on statements made (not questions asked) and refutes them with whatever that he has been indoctrinated with prior to and after his purported conversion to Islam.
In giving Dawud the benefit of the doubt, I think he is not prepared with his present knowledge to take on questions larger than whatever he had learned about the Faith that he embraced.
I can draw an analogy of Dawud to the behaviour of my son when he was barely 3 years old. We would be shopping at the Mall. He would run off hastily to the section that sells toys. He would choose a toy and I would tell him that I did not bring along sufficient money. My son would repeat, “But I want” endlessly without putting up any tantrums. At his age, that is just about all that he could communicate. This analogy does not mean that Dawud is infantile. Rather, without my our knowing of how long he has been since he converted to Islam, he would only repeat from what he presently knows.
It is either that or Dawud knows more than what the above explains. And that his unwillingness to hold discussions with impartiality would mean that he has closed his mind to everything contrary to what his religious teacher(s) or religious source(s) is.
The only thing that throws negativity in the discussions that he has thus far held, is the kind of “militancy” and to some degree belligerence that he includes with some of his remarks. For that I do not think he is competent or mature in holding discussions and that this and his past and future experiences might mature his outlook and his ability to understand that for whatever the discussions are worth, it can never be one that is motivated with compelling the other party.
What I just wrote is possibly an overstatement because Dawud could possibly be thinking of the other party in the very same way that I have explained.
That being the case, and if you have noticed it, it has only led him now to submit his 2 posts without addressing to any particular person by address.
As I watched it, he came on very strong over the last two days, sweeping away at random issues that he deemed unfit for further discussions while throwing in as much as time permitted of his knowledge of what Islam means to him. Anything contrary to that was relegated to being unworthy for further discussion.
Unfortunately, I am not at all competent when it relates to the dogma and teachings of the Quran, let alone, the variations between the various sects within Islam. You are most capable in those matters.
This is just how I see it from a layman’s (non-Muslim) involvement over the matter of Dawud Farquhar.
And then, I could be wrong and any assessment of mine herein is not meant to undermine Dawud in his chosen Faith. I was studying his thinking propensity and what exactly he has made himself to be known through the Internet at other posts as well as at IM.
Just my two cents.
Peace Brothers!
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Lairedion says:
europeans like laredion have long abandoned their religion. And the result is for all of us to see.
How should I read this? Forgive me for I am ignorant.
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Hi Lairedion,
How should I read this? Forgive me for I am ignorant.
“europeans like laredion have long abandoned their religion. And the result is for all of us to see.”
Being a so-so Catholic, I think I am able to quote from what I know. I suppose, the answer would be in the manner of:
“Father, forgive him for he knows not what he says”
Having said that Lairedion, I respect that you are an Agnostic. I am on the verge of being one myself too with all the crap that I have lived through with the Catholic Church. But for the Grace of God, I am hanging in there by a fine thread.
Ha ha ha ha ha.
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Hi iamisaid,
Well there are many qualifications when it comes to agnosticism. Strong, mild, apatethic, pragmatic and more. I would like to describe myself as an agnostic theist. I do not claim to know existence of God but I believe in God. There’s the difference between truth and belief. Therefore I dare not to try and convince other people to think likewise since I’m a doubter myself.
Btw Mas Kahfi thanks very much for your comments. It is really a joy to read these and you made me curious to understand more of Islam and the Quran, something my Indonesian Muslim relatives and friends never managed to achieve.
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Dawud Farquhar says:
Aluang kejaweni writes:
>> I don’t think he is coming back after his last parting shot.
Your reverse psychology won’t work here Aluang. Firstly you misrepresent my very first post here and now you are wishing it away :^)
>> And you do not have the gut to tell us where you come from.
Come from? That is not important, where my organisation is going, that is more important. Anyway I have given you enough details about myself so there is no need to divert the topic of this board to unbeneficial info.
>> You have no idea what Indonesia had achieved so far.
I know what it has not yet achieved, slowly but surely it will get there ‘inshaa Allaah.
>> Brokering peace between Shias and Sunnis
Brokering something is not an achievement, it will be the success of such brokering that will count. Where inumerous and tried and failed over the centuries its only novelty value that Jakarta brings to Iraq or elsewhere where sunni-shia strife exists.
>> He reminds me of…
The fact that you can’t write anything meaningful nd have stooped to childish behaviour is a sign of paranoia and moreso intolerance of Islam and your inability to ‘do’ something about it like debate back… Let me bring some sanity into your next response… Almost 2/3 of the Muslims in the world today live Asia. Christian-Muslim relations in Asia are complicated by many contrasting and often contradictory elements. Demographic, political, economic, social and ethnic factors affect the ways in which Christians and Muslims relate, in both positive and negative ways.
Imbalances in relationships may be a contributing factor of tension (and even conflict) but the group that lacks power feels vulnerable and at the mercy of the good will of those in positions of power. Other imbalances arise from access to political power or economic strength and these two things do not always go together (in the case of Malaysia and Indonesia for example). While Christians may feel uneasy because of the political strength of Muslims, Muslims can often have negative feelings toward Christians whom they perceive to be controlling their lives by dominating the economic sphere. We as Muslims should not find this as a source of contention but rather a means of pushing ourselves out of the self-made stagnation.
It is also undeniable that ethnic factors play an important role in religious relations unfortunately. This is particularly true when a group identifies their Islamic or Christian faith as part of their ethnic identity. And as the Islamic presence in Asia progressed from one period to the next, one can discover the particular characteristics of Islam in Asia that laid the bases for distant and proximate roots of Islamic revival in the region.
1. 750-1300 – foreign commercial presence
2. 1300-1600 – Age of Expansion, first Muslim states, sultanates
3. 1600-1945 – Colonial Period
4. 1945-2002 – Independent modern national statesWhen Muslims looked around the world at the beginning of the 19th Century, many asked, “What went wrong?” From having (in previous centuries) the world’s most powerful, advanced, and prosperous states within the khalifates and empires, they had almost everywhere succumbed to the rule of others. A real response and a plausible practicle solution was provided by revivalist movements who admitted that it was because of deviation from the true Islamic path that the Muslims arrived at their low state. Nothing less than a return to the pure, original Islam will permit Muslims to achieve the spiritual, social, economic, military, political glories of the past.
We not only to purify Islam of all anti-Islamic innovations and accretions and novelties that had wrongly been accepted as Islamic in the course of time, but the very ideas of ‘kejawenism’ in Inonesia itself is a distortion of the original intent of the religion. Islam is a ‘program’ for building a human society whose every aspect is to be lived in accordance with the will of God (lit. Muslim). Islam is not simply a set of pious practices, revivalism has political implications for Indonesia. And this I will leave for another day.
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Welcome back Lairedion
Hi iamisaid,
Btw Mas Kahfi thanks very much for your comments. It is really a joy to read these and you made me curious to understand more of Islam and the Quran, something my Indonesian Muslim relatives and friends never managed to achieve.
I most certainly agree with your statement about Mas Kahfi. Reading his posts puts one at great ease and the clarity in what he states is an added joy.
Cheers!
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Dawud Farquhar,
You have met your “Waterloo” at Indonesia Matters.
The result of your charade at “Learning Islam” is on record here. You had your chances and unfortunatley this is the bathos to your proud boast elsewhere that you enjoyed “My Best Refutation” on some matter that I believe also concerned Islam.
The fact here remains that you were given enough time to provide your answers that were put to you. Questions that were pertinent to matters being discussed. You however chose not to answer those questions despite several reminders. This I will have to impute as either being a reflection of your lack of knowledge or it confirms your vindictiveness in not willing to face its consequence.
Your behaviour here over the length of the discourses that were held here at IM’s “Learning Islam” is reminiscent and reeks of what you posted at:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2771570.ece
wherein you said the following:
We need Saudi oil more than they need us. Sometimes it ‘pays’ to turn a blind eye to facts.
As in the manner of your comment at that referred link, it also imputes that it “pays” you to turn a blind eye to facts presented to you. That too would include questions that you blatantly refuse to answer despite several reminders for your answers and an inordinate amount of time that was generously given to you.
As you indicate, you may continue with your circumlocution and to parade your knowledge or the lack of it at Indonesia Matters. However, in as much as you might wish to believe that you may fool some people some of the time, you have must be told now that at Indonesia Matters, it is not possible for you to fool some people all the time.
Speaking for myself, you have indeed lost an opportunity to win my interest in the Faith of Islam because of your attitude and particularly in the manner that you were discussion with Aluang A. Bayang long before I joined in. This is something that you will need to improve on if your intentions are pure and in keeping with the teachings of Islam.
Your discourses at “Learning Islam” adequately puts to rest your incompetence to handle matters larger than what you initially imagined.
This is a closed letter and I do not wish for any reply from you. You have closed my mind on the Faith of Islam with you.
May God enlighten you.
iamisaid
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-iamisaid, the more you suck up to your alter-ego khafir, the more ridiculous you look and I don’t know if I should be responding to your or your God khafir, lol. What is more funny is how a non-Muslim like you is in any way, shape or form competent enough to be speaking about the most basic matters of Islam let alone scriptural approval/disapproval, lol… Try harder and please keep up your freak show – p.s. Waterloo ain’t even started yet :^) You have no reason to be threatened by my presence on this board because you are making my job easy.
>> you have indeed lost an opportunity
I am not here to appease you or cow to you or your Islamophobe buddies’ sentiments. Pretending to be practising a tolerant kejawenism does not ring true for you either. If the whole world unites upon darkness, this would be meaningless unless they had guidance… What you have portrayed is your scant regard for reality and a podge podge of beliefs that leaves even yourself confused as to what you really stand for. The stench of hypocricy and irony is profuse from your end. Our many interactions to come will reveal to you more about yourself than Indonesia.
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Khafir writes:
>> Why do You ignore the words of Allah and search for explanations for something which Your Lord has said is Complete, Perfect, Fully Detailed and also easy to understand?
This is not a question but a statement that you have made which is incorrect (e.g. its like asking “why is your mother in prison?” when she clearly isn’t). When Allaah SWT Himself has laid out clearly the authority of His Messenger is ‘explaining’ His Book to us, then there remains no other way except to submit to His words. Allaah SWT says:
“It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.” (trans of Surah Al-Ahzab, 36)
Once you read this ayaah along with the many others I have already given and understand their meaning in the Arabic language and with the established tafseer of the same sahabah who saw the revelation come down, no one will dare to challenge Allaah except an arrogant fool (who still claims to be a Muslim).
Here is a little more background evidence on the subject matter regarding the so-called ‘quran-only’ fundies who contrary to Quran’ic teachings follow the paths of heretics like the Mutazi’ites and Ghulam Ahmed Pervaiz and the 19ers:
http://sectarianrefutations.blogspot.com/2007/02/refutation-of-group-tolu-e-islam.html
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Dawud Farquhar Says:
January 9th, 2008 at 3:07 am
Aluang kejaweni writes:>> I don’t think he is coming back after his last parting shot.
Your reverse psychology won’t work here Aluang. Firstly you misrepresent my very first post here and now you are wishing it away :^)
Welcome back! Your posts are entertaining and it would be a pity to leave us too soon. Bigotry and assertive attitude are a bad mix, and it seemed you posses both.
You are assuming too much with all the imaginery conspiracy theories cooked up, which make any discussion with you impossible. You do need to expand your comfort zone.Come from? That is not important, where my organisation is going, that is more important. Anyway I have given you enough details about myself so there is no need to divert the topic of this board to unbeneficial info.
It would be nice to know your heritage background and the country you come from. In Indonesia, we call it sopan. There is nothing to be ashamed of. Chinese are proud of their heritage, Iranian would not want to be called anything else other than Persian, Javanese are proud of their Mojopahitan lineage. I am sure the rest of the forummers will proudly tell you their heritage if you asked. Khafi, Sputjam and I are native Indonesian; my ‘sidekick’ iamisaid is Malaysian; Lairedion is Euro/Indo mixed.
I know what it has not yet achieved, slowly but surely it will get there ‘inshaa Allaah.
I bet there is nothing that you do not know.
Brokering something is not an achievement, it will be the success of such brokering that will count. Where inumerous and tried and failed over the centuries its only novelty value that Jakarta brings to Iraq or elsewhere where sunni-shia strife exists.
NU is the largest Islamic organisation in Indonesia, and its integrity is second to none. Many NU muslims have family members of other Islamic sects and different faiths living peacefully. One can apostate from NU without having to look over one’s shoulder. Would the Shias and Sunnis accept the Hezbollah to broker peace for them? As a broker, you need to have a proven track record.
The fact that you can’t write anything meaningful nd have stooped to childish behaviour is a sign of paranoia and moreso intolerance of Islam and your inability to ‘do’ something …
If you are too shy to discuss the young age of Aisha now, we will come back to it some other time.
*The remaining of the paragraphs.*
Ask yourself: China’s golden age started without Islam. Mojopahit’s golden age do not need Islam. If you think Malaysia is your best examplary Islamic state, you do really need to expand your horizon. Malaysia was ‘somewhat’ successful because it has a sizable proportion of Indian and Chinese(40%). These two non-muslim groups contributed to over 95% of the nation’s tax. I would say the best examplary Islamic state was Taliban Afghanistan, the puriest Islamic country ever. Unfortunately America destroyed it. Google search on their former Prime Minister’s comment.
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“Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors.”
(Quran [2:190])Dawud Farquhar personifies the mind of a bigot. A mind that manifests as one who is set on demeaning Muslims. While cunningly portraying himself as someone who has a genuine concern about the differences amongst other Muslims that contradict the dogma that he knows, he then uses that as an excuse to berate the belief of other Muslims and about their practice of the Faith of Islam here at “Learning Islam”.
For all that we have come to know of him, I dare to say that his claim in being a convert to Islam is also questionable. It would not be far fetched to add that in using such a claim he crosses the first hurdle to gain acceptance where there is a Muslim commune on the Internet. After which he then sows his taunts and is critical of each and every Muslim. He extends the same treatment towards any non-Muslim who partakes in his discussions.
May I ask this question: Who exactly is this person, whose pen name is Dawud Farquhar?
All that is known of this person is a claim that he has made known – he is a convert to Islam. Has anyone read of this person other than at the Internet? The Internet being his platform to sow discord and deride others; knowing that the Internet provides anonimity and serves to his advantage. From my other readings elsewhere, he is known hails from England. That is true because I had it verified.
Examples taken from a Search on the Internet reveals that besides Indonesia Matters, he has been at:
a) http://strangersoasis.com/2007/10/30/refutation-pledge-of-mutual-cooperation/
b) http://strangersoasis.com/2007/11/06/my-best-refutation-ever/
c) http://www.thejakartapost.com/yesterdaydetail.asp?fileid=20071103.F07Siraaj Muhammad who owns the Blog ” StrangerOasis” recently left a post at our Blog. Siraaj denies being connected to Dawud. Why may I ask? Siraaj in the manner of a good Muslim did not say more about Dawud. He did not have to. He knows that we are intelligent enough to figure that out by ourselves.
I quote Siraaj’s post:
Siraaj Muhammad Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 10:00 amhttps://indonesiamatters.com/1368/learning-islam/cp-4/#comments
Quick clarification – I was reading my blog stats on wordpress and found a link to this discussion leading into my blog, Strangers Oasis. I am not Dawud Farquhar, although he may have been posting comments on my blog, so please don’t mix the two of us up.
SiraajDawud has been at other secular websites reporting on secular issues.
a) http://www.littlespeck.com/informed/2006/CInformed-060923.htm
b) http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2771570.eceAt those websites Dawud refrained from conducting himself in the manner that we already know of him at Indonesia Matters. Why? Because he knows that at those websites there are no Muslims and his malevolent pursuit to litter his discord would be useless. However, from what he posted at those websites he has revealed the nature of his mindset.
He has an antipathy towards the followers of Islam and that is proven by his incessant accusations and slander towards them.
He offers references to various web links to support whatever he postulates. Any person with plenty of time and filled with a sick obsession is able to acquire a vicarious knowledge of Islam through the Internet. Such a person is able to build a personal library in order to suit his purpose of deceit and instigation against the belief and the practice of Muslims.
Would you not agree that it is uncharacteristic of a true Muslim to be behaving in the manner of Dawud. He claims that he is a Muslim but protractedly taunts other Muslims with wanton abrasion and disregard. His behavior exposes him as a fraud and one who does not have worthy intentions.
Rather than offer him our concern and give him the attention that he craves, it would be to his best interest that we totally ignore him. To do otherwise would only lend more support to his diabolical intentions.
Ironically, Dawud does serve a value-added purpose except that to meddle with him fills the idle hours. Should one desire to think differently and be ensnared by his guile, the effort would be is like water off a duck’s back.
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Dawud,
Your blind acceptance of Sunnah and Hadith are understandable from your point of view, without them your ‘Religion’ falls flat on its face, it has no foundation without those lies and fabrications.
I however do not need them to follow Allah’s Deen, Islam. His Word is sufficient for me.
Say, “Whose testimony is the greatest?” Say, “GOD’s. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside GOD.” Say, “I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry.” 6:19
We did not leave anything out of this book. 6:38
We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe. 7:52
This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD. It confirms all previous messages, and provides a fully detailed scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe. 10:37
In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe. 12:111
Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt. 6:114
The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. 6:115
Before you address me once more as Kafir, just remember what it’s true meaning is; ‘One who hides the truth’. I am trying my best to expose the truth which you and your like are hiding under Hadith and Sunnah, I am trying to show that Islam is a religion of conscience, and of peace, in which there is no compulsion. You however are endeavouring to force your opinions and traditions on others, opinions and traditions which go against the basic teachings of Al Quran.
Just remember this Dawud:
But among people, there are those who invest their time in hadith which is unfounded, so as to lead those without knowledge away from the Path of Allah, making a mockery of it. For such there is shameful punishment in store. 31:6
Peace
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Hi Mohammed Khafi,
Have you read my 13 Question request to you earlier on at this same article?
I hope I did not overdo it. LOL!
If you have the time to help me better understand the framework, I would be most obliged Mas.
Thank you,
____________________
Mas Mohammed Khafi,
Some where at the start of his premiership, the Prime Minister of Malaysia, Abdullah Badawi announced that Muslims in the country should practice Islam Hadhari.
Is this Islam per se and would you know what are is its roots?
Would Islam Hadhari be considered in the strict sense of the word Religion or by some other classification?
Thanks,
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Hi iamisaid,
Please bear with me, I am very busy with work related matters at the moment, I will get around to your questions but it may take me a couple of days to find the time.
Your first question is however quite quick and easy to answer.
The Shia/Sunni schism in Islam was first brought about by political differences as to who should be the successor to The Prophet. I quote from ‘The Heirs of The Prophet Muhammad’:
The Prophet Muhammad, who united the Arabian tribes under the banner of Islam, died in 632 in his sixties without unambiguously naming a successor. His closest kinsman, Ali (his young first cousin and the husband of his daughter Fatima), who, the Shia minority believe, had been designated to succeed him, was passed over three times before becoming caliph (the prophet’s successor) in 656, by which time the leadership of the Arab empire (vastly expanded by the conquests of Palestine, Syria, Egypt and Persia) was in danger of fragmenting. The first three caliphs (acknowledged by the Sunnis but rejected and, until recently, ritually cursed by the Shia) reunited the tribes and drove forward the Arab conquests in a series of stunning military victories over better equipped and organised Byzantine and Persian armies.
The flaw in the triumphant progress of the true Abrahamic faith emerged during the reign of the third caliph, Uthman, a pious believer and early convert to Islam, but also a member by birth of the old Meccan aristocracy who had fought against Muhammad and his message. Despite being personally virtuous, Uthman was unable to resist the demands of his newly converted clansmen, to whom he gave preferential treatment in the spoils and privileges of government. Some of the stresses that gave rise to Islam’s first schism can also be traced to tensions within Muhammad’s extended household “” between Ali and Muhammad’s wife Aisha, the daughter of Abu Bakr, the first caliph (a contemporary of Muhammad, and the only “rightly guided” caliph to have died a natural death). By the time Ali succeeded Uthman (after the latter’s assassination by mutinous troops) as the fourth and last of the “rightly guided” caliphs, the stage had been set for establishment of the Umayyad dynasty in Damascus under Uthman’s kinsman, the brilliant and wily Muawiya.
Ali’s rule was never uncontested: his principled disdain for the dirty business of politics alienated some of his supporters (who would leave his camp to form a separate sect). After four conflict-ridden years, he died a violent and brutal death, as did his son Husayn, who perished in a heroic but doomed attempt to wrest the caliphate from Muawiya’s son Yazid in 680. Thereafter, the spiritual and secular streams of Islam would divide and merge in complex and sometimes dangerous patterns that continue to this day.
Peace
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Mas M. Khafi,
WOW ! thanks.
After my first reading, it is hugely interesting.
To further understand it, I am generating a time line geneaology based on what you have provided above.
Minta maaf yah, I did not mean to sound pushy. I was afraid you might have missed reading my request. 🙂
In the meantime, Mas I shall digest your first installation and await for the rest as and when you are at ease to work on the answers.
Once again, thank you for rendering your time and assistance towards my better understanding.
Peace !
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khafir writes:
>> Please bear with me, I am very busy with work
You have all the time in the world sir and it might surprise you at we all have work to do. Your cut and paste jobs are much to be desired and its funny how you don’t even know Arabic yet are trying to convince (poorly) how your personal understandings are relevant. Islam does not go by personal thinking – It has established rules and regulations upon the earliest sources.
Once you are able to understand the very basic concept of the legislative authority of the Sunnah, then we can build upon that, until then there is no point taking this any further.
Nothing makes me laugh more than when non-Muslims like you and iamisaid (I think he’s taken a liking to you :^) and kejaweni and others on their board fall over each other to explain other people’s religious texts and teachings to them. If you wanted to become a Shintoist, would you go and ask a Mormon about it? Of course not… Even if you do believe in the Qur’an as a revelation, this means nothing and does not prove one’s Islam unless every aspect of Islamic teachings is accepted, which you clearly cannot accept because of your corrupted ideas of what the Qur’an teaches.
Further claims of the anti-Islam Quranites (how can you call yourself quran’ite when the Qur’an itself disproves of your alient ideas?):
http://www.whyislam.org/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=903&PN=1
http://www.mail-archive.com/islamcity@yahoogroups.com/msg00362.html -
Bapak Dawud makin kurang ajar.
As stated in my first comment this discussion with him is leading to nowhere. We have to accept hatred and bigotry have driven Dawud to lunacy.
The one thing I’m still curious about is his ethnic heritage. C’mon Dawud be a good sport and tell us.
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Dawud,
My comment that I was busy with work was not addressed to you, however there have been many points addressed to you which you have failed to answer. please concentrate your efforts on them.
You said:
Islam does not go by personal thinking –
What does Allah say in Al Quran:
And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning). 17:36
If this is not an invitation for personal thinking and reason, I don’t know what is. This is also a warning for people like yourself Dawud, who blindly follow heresay. We will all be responsible for our own actions come the Day of Reckoning, telling Allah that you blindly accepted what your Clerics and Scholars told you will not be a sufficient excuse to avoid punishment.
If you are unable to address me by my name instead of resorting to insults this will be my last comment for you.
You have actually done the cause of Quranic Islam a great favour, I thank you for your bigotry, ignorance, blindness, intolerance, name calling and insults, which clearly illustrate how far away you and your like are, from Allah’s Guiding Light.
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Khafi has not defined his brand of islam. does he worship God like muslim religionist, or does he really follow the straight path, as described in the koran.
what are his thoughts on Haj and fasting in ramadan? -
Sputjam,
My Islam is defined by my behaviour and my manners, I have made enough posts here on IM for you to be able to define it for yourself. As far as I am concerned it is simply a matter between me and My God how I put into practice my belief. It is no concern to others, as their practices are of no concern to me. The most important thing is that I do not force others to follow a certain way as they also have no right to force me. Allah is our Judge, it is not for me to decide who believes in him or who doesn’t.
As to Haj and Fasting;
I believe that fasting is asked of us by Allah in Al Quran, but is not obligatory, we can infact if we don’t want to fast, simply feed the poor, which in actual fact we should be doing anyway. I fast during Ramadhan, but am still not sure that the mainstream Islamic calendar, is correct. Ultimately, I don’t imagine that it matters much to Allah when we fast.
The Haj? I think that it is again asked of us by Allah, but not in it’s present form, I believe that it was intended by Allah be a forum for All Mankind to gather and resolve issues and problems, however it seems to have turned into a circus of idol worship, and supersticious rituals.
How about you Sputjam? We all know what you think, you have made it abundantly clear in your (please don’t be offended) often repeated postings, But you seldom quote from Scriptural Sources to back up your views.
Peace
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Dear Sputjam,
May I ask you again?
europeans like laredion have long abandoned their religion. And the result is for all of us to see.
How should I read this? Forgive me for I am ignorant.
Greetz,
Lairedion -
@ Dawud Farquhar
The 3 most authentic hadithes state that Aisha was married at 6 years of age and deflowered 3 years later. NO True Muslim will accept any other interpretation. Trying to extend Aisha’s age to 14 to make Islam acceptable only makes yourself as guilty as ‘Muslims Against Shariah’ by deviating from the True Path.
See extracts below:
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated ‘Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).Abu Dawud Book 41, Number 4915:
Narrated Aisha:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.
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That’s good news. IM would be boring without your fairy tales from the Arabian desert.