Islam & Pork
Aug 11th, 2007, in News, by PatungPig and pork eating issues in the news in Sumatra.
In early June 2007 a housekeeper in Medan, called Risma, who comes from Palembang, reported her boss Andi (50) to the police for forcing her to eat some pork meat.
The case excited some passions in Medan, easily understandable for those who have noticed the visceral disgust and loathing that many Muslims have whenever pork appears in view, or when the subject of pork eating or even touching of pork comes up. Abdullah Syah of Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), for example, said anyone who forced a Muslim to eat pork was committing an insult to the whole Muslim community and he hoped that Andi would be given a suitably severe punishment. republika
Meanwhile, in early August 2007, further south in Risma’s home town of Palembang, South Sumatra province, an unrelated incident involving accusations that a producer of bakso, meatball soup, fills his meatballs with pork instead of beef, and then sells them to unsuspecting people.
A bowl of bakso.
An unnamed man reported Saparuddin bin Ramlan (48) to the police and claimed that Saparuddin was motivated by profit:
He makes more money that way.
Saparuddin bin Ramlan, who is from Kediri, East Java, supplies bakso to five mobile sellers and admits to having used pork in his product for two years, and buys eight kilograms of pork to last for three days production. Pork costs 20,000 rupiah per kilogram, he says, while beef costs 50,000.
Police arrested Saparuddin and two of his sellers on 10th August, and confiscated four kilograms of pork, and hundreds of bakso “balls”. okezone
123 Comments on “Islam & Pork”
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Haryani says:
“Forbidden to you for (food) are: dead meat, blood and the flesh of the swine and that which hath been invoked the name other than Allah.” {5:4}
http://www.webziner.com/islam/whypork.htm
It is not permissible for a Muslim to reject any ruling of Islam or to hesitate to follow it if the reason behind it is not clear. Rather he must accept the rulings on halaal and haraam when they are proven in the texts, whether he understands the reason behind that or not:
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=49688&ln=eng&txt=swine
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The issue is not really one of whether it is right or wrong to eat pork!
Nah, to each their own. If Muslims believe that the instruction from Allah is that pork is ‘haraam’ then don’t eat “the other white meat” (aka pork)! Comply with your obligations as a good Muslim…
The issue is what should be done with people that feed Muslims (or for that matter Jews)pork without telling them first that the meat is haraam or force feeding them the forbidden meat? This really is not just a pork and Islam issue but can be generalized to include the practice of any belief that prohibits or has taboos on certain food…
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dewaratugedeanom says:
Getitright said
In fact, the invention of Algebra, with its complex mathematical relatonship that enables us to slove many problems was by a Muslim scholar Muhammad bin MÅ«sÄ al-KhwÄrizmÄ«. Conforming to God’s order by praying and reading the Quran has not stopped his intelligence or accomplisments.
Once again Getitright gotitwrong.
You can say that muslims created algebra. Well if they were so clever, then why were they not clever enough to implicate it?
Could it be because they are making false claims?
The earliest extant work with any claim to be regarded as a treatise on algebra is by the Greek philosopher Diophantus of Alexandria (c. AD 250). This work is devoted mainly to problems in the solution of equations. For this purpose a suitable notation had to be invented, and Diophantus gave rules for generating powers of a number and for the multiplication and division of simple quantities. Of great significance is his statement of the laws governing the use of the minus sign, which did not, however, imply any idea of negative quantities.
Also important were developments in India in the first few centuries AD. During the 6th century the ideas of Diophantus were improved on by Hindu mathematicians, and many deficiencies in the Greek symbolism were remedied. Although the decimal system for whole numbers was apparently not known to the Indian astronomer Aryabhatta I (b. 476), it was used by his pupil Bhaskaracharya in 620, and by 670 the system had reached northern Mesopotamia, where the Nestorian bishop Severus Sebokht praised its Hindu inventors as discoverers of things more ingenious than those of the Greeks. Earlier, in the late 4th or early 5th century, the anonymous Hindu author of an astronomical handbook, the Surya Siddhanta, had tabulated the sine function (unknown in Greece) for every 33/4° of arc from 33/4° to 90°.
From the 13th century onwards, India was subject to invasions from the Arabs and other Islamised communities like the Turks and Afghans. Along with these invaders came chroniclers and critics like Al-Beruni who studied Indian society and polity. The Indian system of mathematics could not have escaped their attention. It was also the age of the Islamic Renaissance and the Arabs generally improved upon the arts and sciences that they imbibed from the land they overran during their great Jihad. The system of mathematics they observed in India was adapted by them and given the name ‘Al-Jabr’ meaning ‘the reunion of broken parts’. This name given by the Arabs indicates that they took it from an external source and amalgamated it with their concepts about mathematics.
Gotitright now, Getitright? 🙂 Algebraic knowledge doesn’t come from banging your head on the floor 5 times a day.
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Is there an algebraic science to eating pork 😀
Isn’t this related to a different thread? Interesting response all the same. I hated algebra at school but the history of it will probably come in handy next time I play trivial pursuit!
Thanks
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Cukurungan says:
You can say that muslims created algebra. Well if they were so clever, then why were they not clever enough to implicate it?
Hi hi hi At least the Javanese Muslim clever enough to use it in controlling other less clever human.
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Mach Jabber says:
@ dewaratugedeanom
How misinformative! Be skeptical, please. Surely that is but another pseudohistory conjuured up by the Jews. No race but the Arabs could come up with humanity’s greatest inventions of course.I demand you to apologize lest you be damned.
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BTW, I fail to see why this topic could incite any debate at all. Like I said, prohibition for pork is one thing, but tricking people to eat what they don’t want to is another.
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Murphy says:
@dewaratugedeanom
Wow. Genius. History like nobody ever heard before. You’re even smarter than those ignorants who write Encyclopaedia Brittanica (which I dare not quote because it wrongly said that the father of Algebra is either Muhammad ibn MÅ«sÄ al-khwÄrizmÄ« or Diophantus).
Can you also tell us who actually shot Kennedy? And which aliens actually build the pyramids? Come on. That should be piece of cake.
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dewaratugedeanom, you say that “From the 13th century onwards, India was subject to invasions from the Arabs and other Islamised communities like the Turks and Afghans”. But we need to go back to the Aryan and Dravidian civilization to see the affect they had on Indian history. The enlightened cultural traditions of Islam ensured that the mathematical works of previous cultures, such as the ancient Greeks, were preserved rather than destroyed. Euclid’s geometry is only known to us because it was preserved in Arabic by Muslim scholars.
Our modern number system is called ‘Hindu-Arabic’ in recognition of its origins in the number systems of India and Arabia. Our number system depends fundamentally on the number 0 (zero) which was invented by Arab mathematicians. A numeral is sometimes called a cipher (hence encipher, decipher) from the Arabic word sifr meaning zero.
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Geordie says:
From pork to mathematics in one thread, that’s quite impressive.
Mach Jabber’s got it right, misrepresentation’s always a bad thing; the guy said it was beef, it wasn’t ergo a bad thing.
Math is a good thing, though whomever designed, discovered or indeed invented any particular branch of it way back when is largely irrelevant and open to speculation. Indeed on the matter of zero, I’d heard it was sanskrit scholars who discovered/invented zero and it was a matter I was prepared to take on trust as: –
– the odds of me getting into a fight over its origin seemed remote.
– had said fight been in the offing I, with very little coercion, would have happily abandoned the position that zero originated in Inda.Zero, in and of itself is nothing (no pun intended) surely, isn’t it more important to what use zero is put?
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Murphy said
You’re even smarter than those ignorants who write Encyclopaedia Brittanica
You know, Murphy, that I always concede when confronted with your debating skills. So, I admit Encyclopaedia Britannica is written by ignorants.
I see you are already back from visiting your mother in jail.
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Does it matter anyway? So what if the Arabs invented algebra, so what if they didn’t? You people trying to relate their scientific advancements with their beliefs? 😕
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lucia says:
i think that Aluang guy (grandpa? judging from the pic) has been making sarcastic jokes all along. Comments too ridiculously funny.
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Why Muslim have to bother with a technology discovery, God give us abundant oil and mineral that’s it can be used to buy the technology we need, it is the same like we are riding a horses but we have to feed the horse.
that comment alone is enough to send you back to the cave in kalimantan wilderness with orangutan. if you have any basic education, you’d know that the so called ‘abundant oil and minerals’ are not sustainable, and technology has been evolving since cavemen invented a wheel, to give human beings a better life while utilizing limited natural resources (such as your precious oil and minerals).
saying that you’d buy technology using natural resources just reflects your ignorance. what actually happens in this world, take note because you won’t get this precious lesson for free anymore, is international companies buying natural resources cheaply, processing them using technology, and selling the products back to the idiots (like you) at much higher price. they could do that because technology adds value and there are idiots (like you) who’d rather trade unsustainable resources with imported products because of their laziness.
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dragonwall, you have a valid point”¦ However, in proprtion to the diseases and sickness related to to eating the flesh of the swine, other edible meats of the animals pales in insignificance to the problems that are caused by eating pork. Mad cow (or BSE) and Bird Flu etc. are NOT naturally occuring diseases as they are a result of human interaction/intervention and are ‘bred’ into the dangerous viral strains that they can mutate to become.
As pointed out previously, the swine is quite different to the cow or chickens etc. in it it’s biological makeup and the causes and affects of consuming it’s flesh. No one is condoning your practise or appetite for pork because you are responsible for your own actions, it is simply a matter of putting the facts in perspective without the emotions ruling over our intellect.
Have a good day.
i’ve been eating pork since forever and last time i had my regular check up, i’m as healthy as anyone could imagine. oh i’m also highly educated, have successful career and happy relationship with family, friends and my dear soulmate. no problem at all.
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vita says:
NAZI, not Muslim, did the holocaust
Japanese on WW II ,not Muslim , did the colonialism, killed and raped, people in most Asian country
Military Junta, not Muslim, what did they do through the monk and Buddhist?It is not the religion, but the human
Don’t judges any other people faith -
Vita…
How right you are!
It was Indonesians who rounded up and slaughtered other Indonesians allegedly connected to the PKI in 1965 and 1966.
It was Indonesians that invaded little old East Timor and effected a brutal campaign of integration that ultimately failed but cost many hundreds of thousands of lives (including Indonesian lives) in the process.
It was Indonesians that waged a war against the Achenese for many, many decades to suppress a separatist movement.
It is Indonesia that continues to wage a dirty little war in West Papua in an attempt to subjugate the people of that region.
Most certainly does not have anything to do with religion. Men (and women) can be evil without the need of religion.
I consciously chose Indonesian examples because they highlight that this kind of evil can be perpetrated without religion. However, it is worth noting that I could have chosen any country in the world as just about all of them have skeletons in their collective closets.
For evil to triumph only requires that good men and women do nothing!
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Majorca says:
I have a story passed by my one of my friends:
Before it removed from the list of ‘all you can eat’, pork was a very common diet in Middle East. One night, Muhammad was invited to a dinner party held by a local landlord to respect him. The main course was the ‘whole pig roasting grill’ stuffed with fruits and vegetables. Because it was not perfectly done, when the servant tried to slice the pig belly and served it to him, Muhammad saw something is moving within the meat. So he ordered, “Do not eat it”. And start from that moment his followers do not consume pork anymore.
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Endan again says:
Instead of lying through your teeth Majorca, you should be brave enough to provide evidence for your fabricated story. The fact is that the swine has been a forbidden meat from ancient times. Abraham (pbuh) to Moses (pbuh) to Jesus (pbuh) all forbade the eating of the flesh of swine. This is clearly referenced, therefore it always bemuses me when a ‘Christian’ asks about the reason for the prohibition on pork as Haryani pointed out above:
http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=12558&ln=eng&txt=swine
Apart from medical recommendations to avoid pork, there is a spiritual and a religious obligation which people who do not belong to a faith that forbids it will not understand. Therefore, those who favour pork, good for them. Just leave the rest of us who do no indulge in it!
American Sociological Review writes:
http://answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/appendix_to_que_2.htm
Furthermore: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?id=13070&hd=7&cate=0&t=rss
Now give it a rest will ya.
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Instead of lying through your teeth Majorca, you should be brave enough to provide evidence for your fabricated story.
I am not lying … it is just a story. You must read the sentence carefully. Please do not be to much sensitive =)
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Caroline says:
Hi dear Sylvester …
(my gosh.. your name sounds like a tweety bird)Every human race grew up with a religion which was adopted by their ancestors million years ago, and so far, I couldnt find a religion that have thought us bad in any ways.. NONE.
You could me christianity, catholic, buddhism or whatever it is…
Catholics have to ban condoms for life…
Bhuddism no beef for life…
Judaism wouldnt comsume pork as well… (interesting)
and so on… and whatever it is…this are all being thought rules as ‘a way of life’
when government and science wasn’t even exist…now..
coming into the website to someone’s religion and believes
in order to learn something new and being humble is a smart thing..but seeing you teasing, offending and insulting rather than being
open, really dissapoints me and made me feel disgusted by the way
your religion have brought you up…
could i say the islams in the website here have behave much better
than an immoral person like you whom simply do not understand the meaning of living harmoniously while respecting one another’s religions or believes…
well done dear islamics believers, your God have thought you the right thing which
is tolerance and patience..Guess this Sylvester is good to stay with the circus team.
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Klafooty says:
Prophets had better things to do instead of watching plates of believers.
It could amaze you and in opposition with moslim teaching for 14 centuries, Mahomet never
forbad pork meat, suggested neither.That would denies Mahomet got a biblical culture : “Allah gave us the Holly Bible with the true. The thora and the Evangiles”. (Koran C3 v2 or v3 since edition)
In this verset, Mahomet asks the moslims to study the Bible for understand the Coran
in the good way.The lecture of Evangiles teaches us Jesus was against the pharisees and the sadducees.
He reproached them to be submited to pagans (the romans) and to considarate that
the lecture of Bible was enough to get the graduation of good jewish.Jesus was used to speak with an abstract language composed with enigmas, paraboles
and comparisons to force reflection in his partisans brain because he thaught that practice
of religion must force to wake their spirit up.
Once he said to his partisans : “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees”.
(Bible.Matthew C16v6 and Mark C8 v15). So they thought they couldn’t eat bread any more.
In a litteral way, leaven is fermented pasta added to new one for getting it better and for helping it to blow away during the baking.In a figurative way, what makes Human better
and blow the soul up?Answer : knowledge or teaching.
Thus jesus asks his partisans to mistrust the pharisees and sadducees teaching
which would soild their soul and their heart.Previously pharisiees were chocked to see him or his partisans eating with dirty hands. So he answered them :
” To people able to understand : Every things swallowed by the mouth
can’t be soiled, only things emited by heart
and expressed by mouth is no pure”. ‘Bible Matthew C15v11. Mark C7v15) Then he turned back and his disciples asked him to explain this enigma. Irritated he answered :
“So you are silly too. You don’t understand anything swallowed just runs across the stomac (dust, food…) and goes away. But anything coming from heart (hate, lies, pride , vanity…)
are unclean.Priests use this episode to teach christians that forbidden foodstuffs are not logical.
Mark adds : “Thus Jesus declare that every sorts of foods are good”.
That means christians must keep in their mind that everything eadable are respectabale”.
Even to eat rats, worms or bugs couldn’t be ashaming.The bases of casher foodstuffs are made by Mose and his brother Aaron in the “Leviticus”
(chapter 11) and the deuteronomy ‘(chapter 14). That means in the third and the feefth
book of the Thora.
Thora or Torah = Jewish Law.To summarize, Jesus teaches there are two kinds of foods.
1.food for the body are foodstuffs.
2.food for the soul and the heart are teaching or education.In this case, why does Mahomet decide to take forbidden foodstuffs back?.
Answer : because he had understood the native reason.
Which reason?
Answer : to prevent believer to get friend with pagans.
Why?
Answer : if the believer could eat anything he want ,he would be free to accept any pagan invitations.
Going into the pagan’s home, he would be dived into private different points of vue,
with different targets, differents customs, different answers…Step by step, believer would get some doubts about his own religion ,and so, could leave it forever.But why does Mahomet declared illegal only three elements instead of jewish people having
much more forbidden foodstuffs? And why espacialy those one .” I do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat except that it be what has died of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of pork, for that surely is unclean, other than (the name of) Allah having been invoked on it. No sin for the one acting by constraint off meaning to be rebel or contravener. Allah is merciful” (Koran C6 v145 or V146 since edition)
What sort of “leaven” Mahomet put in this verset ?Because those three éléments are not foodstuffs. They are Bible teaching episodes.
Amazing , isn’t it ?Deciphering ;
Died it itself : Bible contents thousands of versets. Only one of them talks about “Died of itself” as Moses talking to jewish people asks :
“You shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God.”
This is why declaring illegal “Died of itself” episode Mahomet teaches :
“Don’t accept anything from jewishes . They think they are unique people able to believe in God”.Blood poured : There is an allusion of this element in the New Testament .” Jesus took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to the disciples, saying :”Drink it all of it. For this is my blood of the new testament, which is poured for many for the remission of sins”.
Declaring forbidden the “blood poured” , Mahomet teaches :
“Don’t share anything with the christians”.Flesh of pork…and other than the name of Allah has been invoked : in 70 after J.C., roman empire destroyed Jerusalem.This tragedy caused the end of Bible writing. It is mentioned in the Evangile of Luc (C21 v20 to v24);.
The romans , in their religion , when they won battles , praticed a ceremony invoking the name of Jupiter , and during it , a priest brook the head of pork symbolizing the overcamed enemy and it was eaten after. (Documentation in french language : “Dictionnaire de la Civilisation Romaine” by Jean-Claude Fredouille. Larousse editor. “”Dictionnaire de l’Atiquité” by Oxford University. Laffont éditor).Declaring illegal “Flesh of pork” episode , Mahomet teaches :
“Don’t melt with overcame people (jewishes and christians) et don’t submit to the pagans sharing their deash or being sat in the same table”.
This verset is clearly a hidden poetry expressing :
“Eat everything you want but don”t accept anything from jewishes and don’t share anything from christians. Don’t melt with them and don’t unclean yourself with pagans”.When the prophet shows the way , the disciple watches the finger.
“If they accuse you of falsehood , answer : Your Lord is full of mercy but from people in guilt never He will be turned away” (Koran C6 V147 or 148 since edition)
Is this letter clear enough ?
Yours ,
P.-S. : “Thus will be express the prophet words. I will talk to you using paraboles to reveal you hidden trues since the beginning of the world”. ‘Bible. Matthew C13 v34 et v35).
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Endan says:
Klafooty, please have the decency to quote the translations properly from the Qur’an. Your cut and paste job was very poor and it’s consequent explanation is wholly incomplete and rejected by Islamic teachings. You need to learn and understand the following:
“Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al-Maitah (the dead animals not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine [translation of Quran – 5:3]
“He has forbidden you only the maitah and blood, and the flesh of swine…” [translation of Quran – 2:173]
“Say (O Muhammad): ‘I find not in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be Maitah (the dead animals not slaughtered) or blood poured forth (by slaughtering or the like), or the flesh of swine (pork); for that surely, is impure…” [translation of Qur’an – 6:145]
Furthermore, please see:
http://islamic-world.net/sister/h1.htm http://www.islamicvoice.com/february.99/zakir.htm http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/12558/pork
http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/49688/pork
http://www.webziner.com/islam/whypork.htmProphets were sent with a complete and comprehensive code of law and way of life, this included all facets of life (inc. social). Dietery requirements and but a part of it. Do not exegerate nor blow the issue out of proportion.
Please do not insult the intelligence of the Muslim and non-Muslims readers on this page by mistranslating, misinforming, misconstruing, manipulating and lying upon the Prophet of Islam (n.b. Muhammad (pbuh) and NOT ‘Mahomet’).
Endan.
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Klafooty, please have the decency to quote the translations properly from the Qur’an. Your cut and paste job was very poor and it’s consequent explanation is wholly incomplete and rejected by Islamic teachings. You need to learn and understand the following:
“Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al-Maitah (the dead animals not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine.” [translation of Quran – 5:3]
“He has forbidden you only the maitah and blood, and the flesh of swine…” [translation of Quran – 2:173]
“Say (O Muhammad): ‘I find not in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be Maitah (the dead animals not slaughtered) or blood poured forth (by slaughtering or the like), or the flesh of swine (pork); for that surely, is impure…” [translation of Qur’an – 6:145]
Furthermore, please see: http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/12558/pork
Prophets were sent with a complete and comprehensive code of law and way of life, this included all facets of life (inc. social). Dietery requirements and but a part of it. Do not exegerate nor blow the issue out of proportion.
Please do not insult the intelligence of the Muslim and non-Muslims readers on this page by mistranslating, misinforming, misconstruing, manipulating and lying upon the Prophet of Islam (n.b. Muhammad (pbuh) and NOT ‘Mahomet’).
Endan
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Yadi says:
Leviticus 11:7
7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.
Hmmmmmmm
Deuteronomy 14:8
8 The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses. -
Mathias Wenda says:
Almost all of the animal kingdom, ranging from mollusca to mamalia is actually quite “dirty”. They Have some bacterias or parasites in some form or another living inside them.. So, just single out pork is unclean is totally out of facts… Perhaps need to learn more about biology n food science… Moesleams need to think (deep thinking), rather than only accept what the holy koran and kiyais told you on the friday prayer… Dont let them braiwashed you… Besides in japan where people eat pork, they have the most longest life span.. where in moslem countries?? die at young ages.. because of war, circumcision (yes, circumcision contributes mortality rate as well as), malnoutrition, n etc…
The bottom line is use your head… every doctrine n rules are created by MEN… Dont let anyone brainwash you !!!! GEE, no wonder this country is so f*ck up….
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
@ Mathias Wenda
The bottom line is use your head… every doctrine n rules are created by MEN… Dont let anyone brainwash you !!!! GEE, no wonder this country is so f*ck up….
The only thing that is f*ck up is your brain. We all know the Allah warned us about pork, yet you choose to ignore Him.
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diego says:
When will the kiyais issue a fatwa telling “eating a pig equals to eating a jew”? I mean, it’s logical, right? They hate the jews so much, and their koran says jews = pigs, but too bad they are unable to kill (enough) jews, so why don’t they just eat pig and fantasize that they’re eating a jew? Ha ha ha.
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Diego
I like to research many religions but I don’t think any religion would tell you to hate another person or equal them to pigs, and if so can you please show me where I would find such information.
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Regardless of the taboo, to give people meats they don’t want without them knowing does deserve a punishment.